The Horrendous Death rate of Covid Patients on Ventilators Sparks Many Doctors to Prefer Less Invasive Methods

[cc]

The Horrendous Death rate of Covid Patients on Ventilators Sparks Doctors to Question Use

https://time.com/5820556/ventilators-covid-19/">https://time.com/5820556/ventilators-covid-19/



In Short (my words for a brief overview as article is quite long) > They were designed for sever pneumonia were lungs are damaged and cannot do the job - BUT early Covid, while making breathing hard is not a situation of damage and ventilators may be damaging them.

More Doctors daily are supporting the concept that less-invasive respiratory supports like breathing masks and nasal tubes save many more lives .. especially when applied early enough  + placing patient on side or stomach helps lungs themselves to be even more effective and do the job themselves with along with application of oxygen

(Survival rate on ventilators is considerably less than for pneumonia patients > for whom  they were actually designed for)





New York City emergency-medicine physician Dr. Cameron Kyle-Sidell sparked controversy when, two weeks ago, he posted a YouTube video claiming that ventilators may be harming COVID-19 patients more than they're helping.



"We are operating under a medical paradigm that is untrue," Kyle-Sidell warned. "I believe we are treating the wrong disease, and I fear that this misguided treatment will lead to a tremendous amount of harm to a great number of people in a very short time."



Weeks later, claims from Kyle-Sidell and like-minded doctors continue to spark impassioned debate within the medical community, with some doctors moving away from the use of ventilators and others defending the current standard of care. What's clear, though, is COVID-19 patients on ventilators aren't doing as well as doctors would hope—and health care experts are scrambling to fix it.



He says some doctors are intubating early because they fear that less-intensive forms of ventilation, like high-flow nasal oxygen, can aerosolize a virus, putting health care workers at risk of getting sick. "This is more theoretical fear than a real fear," Hill says, since there's not strong evidence that COVID-19 spreads this way.





So Cuomo, STOP whining on TV @ T and demanding more & more ventilators that are killing patients - and get your Docs to get patients oxygen a  far cheaper, far less invasive and more effective way

[Gaon]

If it is proven that ventilators caused death, than there will be lawsuits. It is America we are talking about.

[cc]

Don't think so - desperate efforts against a brand new entity  .. and especially since they were the accepted go-to for breathing problems  would not make for a legal case - whereas continuing to use a ICU proven fail would make a solid legal case



Further > Then there's the issue of how to treat patients who do end up on ventilators. Tufts' Hill agrees that COVID-19 patients do not behave exactly like they have ARDS, a type of respiratory distress that occurs when fluid builds up in the lungs' air sacs. The lungs usually get stiff when a patient has ARDS, requiring high-pressure ventilation to support them. But that's not happening with many COVID-19 patients, Hill says, leading some doctors to fear that the extra pressure is actually damaging the lungs.



Even stranger, some COVID-19 patients who show very low blood oxygen levels still appear to be breathing fairly comfortably, raising even more questions about how much support they need.



Many docs and hospitals are now going to oxygen via mask of nose

[Anonymous]

So, hospitals could be responsible for thousands of deaths.

[cc]

Inadvertently, yes. However, this is new = a learning process  .. and learning more daily .. main thing is once they find a better way, use it!!

- We are where we are



If I was in that position I would insist on oxygen (initially by mask)  and refuse vents



It'a all kind of close to me - In early February, when I was in for pneumonia (very severe .. thought I might be dying) .. the week before this all started in Canada

I found oxygen did wonders  ... my blood oxygen came up quickly and all was well ... home in 5 days .. and that was with severe pneumonia and thus included lung damage  

So I recently experienced what oxygen alone can do to a very severely lung-ill person

Actually, I used it by nose after an hour or so on mask ... not near as efficient as by mask, but blood oxygen count came up fast and I felt human again in short order



I was fortunate to have it just before Covid hit here - Had it happened a week or so later, I'm not sure what I would have faced in hospital .. they might have initially assumed I had the virus and treated me accordingly  .. and diagnosis (thus treatment)  in Emerg would have been a lot slower as covid patients came in

[Anonymous]

The Horrendous Death rate of Covid Patients on Ventilators Sparks Doctors to Question Use

https://time.com/5820556/ventilators-covid-19/">https://time.com/5820556/ventilators-covid-19/



In Short (my words for a brief overview as article is quite long) > They were designed for sever pneumonia were lungs are damaged and cannot do the job - BUT early Covid, while making breathing hard is not a situation of damage and ventilators may be damaging them.

More Doctors daily are supporting the concept that less-invasive respiratory supports like breathing masks and nasal tubes save many more lives .. especially when applied early enough  + placing patient on side or stomach helps lungs themselves to be even more effective and do the job themselves with along with application of oxygen

(Survival rate on ventilators is considerably less than for pneumonia patients > for whom  they were actually designed for)





New York City emergency-medicine physician Dr. Cameron Kyle-Sidell sparked controversy when, two weeks ago, he posted a YouTube video claiming that ventilators may be harming COVID-19 patients more than they're helping.



"We are operating under a medical paradigm that is untrue," Kyle-Sidell warned. "I believe we are treating the wrong disease, and I fear that this misguided treatment will lead to a tremendous amount of harm to a great number of people in a very short time."



Weeks later, claims from Kyle-Sidell and like-minded doctors continue to spark impassioned debate within the medical community, with some doctors moving away from the use of ventilators and others defending the current standard of care. What's clear, though, is COVID-19 patients on ventilators aren't doing as well as doctors would hope—and health care experts are scrambling to fix it.



He says some doctors are intubating early because they fear that less-intensive forms of ventilation, like high-flow nasal oxygen, can aerosolize a virus, putting health care workers at risk of getting sick. "This is more theoretical fear than a real fear," Hill says, since there's not strong evidence that COVID-19 spreads this way.





So Cuomo, STOP whining on TV @ T and demanding more & more ventilators that are killing patients - and get your Docs to get patients oxygen a  far cheaper, far less invasive and more effective way

Jesus H.  :2r4ml1j_th:

[Anonymous]

Inadvertently, yes. However, this is new = a learning process  .. and learning more daily .. main thing is once they find a better way, use it!!

- We are where we are



If I was in that position I would insist on oxygen (initially by mask)  and refuse vents



It'a all kind of close to me - In early February, when I was in for pneumonia (very severe .. thought I might be dying) .. the week before this all started in Canada

I found oxygen did wonders  ... my blood oxygen came up quickly and all was well ... home in 5 days .. and that was with severe pneumonia and thus included lung damage  

So I recently experienced what oxygen alone can do to a very severely lung-ill person

Actually, I used it by nose after an hour or so on mask ... not near as efficient as by mask, but blood oxygen count came up fast and I felt human again in short order



I was fortunate to have it just before Covid hit here - Had it happened a week or so later, I'm not sure what I would have faced in hospital .. they might have initially assumed I had the virus and treated me accordingly  .. and diagnosis (thus treatment)  in Emerg would have been a lot slower as covid patients came in

Sorry to hear that kid. My older sister had pneumonia about twelve years ago. She says when she catches a cold now it feels worse than it did pre pneumonia.

[cc]

I'm OK now .. strength pretty much back to normal  .. don't feel any effects now



But, having very recently had pneumonia  makes me extra cautious of the virus  .. as lungs always weaken for quite a while with it .. medical people say it take 3 + months minimum to get back to normal



Close to paranoid  would be more accurate and honest - I protect myself to the hilt from others

[Anonymous]

I'm OK now .. strength pretty much back to normal  .. don't feel any effects now



But, having just had pneumonia  makes me extra cautious of the virus  .. as lungs always weaken for quite a while with it



Close to paranoid  would be more accurate and honest - I protect myself to the hilt from others

I don't frickin blame ya. You should isolate on my farm. I have plenty of barrel wash.

[cc]

ac_biggrin

[Anonymous]

Don't do it cc, he'll make you shine his shitters.

[Anonymous]

I'm OK now .. strength pretty much back to normal  .. don't feel any effects now



But, having very recently had pneumonia  makes me extra cautious of the virus  .. as lungs always weaken for quite a while with it .. medical people say it take 3 + months minimum to get back to normal



Close to paranoid  would be more accurate and honest - I protect myself to the hilt from others

You cannot be too careful.

[cc]

Don't do it cc, he'll make you shine his shitters.

He'd live to regret that



On second thot, he might not .................. live that is   ac_biggrin

[cc]

I'm OK now .. strength pretty much back to normal  .. don't feel any effects now



But, having very recently had pneumonia  makes me extra cautious of the virus  .. as lungs always weaken for quite a while with it .. medical people say it take 3 + months minimum to get back to normal



Close to paranoid  would be more accurate and honest - I protect myself to the hilt from others

You cannot be too careful.

Agree. I certainly make no apologies for being extra cautious. Problem for those who have not had it is "time" ... it could be a long time before things are safe

Actually, I guess they have not proved immunity for those who have had it  ... I'm sure you will be watching for proof in that area

[Anonymous]

I'm OK now .. strength pretty much back to normal  .. don't feel any effects now



But, having very recently had pneumonia  makes me extra cautious of the virus  .. as lungs always weaken for quite a while with it .. medical people say it take 3 + months minimum to get back to normal



Close to paranoid  would be more accurate and honest - I protect myself to the hilt from others

You cannot be too careful.

Agree. I certainly make no apologies for being extra cautious. Problem for those who have not had it is "time" ... it could be a long time before things are safe

Actually, I guess they have not proved immunity for those who have had it  ... I'm sure you will be watching for proof in that area

Nor should you. You are still recovering from one respiratory illness. You do not want another one.