Shit just got real.
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/01/15/uk/brexit-vote-theresa-may-gbr-intl/index.html
British lawmakers have soundly rejected Theresa May's Brexit deal, in the biggest defeat for any UK government in the modern parliamentary era.
After 200 speeches across eight days of debate, members of the House of Commons ignored the Prime Minister's final pleas to support her plan and threw it out by 432 votes to 202.
The margin of defeat -- greater than the previous record set in 1924 -- means the Prime Minister now faces a deep political crisis with no clear way forward.
The opposition Labour party immediately triggered a vote of no-confidence in May's government, hoping to capitalize on a perilous moment to force a general election. Acknowledging the scale of the defeat, the Prime Minister said she would allow time for the House of Commons to debate the motion on Wednesday.
Corbyn called the defeat "catastrophic" and said a vote of no-confidence would allow the House of Commons to "give its verdict on the sheer incompetence of this government."
But May urged lawmakers to listen to the British citizens who voted to leave the EU. "I ask members on all sides of the house to listen to the British people, who want this issue settled, and to work with the government to do just that," May said.
What happens now?
May now has 24 hours to save her government. If she loses the vote of no-confidence, it makes a general election more likely.
If she survives, however, May said she would follow a two-stage process to break the Brexit impasse. First, she offered cross-party talks with lawmakers as an attempt to try and figure out a way forward. May promised the government would approach those talks in a "constructive" manner.
Then, if a consensus emerges, she would take a revised plan to the European Union.
But there isn't much time: Britain is due to leave the EU on March 29, whether a deal is in place or not. "Every day that passes without this issue being resolved means more uncertainty, more bitterness and more rancor," May said.
It seems likely that May will survive the confidence vote. The Democratic Unionist Party (DUP) -- the Northern Irish party that props up May's minority government -- said it would work with the Prime Minister to secure a better deal.
DUP leader Arlene Foster welcomed Tuesday's vote, saying the UK parliament had "acted in the best interests of the entire United Kingdom."
Foster added: "Whilst some may wish to use this defeat to boost their political ambitions, we will give the government the space to set out a plan to secure a better deal."
European response
Moments after the vote, European Council President Donald Tusk demanded the UK "clarify its intentions" on its plan "as soon as possible."
In a statement, Tusk said: "We will continue our preparations for all outcomes, including a no-deal scenario. The risk of a disorderly exit has increased with this vote and, while we do not want this to happen, we will be prepared for it."
In a tweet, Tusk also pointed out that the UK could unilaterally withdraw its notification to leave the EU: "If a deal is impossible, and no one wants no deal, then who will finally have the courage to say what the only positive solution is?"
President of the European Commission, Jean-Claude Juncker, also warned of the ticking clock. "I take note with regret of the outcome of the vote in the House of Commons this evening. I urge the UK to clarify its intentions as soon as possible. Time is almost up," Juncker wrote.
Will May's government fall and trigger an election?
Quote from: "Fashionista"
I don't think her government will fall just yet.
No, she will stay. The vote of no confidence will be defeated along party lines.
Its a NO DEAL separation now, as it always should have been.
Quote from: "Bricktop"
Its a NO DEAL separation now, as it always should have been.
I thought her party MP's wanted her gone. But, they would be gone too.
Quote from: "Bricktop"
Its a NO DEAL separation now, as it always should have been.
Wasn't the deal Theresa May proposed basically undoing a real Brexit?
May was never a believer in Brexit, so she attempted to do a deal with the EU that created a Brexit that wasn't a Brexit.
Specifically, no hard border with the Irish Republic. This was tantamount to leaving the back door open while you lock all the other doors and windows. Parliament would have none of it.
Quote from: "Bricktop"
Specifically, no hard border with the Irish Republic. This was tantamount to leaving the back door open while you lock all the other doors and windows. Parliament would have none of it.
I did hear the Northern Ireland border with the Irish Republic.was a problem.
British Prime Minister Theresa May's government narrowly survived a vote of no-confidence in Parliament Wednesday as her Conservative Party stuck together to push back an effort to oust the government -- despite May's colossal Brexit defeat a day earlier.
The House of Commons voted 325-306 in favor of the government and against the motion, as Conservative MPs and coalition allies The Democratic Unionist Party (DUP) stood together and fended off Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn's push for an eventual general election.
..... And yes, we will also continue to work to deliver on the solemn promise we made to the people of this country to deliver on the result of the referendum and leave the European Union."
[
Quote from: "cc"
British Prime Minister Theresa May's government narrowly survived a vote of no-confidence in Parliament Wednesday as her Conservative Party stuck together to push back an effort to oust the government -- despite May's colossal Brexit defeat a day earlier.
The House of Commons voted 325-306 in favor of the government and against the motion, as Conservative MPs and coalition allies The Democratic Unionist Party (DUP) stood together and fended off Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn's push for an eventual general election.
..... And yes, we will also continue to work to deliver on the solemn promise we made to the people of this country to deliver on the result of the referendum and leave the European Union."
[
Do you think leaving the EU is preferable cc?
I have thot for over a decade leaving was the UK's only chance to survive
Actually, it's too late now anyhow. Most of the damage cannot be undone
Quote from: "cc"
I should have said is leaving the EU without a deal is preferable?
Yes.
A deal is essentially half a Brexit...it will involve Europe still maintaining some level of influence over the sovereignty of the UK.
Don't know on that one. There are a lot of factors at work now that time has gone on and determination has weakened
The EU desperately needs them and would have worked out a good deal if UK had acted fast and strong
EU strategy is now to wait them out, knowing that the UK is not determined enough and that time now works for the EU
Edit: Brick nailed it
Quote from: "cc"
The EU desperately needs them and would have worked out a good deal if UK had acted fast and strong
EU strategy is now to wait them out, knowing that the UK is not determined enough and that time now works for the EU
I too believe the EU's strategy has always been delay, delay.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/no-deal-brexit-vote/2019/03/13/b79d2c86-4405-11e9-94ab-d2dda3c0df52_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.26faeff564dc
Quote
May said her government could ask the E.U. for a short extension to implement a deal if it passed by next week. If no deal is passed, May said she would be forced to seek a much longer delay.
BTW the Brexit referendum passed nearly 3 years ago (two years and 9 months) and has still not been implemented.
The UK is a democracy ac_toofunny yeah right :001_rolleyes:
Quote from: "Wazzzup"
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/no-deal-brexit-vote/2019/03/13/b79d2c86-4405-11e9-94ab-d2dda3c0df52_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.26faeff564dc
Quote
May said her government could ask the E.U. for a short extension to implement a deal if it passed by next week. If no deal is passed, May said she would be forced to seek a much longer delay.
BTW the Brexit referendum passed nearly 3 years ago (two years and 9 months) and has still not been implemented.
The UK is a democracy ac_toofunny yeah right :001_rolleyes:
I never expected Brexit to actually happen. The prog establishment does not give two shits about a referendum.
Quote from: "Wazzzup"
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/no-deal-brexit-vote/2019/03/13/b79d2c86-4405-11e9-94ab-d2dda3c0df52_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.26faeff564dc
Quote
May said her government could ask the E.U. for a short extension to implement a deal if it passed by next week. If no deal is passed, May said she would be forced to seek a much longer delay.
BTW the Brexit referendum passed nearly 3 years ago (two years and 9 months) and has still not been implemented.
The UK is a democracy ac_toofunny yeah right :001_rolleyes:
I saw on the news Britain can only delay it until June..
I believe any extension has to be ratified by all twenty seven EU members.
They did vote against holding a second referendum.
Westminster seems to be playing the same games with Brexit as Canada does with resource development, death by delay.
The ball is in the tiny DUP's court.
Quote
The DUP leader Arlene Foster said that her party "regrets" that it is unable to support PM Theresa May's current Brexit deal. It comes as May appears to have swayed some Tory rebels with her promise to quit post-Brexit.
The Democratic Unionist Party won't back the deal as long as it "poses a threat to the integrity of the UK," Foster told Sky News, repeating her party's earlier sentiment.
he DUP's support for May had been contingent on the PM offering a deal minus the so-called 'Irish backstop,' a measure that would see Northern Ireland remain in a customs union with the EU, avoiding the re-emergence of a hard border on the island of Ireland, but making the Irish Sea a de-facto customs barrier between Northern Ireland and the rest of the EU.
Foster's statement comes as MPs are voting on eight alternative Brexit proposals, including a Labour Party plan for a "softer Brexit" that would supposedly honor the results of the 2016 referendum while leaving room to negotiate with the EU.
In an effort to win support for her own Brexit agreement, May offered on Wednesday to resign in exchange for support for the deal from her Conservative Party colleagues. While a group of hardline Brexiteer MPs from Jacob Rees-Mogg's European Research Group caucus had previously held steady on their refusal to back May's plan, the BBC reported that 25 Tories "now changed their minds," possibly enticed by May's vow to step down.
Without the support of the DUP, however, an ERG spokesman earlier said that there is "no way" his group can provide enough votes to pass May's deal.
https://www.rt.com/uk/454923-dup-against-may-deal-conservatives/?utm_source=browser&utm_medium=push_notifications&utm_campaign=push_notifications
Whither the wind blows, May's days are numbered.
It's what happens when you try to run with the foxes while hunting with the hounds.
Just as the US will be permanently scarred by the Trump era (which is not to blame Trump specifically), Brexit will be a stain on British democratic processes for many years.
In both cases, it is the elected representatives in the respective Houses that have embarked on programs of obstruction, deflection, confusion and self interest, terminally wounding the principle of representation through elected members.
Trump and Brexit have exposed the deep flaws in a corrupt and dysfunctional system of government that is combative and adversarial at its heart.
The problem is we have no replacement strategy.
Brexit won't happen. The House of Commons will weasel out of the results or override the last referendum with another referendum.
And thus destroy any remaining semblance of democracy in the UK.
Referendums will become pointless, and ALL power will be in the hands of the political class.
Quote from: "iron horse jockey"
Britain's 'democracy", like our own and that of the US is a frickin joke.
The anti Brexiteers have bought a little more time. Delay after delay after delay.
May says she'll step down once U.K. leaves EU
LONDON — British Prime Minister Theresa May told Conservative lawmakers Wednesday she will step down once the U.K.'S exit from the European Union is delivered — a dramatic concession meant to bring enough of her colleagues on board to push her deal over the line.
May told a party meeting of legislators she was aware of a desire for a new approach — and new leadership — in the second phase of the Brexit negotiations.
"I am prepared to leave this job earlier than I intended in order to do what is right for our country and our party," she said, according to a transcript released by her office. "I ask everyone in this room to back the deal so we can complete our historic duty — to deliver on the decision of the British people and leave the European Union with a smooth and orderly exit."
May has been under mounting pressure from pro-brexit members of her Conservative Party to quit.
Several have said they would support the withdrawal deal if another leader was chosen to lead the next stage of negotiations, which will determine Britain's future relations with the EU.
In a packed meeting described by participants as "sombre," May finally conceded she would have to go, although she did not set a departure date.
Anti-eu lawmaker Jacob Rees-mogg, who has clashed with May throughout the Brexit process, said she had been "very clear" if Britain leaves the EU on May 22, she will quit soon after.
He said the prime minister had been "very dignified."
"She out her case well, and reiterated she had done her duty," he said.
May's announcement came as British lawmakers debated multiple options for leaving the EU as they sought to bring some clarity to the tortured Brexit process and stop the country tumbling out of the bloc within weeks with no exit plan in place.
After two overwhelming defeats for May's withdrawal agreement with the EU, the House of Commons seized control of the parliamentary timetable for debate and votes on a range of Brexit alternatives.
House of Commons Speaker John Bercow selected eight widely differing options for votes from a list of 16 submitted by lawmakers.
They include calls to leave the EU without a deal, to stay in the EU'S customs union and single market, to put any EU divorce deal to a public referendum, and to cancel Brexit if the prospect of a no-deal departure gets close.
Like the US, Britain has demonstrated that the idea of "representative" democracy is a farce.
Political parties have long manipulated the system to build a political class, which operates separately from the communities it is supposed to represent.
These idiots have openly stated they have been elected on the basis that they will exercise their own judgment when decisions are made. They have utterly failed to convey the views of their electorate into parliamentary (and congressional) debate.
We need a new dynamic and model in the relationship between politicians and the electorate. This one isn't working.
The British parliament can't agree on anything about Brexit.
Too busy fighting amongst themselves for more power.
Quote from: "Bricktop"
And how to get out of carrying out the results of a referendum.
Nigeel Farage has a new political party simply called Brexit. They are expected to do well in EU parliamentary elections.
The current government is collapsing hourly.
If May doesn't go, her party will revolt.
Quote from: "seoulbro"
Go Nigel. :thumbup:
Quote from: "iron horse jockey"
Quote from: "seoulbro"
Go Nigel. :thumbup:
Hear hear. A well deserved back lash against progtard globalism, establishment parties, and arrogant politicians a who have contempt for democracy.
Theresa May is going to resign as prime minister.
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Inevitable.
She resigned today - effective as soon as party chooses replacement
Good to see her get the boot, although to paraphrase the who--the new boss will probably be same as the old boss. BUT keep booting them till you get a good one.
Sadly Farage got a bit wimpy in Islam, but glad to see his brexit party picking up speed, hopefully that will become a viable alternative to the prog and prog lite parties that run the place now
Not like me to leave a post in limbo at at previous page bottom ... dozy today
this will explain above response
Quote
Exit Polls: Nigel Farage and Brexit Party Leading in Britain EU election with 37 Percent of Vote!
That said "officially" exit Polls and vote itself > 22:00 BST on Sunday 26 May
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "Wazzzup"
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/no-deal-brexit-vote/2019/03/13/b79d2c86-4405-11e9-94ab-d2dda3c0df52_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.26faeff564dc
Quote
May said her government could ask the E.U. for a short extension to implement a deal if it passed by next week. If no deal is passed, May said she would be forced to seek a much longer delay.
BTW the Brexit referendum passed nearly 3 years ago (two years and 9 months) and has still not been implemented.
The UK is a democracy ac_toofunny yeah right :001_rolleyes:
I saw on the news Britain can only delay it until June..
I believe any extension has to be ratified by all twenty seven EU members.
:thumbup: