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Abortion

Started by @realAzhyaAryola, May 22, 2019, 02:25:10 PM

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Wazzzup

Quote from: "caskur"
Yesterday I had the extreme misfortune to see a Doctor Phil topic about a 3 year old that spent his life a prisoner under the stairs in a hidden closet.



https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Woman-sentenced-to-28-years-for-starving-stepson-13455951.php">https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texa ... 455951.php">https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Woman-sentenced-to-28-years-for-starving-stepson-13455951.php



Woman sentenced to 28 years for starving stepson, locking him in closet at Spring home

By Nicole Hensley Updated 9:40 pm CST, Monday, December 10, 2018



A woman convicted of starving her diaper-clad stepson and forcing him to sleep in a closet at her Spring home has been sentenced to 28 years in prison, according to officials.



A jury last week found Tammi Bleimeyer guilty of causing injury to a child in the harrowing case that prompted a guilty plea from the boy's biological father,



Bradley Bleimeyer, in 2016. He was handed a 15-year prison sentence on the same charge.





________________________________



Even in that story it's discriminatory. The step mother got more than 10 years longer than the husband.  The biological father should have gotten 28 years to equal his wife as well. Just an appalling story that no doubt will give us all nightmares for a long time.



After 10 days of testimony, Harris County District Attorney's Office


First of all, what relevance is this to the topic of abortion?



Second of all the man pled guilty, while the woman went to trial and was convicted.  People who make deals  nearly always get lighter sentences than those who go to trial. That's the way the system works.  



Third of all, men in most cases get longer sentences than women for the same offense.  



http://www.law.umich.edu/newsandinfo/features/Pages/starr_gender_disparities.aspx">http://www.law.umich.edu/newsandinfo/fe ... ities.aspx">http://www.law.umich.edu/newsandinfo/features/Pages/starr_gender_disparities.aspx
Quote"men receive 63% longer sentences on average than women do," and "[w]omen are...twice as likely to avoid incarceration if convicted." This gender gap is about six times as large as the racial disparity that Prof. Starr found in another recent paper.


So much for your discrimination complaint. :001_rolleyes:   Much like your other opinions its you making ridiculous claims without any logical or factual basis.

caskur

Prof Starr is full of it...



I just showed you a case where the step mother was given over a decade over her partner in crime.



Why is she responsible when she hadn't adopted the child? It was the biological father's problem to make sure his son was fed, hugged and enjoyed a happy childhood..That diabolical sub-human father should have been given 100 lashes Malaysian style and had his sorry arse thrown in prison with his form stamped, "life in jail, never to be released."
"I think having land and not ruining it is the most beautiful art that anybody could ever want."
- Andy Warhol

caskur

Quote from: "Odinson"Men cause wars..





Women cheer and support the men...





But when the going gets rough, women have options... Play the victim card.





"It wuznt mi.. It wuz the otters"..







Women are like nikkers..


Yes, there is a modicum of truth in that... mainly because men are useless at war.
"I think having land and not ruining it is the most beautiful art that anybody could ever want."
- Andy Warhol

Wazzzup

Quote from: "caskur"
Quote from: "JOE"
Quote from: "Wazzzup"caskur said only women should be allowed to determine abortion laws.  So that got me wondering If there are certain issues that only women should decide, then maybe there some issues only men should decide. Hmm



Here's one--since the vast majority of people who die in wars are men.  I think from now on only men should have a say in things regarding whether to go to war etc.  Women should have no say whatsoever on matters of war.



Another-- men pay more in taxes than women.  So when it comes to how much the government spends and what it spends it on, only men should have a say in these things. Women should have no say whatsoever on matters of government spending.



Maybe there's a few more I can think of, but that should do for now to illustrate the point.


Well I agree with caskur on one thing.



A lot of the fault for this overpopulation problem is with men who can't control themselves & have a hard time keeping their dick in their pants.



The trouble I have with much of this anti abortion rhetoric is that it puts all the blame on the woman because they are the most visible & the most convenient target.


Exactly.



In fact, back in the 1950s, New Zealand jailed unwed mothers.

Well that's certainly relevant now. :001_rolleyes:

realgrimm

https://66.media.tumblr.com/559a856ef2f94b021bad0ed423298874/tumblr_ps3lk9bog51ris16so1_400.gif">

Anonymous

People oppose abortion because it is factually the direct killing of a human being. It removes our fundamental right to life, it is barbaric, degrading and anti woman.



 I am not my mothers property.



 So much misinfo.



 You people who act like anti abortion advocacy is some attack on women, or womens rights seem to forget much of the opposition you are talking about are women. It was MEN, 9 republican men, who decided Roe. Roe, a homeless teenager being exploited for that very purpose.



We can discuss how first wave feminism, the real feminism that actually got shit done, were opposed to abortion on the basis that is it the "greatest exploitation of women"  and that abortion is "oppression redistributed" and how the shed blood of children is not currency for our liberation if youd like. I know it makes fake, "third wavers" uncomfortable.



 When you consider the facts, of which i have handy....80 percent of post abortive women poled said they would not have aborted had they received support. 64 percent reported pressure, coercion and even force. Countless more....myself included, suffered post abortive trauma. An aftermath these great warriors of womens rights flat our denied and silenced for years. No more.



 It comes down to this, the unborn human being is a living human being....we oppose the legalized killing of human beings. The more abortion advocates pretend that this tiny human on the chopping block doesnt exist and make it JUST about the woman, the more they demonstrate how dishonest they are. Casey Anthony killed her born child to make her life easier, she didnt seem broken up about it....does that mean we should have the "choice" to kill our kids? Because some womens lives look better afterwards? Whether or not brutal killing of the weaker should be legal should not and does not rest on ancedotes on how the stronger feel about it.



 If you wish to use abortion to advocate for women, i have a question for you.



 How many of us who were left in shattered fucking pieces, how many poor women exploited, how many victims of force are supposed to take one for your "womens rights" team?  If you advocacy for women completely ignores the big picture, its not advocacy.



 All so you dont have pay some extra taxes, or donate, or be bothered with socioeconomic ills?  Abortion is a lazy, brutal, dark age "solution" to crisis. It does harm, whether you admit the facts or not.  All the issues it was supposed to solve have only increased. Turns out when you treat human life as disposable garbage, that entitled mentality bleeds into everything else.



 Illegal abortion is heavily associated with lower rates of unwanted pregnancy, lower maternal mortality. Its high

time to either abandon the rhetoric and look at the facts, or start sewing your handmaids tale hat.



 If i dont have human rights, i dont have womens rights. My daughters are not just "my choice" they are valuable individual human beings.



 Also, if you REALLY care about rape survivors, you should spend some time hearing THEIR voice on this. Rape survivors almost never chose to abort, and many that do did so because of family force or social pressure.  Studies have shown that women pregnant from rape have better long term outcomes by letting the child live. That they recognize the child as theirs, not the rapists, and see the child as the innocent other victim. I have seen so many posts from these women since AL talking about how degrading abortion advocates are constantly using them as an argument, degrading their child, undermining their struggles and pain.  Abortion doesnt unrape a woman, doesnt cure a difficult situation, it is a trauma on its own and most of these women do not see an additional act of violence as helpful.  Abortion advocates love to dig and cherry pick and use extreme cases to use here. Like that 11 year old, who doesnt even WANT an abortion. You guys only seem to get fired up if someone is denied an abortion...but not ever over the multiple times someone is forced.



 I have seen pro abortion advocates lash out at survivors, threatened to rape peoples daughters....its just disgusting how rape is used in the context of abortion.



 There is a pro life speaker Jen Christi who is a survivor of rape who kept her son, she represents thousands of other survivors. She gets violent rape porn sent to her regularly.



">




 There have been several court cases PP and abortion providers have been involved in for failure to report rape, releasing minor victims back to their abusers, and enabling the trafficking of minors and women.



">




 For anyone who wants to pretend this video is some "pro life propaganda and somehow edited...there are very public court docs i am willing to provide.



 Saying "Well, rape victims should have the right to chose" and shaking off your hands as if you've just been helpful is not reality, isnt enough, and disregards some serious fucking problems.  Abortion after rape isnt helping the victim. Its helping society and other people not have to be uncomfortable or do any of the real work to help and support these women.



 Pro life movement has millions of women, post abortive women, women who were pregnant from rape, women who were conceived in rape. Christians, pagans, secular humanists and atheists.  We have thousands of outreaches, programs and resources that help so many women in various crisis.



 Its about equal human rights for all humans and making real progress in solving and aiding in social problems that lead to such brutality.



 Euphemisms, propaganda isnt enough anymore.  If you are pro abortion, start addressing the issues with facts and data.



 One last thing, anyone who says men shouldnt have a say is ignorant. Men decided Roe, which is the first problem with that thinking. Also, until women can get pregnant without a man, and when little boys are no longer slaughtered in abortion....then you can say that. Its just an emotionally manipulative way to try to silence men who OPPOSE abortion. I saw way too many asshole pro abortion women applauding that man in Canada who round house kicked a female pro life advocate. Cuck Norris is encouraged to kick women who defend life, so shut the fuck up saying men cant have a say. I never see any pro abortionists say that about men who agree with them. So stupid. You want to men to take responsibility when YOU want them to....it doesnt work that way.



">




When you are so pro woman, youll kick that bitch in the face for wimmenz rights!! And get applauded by the "no uterus no opinion" crowd!! Hey!



">




Abortion advocates are not the good guys.

Anonymous

Welcome back Dove.

Anonymous

Quote from: "@realAzhyaAryola"I do not consider an embryo a child. You can argue all you want until you are blue in the face. Nothing will change my mind.


 Okay well, the FACT is a human in the embryonic stage of human development is a human being.  Plenty of people believe things that are scientific falsehoods, like the earth being flat, or vaccines causing autism.



 Your philosophical or religious beliefs have no place being legislated. Moreso when they involve the life and death of other human beings.



 Infants and toddlers are not children either.

Anonymous

Quote from: "caskur"
Quote from: "Tipsy"
Quote from: "caskur"
Quote from: "Tipsy"
Quote from: "Tipsy"If I don't want my unborn child, isn't forcing me into a legally and financially binding situation with another human for 18 years in essence slavery?



I also believe inundating society with mothers forced into poverty with their fatherless children that they do not want want is going to be extremely detrimental on society as a whole. Think about the negative impact this will have on everything from taxes to crime.




Women and children will be murdered because men will not want pay maintenance. That's already been happening.


My biggest issue with all of this is that only the women are being targeted in the abortion ban.  There is no mention of the father anywhere.


Its violence against women... or more aptly, a FORM of violence against women.






 Millions of women will rightly say abortion is violence against women. Because it factually is. It is the brutal killing of unborn humans, many little women.



 Offering abortion as a solution to a problem is violence.



 Enabling a society in which we can be used for sex and sent to kill our own offspring is violence. Feeling the need to kill out offspring to make it in a mans world is violence.



 Stop pretending women are helped by abortion and abortion opposition is just men trying to control us. The nature of our bodies is not slavery and not something to be seen as burdens.



 And for the mentality that says not being able to legally kill our children in utero is a form of slavery....lol are you fucking serious?



 So im not legally allowed to kill my born children. Am i forced to be a mother because of this?



 Take some personal responsibility. Regardless of whatever low view of women you have to have to even have this sentiment....women are not these stupid, weak victims of their biology being held hostage by fetal humans.



 We are able to double BC, get sterilized, not have sex, use adoption.



 Suggesting our liberation comes at the cost of killing our unborn children is violence and exploitation of women.



 Are we gonna pretend the millions of women like me just dont exist?  Because thats not working for you.  



 We can look at the many ways abortion is actually real violence.

Anonymous

"Fertilization (2 Weeks Post-LMP)



* Fertilization normally takes place within one day of intercourse but can occur up to six days later.[35] [36]



* At fertilization, the genetic composition of humans is formed.[37] This genetic information determines gender, eye color, hair color, and facial features. It also influences characteristics such as intelligence and personality.[38]



* The medical textbook The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology states that "fertilization" creates "a new combination of chromosomes that is different from that in the cells of either of the parents," and this "is the beginning of a new human being."[39]



* The four defining characteristics of life are present at fertilization:[40]



growth[41]

reproduction[42]

metabolism[43]

response to stimuli[44] [45]"



https://www.justfacts.com/abortion.asp">https://www.justfacts.com/abortion.asp





Development of the embryo begins at Stage 1 when a sperm fertilizes an oocyte and together they form a zygote."

[England, Marjorie A. Life Before Birth. 2nd ed. England: Mosby-Wolfe, 1996, p.31]





"Human development begins after the union of male and female gametes or germ cells during a process known as fertilization (conception).

"Fertilization is a sequence of events that begins with the contact of a sperm (spermatozoon) with a secondary oocyte (ovum) and ends with the fusion of their pronuclei (the haploid nuclei of the sperm and ovum) and the mingling of their chromosomes to form a new cell. This fertilized ovum, known as a zygote, is a large diploid cell that is the beginning, or primordium, of a human being."

[Moore, Keith L. Essentials of Human Embryology. Toronto: B.C. Decker Inc, 1988, p.2]





"Embryo: the developing organism from the time of fertilization until significant differentiation has occurred, when the organism becomes known as a fetus."

[Cloning Human Beings. Report and Recommendations of the National Bioethics Advisory Commission. Rockville, MD: GPO, 1997, Appendix-2.]





"Embryo: An organism in the earliest stage of development; in a man, from the time of conception to the end of the second month in the uterus."

[Dox, Ida G. et al. The Harper Collins Illustrated Medical Dictionary. New York: Harper Perennial, 1993, p. 146]





"Embryo: The early developing fertilized egg that is growing into another individual of the species. In man the term 'embryo' is usually restricted to the period of development from fertilization until the end of the eighth week of pregnancy."

[Walters, William and Singer, Peter (eds.). Test-Tube Babies. Melbourne: Oxford University Press, 1982, p. 160]





"The development of a human being begins with fertilization, a process by which two highly specialized cells, the spermatozoon from the male and the oocyte from the female, unite to give rise to a new organism, the zygote."

[Langman, Jan. Medical Embryology. 3rd edition. Baltimore: Williams and Wilkins, 1975, p. 3]





"Embryo: The developing individual between the union of the germ cells and the completion of the organs which characterize its body when it becomes a separate organism.... At the moment the sperm cell of the human male meets the ovum of the female and the union results in a fertilized ovum (zygote), a new life has begun.... The term embryo covers the several stages of early development from conception to the ninth or tenth week of life."

[Considine, Douglas (ed.). Van Nostrand's Scientific Encyclopedia. 5th edition. New York: Van Nostrand Reinhold Company, 1976, p. 943]





"I would say that among most scientists, the word 'embryo' includes the time from after fertilization..."

[Dr. John Eppig, Senior Staff Scientist, Jackson Laboratory (Bar Harbor, Maine) and Member of the NIH Human Embryo Research Panel -- Panel Transcript, February 2, 1994, p. 31]

Anonymous

"The development of a human begins with fertilization, a process by which the spermatozoon from the male and the oocyte from the female unite to give rise to a new organism, the zygote."

[Sadler, T.W. Langman's Medical Embryology. 7th edition. Baltimore: Williams & Wilkins 1995, p. 3]





"The question came up of what is an embryo, when does an embryo exist, when does it occur. I think, as you know, that in development, life is a continuum.... But I think one of the useful definitions that has come out, especially from Germany, has been the stage at which these two nuclei [from sperm and egg] come together and the membranes between the two break down."

[Jonathan Van Blerkom of University of Colorado, expert witness on human embryology before the NIH Human Embryo Research Panel -- Panel Transcript, February 2, 1994, p. 63]





"Zygote. This cell, formed by the union of an ovum and a sperm (Gr. zyg tos, yoked together), represents the beginning of a human being. The common expression 'fertilized ovum' refers to the zygote."

[Moore, Keith L. and Persaud, T.V.N. Before We Are Born: Essentials of Embryology and Birth Defects. 4th edition. Philadelphia: W.B. Saunders Company, 1993, p. 1]





"The chromosomes of the oocyte and sperm are...respectively enclosed within female and male pronuclei. These pronuclei fuse with each other to produce the single, diploid, 2N nucleus of the fertilized zygote. This moment of zygote formation may be taken as the beginning or zero time point of embryonic development."

[Larsen, William J. Human Embryology. 2nd edition. New York: Churchill Livingstone, 1997, p. 17]





"Although life is a continuous process, fertilization is a critical landmark because, under ordinary circumstances, a new, genetically distinct human organism is thereby formed.... The combination of 23 chromosomes present in each pronucleus results in 46 chromosomes in the zygote. Thus the diploid number is restored and the embryonic genome is formed. The embryo now exists as a genetic unity."

[O'Rahilly, Ronan and M�ller, Fabiola. Human Embryology & Teratology. 2nd edition. New York: Wiley-Liss, 1996, pp. 8, 29. This textbook lists "pre-embryo" among "discarded and replaced terms" in modern embryology, describing it as "ill-defined and inaccurate" (p. 12}]





"Almost all higher animals start their lives from a single cell, the fertilized ovum (zygote)... The time of fertilization represents the starting point in the life history, or ontogeny, of the individual."

[Carlson, Bruce M. Patten's Foundations of Embryology. 6th edition. New York: McGraw-Hill, 1996, p. 3]





"[A]nimal biologists use the term embryo to describe the single cell stage, the two-cell stage, and all subsequent stages up until a time when recognizable humanlike limbs and facial features begin to appear between six to eight weeks after fertilization....

"[A] number of specialists working in the field of human reproduction have suggested that we stop using the word embryo to describe the developing entity that exists for the first two weeks after fertilization. In its place, they proposed the term pre-embryo....

"I'll let you in on a secret. The term pre-embryo has been embraced wholeheartedly by IVF practitioners for reasons that are political, not scientific. The new term is used to provide the illusion that there is something profoundly different between what we nonmedical biologists still call a six-day-old embryo and what we and everyone else call a sixteen-day-old embryo.

"The term pre-embryo is useful in the political arena -- where decisions are made about whether to allow early embryo (now called pre-embryo) experimentation -- as well as in the confines of a doctor's office, where it can be used to allay moral concerns that might be expressed by IVF patients. 'Don't worry,' a doctor might say, 'it's only pre-embryos that we're manipulating or freezing. They won't turn into real human embryos until after we've put them back into your body.'"

[Silver, Lee M. Remaking Eden: Cloning and Beyond in a Brave New World. New York: Avon Books, 1997, p. 39]



Biologically speaking, fertilization (or conception) is the beginning of human development.1 Fertilization normally occurs within several hours of ovulation2 (some authors report up to 24 hours3) when a man's sperm, or spermatozoon, combines with a woman's egg, or secondary oocyte, inside a woman's uterine tube (usually in the outer third of the uterine tube called the ampulla).4



Fertilization begins with the spermatozoon contacting the cells surrounding the oocyte and ends with the mixing of the 23 male and 23 female chromosomes.5 [More about fertilization] The result is a single-cell embryo called a zygote,6 meaning "yoked or joined together,"7 and it is the first cell of the human body.



The zygote, like the oocyte, is encased by its protective covering, the zona pellucida, [More about the zona] 8 and contains 46 unique chromosomes with the entire genetic blueprint of a new individual. Chromosomes contain tightly packed, tightly coiled molecules called DNA.9 [More about DNA] Amazingly, DNA contains all the instructions needed for this single-cell embryo to develop into an adult.



https://www.ehd.org/dev_article_unit1.php">https://www.ehd.org/dev_article_unit1.php



ABSTRACT: The predominance of human biological research confirms that human life begins at conception—fertilization.  At fertilization, the human being emerges as a whole, genetically distinct, individuated zygotic living human organism, a member of the species Homo sapiens, needing only the proper environment in order to grow and develop. The difference between the individual in its adult stage and in its zygotic stage is one of form, not nature. This statement focuses on the scientific evidence of when an individual human life begins.



https://www.acpeds.org/the-college-speaks/position-statements/life-issues/when-human-life-begins">https://www.acpeds.org/the-college-spea ... ife-begins">https://www.acpeds.org/the-college-speaks/position-statements/life-issues/when-human-life-begins



Definition: fertilization is the union of the male (sperm) and female (oocyte) gametes to form a zygote and marks the beginning of pregnancy. Embryonic life begins with fertilization. Fertilization process requires about 24 hours



https://discovery.lifemapsc.com/library/review-of-medical-embryology/chapter-12-fertilization">https://discovery.lifemapsc.com/library ... tilization">https://discovery.lifemapsc.com/library/review-of-medical-embryology/chapter-12-fertilization



 A video response  to the ridiculously ignorant abortion video Bill Nye presented



">

Anonymous

Abortionists admit they kill human beings.



They [the women] are never allowed to look at the ultrasound because we knew that if they so much as heard the heart beat, they wouldn't want to have an abortion. –Dr. Randall, former abortionist



Even now I feel a little peculiar about it, because as a physician I was trained to conserve life, and here I am destroying it. -Dr. Benjamin Kalish, abortionist



You have to become a bit schizophrenic. In one room, you encourage the patient that the slight irregularity in the fetal heart is not important, that she is going to have a fine, healthy baby. Then, in the next room you assure another woman, on whom you just did a saline abortion, that it is a good thing that the heartbeat is already irregular... she has nothing to worry about, she will NOT have a live baby... All of a sudden one noticed that at the time of the saline infusion there was a lot of activity in the uterus. That's not fluid currents. That's obviously the fetus being distressed by swallowing the concentrated salt solution and kicking violently and that's to all intents and purposes, the death trauma... somebody has to do it, and unfortunately we are the executioners in this instance[.] -Dr. Szenes, abortionist



Telling those women their fetuses feel pain is heaping torment upon torment. These women have real pain. They did not come to this decision easily. Creating another barrier for them to get the medical care they need is really unfair. –Abortionist Dave Turok



This is why I hate overuse of forceps – things tear. There are only two kinds of doctors who have never perforated a uterus, those that lie and those who don't do abortions. –Anonymous Abortionist



I got to where I couldn't stand to look at the little bodies anymore. -Dr. Beverly McMillan, former abortionist



I think in many ways I've been lucky to have been part of this. If I hadn't gotten involved, I would have gone through life probably being perfectly satisfied to go to the medical society parties and it would have been very, very dull. I would have been bored silly. -Dr. Jane Hodgson, late abortionist





Sorrow, quite apart from the sense of shame, is exhibited in some way by virtually every woman for whom I performed an abortion, and that's 20,000 as of 1995. The sorrow is revealed by the fact that most women cry at some point during the experience... The grieving process may last from several days to several years... Grief is sometimes delayed... The grief may lie sublimated and dormant for years. –Dr. Susan Poppema, abortionist



If I see a case...after twenty weeks, where it frankly is a child to me, I really agonize over it because the potential is so imminently there...On the other hand, I have another position, which I think is superior in the hierarchy of questions, and that is "who owns this child?" It's got to be the mother. -Dr. James MacMahon, abortionist



We know that it's killing, but the state permits killing under certain circumstances. -Dr. Neville Sender, abortionist

@realAzhyaAryola

There is no information posted here that will ever change my mind. I only care what I do with my body and what my offsprings do with their body. You are responsible for yours and I do not care what you do. In the same breath, I do not expect you to care about what I do. No one is judging me because I am not judging anyone because everyone is responsible for the ills in their lives. I am not a child wanting to be educated. I am set in my ways and you can post hundreds of materials I still won't change my mind. Carry on.
@realAzhyaAryola



[size=80]Sometimes, my comments have a touch of humor, often tongue-in-cheek, so don\'t take it so seriously.[/size]

Anonymous

#163
Quote from: "@realAzhyaAryola"There is no information posted here that will ever change my mind. I only care what I do with my body and what my offsprings do with their body. You are responsible for yours and I do not care what you do. In the same breath, I do not expect you to care about what I do. No one is judging me because I am not judging anyone because everyone is responsible for the ills in their lives. I am not a child wanting to be educated. I am set in my ways and you can post hundreds of materials I still won't change my mind. Carry on.


 As i stated, you are free to live in ignorance but your anti science beliefs shouldnt be legislated.



 And women have a right to full informed consent whether you think they do or not.



 You dont have to change your mind. When it becomes banned you can join the chorus of shrieking, uneducated dark agers who want to pretend their feelings and beliefs trump facts and evidence.



  People believe fucked up false hoods everyday. What matters are actual facts. Thats what matters in medicine and law.



 Not your philsosphy.



 You dont get a green light to kill a human being because you dont feel like they are humans. Bottom line.



 Defend your position with facts. Or gtfo of the discussion.



 I have no respect for anyone who refuses to be educated and clings to barbaric practices that hurt people. These people shouldnt have a seat at the table. Its cowardly to ignore the reality of what you support.

Trump’s Niece

Dovey!! Yay !!  ac_dance
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