CNN presidential debate

[Lokmar]

I couldn't resist so I fired up a proxy and took a peek

they are not doing so good right now 

as stupid as they are apparently even they can sense something went horribly wrong with the Commander N Corpse last night

now they are just awaiting what the party wants them to parrot next like the good little stooge lemmings they are.

LOL! Good job brother!!!!

I'm still surprised that those dipshits cant figure it out for themselves. They never make a move without marching orders and today, their handlers are freaking the fuk out so they can do nothing.

[Garraty_47]

Sorry, but they sure as hell look like they care right now.

Their brainwashed constituency cares because they still believe the DNC bullshit.

The bureaucrats and propagandists already know they're losing but all they're really concerned about is preventing people from looking outside the duopoly for solutions. The herd may bleat and stampede around their pens but as long as they remain safely inside the fences it's only background noise to the establishment types.

[Biggie Smiles]

Their brainwashed constituency cares because they still believe the DNC bullshit.

The bureaucrats and propagandists already know they're losing but all they're really concerned about is preventing people from looking outside the duopoly for solutions. The herd may bleat and stampede around their pens but as long as they remain safely inside the fences it's only background noise to the establishment types.

To an extent I agree with you.

But Trump has definitely fashioned himself as a bit of anomaly to that entire paradigm which is why they are pretty much universal in their ongoing attacks against him. With each fervent and baseless attack they are showing you more an more he is an outsider to the establishment. Maybe not entirely due to coincidental alignments with their underlying objectives;  And we can most certainly agree in 200 plus years they have fashioned enough safety valves to ensure no one entity with a conscience could ever completely deprive them of their grip on power, but fuck if he isn't the closest thing you're going to see in your lifetime.

Sure you have your usual turncoat suspects like McConnell who stick their finger in the air, determine which way the wind is blowing and outwardly fall into whatever line is necessary to preserve their own ass but we all know secretly that him and people like him are working tirelessly to stab trump in the back. So he's fighting BOTH parties ATM and we all know it.

I know you are smart enough to see this for yourself which is why I find it strikingly odd that you cannot look past the rather generous supply of faults we all see in this man.  As once again, he is far from perfect but damn if he isn't closest thing to this outsider of the duopoly yyou are going to see materialize in your lifetime.

I can assure you of that.

In fact, if you listened carefully he actually referenced this in a round about way last night. on the topic of abortion, while appealing to the wackjobs in the republican party who might refuse to vote for him lest he take an absurd hardliners stance and ban ever conceivable avenue of abortion imaginable with zero exception he said this:  "you have to get elected first, and would you rather some leftist nutjob who will advocate for post birth genocide or someone who will return the matter to the people so they can vote on it"

You see? That's where his party alliance starts and stops. At the doorstep of whatever it takes to play the game according to the existing rules.. otherwise go back to sitting on the sidelines and just dream instead because you are guaranteed to be ineffective.

The republican party is a conduit which is the only realistic avenue to get him where he needs to be to effect the change he wants to make. I can both see and respect the logic in that. It's pragmatic and realistic

I mean, c'mon bro, you supported Cornell West originally and that guy might as well be first cousin to Satan himself he's so shamelessly corrupt.

Trump is not the ideal candidate. We can agree there, but turning your nose in hopes that the right candidate who navigates outside of this 200 plus year system we have now is going to spontaneously fall from the sky like Manna is a bit of a naive pipe dream my friend.

Right now you have okay and you have absolutely terrible. Period. It's not even a matter of bad vs worse as the variance is that vast here.

A vote for Biden is essentially treason

A no vote is just willing apathy to the destruction of our republic

And a vote for Trump is a hail Mary pass in the 4th quarter with the fleeting hope that the inevitable collapse of our repulic can be staved off for a few more years.

[Lokmar]

Right now you have okay and you have absolutely terrible. Period. It's not even a matter of bad vs worse as the variance is that vast here.

A vote for Biden is essentially treason

A no vote is just willing apathy to the destruction of our republic

And a vote for Trump is a hail Mary pass in the 4th quarter with the fleeting hope that the inevitable collapse of our repulic can be staved off for a few more years.

I've told my wife, another Trump win means more time to prep before the coming shitstorm. IMO, the country is lost.

[Garraty_47]

I mean, c'mon bro, you supported Cornell West originally and that guy might as well be first cousin to Satan himself he's so shamelessly corrupt.

I supported his message of peace and people over profits.
Just like I supported Bernie's message.

Up until the point where they took off their masks to reveal the self-interested establishment goons underneath the flowery rhetoric and platitudinous pablum.

I still support that message.
It's the individuals who proved themselves incapable of walking the walk that I no longer support.

And a vote for Trump is a hail Mary pass in the 4th quarter with the fleeting hope that the inevitable collapse of our repulic can be staved off for a few more years.

Trump has only ever cared about Trump.

Just like I take into consideration Biden's record as a congressman I also take into consideration who Trump has been and what he's done in past decades.

He was and will be beholden to his advisors and cabinet appointees and the permanent state operatives to steer his administration and actually do the work. He's transactional; for their support in his campaign he will owe various special interest groups favors- whether that's government positions or certain policy positions or whatever. The gist is he's no less in the pockets of ideologues and zealots than any other politician and maybe even more so because he *doesn't* have long-standing networks and contacts to use as a buffer against outside influences.

Plus he doesn't care about much of anything I care about, as far as I can see. I don't vote out of spite or just to "pwn" the other side. Trump's not my boy because he's never been my boy and never will be.

[Biggie Smiles]

I supported his message of peace and people over profits.
Just like I supported Bernie's message.

Up until the point where they took off their masks to reveal the self-interested establishment goons underneath the flowery rhetoric and platitudinous pablum.

I still support that message.
It's the individuals who proved themselves incapable of walking the walk that I no longer support.

Trump has only ever cared about Trump.

Just like I take into consideration Biden's record as a congressman I also take into consideration who Trump has been and what he's done in past decades.

He was and will be beholden to his advisors and cabinet appointees and the permanent state operatives to steer his administration and actually do the work. He's transactional; for their support in his campaign he will owe various special interest groups favors- whether that's government positions or certain policy positions or whatever. The gist is he's no less in the pockets of ideologues and zealots than any other politician and maybe even more so because he *doesn't* have long-standing networks and contacts to use as a buffer against outside influences.

Plus he doesn't care about much of anything I care about, as far as I can see. I don't vote out of spite or just to "pwn" the other side. Trump's not my boy because he's never been my boy and never will be.

you started your counter with the premise that you supported the message and candidate behind it until they proved to you that their actions and intents were inconsistent with the message.

fair enough.

but this begs a question. Two in fact.

what message of Trump's are you in disagreement with, and for any that you happen to agree with in what way has he shown his actions to run contrary to his words?

[JOE]

The looks on Trump's face while biden begins to mumble and collapse is everything 

Sad. Creeping Signs of dementia, eh Biggie Smiles Bigly?

Trump wasn't even debating a President.

He was debating a geriatric patient.

The Republicans had their own version of it in John McCain.

Now it's the Democrats' turn.

For the greater good of either party, there should be a maximum age at which a person can run for President or serve in public office in the US.

[Lokmar]

Sad. Creeping Signs of dementia, eh Biggie Smiles Bigly?

Trump wasn't even debating a President.

He was debating a geriatric patient.

The Republicans had their own version of it in John McCain.

Now it's the Democrats' turn.

For the greater good of either party, there should be a maximum age at which a person can run for President or serve in public office in the US.

You're about to get another 4 year dose of Saint Trump, josephine! ENJOY!

[JOE]

You're about to get another 4 year dose of Saint Trump, josephine! ENJOY!

What a 2nd term of Trump will look like.... LokmarL okmeer!

[Lokmar]

What a 2nd term of Trump will look like.... LokmarL okmeer!

What you'll look like during a 2nd term of Saint Trump:

[JOE]

What you'll look like during a 2nd term of Saint Trump:

Oh. I was thinkin' more along the lines the Democrats havin' their 'Hitler in the Bunker' moment..... LokmarL okmeer!

However unlike Hitler, Biden will become progressively brain dead by then, unawares of the electoral disaster he's created for his party.

[Lokmar]

Oh. I was thinkin' more along the lines the Democrats havin' their 'Hitler in the Bunker' moment..... LokmarL okmeer!

However unlike Hitler, Biden will become progressively brain dead by then, unawares of the electoral disaster he's created for his party.

But josephine, you ARE a democRAT!

[Garraty_47]

what message of Trump's are you in disagreement with, and for any that you happen to agree with in what way has he shown his actions to run contrary to his words?

1)
His favorite bone to chew: immigrants

His "plan" is a reactionary response to crack down on some of the most vulnerable in our society -the good along with the bad- without addressing any of the fundamental reasons people flee other countries, namely 'Murican interference and exploitation that keeps those countries poor, corrupt, and unstable.

If a pipe is leaking you can place a bucket to catch the water and dump it whenever it fills or you could fix the fucking leak. Trump's "plan" is the bucket approach and only guarantees the issue will never get fixed.

2)
Honestly I don't know of one right off... Trump has probably said things occasionally with which I agree but so has Biden and other democrats. That doesn't mean I believe they have any intention of fighting for those things and it doesn't matter anyway because I don't vote for republicans or democrats.

When it comes to the duopoly I'm just an uninvolved observer; I don't have any dogs in those fights. I don't care who they run... that's not my candidate. I think the parties themselves should be abandoned or destroyed so anyone flying one of those flags is an instant 'pass' from me.

[Biggie Smiles]

1)
His favorite bone to chew: immigrants

His "plan" is a reactionary response to crack down on some of the most vulnerable in our society -the good along with the bad- without addressing any of the fundamental reasons people flee other countries, namely 'Murican interference and exploitation that keeps those countries poor, corrupt, and unstable.

If a pipe is leaking you can place a bucket to catch the water and dump it whenever it fills or you could fix the fucking leak. Trump's "plan" is the bucket approach and only guarantees the issue will never get fixed.

Gotcha, and agreed to a point. We should stay the fuck out of other world affairs. We topple stable govrenements and meddle in affairs that do not concern us and then wonder why these fucking ant farms migrate here.

Totally get you here.

problem is, much of that damage is already done and cannot be undone in a short 4 year span. So to say we are not allowed to keep these people out of our country because of some past misdeed, executed by some former administration is pretty much tantamount to telling me I owe some lazy fucker of a darker skin tone reparations because of some bad shit people whom I've never known did to some people they've never known hundreds of years ago.

Sins of the father should not waterfall down to the sons/grandsons/so on. The gauntlet has to drop somewhere. And I say drop it now and cease and desist from all foreign affair activity STAT. and that includes Ukraine and any other area of the world we are sticking our noses into in a gratuitous manner. And I think Trump is advocating  doing just that. Hence the reason he is hated so vehemently by the industrial war complex who profits greatly from establishment crooks like Biden

2)
Honestly I don't know of one right off... Trump has probably said things occasionally with which I agree but so has Biden and other democrats. That doesn't mean I believe they have any intention of fighting for those things and it doesn't matter anyway because I don't vote for republicans or democrats.

When it comes to the duopoly I'm just an uninvolved observer; I don't have any dogs in those fights. I don't care who they run... that's not my candidate. I think the parties themselves should be abandoned or destroyed so anyone flying one of those flags is an instant 'pass' from me.

in the absence of tangible evidence to the contrary why aren't you affording him the same benefit of doubt you afforded Cornell West.

[JOE]

1)
His favorite bone to chew: immigrants

His "plan" is a reactionary response to crack down on some of the most vulnerable in our society -the good along with the bad- without addressing any of the fundamental reasons people flee other countries, namely 'Murican interference and exploitation that keeps those countries poor, corrupt, and unstable.

....most glaring is the Republican Party's refusal to fund family planning and birth control for these poor countries, especially Latin America where parts of it population growth is clearly out of control.

Like...tell these poor countries to keep pumpin' out more babies, don't provide them with any means to bring their birth rates down, so when these babies grow up, there's no jobs or opportunity for them, so they go North where the perceived jobs, opportunity and prosperity are, and they try to 'gate crash' into the United States.

Yeah, that really makes sense.

Create this vicious circle of migrants America doesn't want, but its leaders encouraged these 'savages' to be overly fertile.

That's really brainless planning, in which case more of the illegal migrants will keep a comin' to America's borders. But in the meantime, they'll be this convenient scapegoat which the Religious Right in the Republican Party has helped to perpetuate. Amy Coney Barret et al.