THeBlueCashew

General Discussion => The Flea Trap => Topic started by: Anonymous on December 11, 2018, 04:01:13 PM

Title: I would not blame Alberta if that province left Canada
Post by: Anonymous on December 11, 2018, 04:01:13 PM
Alberta has been punching above it's weight class for a long time. That Western province has been paying Canada's bills.



But, we have not shown any gratitude. Central Canada, my province and Quebec have been very selfish and unappreciative of all that Alberta has done for confederation. If that province was part of the United States, they would have international access for their exports. They would be booming like North Dakota is.



Alberta's woes are deliberate and the Trudeau regime along with some provincial governments(Alberta included) bear responsibility.



When Alberta succeeds, Canada succeeds. But, Canada is  putting up roadblocks.



I would not blame Albertans if they decided confederation no longer works for them.



By Canadace Malcolm



Trudeau's approach to Alberta is damaging national unity



While elites in Central Canada fret over abstract issues like climate change and gender-based analyses, the problems facing many working Canadians are far more real.



A 26-year-old waitress in northern Alberta reminded Prime Minister Justin Trudeau about the urgent and dire problems faced by so many in her province.



After Trudeau took a cheap shot at hard-working men in the construction industry, saying there are "social impacts (on women in rural areas) because they're mostly male construction workers," a Grand Prairie resident wrote a scathing rebuttal on Facebook that has been shared more than 55,000 times.



"Because of these men, I was able to go grocery shopping and get everything on my list. I was able to fill my tank at the gas station, not just $20 to get by ... and (I knew) I wouldn't have to worry about choosing between the water or electric bill. When these men leave, we have to cut staff. We have to tell someone they can't help support their families, they have to tell their kids they can't afford ... hockey, soccer, etc."



Instead of assuming that blue-collar men are sexual predators, Trudeau should try putting himself in their shoes.



When was the last time Trudeau had to worry about buying food for his family, heating his home or worrying about how to pay for his kids to play soccer?



That's a trick question, of course, since Trudeau was born rich and famous.



Ironically, the last Trudeau man to pay his own way — Justin's grandfather, Charlie Trudeau, who was a conservative — became rich by building an empire of gas stations in Montreal. Now his grandson is engineering the end of oil and gas production in Canada.



Trudeau may be too smug to recognize it, but there is a major crisis in Alberta. It isn't just an oil crisis; it goes far deeper than joblessness and fleeing investments.



In Alberta, there is an existential crisis about the province's future.



Veteran radio host Charles Adler, as always, has his finger on the pulse of this issue.



"Alberta has an 8.2% unemployment rate. Massively uncomfortable question: what do you think the rate would be if Alberta was a U.S. state?" he wrote in a series of Tweets.



South of the border, the economy is booming, pipelines are being built, energy prices are soaring and the country is enjoying the lowest unemployment rates in decades — 3.7%. In oil-rich North Dakota, the unemployment rate is 2.6%.



"How I could blame Albertans looking at 8.2% unemployment and billions of dollars of investment they aren't getting if they ask questions like, 'What are our options? Is our powerful connection to Canada much more about our past than our future?' As a Canadian patriot, I wish I didn't have to ask."



Adler is echoing the concerns I've been hearing for months from folks of every walk of life in Alberta.



Under Trudeau's leadership, many Albertans don't feel at home in Canada. They don't feel like they have a voice; they feel that they don't matter.



Perhaps that's because Trudeau doesn't recognize Alberta values as being Canadian.



"I always say, if at a certain point I believe that Canada was really the Canada of Stephen Harper ... maybe I would think about wanting to make Quebec a country," said Trudeau in 2012.



Trudeau doesn't respect Alberta. In fact, he'd be willing the break up the country if it ever resembled Alberta too much.



Increasingly, it seems that some in Alberta feel the same way.
Title: Re: I would not blame Alberta if that province left Canada
Post by: Anonymous on December 11, 2018, 04:59:22 PM
There is no question that our prime minister is out of touch with working class people,  particularly in my province..



And he doesn't care about anyone who has a different opinion than his own..



But, I haven't seen a real movement to change Alberta's status in Canada....for now anyway.
Title: Re: I would not blame Alberta if that province left Canada
Post by: Anonymous on December 11, 2018, 07:53:41 PM
Alberta will never leave. They will continue to take central Canada's abuse and beg for more.
Title: Re: I would not blame Alberta if that province left Canada
Post by: Berry Sweet on December 12, 2018, 03:35:52 AM
I feel the west should separate from the east.  Stop taking the wests money and they can keep all their "irregular migrants" in Ontario and Quebec and pay for all their expenses.  They can also save the Francophones over there...no one in the west speaks French.  Such a stupid language anyway.
Title: Re: I would not blame Alberta if that province left Canada
Post by: Anonymous on December 12, 2018, 12:58:07 PM
Quote from: "Berry Sweet"I feel the west should separate from the east.  Stop taking the wests money and they can keep all their "irregular migrants" in Ontario and Quebec and pay for all their expenses.  They can also save the Francophones over there...no one in the west speaks French.  Such a stupid language anyway.

That's too extreme for my tastes, but Ottawa would never deliberately destroy the livelihoods of Quebeckers like they have Albertans and people in Saskatchewan too.
Title: Re: I would not blame Alberta if that province left Canada
Post by: Gaon on December 12, 2018, 02:01:43 PM
Quote from: "Berry Sweet"I feel the west should separate from the east.  Stop taking the wests money and they can keep all their "irregular migrants" in Ontario and Quebec and pay for all their expenses.  They can also save the Francophones over there...no one in the west speaks French.  Such a stupid language anyway.

It seems Canadian unity is not as unified as I thought before I immigrated to this country.
Title: Re: I would not blame Alberta if that province left Canada
Post by: Anonymous on December 12, 2018, 04:27:33 PM
Gaon, this editorial from Sun News Media will give you an idea of how dysfunctional our country can be.



Stop playing games, Quebec



It's time for Quebec Premier Francois Legault to get off his high horse.



That was the message from Premier Rachel notley, who made the comments during a press conference to announce plans to build a new refinery for our oil. Why the strong message for the new Quebec leader? Well, he was less than hospitable when new new Brunswick Premier Blaine Higgs tried to do Alberta a solid, and sway Legault on the idea of restarting the Energy East pipeline project. Alberta oil is not "socially acceptable" in Quebec, Legault said.



If there's a reason some in Alberta are trying to stoke separatist sentiment of late, it's comments like that. We may not be keen on the Alberta Exit — let's call it Axit — as it were, but we're frustrated. On the heels of Legault's comments came word that Quebec would be getting a boost in equalization payments, which, while not tied to our pipeline problems, is still seen as a thumb in our eye.



Alberta Finance Minister Joe Ceci piped up and said what many here feel, that the program is not in Alberta's interest. His Quebec counterpart piped up that it's merely electoral politics at play.



There are some legitimate beefs with the structure of the equalization file that need to be worked out, but it's Legault's asinine comments on oil that are the most egregious.



First, Quebec does take our oil, so it's not as though they can claim they don't like it. The Enbridge Line 9B reversal started moving light crude from Western Canada (Alberta included) to refineries in Montreal, and is able to take heavier oil. Also, it's not as though people in Quebec are ditching gas-guzzlers for electric vehicles. nope, in 2017, 60% of the nearly 500,000 new vehicles sold in Quebec were in the category that includes light trucks and SUVS. And Quebec brings in a ton of oil from foreign markets. It should also be noted that Quebec's partner in its cap-and-trade emissions program is dirty oil producing California. Sure the Golden State has green cred, but it still has a dirty oil reputation when it comes to oil production. And, lastly, it's a little ironic to see Quebec raising a stink about Alberta trying to help out its wealth engine (which helps fuel equalization), when it is faced with almost identical hurdles. Quebec is losing out because it can't move surplus hydro-power to the northeastern U.S. Why? Opposition to massive, unsightly transmission lines. you'd think Quebec would recognize Alberta is in the same predicament and maybe, just maybe, be a little understanding. If anyone is playing politics, it's the Quebec politicians trying to appear as environmental saints.
Title: Re: I would not blame Alberta if that province left Canada
Post by: Berry Sweet on December 12, 2018, 04:59:18 PM
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "Berry Sweet"I feel the west should separate from the east.  Stop taking the wests money and they can keep all their "irregular migrants" in Ontario and Quebec and pay for all their expenses.  They can also save the Francophones over there...no one in the west speaks French.  Such a stupid language anyway.

That's too extreme for my tastes, but Ottawa would never deliberately destroy the livelihoods of Quebeckers like they have Albertans and people in Saskatchewan too.

Exactly.  Which is why we need to separate.
Title: Re: I would not blame Alberta if that province left Canada
Post by: Anonymous on December 12, 2018, 05:02:07 PM
Quote from: "Berry Sweet"
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "Berry Sweet"I feel the west should separate from the east.  Stop taking the wests money and they can keep all their "irregular migrants" in Ontario and Quebec and pay for all their expenses.  They can also save the Francophones over there...no one in the west speaks French.  Such a stupid language anyway.

That's too extreme for my tastes, but Ottawa would never deliberately destroy the livelihoods of Quebeckers like they have Albertans and people in Saskatchewan too.

Exactly.  Which is why we need to separate.

I hope Trudeau smartens up and stops taking Western Canadians for granted.
Title: Re: I would not blame Alberta if that province left Canada
Post by: Berry Sweet on December 12, 2018, 05:06:00 PM
Quote from: "Gaon"
Quote from: "Berry Sweet"I feel the west should separate from the east.  Stop taking the wests money and they can keep all their "irregular migrants" in Ontario and Quebec and pay for all their expenses.  They can also save the Francophones over there...no one in the west speaks French.  Such a stupid language anyway.

It seems Canadian unity is not as unified as I thought before I immigrated to this country.


The west has ALWAYS been ignored.  I have lived in the west all my life, and the government has never acknowledged the west. BC has high rent, high everything and the lowest wages.  The middle class has been drowning for years.  People who live off ministry assistance only get something like $350/mo for rent....this is a budget that hasnt moved in 20 years.



ICBC has caused so many problems...not to mention the amount of fraudsters taking ICBCS money.



This country is falling apart.  There are so many different immigrants here, who dont bother learning the language, adjusting to customs or even bother to follow our laws.  They know how to work and scam the system...and if you say anything about it...they scream "racism" like a little bitch.



Canada is garbage, and I'd love to leave and go elsewhere.
Title: Re: I would not blame Alberta if that province left Canada
Post by: Berry Sweet on December 12, 2018, 05:09:15 PM
Quote from: "seoulbro"
Quote from: "Berry Sweet"
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "Berry Sweet"I feel the west should separate from the east.  Stop taking the wests money and they can keep all their "irregular migrants" in Ontario and Quebec and pay for all their expenses.  They can also save the Francophones over there...no one in the west speaks French.  Such a stupid language anyway.

That's too extreme for my tastes, but Ottawa would never deliberately destroy the livelihoods of Quebeckers like they have Albertans and people in Saskatchewan too.

Exactly.  Which is why we need to separate.

I hope Trudeau smartens up and stops taking Western Canadians for granted.


He wont.  Dont wait for change, expect it.  Vote him out.



No PM has ever paid attention to the west.  Ive seen this as a little girl uptown today.  Politics in Canada are a joke.  At this point, just separate.   It seems all Canada is, is Ontario and Quebec...the rest of the provinces are just cash cows for their agenda.  They can go fuck themseloves and take JT with them.
Title: Re: I would not blame Alberta if that province left Canada
Post by: Anonymous on December 12, 2018, 05:45:07 PM
Although Manitoba will receive $2.3 billion in equalization payments next year, I would be down for leaving Central Canada. All those scam refugees crossing the border at Emerson can take their fake claims of fleein for their lives to Ontario and Quebec.
Title: Re: I would not blame Alberta if that province left Canada
Post by: Anonymous on December 13, 2018, 12:15:27 PM
Quebec should rethink abandoning Alberta



All is not well in our federation. Only days after Prime Minister Justin Trudeau convened to meet with the country's premiers, two provinces are now at loggerheads.



Quebec Premier François Legault said at the meeting he wouldn't consider anything like the Energy East pipeline crossing his province because "there's no social acceptability" for it in Quebec and that it would carry "dirty energy".



Albertans didn't take kindly to this. Brian Jean, former Wildrose Party leader, took to social media with a proposal: "Fine. There is no social acceptability in Alberta for any Quebec product whatsoever. Let the boycott begin."



There was then talk of Alberta saying no to Quebec dairy products. "Quebec supplied $445 million of milk, cheese, butter and ice cream to Alberta in 2015," Postmedia columnist Tristin Hopper explained in a recent column. "Alberta dairy farmers also make those products, but they're still selling only about $275 million in their home province."



Who knows what economic clout a boycott would carry. it'll likely be more of a symbol, like how some Americans renamed French fries "Freedom fries" to scold France for their lacklustre support during the war on terror.



Still, talk of a boycott is a powerful symbol because it underscores how frustrated so many Albertans are at the lack of support they're getting from their fellow countrymen.



United Conservative Party Leader Jason Kenney spoke to this big picture in a series of social media posts.



"We are proud to share some of our wealth when times are good in Alberta and bad elsewhere," Kenney posted to Twitter. "But today the opposite is true.



All we ask is that parts of the country that benefit from wealth generated from Alberta resources allow us to develop and sell those resources at a fair price.



"it is not acceptable for a province to block our resources while benefiting massively from the wealth they generate," Kenney continued.



This all happened while Quebec, which has a budget surplus, is receiving a boost of $1.4 billion in equalization payments while deficit-laden Alberta still isn't allowed to build pipelines.



"Equalization does not work for Alberta," Alberta's Finance Minister



Joe Ceci said bluntly on Monday.



Quebec needs to rethink their attitude because what shouldn't be socially acceptable right now is abandoning Alberta.
Title: Re: I would not blame Alberta if that province left Canada
Post by: Anonymous on December 13, 2018, 01:10:20 PM
Shouldn't Quebec's budget surplus be deducted from any equalization payments they receive.
Title: Re: I would not blame Alberta if that province left Canada
Post by: Anonymous on December 15, 2018, 04:04:24 PM
RESPONSIBLE RESOURCE DEVELOPMENT — WHAT A CONCEPT!



Isn't it great to see so many First Nations in B.C. and Alberta lining up in support of responsible resource development, arguing that recent federal government and appeal court decisions are denying them the right to a better standard of life? How will the feds argue in court that it's okay to allow LNG tankers and other huge ships in and out of B.C. ports, but not oil tankers?



I love the argument that a trans-b.c. oil pipeline and corridor is fine ... as long as it is owned and operated by a First Nations partnership. If they can it done, go at 'er!
Title: Re: I would not blame Alberta if that province left Canada
Post by: Anonymous on December 17, 2018, 09:13:38 PM
'There is some hypocrisy'

Quebecers criticize western oil but buy more gasoline, SUVS: Report




Montreal — Quebec's premier is quick to reject "dirty" oil from Western canada in favour of hydro power, but new data indicate the province's citizens are buying record amounts of gasoline and increasingly purchasing trucks and bigger homes.



[size=150]Quebecers are widely seen across the country as environmentally conscious, but per capita, they are some of the highest consumers of energy on the planet, [/size]according to a report prepared by researchers at Universite de Montreal's business school.



Premier Francois Legault recently provoked the ire of western Canadians when he reminded journalists how there was "no social acceptability" in his province for a "dirty energy" pipeline from Alberta.



His comments drew rebukes from pundits and western leaders such as Alberta Premier Rachel Notley, who said Legault "needs to get off his high horse."



Prof. Pierre-Plivier Pineau, co-author of the report on energy use in Quebec, said people have a point when they criticize the province for its public stance on fossil fuels compared to the behaviours of its citizens. "Yes, there is a certain degree of hypocrisy in all humans, and obviously, with regards to certain positions that Quebecers take (on energy), there is some hypocrisy there." Pineau said in an interview.



Quebecers do have some bragging rights, however, when it comes to green living, he explained.



Per capita carbon emissions in Quebec are the lowest in the country, Pineau said, and the province has decreased its overall emissions by 11 per cent since 1990. But that success is less attributed to choice and more to circumstance, Pineau explained.



"One hundred per cent of electricity in Quebec is from renewable resources," he said. "also, Quebecers are less rich than other Canadians, meaning they consume less energy, have less cars."



But the automobiles Quebecers do drive are increasingly gas-guzzling, according his report.



Sales of vehicles such as trucks, SUVS and pick-ups in Quebec increased by 246% between 1990 and 2017 and gasoline sales jumped 33% during the same period. every year since 2015, sales of those types of vehicles have overtaken car sales.



"Among the 3.7 million Quebecers who had a job in 2016 and who worked away from home, 78% said they primarily used a personal vehicle to get there," the report noted.



And the report indicated that between 1990 and 2016, the average surface area of a home in the province increased by 17%.



Moreover, on a per capita basis, Quebecers consume significantly more energy than the global average, as well as citizens in countries such as China and Germany — and almost as much as in the United States.
Title: Re: I would not blame Alberta if that province left Canada
Post by: Anonymous on December 18, 2018, 12:53:41 PM
Social license  to get critical infrastructure built to tidewater has been an  utter failure. It is essentially extortion. The premier of Alberta is doubling down on stupid.



From Sun News Media



No appeasing eco-zealots

Alberta premier still sticking to her disastrous idea of 'social license'



Last week, Premier Rachel Notley said her Quebec counterpart, newly elected Premier Francois Legault "needs to get off his high horse." Of course, Legault had earned the ire of Notley and most Albertans by sneering there was "no social acceptability" in his province for a pipeline with "dirty oil" in it from Alberta.



Notley would actually be a good role model for Legault, since she only climbed off her own high horse a few months ago. Indeed, she has still only come down part way.



It was Notley who established the whole "social acceptability" standard in the first place. Her theory was that if we Albertans just taxed themelves enough and piled up environmental regulations high enough, they would earn "social license" from politicians such as Legault to get pipelines constructed.



How's that worked out? The very fact Legault believes "social acceptability" is a precondition to building pipelines comes directly from Notley's (and others') assertion that it was possible for Alberta to earn "social license."



[size=150]Notley still hasn't fully given up on "social license," either, even though it is crystal clear the concept is an utter failure.[/size]



In a year-end interview Notley gave to Postmedia on Monday, s[size=150]he once again connected Alberta's ability to see pipelines built to saltwater ports with our willingness to beggar our treasury with expensive schemes to make "progress on climate change."[/size]



Frankly, if the last three years had taught Notley anything, it should have been that [size=150]the only thing that will move pipelines along is the willingness of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau to invoke Ottawa's constitutional authority over interprovincial trade. And that is unlikely.[/size]



Pipelines are not being held up because Alberta's climate change efforts are insufficient – a carbon tax, coal-fired power plant closures, higher taxes on largescale emitters, huge power-contract buyouts, wind and solar projects, mountains of new "green" regs. They are being held up because nothing short of an end to the oil and gas industry will satisfy "green" politicians and radical environmentalists.



There is no level of appeasement that will ever prove to be enough. It's not the pipelines the eco-zealots want to stop, it's what's in the pipelines. So "social license" is impossible.



Legault might also be forgiven for thinking Notley had granted his province a veto over pipelines from the West.



One of her first acts as premier in 2015 was to show how "social license" would work. Notley flew to Quebec to meet with Philippe Couillard, Legault's predecessor as premier.



Notley said it was "not unreasonable" for Quebec to impose job-creation demands and high environmental standards on any pipeline through its territory. And it was up to Alberta to prove to Quebec's satisfaction that those demands were being met.



So, first Couillard and now Legault reasoned the highest possible standard was no pipeline at all.



Of course, Prime Minister Trudeau and his federal Liberals let Quebec block pipelines with no consequences.



First, the Liberals changed the pipeline approval rules so Transcanada would kill Energy East (which was unpopular in Quebec). Then they upped Quebec's equalization payments by 11 per cent anyway.



Quebec gets to kill pipelines but consume tax dollars as if the pipelines were up and pumping money into the treasury.



The common denominator with pipeline obstruction in Quebec and in B.C. is Trudeau. Only the federal government possesses the power or influence to push through projects such as Energy East and Trans Mountain.



Of course, Trudeau has no intention of taking the side of Alberta and the energy industry over the objections of Liberal-friendly Quebec and B.C.



And Rachel "Get-offyour-high-horse" Notley has shown no signs of climbing off her "I (heart) Justin" horse.
Title: Re: I would not blame Alberta if that province left Canada
Post by: Bricktop on December 18, 2018, 05:31:41 PM
What is becoming manifestly obvious is that western democratic nations are fracturing along ideological lines.



Neither side of the fault line accepts the governmental policies of the other when they are in power.



"One size fits all" government no longer applies.



The long term implications may well see some of these "Commonwealths" separating in a mitosis-like divide...common cultural backgrounds, but different political persuasions.



One way or another, the status quo is unsustainable. Just ask the French.
Title: Re: I would not blame Alberta if that province left Canada
Post by: Anonymous on December 18, 2018, 06:11:56 PM
Quote from: "Bricktop"What is becoming manifestly obvious is that western democratic nations are fracturing along ideological lines.



Neither side of the fault line accepts the governmental policies of the other when they are in power.



"One size fits all" government no longer applies.



The long term implications may well see some of these "Commonwealths" separating in a mitosis-like divide...common cultural backgrounds, but different political persuasions.



One way or another, the status quo is unsustainable. Just ask the French.

In Canada the failure of democracy is along geographic lines and it's been that way for a long time. Majority governments are won before the polls close in Western provinces.



Both father and son Trudeau got their support from Quebec and the Maritime provinces. The only battleground is vote rich Ontario. If Trudeau wins that he can afford to throw Alberta and Saskatchewan under the bus which is exactly his strategy as it was that of his late father.



This is why I can understand if Alberta and Saskatchewan look for a new arrangement with Canada up to and including secession.
Title: Re: I would not blame Alberta if that province left Canada
Post by: Bricktop on December 18, 2018, 06:19:33 PM
Geographical lines have often defined both cultural and political lines.



On the upside, it makes secession much easier.
Title: Re: I would not blame Alberta if that province left Canada
Post by: Anonymous on December 18, 2018, 06:49:20 PM
Quote from: "Bricktop"Geographical lines have often defined both cultural and political lines.



On the upside, it makes secession much easier.

A lot easier to the region that feels it's getting the shaft.
Title: Re: I would not blame Alberta if that province left Canada
Post by: Berry Sweet on December 18, 2018, 07:12:11 PM
All Canada really is, is Quebec and Ontario.  Huge welfare provinces.  I seriously hope the rest of the country separates.
Title: Re: I would not blame Alberta if that province left Canada
Post by: Anonymous on December 18, 2018, 07:23:21 PM
Quote from: "Berry Sweet"All Canada really is, is Quebec and Ontario.  Huge welfare provinces.  I seriously hope the rest of the country separates.

Quebec should not have a monopoly on the secession option. The threat of separation seems to be the only way to get Ottawa's attention.
Title: Re: I would not blame Alberta if that province left Canada
Post by: Berry Sweet on December 18, 2018, 09:44:28 PM
Quote from: "seoulbro"
Quote from: "Berry Sweet"All Canada really is, is Quebec and Ontario.  Huge welfare provinces.  I seriously hope the rest of the country separates.

Quebec should not have a monopoly on the secession option. The threat of separation seems to be the only way to get Ottawa's attention.


It just needs to be done.  The west has always been ignored and just cash cows to the east.  Let us separate, the west is better off.  We dont need Quebec or Ontario, they are nothing but an over populated shit stain, buck a beer welfare state.
Title: Re: I would not blame Alberta if that province left Canada
Post by: Anonymous on December 18, 2018, 10:21:17 PM
Quote from: "Berry Sweet"
Quote from: "seoulbro"
Quote from: "Berry Sweet"All Canada really is, is Quebec and Ontario.  Huge welfare provinces.  I seriously hope the rest of the country separates.

Quebec should not have a monopoly on the secession option. The threat of separation seems to be the only way to get Ottawa's attention.


It just needs to be done.  The west has always been ignored and just cash cows to the east.  Let us separate, the west is better off.  We dont need Quebec or Ontario, they are nothing but an over populated shit stain, buck a beer welfare state.

I'm thinking. ac_umm
Title: Re: I would not blame Alberta if that province left Canada
Post by: Berry Sweet on December 18, 2018, 11:11:06 PM
Look at everything they've done over the years.  Useless provinces.  They make it difficult for everyone in the west.  If you want to get citizenship to another country, you have to fly to Montreal to do it...everything is Montreal or toronto based...why not make it easier and have head offices in Vamcouver or Calgary? Are we not important enough over here?



And what about Saskatchewan and Manitoba? Those 2 provinces always get fucked in the ass.
Title: Re: I would not blame Alberta if that province left Canada
Post by: Anonymous on December 18, 2018, 11:43:47 PM
Quote from: "Berry Sweet"Look at everything they've done over the years.  Useless provinces.  They make it difficult for everyone in the west.  If you want to get citizenship to another country, you have to fly to Montreal to do it...everything is Montreal or toronto based...why not make it easier and have head offices in Vamcouver or Calgary? Are we not important enough over here?



And what about Saskatchewan and Manitoba? Those 2 provinces always get fucked in the ass.

Seoul lives in Ontario and he is far from useless.
Title: Re: I would not blame Alberta if that province left Canada
Post by: Bricktop on December 19, 2018, 01:52:25 AM
Secession sounds like a good idea, but it is rather like cutting off your leg to lose weight.



Before seceding, you need to consider the population of your new country, and the set up costs for independent infrastructure, such as roads, rail, airports, electrical grid, border protection, defence, health care and foreign relations. You will also need a financial plan that includes taxation, and a welfare system.



Then you need to be confident of being categorised as a sovereign State by the UN.



Once you do your sums, you will realise, as Quebec, Scotland and even Noumea did, that sometimes its better to belong to a big club, than form a small one.
Title: Re: I would not blame Alberta if that province left Canada
Post by: Anonymous on December 19, 2018, 11:16:14 AM
Quote from: "Bricktop"Secession sounds like a good idea, but it is rather like cutting off your leg to lose weight.



Before seceding, you need to consider the population of your new country, and the set up costs for independent infrastructure, such as roads, rail, airports, electrical grid, border protection, defence, health care and foreign relations. You will also need a financial plan that includes taxation, and a welfare system.



Then you need to be confident of being categorised as a sovereign State by the UN.



Once you do your sums, you will realise, as Quebec, Scotland and even Noumea did, that sometimes its better to belong to a big club, than form a small one.

Quebec receives more than  ten billion dollars every year from provinces like mine, Herman's and  Berry's every year..



That would end with secession and Quebeckers knew that..



Albertans don't want to leave Canada, but if Ottawa keeps blocking this province's development, it's forcing us to  look at a new arrangement with Ottawa..



The status quo is becoming unbearable for business, labour and our provincial government.
Title: Re: I would not blame Alberta if that province left Canada
Post by: Anonymous on December 19, 2018, 03:48:10 PM
On Tuesday, Team Trudeau says they feel Alberta's pain. They know Alberta's frustration.



They understand Alberta's anxiety. They want to help Alberta. They announce $1.5 billion in loans for the oilpatch. They announce $150 million cash.



If this is a Christmas announcement, it's like finding a pair of socks and underwear under the tree when you thought you were going to get a new train set.



Albertans want jobs. Albertans want to move their oil to those willing to buy.



Albertans want to see a government really fight for a pipeline.



Albertans want an oilpatch allowed to do what it can do well. Make money and grow Alberta's economy.



Instead, they're served up politicians with Band-aids and jive talk.
Title: Re: I would not blame Alberta if that province left Canada
Post by: Anonymous on December 19, 2018, 04:00:45 PM
Andrew Scheer is right, resource project approvals must be depoliticized. We have a pm who cancels jobs and investment for pure political gain. Shame on Trudeau.



TRY HARDER, OTTAWA

Buying us with our own money doesn't work in Alberta, Mr. Trudeau



If you needed additional evidence that Prime Minister Justin Trudeau doesn't understand Alberta you got more of it on Tuesday.



Federal Natural Resources Minister Amarjeet Sohi and International Trade Diversification Minister Jim Carr announced $1.6 billion in potential funding to Alberta's oil patch — with emphasis placed on the word potential.



"Our government always has and always will stand with the oil and gas sector," Sohi said. "Because we understand that when Alberta hurts, so does Canada."



One billion dollars of the funding will ostensibly help companies invest in new technologies, $500 million is available in commercial financing initiatives over three years from the Business Development Bank; $50 million is up for grabs from Canada's Natural Resources Clean Growth Program, and another $100 million is available through Canada's Strategic Innovation Fund for diversification-related projects.



What Trudeau and his government don't understand is [size=150]Albertans don't want handouts. They want pipelines and sound policies that don't scare away capital investment.[/size] Instead, on Tuesday, Albertans got more bad policy in the form of federal incentives using our own money.



While it's not very polite to look a gift horse in the mouth, the feds are really just returning one of our own horses — this one on its last legs — while it keeps our metaphorical herd of thoroughbreds.



As recent Statistics Canada figures show, in[size=150] 2017 Albertans paid $50.3 billion in taxes to the federal government and received $28.5 billion back in federal spending leaving a whopping $21.8 billion net for the rest of Canada — the largest per-capita contribution to Confederation by far.[/size]



People in the patch say this possible $1.6 billion of funding will do next to nothing to help our beleaguered industry since nobody wants to invest in Alberta owing to the uncertainty caused by Trudeau-government policies — particularly Bills C-69 and C-48 — coming down the pipe.



The only way to get investment to return to Alberta is if some of this money were used for memory-zapping electro-shock therapy or mass hypnotization of the whole world with regard to what Trudeau and Notley have wrought on Alberta's business climate.



When Trudeau unilaterally cancelled the Northern Gateway pipeline in 2016 (with no objection by Notley) after Enbridge and its partners spent $1 billion jumping over countless regulatory hurdles and even after the project passed approval in the House of Commons under Stephen Harper's Conservative government, he shook the confidence of global investors in the reliability of Canada's regulatory processes.



As Tim Mcmillan, president and CEO of the Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers, said during a recent interview,[size=150] "the cancellation of Northern Gateway was the most damaging thing that's been done to our economy," as it proved that our regulatory system is not predictable but contingent on the political whims of a prime minister, or if Bill C-69 passes, on the whims of the environment minister as well.

[/size]


Sandip Lalli, president and CEO of the Calgary Chamber of Commerce, said while "encouraged by the changing tone" from the federal government, "we have seen investment flee Canada due to uncertainty.



"We continue to advocate that the federal government listen to industry and investors by making the necessary amendments to Bill C-69 and adding more efficiency in the regulatory process," added Lalli.



United Conservative Party Leader Jason Kenney said the announcement does "nothing to help the thousands of families in our provinces that are left unemployed as the result of Trudeau Liberal policies and actions.



"If the Trudeau Liberal government was serious about helping support workers in our energy industry, they would pull their devastating 'No More Pipelines Law' Bill C-69 and pull their Tanker Ban Bill C-48 — legislation that discriminates against Alberta oil but gives foreign oil a free pass."



On top of killing Northern Gateway, Kenney also points out that Trudeau's government "also killed the Energy East pipeline, further land locking Alberta's resources."



By having nowhere to go, Alberta's oil is selling at a huge discount compared with the benchmark West Texas Intermediate — and actually fell to a devastating $11 per barrel last month. Premier Rachel Notley announced that starting in January oil output will be curtailed, which immediately helped raise Alberta oil prices, but the differential is still huge, costing the Canadian economy about $80 million every day.



In other words, [size=150]the differential, caused by a lack of pipelines (which is a federal responsibility) will cost $1.6 billion in just 20 days. [/size]Put that in your government's cancelled pipes, Minister Sohi!



Federal Conservative Party Leader Andrew Scheer said Trudeau, who has been quoted as saying he wants to "phase out" the oilsands, doesn't fool anyone with his feigned empathy. "Today's handout is nothing more than a desperate, election-year attempt to trick western Canadians into thinking he cares. He is trying to save a handful of Liberal seats, nothing more. I know Canadians will see it for what it is," he said.



"As prime minister," added Scheer, "I will end Justin Trudeau's war on the energy industry. I will repeal Bill C-69. I will cancel the ban on shipping on the B.C. coast. I will scrap the carbon tax, clean up the regulatory regime, and end foreign meddling in pipeline approvals."



Sounds like heaven to this Albertan's ears. Scheer, however, should add one more thing to that list — he should remove all political meddling in pipeline approvals. Government should simply set up a robust regulatory system, which we already have, and not allow politicians to have a say in killing them once they've received approval in the House of Commons. Period.



[size=150]If Trudeau really wants to get some holiday cheer from Albertans, he would announce the scrapping of Bills C-69 and C-48.[/size] Trying to buy us with our own money doesn't work in Alberta.



If he was really listening, he'd know that already.
Title: Re: I would not blame Alberta if that province left Canada
Post by: Bricktop on December 19, 2018, 05:40:26 PM
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "Bricktop"Secession sounds like a good idea, but it is rather like cutting off your leg to lose weight.



Before seceding, you need to consider the population of your new country, and the set up costs for independent infrastructure, such as roads, rail, airports, electrical grid, border protection, defence, health care and foreign relations. You will also need a financial plan that includes taxation, and a welfare system.



Then you need to be confident of being categorised as a sovereign State by the UN.



Once you do your sums, you will realise, as Quebec, Scotland and even Noumea did, that sometimes its better to belong to a big club, than form a small one.

Quebec receives more than  ten billion dollars every year from provinces like mine, Herman's and  Berry's every year..



That would end with secession and Quebeckers knew that..



Albertans don't want to leave Canada, but if Ottawa keeps blocking this province's development, it's forcing us to  look at a new arrangement with Ottawa..



The status quo is becoming unbearable for business, labour and our provincial government.


I have a question...one that is also relevant here...if a State ignores the Federal government and proceeds to do what it wants, what exactly can the Federal government do about it?
Title: Re: I would not blame Alberta if that province left Canada
Post by: Anonymous on December 19, 2018, 10:48:53 PM
Quote from: "Bricktop"
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "Bricktop"Secession sounds like a good idea, but it is rather like cutting off your leg to lose weight.



Before seceding, you need to consider the population of your new country, and the set up costs for independent infrastructure, such as roads, rail, airports, electrical grid, border protection, defence, health care and foreign relations. You will also need a financial plan that includes taxation, and a welfare system.



Then you need to be confident of being categorised as a sovereign State by the UN.



Once you do your sums, you will realise, as Quebec, Scotland and even Noumea did, that sometimes its better to belong to a big club, than form a small one.

Quebec receives more than  ten billion dollars every year from provinces like mine, Herman's and  Berry's every year..



That would end with secession and Quebeckers knew that..



Albertans don't want to leave Canada, but if Ottawa keeps blocking this province's development, it's forcing us to  look at a new arrangement with Ottawa..



The status quo is becoming unbearable for business, labour and our provincial government.


I have a question...one that is also relevant here...if a State ignores the Federal government and proceeds to do what it wants, what exactly can the Federal government do about it?

Canada has a notwithstanding clause that allows provinces  to override sections of Charter of Rights and Freedoms..



Canadian confederation is complicated.
Title: Re: I would not blame Alberta if that province left Canada
Post by: Gaon on December 19, 2018, 11:00:17 PM
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "Bricktop"
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "Bricktop"Secession sounds like a good idea, but it is rather like cutting off your leg to lose weight.



Before seceding, you need to consider the population of your new country, and the set up costs for independent infrastructure, such as roads, rail, airports, electrical grid, border protection, defence, health care and foreign relations. You will also need a financial plan that includes taxation, and a welfare system.



Then you need to be confident of being categorised as a sovereign State by the UN.



Once you do your sums, you will realise, as Quebec, Scotland and even Noumea did, that sometimes its better to belong to a big club, than form a small one.

Quebec receives more than  ten billion dollars every year from provinces like mine, Herman's and  Berry's every year..



That would end with secession and Quebeckers knew that..



Albertans don't want to leave Canada, but if Ottawa keeps blocking this province's development, it's forcing us to  look at a new arrangement with Ottawa..



The status quo is becoming unbearable for business, labour and our provincial government.


I have a question...one that is also relevant here...if a State ignores the Federal government and proceeds to do what it wants, what exactly can the Federal government do about it?

Canada has a notwithstanding clause that allows provinces  to override sections of Charter of Rights and Freedoms..



Canadian confederation is complicated.

The separation of powers in this country is hard to get my mind around.
Title: Re: I would not blame Alberta if that province left Canada
Post by: Anonymous on December 21, 2018, 01:46:43 PM
You knew this was coming. Just like his father, Justin's legacy will be regional alienation and separatism.



FAIR SHARE... OR ELSE

Fildebrandt says Alberta should consider independence if Ottawa won't listen



Either Alberta gets fair treatment from Ottawa or the province must seriously pursue independence, says Freedom Conservative Leader Derek Fildebrandt.



That's the centrepiece of his party's 2019 election platform, unveiled Thursday in Calgary.



Not in favour



Fildebrandt, member for Strathmore-brooks, told Postmedia he doesn't currently favour Alberta separating from Canada but the status quo is unacceptable.



Within one year of the provincial election, his party wants Alberta's government to have come to an agreement with the feds on major constitutional reform or face an independence referendum.



"If we are going to see any kind of change, we have to show we're serious and we mean it," he said.



"I believe we owe it to ourselves and other Canadians to do everything we possibly can to make confederation work, but merely sucking up to Ottawa the way the NDP does or complaining and grumbling about Ottawa like the Toris do is not going to achieve anything except for throwing us the odd bone."



Fildebrandt says the much-maligned equalization formula — something Premier Rachel Notley and UCP Leader Jason Kenney have both grumbled about — is merely the tip of the iceberg.



Keep it at home



Alberta must have "justice and equality" within confederation, he said. For him, that includes the right to govern ourselves within our own provincial jurisdiction like Quebec does and keeping more of Alberta's wealth and decision-making at home.



"I do not believe independence is the answer today, but the status quo is unacceptable and merely complaining about it is not enough," Fildebrandt said.



To that end, Fildebrandt's party will hold a series of rallies across Alberta in the new year called Equality or Independence where Albertans can discuss what they want to see going forward.



"We didn't light the prairie fire but we are going to be a part of it," he said.



"Canada is worth trying to save, but we should not stay at any price."