Now, here's a surprise...

[Renee]

Just like banning drugs and the war on drugs cut down on drug use.  It DOESN'T WORK, not here. You know why?  Because guns and drugs are not the problem, RW.  It's easy to put the focus and responsibility on an object that by itself can't do a thing, isn't it?

Can we please stop with the ridiculous comparisons?  Please?



This "it's not the guns" argument is down right retarded.  That's like saying it's not the toaster's fault for making toast because a person put the bread in the slot.  It garners a response of "no shit Sherlock".  People in your country are using guns to shoot and kill others.  That's a fact.  Say whatever stupid crap you like to justify it, you can't change it.



My question to you is what is the solution to get PEOPLE to stop using GUNS to do things like shoot up schools in the US?

You want the answer; I'm not sure you are going to like it.



In almost all of the most recent mass shootings the perpetrator was known by family members and in some cases the authorities, to have had issues with mental illness and social behavior. Unfortunately or mental health system failed not only the shooter but the general public as well. Why....because HIPAA laws which protect a patients privacy, prevented law enforcement (FBI, State Police, BATF) from being alerted to the fact that these individuals had access to guns. Unfortunately these laws must change in the case of the mentally ill. People who are or have a history of mental illness must be reviewed and in many cases, prevented from obtaining firearms. Unfortunately there is a whole group of people on the PC left that will fight changes to HIPAA tooth and nail as will the insurance carriers.



Step 2....EVERYONE no matter what state they live in or travel to, when applying for a permit to purchase a firearm they must submit to a complete background check (NICS) and in addition they MUST submit to a mental health review and provide character references. This has been the law in NJ since the early 90s and I myself have had to be subject to a mental health background check for every handgun I have purchased, which by the way I had to pay for and sign a legal doc giving permission to do so. These requirements need to be uniform across the country.



Step 3....This speaks directly to the random violence and the availability of illegal guns on the street which far out pace the mass shootings and is actually the REAL gun issue. This type of gun violence is generally drug and gang related. The law enforcement community must lobby the politicians to actually do something about gang violence and the proliferation of gangs in the US. Currently the political elite in this country have no intention of doing anything more about gangs other than keeping the status quo. Oh they cry and they whine about gangs and gang violence and trot out the dog and pony show but when it comes down to it, they are unwilling to upset the ethnic communities where these gangs thrive and operate because it will cost them the support of their constituents. Ask any cop in the US that deals with that shit on a daily bases and they will tell you the same thing. The second part of step 3 requires the fortitude to actually do something about the drug problem in this country. Currently the so called "War on Drugs" is a fucking bust. it is nothing more than lip service and it is a rat hole where money is poured down with little or no payback. If the drug issue can actually be addressed effectively, violent crime of all kinds will decrease exponentially.  



Now how these measures are implemented and practiced, I don't have the answers but I do know because it will require a host of social changes and policies that many in this country will be unwilling to pay for or get behind. It will also require politicians in this country to actually care about the people more so than they do about preserving their jobs. Unfortunately that kind of public servant is few and far between. Until those 3 key issues are effectively addressed nothing will change. There will simply be a continuation of the polarization we are seeing today.

[J0E]

One measure which might lower campus shootings and deaths is to decentralize civic police forces and have them stationed on every primary/secondary school and college campus in the US.



That way an armed police officer could respond immediately to emergency calls and request that reinforcements called in.

It seems crazy that after so many of these incidents, they haven't adapted to this culture of violence.

They should station a police officer or two plus a squad car at every educational institution in America.

I've seen it at the larger schools in Canada, so America could easily expand this effort.



It seems the pattern of these shootings is always the same.

Sociopaths with access to guns plan these mass murders upon the most vulnerable and unarmed citizens such as k-12 school or college campus.

You never hear about them doing this to a police station or a military base.

Of course, they'd be Dead on Arrival.

Therefore, wouldn't a police presence at these schools act as a deterrent?

If a killer knows he'll meet a pack of wolves as opposed to a flock of sheep at his targeted destination, it would seem that he'd back off, or at least choose another target.

While it's certainly not a perfect solution, if it saved at least more than a handful of lives, then it might work.

[Anonymous]

Just like banning drugs and the war on drugs cut down on drug use.  It DOESN'T WORK, not here. You know why?  Because guns and drugs are not the problem, RW.  It's easy to put the focus and responsibility on an object that by itself can't do a thing, isn't it?

Can we please stop with the ridiculous comparisons?  Please?



This "it's not the guns" argument is down right retarded.  That's like saying it's not the toaster's fault for making toast because a person put the bread in the slot.  It garners a response of "no shit Sherlock".  People in your country are using guns to shoot and kill others.  That's a fact.  Say whatever stupid crap you like to justify it, you can't change it.



My question to you is what is the solution to get PEOPLE to stop using GUNS to do things like shoot up schools in the US?

 So let's remove the guns from non criminal and just assume criminals won't get them because it's illegal.  It's not a "ridiculous" comparison. It's reality....and you know it.

At least you'd know who the criminals were!



Now care to answer the question posed?

 We do know who the criminals are. What question?

[Anonymous]

I'd rather be here than in the middle east. There are much more dangerous countries. America's crime rate is lower than it was in the early 80s....there is just a lot of propaganda. But if the government attempts to remove guns there WILL be a huge revolt. It will get a lot worse. There is a mentality and a culture here that is being overlooked by those in other countries.

I agree.



But those more dangerous countries that you refer to do NOT hold themselves up as the "world's greatest democracy", nor take it upon themselves to invade and bomb other nations in a policing role.



Your nation needs to stfu, withdraw and think about itself.

 Yeah, our government is the reason we have our guns. And won't be disarmed.

[Bricktop]

Okay I've heard this "fear" talk one too many times out of you.

Then I suggest you put me on ignore, or take another powder.



I am somewhat surprised that you bothered to do a little research about Australia. Sadly, you made the mistake of joining the dots you discovered with your eyes closed.



What you foolishly and fatuously (no, not THAT kind of fat) try to misrepresent is our sensible and reasonable management of immigrants, and our rational approach to the prevention of fence jumpers. I'm amused by your claim that it represents fear. What then, to make of your leading Presidential candidate's proposal to build a wall between you and Mexico? No walls on this island, toots.



As to your other idiotic claims in a frankly stupid attempt to paint us as just as frightened of our own shadow as you, I will not even dignify them with a response. Anyone who knows Australia, and Australians, will recognise your ill-conceived attempt at portraying us in the same light as you as as absurd as you becoming a vegetarian.



Let me make it simple. We had a mass murder, by a deranged lunatic, with a high powered rifle. Our PM said that such firearms in a modern community are too dangerous, because we cannot eradicate lunatics. We can, however, eradicate guns.



He proposed a law banning certain firearms that were at the time quite legal to own.



We as a nation said "OK". We don't want any more mass slaughter, and agree that as long as these guns are in our midst, the risk is high it will be repeated. We handed our guns back because we realised it was the right thing to do.



That, you demented and dumpy doofus, is called "courage". Courage of our conviction that we wanted our society to be safe. Courage that your own President cited when he once again pleads with the rednecks, rifle owners and religious ratbags to reconsider the issue of gun control, and to try to grasp that citing a 200 year old piece of paper as justification makes no sense in the modern world.



As a result, we have had no mass firearm related murder since the hand back. Gun crime and death has reduced.



And we're fucking PROUD of ourselves for making a good community decision.



We don't live in fear of ourselves. Our aborigines are not persecuted. We don't need guns to keep ourselves safe.



And NOTHING you say in your histrionic moronics mentions 30,000 plus gun deaths per year.



Are you PROUD of that?

[Bricktop]

Yeah, our government is the reason we have our guns. And won't be disarmed.

Well, thanks for being honest.



In that case, your country is far from a model to the world (a line from a former President), and has no right imposing its "democracy" on other nations.



Wouldn't you agree?

[RW]

Just like banning drugs and the war on drugs cut down on drug use.  It DOESN'T WORK, not here. You know why?  Because guns and drugs are not the problem, RW.  It's easy to put the focus and responsibility on an object that by itself can't do a thing, isn't it?

Can we please stop with the ridiculous comparisons?  Please?



This "it's not the guns" argument is down right retarded.  That's like saying it's not the toaster's fault for making toast because a person put the bread in the slot.  It garners a response of "no shit Sherlock".  People in your country are using guns to shoot and kill others.  That's a fact.  Say whatever stupid crap you like to justify it, you can't change it.



My question to you is what is the solution to get PEOPLE to stop using GUNS to do things like shoot up schools in the US?

 So let's remove the guns from non criminal and just assume criminals won't get them because it's illegal.  It's not a "ridiculous" comparison. It's reality....and you know it.

At least you'd know who the criminals were!



Now care to answer the question posed?

 We do know who the criminals are. What question?

The one above that follows, "My question to you is..."



 

[Anonymous]

Just like banning drugs and the war on drugs cut down on drug use.  It DOESN'T WORK, not here. You know why?  Because guns and drugs are not the problem, RW.  It's easy to put the focus and responsibility on an object that by itself can't do a thing, isn't it?

Can we please stop with the ridiculous comparisons?  Please?



This "it's not the guns" argument is down right retarded.  That's like saying it's not the toaster's fault for making toast because a person put the bread in the slot.  It garners a response of "no shit Sherlock".  People in your country are using guns to shoot and kill others.  That's a fact.  Say whatever stupid crap you like to justify it, you can't change it.



My question to you is what is the solution to get PEOPLE to stop using GUNS to do things like shoot up schools in the US?

 So let's remove the guns from non criminal and just assume criminals won't get them because it's illegal.  It's not a "ridiculous" comparison. It's reality....and you know it.

At least you'd know who the criminals were!



Now care to answer the question posed?

 We do know who the criminals are. What question?

The one above that follows, "My question to you is..."



 

 Saw it. Renee answered it better than I could. I brought those things but she broken them down better.

[Anonymous]

Yeah, our government is the reason we have our guns. And won't be disarmed.

Well, thanks for being honest.



In that case, your country is far from a model to the world (a line from a former President), and has no right imposing its "democracy" on other nations.



Wouldn't you agree?

 Agree?  I've been saying it for years.

[Anonymous]

In Canada, it's not difficult to take your one day restricted course, submitting your paper work and then getting permission to buy handguns.

[Renee]

Okay I've heard this "fear" talk one too many times out of you.

Then I suggest you put me on ignore, or take another powder.



I am somewhat surprised that you bothered to do a little research about Australia. Sadly, you made the mistake of joining the dots you discovered with your eyes closed.



What you foolishly and fatuously (no, not THAT kind of fat) try to misrepresent is our sensible and reasonable management of immigrants, and our rational approach to the prevention of fence jumpers. I'm amused by your claim that it represents fear. What then, to make of your leading Presidential candidate's proposal to build a wall between you and Mexico? No walls on this island, toots.



As to your other idiotic claims in a frankly stupid attempt to paint us as just as frightened of our own shadow as you, I will not even dignify them with a response. Anyone who knows Australia, and Australians, will recognise your ill-conceived attempt at portraying us in the same light as you as as absurd as you becoming a vegetarian.



Let me make it simple. We had a mass murder, by a deranged lunatic, with a high powered rifle. Our PM said that such firearms in a modern community are too dangerous, because we cannot eradicate lunatics. We can, however, eradicate guns.



He proposed a law banning certain firearms that were at the time quite legal to own.



We as a nation said "OK". We don't want any more mass slaughter, and agree that as long as these guns are in our midst, the risk is high it will be repeated. We handed our guns back because we realised it was the right thing to do.



That, you demented and dumpy doofus, is called "courage". Courage of our conviction that we wanted our society to be safe. Courage that your own President cited when he once again pleads with the rednecks, rifle owners and religious ratbags to reconsider the issue of gun control, and to try to grasp that citing a 200 year old piece of paper as justification makes no sense in the modern world.



As a result, we have had no mass firearm related murder since the hand back. Gun crime and death has reduced.



And we're fucking PROUD of ourselves for making a good community decision.



We don't live in fear of ourselves. Our aborigines are not persecuted. We don't need guns to keep ourselves safe.



And NOTHING you say in your histrionic moronics mentions 30,000 plus gun deaths per year.



Are you PROUD of that?

Same old shit even more long winded. Tolstoy would be jealous. It's funny but after all that, all you managed to say was the same shit you'be been saying on every gun thread this forum has seen. Truthfully at this point, one doesn't even have to read your little girl screaming to know what is dribbling out of your mealy mouth.



Here is a hint shit for brains, we have all heard it before and each time you puke it up, it gets more and more shrill and it matters even less. Obviously you haven't figured that out yet so you can thank for explaining it to you any time.



 It's so lovely how you view your nation's racism and xenophobia thru rose colored glasses.



As I said previously, you little twat, you stink of fear. Anyone with the perception of a flea who is unlucky enough to come in contact with an arrogant Aussie for more than 5 mins, sees you clowns for what you are. You cannot hide from your racist past and your present no matter how you spin it any more than we can. No matter how you look at it, racism is fear and you Sissies or rather Aussies have it in spades.



 All one has to do is Google "Australian racism" or "Australian Muslims" and you get a good picture of your penchant for fear of the outside world. But let's be fair now, it wasn't always Muslims that you down under shit stains were all twisted up about. Before that it was Asians or more specifically, the Chinese and before that it was Eastern Europeans and before that it was the bloody boongs. So I guess to your credit you can be considered equal opportunity bigots and racists.  



As for putting you on ignore, well I wouldn't dream of doing that again. It's far too entertaining watching you squirm and justify your red neck attitude and watch you make excuses for being about the most  backwardly, ethnocentric English speaking nation on the planet. All you scumbag Aussie pricks are the same. The only thing more blatant and more obnoxious than your ego, is your arogance. You are a nation of drunken white frat boys thumping your chest, propping yourselves up as some kind of God's gift to the world. In reality you are just loud mouthed , inappropriate, frightened bunch of racist excessively white sheep.



BTW, dumb ass, in the US mass shootings like the one that just took place account for LESS THAN 1% OF VIOLENT CRIME. I'm sure they accounted for even less than that in Oz. So don't tell me that you aren't a bunch of easily panicked little sissies. You might be able to lie to yourselves and some of you might actually believe it. But it's pretty obvious that you are.

[reel]

I get the argument that there are just too many guns in circulation in the US and that they can't all be removed, thus giving people the psychological impetus to feel they need to own a legal gun to protect from the illegal ones.  So you can't ban gun ownership.  Then don't.  



Ban the import and production of guns.  Destroy illegal guns as they are seized.  Increase penalties to and ease prosecution of people owning illegal guns.  People who own guns can keep them to protect themselves from the bogeyman.  People who want to own guns will have to pay an increasingly higher price to buy one from a decreasing stock.  Everyone will be hesitant to use their gun because its use will mean its destruction and a high price of replacement.



There are ways to control guns that overcome this perceived problem of only the criminals having guns.  You just don't want to.



And guns are not drugs.  They don't grow in fields.  A skilled blacksmith could handcraft a gun, but he's certainly not going to flood the market with them before he gets caught.  Banning import and production would rapidly decrease stock.

[Anonymous]

I get the argument that there are just too many guns in circulation in the US and that they can't all be removed, thus giving people the psychological impetus to feel they need to own a legal gun to protect from the illegal ones.  So you can't ban gun ownership.  Then don't.  



Ban the import and production of guns.  Destroy illegal guns as they are seized.  Increase penalties to and ease prosecution of people owning illegal guns.  People who own guns can keep them to protect themselves from the bogeyman.  People who want to own guns will have to pay an increasingly higher price to buy one from a decreasing stock.  Everyone will be hesitant to use their gun because its use will mean its destruction and a high price of replacement.



There are ways to control guns that overcome this perceived problem of only the criminals having guns.  You just don't want to.



And guns are not drugs.  They don't grow in fields.  A skilled blacksmith could handcraft a gun, but he's certainly not going to flood the market with them before he gets caught.  Banning import and production would rapidly decrease stock.

Banning import and especially production? How much will that cost in terms of jobs and economy? Wouldn't they have to criminalize gun ownership first before they do that. That would require a constitutional amendment, so good luck with that.

[reel]

Banning import and especially production? How much will that cost in terms of jobs and economy? I think they would have to criminalize gun ownership first before they do that. That would require a constitutional amendment, so good luck with that.

To be sure, what you say is true.  And murder decreases unemployment by reducing directly or freeing up opportunities for others.  The economics of guns are pretty clearly in favour of mayhem.  Hopefully tragic loss of life doesn't come down to a simple question of economy.  It doesn't seem to in any other sector of society.



You don't need a constitutional amendment to ban the production or import of guns.

[J0E]

But what good does banning gun imports from America if most of the guns used are made in the US?



Smith Weston, Colt, etc.



You can'tprevent importation of something made in ur own country, eh?

I get the argument that there are just too many guns in circulation in the US and that they can't all be removed, thus giving people the psychological impetus to feel they need to own a legal gun to protect from the illegal ones.  So you can't ban gun ownership.  Then don't.  



Ban the import and production of guns.  Destroy illegal guns as they are seized.  Increase penalties to and ease prosecution of people owning illegal guns.  People who own guns can keep them to protect themselves from the bogeyman.  People who want to own guns will have to pay an increasingly higher price to buy one from a decreasing stock.  Everyone will be hesitant to use their gun because its use will mean its destruction and a high price of replacement.



There are ways to control guns that overcome this perceived problem of only the criminals having guns.  You just don't want to.



And guns are not drugs.  They don't grow in fields.  A skilled blacksmith could handcraft a gun, but he's certainly not going to flood the market with them before he gets caught.  Banning import and production would rapidly decrease stock.