China'BOXED

[Securious]

On this rare occasion I agree with Xinhua. Romney's reason for blaming China for American economic woes is purely political.

as much as I hate to say it I do too. Remember though Xinhua is the medium for state lying, its pure and sole purpose is propaganda. That being said these too are scoring points wily nilly,all over the map on China without in depth discussions. If there were horror stories would emerge. Funny that! These two are pussy footing China [the enemy] in the hopes they can regain their ground after. Factor in that these debates are a fraud as they are funded, both parties, by the same group. Corporate elites!!! Did someone say Soros, did someone say Kissinger?

[Securious]

Obvious Li, I may point out on one point Oak is right on, that cannibalism thrives in today's China.  I have posted dialogue/peer research on this matter.

[Securious]

Obvious Li, I may point out on one point Oak is right on, that cannibalism thrives in today's China.  I have posted dialogue/peer research on this matter.

Could you post it again please?

by Securious » October 20th, 2012, 5:35 pm



I want to make this abundantly clear about the prectise of eating human flesh as cuisine going back centuries in China-"Learned Canabalism". Anyone who says you are full of it can read this which will be a long post. This will be a rare exercise for me as i do like to cut and paste so her's little argument. In this case I think it is important one gets the truth in its entirity, unbroken.

So please forgive this lengthy submission and understand why. No ore can there be liars that it never or doesnt exist today. Such practises can be rationalised by starvation- shere hunger, but this is a different cult, a learned practise handed down throujgh time, a preferential one whith the wealthy it seems.















From the on-line encyclopedia: Wikipedia

it reads:



Talk:Chinese cannibalism



From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia





Here is a good English source on the subject: Key Ray Chong, Cannibalism in China, Longwood Academic: Wakefield, NH. (1990)



viii: "We need to remind ourselves that the Chinese people are not particularly different from the other races of the world as far as the practice of survival cannibalism is concerned. When it comes to learned cannibalism, however, its practice is quite different. Worthy of note here is the fact that some types of learned cannibalism are found only in China. This study will attempt to examine this unique phenomenon." "Particularly in ancient times, learned cannibalism was often practiced in China for culinary appreciation, and exotic dishes were prepared for jaded upper-class palates in times of health and/or sickness."



ix: "As late as the 19th century, it was not unusual for Chinese executioners to eat the heart and brains of the criminals they disaptch. They also ate a portion of the human meat for health reasons, but when some extra meat was left, they sold it for profit." "Li Shih-chen [DP: 1578] detailed the use of humans many times for medicinal purposes. He noted, for example, that human meat was a good cure for tuberculosis. For the same or similar purposes, he discussed in an equally detailed manner the use of human sweat, urine, sperm, breast milk, tears, dirt, nails and teeth. Even today, in the People's Republic of China, the use of human fingers, toes, nails, dried urine, feces and breast milk are strongly recommended by the government to cure certain diseases."



x: "Apart from this, the Chinese often ate their enemies out of hatred or revenge during wartime." "During World War II, hate-cannibalism is reported to have occurred in China. Later, as the civil war between the Communists and the Nationalists went on for control of China, some Communist soldiers were executed routinely in a far-interior district; and their flesh and bones were eaten out of a spirit of revenge. One American priest told of seeing a Chinese Nationalist officer cut out and eat the heart of a Chinese Communist."



xi: "In short, the Chinese are not necessarily different in any significant way from most other peoples in the world. And yet they are quite unique in the sense that there are so many examples of learned cannibalism throughout their history."



p.54: "The many instances of cannibalism in China throughout antiquity serve as a prelude to the way that the practice of cannibalism later became an integral part of Chinese culture."



pp. 55-62: listings of Chinese surival cannibalism incidents Han to Ming (about one ever 1-2 lines) "... there is little or no doubt about the practice of survival cannibalism in China."



p.79: "Cannibalism was also often involved in the punishmen of criminals in Imperial China. After having been publicly executed, the bodies of the criminals were made available for public exhibition and consumption." "In short the Chinese people used humans not only for food and medicine, but they also expressed their feelings of hatred or revenge by publicly eating the flesh and bones of their fellow men."



p. 88: "In April 882, when the price of one tou (peck of rice went up to 30 min in Chang-an the rebels captured by government troops were sold as food."



p. 105: "According to a more recent study, Chinese soldiers stationed in Taiwan before the Sino-Japanese War of 1894-1895 used to eat human flesh of the aborigines like pork; they could buy it at the marketplace. Human flesh was considered as a source of protein and a way to increase male sexual stamina."



p. 110: [great drought of 1876-1879] "One Western observer said that the most shocking consequence of famine was the rapid spread of cannibalism... The Roman Catholic Bishop of Shansi, ... reported... "... now they kill the living to have them for food. Husbands eat their wives. Parents eat their sons and daughters, and children eat their parents." This was confirmed by a Chinese district magistrate, who made the following observations: ... a grandson chopped his grandomother to pieces, a niece boiled and ate her own aunt ..."



p. 157: "The most popular methods for preparing human flesh were broiling, roasting, boiling and steaming. Next was pickling in salt, wine, sauce and the like.



p. 166: "We have learned that there were far more instances of learned cannibalism than of survival cannibalism... Although we have reported more instances of learned cannibalism in this book, the actual number of victims caused by survival cannibalism could be far greater."



p. 170: "The major conclusions drawn from this study are the following. Cannibalism can be classified in two categories: survival and learned cannibalism. Learned cannibalism in China is different from cannibalism elsewhere. It is unique in the sense that it is an expression of love and hatred, and a peculiar extension of Confucian doctrine."



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Isolated incidents motivated by unusual hatred and/or committed by desperate lads do not justify the use of indicative adverbs such as "often", "in general", "mostly", "not uncommon". Such over-generalized conclusions based on sporadic events have no foundation and only characterize pathetic attempts to conceive an exotically freaky national character: "Unlike other civilizations, China has a rich history of cannibalism...relatively common in China" [intro].



It's good that people here are trying to evaluate it from an objective viewpoint. However, please review the edits of user Nanshu, as s/he has had a history with articles concerning Nanjing and Unit 731.



"rich history of cannibalism"

"relatively common"

"common cooking methods of human flesh"

"Japanese historian Kuwabara Jitsuzo classified`Chinese cannibalism into the five types"

"It is not just Chinese cliche but the fact"

"The Chinese did not hesitate in humiliating corpses"

"It was not uncommon to practice cannibalism for medical purposes"

-- Fuzheado | Talk 00:40, 25 May 2004 (UTC)





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I just found out Kuwabara Jitsuzo's journal article on cannibalism (the original script in Japanese is here. Unlike other civilizations, China has a rich history of cannibalism (??). It is partly because China is the country of literature but mostly because the practice of cannibalism was relatively common in China.



China does have records of cannibalism. To define records as richer or worse than any other countries, one must research and base arguments on solid grounds.



It's not easy to provide quantitative data, but it is almost apparent. But everyone who read classisal Chinese literature notices that there are numerous records on cannibalism and that their attitude toward cannibalism was unusual.

Kuwabara said:

?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????*snip* ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

?????????????? page 204

Now we realize that there are numerous records. Next, we wonder in what proportion these incidents have been reporded so that we can know. We have to consider the wealth of Chinese records. The Chinese documented even minor incidents (again, those I adopted are examples). So we can presume that the abundance of cannibalism on record partially resulted from that of documents. --Nanshu 02:17, 23 Jun 2004 (UTC)

The following was the common cooking methods of human flesh. Note that these were usually used for animals.



1.Fu (? fu3): sliced and dried meat

2.Geng (? geng1): thick soup

3.Hai (? hai3): minced and hashed meat

4.Luan (? luan2): sliced meat

Hai was also a punishment in ancient China.



According to Kuwabara Jitsuzo's article, these are the practices of punishment for three diobeyant nobles during the infamous reign of Shang Zhou of the Shang Dynasty. Kuwabara Jitsuzo's article may have assumed readers' knowledge of Shang Zhou: this wikipedia article has left out that Shang Zhou was a tyrant and also well known for other inhumane punishments. Generalising the tortures of 3 nobles as "common cooking methods" .



Nanshu initially claimed Kuwabara Jitsuzo's descriptions on Chinese cannibalism. As quality contributors, one should always provide reasoning and evidences for hir statements. I was only presenting what I had found on the net at that time.

This is an encyclopaedia article. Making refernce every time is needless and quite cumbersome. And I fear that English-speaking readers are annoyed by flood of non-English literature.

But it makes me happy if readers are interested in the topics I bring and are encouraged to study more about them. Shall I put reference lists on talk pages? --Nanshu 02:17, 23 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I didn't hide emotions. My sole purpose was to sugguest you a strict way to deal with issues and documents that may have been mixed with social and political defamatory attitudes, especially those written in early and middle 20th century before and during the Sino-Japanese War.



The Japanese historian Kuwabara Jitsuzo classified Chinese cannibalism into the five types:



1.cannibalism during famine

2.cannibalism in besieged cities

3.eating human flesh habitually

4.cannibalism driven by animosity

5.eating human flesh as medicine



Contents [hide]

1 Cannibalism driven by animosity

2 Eating human flesh as medicine

3 Corrections

4 Vfd poll result

4.1 Chinese cannibalism

4.2 Translate please

5 Cannibalism in the Dynastic Histories





[edit] Cannibalism driven by animosityChinese literature often says that one ate his bitter enemy. It is not just Chinese cliche but the fact.Irate crowds often scrambled to eat executed prisoners. For example, Wang Mang, who took over the Han Dynasty, was sliced by soldiers. People humiliated his head and someone cut and ate his tongue. This practice was recognized lynch. Il Millione also records the pranctice.



Severing of Wang Mang's body was carried out by mobs during chaos.

??/??/????? ???????? --Nanshu 02:42, 9 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I have not denied the civilian's severing of Wang Mang's body: severing of Wang Mang's body was carried out by mobs during chaos.



Confucianism encourages revenge for parents and bothers. Revenge was achieved by killing enemies, but sometimes one ate them (their hearts and livers in most cases). For example, according to the old Tang book, Wang Juncao stabbed Li Junze to avenge his father. He cut open his belly and ate his heart and liver.



The Chinese did not eat those who died naturally in general, but it was not the case when avenging the killing of his parents. Wang Ban joined Sui's expeditionary force to Chen to avenge his father on former Emperor Wu. He broke the emperor's mausoleum, burned his bone, drank it by combining it with water. He is recorded at the section of filial piety and justice in the Book of Sui. The Chinese did not hesitate in humiliating corpses but he is a special case.



[edit] Eating human flesh as medicineIt was not uncommon to practice cannibalism for medical purposes, but the Chinese established it as a filial devotion to parents. Since the middle Tang Dynasty, devoted sons cut out their thighs to let their sick parents eat them. Those sons were classified as "dutiful sons" in official and unofficial records although this practice was banned several times.

[Obvious Li]

securious...well i do not dispute it has happened in china in past times.....i would dispute that it is still practiced (except maybe in some weird cult) in today's modern china...i mean i know the chinese will eat anything that moves, walks or crawls however, i don't believe that actively feasting on human flesh actually exist

[Obvious Li]

i should have concluded....actually exists in todays modern china

[Gary Oak]

mostly because it is either bullshit or if it is true it speaks to a time gone by...china today is so much different to china of the "great revolution" times.....every asian country has a story of terrible things that happened during desperate times.....they are not proud of it, nor ashamed of it...during ww2 European people that were starving did many similar things.....so what....how can you say you would do different until you are in that position...me i can be honest.....i would do anything necessary to survive...period.

   "It's either BULLSHIT " That's really cool , I never thought of that. Well Coolio, you go right ahead and not know anything until you are really smart and cool. This is a bit of history that is not known and  as I am sure the coolios that don't need to know anything to be cool don't need to know these things. I find the topic interesting. So Coolio, if you don't like knowing history as it isn't cool enough for you then don't read it at all and be a dumb fuck until you a super cool. I really don't want to hear what coolios who don't want to know anything think anyways as coolios are stupid fucking assholes. You know nothing of Chinese history. I have read Chinese history for many years. History isn't cool for coolios of course. Go play some cool video games, smoke crack and fuck off Coolio

lol@garyoak.com......now slowly, repeat after me....."i am not an idiot" "i am not an idiot" "i am not an idiot"......there now does that feel better......there's is no doubt that i am cooler than you big guy...but that's not the point here......you made some grand claims, that you secretly heard about third or fourth hand,  about some chinese people, from some time in history, that ate their relatives. Too which i replied it was either bullshit (an old wives tale) or happened in a prior period in chinese history when things were a lot different.......don't know what you see that is coolio about those statements or concepts.....did you here the one about chinese mothers sexually stimulating their sons in school so they could focus better on studying...i've heard that one a million times...now you have another reason to fear the chinese..........they are sexual deviants as well as cannibals............hahahahahahahhaha



freak show....... feak show......freak show....coming to a town near you

    Very interesting comments from Obvious Li  now let's look at his term IDIOT that he is using. I know about the well known topic of Chinese cannibalism in China and Obviously doesn't have a clue. Who is the idiot ? The clueless cunt who knows nothing or the person who has quite a bit of knowledge on the topic ?  Yo Coolio, I have long considered being COOL as merely being who is higher on the pecking order. Those who aren't interested in the pecking order fo course are geeks and those who are ..are cool.....if they are higher on this stupid pecking order. The problem i have with the pecking order is that at the top you usually have stupid pushy assholes who haven't read a book ever. Now what is so COOL about you ? Is it that you don't know what you are talking about ? You don't seem particulary humourous and if I ever decide to step into the stupid pecking order due to my boxing training and being quite good at amatuer wrestling in high school I am almost higher than you in the pecking order. Coolios don't have what it takes to train at anything anways. I have pounded the lights out of loads of coolios. Now clueless wonder, Jasper Becker [ former editor of the South China Morning Post ] is one of the top China experts in the world and he wrote the very interesting book about the Great Leap Forward [ of course you don't know what the great leap forward was ]  Hungry Ghosts. Why don't you read this book so that you don't have to argue about things that you don't know about. You might also try reading Cannibalism in China

[Securious]

i should have concluded....actually exists in todays modern china

 The cult of eating human flesh still is entrenched  in the nations cuisine amongst elites as outlined in the study. I think an open mind is required here Obvious Li, these things rarely go away but remain in the cultural fabric of nations for milenia.

[Securious]

there is a middle ground here without calling out names on either side. It think it behoves the reader to find the acknowleged source and continue to refine the research.  I have provided sufficient material to undertake this. As I have pointed out its currently practised within select obscure groups and does change its nature with trending cultural changes of course, but go away....NO It Hasnt!

[Obvious Li]

Gary Oak....indeed i do apologize for calling you an idiot.....i concede you have in fact probably read a book about chinese people eating each other.....next time i visit Shanghai i will be much more careful and on the lookout for local cannibals...thx for the heads up



Securious....i try always to keep an open mind.....i am a libra and unable to look at any information presented to me from just one side.......my judicious nature demands that i examine every proposal from all sides endlessly before deciding what is the right course of action, be it words or deeds....so be assured i thought carefully about the possibly of widespread cannibalism in china and have decided that  after years of living and traveling in Asia i find no evidence that cannibalism is rampant as Mr. Oak espouses. However, i do concede that it probably could have been an issue in the past among certain classes and cults and there may be holdovers from past practices.



Shen Li...i appreciate the support.....Gary Oak is ok.....he is just blinded by a singular obsession with a particular point of view.....i know people that are (very) fearful that the USA will invade Canada at any moment.. i no longer argue with these people, it is futile and usually gets them agitated....so i,ll let the boxer,wrestler who could kill me with one blow maintain his delusions without interference.



i wonder if you can get ecoli from eating your neighbors  ÉÉÉÉÉÉÉÉÉÉÉÉÉÉ

[Securious]

Gary Oak....indeed i do apologize for calling you an idiot.....i concede you have in fact probably read a book about chinese people eating each other.....next time i visit Shanghai i will be much more careful and on the lookout for local cannibals...thx for the heads up



Securious....i try always to keep an open mind.....i am a libra and unable to look at any information presented to me from just one side.......my judicious nature demands that i examine every proposal from all sides endlessly before deciding what is the right course of action, be it words or deeds....so be assured i thought carefully about the possibly of widespread cannibalism in china and have decided that  after years of living and traveling in Asia i find no evidence that cannibalism is rampant as Mr. Oak espouses. However, i do concede that it probably could have been an issue in the past among certain classes and cults and there may be holdovers from past practices.



Shen Li...i appreciate the support.....Gary Oak is ok.....he is just blinded by a singular obsession with a particular point of view.....i know people that are (very) fearful that the USA will invade Canada at any moment.. i no longer argue with these people, it is futile and usually gets them agitated....so i,ll let the boxer,wrestler who could kill me with one blow maintain his delusions without interference.



i wonder if you can get ecoli from eating your neighbors  ÉÉÉÉÉÉÉÉÉÉÉÉÉÉ

 Bad Teeth

[Securious]

Mr Obvious, I find your response timely and refreshing, thank you. Its always been my pleasure to read your words and I am glad you spend time looking at all sides, I wish more people would. Note that I never said such a practice was rampant [your words]. To achieve a balance [being a Libra] I suggest you not paraphrase its not helpful for the folks,specially when you have the text in front of you, cheers mate..oh and I am an Aquarius.

 The purpose of said post was to give such a topic some airing to clear out any subjectivity and over active imaginary ghosts as such, this practice is still written up as cuisine w/accompanied recipes as outlined even though kept within certain groups [not rampant].



per se Li





 :mrgreen:

[Securious]

[size=200]What does China want?[/size]



By Fareed Zakaria

Monday, June 7, 2010; A17







BEIJING



Over the past few months, foreign diplomats have privately groused to me about a world power's arrogant foreign policy. Except that they're talking about China, not the United States. A senior official from a developing country said, on background, so as not to anger Beijing: "Chinese officials used to meet with us with a great sense of solidarity and warmth. Now they read us a list of demands." Diplomats in Beijing report that Chinese officials now treat them differently than they did just a few years ago. One complained that even getting meetings with senior officials had become difficult. "People I used to see routinely now refuse to give me an appointment," one said to me in Beijing last week.



Some of this is understandable. Success breeds confidence, as Americans well know. And China has been very successful. By common consent, the country has come out on top after the global economic crisis. Its massive fiscal stimulus is building a new generation of infrastructure; its banks are stable; its consumers have high savings rates; and the government keeps piling up reserves, which now total almost $2.5 trillion. But in discussions with people in and out of the Chinese government last week, I was struck less by arrogance than by the doubt, uncertainty and apprehension that seemed to be plaguing the Chinese.



My interlocutors remained confident about the regime's technical ability to handle the economy. While Wall Street frets about an overheating China, most people here seemed sure that the government would be able to adjust to keep growth steady -- as it has in the past. Worried about a frothy real estate market in Beijing? Well, banks have been ordered to stop giving mortgages, and property taxes are set to be raised. Beijingers cannot buy more than one apartment per family. Once the froth subsides, the rules will, in all likelihood, be revoked.



But deeper changes are also underway. China has had dramatic labor protests in recent weeks, from strikes at a Honda factory to grim accounts of suicide at the vast Foxconn complex, where iPhones are assembled. One scholar calls this "the end of the world-factory model," under which China would be the globe's low-wage manufacturer. "Our economy can't keep squeezing labor benefits because workers are unwilling to accept it," says Chang Kai, director of the Renmin University's Labor Institute.



This is a far cry from the government's attitude only a few years ago, when officials warned that if Chinese workers asked for pay raises, businesses would move to Vietnam and Cambodia. In 2003 Zhang Zhixiong, deputy chairman of the labor union for Hyundai in Beijing, said, "Strikes in China jeopardize the country's reputation," and promised there would be none. Now Lee Chang-hee, at Beijing's International Labor Organization, predicts that unions and collective bargaining are inevitably going to become part of China's landscape, driving up wages.



The quotations in the paragraphs above all come from China Daily, an English-language newspaper published by the government. Nothing like this would have appeared in any language five years ago in China, and the debate gets even more honest in private. A Chinese businessman said to me over lunch in Beijing, "In many ways the financial crisis and the discrediting of the American model has been bad for us. You see, we don't really have an ideology anymore. We don't know what we believe in. We used to think it was some version of the American Dream -- liberalize, open up, grow. But then you had your crisis. We can say, it proves we're strong. But where do we go now?"



The angst is being exacerbated by China's ongoing political transition, in which the top leadership will be replaced in two years, and in which for the first time, the new president and premier will have no personal connection with or blessing from Deng Xiaoping, the architect of modern China. This has broader consequences. China knows it is now a great power and demands that it be respected and listened to. But short of protecting its narrow interests, the regime still doesn't seem sure what it wants internationally. What are its broader foreign policy goals? Is it an ally or a rival of the United States? What kind of a world does it hope to shape?



China is entering a new era but seems ideologically and operationally ill prepared for it. That might explain why Beijing has been hesitant and halting in its attitudes on nuclear proliferation, North Korea and Iran. It is less arrogant than ambivalent, something the United States also knows well from its own early history as a great power.

[Obvious Li]

China is entering a new era but seems ideologically and operationally ill prepared for it. That might explain why Beijing has been hesitant and halting in its attitudes on nuclear proliferation, North Korea and Iran. It is less arrogant than ambivalent, something the United States also knows well from its own early history as a great power.

[/b]



True dat... if western democracies had any balls they could easily keep china contained ......merely by refusing to accept cheap, substandard chinese products and encouraging manufacturers to return to north america to set up operations...we have every advantage and if this recession continues for a few more years, hopefully labor will start to be reasonable and realize it`s better to have a job at a reduced salary than have no job at all......as far as consumers are concerned i would gladly pay a small premium for well made, north american made products... if the markets for chinese products suddenly disappear or are markedly reduced then china will be facing a real shitstorm at home......there are ways to make them play fair

[Securious]

The emergence of China onto the world stage has been financed well in advance of their  so call "Rise'. They never had this kind of pocket change to make it happen. Lets be realistic here. Now whom would be manipulating  and tweaking this "new player"..Why the Central Bankers of course. Follow the money my friend. All these central banks are connected to "The Old Lady Of Threadneedle Street", London, UK, [BOE]. This has been in the planning for years, decades now, usurping western economies and seeing them fail is the plan. A global system is surreptitiously being developed, bit by bit, increment by increment.



From what I have found [40 years watching this happen]..., Obvious Li



Incidently, I have a first hand accounting of these things unfolding through a family member, who was engaged in seeing unfold, and the very reason I post on the topic.

[Securious]

[size=200]China, The Biggest Winner In The Iraq War[/size]

http://ricks.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2012/07/19/china_the_big_winner_in_the_iraq_war">http://ricks.foreignpolicy.com/posts/20 ... e_iraq_war">http://ricks.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2012/07/19/china_the_big_winner_in_the_iraq_war