Sweden staying open amid the coronavirus pandemic

[Anonymous]

Every single Western country has bungled this from the get go. Of course their public health officials have given them bad information.

what should the West be doing? Don't just put down ... Suggest solutions ... what are the secrets?

Watch what Western countries have done and don't do it. They did do some things right, but they did them too late. We allowed flights from Iran until the second week of March.



Here's what the Iron Chink would do if I was empress.



-Targeted lockdowns of vulnerable populations.



-Stores, schools, churches, and factories would be allowed to remain open, but temperature checks would be required and people who have a fever would be reported to a quarantine. Have a provincial call in number for those who have a fever. No exceptions.



-A digital tracking system for those who are infected and those in quarantine. It has been super successful in wealthy East Asian countries. Fuck privacy concerns.



-Require the use of masks in public.



-Fast track approval of treatments for symptoms and get those treatments out to hospitals, paharmacies, and walk -in clinics.



The premier of this province can't even say when his lockdown will end. This is a terrible approach with no end in sight.

The one in bold is critical. Western countries have not utilized technology as much as they should and they are paying the price for it.

East Asian countries have pursued a high tech response and has proven superior to the low tech lockdown solution that Western countries have pursued.

[Anonymous]

Anyone remember the Ebola crisis of a few years back? How an asymptomatic strain of the virus took hold and effectively innoculated people against the more virulent strain?





What do you think that locking everyone in their homes is going to do for the chances of that happening here?

[Anonymous]

Anyone remember the Ebola crisis of a few years back? How an asymptomatic strain of the virus took hold and effectively innoculated people against the more virulent strain?





What do you think that locking everyone in their homes is going to do for the chances of that happening here?

I didn't know that about the Ebola virus.

[Anonymous]

Anyone remember the Ebola crisis of a few years back? How an asymptomatic strain of the virus took hold and effectively innoculated people against the more virulent strain?





What do you think that locking everyone in their homes is going to do for the chances of that happening here?

Interesting.

[Anonymous]

*Nods*





And it stands to reason when you think about it. Any organism's evolution is going to follow natural selection. This applies to viruses. A virus which is limited in transmission by its hosts dropping dead before they've had a chance to pass the infection on to a new host is not going to survive as readily as a milder form which allows the host to transfer it to a wider pool. A completely asymptomatic variety from a viral perspective is the best outcome for both host and virus... until of course the virus finds itself getting fought off by the immune systems of hosts which have already been exposed to it, at which point it either evolves or dies out completely.

[Anonymous]

This is what they're trying to prevent now by locking us all up in our homes...





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[Anonymous]

But ya, this is not good.



I mean, I moved more recently to small town, with the plan on running my gravel truck.  No connections, nothing.  Normally this would start to be the busy time of year for construction related, but I'm not so sure now with what I see happening now.



My backup plan was to just take whatever easy shit job I had to, should I not be able to run my truck.  That backup plan has now sort of evaporated also, due to virus.



If one is like me, with no marketable skills or specialized training, the world can be a scary place.  I don't function well in a classroom setting, since ADHD and whatever other acronyms I probably suffer from prevents me from obtaining any meaningful forms of higher learning...



The good old days were much easier for people like me, where decent jobs didn't even require a high school diploma...



Now those few decent government jobs with benefits remaining all go to women and minorities anyhow...  White Male Privilege I guess!  

[Anonymous]

*Nods*





And it stands to reason when you think about it. Any organism's evolution is going to follow natural selection. This applies to viruses. A virus which is limited in transmission by its hosts dropping dead before they've had a chance to pass the infection on to a new host is not going to survive as readily as a milder form which allows the host to transfer it to a wider pool. A completely asymptomatic variety from a viral perspective is the best outcome for both host and virus... until of course the virus finds itself getting fought off by the immune systems of hosts which have already been exposed to it, at which point it either evolves or dies out completely.

I hope we get a vaccine using the antibodies of people's who have immunity to it.

[caskur]

That is a lot more sensible than what the rest of the Western world is doing. East Asian countries have shut down their economies forcing a depression. We should isolate vulnerable groups like seniors. Those types of measures are sustainable. Shutting down our economies is not.

While seniors die, so do your average younger person but they also get so sick, they clog hospitals putting front liners in the virus path. Would you like being in the path of the virus day in, day out watching people suffer and die? Even the ones who do survive will have permanent lung conditions.



The economy is nothing NOTHING compared to not containing this virus.



Swedes are dopey hapless tools if they haven't adopted the rest of the worlds strict rules... They are just going to make the rest of us stay in lockdown LONGER.

Staying away from hospitals would be part of the isolation measures..



Shen is right, total isolation instead of targeted isolation isn't sustainable.

We're doing it but that is because we had a surplus and can afford to.



so far we have only 4 deaths in my state and a WA person died somewhere else and is being included in an Eastern States count.



One person in my state in quarantine was escaping quarantine to visit his girlfriend was caught and is now in jail. We are jailing people who break the rules.

[caskur]

That is a lot more sensible than what the rest of the Western world is doing. East Asian countries have shut down their economies forcing a depression. We should isolate vulnerable groups like seniors. Those types of measures are sustainable. Shutting down our economies is not.

While seniors die, so do your average younger person but they also get so sick, they clog hospitals putting front liners in the virus path. Would you like being in the path of the virus day in, day out watching people suffer and die? Even the ones who do survive will have permanent lung conditions.



The economy is nothing NOTHING compared to not containing this virus.



Swedes are dopey hapless tools if they haven't adopted the rest of the worlds strict rules... They are just going to make the rest of us stay in lockdown LONGER.

Staying away from hospitals would be part of the isolation measures..



Shen is right, total isolation instead of targeted isolation isn't sustainable.

And Singapore is having a second wave so is quickly acting upon it.



Singapore, Praised For Its Initial Coronavirus Response, Closes Schools And Offices To Prevent Second Wave Of Infections.



https://www.forbes.com/sites/isabeltogoh/2020/04/03/singapore-praised-for-its-initial-coronavirus-response-closes-schools-and-offices-to-prevent-second-wave-of-infections/#17b03f5073f0">https://www.forbes.com/sites/isabeltogo ... b03f5073f0">https://www.forbes.com/sites/isabeltogoh/2020/04/03/singapore-praised-for-its-initial-coronavirus-response-closes-schools-and-offices-to-prevent-second-wave-of-infections/#17b03f5073f0

[caskur]

Our ABC doctors have said that while the "official" number of infected is a 1,000,000 (more now) the actual number of cases and dead people is 10 times that amount

[caskur]

Every single Western country has bungled this from the get go. Of course their public health officials have given them bad information.

what should the West be doing? Don't just put down ... Suggest solutions ... what are the secrets?

Watch what Western countries have done and don't do it. They did do some things right, but they did them too late. We allowed flights from Iran until the second week of March.



Here's what the Iron Chink would do if I was empress.



-Targeted lockdowns of vulnerable populations.



-Stores, schools, churches, and factories would be allowed to remain open, but temperature checks would be required and people who have a fever would be reported to a quarantine. Have a provincial call in number for those who have a fever. No exceptions.



-A digital tracking system for those who are infected and those in quarantine. It has been super successful in wealthy East Asian countries. Fuck privacy concerns.



-Require the use of masks in public.



-Fast track approval of treatments for symptoms and get those treatments out to hospitals, paharmacies, and walk -in clinics.



The premier of this province can't even say when his lockdown will end. This is a terrible approach with no end in sight.

It depends where we all live and what the state of people's economy is but this is going to go for as long as they do not have a vaccine.



Your plan would work in small population but not the huge ones like the USA...



And mainland China has lied about the number of deaths and infected. The virus hasn't stopped in east Asian countries and it is still bubbling away.

[Anonymous]

*Nods*





And it stands to reason when you think about it. Any organism's evolution is going to follow natural selection. This applies to viruses. A virus which is limited in transmission by its hosts dropping dead before they've had a chance to pass the infection on to a new host is not going to survive as readily as a milder form which allows the host to transfer it to a wider pool. A completely asymptomatic variety from a viral perspective is the best outcome for both host and virus... until of course the virus finds itself getting fought off by the immune systems of hosts which have already been exposed to it, at which point it either evolves or dies out completely.

I hope we get a vaccine using the antibodies of people's who have immunity to it.

Either way it is a better outcome than what we are facing. Mel's graphic at the top of this page is somewhat disingenuous, a pie in the sky pretense that the actions currently being undertaken will have that result and the only real truths it holds is that this pandemic will have a beginning, a middle and an end, along with the pandemic being lengthened by practicing isolationism.



What it doesn't show (and what we are slowly learning now) is that the flattening of the curve could drag this thing out for way longer than initial assurances told us it would. And while I personally recognise the sense in attempting to save lives by not overburdening the healthcare system, the truth is with the totals spiraling upwards in spite of increasing demands our freedom of movement be circumscribed with more and more authoritarian manner (not being allowed to sunbathe outdoors no matter how far you are from the people around you is a good example), it seems to me that this "flattening of the curve" is more likely to result in an even higher body count that if we had just let the bug rip through our population unmolested instead. The two week shutdown is set to last for two months last I heard, some rumour it will be more like two years. Are we really expected to live like frightened rats in our holes?



I don't know about you, but I think I much rather preferred it when I could freely associate with others. And in retrospect, I think it would have been preferable to take the 1 in 50 chance of that option ending with my being carted off in a bodybag before a vaccine, cure or asymptomatic variant of the disease presented itself. This isn't life or liberty, it's an excuse to keep us under thumb while our masters divvy up the spoils. Pray tell, where did that shipment of N-95 masks get to? More importantly, what will the absence of those masks do to Mel's healthcare system capacity line? Will we be expected to contend with even more ridiculous "flattening the curve" measures or will our leaders just say "fuck it, you're on your own" at some point and keep us locked in our homes when the pandemic starts closing our clinics and grocers... and worse?



I know one thing, if some jihadi-inspired madman managed an airburst over Europe or North America at this point, we'd be fucked.

[cc]

Sweden is in the process emergency style of a doing a 180 and hunkering down

[Anonymous]

The medical community has been consistently wrong about this..



Epidemiologists in several Western countries said the spread was contained as late as the last week in February..



The CDC, WHO and United Stated Surgeon General Dr Jerome Adams told us a little more than a week ago that masks could cause more harm than good, and now we know it's not true.