Re: Retardation On Other Forums

[RW]

The whole idea that Henry Ford paid his workers high wages so they could afford a new Ford is nothing but propaganda. The following article in Forbes explains that the model many proponents of raising the minimum wage are using doesn't work.

Does it change the point Renee?  What good are selling products and services that no one can afford?  Maybe one of you "righties" can challenge the principle itself.

[RW]

it is a puzzlement to me why the left has this hate on for walmart.......it is the largest private employer in the world...it provides employment for the lowest rungs of society, a lot of whom are unemployable in practically any other field......hundreds of thousands of low educated blacks and trailer trash are employed there.....not to mention the thousands of dollars low income families are able to save annually by shopping there....it's kinda like their hate for pipelines.....no rhyme or reason...just blind obedience to some myth debunked long ago......

Let's see:



It decimates small businesses and takes money out of local economies.

Gender discrimination.

Union busting.

Bullying suppliers.

[Anonymous]

The whole idea that Henry Ford paid his workers high wages so they could afford a new Ford is nothing but propaganda. The following article in Forbes explains that the model many proponents of raising the minimum wage are using doesn't work.

Does it change the point Renee?  What good are selling products and services that no one can afford?  Maybe one of you "righties" can challenge the principle itself.

Yes, it does change Pat's point. He's claiming Ford was Santa Claus unlike what he thinks today's capitalists were like, but the reality was very different. Ford could just as easily been a soldier of Ernst Rohm's brown shirts in 1933. He was a fucking thug.



What products and services that nobody can afford? That's where your argument is lost. The Target's and Wally World's have made products readily available to the masses. They should be thanked for making life affordable, not unfairly scorned.

[Anonymous]

It decimates small businesses and takes money out of local economies.

Walmart is opening some stores in DC in blighted neighborhoods where crime and disorder discourage business and leave residents starved for corporate attention. They have eagerly been reviving desolate corners of the city.



It seems to me they are saving dying communities.

Gender discrimination.

Really? Walmart is likelier to discriminate against women(or different races) than some independent, Muslim-owned grocer? I find that very difficult to believe.

Union busting.

What small business owner with razor thin profit margins would welcome a union? I can give you a list of small buisinesses in Millwoods if you think you can organize them all. Walmart is no different from smaller businesses in that regard.

Bullying suppliers

What they do is no different than Hutterite colonies when they buy in bulk. As far as that goes, the former IGA stores did much the same, but on a smaller scale though.

[Renee]

"It should be obvious that this story doesn't work: Boeing would most certainly be in trouble if they had to pay their workers sufficient to afford a new jetliner. It's also obviously true that you want every other employer to be paying their workers sufficient that they can afford your products: but that's very much not the same as claiming that Ford should pay his workers so that they can afford Fords."

You're comparing being able to afford a car to being able to afford a jetliner? Jets cost hundreds of millions!

Obviously the concept is too complex for you, nitwit. The point the article is making is that companies cannot always pay their employees enough to purchase the products that they make. The idea that Henry Ford purposely paid his workers enough so that they could buy his product is bullshit because the business model doesn't work.



This illustrates the exact problem with you numbnuts, leftard, dreamers. You don't have clue one how a business actually works. You have this idiotic aversion to reality and you actually think that a business can survive running in the red indefinitely so that it can satisfy your fantasy land version of economics. What, do think corporations can be run like a government FFS? ac_toofunny

[Renee]

The whole idea that Henry Ford paid his workers high wages so they could afford a new Ford is nothing but propaganda. The following article in Forbes explains that the model many proponents of raising the minimum wage are using doesn't work.

Does it change the point Renee?  What good are selling products and services that no one can afford?  Maybe one of you "righties" can challenge the principle itself.

Yes, it does change Pat's point. He's claiming Ford was Santa Claus unlike what he thinks today's capitalists were like, but the reality was very different. Ford could just as easily been a soldier of Ernst Rohm's brown shirts in 1933. He was a fucking thug.



What products and services that nobody can afford? That's where your argument is lost. The Target's and Wally World's have made products readily available to the masses. They should be thanked for making life affordable, not unfairly scorned.

Yeah, I'm waiting for one of those lefty clowns to start praising Adolf Hitler because his economic policies pulled post WWI Germany out of the toilet and gave the German people some extra spending money.  ac_toofunny



Hypocrisy is the corner stone of their incredibly stupid bleeding heart ideology.  ac_dunno

[Romero]

"It should be obvious that this story doesn't work: Boeing would most certainly be in trouble if they had to pay their workers sufficient to afford a new jetliner. It's also obviously true that you want every other employer to be paying their workers sufficient that they can afford your products: but that's very much not the same as claiming that Ford should pay his workers so that they can afford Fords."

You're comparing being able to afford a car to being able to afford a jetliner? Jets cost hundreds of millions!

Obviously the concept is too complex for you, nitwit.

There's nothing complex about it. It's a really silly example.



The fact is autoworkers can afford to buy the products they make, and that does make automakers more sales. There's no sense in comparing them to Boeing workers. There's a slight difference between a $20,000 car and a $200 million jetliner.

[Anonymous]

[



The fact is autoworkers can afford to buy the products they make, and that does make automakers more sales. There's no sense in comparing them to Boeing workers. There's a slight difference between a $20,000 car and a $200 million jetliner.

Just like Walmart employees can afford to buy the products they sell. Woo hoo, go economies of scale. ac_dance

[Romero]

When adjusted for inflation, the US federal minimum wage is $2 less today than it was in 1968. That's not right. The economy would be doing much better if people could afford to buy and save more.



Walmart would still make billions and even see a rise in revenues.



Walmart employees require billions in government assistance every year. Why should taxpayers have to pay for it when Walmart can raise the minimum wage and still make billions?

[Anonymous]

When adjusted for inflation, the US federal minimum wage is $2 less today than it was in 1968. That's not right. The economy would be doing much better if people could afford to buy and save more.



Walmart would still make billions and even see a rise in revenues.



Walmart employees require billions in government assistance every year. Why should taxpayers have to pay for it when Walmart can raise the minimum wage and still make billions?

Taxes/fees were lower 46 years ago too.



How much more would people working at Walmart require if they had no job at all? How much would they need if they got a job at an East Indian grocer for example instead of Walmart. Walmart offers health insurance and career growth unlike other businesses selling the same wares. Seems they are saving taxpayers money now aren't they? They are certainly making life more affordable for lower income people.

[Romero]

Walmart has no problem making money in Washington state where the minimum wage is $9.32/hour. Anyway, twenty states including red states have waited more than long enough:

On January 1, 20 states will raise their minimum wages, while one — New York — will increase its wage on Wednesday.



That means that all told, 3.1 million American workers will ring in the New Year with a pay raise.



The increases in the New Year will mean that in 2015, the majority of states — 29 and Washington, DC — will have minimum wages set above the federal level of $7.25 an hour. They will also mean that 60 percent of all American workers will live in a state with a higher minimum wage.



Minimum wage increases are having a big impact, even if action at the federal level has stalled multiple times. Walmart, the country's largest employer and one notorious for low pay, will have to raise its wages in about a third of its stores thanks to the minimum wage increases at the start of the year. Higher wages also put more money into low-wage workers' pockets, alleviating poverty while boosting economic growth when they go out and spend it.



And while opponents of a higher wage often claim that it will kill jobs, that hasn't played out in reality. The states that raised their wages on January 1 of 2014 had experienced faster job growth than those that didn't as of midyear. Washington has had the highest minimum wage for 15 years and has seen steady, above-average job growth. Overall, economists who studied state-level wage increases over two decades didn't find any evidence that they impacted jobs.



http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2014/12/31/3607346/new-years-minimum-wage/">//http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2014/12/31/3607346/new-years-minimum-wage/

I guarantee that companies will do just fine if not better!

[cc]

Sorry. I cannot take your guarantee without the money being held in escrow



by MY attorney

[Obvious Li]

Walmart has no problem making money in Washington state where the minimum wage is $9.32/hour. Anyway, twenty states including red states have waited more than long enough:

On January 1, 20 states will raise their minimum wages, while one — New York — will increase its wage on Wednesday.



That means that all told, 3.1 million American workers will ring in the New Year with a pay raise.



The increases in the New Year will mean that in 2015, the majority of states — 29 and Washington, DC — will have minimum wages set above the federal level of $7.25 an hour. They will also mean that 60 percent of all American workers will live in a state with a higher minimum wage.



Minimum wage increases are having a big impact, even if action at the federal level has stalled multiple times. Walmart, the country's largest employer and one notorious for low pay, will have to raise its wages in about a third of its stores thanks to the minimum wage increases at the start of the year. Higher wages also put more money into low-wage workers' pockets, alleviating poverty while boosting economic growth when they go out and spend it.



And while opponents of a higher wage often claim that it will kill jobs, that hasn't played out in reality. The states that raised their wages on January 1 of 2014 had experienced faster job growth than those that didn't as of midyear. Washington has had the highest minimum wage for 15 years and has seen steady, above-average job growth. Overall, economists who studied state-level wage increases over two decades didn't find any evidence that they impacted jobs.



http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2014/12/31/3607346/new-years-minimum-wage/">//http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2014/12/31/3607346/new-years-minimum-wage/

I guarantee that companies will do just fine if not better!

of course some of the companies will survive an increase in minimum wage...but that increase will be paid for by the employees in the form of higher productivity and a million other forms of employee compensation for the increase cost......higher prices to the consumer and downward pressure on the suppliers ...businesses that were marginal will not hire that extra employee they were thinking about or spend for an expansion......and please homy.....stop with the meaningless statistical bullshit...an increase in minimum wage only affects companies that pay minimum wage.....which is not very many any more

[Anonymous]

Walmart has no problem making money in Washington state where the minimum wage is $9.32/hour. Anyway, twenty states including red states have waited more than long enough:

I guarantee that companies will do just fine if not better!

Romero, pry yourself away from ideological sites like TP and listen to people who actually operate small businesses. TP doesn't give a shit if retailers succeed or fail.



Money will be made no matter what the wage for unskilled labour. It doesn't matter how big the retailer is either. HOWEVER, productivity MUST increase.

[RW]

of course some of the companies will survive an increase in minimum wage...but that increase will be paid for by the employees in the form of higher productivity and a million other forms of employee compensation for the increase cost......higher prices to the consumer and downward pressure on the suppliers ...businesses that were marginal will not hire that extra employee they were thinking about or spend for an expansion......and please homy.....stop with the meaningless statistical bullshit...an increase in minimum wage only affects companies that pay minimum wage.....which is not very many any more

They do that without increases to minimum wage.