If I were in the US, I'd march with them.

[Bricktop]

Do you have a gun?

[Frood]

None of your business.

[Wazzzup]

So according to Jefferson, EVERYONE should own a gun...to ensure the government plays ball.



What an absurd proposition for the 21st century. Much like all utterings from a time long gone.



Bill Gates once said there was probably a demand for 6 computers only.



Americans seem to believe that their past masters had some providential wisdom that overrides all current knowledge and experience. You revere these politicians far too much. Many caused far more suffering than sense.

Its not an antiquated notion, the norm in the world is still tyrannical government across most continents.  Just because the US government or any other is not that bad at this moment doesn't mean they never will be.  Especially with the tyrannical left taking away people's freedoms all over the place.



Switzerland is overflowing with guns yet they have very little gun crime, so the idea that more guns always equals more crime is simply not true.  (overall, its more likely due to US demographics as I pointed out before)



School shootings are a seperate matter, as I said, if you want to get rid of school shootings. only allow people in one entrance going through metal detectors and have an armed security guard.  That will stop it.

The logic simply does not add up.



What you are saying is that preparation for a civil war is sufficient reason to own a military level firearm??



And in a country that cannot manage its CURRENT level of firearm ownership?



This is insanity at its finest.

We just came close to a coup against an elected president, and may still have one, so tyranny is never far away.  



And I don't think people need to own Ar15s.  But if someone wants to own a gun to hunt and protect their property and lives they should have that right, and they do, because it is part of our constitution.    



As to cannot manage.  Switzerland has lots of guns but very little gun crime.  You have yet to show that crime in the US is due to availablility of guns instead of some other reason, like the one I mentioned before--Demographics.  Or that a gun ban would even work.

[Bricktop]

None of your business.

That's what I thought.



Once again, you prove beyond doubt you are nothing but an airhorn.

[Bricktop]

We just came close to a coup against an elected president, and may still have one, so tyranny is never far away.  

And so gun ownership would somehow avert this? How?

And I don't think people need to own Ar15s.  But if someone wants to own a gun to hunt and protect their property and lives they should have that right, and they do, because it is part of our constitution.

 



So, what you're saying is that owning a gun to protect your flat panel TV and iPad, even though that ownership contributes to the slaughter of children in a school, is OK? Does it not occur to you, seeing as you raise the issue of "crime" (I did not) that if the crime rate in the US and Switzerland is roughly equivalent, that gun ownership does NOT affect the rate of "crime"?

You have yet to show that crime in the US is due to availablility of guns instead of some other reason, like the one I mentioned before--Demographics.  Or that a gun ban would even work.

I have not raised the issue of "crime". You are the one interspersing two issues into one. I merely address the amount of deaths by gunfire in the US. TEN times the closest rate in other developed countries. Mass murder on an unprecedented scale, and increasing. Whilst murder is a crime, robberies, shoplifting, rape and driving DUI are NOT salient to this discussion.

[Blazor]

We just came close to a coup against an elected president, and may still have one, so tyranny is never far away.  

And so gun ownership would somehow avert this? How?

First, you were asking about if gun ownership would aid to avert a coup. Its not so much about averting. Maybe your culture there is different, but here there are still fucks that take pleasure in hating, robbing, maiming, etc. In the event of a coup, and civil unrest breaks out, you will need to defend your family and your shit that will help you survive. When the thugs come with THEIR guns, they will kill you and take yo shit. Rallying over a coup is a whole nother ball game, I dont know if I wanna even get into the logistics of that lol.

So, what you're saying is that owning a gun to protect your flat panel TV and iPad, even though that ownership contributes to the slaughter of children in a school, is OK?

Here you are basically saying that no one, including cops, should have a gun... because they contribute to the slaughter of children. While you were a cop, you carried a gun right? Why not just a billy stick if this was your belief? I say, its cause you have gotten older, that you think this is the way the world should be, "no guns = safe world where no one dies". But this is not the case. People will still kill and rob, only with knives, swords or whatever weapon they want to use. The guns are not killing folks, its the people pulling the trigger.



The world is not civilized Brick, all it would take is an EMP or some shit and people will go bat shit crazy, spinning into utter chaos. Folks will do what they feel they need to do to stay alive, even if it means beating you up for that pack of crackers. I would like to have a standing chance against anyone or group of people trying to pull some shit like that on me. Wouldnt you?

[Bricktop]

That, it seems to me, is a very "American" view of the world, that is not shared by many, if any, other nations.



Humans are much the same the world over. Criminals get guns everywhere (usually made in America). But in EVERY other country, private gun ownership is heavily controlled and prohibited. Yet these countries are not overrun with gun toting robbers and thieves. Why is that?



Why is only America so paranoid about property crime? Why did you justify gun ownership by this measure?



17 kids died because a lunatic obtained a gun legally. This is because Americans demand access to these killing machines. Every gun owner had his or hand on the trigger in Florida, Las Vegas and elsewhere by creating a contributing to a community that is so afraid, it is compelled to own a gun.



Oh, and a 200 year old document drawn up by people who could never foresee the diabolical mess America is in says so.



Ludicrous.

[Wazzzup]

https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/sorry-despite-gun-control-advocates-claims-u-s-isnt-the-worst-country-for-mass-shootings/">https://www.investors.com/politics/edit ... shootings/">https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/sorry-despite-gun-control-advocates-claims-u-s-isnt-the-worst-country-for-mass-shootings/



[size=150]the U.S. doesn't lead the world in mass shootings. In fact, it doesn't even make the top 10, when measured by death rate per million population from mass public shootings.[/size]

So who's tops? Surprisingly, Norway is, with an outlier mass shooting death rate of 1.888 per million (high no doubt because of the rifle assault by political extremist Anders Brevik that claimed 77 lives in 2011). No. 2 is Serbia, at just 0.381, followed by France at 0.347, Macedonia at 0.337, and Albania at 0.206. Slovakia, Finland, Belgium, and Czech Republic all follow. Then comes the U.S., at No. 11, with a death rate of 0.089.



That's not all. There were also 27% more casualties from 2009 to 2015 per mass shooting incident in the European Union than in the U.S.



"There were 16 cases where at least 15 people were killed," the study said. "Out of those cases, four were in the United States, two in Germany, France, and the United Kingdom."



"But the U.S. has a population four times greater than Germany's and five times the U.K.'s, so on a per-capita basis the U.S. ranks low in comparison — actually, those two countries would have had a frequency of attacks 1.96 (Germany) and 2.46 (UK) times higher."

[Blazor]

That, it seems to me, is a very "American" view of the world, that is not shared by many, if any, other nations.



Humans are much the same the world over. Criminals get guns everywhere (usually made in America). But in EVERY other country, private gun ownership is heavily controlled and prohibited. Yet these countries are not overrun with gun toting robbers and thieves. Why is that?



Why is only America so paranoid about property crime? Why did you justify gun ownership by this measure?



17 kids died because a lunatic obtained a gun legally. This is because Americans demand access to these killing machines. Every gun owner had his or hand on the trigger in Florida, Las Vegas and elsewhere by creating a contributing to a community that is so afraid, it is compelled to own a gun.



Oh, and a 200 year old document drawn up by people who could never foresee the diabolical mess America is in says so.



Ludicrous.

Wazzzup has posted things regarding statistics on crime, and has also stated that practically half of those gun related events were suicide. Black on black crime is way up there on the chart as well. They are raised to be that way, in the poverty areas. I was raised in those areas for some of my youth. They dont give a fuck, and will fuck over who they want when they want if it helps them buy a 40 oz and a cheeseburger. I believe some of those areas, where gun laws are more restricted, the rate of the thugs doing bad shit goes up. Because they KNOW no one is gonna stop 'em.



As far as property crime, I dont have much property, so it aint that with me. Its more so knowing in the event of something that I can defend my family, or hold on to the things that will help me survive like food and water and such. The forest aint tame either, we deal with bears and such here. Not saying the first thing Im gonna do is shoot one, nah I'll try and scare it first, but if it charges me, then I'll do what I have to do.



You cant say that about every gun owner had his finger on the trigger. No, because this was a case of a fucked up individual. That gun didnt go skipping off to school and decide it was self aware and had its own agenda. This kid coulda brought a sword to school and started hacking away, or a knife, or a bat, or drove them down with a car when the bell released them at the end of the day, all controlled by an individual.



The forefathers, they would already be pissed if they knew the shit going on today  

[Bricktop]

That gun would NOT have been available to anyone if people didn't want to be armed. Those gun shops exist to make a profit from demand.



Thus, if Americans are part of the demand for a gun industry, they are all culpable if they support that industry.



Its the same argument for islam. Many, like me, blame ALL of islam for nurturing extremists. Its only the crazy minority that commit acts of terror, but we hold all muslims accountable, and rightly so.



By that logic alone, if you own a gun in America, you are part of the problem.

[Bricktop]

After tearfully asking why shootings like the Parkland massacre continued to occur in America, Sam brought up Port Arthur, a tipping point for Australia.



"There was a shooting at a school there in 1999," he said, perhaps confused by the date and location of the massacre.



"After that they took a lot of ideas, put legislation together and they stopped it.



"Can anyone guess how many shooting there have been in a school since then in Australia? Zero.



"We need to do something, that's why we're here. So let's be strong for the fallen who don't have a voice to speak any more, and never let this happen again."



While getting the year wrong, Sam was referencing the deadly massacre in Tasmania in 1996, when Martin Bryant went on a rampage, killing 35 people and injuring 23 others.



https://www.9news.com.au/world/2018/02/22/08/54/florida-shooting-survivors-meet-trump-in-washington?ocid=Social-9NewsGC">https://www.9news.com.au/world/2018/02/ ... al-9NewsGC">https://www.9news.com.au/world/2018/02/22/08/54/florida-shooting-survivors-meet-trump-in-washington?ocid=Social-9NewsGC

[Anonymous]

I think banning AR15's and toughening background checks are a good idea. But, it's not enough to stop mass shootings in schools. I am warming up to Wazzup's idea of everyone entering and leaving through one set of doors with a metal detector.

[Frood]

None of your business.

That's what I thought.



Once again, you prove beyond doubt you are nothing but an airhorn.

You don't think. That's your main problem.

[Bricktop]

I offer a reasoned argument. You offer your usual inane waffle and personal affront.



Nothing changes. You always were and always will be a loud mouthed imbecile.

[Frood]

Pot kettle black