Perfect example of lefty intolerence......

[Obvious Li]

is reserved for marriage between one man and one woman."



I like to think I'm just as gay-friendly as the next downtown Toronto liberal esthete. But I have a hard time understanding how a single Christian law school — even one that makes unmarried people wait till they graduate before they commence having sex — is a threat to gay Canada. And it would be nice to think, however naïvely, that the spirit of "diversity," the doctrine that those same liberal elites always are anxious to apply to female, aboriginal, gay and multiculti university applicants, applies to believing Christians as well.



The other objectionable aspect of the campaign against TWU is that the school's critics completely ignore the experience of the United States, where various Christian law schools have long co-existed quite peaceably with a larger legal profession that is, like Canada's, admirably welcoming of gay lawyers.



As a former U.S. lawyer, I speak from experience on this point.



Eighteen years ago, when I was pursuing my legal education in the United States, I traveled to the University of Virginia for a large softball tournament that brought together teams from law schools across the country. Our first match was against a team from Liberty University, a school based just down Highway 29 in Lynchburg. My team took the field first. And while we were waiting for the first Liberty U batter to step up to the plate, something odd happened: The Liberty U players assembled around home plate and stood there in silence. At first, we thought it was a strategy meeting, or maybe they were prepping for a big cheer. But then we noticed their eyes were all closed. They were ... praying.



I shouldn't have been surprised. Liberty University is a school for Evangelical Christians founded by Jerry Falwell in 1971. "The Bible, both Old and New Testaments, though written by men, was supernaturally inspired by God so that all its words are the written true revelation of God," declares the school's doctrinal statement. "We affirm that Adam, the first man, willfully disobeyed God, bringing sin and death into the world. As a result, all persons are sinners from conception, which is evidenced in their willful acts of sin; and they are therefore subject to eternal punishment, under the just condemnation of a holy God ... We affirm that the Holy Spirit indwells all who are born again, conforming them to the likeness of Jesus Christ. This is a process completed only in Heaven. Every believer is responsible to live in obedience to the Word of God in separation from sin."



There also is a code of conduct, "The Liberty Way" that more or less demands that students acquit themselves as if they were characters in a 1950s TV show: "All students are asked to display mature Christian behavior in social interaction ... Handholding is the only appropriate form of personal contact ... After dusk, students should not be alone with an individual of the opposite sex in any unlighted area." The subject of sexual intimacy between people of the same sex isn't mentioned explicitly, not only because it is clearly proscribed under the more general admonition that students conform to Biblical strictures, but also, presumably, because the rules were written on the assumption that no gay student would ever want to attend Liberty University in the first place.



Yet, at least one did — Brandon Ambrosino. We know this because he told his story in The Atlantic last year, under the headline "Being Gay at Jerry Falwell's University." And here's the amazing thing about his experience: The University's officials didn't shun him. Instead, they tried to make him feel accepted and loved — even though they regarded his behaviour as prohibited and sinful:



" 'Homosexuality!' I blurted. 'I've been struggling with homosex ...' and I broke down," writes Ambrosino, in describing his first such encounter at Liberty U. "Here I was in the English chair's office at the world's most homophobic university, and I'd just admitted to her I was gay. She got up from her chair, and rushed over to me. I braced myself for the lecture I was going to receive, for the insults she would hurl, for the ridicule I would endure. I knew how Christians were, and how they clung to their beliefs about homosexuals and Sodom and Gomorrah, and how disgusted they were by gay people. The tears fell more freely now because I really liked this teacher, and now I ruined our relationship. 'I love you,' she said. I stopped crying for a second and looked up at her ... 'It's going to be ok,' she said. 'You're ok.' She nodded her head, squeezed my shoulder, and repeated, 'I love you.' "



The stereotype that many Canadians hold of Evangelicals (and of devout Christians more generally) is that their attitude toward gays is phobic and hateful. But from what I know, the reaction Brandon Ambrosino got at Liberty U is much more typical: Love the sinner, even if you hate the sin. And I can't think of any reason why the atmosphere at TWU would be any different.



During my legal practice in the United States, I met plenty of lawyers who'd graduated from explicitly Evangelical, Mormon and Jewish law schools. (Ironically, all of these American religious law-school graduates would be eligible to practice law in Ontario, if they pass our bar exams and satisfy other admission criteria — even though graduates from TWU, a Canadian religious law school, would not.) Law school had not taught them to be homophobic bigots in lawyer's garb: Instead, they were competent and humane professionals who also happened to be religious.



And those Liberty U softball players I met in 1995? They turned out to be great guys when we all went out together after the game. A little squeaky clean, perhaps. But that's not a crime.



Nor, for that matter, is being a Christian. And the Supreme Court of Canada already has instructed one professional society — the British Columbia College of Teachers — that they can't ostracize TWU graduates simply because they don't like the university's religious rules. If the Law Society of Upper Canada won't make its peace with Christianity, it should at least respect settled Canadian law. And if it doesn't, then TWU should litigate this issue until they do.



jkay@nationalpost.com

[ghost]

Just gonna say this.



I'm okay with private schools having their own code of conduct. In the States, there is a whole whack of private universities that cater to religion.



But with the case of TWU, they're not privately funded. They receive money from the Canadian government.



http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/christian-schools-received-20m-from-infrastructure-fund-1.1329280">http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/christi ... -1.1329280">http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/christian-schools-received-20m-from-infrastructure-fund-1.1329280



You can't take government tax money and then discriminate against the minority.

[Obvious Li]

Just gonna say this.



I'm okay with private schools having their own code of conduct. In the States, there is a whole whack of private universities that cater to religion.



But with the case of TWU, they're not privately funded. They receive money from the Canadian government.



http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/christian-schools-received-20m-from-infrastructure-fund-1.1329280">http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/christi ... -1.1329280">http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/christian-schools-received-20m-from-infrastructure-fund-1.1329280



You can't take government tax money and then discriminate against the minority.

so basically you are saying it is ok to discriminate against government tax money paying Canadians, who are christians, and do not wish their tax dollars being used to fund actions that contravene their belief systems...which happens daily in a myriad of examples on every campus in Canada......so discrimination is ok with you as long as it falls in line with what you believe....but in ONE school in Canada the mere fact that attendees are required to abstain from pre-marital sex disqualifies them from becoming practicing attorneys ...interesting perspective......one shared by many of your compatriots........it is irrational and undefendable from any aspect,, but generally inline with modern thinking on the progressive left.

The intolerance of the left is becoming so pervasive in modern society it even garners mention in today's MSM.....even incorrect thinking can be justification for being ostracized from mainstream society, loss of employment or even criminal charges.....this is becoming a rather scary society you are creating....no wonder sharia law is becoming attractive to many newcomers.

[ghost]

I'm not saying that. I'm saying you can't discriminate.



So no Christian only schools. No gay only schools either. Or Jewish only schools. Or white only, black only, green only.



It's up to the government to determine which degrees will be held valid in our country. The barista at my coffee shop has a doctorate in Social Work from the Philippians that is useless here.



And I personally think forcing a student to sign a piece of paper saying they won't have sex violates the students personal interests, regardless of their religion. Not having sex isn't going to make the student any less of a lawyer.

[Romero]

I highly doubt the members of the Law Societies are all lefties. There are conservatives and Christians against that Convenant as well.



The idea that any institution should dictate what adults can do in their personal lives is ridiculous. How would it be enforced? Lie detectors? 24 hour surveillance?



Of course, anyone found out to be unmarried and pregnant or a parent could be kicked out. That's not right. There's the intolerance.

[Obvious Li]

is there a reason...just one....why anyone would want to go to a University that made them do something so offensive ....pls tell me..........if they wanted me to sign something that was so contrary to my beliefs i certainly would not attend.......but that is not good enough for the progressive left.....no no no...they are not satisfied until the rest of society agrees with them....this has nothing to do with getting a law degree.......it has now become part of the "agenda" .......this university does not fit into the progressive program and so it must be crushed....have you folks ever thought about what will happen when you have silenced everyone who dissents...you know, those people who fought and died so you could be different.

[ghost]

As I said above, I have no problem with private schools having their own agenda, as long as they accept no govt funding. We have separation of religion and state for a reason.



Forcing students to sign a piece of paper stating they won't have sex under penalty of being expelled, that's a total violation of rights.



I'll also add that I have great respect for the people who fought and died so I can do things like vote.

[Anonymous]

As I said above, I have no problem with private schools having their own agenda, as long as they accept no govt funding. We have separation of religion and state for a reason.



Forcing students to sign a piece of paper stating they won't have sex under penalty of being expelled, that's a total violation of rights.



I'll also add that I have great respect for the people who fought and died so I can do things like vote.

That's how I see it too. However, I think parents should have the right to direct their tax dollars to private schools including religious ones.

[Obvious Li]

As I said above, I have no problem with private schools having their own agenda, as long as they accept no govt funding. We have separation of religion and state for a reason.



Forcing students to sign a piece of paper stating they won't have sex under penalty of being expelled, that's a total violation of rights.



I'll also add that I have great respect for the people who fought and died so I can do things like vote.

just to correct one point....we do not have separation of church and state in Canada...as a matter of fact the Catholic school system was/is enshrined in the constitution and established across canada.....it was a demand of Quebec agreeing to join confederation in 1867......christian charter schools are available in many provinces as well....again, students are not forced to sign anything.....if they want to attend TWU then they must sign a pledge.......no one is forcing them to attend...there are endless opportunities to go to university in this country......and no,.. law societies cannot pick and chose which degrees from which CANADIAN university they will accept.......TWU will end up suing them and win...but it is silly to have to do that and a clear violation of religious rights in canada....which, by the way are guaranteed under the charter you love so much....gay rights are not.

[Anonymous]

As I said above, I have no problem with private schools having their own agenda, as long as they accept no govt funding. We have separation of religion and state for a reason.



Forcing students to sign a piece of paper stating they won't have sex under penalty of being expelled, that's a total violation of rights.



I'll also add that I have great respect for the people who fought and died so I can do things like vote.

just to correct one point....we do not have separation of church and state in Canada...as a matter of fact the Catholic school system was/is enshrined in the constitution and established across canada.....it was a demand of Quebec agreeing to join confederation in 1867......christian charter schools are available in many provinces as well....again, students are not forced to sign anything.....if they want to attend TWU then they must sign a pledge.......no one is forcing them to attend...there are endless opportunities to go to university in this country......and no,.. law societies cannot pick and chose which degrees from which CANADIAN university they will accept.......TWU will end up suing them and win...but it is silly to have to do that and a clear violation of religious rights in canada....which, by the way are guaranteed under the charter you love so much....gay rights are not.

I am a little busy this morning, so I didn't read the article..



Is that what the Law Society is doing?

 :o

[Obvious Li]

As I said above, I have no problem with private schools having their own agenda, as long as they accept no govt funding. We have separation of religion and state for a reason.



Forcing students to sign a piece of paper stating they won't have sex under penalty of being expelled, that's a total violation of rights.



I'll also add that I have great respect for the people who fought and died so I can do things like vote.

just to correct one point....we do not have separation of church and state in Canada...as a matter of fact the Catholic school system was/is enshrined in the constitution and established across canada.....it was a demand of Quebec agreeing to join confederation in 1867......christian charter schools are available in many provinces as well....again, students are not forced to sign anything.....if they want to attend TWU then they must sign a pledge.......no one is forcing them to attend...there are endless opportunities to go to university in this country......and no,.. law societies cannot pick and chose which degrees from which accreditedCANADIAN university they will accept.......TWU will end up suing them and win...but it is silly to have to do that and a clear violation of religious rights in canada....which, by the way are guaranteed under the charter you love so much....gay rights are not.

I am a little busy this morning, so I didn't read the article..



Is that what the Law Society is doing?

 :o

yes the law societies in Ontario and Nova scotia say they will not recognize law degrees from TWU and it seems the law society of BC is now bowing to the gay lobby and `reviewing`. whether to grant TWU a law program or not.....once again fascism rears it`s ugly head



*note change above i meant accredited university

[Anonymous]

just to correct one point....we do not have separation of church and state in Canada...as a matter of fact the Catholic school system was/is enshrined in the constitution and established across canada.....it was a demand of Quebec agreeing to join confederation in 1867......christian charter schools are available in many provinces as well....again, students are not forced to sign anything.....if they want to attend TWU then they must sign a pledge.......no one is forcing them to attend...there are endless opportunities to go to university in this country......and no,.. law societies cannot pick and chose which degrees from which accreditedCANADIAN university they will accept.......TWU will end up suing them and win...but it is silly to have to do that and a clear violation of religious rights in canada....which, by the way are guaranteed under the charter you love so much....gay rights are not.

I am a little busy this morning, so I didn't read the article..



Is that what the Law Society is doing?

 :o

yes the law societies in Ontario and Nova scotia say they will not recognize law degrees from TWU and it seems the law society of BC is now bowing to the gay lobby and `reviewing`. whether to grant TWU a law program or not.....once again fascism rears it`s ugly head



*note change above i meant accredited university

I will read it when I get home tonight Obvious Li.

[ghost]

just to correct one point....we do not have separation of church and state in Canada...as a matter of fact the Catholic school system was/is enshrined in the constitution and established across canada.....it was a demand of Quebec agreeing to join confederation in 1867......christian charter schools are available in many provinces as well....again, students are not forced to sign anything.....if they want to attend TWU then they must sign a pledge.......no one is forcing them to attend...there are endless opportunities to go to university in this country......and no,.. law societies cannot pick and chose which degrees from which CANADIAN university they will accept.......TWU will end up suing them and win...but it is silly to have to do that and a clear violation of religious rights in canada....which, by the way are guaranteed under the charter you love so much....gay rights are not.

Yes, you're right. Sorry, my bad. We have freedom of religion, which these days has been translated to no religions.



Regardless, forcing students to sign a contract saying they won't have sex is still wrong.  No where in the bible does it straight out state that premarital sex is a sin.



It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

[Romero]

once again fascism rears it`s ugly head

Because dictating what adults can and can't to do in their personal lives isn't fascism.



Criticizing intolerance isn't intolerance. Defending people's rights isn't intolerance. Religious freedom does not allow discrimination.



Here's how silly the rule is: any student could have premarital sex every day and the university would never know. Yet a woman who's showing pregnancy would be kicked out.

[Anonymous]

just to correct one point....we do not have separation of church and state in Canada...as a matter of fact the Catholic school system was/is enshrined in the constitution and established across canada.....it was a demand of Quebec agreeing to join confederation in 1867......christian charter schools are available in many provinces as well....again, students are not forced to sign anything.....if they want to attend TWU then they must sign a pledge.......no one is forcing them to attend...there are endless opportunities to go to university in this country......and no,.. law societies cannot pick and chose which degrees from which CANADIAN university they will accept.......TWU will end up suing them and win...but it is silly to have to do that and a clear violation of religious rights in canada....which, by the way are guaranteed under the charter you love so much....gay rights are not.

Yes, you're right. Sorry, my bad. We have freedom of religion, which these days has been translated to no religions.



Regardless, forcing students to sign a contract saying they won't have sex is still wrong.  No where in the bible does it straight out state that premarital sex is a sin.



It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Prying into the private lives of adults is silly. However, as OL said nobody is forcing anyone to attend a Christian uni. If these contracts are too intrusive(and it is intrusive), then go to another university. It's not like it's TWU or nothing .