So DSM, tell me more about this "once saved permanently saved" stuff

[Lokmar]

Neither christianity nor any other religion *owns* the concept of morality or the idea of having principles. Such things existed before christianity, still exist outside christianity, and will exist as long as there are people around to imagine such things.

The christian mythos is but one of many such collections of tales, parables, and "commandments". It's not even original... you can find all the major themes and stories and plots in religions that came before christianity. Christianity is only the same ol' superstitious nonsense repackaged for a new audience. And christianity continues to absorb and adapt "heathen" rituals and holidays in a bid to stay relevant.

It has always changed, since the very beginning of its run. To complain that it has changed here in 'Murica is trying to deny it the very mechanism by which it has evolved and lasted this long.

But hey- do what you like with it; it's your religion not mine.

But none of that is the point. The point is answering the question "what were the ideals America was founded upon".

If you want to change the rules, the DOI asserts people have the right to overthrow their current form of government and establish a new one.

[Lokmar]

So, has this thread moved on from dick cheese then?

Not exactly. Adolph just mentioned loads of concern for what he perceives as my handicapped wang just a few posts ago. 

[Dove]

Not exactly. Adolph just mentioned loads of concern for what he perceives as my handicapped wang just a few posts ago. 

 You said "loads" 

[Garraty_47]

But none of that is the point. The point is answering the question "what were the ideals America was founded upon".

If you want to change the rules, the DOI asserts people have the right to overthrow their current form of government and establish a new one.

You seem to be conflating two different things -christianity and foundational ideals- then pretending both are lost if the overtly religious aspects drop below a level you have deemed "acceptable".

All we need are the ideals.
The religious stuff adds nothing tangible to the mix and frankly is more bother than it's worth.

We'd be better off without it.

[Lokmar]

You seem to be conflating two different things -christianity and foundational ideals- then pretending both are lost if the overtly religious aspects drop below a level you have deemed "acceptable".

All we need are the ideals.
The religious stuff adds nothing tangible to the mix and frankly is more bother than it's worth.

We'd be better off without it.

I disagree that they are two different things. The foundational ideals come directly from Judeo-Christianity as found in the Bible. To be sure, the founders were absolutely unwavering and resolute that those ideals are not tainted by denomination or brand of Christianity but they are unarguably principals from the Bible.

IMO, Jefferson actually demonstrates this point, albeit AFTER he bought a koran and studied islam, pig drippings be upon it. Before the Barbary Pirate Wars, Jefferson had a casual knowledge of islam and mistakenly believed that the shitgod allah was the same as The God of the Bible and Israel. Via negotiations with the Pirate leaders AND study of the koran, Jefferson testified before Congress how contemptible and corrupt islam is, pig scat be sprayed upon it.

Having read much of the koran (also available in 2-ply) myself, I can relate to the epiphany Jefferson had.

[Garraty_47]

I disagree that they are two different things. The foundational ideals come directly from Judeo-Christianity.

You can't possibly believe that before christianity nobody on the planet was noble, or moral, or principled. You can't possibly believe nobody on the planet right now who isn't a christian has any nobility, or morality, or principles.

The christian religion and/or its adherents can *claim* ownership of morals and principles but it's an absurdity.

It's just not an actual thing.

[Lokmar]

You can't possibly believe that before christianity nobody on the planet was noble, or moral, or principled. You can't possibly believe nobody on the planet right now who isn't a christian has any nobility, or morality, or principles.

The christian religion and/or its adherents can *claim* ownership of morals and principles but it's an absurdity.

It's just not an actual thing.

I believe that before sentient man or whatever point man was with a soul, humanoids were nothing but animals. At some point, we were given the ability to chose right vs wrong and the rules were made known to us by God. Mankind has bastardized every set of rules in every sort of way ever since. Todays flavor is judge not me joining these two asspunchers in Gods House lest ye be the biggest most super baddie of all times.

General "Christianity" has never laid claim to the sole ownership of morality or that without a Bible, people had no moral compass. The founders recognized this as well and wrote it into the DOI. How did they recognize it? The Bible teaches us that we are born with the innate ability to recognize right from wrong.

Now of course libs want to rule by exception and tell me there's brain damaged people who dont have that ability, what about them. Well, God says to kill em, HE will sort them out.

I once read that the Bible reads like court testimony and I very much agree. In the beginning, man had few rules but as he learned to be more and more abusing, the laws got more and more restrictive. The law set forth by Jesus is even far more harsh and strict than the 633 Laws put on the Jews. Very few understand that. I suspect that bastardizing "The Way" as it was commonly referred to near Jesus' time, is an even worse crime than what the Pharisees were doing. Thats just complete opinion by me though.

[Bonesaw]

Not sure what people need saving from anyway.  Hell isn't real.  It's as real as the works of the Grimms, only adults still believe it for some unfathomable reason.

Who needs that kind of baggage?

[Lokmar]

Not sure what people need saving from anyway.  Hell isn't real.  It's as real as the works of the Grimms, only adults still believe it for some unfathomable reason.

Well, we definitely need saved from jackbooted governments that create hell on earth so there's that.

[Frood]

Your goal post is not a good look. Its completely unreasonable to view both as equals in any way shape or form.

I've got boys who've had both methods so I speak from experience. Unless you are constantly after them to pull the skin back when bathing, little kids will have hygiene issues. No doubt once they got older and couldnt keep their hands off it, it was better kept clean.

I freely admit I am "having it both ways" by your standards. I will continue to do so unashamedly. The FACT! still remains though that a circumcised penis still functions normally while a circumcised vagina does not. Neither I nor my oldest boy were victimized by what was done to us out of the desire to keep us clean. However, my younger boys were victimized by their pediatrician not to mention that we were all defrauded as to what would be done to them in regards to circumcision.

The doctor never explained that he wouldnt be performing a traditional circ. I seriously thought about suing him when my youngest had issues to the point where I literally had to make the youngest pull the skin back and thoroughly wash it properly while he cried his ass off because of the pain. This happened several times. I guarantee you, NOT having a proper circ was far far far more traumatic for him because of the issues he had. I've also discussed having it corrected with them if they continue to have problems as adults.

Comparing women to men circs as the same makes you look uneducated and unreasonable. Seriously.

Ok,MGM dude.

Keep drinking that Kool Aid. 

[Adolf Oliver Bush]

You cant

The correct spelling is "cun`T"... but you were probably too busy learning the ins and outs of buttplugs at your school to learn how to spell, so I forgive you.

Remember, to forgive is divine. Therefore I am as a God. Yay and shit.

[Lokmar]

Ok,MGM dude.

Keep drinking that Kool Aid. 

10-4. I will.

[Lokmar]

The correct spelling is "cun`T"... but you were probably too busy learning the ins and outs of buttplugs at your school to learn how to spell, so I forgive you.

Remember, to forgive is divine. Therefore I am as a God. Yay and shit.

Nice surrender.

[Adolf Oliver Bush]

Nice surrender.

Cruddy airclaim. Don't worry, I expect no better from you.

[Lokmar]

Cruddy airclaim. Don't worry, I expect no better from you.

You became boring. Its you, not me.