Re: Retardation On Other Forums

[Odinson]

You can be a Christian and be a member of churches like the Eastern Orthodox, but I do not consider mainline protestant, Catholic or Eastern Orthodox churches Christian.

You do know that the vatican is the one whom is responsible for all this stuff? The catholic church.

Responsible for what stuff Odie?

You said that catholic church is not christian. They are as christian as it can be.

[Anonymous]

You do know that the vatican is the one whom is responsible for all this stuff? The catholic church.

Responsible for what stuff Odie?

You said that catholic church is not christian. They are as christian as it can be.

The Catholic church and most protestant churches are not Christian..



They don't preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ or evangelize.

[Odinson]

Responsible for what stuff Odie?

You said that catholic church is not christian. They are as christian as it can be.

The Catholic church and most protestant churches are not Christian..



They don't preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ or evangelize.

Oh yes they do. :D Have heard those kazillion times.

[Anonymous]

You said that catholic church is not christian. They are as christian as it can be.

The Catholic church and most protestant churches are not Christian..



They don't preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ or evangelize.

Oh yes they do. :D Have heard those kazillion times.

Christianity is not defined by simply saying that as long as you believe in Jesus, you're a Christian..



There are essential doctrines and if any of those essential doctrines are violated, then a church would only appear to be Christian but not really be Christian..



The bible tells us the following:



1. There is only one God and you are to serve no other gods (Exodus 20:3; Isaiah 43:10; 44:6,8).

2. Jesus is both God and man (John 1:1,14; 8:24; Col. 2:9; 1 John 4:1-4).

3. Jesus rose from the dead physically (John 2:19-21; 1 Cor. 15:14).

4. Salvation is by grace through faith (Rom. 5:1; Eph. 2:8-9; Gal. 3:1-2; 5:1-4).

5. The gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus according to the scriptures (1 Cor. 15:1-4; Gal. 1:8-9).

6. God is a Trinity (Matt. 28:19; 1 Cor. 12:4-6; 2 Cor. 13:14).

7. Jesus was born of the virgin Mary (Matt. 1:25).



Someone who is a true Christian will believe these things and not violate them..  



Roman Catholicism violates two of them (#1 and #4)..



Its practice of promoting Mary (and the Saints) to the level of God-like capabilities, they break the commandment to have no other gods before the true and living God..



Also, Catholicism violates the biblical doctrine of salvation by grace through faith alone..

 

Paul the apostle, for example, tells us in Romans 4:5, "But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness.."  



But Roman Catholicism denies that and says, "...so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments.."



So, even though Roman Catholicism claims to be Christian and that it is the one true church, it violates the essentials of the Christian faith..

 

It goes beyond what is written in God's word (1 Cor. 4:6)..  



It denies the sole and true sovereignty of the living God by promoting prayer to and the worship of Mary..

 

Also, it denies justification by faith alone in Christ alone..  



It is not a Christian church.

[Obvious Li]

fash...........i sorta agree with you, particularly as related to the catholic church.....they have twisted the concept of faith/redemption/justification/sanctification until it is unrecognizable, however i must correct you on one point about salvation and who gets saved:

i quote acts 16:

"Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas, And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, thee and thy house.



i wont get into the whole book of James and sanctification.....just to say some of those unchristian catholics and protestants you mentioned may indeed be christians depending on what they believe.....just sayin

[Anonymous]

fash...........i sorta agree with you, particularly as related to the catholic church.....they have twisted the concept of faith/redemption/justification/sanctification until it is unrecognizable, however i must correct you on one point about salvation and who gets saved:

i quote acts 16:

"Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas, And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, thee and thy house.



i wont get into the whole book of James and sanctification.....just to say some of those unchristian catholics and protestants you mentioned may indeed be christians depending on what they believe.....just sayin

Mr. Obvious Li I know that the Lord Jesus is the way, the truth and the life, John 14:6..



What I am saying is that Catholics and mainline protestants either no longer or never did preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ..



To be saved one must repent as well as believe..



Acts 17:30  "Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all everywhere should repent.



Luke 13:3 "except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish" .

[Obvious Li]

fash...........i sorta agree with you, particularly as related to the catholic church.....they have twisted the concept of faith/redemption/justification/sanctification until it is unrecognizable, however i must correct you on one point about salvation and who gets saved:

i quote acts 16:

"Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas, And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, thee and thy house.



i wont get into the whole book of James and sanctification.....just to say some of those unchristian catholics and protestants you mentioned may indeed be christians depending on what they believe.....just sayin

Mr. Obvious Li I know that the Lord Jesus is the way, the truth and the life, John 14:6..



What I am saying is that Catholics and mainline protestants either no longer or never did preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ..



To be saved one must repent as well as believe..



Acts 17:30  "Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all everywhere should repent.



Luke 13:3 "except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish" .

i agree that most mainline churches have lost their way and follow doctrine that is not liturgically correct......however i hesitate to condemn people based on a particular view of justification/sanctification....the bible clearly states that in order to be saved ALL you have to do is BELIEVE..it is a free gift from God....it gets real sticky when people interpret what BELIEVING actually means and what it requires a believer to do.........scholars will differ on the sanctification part....James "faith without works is dead" doctrine is not necessarily accepted literally by all.....

[Anonymous]

fash...........i sorta agree with you, particularly as related to the catholic church.....they have twisted the concept of faith/redemption/justification/sanctification until it is unrecognizable, however i must correct you on one point about salvation and who gets saved:

i quote acts 16:

"Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas, And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, thee and thy house.



i wont get into the whole book of James and sanctification.....just to say some of those unchristian catholics and protestants you mentioned may indeed be christians depending on what they believe.....just sayin

Mr. Obvious Li I know that the Lord Jesus is the way, the truth and the life, John 14:6..



What I am saying is that Catholics and mainline protestants either no longer or never did preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ..



To be saved one must repent as well as believe..



Acts 17:30  "Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all everywhere should repent.



Luke 13:3 "except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish" .

i agree that most mainline churches have lost their way and follow doctrine that is not liturgically correct......however i hesitate to condemn people based on a particular view of justification/sanctification....the bible clearly states that in order to be saved ALL you have to do is BELIEVE..it is a free gift from God....it gets real sticky when people interpret what BELIEVING actually means and what it requires a believer to do.........scholars will differ on the sanctification part....James "faith without works is dead" doctrine is not necessarily accepted literally by all.....

Whatever the case, all I know is that twat Vesna is NOT a Xtian. A nasty, self-righteous hypocritical old bigot for sure, but a XTian? Fuck no!!

[Odinson]

What is pope but a nasty, self-righteous hypocritical old bigot whom is so afraid of the place of which he preaches about that he has an armoured car and a bodyguard?



Priests are nothing but power hungry individuals whom set themselves above every1 else.



Helping is like feeling superior to the ones in need. You have the power to give. It´s like helping a kid reach the top shelf.



It´s never selfless.

[Anonymous]

What is pope but a nasty, self-righteous hypocritical old bigot whom is so afraid of the place of which he preaches about that he has an armoured car and a bodyguard?



Priests are nothing but power hungry individuals whom set themselves above every1 else.



Helping is like feeling superior to the ones in need. You have the power to give. It´s like helping a kid reach the top shelf.



It´s never selfless.

Also a mafia don. ;)

[Odinson]

What is pope but a nasty, self-righteous hypocritical old bigot whom is so afraid of the place of which he preaches about that he has an armoured car and a bodyguard?



Priests are nothing but power hungry individuals whom set themselves above every1 else.



Helping is like feeling superior to the ones in need. You have the power to give. It´s like helping a kid reach the top shelf.



It´s never selfless.

Also a mafia don. ;)

Italy is completely overrun by mafia.

[Anonymous]

fash...........i sorta agree with you, particularly as related to the catholic church.....they have twisted the concept of faith/redemption/justification/sanctification until it is unrecognizable, however i must correct you on one point about salvation and who gets saved:

i quote acts 16:

"Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas, And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, thee and thy house.



i wont get into the whole book of James and sanctification.....just to say some of those unchristian catholics and protestants you mentioned may indeed be christians depending on what they believe.....just sayin

Mr. Obvious Li I know that the Lord Jesus is the way, the truth and the life, John 14:6..



What I am saying is that Catholics and mainline protestants either no longer or never did preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ..



To be saved one must repent as well as believe..



Acts 17:30  "Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all everywhere should repent.



Luke 13:3 "except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish" .

i agree that most mainline churches have lost their way and follow doctrine that is not liturgically correct......however i hesitate to condemn people based on a particular view of justification/sanctification....the bible clearly states that in order to be saved ALL you have to do is BELIEVE..it is a free gift from God....it gets real sticky when people interpret what BELIEVING actually means and what it requires a believer to do.........scholars will differ on the sanctification part....James "faith without works is dead" doctrine is not necessarily accepted literally by all.....

So many people claim to "believe in Jesus" or to "love Jesus", but claiming to love Jesus Christ without obeying His commands is a lie:



John 14:21  Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him."

John 15:10  If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love.



1 John 5:3  This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,



1 John 1:6  If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth.



You cannot be saved unless you believe in the TRUTH about Jesus Christ..



2 Thessalonians 2:10  and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.

2 Thessalonians 2:13  But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God chose you to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth.



1 Timothy 2:4  who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.



I know you are probably saying but doesn't the Bible simply say 'Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved - you and your household?' (Acts 16:31) Isn't belief the only criteria there is for salvation?"

 

You are absolutely right, but look at this verse closely, one among many that talk about the terms of salvation and you will begin to get a better picture about what "belief" in Christ is really all about..



Let's look at a biblical example of someone who "believed" but was not saved..



Acts 8:9-24

Now for some time a man named Simon had practiced sorcery in the city and amazed all the people of Samaria. He boasted that he was someone great, and all the people, both high and low, gave him their attention and exclaimed, "This man is the divine power known as the Great Power." They followed him because he had amazed them for a long time with his magic. But when they believed Philip as he preached the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Simon himself believed and was baptized. And he followed Philip everywhere, astonished by the great signs and miracles he saw.



Peter answered: "May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money! You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God. Repent of this wickedness and pray to the Lord. Perhaps he will forgive you for having such a thought in your heart. For I see that you are full of bitterness and captive to sin." Then Simon answered, "Pray to the Lord for me so that nothing you have said may happen to me."



This is AFTER HE HAD BELIEVED!  He tells him to repent.

[Odinson]

Mr. Obvious Li I know that the Lord Jesus is the way, the truth and the life, John 14:6..



What I am saying is that Catholics and mainline protestants either no longer or never did preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ..



To be saved one must repent as well as believe..



Acts 17:30  "Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all everywhere should repent.



Luke 13:3 "except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish" .

i agree that most mainline churches have lost their way and follow doctrine that is not liturgically correct......however i hesitate to condemn people based on a particular view of justification/sanctification....the bible clearly states that in order to be saved ALL you have to do is BELIEVE..it is a free gift from God....it gets real sticky when people interpret what BELIEVING actually means and what it requires a believer to do.........scholars will differ on the sanctification part....James "faith without works is dead" doctrine is not necessarily accepted literally by all.....

So many people claim to "believe in Jesus" or to "love Jesus", but claiming to love Jesus Christ without obeying His commands is a lie:



John 14:21  Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him."

John 15:10  If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love.



1 John 5:3  This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,



1 John 1:6  If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth.



You cannot be saved unless you believe in the TRUTH about Jesus Christ..



2 Thessalonians 2:10  and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.

2 Thessalonians 2:13  But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God chose you to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth.



1 Timothy 2:4  who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.



I know you are probably saying but doesn't the Bible simply say 'Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved - you and your household?' (Acts 16:31) Isn't belief the only criteria there is for salvation?"

 

You are absolutely right, but look at this verse closely, one among many that talk about the terms of salvation and you will begin to get a better picture about what "belief" in Christ is really all about..



Let's look at a biblical example of someone who "believed" but was not saved..



Acts 8:9-24

Now for some time a man named Simon had practiced sorcery in the city and amazed all the people of Samaria. He boasted that he was someone great, and all the people, both high and low, gave him their attention and exclaimed, "This man is the divine power known as the Great Power." They followed him because he had amazed them for a long time with his magic. But when they believed Philip as he preached the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Simon himself believed and was baptized. And he followed Philip everywhere, astonished by the great signs and miracles he saw.



Peter answered: "May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money! You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God. Repent of this wickedness and pray to the Lord. Perhaps he will forgive you for having such a thought in your heart. For I see that you are full of bitterness and captive to sin." Then Simon answered, "Pray to the Lord for me so that nothing you have said may happen to me."



This is AFTER HE HAD BELIEVED!  He tells him to repent.

Selectively chosen words.. To make it more benevolent.

[Odinson]

You choose to understand the words differently?

[Anonymous]

You choose to understand the words differently?

Psalm 111:10

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom;

    all who follow his precepts have good understanding.

    To him belongs eternal praise.