Quote from: Biggie Smiles on Today at 08:03:16 PMI understand that. But self deporting for a person who has been here for 20 years is not as easy in the real world as you are making it seem here.

What does this person do on day two upon arrival in what is now a completely foreign land after he self deports? What does his family do if he is the bread winner and they happen to be US citizens?

it is not as easy in practice as it is in theory.

So? Let it be a Life Lesson in FAFO.  It's been clearly communicated to every single person in this country that every single illegal alien - without regard to how long they have been here - must self deport and register if they want any hope of returning legally.  No special, squeegie exceptions for this DACA dreamer or that. This all gets straightened out by everyone standing in line to enter legally. Period.

QuoteNow if you said to me that a provision exists where people could show up at a predetermined facility close to their areas of residence where their case can be evaluated fairly without any intervention from this broken extortion ring we attempt to pass off as a justice system -  and that decades of faithful adherence to our laws and values would afford them a high probability of continuation then I'd happily jump on board.

but we both know that is NOT what is being presented as a genuine and feasible option here.

True. The last thing we need is a new Federally Funded program. It's best that everyone illegal self deport and come back through an existing and already funded portal.

QuoteWhat is being presented is tantamount to asking someone to play Russian roulette with at least two bullets in the chamber and assuring them the odds are in their favor. No one in their right mind is taking that up.

Likewise, a person who has actually built something here with the sweat of their own hands is going to have a hell of a lot of hesitation walking away from that under the promise that coming back through the front door will reunite them with all that they have lost... with our broken system? In what, 10 to 15 years after they are thoroughly bankrupted? no one in their right mind under those circumstances is doing that and it would be unreasonable to use that as the basis to pigeon hole their character profile.

Yeah? So? Fuck them. Not my problem. We've got to get this mess cleared up and we don't need to muddy everything up with "well, if this is such and that is this" when the answer is clear as crystal and simple.  If you are in this country illegally, you must self deport and register to return legally.

Can't get more simple and uncomplicated than that.

Quote from: Reggie Essent on Today at 05:30:44 PMBigs,

The "case-by-case" vetting you are outlining is already provisioned by the DHS directives.  All illegals, without regard to how long they have been here, must self-deport. Doing so puts them on the list to return legally. Failure to self deport and being swept up by ICE precludes any chance to legally return.

I'm all for some kind of Commission for expediting the process of vetting long-term illegal aliens for return to their communities.  This is something that should be proposed and discussed to recognize that there are probably many thousands of long-term illegals that might deserve to be given break.

But as I said, this type of recognition is already provisioned in the DHS directive that all illegals MUST self deport to be eligible for legal return.

The line jumpers gotta jump through the hoops, man.

I understand that. But self deporting for a person who has been here for 20 years is not as easy in the real world as you are making it seem here.

What does this person do on day two upon arrival in what is now a completely foreign land after he self deports? What does his family do if he is the bread winner and they happen to be US citizens?

it is not as easy in practice as it is in theory.

Now if you said to me that a provision exists where people could show up at a predetermined facility close to their areas of residence where their case can be evaluated fairly without any intervention from this broken extortion ring we attempt to pass off as a justice system -  and that decades of faithful adherence to our laws and values would afford them a high probability of continuation then I'd happily jump on board.

but we both know that is NOT what is being presented as a genuine and feasible option here.

What is being presented is tantamount to asking someone to play Russian roulette with at least two bullets in the chamber and assuring them the odds are in their favor. No one in their right mind is taking that up.

Likewise, a person who has actually built something here with the sweat of their own hands is going to have a hell of a lot of hesitation walking away from that under the promise that coming back through the front door will reunite them with all that they have lost... with our broken system? In what, 10 to 15 years after they are thoroughly bankrupted? no one in their right mind under those circumstances is doing that and it would be unreasonable to use that as the basis to pigeon hole their character profile.

Think about it realistically for a second. By their own admissions the DHS say they are seeking out people with Court Orders to Deport. How would there be a court order in the first place had this person not attempted, at one point or another, to go the judicial route. Cause I can tell you right now, I know lots of people that have been here for years and never seen the inside of a court house, let alone have their cases presented before a judge.

So let's devise a system where we incentivize them to come to us with assurances that there is a reasonably attainable end goal. Make it clear that all bets are off if we have to come get you. Show compassion. Show reasonableness and the good ones will come to you.

Again, I am advocating for a very small population here. I'd be outright stunned if 50,000 people currently in this country fit the profile I am referring to. The bar is as it should be. High. And I am certainly not referring to animals who commit crimes or jerkoffs like the one we saw on tiktok mocking Americans and teaching his kind how to squad in other peoples houses. they can get fucked and starve to death for all I care.

But I can definitely find it within myself to show mercy to the guy who's worked his ass off for the last 20 years in construction 6 or 7 days a week and can probably say that he's in one way or another built 50% of the houses in the town he lives him. He's stayed out of trouble, contributed positively to society and is a man of high moral character.  Or the mother equally moral to the man I just described who gave birth to a son here 20 plus years ago that went on to become a Marine and fight in one of our many pointless wars -- and God forbid did not make it home.

Are you prepared to tell her thanks for your sacrifice now get the fuck out ? I'm not.

Quote from: Biggie Smiles on Today at 05:02:53 PMSounds reasonable enough.

Provided the following as a caveat. If they can prove either of two things then I would be looking to go after the true culprit to make the American tax payer whole.

1. If they can prove they went through the immigration process with an attorney and were assured citizenship but it turns out they were lied to. In such a case they too are a victim and the real predator is the attorney.. whom we should go after.

2. They can prove previous employers withheld taxes. In a situation where the government was never actually paid we should then go after employer and carve a provision for them to start accruing  said benefits as they are not culpable for the actions of that dishonest employer. Unless they were somehow in on the arraignment. then all bets are off.

Other than that? They lived free and clear of taxes for 20 years and had to know something was wasn't quite right  with that but continued down that pathway anyway. Under such a circumstance options you stipulate are a fair penance to atone for their sins.

 

Bigs,

The "case-by-case" vetting you are outlining is already provisioned by the DHS directives.  All illegals, without regard to how long they have been here, must self-deport. Doing so puts them on the list to return legally. Failure to self deport and being swept up by ICE precludes any chance to legally return.

I'm all for some kind of Commission for expediting the process of vetting long-term illegal aliens for return to their communities.  This is something that should be proposed and discussed to recognize that there are probably many thousands of long-term illegals that might deserve to be given break.

But as I said, this type of recognition is already provisioned in the DHS directive that all illegals MUST self deport to be eligible for legal return.

The line jumpers gotta jump through the hoops, man.

Quote from: Frood on Today at 04:47:17 PMIf they don't get caught for 20 years and draw no benefits plus committed no other crimes except being a illegal squatter motherfucking fuckhead but worked and cared for themselves, ok... they can stay but no Social Security, Medicare, other welfares ever... no tax refunds. No voting rights.

Deal?

Sounds reasonable enough.

Provided the following as a caveat. If they can prove either of two things then I would be looking to go after the true culprit to make the American tax payer whole.

1. If they can prove they went through the immigration process with an attorney and were assured citizenship but it turns out they were lied to. In such a case they too are a victim and the real predator is the attorney.. whom we should go after.

2. They can prove previous employers withheld taxes. In a situation where the government was never actually paid we should then go after employer and carve a provision for them to start accruing  said benefits as they are not culpable for the actions of that dishonest employer. Unless they were somehow in on the arraignment. then all bets are off.

Other than that? They lived free and clear of taxes for 20 years and had to know something was wasn't quite right  with that but continued down that pathway anyway. Under such a circumstance options you stipulate are a fair penance to atone for their sins.

 

Quote from: Biggie Smiles on Today at 12:24:50 PMHard to say. We could have someone here for 20 years and 18 of them were spent living off the taxpayer, still doesn't speak English and has made next to no position contributions to our society

that would NOT be someone I advocate for

but on the flip side, you may have someone who's here 10 years and has an amazing track record to reflect their character. I would advocate for that person.

He/she would need to go through the official process to make their presence legal but I would ensure their ability to remain were not tethered to their financial ability to support the greed of an utterly broken system

If they don't get caught for 20 years and draw no benefits plus committed no other crimes except being a illegal squatter motherfucking fuckhead but worked and cared for themselves, ok... they can stay but no Social Security, Medicare, other welfares ever... no tax refunds. No voting rights.

Deal?

Quote from: Lokmar on Today at 03:31:08 PMIllegals on the dole need deported. End of.

100% no questions asked.

Illegals on the dole need deported. End of.

Quote from: Dove on Today at 12:43:49 PMI would support this.

 Its time to check on our immigration laws imo.


 To be fair its supposed to be hard to immigrate and they SHOULD be assimilating. The US used to only allow hard working and exceptional immigrants.

I am 100% behind a tough immigration policy. Ie seal the border shut. Not a single one comes in.

But at the same time. The front door should NOT be riddled with inefficiencies that make it ripe with opportunities for the blood sucking attorneys to fleece people looking to enjoy the American dream

in fact, take the entire process out of the court system entirely and give it to an agency that lawyers have zero influence on or affinity to

it's a simple equation if one has standards and an official policy to govern the process. Either a migrant meets the qualifications or they don't -- why an attorney or a judge has to be a part of that process is an enigma to me as all they are capable of doing is to muddy the waters.

Quote from: . on Today at 01:37:54 PMNot the least nowadays because they are ripe for exploitation. Much is made about the dems loving their illegals because of the voting bump they often represent; know too that on the right that illegals are cherished in certain circles because they will work for dirt cheap and can be kicked to the kerb with little (read "no") recourse whatsoever.

Get enough of them, you keep the wages low and conditions shitty for the actual citizens. This is more or less why Vivek needed to be kicked out on his ass over the whole H1B visa thing; his policies were geared towards flooding the market with what was effectively cheap indentured servants while the average American struggles to scratch out a living.

I'd have tied the curry munching fuckwit by his cock to the front of one of Prowler's muscle cars myself. Disingenuous traitor, he can fuck right back to Streetshitterville any time he likes.

yet another example of shit I do not support. Taking food out of the American worker's plate is not America first.

Quote from: Dove on Today at 12:43:49 PMI would support this.

 Its time to check on our immigration laws imo.


 To be fair its supposed to be hard to immigrate and they SHOULD be assimilating. The US used to only allow hard working and exceptional immigrants.

Not the least nowadays because they are ripe for exploitation. Much is made about the dems loving their illegals because of the voting bump they often represent; know too that on the right that illegals are cherished in certain circles because they will work for dirt cheap and can be kicked to the kerb with little (read "no") recourse whatsoever.

Get enough of them, you keep the wages low and conditions shitty for the actual citizens. This is more or less why Vivek needed to be kicked out on his ass over the whole H1B visa thing; his policies were geared towards flooding the market with what was effectively cheap indentured servants while the average American struggles to scratch out a living.

I'd have tied the curry munching fuckwit by his cock to the front of one of Prowler's muscle cars myself. Disingenuous traitor, he can fuck right back to Streetshitterville any time he likes.

Quote from: Brent on Today at 11:56:30 AMI don't think they make that distinction in Poland between long term illegal and recent. Maybe they do.

All I know is that I like their asylum and immmigration laws and especially their enforcement. Which is why Poland is one of the safest countries in Europe.

 The only one with no terror attacks.

 My daughter and her girlfriend recently spent a few weeks in Poland. They really enjoyed it.

Quote from: Biggie Smiles on Today at 12:24:50 PMHard to say. We could have someone here for 20 years and 18 of them were spent living off the taxpayer, still doesn't speak English and has made next to no position contributions to our society

that would NOT be someone I advocate for

but on the flip side, you may have someone who's here 10 years and has an amazing track record to reflect their character. I would advocate for that person.

He/she would need to go through the official process to make their presence legal but I would ensure their ability to remain were not tethered to their financial ability to support the greed of an utterly broken system

 I would support this.

 Its time to check on our immigration laws imo.


 To be fair its supposed to be hard to immigrate and they SHOULD be assimilating. The US used to only allow hard working and exceptional immigrants.

Quote from: Brent on Today at 11:54:14 AMI just did a search. He is different from most artists.

 He is a good guy.

Quote from: Frood on Today at 12:13:03 PMSo a statute of limitations then? 20 years ?

Hard to say. We could have someone here for 20 years and 18 of them were spent living off the taxpayer, still doesn't speak English and has made next to no position contributions to our society

that would NOT be someone I advocate for

but on the flip side, you may have someone who's here 10 years and has an amazing track record to reflect their character. I would advocate for that person.

He/she would need to go through the official process to make their presence legal but I would ensure their ability to remain were not tethered to their financial ability to support the greed of an utterly broken system