Title: CP Trains airbrakes fail and crew of three killed as train plunges sixty metres into a river
Post by: Anonymous on February 05, 2019, 07:08:33 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 05, 2019, 07:08:33 PM
I am taking a few days off because of this.
Three Canadian Pacific Railway crew members who were killed early Monday in a train derailment east of Field, B.C., have been identified.Quote
For Tuesday's developments, see: TSB gives update on train derailment that killed 3 CP crew members
Conductor Dylan Paradis, engineer Andrew Dockrell and trainee Daniel Waldenberger-Bulmer were killed, according to CP, when the westbound freight train went off the tracks at about 1 a.m. MT. All three were on board the train at the time.
A union representative said earlier the train fell more than 60 metres from a bridge near the Alberta-British Columbia boundary.
Greg Edwards with the Teamsters Canada Rail Conference (TCRC) said the workers had just taken over the train when it happened.
Two were found near the locomotive, which landed in the Kicking Horse River, and the other was still inside.
"Everybody I've spoken with both within the company and within the union is just devastated by this," he said. "It's just terrible, terrible news."
The three victims were based out of Calgary, the union said, adding that Dockrell had more than two decades of railroad experience.
"I got the call in the middle of the night and it's one of the worst calls that you want to take," Edwards said.
Christopher Monette, TCRC's director of public affairs, said it was "a runaway train." He said the derailment happened shortly after the crew had started their shift in Field.
Edwards said speed was a factor in the derailment.
"It appears it left the track because it was going very quickly and it ran off the track," said Edwards.
Title: Re: CP Trains airbrakes fail and crew of three killed as train plunges sixty metres into a river
Post by: Bricktop on February 05, 2019, 07:09:40 PM
Post by: Bricktop on February 05, 2019, 07:09:40 PM
Title: Re: CP Trains airbrakes fail and crew of three killed as train plunges sixty metres into a river
Post by: Anonymous on February 05, 2019, 07:11:57 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 05, 2019, 07:11:57 PM
CALGARY — Investigators say a Canadian Pacific freight train was parked and began to move on its own before it derailed and killed three crew members on the Alberta-British Columbia boundary.Quote
The Transportation Safety Board says the westbound train had been parked on a grade with its air brakes applied for two hours near Field, B.C., early Monday when it started rolling.
Investigator James Carmichael said the crew had just boarded the train, but weren't yet ready to depart.
"It was not anything the crew did. The train started to move on its own,''
Title: Re: CP Trains airbrakes fail and crew of three killed as train plunges sixty metres into a river
Post by: Anonymous on February 05, 2019, 07:12:49 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 05, 2019, 07:12:49 PM
Did you know any of these men?Quote from: "Bricktop"
I know Andy Dockrell, the engineer. I did some training in Calgary with him. A good man.
Title: Re: CP Trains airbrakes fail and crew of three killed as train plunges sixty metres into a river
Post by: Bricktop on February 05, 2019, 07:13:36 PM
Post by: Bricktop on February 05, 2019, 07:13:36 PM
What makes a train move on its own?
Title: Re: CP Trains airbrakes fail and crew of three killed as train plunges sixty metres into a river
Post by: Anonymous on February 05, 2019, 07:15:55 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 05, 2019, 07:15:55 PM
Sad.Quote from: "Bricktop"
What makes a train move on its own?
The Partridge siding is at the steepest rail grade in North America. That's where the train was parked while waiting for crew change. Air systems can fail in extreme cold and particularly on a steep grade like that.
Title: Re: CP Trains airbrakes fail and crew of three killed as train plunges sixty metres into a river
Post by: Bricktop on February 05, 2019, 07:17:38 PM
Post by: Bricktop on February 05, 2019, 07:17:38 PM
Someone's head should roll.
Title: Re: CP Trains airbrakes fail and crew of three killed as train plunges sixty metres into a river
Post by: Anonymous on February 05, 2019, 07:41:23 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 05, 2019, 07:41:23 PM
Damn.Quote from: "Bricktop"
Someone's head should roll.
No rules were broken. No handbrakes need to be applied while there is a crew on a train. That will change. Railway operating rules are written in blood.
Title: Re: CP Trains airbrakes fail and crew of three killed as train plunges sixty metres into a river
Post by: Anonymous on February 05, 2019, 07:45:45 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 05, 2019, 07:45:45 PM
Title: Re: CP Trains airbrakes fail and crew of three killed as train plunges sixty metres into a river
Post by: Anonymous on February 05, 2019, 08:54:42 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 05, 2019, 08:54:42 PM
Did you know any of these men?Quote from: "Bricktop"
I know Andy Dockrell, the engineer. I did some training in Calgary with him. A good man.
What a tragic accident IHJ.
Title: Re: CP Trains airbrakes fail and crew of three killed as train plunges sixty metres into a river
Post by: Gaon on February 05, 2019, 10:53:34 PM
Post by: Gaon on February 05, 2019, 10:53:34 PM
Damn.Quote from: "Bricktop"
Someone's head should roll.
No rules were broken. No handbrakes need to be applied while there is a crew on a train. That will change. Railway operating rules are written in blood.
It's a shame they can't be proactive instead of reactive.
Title: Re: CP Trains airbrakes fail and crew of three killed as train plunges sixty metres into a river
Post by: Anonymous on February 06, 2019, 12:30:12 AM
Post by: Anonymous on February 06, 2019, 12:30:12 AM
Damn.Quote from: "Bricktop"
Someone's head should roll.
No rules were broken. No handbrakes need to be applied while there is a crew on a train. That will change. Railway operating rules are written in blood.
It's a shame they can't be proactive instead of reactive.
They could have exercised some common sense. Apply handbrakes when stopped in a siding on a steep grade when the temperature outside is -45.
Title: Re: CP Trains airbrakes fail and crew of three killed as train plunges sixty metres into a river
Post by: Frood on February 06, 2019, 07:38:20 AM
Post by: Frood on February 06, 2019, 07:38:20 AM
Sounds like a horrific scene.
Title: Re: CP Trains airbrakes fail and crew of three killed as train plunges sixty metres into a river
Post by: Anonymous on February 06, 2019, 08:40:53 AM
Post by: Anonymous on February 06, 2019, 08:40:53 AM
Sorry for your industry's loss, IHJ.Quote from: "Dinky Dianna"
Sounds like a horrific scene.
They just showed the conductor's wife and two toddler children on the morning news.
Title: Re: CP Trains airbrakes fail and crew of three killed as train plunges sixty metres into a river
Post by: Blazor on February 06, 2019, 10:09:56 AM
Post by: Blazor on February 06, 2019, 10:09:56 AM
But, anyone knows air systems don't work properly in extreme cold. My territory doesn't have steep grades like Alberta and British Columbia. But, I still know if I had to put the train into emergency it may not stop as fast as it is supposed to.Quote from: "iron horse jockey"
Hate to hear all this man. Dont know what to say really. I feel for the families for sure.
I use to do advertising for a local company that produced air brakes, but they got bought out by a larger French company recently. They supplied world wide. I did not know they failed in extreme cold like that.
Title: Re: CP Trains airbrakes fail and crew of three killed as train plunges sixty metres into a river
Post by: Anonymous on February 06, 2019, 10:14:58 AM
Post by: Anonymous on February 06, 2019, 10:14:58 AM
But, anyone knows air systems don't work properly in extreme cold. My territory doesn't have steep grades like Alberta and British Columbia. But, I still know if I had to put the train into emergency it may not stop as fast as it is supposed to.Quote from: "iron horse jockey"
Hate to hear all this man. Dont know what to say really. I feel for the families for sure.
I use to do advertising for a local company that produced air brakes, but they got bought out by a larger French company recently. They supplied world wide. I did not know they failed in extreme cold like that.
I did some reading after this tragedy. Apparently, not so much in trucks, but in three kilometre long trains, it can happen.
Title: Re: CP Trains airbrakes fail and crew of three killed as train plunges sixty metres into a river
Post by: Blurt on February 06, 2019, 11:15:53 AM
Post by: Blurt on February 06, 2019, 11:15:53 AM
Their deaths are made that much more tragic by the fact that they could've been avoided.
More blood for the eventual amending of regulations.
Take care of yourself, Jock.
Title: Re: CP Trains airbrakes fail and crew of three killed as train plunges sixty metres into a river
Post by: Anonymous on February 06, 2019, 11:30:11 AM
Post by: Anonymous on February 06, 2019, 11:30:11 AM
My condolences to the families of these men.Quote from: "Blurt"
Their deaths are made that much more tragic by the fact that they could've been avoided.
More blood for the eventual amending of regulations.
Take care of yourself, Jock.
Thanks Blurt. I am taking a few days off of work.
CROR rules are indeed written in blood. But, like I said previously that should not stop common sense fom being implemented. The terminal superintendent could have issued a General Bulletin Order(GBO) for Partridge siding to apply a specified number of handbrakes. Part of the problem is that we unionized employees don't want to go outside in extreme cold, hopping up and down on cars, and turning handbrakes. The company is to blame, especially at the mid management level, but conductors and engineers are part of the problem too. I have been with this company for nearly thirty years. This will be a wake up call to all of us.
Title: Re: CP Trains airbrakes fail and crew of three killed as train plunges sixty metres into a river
Post by: Bricktop on February 06, 2019, 05:49:35 PM
Post by: Bricktop on February 06, 2019, 05:49:35 PM
Title: Re: CP Trains airbrakes fail and crew of three killed as train plunges sixty metres into a river
Post by: Anonymous on February 06, 2019, 07:44:52 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 06, 2019, 07:44:52 PM
Did you know any of these men?Quote from: "Bricktop"
I know Andy Dockrell, the engineer. I did some training in Calgary with him. A good man.
My condolences Jock.
Title: Re: CP Trains airbrakes fail and crew of three killed as train plunges sixty metres into a river
Post by: cc on February 06, 2019, 11:11:54 PM
Post by: cc on February 06, 2019, 11:11:54 PM
Title: Re: CP Trains airbrakes fail and crew of three killed as train plunges sixty metres into a river
Post by: Anonymous on February 07, 2019, 02:23:03 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 07, 2019, 02:23:03 PM
Wasn't the handbrake issue involved in that terrible fire?Quote from: "cc"
It sure was, which is why the hog head was prosecuted. A train parked without a crew on board is required under CROR rules to have a prescribed number of handbrakes applied. The number is based on length and grade.
Those rules did not apply in Field BC because there was a crew on board. Expect a new rule very soon. But, as I said to Blurt, the terminal superintendent could have issued a GBO(General Bulletin Order) to apply handbrakes on steep grades even with crews on board. The problem is that we train men are lazy. We don't want to walk a half mile back hopping up and down on cars apply handbrakes.
Title: Re: CP Trains airbrakes fail and crew of three killed as train plunges sixty metres into a river
Post by: Anonymous on February 07, 2019, 04:58:04 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 07, 2019, 04:58:04 PM
Experienced problems with speed control before fatal derailment, source says
And he said one of three Calgary men killed had selflessly warned others of the runaway train he was aboard moments before his death.
Staff received an emergency alert late Sunday night that the 112-car, three-engine westbound train carrying grain had been having mechanical issues before it stopped for two hours at a small station above the dramatic descent to the Spiral Tunnels and the town of Field, said the man, who wouldn't give his name because he didn't have permission to speak publicly on the matter.
"They couldn't control the speed of the train, it wouldn't maintain the speed it should have," he said.
He said Andrew Dockrell, Daniel Waldenberger-bulmer and Dylan Paradis were then sent to relieve the train's original crew, because the time required to ease its length to Field would have extended well beyond their shift.
"It happens a couple of times every winter ... if the train has trouble, that's standard operating procedure," he said.
CP Train 301, which left Red Deer and was heading to Vancouver via Calgary, had halted for two hours at Partridge station before lurching forward and losing control for three kilometres along a challenging, serpentine stretch of mountain track.
Before that, retainers — devices meant to ensure the train's brakes don't lose pressure — would have been activated by the original crew and should have held, said the source.
It's possible temperatures well below
-20 C at the time could have impaired the train's air brakes, he said, something crews have dealt with before.
"We've had to leave a train at Banff because the air pressure wouldn't rise," he said.
The Transportation Safety Board (TSB) and CP Rail are investigating what caused the train's brakes to release without warning, sending it down the steep grade above the maximum 32 km/h speed for that stretch before derailing and plunging 60 metres to the Kicking Horse River, killing the three men on board.
Only 13 cars and the rear engine remained on the track.
CP Rail's main line through Field was reopened on Wednesday after "all necessary safety checks" were completed said Salem Woodrow, spokesperson for the railway. Crews and contractors will remain on scene "to remove the damaged rail cars and equipment."
On Tuesday, a TSB official said the relief crew had not been given permission to continue on to Field and had not caused the train to start moving.
The veteran railway source said even in the face of impending death, longtime locomotive engineer Dockrell issued a warning over a company radio about the out-ofcontrol train.
"He's pretty much a hero, calling the rail traffic controller to make sure to get everyone off of there, to get clear at Field," said the source.
When asked if the men should have been aboard a train that had already experienced control problems, the man said, "Somebody had to be on it ... this is a procedure we've done for all these years and it usually goes without incident."
Paradis was a conductor and father of two, while Waldenberger-bulmer, 26, had been a trainee since November.
TSB officials say they're seeking electronic data from the three locomotives, will conduct interviews and review the possible effects of weather conditions.
CP Rail's spokeswoman said she couldn't comment on the possible sequence of events.
Monday's disaster bears some "eerie similarities" to the fiery 2013 Lac-megantic, Que., railway crash in which a runaway train experiencing mechanical difficulties — and after a crew change — rolled down a steep incline, said academic Bruce Campbell, author of a book on the earlier tragedy that took 47 lives.
He questioned if increasingly lax regulatory regimes spanning Conservative and Liberal governments laid the groundwork for the latest incident.
"There's a lot of risk issues that haven't been addressed. I've been worried the window is still open for history to repeat," said Campbell, author of The Lac-megantic Rail Disaster: Public Betrayal, Justice Denied.
"There's a conflict between economics and safety."
Title: Re: CP Trains airbrakes fail and crew of three killed as train plunges sixty metres into a river
Post by: Thiel on February 07, 2019, 11:55:10 PM
Post by: Thiel on February 07, 2019, 11:55:10 PM
Title: Re: CP Trains airbrakes fail and crew of three killed as train plunges sixty metres into a river
Post by: Anonymous on February 08, 2019, 03:01:35 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 08, 2019, 03:01:35 PM
I don't know if this had anything to do with the train rolling on it's own.Quote from: "seoulbro"Doomed train had prior issues
Experienced problems with speed control before fatal derailment, source saysCALGARY — The freight train involved in a fatal derailment was flagged for speed control problems hours before its tragic plunge near Field, B.C., early Monday, says a veteran employee with Canadian Pacific Railway.
And he said one of three Calgary men killed had selflessly warned others of the runaway train he was aboard moments before his death.
Staff received an emergency alert late Sunday night that the 112-car, three-engine westbound train carrying grain had been having mechanical issues before it stopped for two hours at a small station above the dramatic descent to the Spiral Tunnels and the town of Field, said the man, who wouldn't give his name because he didn't have permission to speak publicly on the matter.
"They couldn't control the speed of the train, it wouldn't maintain the speed it should have," he said.
He said Andrew Dockrell, Daniel Waldenberger-bulmer and Dylan Paradis were then sent to relieve the train's original crew, because the time required to ease its length to Field would have extended well beyond their shift.
"It happens a couple of times every winter ... if the train has trouble, that's standard operating procedure," he said.
CP Train 301, which left Red Deer and was heading to Vancouver via Calgary, had halted for two hours at Partridge station before lurching forward and losing control for three kilometres along a challenging, serpentine stretch of mountain track.
Before that, retainers — devices meant to ensure the train's brakes don't lose pressure — would have been activated by the original crew and should have held, said the source.
It's possible temperatures well below
-20 C at the time could have impaired the train's air brakes, he said, something crews have dealt with before.
"We've had to leave a train at Banff because the air pressure wouldn't rise," he said.
The Transportation Safety Board (TSB) and CP Rail are investigating what caused the train's brakes to release without warning, sending it down the steep grade above the maximum 32 km/h speed for that stretch before derailing and plunging 60 metres to the Kicking Horse River, killing the three men on board.
Only 13 cars and the rear engine remained on the track.
CP Rail's main line through Field was reopened on Wednesday after "all necessary safety checks" were completed said Salem Woodrow, spokesperson for the railway. Crews and contractors will remain on scene "to remove the damaged rail cars and equipment."
On Tuesday, a TSB official said the relief crew had not been given permission to continue on to Field and had not caused the train to start moving.
The veteran railway source said even in the face of impending death, longtime locomotive engineer Dockrell issued a warning over a company radio about the out-ofcontrol train.
"He's pretty much a hero, calling the rail traffic controller to make sure to get everyone off of there, to get clear at Field," said the source.
When asked if the men should have been aboard a train that had already experienced control problems, the man said, "Somebody had to be on it ... this is a procedure we've done for all these years and it usually goes without incident."
Paradis was a conductor and father of two, while Waldenberger-bulmer, 26, had been a trainee since November.
TSB officials say they're seeking electronic data from the three locomotives, will conduct interviews and review the possible effects of weather conditions.
CP Rail's spokeswoman said she couldn't comment on the possible sequence of events.
Monday's disaster bears some "eerie similarities" to the fiery 2013 Lac-megantic, Que., railway crash in which a runaway train experiencing mechanical difficulties — and after a crew change — rolled down a steep incline, said academic Bruce Campbell, author of a book on the earlier tragedy that took 47 lives.
He questioned if increasingly lax regulatory regimes spanning Conservative and Liberal governments laid the groundwork for the latest incident.
"There's a lot of risk issues that haven't been addressed. I've been worried the window is still open for history to repeat," said Campbell, author of The Lac-megantic Rail Disaster: Public Betrayal, Justice Denied.
"There's a conflict between economics and safety."
The train rolled because the brakes released due to the extreme cold.
Title: Re: CP Trains airbrakes fail and crew of three killed as train plunges sixty metres into a river
Post by: Anonymous on February 08, 2019, 03:02:02 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 08, 2019, 03:02:02 PM
Was the locomotive engine on at the time the train started to roll?Quote from: "Thiel"
Yes.
Title: Re: CP Trains airbrakes fail and crew of three killed as train plunges sixty metres into a river
Post by: Anonymous on February 08, 2019, 07:46:24 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 08, 2019, 07:46:24 PM
The changes are effective immediately.
Title: Re: CP Trains airbrakes fail and crew of three killed as train plunges sixty metres into a river
Post by: Bricktop on February 09, 2019, 06:07:00 PM
Post by: Bricktop on February 09, 2019, 06:07:00 PM
Title: Re: CP Trains airbrakes fail and crew of three killed as train plunges sixty metres into a river
Post by: Anonymous on February 09, 2019, 07:39:04 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 09, 2019, 07:39:04 PM
As usual, the horse has disappeared over the horizon, and some bureaucrat thought it wise to close the gate.Quote from: "Bricktop"
IHJ said it could've happened at the local level, but the unionized employees were not so receptive.
Title: Re: CP Trains airbrakes fail and crew of three killed as train plunges sixty metres into a river
Post by: Bricktop on February 09, 2019, 07:43:24 PM
Post by: Bricktop on February 09, 2019, 07:43:24 PM