Quote from: Thiel on Today at 02:38:22 PMThe very last sentence is so true.

 The Bible never fails to elicit strong feelings and opinions and i learned a long time ago that there is aways a deeper more personal reason for all of that.

Quote from: Dove on Today at 02:27:47 PMIts not different versions. Its different translations.

 Its an ancient text written in ancient languages from the perspectives of an ancient culture.

 The only legit contradiction is between two of the gospels. One says Judas hung himself and the other says he impaled himself.

 All the other things people view as contradictions have logic explainations or are more clarified by a deeper study of the text.

 Its a super heavy topic and one i dont usually have the mental or emotionally energy to discuss on forums. I come here to spew. I like mostly mindless and silly...shits and giggles posting.

 That doesnt mean im opposed to a discussion but i tend to lack the drive to get into arguements about it.

 When it comes down to it, if someone is put off or just rejects it, no amount of arguing about it is going to change their minds. Faith is a personal journey for each individual. Sometimes understanding the Bible takes more effort than a person wants to use on it. If they dont WANT to make that effort, no amount of arguing with them will change their minds.

 If anything it puts them off even more and agitates them.

The very last sentence is so true.

Quote from: JOE on August 21, 2025, 01:18:12 AMActually I think there are different versions of the Bible depending on what year and languages they were written in Shen Li Shen. Latin Greek Hebrew. And the contents in each aren't always the same. The Bible we read today probably isn't the same as the one(s) from 100 AD.

I think caskur caskur or Dove Dove know & can explain it to us.

 Its not different versions. Its different translations.

 Its an ancient text written in ancient languages from the perspectives of an ancient culture.

 The only legit contradiction is between two of the gospels. One says Judas hung himself and the other says he impaled himself.

 All the other things people view as contradictions have logic explainations or are more clarified by a deeper study of the text.

 Its a super heavy topic and one i dont usually have the mental or emotionally energy to discuss on forums. I come here to spew. I like mostly mindless and silly...shits and giggles posting.

 That doesnt mean im opposed to a discussion but i tend to lack the drive to get into arguements about it.

 When it comes down to it, if someone is put off or just rejects it, no amount of arguing about it is going to change their minds. Faith is a personal journey for each individual. Sometimes understanding the Bible takes more effort than a person wants to use on it. If they dont WANT to make that effort, no amount of arguing with them will change their minds.

 If anything it puts them off even more and agitates them.

Quote from: Renegade Quark on Today at 12:07:56 AMI will say that a admire your faith.

I am going to use that line on the next obnoxious atheist I meet.

Quote from: Shen Li on August 24, 2025, 11:46:52 PMUR are fucking right I am an atheist.

If you have a problem with that, I will sit on ur face.

I'm not sure whether that is a threat or promise.  As for the atheist thing is concerned, you do you. I will say that I admire your faith.

Quote from: Oliver the Second on August 25, 2025, 09:54:11 AMReligion is bullshit used to control weak minded people.

George Carlin was the world's funniest atheist.

Religion is bullshit used to control weak minded people.

Quote from: Renegade Quark on August 24, 2025, 11:39:29 PMatAre you an atheist, Shen Lee?

UR are fucking right I am an atheist.

If you have a problem with that, I will sit on ur face.

Are you an atheist, Shen Lee?

Certainly some interesting takes on the origins of Christian religion. But, Jo Jo and I are uncomfortable with the Apostle Paul's blatant homophobia.

Quote from: Shen Li on August 23, 2025, 03:37:54 PMNever mind the modern translations of the bible as you mentioned about the NW version. I am talking about the translation from the original Greek manuscripts to other languages.

And I'm telling you there is more than one "current version". I'll even go you one better, the original texts were in a hodgepodge of languages, Greek being only one of many. It isn't as though we can point to any one parent translation of works and claim them to be singularly representative of "the bible" in its entirety with all others being complete bunkum, not when there are so many divergent and actively competing editions of it. Not unless you plan on practicing the kinds of slavering elitism you and I give the average liberal for indulging in, though I would hasten to remind you that it isn't as if Liberals enjoy a monopoly on such behaviour.

The Romans of the fourth century (which your timely clarification of your original intent appears necessary, given that your intent wasn't immediately obvious to me) certainly practiced such elitism, but no matter; in my previous reply I indicated to you that a faithfulness and historically accuracy aside, the bible's worth can be judged in the success of the societies that arose from its teachings. We can both agree that the "Damasine List" of authoritative teachings does indeed form to which you refer and repudiate a relatively small part of the whole and was selected by the Council of Rome to apply to "The Christian Church" of the day with the intent on governing a sizeable what of the population at the time. It did enjoy some limited success in guiding its adherents on societally acceptable expressions and interactions, its contents, along with the societies it was initially designed to rule over, have long since flourished and perished through its many subsequent rewrites and "remasterings". Ancient Rome no longer exists, its people no longer exist, but for the time they did, they made a fist of it under the rubric of what you call "horseshit" today. They weren't the only ones mind you, nor were they the first to turn these tales into a working civilization.

There is the "worth" and in my mind there isn't a single person here that can disprove it, myself included.




I deliberately cast my net wide when it comes to biblical teachings because I seek to eschew such elitism and there are few of any flavour of the cloth that it doesn't invite claims of heresy and apostacy from. Being an avowed agnostic I am free to challenge their beliefs and enrich my own understanding of it all and make it work a little better for me. Simply pointing at it and calling it a pile of meadow muffins doesn't really advance the action any in my estimation, not when it was already long cold when it was sifted for corn and served up by Mario and Luigi a millennia and a half ago. Big fucken whoopie that it's a Readers Digest version of the original, it was proven to work and wasn't being shoveled by a bunch of gender dysphoric pooftersexuals that were openly advocating for the statutory rape of minors... or worse.

I can suspend any disbelief accuracy or lack thereof for as long as it inspires peoples better nature. And I commend similar from you, irrespective of where Ultimate Truth resides. 

Never mind the modern translations of the bible as you mentioned about the NW version. I am talking about the translation from the original Greek manuscripts to other languages. I am talking about letters attributed to Paul in the new testament that were forgeries. I am talking about the Romans deliberately omitting some non-canonical books from the final Bible because it didn't serve the empire's grip on power.

All of that is on top of the contradictions within the Roman Bible that they themselves curated in the 4th century.

Inerrant and infallible my yellow ass. That is a modern North American understanding of Xtianity that was a backlash against what was happening in Europe at the time. In particular, Germany.

Quote from: Shen Li on August 21, 2025, 03:20:42 PMI said the current bible was curated by the Roman Empire in the 4th century.

In some religions it is still being manipulated. Jehovah Witnesses are a good example of this, their changes to the bible's texts in the form of the New World Translation bible are often subtle but in many cases they screw with the context entirely. And if you should disagree with the elders take on it, you are declared an apostate and your excommunication is all but assured. And not just from the church mind you, family members are encouraged to turn their backs on you too lest they too be excommunicated. You're not even afforded the luxury of examining other religious groups doctrines; as a JayDub you can leave all the books and pamphlettes you like at the places you visit, but you are expected to refuse any and all attempts of others to hand you theirs.

It's been said that if your faith is solid and incontrovertible then it ought to stand up to any and all challenges. One might reasonably assume this would include the writings of alternate religions, so it would be safe to conclude that the forbidding of certain texts to the congregation points to a serious doubt in somebody's mind that their teachings are beyond reproach.

This is part and parcel of why I consider myself agnostic. Every religion will assure you that they have the skinny on the nature and form of the deity(s), something even the atheists are guilty of in claiming the total absence of same. So many competing stories, all of which require you to take them on faith. Someone has to be wrong here.

Having said this however, I put it to you that dismissing any religious text as "horseshit" is a mistake. Leaving aside any declaration on the nature of some groovy sky fairy, these books have been used to formulate the society you operate within, the rules and expectations on acceptable behaviour all flow from it. This has tangible and appreciable value in provisioning of an agreed social contract for a group of people to operate under.

You are free to disagree of course. I would note however that if the bible (any of them) were truly horseshit as you say and furthermore dismissed as such, then things like "thou shalt not steal" would be included in the "horsehit" pile and any and all complaint you might levy against Ottawa's penchant for stealing the fruits of your labour be null and void.

And you're not about to do that. 

Quote from: Shen Li on August 21, 2025, 03:20:42 PMI said the current bible was curated by the Roman Empire in the 4th century.

You see why folks have the old wanker on ignore.

QuoteActually I think there are different versions of the Bible depending on what year and languages they were written in

I said the current bible was curated by the Roman Empire in the 4th century.