Treatment for Pedophiles

[keeper]

I don't think Pedophiles can be rehabilitated. I cant imagine them moving next door to me and having small kids....



~~~Oh Keeper don't you worry, we were told he is totally rehabilitated~~~



Im with AZ on this!!

[Wulf]

They are already loose in society.  That's the point.  It's better they are loose in society with treatment than without.

Okay look at it this way; if you were a mental healthcare professional with direct knowledge that a pedophile was lose in society and because of this program, they were not reported. Then the said pedo molests a child. How would you feel? Would you want to take on that liability in the first place? Legally what are the ramifications for the healthcare professional? Seems to me that they would need to bare a certain amount of responsibility for what happens.  



The whole concept is crazy and has the potential to blow up in the faces of everyone involved. What good is having the knowledge of a pedophile loose in society while under treatment, if those who are in the most danger are not aware of them? For any potential victim it's exactly the same as not knowing and it's that the real issue? Is that really a good idea? First of all I'm with those who think that pedophiles cannot be treated reliably. There is something in their DNA that prevents treatment. Let's face it, behavioral therapy which what they use for pedos is worthless. It's little more than a glorified "just Say No to Sex with Children" campaign.



This nothing but the state and society dropping the ball.....again, because it KNOWINGLY puts one of societies most venerable demographics at risk while protecting the potential offender. Bad, bad, bad, idea no matter how you slice it.

[RW]

There is a difference between a pedophile and a child molester and that difference is an action.  Those seeking help do not want to offend.  They want help treating their disorder.



The actions of the patient are not on the therapist.  He or she is not responsible for what a patient does.



I just don't understand why you would want these very sick people running around in society untreated?  Explain why that is a better solution than them getting treatment.

[Frood]

I've always thought the same. But I have trouble with these people denying that their actions are vile and reprehensible. That is a hard point to accept.



If they are mentally ill, then it should be to the extent that they cannot discern right from wrong, and be aware that they are committing a crime.



I don't believe this to be the case, and so its hard to be merciful. Even harder for those who protect and conceal these reptiles.

There would be far more officially undiagnosed non offenders in the population than those actual offenders who make the headlines now or eventually down the line as their victims mature and speak out. I highly doubt any child has ever been born and their first memorable thought was "when I grow up, I want to have sex with children". There were environmental instances in the early development of such adults which triggered that illness of thought and the mixed messages society spits out about youth, beauty, innocence, adulthood, and legality also has some level of culpability for it.



This discussion is not about actual offenders. It's about those who are afraid they might have it in themselves to possibly offend and want help understanding such urges in order to heal themselves and arrive at a peace for everyone. Thoughts should never be persecuted. Actions should.

There is a difference between a pedophile and a child molester and that difference is an action.  Those seeking help do not want to offend.  They want help treating their disorder.



The actions of the patient are not on the therapist.  He or she is not responsible for what a patient does.



I just don't understand why you would want these very sick people running around in society untreated?  Explain why that is a better solution than them getting treatment.

That.

[Wulf]

There is a difference between a pedophile and a child molester and that difference is an action.  Those seeking help do not want to offend.  They want help treating their disorder.



The actions of the patient are not on the therapist.  He or she is not responsible for what a patient does.



I just don't understand why you would want these very sick people running around in society untreated?  Explain why that is a better solution than them getting treatment.

I'm sure those pedophiles seeking help don't want to offend, just as alcoholics seeking help don't want to get fucked up. Unfortunately what these people want and what happens in life, is not always the same.



I'm not saying that no treatment is the better solution, but I don't see the actual difference. No matter which way it goes the pedophile is still left unknown to his or her potential victims. It really matters not if a therapist knows because they are not the ones in potential danger. There isn't going to be a damn bit of difference to a victim and lets face it, it's the prevention of victims that's at the heart of the matter, the emotional distress or embarrassment of the pedophile be damned.



I know that the actions of the patient are not on the therapist in a legal sense but what about the moral sense? You haven't addressed that question. What is a therapist left with if their patient commits and act of pedophilia? Is he or she just supposed to brush off the shattered life of the victim with an "oh well" it's not my fault that the pedo went unidentified to the authorities? How many decent people could look themselves in the mirror if something happened, that could have been prevented through alerting the authorities?  It's not a good scenario for anyone involved, no matter how you look at it.



As for treatment;.....from what I can tell, treatment is only as effective as the patient want's it to be. Treatment for pedophiles or potential pedophiles really needs to be based on something more effective than the good intentions of the patient before you are going to sell me on it.

[Frood]

I'm sure those pedophiles seeking help don't want to offend, just as alcoholics seeking help don't want to get fucked up. Unfortunately what these people want and what happens in life, is not always the same.

Alcoholics already have an established addiction. Would be pedophiles don't.

[Wulf]

I'm sure those pedophiles seeking help don't want to offend, just as alcoholics seeking help don't want to get fucked up. Unfortunately what these people want and what happens in life, is not always the same.

Alcoholics already have an established addiction. Would be pedophiles don't.

What difference does that make? It's just semantics when they both have the potential to lose control and give in their "addiction".

[Frood]

One has cultivated and partook of their addiction, the other has refrained from entertaining notions beyond self derision and a desire to seek help. It's not semantics, it's all very logical.



Night, Wulfy.

[Wulf]

One has cultivated and partook of their addiction, the other has refrained from entertaining notions beyond self derision and a desire to seek help. It's not semantics, it's all very logical.



Night, Wulfy.

"Logical"? Really? I hate to break it to you but every junkie was once clean and his or her addiction was not exactly part of their life plan. I'm quite sure that every junkie or rummy out there was exposed extensively to how drugs and alcohol can destroy your life but it didn't stop them from acting upon the urge to partake. How they go from clean to addicted is the issue. It's not hard to apply that same reality to pedophiles.  



For pedophiles, I have to think that the desire to seek help is just a natural reaction to the fear of their own deviance. I highly doubt that the urge to commit an offence is removed or lessened because they are frightened or embarrassed enough to seek help. In fact I would be willing to bet that many pedophiles don't even give a crap that carnal knowledge of a child is horribly wrong when they are in the grips of their deviant sexual urge. It's probably only after they commit an offense do they actually give a shit and then its only because they fear exposure and prosecution.



Not to make light of this because it is a serious subject but the pedophile's thought process is probably similar to the guy that picks up the fat, ugly, drunk chick at closing time. When a combination of alcohol and sexual need is in control, any hole becomes a goal. For some people it simply doesn't matter how horrifying or reputation destroying the morning is shaping up to be, it's all about right here and right now.

[RW]

There is a difference between a pedophile and a child molester and that difference is an action.  Those seeking help do not want to offend.  They want help treating their disorder.



The actions of the patient are not on the therapist.  He or she is not responsible for what a patient does.



I just don't understand why you would want these very sick people running around in society untreated?  Explain why that is a better solution than them getting treatment.

I'm sure those pedophiles seeking help don't want to offend, just as alcoholics seeking help don't want to get fucked up. Unfortunately what these people want and what happens in life, is not always the same.



I'm not saying that no treatment is the better solution, but I don't see the actual difference. No matter which way it goes the pedophile is still left unknown to his or her potential victims. It really matters not if a therapist knows because they are not the ones in potential danger. There isn't going to be a damn bit of difference to a victim and lets face it, it's the prevention of victims that's at the heart of the matter, the emotional distress or embarrassment of the pedophile be damned.



I know that the actions of the patient are not on the therapist in a legal sense but what about the moral sense? You haven't addressed that question. What is a therapist left with if their patient commits and act of pedophilia? Is he or she just supposed to brush off the shattered life of the victim with an "oh well" it's not my fault that the pedo went unidentified to the authorities? How many decent people could look themselves in the mirror if something happened, that could have been prevented through alerting the authorities?  It's not a good scenario for anyone involved, no matter how you look at it.



As for treatment;.....from what I can tell, treatment is only as effective as the patient want's it to be. Treatment for pedophiles or potential pedophiles really needs to be based on something more effective than the good intentions of the patient before you are going to sell me on it.

These people want help.  They do not want there to be any victims to the point that they kill themselves.



I will answer your question but you still haven't answered mine - why is it better for them to go without treatment at all?  The treatment at the moment is Cognitive Behavioural Therapy and its better than nothing IMHO.



Therapists are trained professionals just like nurses, doctors, police officers, etc.  Bad shit happens on all of their watches including things that require they get counselling themselves.  I see this as no different than any other potentially dangerous mental issue they have to deal with.  I also don't see every therapist/doctor willing to take on and treat pedophiles and I respect those who choose not to.



As I said, there is a difference between pedophilia and child molestation.  To prosecute someone for having sexual thoughts about children is to prosecute for thought crime.  Is that right?

[RW]

One has cultivated and partook of their addiction, the other has refrained from entertaining notions beyond self derision and a desire to seek help. It's not semantics, it's all very logical.



Night, Wulfy.

"Logical"? Really? I hate to break it to you but every junkie was once clean and his or her addiction was not exactly part of their life plan. I'm quite sure that every junkie or rummy out there was exposed extensively to how drugs and alcohol can destroy your life but it didn't stop them from acting upon the urge to partake. How they go from clean to addicted is the issue. It's not hard to apply that same reality to pedophiles.  



For pedophiles, I have to think that the desire to seek help is just a natural reaction to the fear of their own deviance. I highly doubt that the urge to commit an offence is removed or lessened because they are frightened or embarrassed enough to seek help. In fact I would be willing to bet that many pedophiles don't even give a crap that carnal knowledge of a child is horribly wrong when they are in the grips of their deviant sexual urge. It's probably only after they commit an offense do they actually give a shit and then its only because they fear exposure and prosecution.



Not to make light of this because it is a serious subject but the pedophile's thought process is probably similar to the guy that picks up the fat, ugly, drunk chick at closing time. When a combination of alcohol and sexual need is in control, any hole becomes a goal. For some people it simply doesn't matter how horrifying or reputation destroying the morning is shaping up to be, it's all about right here and right now.

I could maybe agree with you if the suicide rates amount those who have never committed an offense weren't so damn high.  They have to live with the fact they have this compulsive attraction to children that disgusts even them.



I've read it multiple times and I believe it is a sexuality - heterosexual, homosexual, pedosexual.  It can be controlled but never "cured".  And no, that doesn't make it all right.  It will never be okay to have sex with children - EVER - but I do think pedophilia is not a choice.  The urges to act on it, however, is a choice and one that we owe it to children to prevent them from ever making.

[Anonymous]

ac_drinks



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Too quick Keeps. A dull razor slowly slicing off their balls would be better.

[Wulf]

There is a difference between a pedophile and a child molester and that difference is an action.  Those seeking help do not want to offend.  They want help treating their disorder.



The actions of the patient are not on the therapist.  He or she is not responsible for what a patient does.



I just don't understand why you would want these very sick people running around in society untreated?  Explain why that is a better solution than them getting treatment.

I'm sure those pedophiles seeking help don't want to offend, just as alcoholics seeking help don't want to get fucked up. Unfortunately what these people want and what happens in life, is not always the same.



I'm not saying that no treatment is the better solution, but I don't see the actual difference. No matter which way it goes the pedophile is still left unknown to his or her potential victims. It really matters not if a therapist knows because they are not the ones in potential danger. There isn't going to be a damn bit of difference to a victim and lets face it, it's the prevention of victims that's at the heart of the matter, the emotional distress or embarrassment of the pedophile be damned.



I know that the actions of the patient are not on the therapist in a legal sense but what about the moral sense? You haven't addressed that question. What is a therapist left with if their patient commits and act of pedophilia? Is he or she just supposed to brush off the shattered life of the victim with an "oh well" it's not my fault that the pedo went unidentified to the authorities? How many decent people could look themselves in the mirror if something happened, that could have been prevented through alerting the authorities?  It's not a good scenario for anyone involved, no matter how you look at it.



As for treatment;.....from what I can tell, treatment is only as effective as the patient want's it to be. Treatment for pedophiles or potential pedophiles really needs to be based on something more effective than the good intentions of the patient before you are going to sell me on it.

These people want help.  They do not want there to be any victims to the point that they kill themselves.



I will answer your question but you still haven't answered mine - why is it better for them to go without treatment at all?  The treatment at the moment is Cognitive Behavioural Therapy and its better than nothing IMHO.



Therapists are trained professionals just like nurses, doctors, police officers, etc.  Bad shit happens on all of their watches including things that require they get counselling themselves.  I see this as no different than any other potentially dangerous mental issue they have to deal with.  I also don't see every therapist/doctor willing to take on and treat pedophiles and I respect those who choose not to.



As I said, there is a difference between pedophilia and child molestation.  To prosecute someone for having sexual thoughts about children is to prosecute for thought crime.  Is that right?

I didn't say that it is better for them to go without treatment. I expressed doubt that behavioral therapy was effective enough to control the compulsive urge. I'm sure that for the truly committed it may work but I think for the majority it's probably akin to wishful thinking. I don't know what the best treatment is but I'm not willing to risk any child's potential welfare and safety on a premise of what amounts to "just say no".



As for prosecuting someone for their thoughts; that is a dangerous and disturbing concept regardless of the circumstance. Unfortunately in this circumstance there is the potential for harm to a random innocent life. Maybe we need to put people like this on a watched list so that the child welfare authorities can monitor them while they are submitting to treatment. I just don't believe that keeping it a total secret of this type benefits any potential victim. If you have been deemed a danger or think of yourself as a danger to a group of people in the general public then I'm not sure we have the moral or ethical grounds to keep it a secret.

[RW]

I understand what you are saying but it's treatment or no treatment.  Which is better?



The problem is, if they aren't afforded patient confidentiality, they don't come forward.  So what do you do?

[the shark hunter]

There is a difference between a pedophile and a child molester and that difference is an action.  Those seeking help do not want to offend.  They want help treating their disorder.



The actions of the patient are not on the therapist.  He or she is not responsible for what a patient does.



I just don't understand why you would want these very sick people running around in society untreated?  Explain why that is a better solution than them getting treatment.

... make up your mind, RW.  is it a sickness or their sexuality as you stated prior to the above post?  you can't have it both ways you know ...