The Wealthy In Canada Are NOT Cheating You

[Anonymous]

Millionaire entertainers and athletes do not have much use either.

...I don't necessarily agree. As long as they earn their keep, this class of millionaires can generate revenue for the economy and provide others with a job. ie - whenever an athlete sells some athletic wear with their name on it, be it a female figure skater, or a 300 lb. flootball player, they're generating revenue for the economy. Somebody else made money off them. And that's not necessarily bad.



I just don't like the kind of athletes who aren't worth the money they get paid. ie - the NHL has so many mediocre players who are getting millions of dollars per year, and they don't produce and aren't especially talented. Have you noticed that? It used to be that only the best players in the league got a million dollars per year. Like Bobby Orr, Bobby Hull. Now it seems like everybody, even the bench warmer who's just a step up from the team's waterboy or janitor is getting paid a million. Worse yet, many of them are on losing teams who don't even make it to the playoffs. In other words, they don't earn it. They're just cardboard - filler. Many of those journeymen are nobodies whom no one is willing to pay to see.



If most professional sports operated on the same model as the NHL, they'd surely go broke. ie - In Tennis or Golf, the athlete doesn't get paid unless they win. If Tiger Woods or Rafael Nadal, former the #1 players in their respective sports don't win this year, they don't get paid. Actually, didn't the Atlanta Thrashers have to move to Winnipeg because they couldn't afford the salaries of their players?



The NHL should put a cap on the salaries, say at $5 million max for regular season, then pay the player extra for the playoffs, depending on how far they go. And only then if they make it to the final or win the Cup, then pay them the $10 or $20 million they feel they're owed.

Are we still talking about what other people have?

 

[RW]

I hate to drag this into Bible terroritory but I'm a bit surprised by your attitude given what the Bible, including Jesus, says about greed and excessive wealth. I understand the envy piece but the greed bit still gets me.

[Anonymous]

I hate to drag this into Bible terroritory but I'm a bit surprised by your attitude given what the Bible, including Jesus, says about greed and excessive wealth. I understand the envy piece but the greed bit still gets me.

I am so tired of secular people twisting what Jesus said to suit their own tastes..



Wealth is not evil by itself..



Some of the greatest saints in the bible were wealthy just like John the Baptist who had nothing was one of the greatest people ever born.



Jesus did not condemn men for their wealth but what it did to them. Mark 10:23



Jesus didn't say it's impossible to enter heaven, but that it's hard.



Why? Money gives us a false sense of comfort and protection



In the New Testament, God tells wealthy Christians what to do with their money. He does not tell them to get rid of their money. He does not condemn them. He does warn them and encourage them to share it with others.

 

But those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a snare and many foolish and harmful desires, which plunge men into ruin and destruction . . . Instruct those who are rich in this present world not to be conceited or to fix their hope on the uncertainty of riches, but on God, who richly supplies us with all things to enjoy. Instruct them to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share, storing up for themselves the treasure of a good foundation for the future, so that they may take hold of that which is life .  1 Tim. 6:9, 17-19

[RW]

I'm so tired of being talked to as if I am not aware of what the Bible says having studied it for years myself.



Timothy is all good and well, but JESUS was quoted by Matthew and he was very specific about wealth:



Matthew 19:21-26 Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."  When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth. Then Jesus said to his disciples, "I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, "Who then can be saved?" Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible." Peter answered him, "We have left everything to follow you! What then will there be for us?"  Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life. But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first



Matthew 6:24 No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.



There are MANY quotes about the perils of greed in the bible, including:



Mark 4:19 but the worries of this life, the deceitfulness of wealth and the desires for other things come in and choke the word, making it unfruitful. <-- This is what people are talking about when they say it has a negative impact on the world.



Now Luke just cuts right to the chase:



Luke 12:15 Then he said to them, "Watch out! Be on your guard against all kinds of greed; a man's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions."



Luke 16:14 The Pharisees, who loved money, heard all this and were sneering at Jesus He said to them, "You are the ones who justify yourselves in the eyes of others, but God knows your hearts. What people value highly is detestable in God's sight." <--- Jesus makes it pretty darn clear what God thinks of people who value money.



James sends an outright warning to rich people:



James 5:1-6 Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming on you. Your wealth has rotted, and moths have eaten your clothes. Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days. Look! The wages you failed to pay the workers who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty.  You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter.You have condemned and murdered the innocent one, who was not opposing you.



And THIS is why I find it interesting that you talk about envy over greed Fash.

[J0E]

Well Fash, I think there is a parallel between overpaid underperforming athletes and giving perks to a business class which doesn't provide a net benefit to the economy.

this was a topic of concern during the 2008 recession, where their excesses were highlighted in the media in the US and Europe.

Subsequently, this led to the defeat of several business friendly governments and tax hikes in many of these countries afterwards.

In other words, if we give someone perks that no other get/have, we should get something back in return.

It's just like a professional hockey player who makes $2million, and more than a Hall of Famer 20 year veteran who made only fraction of that and yet his record was stellar.

If someone makes a lot of money and they are not regarded as exemplary, right or wrong, people take notice.

Millionaire entertainers and athletes do not have much use either.

...I don't necessarily agree. As long as they earn their keep, this class of millionaires can generate revenue for the economy and provide others with a job. ie - whenever an athlete sells some athletic wear with their name on it, be it a female figure skater, or a 300 lb. flootball player, they're generating revenue for the economy. Somebody else made money off them. And that's not necessarily bad.



I just don't like the kind of athletes who aren't worth the money they get paid. ie - the NHL has so many mediocre players who are getting millions of dollars per year, and they don't produce and aren't especially talented. Have you noticed that? It used to be that only the best players in the league got a million dollars per year. Like Bobby Orr, Bobby Hull. Now it seems like everybody, even the bench warmer who's just a step up from the team's waterboy or janitor is getting paid a million. Worse yet, many of them are on losing teams who don't even make it to the playoffs. In other words, they don't earn it. They're just cardboard - filler. Many of those journeymen are nobodies whom no one is willing to pay to see.



If most professional sports operated on the same model as the NHL, they'd surely go broke. ie - In Tennis or Golf, the athlete doesn't get paid unless they win. If Tiger Woods or Rafael Nadal, former the #1 players in their respective sports don't win this year, they don't get paid. Actually, didn't the Atlanta Thrashers have to move to Winnipeg because they couldn't afford the salaries of their players?



The NHL should put a cap on the salaries, say at $5 million max for regular season, then pay the player extra for the playoffs, depending on how far they go. And only then if they make it to the final or win the Cup, then pay them the $10 or $20 million they feel they're owed.

Are we still talking about what other people have?

 

[Anonymous]

Matthew 19:21-26

How This Verse Is Misused By Some: Some point to these verses to say that it is a sin to be wealthy. They say these verses state that a rich-man cannot enter the Kingdom of God.



True Explanation: Christ said it was difficult for a rich man to enter God's Kingdom. He was referring to the example of the rich young man who turned down an opportunity to become one of Christ's disciples because he did not want to give up his wealth.



Let's read the parallel account in Mark 10:24, "And the disciples were astonished at His words. But Jesus answered again and said to them, "Children, how hard it is for those who trust in riches to enter the kingdom of God!"



In the parallel account Christ emphasized that it was trusting in riches that would keep a rich man out of the Kingdom.

Matthew 6:24

Mark 4:19

Hmm, does that mean being rich is a sin?  It can lead to sin but that doesn't mean being rich is sin even though wealth carries with it the risk where "the rich man [will] fade away in the midst of his pursuits" (James 1:11).





God is not opposed to wealth and it is not a sin to be wealthy. His desire is that we prosper (III John 2). Many of God's servants were wealthy. Joseph was a prosperous man (Genesis 39:2). Job was the greatest man in the East (Job 1:3). Abraham was rich in cattle, silver and gold (Genesis 13:2). These men were wealthy, but they did not put their trust in riches nor seek their own blessings. They obeyed God and were blessed materially by Him, and they will be in God's Kingdom.

Luke 12:15

Do you understand why Jesus was so bothered by the man's request?



He was speaking of the idolatry of greed. Ephesians 5:5



I can see where your misunderstanding lies.

Luke 16:14

The Pharisees were mocking our Lord because they were coveteous, greedy and did not want to repent.



The Pharisees prided themselves on their righteousness through strict obedience to their interpretation of God's law. They also despised others, especially sinners and tax collectors (see Luke 18:9-14)



This is as much about the new covenant as anything else.

James 5:1-6

In James 5:1-3 James is forcefully making the point that wealth is temporary and that judgment and eternity are ahead. So to pursue wealth to the neglect of pursuing God or to trust in wealth as the solution to your deepest needs is sheer folly! As Jesus pointedly said, the Mammon of unrighteousness will fail (Luke 16:9). Therefore, we must use it wisely in light of the reality of eternity.



In James 5:5 we should be careful not to live in luxury and self-indulgence..



Jesus' story of the rich man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31) may be behind James' words here. The rich man lived in splendor, while Lazarus, covered with sores, longed to be fed with the crumbs from the rich man's table. But after death, their roles were reversed. The rich man was in agony in the flames of hell, whereas Lazarus was comfortably in Abraham's bosom. The point of that story was not that all rich people go to hell and that all poor people go to heaven. The Bible is clear that there are godly rich people and there are ungodly poor people. Salvation is by grace through faith in Christ alone (Eph. 2:8-9).



Conclusion:



It is only through God's miraculous help, love, mercy and grace that a rich man -- or anyone else -can enter God's Kingdom..



Being poor is not a pathway to eternal life and reign and nor will wealth separate you forever from our Lord..



By biblical times, we in Canada all store up riches for ourselves on earth..



If it was sin to be rich, then Abraham, Solomon, Joseph of Arimathea, and a host of others were living in sin.  God calls being a lover of money a sin (1 Tim 3:3) but the Bible never says being rich is a sin.  



It is physically impossible for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, but with God all things are possible (Matthew 19:26). Jesus told us to "Seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you."



It is only through God's miraculous help, love, mercy and grace that a rich man -- or anyone else -can enter God's Kingdom..

 

For Reference:

Deuteronomy 8:18You shall remember the Lord your God, for it is he who gives you power to get wealth, that he may confirm his covenant that he swore to your fathers, as it is this day.



Proverbs 3:9-10 Honor the Lord with your wealth and with the firstfruits of all your produce; then your barns will be filled with plenty, and your vats will be bursting with wine.



Matthew 6:33 But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.



Proverbs 11:24-25 One gives freely, yet grows all the richer; another withholds what he should give, and only suffers want. Whoever brings blessing will be enriched, and one who waters will himself be watered.

[RW]

I still think the verses I posted made it crystal clear how both God and Jesus felt about wealth Fash.  I haven't misused any quote, only provided those which you seem to have omitted in favour of tame Timothy.  



Mark had a direct message about the perils of wealth on society, one that echoes in sentiment today whereby people are paid shit while the top tier basks in fortunes.



I also would appreciate it if you stopped talking down (in a sense) to us supposed "secular" people as if Christians are only one who have read or understand the Bible.  My points aren't one to make you defensive but I do suspect you and your family aren't hard up which is why you make a point of envy over greed.  I could be wrong.

[Anonymous]

Matthew 19:21-26

How This Verse Is Misused By Some: Some point to these verses to say that it is a sin to be wealthy. They say these verses state that a rich-man cannot enter the Kingdom of God.



True Explanation: Christ said it was difficult for a rich man to enter God's Kingdom. He was referring to the example of the rich young man who turned down an opportunity to become one of Christ's disciples because he did not want to give up his wealth.



Let's read the parallel account in Mark 10:24, "And the disciples were astonished at His words. But Jesus answered again and said to them, "Children, how hard it is for those who trust in riches to enter the kingdom of God!"



In the parallel account Christ emphasized that it was trusting in riches that would keep a rich man out of the Kingdom.

Matthew 6:24

Mark 4:19

Hmm, does that mean being rich is a sin?  It can lead to sin but that doesn't mean being rich is sin even though wealth carries with it the risk where "the rich man [will] fade away in the midst of his pursuits" (James 1:11).





God is not opposed to wealth and it is not a sin to be wealthy. His desire is that we prosper (III John 2). Many of God's servants were wealthy. Joseph was a prosperous man (Genesis 39:2). Job was the greatest man in the East (Job 1:3). Abraham was rich in cattle, silver and gold (Genesis 13:2). These men were wealthy, but they did not put their trust in riches nor seek their own blessings. They obeyed God and were blessed materially by Him, and they will be in God's Kingdom.

Luke 12:15

Do you understand why Jesus was so bothered by the man's request?



He was speaking of the idolatry of greed. Ephesians 5:5



I can see where your misunderstanding lies.

Luke 16:14

The Pharisees were mocking our Lord because they were coveteous, greedy and did not want to repent.



The Pharisees prided themselves on their righteousness through strict obedience to their interpretation of God's law. They also despised others, especially sinners and tax collectors (see Luke 18:9-14)



This is as much about the new covenant as anything else.

James 5:1-6

In James 5:1-3 James is forcefully making the point that wealth is temporary and that judgment and eternity are ahead. So to pursue wealth to the neglect of pursuing God or to trust in wealth as the solution to your deepest needs is sheer folly! As Jesus pointedly said, the Mammon of unrighteousness will fail (Luke 16:9). Therefore, we must use it wisely in light of the reality of eternity.



In James 5:5 we should be careful not to live in luxury and self-indulgence..



Jesus' story of the rich man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31) may be behind James' words here. The rich man lived in splendor, while Lazarus, covered with sores, longed to be fed with the crumbs from the rich man's table. But after death, their roles were reversed. The rich man was in agony in the flames of hell, whereas Lazarus was comfortably in Abraham's bosom. The point of that story was not that all rich people go to hell and that all poor people go to heaven. The Bible is clear that there are godly rich people and there are ungodly poor people. Salvation is by grace through faith in Christ alone (Eph. 2:8-9).



Conclusion:



It is only through God's miraculous help, love, mercy and grace that a rich man -- or anyone else -can enter God's Kingdom..



Being poor is not a pathway to eternal life and reign and nor will wealth separate you forever from our Lord..



By biblical times, we in Canada all store up riches for ourselves on earth..



If it was sin to be rich, then Abraham, Solomon, Joseph of Arimathea, and a host of others were living in sin.  God calls being a lover of money a sin (1 Tim 3:3) but the Bible never says being rich is a sin.  



It is physically impossible for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, but with God all things are possible (Matthew 19:26). Jesus told us to "Seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you."



It is only through God's miraculous help, love, mercy and grace that a rich man -- or anyone else -can enter God's Kingdom..

 

For Reference:

Deuteronomy 8:18You shall remember the Lord your God, for it is he who gives you power to get wealth, that he may confirm his covenant that he swore to your fathers, as it is this day.



Proverbs 3:9-10 Honor the Lord with your wealth and with the firstfruits of all your produce; then your barns will be filled with plenty, and your vats will be bursting with wine.



Matthew 6:33 But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.



Proverbs 11:24-25 One gives freely, yet grows all the richer; another withholds what he should give, and only suffers want. Whoever brings blessing will be enriched, and one who waters will himself be watered.

RW's counter arguments looked like something a ten year old with a month of Sunday school classes would write.

[Anonymous]

RW's counter arguments looked like something a ten year old with a month of Sunday school classes would write.

Not in the least seoulbro..



What RW is saying is valid..



But, yes as a Christian I have heard what she's saying before.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



To RW,



I fellowship at a diverse urban Calvinist church..



We have people on EI and we have a multi millionaire family that owns a big construction company and you have families like ours that between the two..



The two extremes I mentioned are Godly..



But more is expected of the wealthy family than the people on EI.(Luke 12:48)



And they are faithful with the great financial gifts the Lord has blessed them with..



They pay most of our church bills, support our missionaries and Christian education..



They have good stewards of the resources they have been given..



The reason of course is they followed the biblical example Matthew 6:33 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well



God clearly understands that we all need money.He even wants to give us money if we seek His way of life..



However, don't let money rule you...let God be your true master, not money!



There is nothing wrong with acquiring wealth, having nice things, improving your life, etc, but envy and coveting what others have is always sin..



This is why this

[RW]

seoulbro, if you want to hate on me, go over to VF with the rest of the rabid drooling idiots. Twerp.



I would hope you've heard it before - they are bible quotes.  :)



I understand that rich people can be Godly but I don't see this as the case with the billionaires mentioned which is why it surprised me.  I come from money so I don't envy other people's but I won't praise a billionaire for hoarding money either.

[Anonymous]

seoulbro, if you want to hate on me, go over to VF with the rest of the rabid drooling idiots. Twerp.



Fash, I understand that rich people can be Godly but I don't see this as the case with the billionaires mentioned which is why it surprised me.  I come from money so I don't envy other people's but I won't praise a billionaire for hoarding money either.

This is where we agree RW..



I am unaware of a billionaire that loves the Lord..



I know of Godly multi millionaires, but I have never known a single billionaire Christian.

[RW]

I'm curious if you think the main reason people dislike billionaires is envy?

[Anonymous]

I'm curious if you think the main reason people dislike billionaires is envy?

I suppose it would depend on the person, their situation and their motive.



I want to clarify, that there are Christian billionaires, but I have never met one..

http://www.mykingdombusiness.com/christian-billionaire-entrepreneurs/">http://www.mykingdombusiness.com/christ ... epreneurs/">http://www.mykingdombusiness.com/christian-billionaire-entrepreneurs/



I met retired NHL star Mike Gartner, who is a Christian.

[RW]

I assure you that I don't envy what rich people have but their wealth often comes off the backs of others.

[Anonymous]

I assure you that I don't envy what rich people have but their wealth often comes off the backs of others.

I noticed that when we lived in Kazakhstan..



But it is not such a nice place to live anyway..



My husband and I have said we are so thankful the Lord did not make us multi millionaires or billionaires..



That comes with so much responsibility..



I give a big hand to those that can do it right without making too many mistakes.