Is Lust a Sin?

[Anonymous]

We don't believe in shame or works based salvation though....so....yeah. You should have spent less time in religion and more studying scripture. Just sayin.

[RW]

We don't believe in shame or works based salvation though....so....yeah.

You tell someone it's a sin and it's wrong, when they do it, chances are they will feel shame.



 :001_rolleyes:

[Anonymous]

You missed the point entirely. You should have spent less time looking to humans and more time studying scripture. Then this shame thing would make sense. And you'd know creationism isn't just 3 chapters.  And that...it's not following rules.  You know a lot about corrupt religious systems and you don't know squat about God, or the bible.  I'm not just not engaging this anymore. You want a whipping post for your emotional issues with beliefs I don't have. It's really aggressive and bizzare.

[RW]

You missed the point entirely. You should have spent less time looking to humans and more time studying scripture. Then this shame thing would make sense. And you'd know creationism isn't just 3 chapters.  And that...it's not following rules.  You know a lot about corrupt religious systems and you don't know squat about God, or the bible.  I'm not just not engaging this anymore. You want a whipping post for your emotional issues with beliefs I don't have. It's really aggressive and bizzare.

Please don't take my sense of humour and sarcasm as seriousness.  That would be ridiculous.



I went to Catholic school.  We had a class called "Religion".  We studied scripture every single day.  Scripture comes from the Bible.  Starting to piece it together Pudding?



You use all sorts of words like "aggressive" and "bizarre" whenever you are challenged in a way that you can't wiggle out of.  It's Bible Thumper 101.  



You mentioned personal issues stemming from feeling naughty when you were humping around at 15 and I countered it with my experience.  Quid pro quo.  You said I don't know anything outside of Catholicism, and I replied that my experience is not limited to one religion and includes Christianity even.



The thing is, you cannot counter my arguments with your biblical bullshit because we both know what I am saying about religion is true.  See scripture for details.

[Anonymous]

I wasn't repressed. I was assulted. There is no comparison here.  But I think you keep forgetting I was raised in a harsh religious environmrnt. They were good at throwing out of context scripture too.   It never occurred to me there was a difference in what religion says and what scripture says until I took ALOT if time to dig into it myself.  Scripture interprets scripture. People dont. It interprets itself.   Even Christ Himself warned of false teachers and man centered religious systems and works based 'salvation'.  We all sin, we have a sin nature, what's the point of shame?   We are instructed to not be ashamed. That we are justified by faith, alone, not by works. I just quoted scripture. You clearly are operating under catholic belief, because there is literally nothing biblically Christian in your complaints. You don't seem to know even the most basic of the gospel. The whole point is freedom in Christ, not bondage to law, works or sin. It's all been taken care of.

[RW]

I wasn't repressed. I was assulted. There is no comparison here.  But I think you keep forgetting I was raised in a harsh religious environmrnt. They were good at throwing out of context scripture too.   It never occurred to me there was a difference in what religion says and what scripture says until I took ALOT if time to dig into it myself.  Scripture interprets scripture. People dont. It interprets itself.   Even Christ Himself warned of false teachers and man centered religious systems and works based 'salvation'.  We all sin, we have a sin nature, what's the point of shame?   We are instructed to not be ashamed. That we are justified by faith, alone, not by works. I just quoted scripture. You clearly are operating under catholic belief, because there is literally nothing biblically Christian in your complaints.

Yes, we are all aware of personal issues around sex.  You've made it all very clear for us thank you.



Scripture will say whatever the hell you want it to say or whatever someone else pushes you to believe it says.  It's why we have so many religions in the first place.



Last time I checked, Catholics and Christians read the same Bible.



The bible is pretty clear on shame.  It says don't feel shame when you are doing things to honour God like testifying about him and Jesus but it says sin is always a cause for shame because sin is behavior that dishonours God (See Ezekiel, Romans, and Thessalonians for details).



What you aren't getting is that sex and human nature existed before religion.  Before marriage and all the rest of this scripture crap.



I just realised that you don't believe in life before religion.



 



Nevermind.

[Anonymous]

You just cannot expand your thinking, can you?  Believe what you want.  But, learn to respect the beliefs of other instead tossing your world view like it's the basis for reality.  I could easily say everything you believe is bullshit and go off about how my mom oversexualized me and the damage it did. I don't though.  Again, I don't think you want to have meaningful discussions leading to a deeper understanding. I think you actually believe you have figured it all out, have completely shut down to any view that opposes yours and only argue to be right. That's closeminded. I've given my views on structured religion several times. Deaf ears, deaf ears.  You'll never understand the spiritual aspects of Scripture if you keep throwing it into religious context. You seemingly refuse to listen to those who have broken past man made religion.

[keeper]

What part of RW's argument are you trying to challenge? she keeps giving you opportunities to make points and you keep coming back with your personal view ,are you not able to counter her with the bible so you have to do this?

[RW]

You just cannot expand your thinking, can you?  Believe what you want.  But, learn to respect the beliefs of other instead tossing your world view like it's the basis for reality.  I could easily say everything you believe is bullshit and go off about how my mom oversexualized me and the damage it did. I don't though.  Again, I don't think you want to have meaningful discussions leading to a deeper understanding. I think you actually believe you have figured it all out, have completely shut down to any view that opposes yours and only argue to be right. That's closeminded. I've given my views on structured religion several times. Deaf ears, deaf ears.  You'll never understand the spiritual aspects of Scripture if you keep throwing it into religious context. You seemingly refuse to listen to those who have broken past man made religion.

HAHAHA!  I was RAISED within religion.  I had to get out of that shit to expand my thinking.



You've already gone on about how your mom oversexualized you.  Why would you feel the need to repeat yourself?  (BTW I don't back off in the face of sensitive personal sharing.  There is no pity train in debate.)



I keep trying to have a meaningful conversation.  I've tried more than once but it seems you can't cogently present a counter argument so you bitch out.  The above being case and point.

[Anonymous]

You just cannot expand your thinking, can you?  Believe what you want.  But, learn to respect the beliefs of other instead tossing your world view like it's the basis for reality.  I could easily say everything you believe is bullshit and go off about how my mom oversexualized me and the damage it did. I don't though.  Again, I don't think you want to have meaningful discussions leading to a deeper understanding. I think you actually believe you have figured it all out, have completely shut down to any view that opposes yours and only argue to be right. That's closeminded. I've given my views on structured religion several times. Deaf ears, deaf ears.  You'll never understand the spiritual aspects of Scripture if you keep throwing it into religious context. You seemingly refuse to listen to those who have broken past man made religion.

HAHAHA!  I was RAISED within religion.  I had to get out of that shit to expand my thinking.

 That's what I'm telling you. I was raised in religion and had to get out of it to expand my thinking.  And how many times have you thrown up your religious srxual repression card to prove your point?  Somehow my experience is invalid?   I told you what scripture says. I showed examples of how it works in reality.  You rejected that and used your personal experience to do so.

[RW]

I mentioned it once and it's not just MY experience.  It's the experience of many within religions including Christianity.



I just made a point about shame in scripture that you denied existed then come back with this oversexualized business.  Your experience isn't invalid.  It's just invalid in this context.



I know the whole confuse them until they throw up their hands is one of your things but I can read through it so please cut the crap Dove. Quit making excuses for religion's fight against human nature.

[Anonymous]

.[/quote]

Yes, we are all aware of personal issues around sex.  You've made it all very clear for us thank you. / well, in all fairness, you've been bringing your religious srxual oppression as if it somehow debunks lust as a sin. It doesnt.



Scripture will say whatever the hell you want it to say or whatever someone else pushes you to believe it says.  It's why we have so many religions in the first place./ this is what is called a fallicy.  Back this claim.



Last time I checked, Catholics and Christians read the same Bible./ check again. The Catholic bible is different. They do NOT read the same bible.



The bible is pretty clear on shame.  It says don't feel shame when you are doing things to honour God like testifying about him and Jesus but it says sin is always a cause for shame because sin is behavior that dishonours God (See Ezekiel, Romans, and Thessalonians for details)./ likewise, see Psalms, Luke, John, Romans, et. Also I'd like to see the exact verses and explore your exegesis.



What you aren't getting is that sex and human nature existed before religion.  Before marriage and all the rest of this scripture crap./ what YOU are getting is that God existed before any of it. Unless you have found, and can provide strong for the cause of the universe. The God of the bible we are discussing created the universe....so....He is the first, in caused cause.  We could go into the cosmological argument and go the way of apologetics. But you'd have to get over this whole "religion! Religion!"  stuff. and get objective.



I just realised that you don't believe in life before religion./ I don't believe in religion, as I've stated SEVERAL TIMES.  I also don't believe in the whole flipping universe suddenly poofing itself into existence and life booming from non life and magically arranging itself into every living species we see today, and since the bible has more evidence to its truth than any other "religious" text and I've personally experienced the healing power of God, I'm not blindly following a random belief system I pulled out of hat. But thank you, for the assumptions.



 



Nevermind.[/quote]

[Anonymous]

Cut the crap Dove. Quit making excuses for religion's fight against human nature.

  Religion is part of human nature. Just saying.  And trying to compare healthy balanced attractions and compatability to lust is a fallicy, as is claiming sex is a meaningless physical act.  If that's true, you'd be cool with your husband doing it with whomever he wishes....and we both know you wouldnt.

[RW]

Cut the crap Dove. Quit making excuses for religion's fight against human nature.

  Religion is part of human nature. Just saying.  And trying to compare healthy balanced attractions and compatability to lust is a fallicy, as is claiming sex is a meaningless physical act.  If that's true, you'd be cool with your husband doing it with whomever he wishes....and we both know you wouldnt.

I agree that the construct of religion is part of the human condition but that doesn't mean it's controlling rules don't go against our human nature.  



I said sex was a physical act and it is.



Please don't assume you know anything about my marriage because you'd find yourself being very wrong.

[Anonymous]

2 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.



4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.