The Human Condition.....

[Obvious Li]

Equal rights aren't only a liberal ideology. They're conservative and libertarian too.



This conversation has gotten pretty convoluted, but I simply can't believe I have to argue that all citizens have a right to vote. It's the very cornerstone of liberty, democracy, patriotism and capitalism.



What's next? "Certain people" shouldn't be able to get married, get an education, or start a business?

since it is the state that picks up the tab when losers fail, of course there should be a means test to get married, start a business, vote etc etc......there was for 10,000 years before the 1960's.....it worked to benefit society for millennia so why not now,???

[Renee]

Equal rights aren't only a liberal ideology. They're conservative and libertarian too.



This conversation has gotten pretty convoluted, but I simply can't believe I have to argue that all citizens have a right to vote. It's the very cornerstone of liberty, democracy, patriotism and capitalism.



What's next? "Certain people" shouldn't be able to get married, get an education, or start a business?

Yes it did and it did so because you can't follow the subject logically so you throw hysterics and diversion into the mix.



The only fair solution is to go back to a system of where only those that contribute should have the right to determine where their money should be spent whether it is on a federal, state or local level respectively. The idea that everyone should have a right to vote regardless of how they contribute to the welfare of society is nothing but political pandering to whatever demographic the politicians are fishing for votes from. It's not "democracy" and it's certainly not "capitalism"; it's semi-organized mob rule.



The fact of the matter is that giving tax-users the same say over the use of tax dollars as the taxpayers is unethical and unfair. In principle it's little more than the extortion of the taxpayer for political gain.

[Anonymous]

Yes it did and it did so because you can't follow the subject logically so you throw hysterics and diversion into the mix.



The only fair solution is to go back to a system of where only those that contribute should have the right to determine where their money should be spent whether it is on a federal, state or local level respectively. The idea that everyone should have a right to vote regardless of how they contribute to the welfare of society is nothing but political pandering to whatever demographic the politicians are fishing for votes from. It's not "democracy" and it's certainly not "capitalism"; it's semi-organized mob rule.



The fact of the matter is that giving tax-users the same say over the use of tax dollars as the taxpayers is unethical and unfair. In principle it's little more than the extortion of the taxpayer for political gain.

It should be a criminal offense, but that's how so-called Western democracy works nowadays....pandering to users and losers. It's also why I no longer support liberal democracy as the best system.

[Romero]

Yes it did and it did so because you can't follow the subject logically so you throw hysterics and diversion into the mix.

Hysterics? Where? I see you insulting and name calling but nowhere do I see myself throwing hysterics.

The only fair solution is to go back to a system of where only those that contribute should have the right to determine where their money should be spent whether it is on a federal, state or local level respectively.

The only fair solution is to be unfair!



I think it's pretty funny that you would deny yourself the right to vote.

[Anonymous]

^^Dude, you are doing again. Renee, myself and OL have been consistent that people without skin in the game do not deserve to decide how our money is spent. You can't counter this, so instead you put words in our mouths.



I repeat it has nothing to do with race, gender or political preferences. People that don't contribute should not be allowed to decide how my money is spent. It's unfair, unethical and immoral.

[Romero]

It was Renee who said she wants to go back to a previous system and it was Renee who mentioned that women didn't have a God given right to vote.

Furthermore he thinks that our founding fathers were of the opinion that voting rights were just some kind of God given right no matter whom or what you were in society. That is patently false and the prime example is that woman in the 18th, 19th and early 20th centuries did not have the right to vote and didn't have the right to vote until 1920 with the ratification of the 19th Amendment.

Oh, and:

Originally only Caucasians who owned more than a certain amount of land could vote because they were the main contributors to the agrarian style economy that the US had at the time.

So that takes care of all those pesky Asians who voted for Obama.



And it's not as if Renee contributes more than most of the Americans she would take rights away from.



I know, I know. You guys think you're all exempt and special but you're not. If you think you can just take rights away from others then your rights can be taken away too.

[Renee]

Yes it did and it did so because you can't follow the subject logically so you throw hysterics and diversion into the mix.

Hysterics? Where? I see you insulting and name calling but nowhere do I see myself throwing hysterics.

Really wringing your hands and trying to make a case that I don't want African Americans to vote isn't hysterics? Come now Romero, you must either think we are all stupid or as I suspect, you simply don't grasp the premise of this thread.

The only fair solution is to go back to a system of where only those that contribute should have the right to determine where their money should be spent whether it is on a federal, state or local level respectively.

The only fair solution is to be unfair!



I think it's pretty funny that you would deny yourself the right to vote.

Not sure where you get that from. I pay taxes on a state and federal levels so how would I deny myself the right to vote?

[Romero]

I pay taxes on a state and federal levels so how would I deny myself the right to vote?

So? So does pretty well every other average American. The list is a lot more than just that.



Do you own property in your name? Is your name on the property taxes? Are you a man of means? Have you ever received government assistance?

[Obvious Li]

I pay taxes on a state and federal levels so how would I deny myself the right to vote?

So? So does pretty well every other average American. The list is a lot more than just that.



Do you own property in your name? Is your name on the property taxes? Are you a man of means? Have you ever received government assistance?

if you have a govt. job you are a net drain on the  treasury.....if you receive govt. assistance (over 50% and counting) you forfeit your rights to vote on a spending issue...simple.......you contribute you get a say...you take..you don't

[Romero]

if you receive govt. assistance (over 50% and counting) you forfeit your rights to vote on a spending issue...simple.......you contribute you get a say...you take..you don't

Okay, so you won't be voting in any elections.

[Obvious Li]

if you receive govt. assistance (over 50% and counting) you forfeit your rights to vote on a spending issue...simple.......you contribute you get a say...you take..you don't

Okay, so you won't be voting in any elections.

nice try homy.....fortunately i qualify under all the required conditions.....to bad for you and your relatives

[Anonymous]

I pay taxes on a state and federal levels so how would I deny myself the right to vote?

So? So does pretty well every other average American. The list is a lot more than just that.



Do you own property in your name? Is your name on the property taxes? Are you a man of means? Have you ever received government assistance?

if you have a govt. job you are a net drain on the  treasury.....if you receive govt. assistance (over 50% and counting) you forfeit your rights to vote on a spending issue...simple.......you contribute you get a say...you take..you don't

I would not be permitted to vote?



I don't care though, because I don't vote anyway.

[Anonymous]

Besides putting words in people's mouths, Romero has not given us a single reason why people without skin in the game should be allowed a say in how my money is spent?



We're waiting?????

[Romero]

if you receive govt. assistance (over 50% and counting) you forfeit your rights to vote on a spending issue...simple.......you contribute you get a say...you take..you don't

Okay, so you won't be voting in any elections.

nice try homy.....fortunately i qualify under all the required conditions.....to bad for you and your relatives

Sorry, but you have disqualified yourself.



"if you receive govt. assistance you forfeit your rights to vote"

Employment Insurance (EI) provides temporary financial assistance to unemployed Canadians who have lost their job through no fault of their own, while they look for work or upgrade their skills.



http://www.servicecanada.gc.ca/eng/sc/ei/">//http://www.servicecanada.gc.ca/eng/sc/ei/

Call it insurance, but it's definitely also known as government assistance, a government and social program, a government benefit and a form of welfare.



Too bad for me and my relatives? You've never stopped me and my relatives from voting and you never will!

[Romero]

Besides putting words in people's mouths, Romero has not given us a single reason why people without skin in the game should be allowed a say in how my money is spent?



We're waiting?????

Voting is a basic human and democratic right. There are no citizens "without skin in the game".



When we start taking away rights where does it stop? We can see that the longer we have this discussion, the longer the list of people who shouldn't be able to vote becomes. You guys just keep adding and adding to the list without even realizing that your including yourselves.



There was a time when Chinese Canadians were denied their right to vote. We don't want to go back to those days.



I prefer a capitalist democracy, not whatever the heck it is you guys are looking for.