Fossil Fuels are a Hell of a Lot More Sustainable Than Wind and Solar

[Breakfall]

Unreliability, lower wind speeds, inefficient use of natural gas to back up wind and solar and storage are what makes wind and solar so expensive.



https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-true-cost-of-renewable-energy/

Over the past decade the National Grid has succeeded in virtually ending coal power in Britain. The proportion of our electricity generated by coal fell from 29.5 per cent in 2011 to just 2.1 per cent in 2021. Most of the coal power has been replaced by wind and solar (up from 5.2 per cent in 2011 to 24.6 per cent in 2021) and by 'thermal renewables' – the filthy business of burning wood pellets made from trees in North America – which is up from 3.6 per cent in 2011 to 12.9 per cent in 2021.



What the electricity industry has not managed to do is to wean us off gas. We are pretty much where we were a decade ago, with gas accounting for 39.9 per cent of generation in 2021 compared with 39.8 per cent in 2011. This matters not just because it has exposed consumers to high wholesale gas prices in recent months, but because the government's path to net zero involves eradicating all fossil fuels and ensuring a carbon-free electricity supply by 2035.



It costs three or four times more to store a unit of electricity than it does to generate it in the first place



Indeed, the price we are paying for gas-generated electricity is even higher than it need be at present because of the way we are now using it. We use gas-fuelled power to plug the gaps when intermittent wind and solar can't deliver the goods. Over the summer everyone from Boris Johnson to Extinction Rebellion was parroting the figure that wind power costs 'nine times' less than that of gas power. But this is a false comparison. The figure comes from an analysis by the pressure group Carbon Brief comparing the long-term, guaranteed, index-linked prices paid to renewable energy firms with the 'day ahead' prices which have to be paid to owners of gas power stations to fire them up for a few hours to make up a shortfall in supply. It is like comparing the cost of a season ticket on the train to the price of hailing an Uber in the rush hour on the day of a rail strike.



How many times this year have you heard advocates of green energy decrying the fact that consumers have been ripped off by our failure to shift to renewables even more quickly? Yet we really don't have an alternative to gas to make up for shortfalls in wind and solar. We could try to store renewable energy, but storage, in the form of batteries, say, or pumped-storage hydro-electric stations or some other emerging technology, is incredibly expensive. It costs around three or four times more to store a unit of electricity than it does to generate it in the first place.



If we are going to get anywhere near de-carbonising the electricity grid, we will have to invest in energy storage, at huge cost. At present we have the capacity to store less than an hour's worth of the country's electricity demand, yet in winter conditions can be both windless and overcast for days at a time. The grid was built to transport electricity generated in coal plants close to where it was consumed. Wind and solar farms tend to be distributed in more remote locations, by contrast, so the grid itself will have to be reconfigured, again at huge cost. We are also going to need a massive increase in overall generation capacity as road vehicles and central heating systems are forced to switch to electric power. A switch to renewable energy will be very far from cheap.



And at the moment, we are going in the wrong direction. Overall generation capacity available to the National Grid actually fell from 77.9 GW in 2019 to 76.6 GW in 2021. Moreover, wind and solar farms are not performing in the way which was hoped. Last year alone, the available generation capacity of wind power grew by 5.3 per cent and solar by 2.8 per cent. Yet the amount of electricity actually generated by wind, wave and solar plunged by 9.3 per cent, largely on account of low wind speeds. This is a problem which the wind industry has yet to grasp: there is a long-term declining trend in wind speeds over the UK – and indeed throughout most of the world. This is an aspect of climate change which gets little coverage, perhaps because it conflicts with the lazy and incorrect narrative, perpetuated by the former chairman of the Environment Agency among others, that Britain is facing more 'violent' weather.

OMG 

[DKG]

Unreliability, lower wind speeds, inefficient use of natural gas to back up wind and solar and storage are what makes wind and solar so expensive.



https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-true-cost-of-renewable-energy/

Over the past decade the National Grid has succeeded in virtually ending coal power in Britain. The proportion of our electricity generated by coal fell from 29.5 per cent in 2011 to just 2.1 per cent in 2021. Most of the coal power has been replaced by wind and solar (up from 5.2 per cent in 2011 to 24.6 per cent in 2021) and by 'thermal renewables' – the filthy business of burning wood pellets made from trees in North America – which is up from 3.6 per cent in 2011 to 12.9 per cent in 2021.



What the electricity industry has not managed to do is to wean us off gas. We are pretty much where we were a decade ago, with gas accounting for 39.9 per cent of generation in 2021 compared with 39.8 per cent in 2011. This matters not just because it has exposed consumers to high wholesale gas prices in recent months, but because the government's path to net zero involves eradicating all fossil fuels and ensuring a carbon-free electricity supply by 2035.



It costs three or four times more to store a unit of electricity than it does to generate it in the first place



Indeed, the price we are paying for gas-generated electricity is even higher than it need be at present because of the way we are now using it. We use gas-fuelled power to plug the gaps when intermittent wind and solar can't deliver the goods. Over the summer everyone from Boris Johnson to Extinction Rebellion was parroting the figure that wind power costs 'nine times' less than that of gas power. But this is a false comparison. The figure comes from an analysis by the pressure group Carbon Brief comparing the long-term, guaranteed, index-linked prices paid to renewable energy firms with the 'day ahead' prices which have to be paid to owners of gas power stations to fire them up for a few hours to make up a shortfall in supply. It is like comparing the cost of a season ticket on the train to the price of hailing an Uber in the rush hour on the day of a rail strike.



How many times this year have you heard advocates of green energy decrying the fact that consumers have been ripped off by our failure to shift to renewables even more quickly? Yet we really don't have an alternative to gas to make up for shortfalls in wind and solar. We could try to store renewable energy, but storage, in the form of batteries, say, or pumped-storage hydro-electric stations or some other emerging technology, is incredibly expensive. It costs around three or four times more to store a unit of electricity than it does to generate it in the first place.



If we are going to get anywhere near de-carbonising the electricity grid, we will have to invest in energy storage, at huge cost. At present we have the capacity to store less than an hour's worth of the country's electricity demand, yet in winter conditions can be both windless and overcast for days at a time. The grid was built to transport electricity generated in coal plants close to where it was consumed. Wind and solar farms tend to be distributed in more remote locations, by contrast, so the grid itself will have to be reconfigured, again at huge cost. We are also going to need a massive increase in overall generation capacity as road vehicles and central heating systems are forced to switch to electric power. A switch to renewable energy will be very far from cheap.



And at the moment, we are going in the wrong direction. Overall generation capacity available to the National Grid actually fell from 77.9 GW in 2019 to 76.6 GW in 2021. Moreover, wind and solar farms are not performing in the way which was hoped. Last year alone, the available generation capacity of wind power grew by 5.3 per cent and solar by 2.8 per cent. Yet the amount of electricity actually generated by wind, wave and solar plunged by 9.3 per cent, largely on account of low wind speeds. This is a problem which the wind industry has yet to grasp: there is a long-term declining trend in wind speeds over the UK – and indeed throughout most of the world. This is an aspect of climate change which gets little coverage, perhaps because it conflicts with the lazy and incorrect narrative, perpetuated by the former chairman of the Environment Agency among others, that Britain is facing more 'violent' weather.

Climate change, changing wind speeds is a new reason to admit wind energy is a deeply flawed idea. #walkawayfromwindandsolar

[Oerdin]

Use of wind and solar makes electricity on West coast less reliable and make blackouts more likely.



https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/us-west-faces-power-reliability-issues-growing-use-renewables-2022-11-11/

[Herman]

Use of wind and solar makes electricity on West coast less reliable and make blackouts more likely.



https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/us-west-faces-power-reliability-issues-growing-use-renewables-2022-11-11/

It's the same shit everywhere with wind and solar.

[Breakfall]

Use of wind and solar makes electricity on West coast less reliable and make blackouts more likely.



https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/us-west-faces-power-reliability-issues-growing-use-renewables-2022-11-11/

It's the same shit everywhere with wind and solar.

Give it up already dickhead!

[Breakfall]

You're full of shit Herman. Everyone knows that solar is a sustainable energy resource. It blows my mind that fuckheads like you push to disprove such a resource? Maybe if you had my science degree you wouldn't be such a fucking idiot. Yeah? Fuck off!

[Breakfall]

You're full of shit Herman. And you're fucking irresponsible! If I ever met up with you...I'll slap to to the ground.

[Herman]

You're full of shit @Herman. And you're fucking irresponsible! If I ever met up with you...I'll slap to to the ground.

:MG_216:

[Herman]

You're full of shit @Herman. Everyone knows that solar is a sustainable energy resource. It blows my mind that fuckheads like you push to disprove such a resource? Maybe if you had my science degree you wouldn't be such a fucking idiot. Yeah? Fuck off!

You don't know jack. It is the most environmentally destructive useless form of energy on the planet. Stopping drinking the Kool Aid and pull your head out of your arse. It uses more resources including land that are finite than real energy sources like fossils and nuclear. It's environmental footprint per kilowatt hour is a hell of a lot higher than real energy sources. It requires natural gas to back it up. It costs consumers more. It does not lower emissions.



I could go on if you like. I think will all go right over your head.

[Herman]

You're full of shit @Herman. Everyone knows that solar is a sustainable energy resource. It blows my mind that fuckheads like you push to disprove such a resource? Maybe if you had my science degree you wouldn't be such a fucking idiot. Yeah? Fuck off!

You don't know jack. It is the most environmentally destructive useless form of energy on the planet. Stopping drinking the Kool Aid and pull your head out of your arse. It uses more resources including land that are finite than real energy sources like fossils and nuclear. It's environmental footprint per kilowatt hour is a hell of a lot higher than real energy sources. It requires natural gas to back it up. It costs consumers more. It does not lower emissions.



I could go on if you like. I think will all go right over your head.

[Breakfall]

You're full of shit @Herman. Everyone knows that solar is a sustainable energy resource. It blows my mind that fuckheads like you push to disprove such a resource? Maybe if you had my science degree you wouldn't be such a fucking idiot. Yeah? Fuck off!

You don't know jack. It is the most environmentally destructive useless form of energy on the planet. Stopping drinking the Kool Aid and pull your head out of your arse. It uses more resources including land that are finite than real energy sources like fossils and nuclear. It's environmental footprint per kilowatt hour is a hell of a lot higher than real energy sources. It requires natural gas to back it up. It costs consumers more. It does not lower emissions.



I could go on if you like. I think will all go right over your head.

Hahahaa..I'm a fucking scientist you hillbilly. My degree took me fucking over six years to qualify. So fuck you you little insubordinate shit! It's about time you realise that I'm not your regular forum fucking gopher sunshine!

[Breakfall]

You don't know jack. It is the most environmentally destructive useless form of energy on the planet. Stopping drinking the Kool Aid and pull your head out of your arse. It uses more resources including land that are finite than real energy sources like fossils and nuclear. It's environmental footprint per kilowatt hour is a hell of a lot higher than real energy sources. It requires natural gas to back it up. It costs consumers more. It does not lower emissions.



I could go on if you like. I think will all go right over your head.

Hahahaa..I'm a fucking scientist you hillbilly. My degree took me fucking over six years for me to qualify the basics. So fuck you you little insubordinate shit! It's about time you realise that I'm not your regular forum fucking gopher sunshine!

[Oliver Clotheshoffe]

Everyone knows that solar is a sustainable energy resource.

Except when it's raining.

[Breakfall]

Everyone knows that solar is a sustainable energy resource.

Except when it's raining.

That's elementary. It blows my mind that I'm an Appliied Scientist and I have to deal with midlife idiots without qualification!

[Breakfall]

Go and spend six years of your life, both monetarily and physically and come speak some sense to me. You're a fucking idiot and you're brain—dead!