What is a leppo?

[RW]

Why are you talking about "western values" in the context of the Middle East?  They aren't the west.  Why the fuck should they accept our values?  Because we are so arrogant that we feel the need to forcefully impose our beliefs on others through means such as war?  



I don't give a fuck what your opinion is Islam is in the context of a conversation about destabilization.  You cannot sit there and tell me or anyone else that Bush's bullshit war didn't rock a damn huge boat in the ME which perpetuated events that have lead things to where they are in the Middle East today.



Now if you are going to counter this with some western value, irrelevant bullshit, save your fingers the workout.

[Blurt]

You both have a point.

[RW]

You both have a point.

Sure but I'm talking about bananas and he starts going off about pineapples.  

[Blurt]

He was a police officer.



Typically, the military mindset finds pineapples more useful than bananas.



Give the man a break, eh!

[Bricktop]

Ah, so you're an expert on military mindsets now?



Kindly do not presume to know how my mind works.



God knows I dont presume yours.

[Anonymous]

Here you go again, blaming the West for the perversions of Islam. Tell me, why can't you accept that Islam is inherently violent, evil, and opposed to western values? Why do you have to keep faulting the West for the warfare that exists between islam and the modern world.



Its true, that Bush fucked things up properly.



However...



Nobody had "destabilised" the middle east when Arab forces attacked Israel in 1967. The middle east was relatively stable when Iraq attacked Iran. The west had no dog in the race when Iraq invaded Kuwait. There is no western influence on the despicable Saudi sharia state. No western government caused Gaddafi to rule Libya. I do not recall any western influence on the middle east prior to 9/11, an attack launched from Afghanistan. The west had no influence on the war in Lebanon, and in fact tried to protect the Christian civilians as the muslims began their Hamas led butchery.



The west did not cause Egypt to erupt in an islamic civil war that still rages to this day.



Nor did it influence the insurrection in Bahrain.



Or Yemen.



Or Sudan.



Or Somalia.



Or the Phillipines.



Or Indonesia.



Stop blaming your own. Islam is a vicious, ruthless and inhuman belief system that is at war with the west. We must ensure that our governments stop pretending we can live with these barbarians and do what is necessary to guarantee our safety.

I doubt anyone seriously believes the instability of the muslim lands can be blamed on anyone other than a violent pedophile named muhammad. The islamic world is a backward mess today thanks to him.

[Wulf]

Here you go again, blaming the West for the perversions of Islam. Tell me, why can't you accept that Islam is inherently violent, evil, and opposed to western values? Why do you have to keep faulting the West for the warfare that exists between islam and the modern world.



Its true, that Bush fucked things up properly.



However...



Nobody had "destabilised" the middle east when Arab forces attacked Israel in 1967. The middle east was relatively stable when Iraq attacked Iran. The west had no dog in the race when Iraq invaded Kuwait. There is no western influence on the despicable Saudi sharia state. No western government caused Gaddafi to rule Libya. I do not recall any western influence on the middle east prior to 9/11, an attack launched from Afghanistan. The west had no influence on the war in Lebanon, and in fact tried to protect the Christian civilians as the muslims began their Hamas led butchery.



The west did not cause Egypt to erupt in an islamic civil war that still rages to this day.



Nor did it influence the insurrection in Bahrain.



Or Yemen.



Or Sudan.



Or Somalia.



Or the Phillipines.



Or Indonesia.



Stop blaming your own. Islam is a vicious, ruthless and inhuman belief system that is at war with the west. We must ensure that our governments stop pretending we can live with these barbarians and do what is necessary to guarantee our safety.

I really expect better from you.

No, let's call it what it is, shall we....you "expect" agreement; at least partially.



Unfortunately your entire point of argument is based on an axe that you need to grind. The chief inspector is correct when he points out that instability in the Islamic world has been a hallmark of it's history going all the way back to the dark ages. AND that goes hand in hand with the stubborn adherence to a backward, oppressive and violent ideology.



It beats the shit out of me how anyone in this day and age can deny this or attempt to rationalize it's barbaric aspects.

[Anonymous]

No, let's call it what it is, shall we....you "expect" agreement; at least partially.



Unfortunately your entire point of argument is based on an axe that you need to grind. The chief inspector is correct when he points out that instability in the Islamic world has been a hallmark of it's history going all the way back to the dark ages. AND that goes hand in hand with the stubborn adherence to a backward, oppressive and violent ideology.



It beats the shit out of me how anyone in this day and age can deny this or attempt to rationalize it's barbaric aspects.

That's exactly it Wulf. RW and Homo-ero are deniers.

[RW]

No, let's call it what it is, shall we....you "expect" agreement; at least partially.



Unfortunately your entire point of argument is based on an axe that you need to grind. The chief inspector is correct when he points out that instability in the Islamic world has been a hallmark of it's history going all the way back to the dark ages. AND that goes hand in hand with the stubborn adherence to a backward, oppressive and violent ideology.



It beats the shit out of me how anyone in this day and age can deny this or attempt to rationalize it's barbaric aspects.

I don't need agreement.  I already know what I posted was correct in response to the statement in the meme.  I know you rightards will never concede to anything that doesn't align with what you say.  



I have no axe to grind Wulf.  I just can point out times in Islam rule or occupation where instability didn't reign.  Al-Andalus is coming to mind.  Heard of it?



I would like to note that I have made no attempt to deny or rationalise it's barbaric aspects.  I am just letting you know that there is reality outside of memes and other bullshit that people around here like to invent.

[Anonymous]

[

I don't need agreement.  I already know what I posted was correct in response to the statement in the meme.  I know you rightards will never concede to anything that doesn't align with what you say.

There you go with that shit. It makes you seem dumber than TD.



Newsflash, this is not a right/left thing. There are some Western leftists true to their beliefs who refuse to pretend that Islam is not a vile, backwards ideology incompatible with Western values.

[Wulf]

No, let's call it what it is, shall we....you "expect" agreement; at least partially.



Unfortunately your entire point of argument is based on an axe that you need to grind. The chief inspector is correct when he points out that instability in the Islamic world has been a hallmark of it's history going all the way back to the dark ages. AND that goes hand in hand with the stubborn adherence to a backward, oppressive and violent ideology.



It beats the shit out of me how anyone in this day and age can deny this or attempt to rationalize it's barbaric aspects.

I don't need agreement.  I already know what I posted was correct in response to the statement in the meme.  I know you rightards will never concede to anything that doesn't align with what you say.  



I have no axe to grind Wulf.  I just can point out times in Islam rule or occupation where instability didn't reign.  Al-Andalus is coming to mind.  Heard of it?



I would like to note that I have made no attempt to deny or rationalise it's barbaric aspects.  I am just letting you know that there is reality outside of memes and other bullshit that people around here like to invent.

ac_lmfao. Nice try with your condensing smug shit.



Are you really going to use the Iberian Muslim conquest as an example of stability? Truth is the Muslim hold on Spain was never really stable. They were invaders and there was constant conflict with the Christian kingdoms of Northern Span and Frankish kingdom of France. Even the golden age of the Umayyad Caliphate (ever hear of it) centered in Cordoba, was marked by unrest and instability because the of Umayyad military ambitions in other parts of the globe along with Berber revolts in North Africa which ultimately cause the Caliphate to collapse and fragment.



The truth is Islam has been at war with itself since the death of the prophet and because of the schism it will never be stable. As long as you have two fanatical opposing sides vying for control of the ideology, stability isn't going to be coming anytime soon.

[Anonymous]

No, let's call it what it is, shall we....you "expect" agreement; at least partially.



Unfortunately your entire point of argument is based on an axe that you need to grind. The chief inspector is correct when he points out that instability in the Islamic world has been a hallmark of it's history going all the way back to the dark ages. AND that goes hand in hand with the stubborn adherence to a backward, oppressive and violent ideology.



It beats the shit out of me how anyone in this day and age can deny this or attempt to rationalize it's barbaric aspects.

I don't need agreement.  I already know what I posted was correct in response to the statement in the meme.  I know you rightards will never concede to anything that doesn't align with what you say.  



I have no axe to grind Wulf.  I just can point out times in Islam rule or occupation where instability didn't reign.  Al-Andalus is coming to mind.  Heard of it?



I would like to note that I have made no attempt to deny or rationalise it's barbaric aspects.  I am just letting you know that there is reality outside of memes and other bullshit that people around here like to invent.

ac_lmfao. Nice try with your condensing smug shit.



Are you really going to use the Iberian Muslim conquest as an example of stability? Truth is the Muslim hold on Spain was never really stable. They were invaders and there was constant conflict with the Christian kingdoms of Northern Span and Frankish kingdom of France. Even the golden age of the Umayyad Caliphate (ever hear of it) centered in Cordoba, was marked by unrest and instability because the of Umayyad military ambitions in other parts of the globe along with Berber revolts in North Africa which ultimately cause the Caliphate to collapse and fragment.



The truth is Islam has been at war with itself since the death of the prophet and because of the schism it will never be stable. As long as you have two fanatical opposing sides vying for control of the ideology, stability isn't going to be coming anytime soon.

Wulf, let's assume for arguments sake there is a fourteen hundred year old problem with Islam....now what?

[Thiel]

Second time is a charm.



I agree, opposing or defending Islam is not  a political spectrum thing. But, it is a conundrum for libertarians like me.



I hope this helps to explain it.

Libertarians have a problem. We must decide how to regard ideologies which are wholly opposed to individual liberty.



Yet when it comes to Islam, libertarians seem torn between critiquing ideology and defending a minority. A strong strain of non-interventionism combines with an accepting attitude towards other cultures, causing many libertarians to defend an ideology which does not believe in individual liberty.



They are quick to remind us that moderate Muslims do not condone the violence the world witnessed in Paris last Friday. They are completely right in this regard, many Muslims around the world do not agree with the violent acts of Jihad carried out in the name of their faith. But this ignores the larger problem.



Most moderate socialists do not support gulags, labor camps, speech controls, political purges, or genocide. Yet libertarians recognize that the seed of collectivism can grow into the tyranny of dictatorship and oppression. Libertarians recognize that the removal of economic freedoms, even on a small scale, can lead to totalitarianism. They rightly identify the idea behind the rise of such anti-human systems as collectivism and thus expend much of their efforts combating ideas associated with it.



Islam is entirely opposed to human liberty. Show me a place where Islam is law and I will show you a place where liberty is being suffocated; where women are forced to cover from head to toe and are stoned for being raped, where people are put to death for their beliefs, and where minorities are persecuted.



The battle for liberty is a battle of ideas. If we wish to effectively spread the ideas of liberty we must oppose ideologies which are an affront to liberty. That doesn't mean hating people, it means focusing on why their ideas are wrong.

[RW]

No, let's call it what it is, shall we....you "expect" agreement; at least partially.



Unfortunately your entire point of argument is based on an axe that you need to grind. The chief inspector is correct when he points out that instability in the Islamic world has been a hallmark of it's history going all the way back to the dark ages. AND that goes hand in hand with the stubborn adherence to a backward, oppressive and violent ideology.



It beats the shit out of me how anyone in this day and age can deny this or attempt to rationalize it's barbaric aspects.

I don't need agreement.  I already know what I posted was correct in response to the statement in the meme.  I know you rightards will never concede to anything that doesn't align with what you say.  



I have no axe to grind Wulf.  I just can point out times in Islam rule or occupation where instability didn't reign.  Al-Andalus is coming to mind.  Heard of it?



I would like to note that I have made no attempt to deny or rationalise it's barbaric aspects.  I am just letting you know that there is reality outside of memes and other bullshit that people around here like to invent.

ac_lmfao. Nice try with your condensing smug shit.



Are you really going to use the Iberian Muslim conquest as an example of stability? Truth is the Muslim hold on Spain was never really stable. They were invaders and there was constant conflict with the Christian kingdoms of Northern Span and Frankish kingdom of France. Even the golden age of the Umayyad Caliphate (ever hear of it) centered in Cordoba, was marked by unrest and instability because the of Umayyad military ambitions in other parts of the globe along with Berber revolts in North Africa which ultimately cause the Caliphate to collapse and fragment.



The truth is Islam has been at war with itself since the death of the prophet and because of the schism it will never be stable. As long as you have two fanatical opposing sides vying for control of the ideology, stability isn't going to be coming anytime soon.

You bet your sweet ass I am.  Al-Andalus stands.

[Wulf]

No, let's call it what it is, shall we....you "expect" agreement; at least partially.



Unfortunately your entire point of argument is based on an axe that you need to grind. The chief inspector is correct when he points out that instability in the Islamic world has been a hallmark of it's history going all the way back to the dark ages. AND that goes hand in hand with the stubborn adherence to a backward, oppressive and violent ideology.



It beats the shit out of me how anyone in this day and age can deny this or attempt to rationalize it's barbaric aspects.

I don't need agreement.  I already know what I posted was correct in response to the statement in the meme.  I know you rightards will never concede to anything that doesn't align with what you say.  



I have no axe to grind Wulf.  I just can point out times in Islam rule or occupation where instability didn't reign.  Al-Andalus is coming to mind.  Heard of it?



I would like to note that I have made no attempt to deny or rationalise it's barbaric aspects.  I am just letting you know that there is reality outside of memes and other bullshit that people around here like to invent.

ac_lmfao. Nice try with your condensing smug shit.



Are you really going to use the Iberian Muslim conquest as an example of stability? Truth is the Muslim hold on Spain was never really stable. They were invaders and there was constant conflict with the Christian kingdoms of Northern Span and Frankish kingdom of France. Even the golden age of the Umayyad Caliphate (ever hear of it) centered in Cordoba, was marked by unrest and instability because the of Umayyad military ambitions in other parts of the globe along with Berber revolts in North Africa which ultimately cause the Caliphate to collapse and fragment.



The truth is Islam has been at war with itself since the death of the prophet and because of the schism it will never be stable. As long as you have two fanatical opposing sides vying for control of the ideology, stability isn't going to be coming anytime soon.

Wulf, let's assume for arguments sake there is a fourteen hundred year old problem with Islam....now what?

You tell me Fash.



If Islam is to change and shed it's radical element, the movement must come from within. No amount of ordinance and Western military might can do it alone. Ideas change attitudes in the long run, bullets and bombs only ADJUST attitudes in the short term. In fact most times they do more to foster the wrong attitude than not.