The Great Abortion Debate

[cc]

Who the hell does this mere male think he is. He says he doesn't believe in god while at the same time thinking he is god



I'm out of this thread if he / it  is involved



in fact maybe the site.



Is it a mod here?

[RW]

It's kind of gross it?  Throwing surveys at women who have experienced what he can only read about.



He is no longer a mod and I can't believe a "mere male" would cause a woman like you to jump ship.

[asal]

It all matters. Life is sacred. There is a way to kill for food and not waste. I'm very pro life, my views on that aren't movable and not popular.

We disagree - but I won't get heavy into it*  ac_smile



I just want to say that something that impressed me as an advantage of abortion for society is that children that wouldn't be properly looked after - that would become criminals from being unloved/being born into a crappy situation/being influenced to be criminals have not been born thanks to abortion.  The evidence of that is indirect from New York crime rate going down a few decades after Rowe vs Wade (not my concept - I got it from the documentary "Freakonomics" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1152822/">//http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1152822/).



*Dove, I don't believe that the being that is aborted is a person or that it has feelings.  We might disagree on this point, and my callousness might be rough.  In real life I would never say these things because these kinds of opinions ruin people's friendships.

 I want you to look at how, since Roe vs Wade was done to the US, we have declined with that instead of improved. I mean come on. Maybe in theory but reality has told a very different story, hasn't it?   And if you are living in a society that looks to abortion as a solution to social ills....wtf, does that about the state of humanity?

We aren't in a society that looks to abortion as a solution to social ills.  Incidentally, the availability of abortion has prevented the births of criminals, amongst numerous other benefits.



Where abortion is not legal ... women suffer, I'll just say that, women suffer.  In Brazil, someone whose story I know, this girl got pregnant four (4) times.  Knowing about how she got pregnant did not stop her from continuing to have unprotected sex.  She had unprotected sex for several reasons - including the prohibitive cost of birth control in her case.  Because Brazil does not allow abortions (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Brazil">//https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Brazil) - she had someone kick her in the stomach and throw her down stairs, and she took other kinds of medication that were known to cause abortions.  Those pregnancies happened within a few years - I don't know how she's doing now.

 

Did you really just say abortion prevents criminals from being born?

Yes I did.  It did prevent criminals from being born.  That's the premise.  There are numerous more benefits to society also.

 And women still suffer in countries where it's legal.

True.

 Seems like not getting pregnant is more of a solution.

True.  It doesn't always happen that way.  This is a complete assumption, but it feels true that most women who are able to avoid being pregnant, avoid it (with abstinence and birth control).  There are many individuals out in the world living their individual lives.  Some of the women are able to prevent pregnancy - some can't afford birth control, some can't avoid sex even if they wanted to.  There are many individual stories.

[cc]

Good that he's not a mod. That makes me feel a bit more comfortable here  .. but ...



If he every becomes one, please give me a heads up in advance

[Romero]

You do realise Romero that your link says 95% of women felt relief.  What did the other 5% feel?  Did they feel the same way Dove felt/feels?  Her personal and anecdotal accounts don't make her a liar and actually fall within your "proof that she's lying" cut and paste survey results.  



She's not endangering anyone but you are being a jackass.



You don't need to be a doctor or some kind of professional to console someone.  That statement is ridiculous.



Does it feel good to beat up on a woman who had an abortion and now regrets doing it and wants to save other women the same misery?  Do women not deserve to know what those who didn't feel "relief" actually felt?  



Don't worry about us Catholics.  We use condoms for "disease prevention".

If her job is to console people, then her job is to tell the truth. Telling lies about women's health will endanger them. I can only imagine what other myths she's telling them. If she's going to have a personal bias, then she best leave it to professionals who aren't biased and will give the honest truth.

[Romero]

Who the hell does this mere male think he is. He says he doesn't believe in god while at the same time thinking he is god



I'm out of this thread if he / it  is involved



in fact maybe the site.



Is it a mod here?

Are you just going to sit around being the thought police or are you finally going to have something to say?

[cc]

point made!!





To real people here: Let's get down to the core issue on this subject



This whole issue really comes down to one thing - Does one believe a fetus is a "human life" or "person" -  or not?



Everything else a person feels about the process or argues about it is driven by that and that alone.



Thus for all parties "meaningful" debate or discussion between these 2 opposing positions is impossible.



That's why I "generally" try to stay out of discussions on the topic.



However -  If some clown starts stating personal opinion claims as though they are facts, hurling personal accusations and personal put-downs and  calling people liars when disagreed with,  quoting "selective" stats of convenience, quoting 3rd world stats which by definition have no meaning, playing god etc. I may call him on it.

[asal]

I feel a foetus is not a person.



(edited - good morning)

[cc]

I did not say it well. Obviously it is a life but to many it  means "human" and / or "person" was my point.



Let me correct / redefine "life" as "human" or "person" - Will correct previous post for clarity

[Romero]

The Senate will vote as early as Monday on a bill to strip Planned Parenthood of federal funding, a largely symbolic vote causing pain for centrists in both parties and drawing fire from conservatives who say it won't satisfy their quest to put the organization out of business.



The bill isn't expected to garner the 60 votes needed to advance, as nearly all Democrats object to it. Its defeat, however, won't end the effort to cut off federal money for Planned Parenthood.



http://www.wsj.com/articles/senate-to-vote-as-soon-as-monday-on-defunding-planned-parenthood-1438294764">//http://www.wsj.com/articles/senate-to-vote-as-soon-as-monday-on-defunding-planned-parenthood-1438294764

This is what the 'baby parts' liars are up to. Planned Parenthood provides health care, STD and cancer screenings, breast exams and much more to millions of women.



Defunding Planned Parenthood will endanger millions of women. Who's going to provide those services? Dove?

[Wulf]

First, as a male, if you are one, you have no say over ANY woman - file that



Second if she expresses opinion it is her right to do so ... unless the thought police you seem to think you are one of have made it illegal



You mouth off on this issue a lot thinking you are the law and have the duty to put women straight... when as a mere male it is not your place to judge any woman .... unless she get's so pissed off @ your out of place strong come on  tactics that she cuts your balls off ... in which case you have place to judge  .... and in which case  I'll feed them to the wolves and  pay for her lawyer



When you grow a pussy and are fertile  get back to me



Post Edit - assuming you have not fully  grown one already

You're adorable when you try to act tough, thought police!

To me, he reads like a feminist which is to say the only opinion a woman is allowed to have is one that feminism supports.

I've never tried to disallow any woman from having an opinion. And I'm allowed to have my opinion, correct?

 As a gay male you have absolutely no valid opinion on this. Sit down and be grateful your mom didn't have your skull crushed and tissues donated for 75 a pop.

Who said he was gay and why would that invalidate his opinion?

Odinson.  

[Wulf]

The Senate will vote as early as Monday on a bill to strip Planned Parenthood of federal funding, a largely symbolic vote causing pain for centrists in both parties and drawing fire from conservatives who say it won't satisfy their quest to put the organization out of business.



The bill isn't expected to garner the 60 votes needed to advance, as nearly all Democrats object to it. Its defeat, however, won't end the effort to cut off federal money for Planned Parenthood.



http://www.wsj.com/articles/senate-to-vote-as-soon-as-monday-on-defunding-planned-parenthood-1438294764">//http://www.wsj.com/articles/senate-to-vote-as-soon-as-monday-on-defunding-planned-parenthood-1438294764

This is what the 'baby parts' liars are up to. Planned Parenthood provides health care, STD and cancer screenings, breast exams and much more to millions of women.



Defunding Planned Parenthood will endanger millions of women. Who's going to provide those services? Dove?

Translation: The sky is falling, the sky is falling!!!!!!! leftwing blather.  



PP is not part of the US government and is in no way deserving of the tax dollars it sucks up each year. For the most part it is a so-called not for profit organization and lobbying group aligned with the far left agenda. The US government has no business funding it with taxpayer money and just for the record.....I feel that way about ANY non-governmental agency.



Like so many other drains on the government trough, it's nothing but a social activist organization that operates off of the taxpayer's back. I say fuck that shit, cut them loose and see if they can float without sticking their hands in the combined wallets of the US taxpayer.

[RW]

Why is women's health considered a "leftist" issue?

[RW]

You do realise Romero that your link says 95% of women felt relief.  What did the other 5% feel?  Did they feel the same way Dove felt/feels?  Her personal and anecdotal accounts don't make her a liar and actually fall within your "proof that she's lying" cut and paste survey results.  



She's not endangering anyone but you are being a jackass.



You don't need to be a doctor or some kind of professional to console someone.  That statement is ridiculous.



Does it feel good to beat up on a woman who had an abortion and now regrets doing it and wants to save other women the same misery?  Do women not deserve to know what those who didn't feel "relief" actually felt?  



Don't worry about us Catholics.  We use condoms for "disease prevention".

If her job is to console people, then her job is to tell the truth. Telling lies about women's health will endanger them. I can only imagine what other myths she's telling them. If she's going to have a personal bias, then she best leave it to professionals who aren't biased and will give the honest truth.

You realise that consoling women has taken place AFTER they have had abortions right? You read that point right?  How is her empathetic ear "endangering" women?

[Anonymous]

Like pretty much 90 percent of the other women who have used their power of choice too late in the game.

Another lie you're telling women who don't deserve to be lied to.

According to a recent study from the University of California, San Francisco, 95% of women who have had an abortion report that they believe doing so was the right decision for them.



The study, published in the academic journal PLOS ONE, surveyed 667 women over the course of three years.



The study evaluated the women's emotional state for three years following their abortions through semi-annual phone surveys that were conducted every six months after their abortions.



The results showed that while 53% of participants felt that the decision to get an abortion ranged from being "difficult" to "very difficult," an overwhelming 95% of women did not regret their decisions.



The women reported positive emotions regarding their abortions, most notably, with "relief" as a predominant emotion.



http://mashable.com/2015/07/16/abortion-no-regrets/">//http://mashable.com/2015/07/16/abortion-no-regrets/

You're endangering women by lying to them. It's about their health and well-being, not about your guilt.

I really wish I would have chosen birth control or abstinence, and I wish I would have stepped up and did the right thing.

But for 1.2 billion Catholics, birth control is a sin. How nice for you that you wish you had a choice. Yet when you "console" women, you tell them that they don't get any choice and you lie to them to get your way. Your personal choice is up to you and their personal choice is up to you too!



You're not a doctor. You should leave the "consoling" to professionals without an agenda. At least they know they're not supposed to lie to their clients.

Why not just legalize murder period?  It's illegal and still happens after all.

So, you're like a murderer? Should you be spending your life in prison? I bet you're glad that you're not, even though you would want to make every other woman a criminal just for having the same choice you did.

 I'm not catholic. I work in health care. Abortionists actually with hold information. Most women, when honest, let their guard down and express regret.  My last point was very clear sarcasm.