Final word on DB pensions....

[RW]

I was learning about pension before the Huffington Post was a player.



You and I both know that I know my shit re:pensions.  I've spanked you enough times that it's undeniable.  I just can't bring myself to argue with media info.  You can't read some newspaper shit and expect to have your fingers on the pulse of pension understanding.



seoul - compensation packages / renumeration packages include benefits which include pension contributions.  You need to think if it as part of the pay package.



Poverty is a bad bad thing people!  That applies to pensioners too!!!!

[Chickenfeets]

Well, poverty is certainly a bad thing if you're poor.



The rich, who get rich on the backs of the poor, would beg to differ.



On second thought, scratch that. The rich don't beg. They just take.



*smokebomb*

[RW]

Poverty isn't good for anyone, including the rich.

[Obvious Li]

RW...you are attempting to defend the indefensible....you cannot win this argument...all the facts are on my/others side...you are left with trying to put lipstick on the pig to find it a good home....sorry it just won't wash......the real numbers cannot be covered up any longer.....civil servant pensions will eventually bankrupt this country and must be abolished...simple as that



sometimes stubbornness can be an admirable trait......stupidity however, is not..... :ugeek:

[RW]

Learn to read please.  I said they need to can it with the topping up bullshit based on imaginary short falls on market dependent funds.  



And since you are so fucking smart Mu say, what's the reinvestment ratio of these plans into Canadian corporations?  How would said investment affect say job creation/employment?

[Obvious Li]

Learn to read please.  I said they need to can it with the topping up bullshit based on imaginary short falls on market dependent funds.  



And since you are so fucking smart Mu say, what's the reinvestment ratio of these plans into Canadian corporations?  How would said investment affect say job creation/employment?

again...your comments are irrelevant.....who cares what amount of DB govt. pension monies are invested in canadian companies...and how many jobs they create.......this money is not new money that could be used to create wealth.......it is money stolen from the taxpayers and taken out of the economy.....who knows how many jobs could be created if these funds were left in the hands of private entrepreneurs to create more wealth....we will never know



always a puzzlement that people of a certain political persuasion seem to think money circulated from govt. employee paychecks is somehow new money and beneficial to the economy...these funds are taken directly form someone else who actually worked for them and redistributed to some civil servant who in most case is paid much more then the person they stole the funds from originally...and works far less for them..........how fucking insane does that all sound......the system is completely broken, needs to be scrapped and completely overhauled.....the problem is the govt. is very clever.....it gives enough voters a hand out each month to ensure the system never changes......taxpayers need to wake up and take care of business

[Chickenfeets]

Admittedly, I don't know much about all this stuff, Mr. Munday, so I tend to keep quiet, but I am curious.



Among other things, as to why you keep equating taxes with theft. Seems to me it would be tough to run a country, any country, without requiring that its citizens contribute to maintaining and developing services and infrastructure that go to make up that country.



Call me clueless, but it's a genuine question.



I mean, what's the alternative? Rely on the goodwill alone of those who produce wealth? What am I not getting, here?

[Anonymous]

Admittedly, I don't know much about all this stuff, Mr. Munday, so I tend to keep quiet, but I am curious.



Among other things, as to why you keep equating taxes with theft. Seems to me it would be tough to run a country, any country, without requiring that its citizens contribute to maintaining and developing services and infrastructure that go to make up that country.



Call me clueless, but it's a genuine question.



I mean, what's the alternative? Rely on the goodwill alone of those who produce wealth? What am I not getting, here?

It's really sad that there are people that still believe taxation and even more of it is in their interests. Canadians spend more on taxes than food, shelter or clothing for their kids. Government was about providing good value for money and keeping costs low at one time, but that is all in the past now. It is a greedy beast now that keeps wanting more to provide good jobs/contracts to cronies and buy votes. I would like to see government put on a much shorter leash with a tighter collar. It's time we the people stopped the growth of the monster and regained our freedom.

[Obvious Li]

Admittedly, I don't know much about all this stuff, Mr. Munday, so I tend to keep quiet, but I am curious.



Among other things, as to why you keep equating taxes with theft. Seems to me it would be tough to run a country, any country, without requiring that its citizens contribute to maintaining and developing services and infrastructure that go to make up that country.



Call me clueless, but it's a genuine question.



I mean, what's the alternative? Rely on the goodwill alone of those who produce wealth? What am I not getting, here?

just speaking political theory here...there was a time long long ago when govt. had good intentions to try and help the less fortunate, stabilize it's various regions and standardize programs for all it's citizens......

that all changed with the introduction of income tax in WW1....greed and power entered the equation....then it was property taxes, then tobacco, alcohol, fuel, etc. etc.followed by regulations and associated fees for everything...govt. programs for every purpose and every one......it has become a monster, sucking the life from the country and it's citizens......IMHO govt. functions could be reduced by 80-90%....... introducing a flat 10% consumption tax would more than cover the cost of delivering basic services to the country and it's citizens....i could accept giving up 10% of my hard earned money to pay for essential services, provided they were non union and run rationally. Anything above that is outright theft...using the state to legally steal, doesn't change that.

Currently, any program administered by govt. is a complete boondoggle and waste of money..it is the nature of the beast...greed, power and ambition drive the decision making process..common sense went absent in the 1960`s...unfortunately we now have two generations of citizens and millions of recent immigrants who like receiving govt. services..thank you very much....and wish to keep it that way...thus the system will remain intact....the country now sits at 650 billion in debt federally, probably 400 billion provincially,  plus another trillion in unfunded pension liabilities for all unionized govt. workers...who knows how big the number can get before the pyramid scheme fails....when it does a lot of people will feel the pain.

[Anonymous]

just speaking political theory here...there was a time long long ago when govt. had good intentions to try and help the less fortunate, stabilize it's various regions and standardize programs for all it's citizens......

that all changed with the introduction of income tax in WW1....greed and power entered the equation....then it was property taxes, then tobacco, alcohol, fuel, etc. etc.followed by regulations and associated fees for everything...govt. programs for every purpose and every one......it has become a monster, sucking the life from the country and it's citizens......IMHO govt. functions could be reduced by 80-90%....... introducing a flat 10% consumption tax would more than cover the cost of delivering basic services to the country and it's citizens....i could accept giving up 10% of my hard earned money to pay for essential services, provided they were non union and run rationally. Anything above that is outright theft...using the state to legally steal, doesn't change that.

Currently, any program administered by govt. is a complete boondoggle and waste of money..it is the nature of the beast...greed, power and ambition drive the decision making process..common sense went absent in the 1960`s...unfortunately we now have two generations of citizens and millions of recent immigrants who like receiving govt. services..thank you very much....and wish to keep it that way...thus the system will remain intact....the country now sits at 650 billion in debt federally, probably 400 billion provincially,  plus another trillion in unfunded pension liabilities for all unionized govt. workers...who knows how big the number can get before the pyramid scheme fails....when it does a lot of people will feel the pain.

It amazes me how so many people in the "enlightened" West fall for this idea that more and more needs to be done and damn the cost to you and I. I was reading some of EU's "wisdom" on the other forum and he called people in Singapore soul less robots or some stupid shit like that. The people in Singapore would never accept the increases in taxes and fees that Canadians have had to endure for so many decades. However, no point in trying to reason with a dunce that thinks money grows on other people's trees.



Canadians have become like sheep. If we want to get control over our own paycheques again, we need to let the three levels of government know we won't stand for this slippery slope that they have placed us on.

[Romero]

unfortunately we now have two generations of citizens and millions of recent immigrants who like receiving govt. services..thank you very much....and wish to keep it that way.

The hypocrisy is astonishing.

[Anonymous]

unfortunately we now have two generations of citizens and millions of recent immigrants who like receiving govt. services..thank you very much....and wish to keep it that way.

The hypocrisy is astonishing.

It wouldn't be hypocritical if EI was a REAL insurance program. Then again, if it was a real insurance program OL's premiums would be so high he would have to opt out of it.

[Obvious Li]

unfortunately we now have two generations of citizens and millions of recent immigrants who like receiving govt. services..thank you very much....and wish to keep it that way.

The hypocrisy is astonishing.

It wouldn't be hypocritical if EI was a REAL insurance program. Then again, if it was a real insurance program OL's premiums would be so high he would have to opt out of it.

guys you need to really really try and understand the EI system in which NO govt. money is involved....they are merely the trustees of the plan...the contributions to EI consist of employee and employer funds only...in fact there is such a large surplus every year in EI that the govt. steals/appropriates the surplus and adds it to general revenue and adds that amount to the unfunded liability side of the balance sheet..fucking pure theft...otherwise they could lower my premiums or increase my payouts substantially.

[Anonymous]

guys you need to really really try and understand the EI system in which NO govt. money is involved....they are merely the trustees of the plan...the contributions to EI consist of employee and employer funds only...in fact there is such a large surplus every year in EI that the govt. steals/appropriates the surplus and adds it to general revenue and adds that amount to the unfunded liability side of the balance sheet..fucking pure theft...otherwise they could lower my premiums or increase my payouts substantially.

I totally get that no taxpayer money is involved handsome. I am also aware that governments(especially the former Liberal government) uses surpluses from it for other things. Yes, that is legalized theft of private money which if you were to do at your company would put you in jail. This is why I would prefer the private sector to administer the program and make paying into it voluntary.



However, it is NOT a rel insurance program. We have private auto insurance in Alberta. We pay very high rates because both of us have been at fault and had claims against our insurer. Let's say someone like yourself has had a clean slate for the past 10+ years, you would be paying much lower premiums than myself. The same thing should apply to EI. Repeat users should have higher premiums than those of us that will NEVER use it.

[Romero]

guys you need to really really try and understand the EI system in which NO govt. money is involved

Employees and employers pay the premiums, right? Well, government employees work for the government. So some tax money is going towards EI recipients.



And from a source you would highly approve of:

How EI Increases Unemployment and Steals Billions from Working Canadians



The EI program is extremely inefficient with administration costs ringing in at $28 billion between 1993-94 and 2011-12 or $4 million every day. The admin costs take $400 a year out of the hands of a dual-income household.



EI is one of the biggest sources of revenue for the federal government, reaching $20.4 billion in 2012-13. This is 58 per cent as much as was received through corporate income taxes or 47 per cent as much as the government collects in tariffs and duties. While the case can be made – and the CTF does – that business, income taxes and tariffs are too high in Canada, at least taxpayers can see tangible benefits for their tax dollars in infrastructure spending, national defence and health care. The difference with EI is that the vast majority of Canadians see no benefit to this tax in any given year, while a minority of the population collects from the program on an annual basis.