Kangaroo Court

[Mel Gibson]

That is quite often the end result of excessive substance abuse.



Some can "manage" better than others, or for longer than others, but I can guarantee you this...  These people will have family members that are, or were, in the same boat.



In fact, I am willing to bet my life savings on this fact.

[Mel Gibson]

One of the biggest untruths that we have been led to believe, is that "all people are created equal."  This is pure and utter bullshit.  Anyone with a brain can see that this is untrue.

[Anonymous]

One of the biggest untruths that we have been led to believe, is that "all people are created equal."  This is pure and utter bullshit.  Anyone with a brain can see that this is untrue.

Well duh, obviously. This is why universal suffrage is such an archaic ideal.

[Mel Gibson]

We all know that some people are just plain dumber than others...  ac_biggrin



On an alcohol related topic, you Asians may be lucky, since many of you cannot really drink like the other races can to begin with, due to genetics... And since the mutation is a genetic issue, there is no cure for this alcohol "flush reaction."

[Mel Gibson]

Most people that "abuse" substances have a genetic predisposition to do as such.



For example, I will not consume alcohol at all before dinner, and stay away from hard alcohol.  In fact, I typically don't even stock hard alcohol, unless a guest may desire some.  The reason being, once I start to drink, it is difficult to stop.



The brain likes it so much, that it is actually quite uncomfortable to have a few, and then stop.  Many people do not have this issue.  It is not an issue of "willpower," per se.  The brain reacts differently to alcohol, gaining much more pleasure from it, it seems.  It also reacts differently when alcohol is no longer consumed.  It is hard to explain, but it is actually uncomfortable to just stop.



Hence, my rule that I implemented long ago.  Those that can drink a couple socially, I congratulate you for having the ability to do so.  For those, it may be hard to understand why some people that start drinking, will continue to do so, often until passing out.

[Mel Gibson]

I have no doubt that these genes play a role in other addictions as well...  Excessive gambling, excessive eating, excessive drug use, etc.  I believe they are all closely related.



To an obese person, to just "stop eating" may have a similar result as telling a boozer to just "stop drinking" or the gambler to just "stop gambling."

[Anonymous]

We all know that some people are just plain dumber than others...  ac_biggrin



On an alcohol related topic, you Asians may be lucky, since many of you cannot really drink like the other races can to begin with, due to genetics... And since the mutation is a genetic issue, there is no cure for this alcohol "flush reaction."

Do other races get flush or is only East Asians?



Sorry for my ignorance.

 ac_blush

[Renee]

I have no doubt that these genes play a role in other addictions as well...  Excessive gambling, excessive eating, excessive drug use, etc.  I believe they are all closely related.



To an obese person, to just "stop eating" may have a similar result as telling a boozer to just "stop drinking" or the gambler to just "stop gambling."

Genetics does not force the alcohol or the food into your body, Mel.



A genetic predisposition makes it easier for an individual to become addicted but the actual act of facilitating the addiction starts with a conscience decision to drink, take drugs, or over eat. Genetics is only one part of the problem and it's actually a secondary problem. How a person responds to his or her environment and emotions are the main catalyst factors. If genetics was the main determining factor in addiction then getting sober, becoming drug free or losing weight would be all but impossible. Since we both know that's bullshit it kinda makes your argument bullshit as well.

[Mel Gibson]

Do other races get flush or is only East Asians?



Sorry for my ignorance.

 ac_blush

Seems to have originated with the Han Chinese, so it would have started with that particular race, and then passed on genetically to their offspring.  So, I suppose it wouldn't be impossible to find this in non-Asians, but realistically it is an Asian genetic mutation, for all intents and purposes...

[Anonymous]

I have no doubt that these genes play a role in other addictions as well...  Excessive gambling, excessive eating, excessive drug use, etc.  I believe they are all closely related.



To an obese person, to just "stop eating" may have a similar result as telling a boozer to just "stop drinking" or the gambler to just "stop gambling."

Genetics does not force the alcohol or the food into your body, Mel.



A genetic predisposition makes it easier for an individual to become addicted but the actual act of facilitating the addiction starts with a conscience decision to drink, take drugs, or over eat. Genetics is only one part of the problem and it's actually a secondary problem. How a person responds to his or her environment and emotions are the main catalyst factors. If genetics was the main determining factor in addiction then getting sober, becoming drug free or losing weight would be all but impossible. Since we both know that's bullshit it kinda makes your argument bullshit as well.

I don't doubt anything in your post Renee..



But I still think some of what Mel Gibson has said is true..



If a person  knows that alcoholism runs in their family would it not be wise to avoid alcohol entirely?

[Mel Gibson]

A genetic predisposition makes it easier for an individual to become addicted but the actual act of facilitating the addiction starts with a conscience decision to drink, take drugs, or over eat. Genetics is only one part of the problem and it's actually a secondary problem. How a person responds to his or her environment and emotions are the main catalyst factors. If genetics was the main determining factor in addiction then getting sober, becoming drug free or losing weight would be all but impossible. Since we both know that's bullshit it kinda makes your argument bullshit as well.

Here is where I disagree.  People don't "become" addicted.  These people are addicted, per se, from birth.



Again, I believe genetics plays more of a factor than environment, and many Shrinks are now starting to accept this fact as well...



And for many, becoming drug free, or losing weight, is all but impossible.  We may see some success stories, but for those, there are many more failures.

[Anonymous]

A genetic predisposition makes it easier for an individual to become addicted but the actual act of facilitating the addiction starts with a conscience decision to drink, take drugs, or over eat. Genetics is only one part of the problem and it's actually a secondary problem. How a person responds to his or her environment and emotions are the main catalyst factors. If genetics was the main determining factor in addiction then getting sober, becoming drug free or losing weight would be all but impossible. Since we both know that's bullshit it kinda makes your argument bullshit as well.

Here is where I disagree.  People don't "become" addicted.  These people are addicted, per se, from birth.



Again, I believe genetics plays more of a factor than environment, and many Shrinks are now starting to accept this fact as well...



And for many, becoming drug free, or losing weight, is all but impossible.  We may see some success stories, but for those, there are many more failures.

I feel you are right Mel Gibson, but so is Renee.

[Mel Gibson]

The problem is, current limits with Psychology...  We try to modify behaviour, but this often cannot be done.  A serial killer does not like to spend life in solitary confinement once caught, but he must be there since his behaviour cannot be stopped.  This is a similar.



We cannot "fix" his behaviour.  This is where Psychology is limited.  Ideally, we would want to "fix" his genetic profile, so that he no longer desires to kill.  Kind of a strange example, but nonetheless it is relevant...

[Renee]

A genetic predisposition makes it easier for an individual to become addicted but the actual act of facilitating the addiction starts with a conscience decision to drink, take drugs, or over eat. Genetics is only one part of the problem and it's actually a secondary problem. How a person responds to his or her environment and emotions are the main catalyst factors. If genetics was the main determining factor in addiction then getting sober, becoming drug free or losing weight would be all but impossible. Since we both know that's bullshit it kinda makes your argument bullshit as well.

Here is where I disagree.  People don't "become" addicted.  These people are addicted, per se, from birth.



Again, I believe genetics plays more of a factor than environment, and many Shrinks are now starting to accept this fact as well...



And for many, becoming drug free, or losing weight, is all but impossible.  We may see some success stories, but for those, there are many more failures.

Many Shrinks might agree with you but I'm pretty sure the majority don't.

In any event most doctors don't see it as you do. Genetics only provides an easier pathway to addiction; the individual still makes the decision to become addicted. Control is up to us and I know this all too well because I as well as many members of may family have a predisposition toward morbid obesity. Those of us who don't want to end up as scooter bound monsters are able to control the situation through making a conscious effort to eat healthily, limit our caloric intake and exercise on a daily basis. Granted it probably takes more willpower to do so than the average but it can be done despite our genetics.



Genetics is used all too often as a convenient excuse to not make positive changes in your life. Self-improvement takes work; sometimes A LOT of work, it doesn't happen by itself.

[Mel Gibson]

Look into the "Minnesota Twin Study."



Very interesting study.



The Shrinks that disagreed, and even others that agreed with it, have a vested interest to sweep it under the rug.  The reason being?  They have a vested interest in a roster of current and new clients.  It pays their bills.



No conspiracy.  Simply put, Shrinks really don't want the public to know how limited their abilities really are.  They earn money 'fixing' people.  The truth is, many people cannot be 'fixed.'



This study shows that environment isn't as important as genetics are in determining what people 'become.'