Gaybook

[Anonymous]

Reread it. A couple times. Slowly, using all my words. It's very clear I said true converts won't be swayed into accepting secular values. They'd accept death and imprisonment first.

I read what you said.  It just had that creepy fundy feel to it is all.

 

 It is what it is. In other countries, Christians are forced to fellowship and study, and worship and pray in hiding. It won't be any different here if that day comes. A group that will take death over abandoning Christ, won't accept the forceful watering down of their church.  That Christian baker isn't going to back down. I understand that the secular world sees us as religious, that's it's mere beliefs we follow.  But it's not religion. It's a bond, a strong relationship with our God where we would rather die than give it up or dishonor it.

Would you kill for it? Falsely imprison, fine, or torture for it? Would you steal for it?

 Do evil in the sight of God, for God?  Is this a real question?

Have you missed all the killing God himself has done?!?!  Is it really that much of a stretch?

Well I did but I think that's because God, who or whatever that is, didn't do it.

 Oh no...He did. He wiped out everything on the planet in the flood.  He destroyed Sodom with fire and brimstone. He instructed Israel to slaughter all surrounding nations (pagans).  Gods wrath in the OT, was nothing to mess with lol.

Hush now my child.  We don't talk poorly of Isreal around here.  The A-rab dislikers get huffy.

 The Lord smacked them around up and down our time line like red headed step children. Lol. I have deep respect for Israel.

[RW]

And now the U.S. holds it to their breast.

[Anonymous]

Reread it. A couple times. Slowly, using all my words. It's very clear I said true converts won't be swayed into accepting secular values. They'd accept death and imprisonment first.

I read what you said.  It just had that creepy fundy feel to it is all.

   

 It is what it is. In other countries, Christians are forced to fellowship and study, and worship and pray in hiding. It won't be any different here if that day comes. A group that will take death over abandoning Christ, won't accept the forceful watering down of their church.  That Christian baker isn't going to back down. I understand that the secular world sees us as religious, that's it's mere beliefs we follow.  But it's not religion. It's a bond, a strong relationship with our God where we would rather die than give it up or dishonor it.

Would you kill for it? Falsely imprison, fine, or torture for it? Would you steal for it?

 Do evil in the sight of God, for God?  Is this a real question?

Have you missed all the killing God himself has done?!?!  Is it really that much of a stretch?

Well I did but I think that's because God, who or whatever that is, didn't do it.

 Oh no...He did. He wiped out everything on the planet in the flood.  He destroyed Sodom with fire and brimstone. He instructed Israel to slaughter all surrounding nations (pagans).  Gods wrath in the OT, was nothing to mess with lol.

Yeah and he turned Lot's wife into a pillar of salt, had Noah build an ark, parted the Red Sea and all that shit too.



Believe what you want it's your choice. If you draw spiritual strength from it then that's wonderful but don't wave it in my face.



BTW, where was the city of Sodom? Do we have any proof of it's existence other than Homo Bob being a probable ancestor of one of it's inhabitants?  



I know the alleged city of Troy and other once thought of as mythical places have been found but I don't recall any archaeological digs for the city of Sodom.

well, God wiped them off the map, like He said He was going to do. So it makes sense we would find almost nothing of them.

[Wulf]

Reread it. A couple times. Slowly, using all my words. It's very clear I said true converts won't be swayed into accepting secular values. They'd accept death and imprisonment first.

I read what you said.  It just had that creepy fundy feel to it is all.

You find it creepy that someone is willing to die or endure imprisonment for their beliefs? .......Interesting.



As I've said previously I'm not a religious individual but I can respect that kind of devotion to an idea or principle. That kind of resolve is not limited to religious belief and it has well served many a person for a variety of principles and issues. Just because you don't share belief in the context of it's application it doesn't make it creepy.

I am not a religious individual either. But if you join a church, synagogue or mosque, especially a fundamentalist one, then you are accepting their literal interpretations of the word.

But if they aren't doing anyone any harm; what's wrong with it? Only when these people start to interfere with society in detrimental ways is it a problem. Other than that, it is their choice to believe as they wish and it is not our place to judge.

That is what I was getting at. I understand fundamentalist places of worship hold a literal view. As I read this thread it seems that some people who are not religious are not willing to accept that. They want these places of worship to exchange their non religious values for what they perceive as dated ones. I don't do that. I don't care if their books say I am going to hell. But, if they want to cut my head off then I would be offended.

I don't care either because that's where I'm going. Besides, Hell sounds like a place that's a lot more interesting than heaven. I just hope I don't have to bunk with my ex-wife.

[Anonymous]

And now the U.S. holds it to their breast.

 Not so much anymore.

[Anonymous]

It's looking like Solomons Temple will be rebuilt, the third and final time, on the temple mount in my lifetime. And when that happens....I have to go see that with my own eyes.  Before the "abomination of desolation" sits in it.

[Wulf]

Reread it. A couple times. Slowly, using all my words. It's very clear I said true converts won't be swayed into accepting secular values. They'd accept death and imprisonment first.

I read what you said.  It just had that creepy fundy feel to it is all.

   

 It is what it is. In other countries, Christians are forced to fellowship and study, and worship and pray in hiding. It won't be any different here if that day comes. A group that will take death over abandoning Christ, won't accept the forceful watering down of their church.  That Christian baker isn't going to back down. I understand that the secular world sees us as religious, that's it's mere beliefs we follow.  But it's not religion. It's a bond, a strong relationship with our God where we would rather die than give it up or dishonor it.

Would you kill for it? Falsely imprison, fine, or torture for it? Would you steal for it?

 Do evil in the sight of God, for God?  Is this a real question?

Have you missed all the killing God himself has done?!?!  Is it really that much of a stretch?

Well I did but I think that's because God, who or whatever that is, didn't do it.

 Oh no...He did. He wiped out everything on the planet in the flood.  He destroyed Sodom with fire and brimstone. He instructed Israel to slaughter all surrounding nations (pagans).  Gods wrath in the OT, was nothing to mess with lol.

Yeah and he turned Lot's wife into a pillar of salt, had Noah build an ark, parted the Red Sea and all that shit too.



Believe what you want it's your choice. If you draw spiritual strength from it then that's wonderful but don't wave it in my face.



BTW, where was the city of Sodom? Do we have any proof of it's existence other than Homo Bob being a probable descendant of one of it's inhabitants?  



I know the alleged city of Troy and other once thought of as mythical places have been found but I don't recall any archaeological digs for the city of Sodom.

well, God wiped them off the map, like He said He was going to do. So it makes sense we would find almost nothing of them.

Oh that explains it.



But what purpose would utterly destroying the city serve? If no physical proof of it's destruction was left behind, what lesson to future generations would it's destruction provide? Ultimately over time the lack of physical evidence of it's destruction would relegate the event to myth which is exactly what many people believe it to be.



Seems to me that God made a mistake when he destroyed Sodom utterly. Are you trying to say God is fallible? I don't know if I could ever get behind a God that makes mistakes like that. One might just as well worship deities that exhibit human qualities such as any number of the ancient pagan Gods, if that is indeed the case.

[Anonymous]

But now you are judging God.  You are using your finite mind to judge an infinite being massively more intlligent and powerful than anything you can conceive of.  Thousands upon thousands of people throughout the ages have leaned upon Him.  His purpose cant be thwarted. There is enough evidence to support His word without violating the importance of faith.  People used to believe the earth was flat, and Isaiahs claim that it was round was proof that God was "fallible".  See how that turned out?  You may not see or understand God's purpose for some of the things he does...but as He said, "My thoughts are higher than your thoughts".

[Anonymous]

aiah 55:8-9New King James Version (NKJV)



8 "For My thoughts are not your thoughts,

Nor are your ways My ways," says the Lord.

9 "For as the heavens are higher than the earth,

So are My ways higher than your ways,

And My thoughts than your thoughts.

[Frood]

"My thoughts are higher than your thoughts".

I don't doubt that.  

[Wulf]

But now you are judging God.  You are using your finite mind to judge an infinite being massively more intlligent and powerful than anything you can conceive of.  Thousands upon thousands of people throughout the ages have leaned upon Him.  His purpose cant be thwarted. There is enough evidence to support His word without violating the importance of faith.  People used to believe the earth was flat, and Isaiahs claim that it was round was proof that God was "fallible".  See how that turned out?  You may not see or understand God's purpose for some of the things he does...but as He said, "My thoughts are higher than your thoughts".

Ah, so that's God's a boiler plate cover your ass statement. How convenient for God.  You do know that many of the pagan Gods had similar mindsets where their motives where their's and their's alone and being so, beyond the ken of mortal men? So would you agree that the Christian God and the pagan Gods that came before him or her or it have similarities? And if so, what makes the Christian God greater; perception in man's mind or is it something more tangible?  



I'm not busting balls here, I'm just trying to establish if you have stopped searching for the knowledge of your existence or are you completely content with the answers that the bible provides. It seems to me that once someone stops thinking, questioning, searching they become something less than human.

[Anonymous]

But now you are judging God.  You are using your finite mind to judge an infinite being massively more intlligent and powerful than anything you can conceive of.  Thousands upon thousands of people throughout the ages have leaned upon Him.  His purpose cant be thwarted. There is enough evidence to support His word without violating the importance of faith.  People used to believe the earth was flat, and Isaiahs claim that it was round was proof that God was "fallible".  See how that turned out?  You may not see or understand God's purpose for some of the things he does...but as He said, "My thoughts are higher than your thoughts".

Ah, so that's God's a boiler plate cover your ass statement. How convenient for God.  You do know that many of the pagan Gods had similar mindsets where their motives where their's and their's alone and being so, beyond the ken of mortal men? So would you agree that the Christian God and the pagan Gods that came before him or her or it have similarities? And if so, what makes the Christian God greater; perception in man's mind or is it something more tangible?  



I'm not busting balls here, I'm just trying to establish if you have stopped searching for the knowledge of your existence or are you completely content with the answers that the bible provides. It seems to me that once someone stops thinking, questioning, searching they become something less than human.

 Why are you thinking that God is somehow accountable to humans?  God doesn't need anything "convienant".   That was a statement of fact.  We don't posses the capabilities of understanding God's ways.  It's like an insect understanding our cognitive ability. It's simply not possible. We don't even fully understand God's creation, and we barely grasp the Trinity.  We can't do it. We are severely limited. You've gotta come to grips with that, before you even tackle scripture in a serious way.  Do you know, that God looks at us as we truly are, our naked core selves?   Every thought, every motive, is all laid out in His sight all at once?  That He is present in every single existing moment that is now, has been and will be?   Take a moment, and try to fathom living in a dimension with no time. Think about that. No time.  We can't even grasp His dwelling place. You think He needs to give us an excuse?  That He is accountable?   You know I actually fought religion, to the point of experiment with all kinds of different beliefs, including the occult.  I didn't just up and decide to be a Christain.  I had an experience with Him. If you actually study the science laid out in scripture about the workings of the planet and universe, it's hilarious watching it line up.  I don't know why nonbelievers think we just stop thinking and exploring simply because we have a structure to look at the world from. If anything, I think it's dangerous to just swallow everything the mainstream tells you no matter how lunatic and hair brained it sounds.  Contrary to popular belief, God encourages us to test His word.

[Wulf]

Okay, since you seem to be avoiding my questions, I'm losing my interest in continuing this conversation. No offense but I just get the feeling that no matter what you are asked you are going to hang your hat on God's supposedly unfathomable mysteries. That's fine and good but it's not conducive to any real understanding of God or humanity's relationship with him, her, or it.



Now if you don't mind, may I ask (if is not too terribly personal); what is your experience with God that makes you so devout in your belief that we cannot seek to understand his or her motives or existence? If we could find the answers we seek wouldn't that bring us closer to him?

[Anonymous]

Wulf, I am answering your questions, the best way they can be answered.   I'm a student of Theology Proper.  There is a Latin term we use that means "tremendous mystery".  There are things about God, you just can't understand entirely.  Could you dump the whole ocean in a coffee mug? Because that would be the same as putting the fullness of God into the human mind. The awe of it never stops.  This world tells you to break things down to understand them. But to understand God on the most basic level, you can't reduce Him to our level, you have to let Him raise you to His. Understand what I'm sayin?  There is an awesome quote regarding this..  lemme go find it, then I'll tell you how I came to know the Lord.  Mind you, I'm not saying we can't get to know Him at all....I'm saying there are things about Him that we can never understand.

[Anonymous]

"It has been said by some one that 'the proper study of mankind is man.' I will not oppose the idea, but I believe it is equally true that the proper study of God's elect is God; the proper study of a Christian is the Godhead. The highest science, the loftiest speculation, the mightiest philosophy, which can ever engage the attention of a child of God, is the name, the nature, the person, the work, the doings, and the existence of the great God whom he calls his Father. There is something exceedingly improving to the mind in a contemplation of the Divinity. It is a subject so vast, that all our thoughts are lost in its immensity; so deep, that our pride is drowned in its infinity. ... No subject of contemplation will tend more to humble the mind, than thoughts of God. ... But while the subject humbles the mind it also expands it. He who often thinks of God, will have a larger mind than the man who simply plods around this narrow globe. ... the most excellent study for expanding the soul, is the science of Christ, and him crucified, and the knowledge of the Godhead in the glorious Trinity. Nothing will so enlarge the intellect, nothing so magnify the whole soul of man, as a devout, earnest, continued investigation of the great subject of the Deity. And, whilst humbling and expanding, this subject is eminently consolatary. Oh, there is, in contemplating Christ, a balm for every wound; in musing on the Father, there is a quietus for every grief; and in the influence of the Holy Ghost, there is a balsam for every sore. Would you lose your sorrows? Would you drown your cares? Then go, plunge yourself in the Godhead's deepest sea; be lost in his immensity; and you shall come forth as from a couch of rest, refreshed and invigorated. I know nothing which can so comfort the soul; so calm the swelling billows of grief and sorrow; so speak peace to the winds of trial, as a devout musing upon the subject of the Godhead" (from The Immutability of God, a sermon by C. H. Spurgeon,