Edmonton Radio Station Asks If Rape Victims Partly Responsib

[Anonymous]

I like Anthony Furey, but I don't necessarily agree with him on this one.

What a strange approach to a public debate. There is a subset of today's activist movement that seems straight out of Orwell.



These are the adherents of the New Activism who believe that the most pressing issue of our time is the vaguely defined phenomenon "rape culture."



You can't object to their talking points. There is no room for dissent. Even if you simply speak about the issue without using the approved lingo, they'll try to shut you down.



The debate is settled. Even though most people didn't even know it was being had. And don't even really know what it is.



Two recent events remind us of this.



Last week, Edmonton radio station CHED did a story on a panel about "rape culture" and victims being blamed for their assaults.



Because of this they produced a poll question:



"It's very controversial, but do you think victims of sexual assaults share any blame for what happens? No, women should be able to dress, drink, and walk as they choose without fear of being blamed. Yes, if women drink too much, dress too little or walk in harm's way they put themselves at risk."



People erupted in outrage, many claiming this question itself just promoted "rape culture." This in turn prompted an apology on the part of the station manager.



Alberta Labour Minister Thomas Lukaszuk tweeted out: "If your poll is intentional and not a hacked account, I will encourage [the provincial government] to pull all advertising off of your station."



Huh. So a cabinet minister is threatening to redirect government money away from media outlets if they present topics not to his liking?!



As someone considering a run to replace Alison Redford, Lukaszuk better first take time to study what is and isn't the role of government.



Now all of this outrage would be more acceptable if the topic was one that was firmly closed. Radio shows don't generally do "Slavery! Good or bad?" panels.



It's a little hard to find a guest to argue the pro side these days. Such an anachronism would be deserving of derision.



But this is a conversation that, regardless of your opinion on it, is one that's being had in society.



Radio stations, TV shows and newspaper columns are the very places to debate it.



One would also think universities are the last bastion of open thought. Ha. Not at all. Just ask Janice Fiamengo.



For more than a year now, the Ottawa professor and former feminist has been speaking at universities on "rape culture" and how feminism has gone off the rails.



(Her writings are available online, as are some thorough pieces by Cathy Young on the subject.)



Fiamengo is almost always disrupted by activists who righteously believe that the well-mannered professor shouldn't even be allowed to speak.



The other week a questioner bizarrely asked why Fiamengo – before she even started! – should be speaking if those in attendance didn't agree with what she was going to say.



So that's what they're teaching in the hallowed halls of academe these days: She doesn't conform? Shut her down!



But hang on a second. What on earth, the uninitiated will ask, is this "rape culture" to begin with? Are incidents of rape drastically going up? Has the legal framework changed? What should we do?



All good and productive questions. Which brings us to the key point in all of this: This is very much a public conversation that needs to be had.



In other words, chats on Edmonton radio shows and lectures by soft-spoken profs are clearly fair game.

http://www.edmontonsun.com/2014/04/18/the-settled-science-of-rape-culture">http://www.edmontonsun.com/2014/04/18/t ... pe-culture">http://www.edmontonsun.com/2014/04/18/the-settled-science-of-rape-culture

[RW]

I agree that a discussion needs to be had - a frank one at that.



This thread has bothered me for a while now.  I questioned why I felt the need to address women in terms of personal responsibility for self security.  I guess being a woman, I can relate to the experiences of my own gender, and feel addressing them makes for a more productive approach.  



I realised I've had discussions about education, specifically dealing with males and their seeming lack of sexual responsibility and relationship knowledge.  Those discussions kept boiling down to family structures and lack of positive role modeling from males in their lives.  In their case, men need to step up and do their part in helping boys and young men make right decisions.  I think the same holds true for women.



As unfortunate as circumstances can be, and ghost, I've had my own experiences, I still believe we need to send girls and young women a message of truth.  The reality is, there are men out there that will take advantage of situations.  I'm sorry but I just can't get behind a message that views the world through the rose coloured glasses of "that shouldn't happen" because it does.

[Anonymous]

I agree that a discussion needs to be had - a frank one at that.



This thread has bothered me for a while now.  I questioned why I felt the need to address women in terms of personal responsibility for self security.  I guess being a woman, I can relate to the experiences of my own gender, and feel addressing them makes for a more productive approach.  



I realised I've had discussions about education, specifically dealing with males and their seeming lack of sexual responsibility and relationship knowledge.  Those discussions kept boiling down to family structures and lack of positive role modeling from males in their lives.  In their case, men need to step up and do their part in helping boys and young men make right decisions.  I think the same holds true for women.



As unfortunate as circumstances can be, and ghost, I've had my own experiences, I still believe we need to send girls and young women a message of truth.  The reality is, there are men out there that will take advantage of situations.  I'm sorry but I just can't get behind a message that views the world through the rose coloured glasses of "that shouldn't happen" because it does.

I'm sorry if I gave you the impression women should NOT be smart. It's our duty to be responsible and on guard. However, I do NOT want things like alcohol or walking home alone being mitigating circumstances when it comes to sentencing these creeps. They prey on the vulnerable and if not a drunk chick walking home from a bar then a teenaged girl walking from home school.



Throw the fucking book at the scum who do these things. However, in the mean time take a kung fu class and carry a taser. They are incredibly easy to obtain by the way.

[RW]

My POV has nothing to do with sentencing but rather prevention.  I don't see a woman's state of sobriety or clothing choices as an excuse, justification or defence for rape.  I don't think it's right that society applies these excuses for rapists either or paints rapists as victims. That to me is almost as vile as the act itself.

[Renee]

Percentages are not the issue.



Besides drunken party rape for lack of a better name happens more than you know. Most cases go unreported because of fear, stigma and embarrassment. No girl wants to be known as the drunk chick who gets gang raped at parties.

I was a drunk girl who got raped at a party.



I was 17 and a virgin. Was I being stupid? I was with friends who I thought I trusted. I didn't actually drink that much. I was with female friends, one of which was a designated driver.



Sometimes personal responsibility can only take someone so far. Yes, I've always been careful. Sadly, sometimes careful isn't enough.



I think what bothers me the most is that we constantly talk about women's personal responsibility. What about the male responsibility? Why is it that we teach girls to be careful, constantly point out what sort of things can happen to them if they dress bad, get drunk, etc..etc.. Where's the lessons being taught to the boys not to rape? Instead they get the whole 'boys will be boys' speech.

First let me say I'm very sorry for what happened to you. There is no excuse for how you were violated and I sincerely hope whoever was responsible for the act was punished accordingly.



I agree 100% with your premise regarding how males get a pass on this issue. It shouldn't be all on us but unfortunately this is the culture we live in and until that culture changes, women need to take the proper steps in keeping themselves safe. The other unfortunate part of this is that changing the culture is going to take an almost monumental effort. The "boys will be boys" mindset has been so pervasive for so long that it's an accepted reality in many social circles. As has been already stated, the pop culture of today objectifies and in many cases glorifies the poor treatment of women. Young males at an early age are exposed to the concept that treating women with violence or in an immoral and unacceptable manner is "cool" and an indication of manhood. We are routinely disrespectfully referred to as "bitches" and "hoes" and our worth as human beings is tied directly to our physical appearance and physical attributes. Until that way of thinking is squashed and exposed for the ignorant load of horseshit that it is, women/girls will continue to be victimized by men/boys who think that their bad behavior is acceptable.

[keeper]

My POV has nothing to do with sentencing but rather prevention.  I don't see a woman's state of sobriety or clothing choices as an excuse, justification or defence for rape.  I don't think it's right that society applies these excuses for rapists either or paints rapists as victims. That to me is almost as vile as the act itself.

I don't think your looking at this like a guy would RW, Let me explain what I think "the Sexy Clothing" theory is, or what your calling excuses.



If you put 2 women side by side facing you, Black out the faces, Dress girl number 1 in a low cut top, mini skirt so she looked somewhat sexy and than dressed girl number 2 in long sleeve shirt, pants , rubber boots. 99% of men would pick number 1 for looking "sexy"



Now like all you women are saying that you take percussions and not to walk home alone, not get drunk etc... well I think the clothing is just another percussion so that not to show the wrong impression, provoke the pigs to attack the innocent. Should you be able to dress how you like, FUCK YES. But?

im a guy, I know what I know.



Just sayin

[keeper]

Oh, And another thing, WTF is this Boys will be Boys shit. You have heard someone say that? Seriously?

[Anonymous]

My POV has nothing to do with sentencing but rather prevention.  I don't see a woman's state of sobriety or clothing choices as an excuse, justification or defence for rape.  I don't think it's right that society applies these excuses for rapists either or paints rapists as victims. That to me is almost as vile as the act itself.

Oh it's fucking vile and offensive, no question about that.

[Anonymous]

As has been already stated, the pop culture of today objectifies and in many cases glorifies the poor treatment of women. Young males at an early age are exposed to the concept that treating women with violence or in an immoral and unacceptable manner is "cool" and an indication of manhood. We are routinely disrespectfully referred to as "bitches" and "hoes" and our worth as human beings is tied directly to our physical appearance and physical attributes.

Hmmm, I'm thinking one musical genre in particular here.

[Anonymous]

Percentages are not the issue.



Besides drunken party rape for lack of a better name happens more than you know. Most cases go unreported because of fear, stigma and embarrassment. No girl wants to be known as the drunk chick who gets gang raped at parties.

I was a drunk girl who got raped at a party.



I was 17 and a virgin. Was I being stupid? I was with friends who I thought I trusted. I didn't actually drink that much. I was with female friends, one of which was a designated driver.



Sometimes personal responsibility can only take someone so far. Yes, I've always been careful. Sadly, sometimes careful isn't enough.



I think what bothers me the most is that we constantly talk about women's personal responsibility. What about the male responsibility? Why is it that we teach girls to be careful, constantly point out what sort of things can happen to them if they dress bad, get drunk, etc..etc.. Where's the lessons being taught to the boys not to rape? Instead they get the whole 'boys will be boys' speech.

First let me say I'm very sorry for what happened to you. There is no excuse for how you were violated and I sincerely hope whoever was responsible for the act was punished accordingly.



I agree 100% with your premise regarding how males get a pass on this issue. It shouldn't be all on us but unfortunately this is the culture we live in and until that culture changes, women need to take the proper steps in keeping themselves safe. The other unfortunate part of this is that changing the culture is going to take an almost monumental effort. The "boys will be boys" mindset has been so pervasive for so long that it's an accepted reality in many social circles. As has been already stated, the pop culture of today objectifies and in many cases glorifies the poor treatment of women. Young males at an early age are exposed to the concept that treating women with violence or in an immoral and unacceptable manner is "cool" and an indication of manhood. We are routinely disrespectfully referred to as "bitches" and "hoes" and our worth as human beings is tied directly to our physical appearance and physical attributes. Until that way of thinking is squashed and exposed for the ignorant load of horseshit that it is, women/girls will continue to be victimized by men/boys who think that their bad behavior is acceptable.

Do young men think their behaviour is acceptable?



Perhaps they know it is very wrong, but they are willing to risk getting caught and arrest?



Much like a thief or some other lawbreaker.

[ghost]

Oh, And another thing, WTF is this Boys will be Boys shit. You have heard someone say that? Seriously?

Boys will be boys is a classic example. Girls are taught that while growing up, believe it or not.



The most recent that comes to mind is the Stubbenville rape case from last year where the media sided with the boys, constantly pointing out they were football stars, good boys, got good grades...etc...etc...and attacked the victim for being drunk at a party.



http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/03/18/1732701/media-steubenville/">http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/03 ... ubenville/">http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/03/18/1732701/media-steubenville/



Here are a few more examples:



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2561108/Boys-boys-The-heartless-explanation-lawyer-asked-mother-rape-victim-aged-FIVE-happened-child.html">http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... child.html">http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2561108/Boys-boys-The-heartless-explanation-lawyer-asked-mother-rape-victim-aged-FIVE-happened-child.html



http://www.marshall.edu/wcenter/sexual-assault/rape-culture/">http://www.marshall.edu/wcenter/sexual- ... e-culture/">http://www.marshall.edu/wcenter/sexual-assault/rape-culture/

[Anonymous]

Oh, And another thing, WTF is this Boys will be Boys shit. You have heard someone say that? Seriously?

Boys will be boys is a classic example. Girls are taught that while growing up, believe it or not.



The most recent that comes to mind is the Stubbenville rape case from last year where the media sided with the boys, constantly pointing out they were football stars, good boys, got good grades...etc...etc...and attacked the victim for being drunk at a party. http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/03/18/1732701/media-steubenville/">http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/03 ... ubenville/">http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/03/18/1732701/media-steubenville/



Here are a few more examples:



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2561108/Boys-boys-The-heartless-explanation-lawyer-asked-mother-rape-victim-aged-FIVE-happened-child.html">http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... child.html">http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2561108/Boys-boys-The-heartless-explanation-lawyer-asked-mother-rape-victim-aged-FIVE-happened-child.html



http://www.marshall.edu/wcenter/sexual-assault/rape-culture/">http://www.marshall.edu/wcenter/sexual- ... e-culture/">http://www.marshall.edu/wcenter/sexual-assault/rape-culture/

What in the fuck do their grades or involvement in sports have to do with their guilt or innocence?



That really pisses me off!! :x

[keeper]

Oh, And another thing, WTF is this Boys will be Boys shit. You have heard someone say that? Seriously?

Boys will be boys is a classic example. Girls are taught that while growing up, believe it or not.



The most recent that comes to mind is the Stubbenville rape case from last year where the media sided with the boys, constantly pointing out they were football stars, good boys, got good grades...etc...etc...and attacked the victim for being drunk at a party.



http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/03/18/1732701/media-steubenville/">http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/03 ... ubenville/">http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/03/18/1732701/media-steubenville/



Here are a few more examples:



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2561108/Boys-boys-The-heartless-explanation-lawyer-asked-mother-rape-victim-aged-FIVE-happened-child.html">http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... child.html">http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2561108/Boys-boys-The-heartless-explanation-lawyer-asked-mother-rape-victim-aged-FIVE-happened-child.html



http://www.marshall.edu/wcenter/sexual-assault/rape-culture/">http://www.marshall.edu/wcenter/sexual- ... e-culture/">http://www.marshall.edu/wcenter/sexual-assault/rape-culture/

Is it just me or did the people here loose focus, SOMEONE was raped... I'm embarrassed to be male after reading this.



i dont even know what to say.

[RW]

Keeper, the thing that has been found in rape cases is that it has almost nothing to do with dress and a lot to do with opportunity.



Again ghost, no excuse and no sympathy for those who change the course of their lives because they've raped someone.  Those guys should have given more thought to their futures before they decided to have in consenting sex with someone.  However, I don't object to the point being made that they threw away their lives full of promise because they decided to rape a woman.  Let that be a lesson to the rest of the fuckers.

[ghost]

Keeper, the thing that has been found in rape cases is that it has almost nothing to do with dress and a lot to do with opportunity.



Again ghost, no excuse and no sympathy for those who change the course of their lives because they've raped someone.  Those guys should have given more thought to their futures before they decided to have in consenting sex with someone.  However, I don't object to the point being made that they threw away their lives full of promise because they decided to rape a woman.  Let that be a lesson to the rest of the fuckers.

I object to it. It paints the boys under a sympathetic picture. Makes people actually feel sorry for them for making such a terrible mistake. Oh, the poor boys. They had so much going for them. Who the fuck cares.



They keep constantly pointing out that the girl was drunk. She was drinking. She was passed out. Oh, the poor boys for being unable to resist temptation. The poor boys.