The Great Abortion Debate

[Anonymous]

War is murdering.  I don't split hairs our alter definitions because other humans attempt to make something less evil than it is.  Abortion is the murdering of an innocent and helpless human.

It's not a human.  It's the start of a human.  You are torturing yourself and being wilfully ignorant to call the early stages of development by the same word as the final product.



You could choose to go closer to one of the endpoints and just keep calling them gametes right through until they're born, or turn 40, or whatever point.

 This is completely moot because an abortion cannot be given until the 7th week and on. So be 7 weeks, the little one even has fingers. A beating heart.  Didn't I already cover this?

[Anonymous]

If I got pregnant due to a rape, I will not be endangering myself by carrying to term a pregnancy when I am emotionally upset and distraught. Though my pregnancy was planned, events in my life at the time caused me to be very upset toward the last few months of my pregnancy and I nearly lost the baby and I nearly did not survive it. As a result, baby had to be born 2 months early, and I was in intensive care unit. How can any woman be healthy in mind, body, and spirit knowing she is carrying to term a pregnancy that they did not want? That is just wrong.

 Rape and extreme circumstances aside. People always throw this bullshit our there in defense of abortion when most the abortions performed are not even related to rape or a medical issue.  When you are sexual assulted, you typically get a plan b pill along with your rape kit. We all have a responsibility to take care of ourselves.  Are you going to sit at home for several weeks after a sexual assulted to see if you got pregnant from it, then peruse a further trauma like abortion? Unless you are being held hostage you need to seek medical treatment asap, a rape kit.  Not just for yourself but all the future potential victims including the fetus, which is also a victim.

[RW]

War is murdering.  I don't split hairs our alter definitions because other humans attempt to make something less evil than it is.  Abortion is the murdering of an innocent and helpless human.

It's not a human.  It's the start of a human.  You are torturing yourself and being wilfully ignorant to call the early stages of development by the same word as the final product.



You could choose to go closer to one of the endpoints and just keep calling them gametes right through until they're born, or turn 40, or whatever point.

 This is completely moot because an abortion cannot be given until the 7th week and on. So be 7 weeks, the little one even has fingers. A beating heart.  Didn't I already cover this?

Like many things you've said about abortion, the highlighted line is also not accurate.

[asal]

War is murdering.  I don't split hairs our alter definitions because other humans attempt to make something less evil than it is.  Abortion is the murdering of an innocent and helpless human.

It's not a human.  It's the start of a human.  You are torturing yourself and being wilfully ignorant to call the early stages of development by the same word as the final product.



You could choose to go closer to one of the endpoints and just keep calling them gametes right through until they're born, or turn 40, or whatever point.

The tissue growth that begins at conception is human. If it wasn't, the end result would be something else. To deny that fact is just shuffling the moral side of the argument under the rug.

It is human tissue growth.  Conceded.  Is it "helpless human" tissue growth?

[RW]

It isn't a pleasant act that's for sure.  I don't think it sits well with anyone.  I don't know why we pretend it does when someone says he/she is pro-choice.



Check yourself on the progress/lefty bullshit Wulf.

I'm sorry but those who can live with idea that terminating human life is a good thing are predominantly those that subscribe to progressive/liberal ideology. I don't think you will find many conservatives or even many moderates that are as okay with the concept of legalized abortion as you will in the liberal/progressive community.



Is that really too difficult for you to swallow?

Odd that the only person who has admitted to an abortion on this board strikes me as neither liberal or progressive.



Please don't let reality hit you in the ass on your way out dear.

Odd that that same person is so vehemently against abortion. If you bothered to read some of my previous posts you would realize that I'm not talking about those that have had abortions but those that think they are no big deal.



Anyone can make the decision to have one given their state of mind or perticular circumstance at the time. No can be the judge of what runs thru a desperate woman's mind during such a time. It's how you feel about doing it that makes the difference. Progressives will just say it's just a lump of tissue and move on while others will not be so cavalier about it. You should know and understand this by now.



I can appreciate that you, as a liberal don't like having the finger pointed at you but that's too bad. It's the left that pushes abortion and the far left that promotes it as something other than a last resort. That's simply reality.



I'd like to say to you, get your head out of your ass on this aspect of the issue but wouldn't be nice. But please don't try to argue that hot button social issues like abortion, DON'T fall along ideological lines. It would be very foolish.

It's funny when you look at statistics as to who is having these abortions that the left supposedly pushes it paints a different picture.



At no point have I said an abortion is no big deal.  I said it's not murder because dennotatively speaking, it's not.



Unlike most, if not all of you, I know what a developing fetus looks like at many weeks along the way, including early stages like 6 weeks.  I even have pictures.  Good luck identifying what is in the image as a human baby.  That is reality Wulf not Liberal posturing.

[RW]

If I got pregnant due to a rape, I will not be endangering myself by carrying to term a pregnancy when I am emotionally upset and distraught. Though my pregnancy was planned, events in my life at the time caused me to be very upset toward the last few months of my pregnancy and I nearly lost the baby and I nearly did not survive it. As a result, baby had to be born 2 months early, and I was in intensive care unit. How can any woman be healthy in mind, body, and spirit knowing she is carrying to term a pregnancy that they did not want? That is just wrong.

 Rape and extreme circumstances aside. People always throw this bullshit our there in defense of abortion when most the abortions performed are not even related to rape or a medical issue.  When you are sexual assulted, you typically get a plan b pill along with your rape kit. We all have a responsibility to take care of ourselves.  Are you going to sit at home for several weeks after a sexual assulted to see if you got pregnant from it, then peruse a further trauma like abortion? Unless you are being held hostage you need to seek medical treatment asap, a rape kit.  Not just for yourself but all the future potential victims including the fetus, which is also a victim.

Many people who have abortions, statistically speaking, live below the poverty line.

[RW]

War is murdering.  I don't split hairs our alter definitions because other humans attempt to make something less evil than it is.  Abortion is the murdering of an innocent and helpless human.

It's not a human.  It's the start of a human.  You are torturing yourself and being wilfully ignorant to call the early stages of development by the same word as the final product.



You could choose to go closer to one of the endpoints and just keep calling them gametes right through until they're born, or turn 40, or whatever point.

"All things turtle are turtle." - Emerson

[Romero]

Really Romero?  Wouldn't it be extremely difficult to get numbers of abortions in countries where it is illegal?  If so, where do such statistics come from?  Back alleys?  Coat hook sales?  Stairwell accidents?

There are expert studies and surveys.

Nearly half of all abortions worldwide are unsafe, and nearly all unsafe abortions (98%) occur in developing countries. In the developing world, 56% of all abortions are unsafe, compared with just 6% in the developed world.



Since 2003, the number of abortions fell by 600,000 in the developed world but increased by 2.8 million in the developing world. In 2008, six million abortions were performed in developed countries and 38 million in developing countries, a disparity that largely reflects population distribution.



Highly restrictive abortion laws are not associated with lower abortion rates. For example, the abortion rate is 29 per 1,000 women of childbearing age in Africa and 32 per 1,000 in Latin America—regions in which abortion is illegal under most circumstances in the majority of countries. The rate is 12 per 1,000 in Western Europe, where abortion is generally permitted on broad grounds.



http://www.guttmacher.org/graphics/2012/01/17/AWW-table.gif">



http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_IAW.html">//http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_IAW.html

[Romero]

It's a sick mentally that all progressive must adhere to so that they can justify the act of abortion. Abortion, no matter where it is done or under whatever circumstance, legal or not, is an unsavory, act of barbarity. Anyone with an ounce of a conscience or morality knows this. Even if you believe it to be a women's right to choose, morality dictates that you have to recognize that it is a heinous act.

Is Dove a murderer? If women have abortions in cases of rape and incest, is it murder?

[Romero]

When you are sexual assulted, you typically get a plan b pill along with your rape kit. We all have a responsibility to take care of ourselves.

Being a rape victim has never been easier!



Most victims don't report. Some victims aren't even sure if they've been raped. They may have been drugged.



If a rape victim does get an abortion, is she a murderer?

[RW]

Really Romero?  Wouldn't it be extremely difficult to get numbers of abortions in countries where it is illegal?  If so, where do such statistics come from?  Back alleys?  Coat hook sales?  Stairwell accidents?

There are expert studies and surveys.

Nearly half of all abortions worldwide are unsafe, and nearly all unsafe abortions (98%) occur in developing countries. In the developing world, 56% of all abortions are unsafe, compared with just 6% in the developed world.



Since 2003, the number of abortions fell by 600,000 in the developed world but increased by 2.8 million in the developing world. In 2008, six million abortions were performed in developed countries and 38 million in developing countries, a disparity that largely reflects population distribution.



Highly restrictive abortion laws are not associated with lower abortion rates. For example, the abortion rate is 29 per 1,000 women of childbearing age in Africa and 32 per 1,000 in Latin America—regions in which abortion is illegal under most circumstances in the majority of countries. The rate is 12 per 1,000 in Western Europe, where abortion is generally permitted on broad grounds.



http://www.guttmacher.org/graphics/2012/01/17/AWW-table.gif">



http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_IAW.html">//http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_IAW.html

"Estimates" being the operative.

[cc]

Sorry, but duh Q



There is no way to calculate anything in underdeveloped countries



Pull data out of one's ass to serve one's purposes, sure - Have even a starting point to establish anything meaningful, not a chance



 think

[Romero]

The Lancet is one of the world's most prestigious medical journals.



Women don't stop having abortions when it's illegal.



There is less access to contraception where abortion is restricted. More unintended pregnancies. They're called developed and undeveloped countries for a reason.

[RW]

Estimates in this case is another word for "made up".

[Anonymous]

Estimates in this case is another word for "made up".

yep