Where did it all go wrong?

[Anonymous]

Employers are not opposed to higher wages.

I do not agree.



Employers do everything they can to keep their employees wages as low as possible to maximise profit. This is the essence of running a business.



Keep costs down.



Employees are treated exactly the same way as plant and equipment. Invest as little as possible for maximum output.



Employees trade off a certain degree of security in their job for the LOWEST possible wage.



In Australia, some companies are making record profits, but staff wages have not risen. The whole contract of employment in capital systems is based on the worker subordinated to the corporation. The playing field is uneven. Some claim that employees have the right to move their labour to a higher paying business, but in practice this is nowhere near as easy as it's made out to be.



The recent situation in the US which has 4 million workers just walking away from their job is being mirrored elsewhere. People are become weary of high demand for little reward.

No offense, but what you posted could not be any further from the truth.



The lifeblood of any enterprise is a repeat customer. The future of any enterprise is a new customer. Customers don't care about maximizing profit. They care about the product, the service, the price, and availability.  Company employees who want the same thing for the business's customers will be the best paid in their industry. They will be more productive as their employer will trust them with more responsibility.



Companies with low responsibility levels for employees are like the state owned enterprises in the former Soviet Union-the employees preternd to work and the state pretends to pay them.



Productivity has been declining for years in Canada, even as large companies record record profits. But, those profits all too often were not earned by their employees in Canada. Or even affected by their sales in this country.



Here in Canada too the Great Resignation is happening. It's primarily in low wage sectors with people to people contact like retail and food service. This is going on even as wages are rising(still lower than inflation). I cannot explain it. I would need to know more about the demographics of the people leaving work. I would be surprised if it was workers over the age of forty.

[Zetsu]

Employers are not opposed to higher wages.

I do not agree.



Employers do everything they can to keep their employees wages as low as possible to maximise profit. This is the essence of running a business.



Keep costs down.



Employees are treated exactly the same way as plant and equipment. Invest as little as possible for maximum output.



Employees trade off a certain degree of security in their job for the LOWEST possible wage.



In Australia, some companies are making record profits, but staff wages have not risen. The whole contract of employment in capital systems is based on the worker subordinated to the corporation. The playing field is uneven. Some claim that employees have the right to move their labour to a higher paying business, but in practice this is nowhere near as easy as it's made out to be.



The recent situation in the US which has 4 million workers just walking away from their job is being mirrored elsewhere. People are become weary of high demand for little reward.

What you say has some truth to it, but this only applies to unskilled labour or entry level jobs since I believe minimum wage jobs play the biggest role to inflation due to the lack of productivity per individual.  China minimum wage increased over the last 12 years and we've seen a very noticeable drop in QC but increase in price of products sold to the West.  Since the jump from $10.50 to $14 per hour here in Toronto fast food price has increased by at around 30% in less than a year.

[Bricktop]

No offense

None would ever be taken!!! Discussions are best when people disagree. However, a large part of the population equate disagreement with being offended. There are none like those in this forum!!



With respect, may I opine that whilst you dispute what I said, you didn't actually address my main point which is that employers have a vested interest in keeping wages low. As I claimed, many businesses (not all, it's true) are making record profits but staff wages are stagnant.



Anecdotally, but I agree with some of the other views expressed here in that corporations in cahoots with governments are deliberately maintaining this status quo. Corporations make more money, and governments claim they are creating jobs (one of western capitalism's greatest lies).



There is a disparity that is clearly visible, and cannot be condoned or maintained.

[Bricktop]

What you say has some truth to it, but this only applies to unskilled labour or entry level jobs

Agreed.



Employees with a clear connection to actual profit are generally better rewarded.



But is this right? Because a person is less skilled, or is lower on the company pyramid, should they be excluded from benefitting from higher profits?

[Anonymous]

Employers are not opposed to higher wages.

I do not agree.



Employers do everything they can to keep their employees wages as low as possible to maximise profit. This is the essence of running a business.



Keep costs down.



Employees are treated exactly the same way as plant and equipment. Invest as little as possible for maximum output.



Employees trade off a certain degree of security in their job for the LOWEST possible wage.



In Australia, some companies are making record profits, but staff wages have not risen. The whole contract of employment in capital systems is based on the worker subordinated to the corporation. The playing field is uneven. Some claim that employees have the right to move their labour to a higher paying business, but in practice this is nowhere near as easy as it's made out to be.



The recent situation in the US which has 4 million workers just walking away from their job is being mirrored elsewhere. People are become weary of high demand for little reward.

What you say has some truth to it, but this only applies to unskilled labour or entry level jobs since I believe minimum wage jobs play the biggest role to inflation due to the lack of productivity per individual.  China minimum wage increased over the last 12 years and we've seen a very noticeable drop in QC but increase in price of products sold to the West.  Since the jump from $10.50 to $14 per hour here in Toronto fast food price has increased by at around 30% in less than a year.

The key to businesses for owners and employees alike is productivity. It affects the bottom line for both those who write cheques and those that cash them.

[Anonymous]

No offense

With respect, may I opine that whilst you dispute what I said, you didn't actually address my main point which is that employers have a vested interest in keeping wages low.

I addressed it twice in two different posts. Employers have no issue with higher wages. It's low productivity that they take issue with. This is a problem in Canada that has only gotten worse under the Trudeau regime.



Many businesses operating in Canada are recording record profits. Banks in particular. However, just as many businesses profits are not tied to anything in Canada. Should employees in Canada receive higher compensation for profits they did not create? I'm sure their overseas colleagues would say no.

[Anonymous]

This is a good discussion going on between Brick and the Seoul brother and Zetsu. Myself, I have no problem with fast food workers making a low wage. They are entry level jobs for kids and part timers.

[Frood]

As a teenager, I had a very physical job in a sawmill stripping bark off logs with a draw knife.



It was piecework and paid a fair average total per hour with an average level of exertion.



So I'd pack a Thermos of coffee, a loaf of peanut butter and jam sandwiches (with cake sprinkles), 6 bananas, 10 litres of water, then make x5 the rate.... at least for the first 3-4 hours, then x3 -x4 for the following 3 hours, and finally....when my body was giving out.... x1-x2 for as long as I could endure it.



The incentive was clearly there. Work hard; be rewarded. It wasn't a union workplace.



Unfortunately, unionised workplaces these days despise such set ups and sabotage hard work.



If little tiny Tim and Bobo the window licking Circus chimp can't receive x3-x5 rates, NOBODY can.



And due to the artificially inflated costs to do business in the private sector (initiated by big governments protecting their big business associates), there aren't many options for non unionised workplaces to financially reward performers except in small token gestures.



I can drive here in regional Victoria, stop at a Cafe/bakery and expect to pay upwards of 6-9 bucks for a coffee.... but if I stop at a small town's only 7/11, it's 2 bucks.



That sums it up.

[Zetsu]

What you say has some truth to it, but this only applies to unskilled labour or entry level jobs

Agreed.



Employees with a clear connection to actual profit are generally better rewarded.



But is this right? Because a person is less skilled, or is lower on the company pyramid, should they be excluded from benefitting from higher profits?

I don't deny when it comes to unskilled labour, we do hire people at market level prices, which is basically just slightly above minimum wage with bonus based on their performance.

But is this right? Because a person is less skilled, or is lower on the company pyramid, should they be excluded from benefitting from higher profits?

It might be hard to believe, but unskilled labour are quite overpaid for their work due to minimum wages, but at the same time they're good candidates for low tech industries, but now it's slowly being replaced by robotics.  



Truth to be told no one in the company is excluded from profits, low skilled worker's are guaranteed a fixed wage even if they are underproductive, or when the economy is going through a recession or get 2 month of pay after being fired in China.  If a bunch of unskilled labour live together by themselves, they'll be living in wooden shacks, but b/c of the white collar and blue collar professions, unskilled labour can live in modern house with electricity, plumbing, TV, etc, which is equivalent to having over 200 servants dating a few hundred years ago.  With so many options offered by the society these days, education, scholarship or student loans, job training, internet access that has access to the world's latest information of online or self education, food banks, welfare incase if people are going through a crisis in life, etc, there's really no excuse for the unskill to complain.

[Anonymous]

As a teenager, I had a very physical job in a sawmill stripping bark off logs with a draw knife.



It was piecework and paid a fair average total per hour with an average level of exertion.



So I'd pack a Thermos of coffee, a loaf of peanut butter and jam sandwiches (with cake sprinkles), 6 bananas, 10 litres of water, then make x5 the rate.... at least for the first 3-4 hours, then x3 -x4 for the following 3 hours, and finally....when my body was giving out.... x1-x2 for as long as I could endure it.



The incentive was clearly there. Work hard; be rewarded. It wasn't a union workplace.



Unfortunately, unionised workplaces these days despise such set ups and sabotage hard work.



If little tiny Tim and Bobo the window licking Circus chimp can't receive x3-x5 rates, NOBODY can.



And due to the artificially inflated costs to do business in the private sector (initiated by big governments protecting their big business associates), there aren't many options for non unionised workplaces to financially reward performers except in small token gestures.



I can drive here in regional Victoria, stop at a Cafe/bakery and expect to pay upwards of 6-9 bucks for a coffee.... but if I stop at a small town's only 7/11, it's 2 bucks.



That sums it up.

How you were paid is how I would pay employees if I was the owner and I was allowed.

[Anonymous]

The entire fast food industry model is being put to the test in North America because of rising wages. More automation will be used to fill productivity gaps.

[Frood]

As a teenager, I had a very physical job in a sawmill stripping bark off logs with a draw knife.



It was piecework and paid a fair average total per hour with an average level of exertion.



So I'd pack a Thermos of coffee, a loaf of peanut butter and jam sandwiches (with cake sprinkles), 6 bananas, 10 litres of water, then make x5 the rate.... at least for the first 3-4 hours, then x3 -x4 for the following 3 hours, and finally....when my body was giving out.... x1-x2 for as long as I could endure it.



The incentive was clearly there. Work hard; be rewarded. It wasn't a union workplace.



Unfortunately, unionised workplaces these days despise such set ups and sabotage hard work.



If little tiny Tim and Bobo the window licking Circus chimp can't receive x3-x5 rates, NOBODY can.



And due to the artificially inflated costs to do business in the private sector (initiated by big governments protecting their big business associates), there aren't many options for non unionised workplaces to financially reward performers except in small token gestures.



I can drive here in regional Victoria, stop at a Cafe/bakery and expect to pay upwards of 6-9 bucks for a coffee.... but if I stop at a small town's only 7/11, it's 2 bucks.



That sums it up.

How you were paid is how I would pay employees if I was the owner and I was allowed.

Me too...



The owners placed a lot of trust in my figures reporting as it was a work when you need or want to scenario and depending on bad weather, I was the only one there in blizzards and torrential rains...



So, I still think about those guys fondly 30 years later with the utmost respect.



One was a Southern Baptist homesteader and the other Amish.

[Frood]

The entire fast food industry model is being put to the test in North America because of rising wages. More automation will be used to fill productivity gaps.

With even more inferior Franken-ingredients...

[Bricktop]

How you were paid is how I would pay employees if I was the owner and I was allowed.

In the early stages of the industrial revolution, piecework was the most common form of salary. The advantages, as Freud describes, are obvious.



However, as automation began to overtake physical labour, piecework salaries were no longer viable in many workplaces.



This is particularly so in service industries and bureaucracies, where productivity is very much more difficult to prescribe and identify. Not impossible, but difficult. And of course, unionism reviles piecework.



This is one reason why I favour dismantling bureaucracies in favour of outsourcing to private enterprise. Not all, but most.

[Frood]

I'd like to see public schools defunded along with state subsidised broadcasters, medical services revert to a patient/doctor private arrangement, income taxes abolished or reduced to a fraction of what they are now, health bodies stripped of their ability to vet pharmaceutical products and procedures, property taxes and council rates abolished or reduced to a fraction, councils prevented from mandating most new building and landscaping codes...mandatory licences to fish, prospect, hunt, be armed, drive, climb ladders, check batteries in smoke detectors, et cetera be dissolved.



Award/Minimum Wage laws repealed... vice taxes dropped.



Most zoning rulings by manipulative greedy local and state governments removed.



To start with...