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General Discussion => The Flea Trap => Topic started by: Rancidmilko on April 09, 2019, 12:36:01 PM

Title: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Rancidmilko on April 09, 2019, 12:36:01 PM
So, in an era in which you can use automation to substitute almost all menial jobs, people are forcing business to raise the wages to whatever they feel is fair



Of course, anyone with two brain cells would know that would lead to mass closing of business and unemployment.



So, wouldn't it be better to make less money working honestly, instead of becoming another welfare leech living in misery?



Why is it that liberals destroy and fuck up everything they touch?



Are they too stupid to see the obvious harmful effects their policies will INVARIABLY bring?



Seriously, these people need to start being treated the way their stupid asses deserves. No more acting like they're just mischievous children.



They are dangerous and their behavior should warrant a response equivalent to the evil they represent.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Frood on April 09, 2019, 01:57:20 PM
You here to escort Bricktop away?
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on April 09, 2019, 02:05:52 PM
Quote from: "BALLSONARO"So, in an era in which you can use automation to substitute almost all menial jobs, people are forcing business to raise the wages to whatever they feel is fair



Of course, anyone with two brain cells would know that would lead to mass closing of business and unemployment.



So, wouldn't it be better to make less money working honestly, instead of becoming another welfare leech living in misery?



Why is it that liberals destroy and fuck up everything they touch?



Are they too stupid to see the obvious harmful effects their policies will INVARIABLY bring?



Seriously, these people need to start being treated the way their stupid deserves. No more acting like they're just mischievous children.



They are dangerous and their behavior should warrant a response equivalent to the evil they represent.

This discussion comes up regularly..



Higher minimum wages are destroying the tipping culture in my province..



Governments get more money, but not servers and small business owners.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on April 09, 2019, 03:14:35 PM
Quote from: "BALLSONARO"So, in an era in which you can use automation to substitute almost all menial jobs, people are forcing business to raise the wages to whatever they feel is fair



Of course, anyone with two brain cells would know that would lead to mass closing of business and unemployment.



So, wouldn't it be better to make less money working honestly, instead of becoming another welfare leech living in misery?



Why is it that liberals destroy and fuck up everything they touch?



Are they too stupid to see the obvious harmful effects their policies will INVARIABLY bring?



Seriously, these people need to start being treated the way their stupid deserves. No more acting like they're just mischievous children.



They are dangerous and their behavior should warrant a response equivalent to the evil they represent.

Minimum wage jobs are entry level jobs. People who earn minimum wage typically are entering the workforce or retirees supplementing their pensions. Minimum wage needs to be low enough to encourage workers to move up the job food chain. You don't want people getting a job at a car wash and staying there.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on April 09, 2019, 05:46:42 PM
I used to be a strong proponent of higher minimum wages. But, small business owners, who are not exactly rich, don't get a raise. And I know governments get a significant cut of any minimum wage increases. Perhaps seoulbro is right. Anybody making less than forty thousand bucks a year should not be paying much income tax.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Bricktop on April 09, 2019, 06:01:51 PM
Quote from: "iron horse jockey" But, small business owners, who are not exactly rich, don't get a raise.


That's their choice.



They can raise their prices.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on April 09, 2019, 06:17:19 PM
Quote from: "Bricktop"
Quote from: "iron horse jockey" But, small business owners, who are not exactly rich, don't get a raise.


That's their choice.



They can raise their prices.

That's risky. Lower minimum wages in North America does not necessarily mean that a server in Winnipeg is worse off financially than one in Adelaide. That is because of tipping. But, progressives want to control everything and they have no control over tipping.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Bricktop on April 09, 2019, 07:02:44 PM
What people are paid in other countries is no concern to how you treat people at home.



Ensuring people earn enough to live with a shred of decency is everyone's responsibility. As long as salaries are standard for ALL employers, none can claim an advantage by paying less than the business next door. They all pay the same minimum, and when that minimum is raised, they all pay the same increase.



That will mean, of course, that the price of a cup of coffee goes up 50 cents, and your cordon bleu will cost an extra dollar, but that's simply sharing the load. It seems that businesses in America don't seem to grasp the fact that a mandated MINIMUM wage benefits them as well.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on April 09, 2019, 07:14:05 PM
Quote from: "Bricktop"What people are paid in other countries is no concern to how you treat people at home.



Ensuring people earn enough to live with a shred of decency is everyone's responsibility. As long as salaries are standard for ALL employers, none can claim an advantage by paying less than the business next door. They all pay the same minimum, and when that minimum is raised, they all pay the same increase.



That will mean, of course, that the price of a cup of coffee goes up 50 cents, and your cordon bleu will cost an extra dollar, but that's simply sharing the load. It seems that businesses in America don't seem to grasp the fact that a mandated MINIMUM wage benefits them as well.

But, a higher minimum wage means less take home pay in my province..



We were generous tippers before the provincial government decided they deserved a raise.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Bricktop on April 09, 2019, 07:34:53 PM
That makes no sense.



Remember, tipping is merely tax avoidance. YOU pay THEIR tax liability.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on April 09, 2019, 11:54:52 PM
Quote from: "Bricktop"That makes no sense.



Remember, tipping is merely tax avoidance. YOU pay THEIR tax liability.

Low wage earners should not have been given an income tax bill in the first place. Trump took away their tax burden. Bernie Sanders wants to bring it back.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Bricktop on April 10, 2019, 12:19:02 AM
Which means that the leap from low tax to moderate tax will be of sufficient magnitude to be a disincentive for people to seek better paying jobs.



And middle income earners will pay more tax to cover the shortfall.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on April 10, 2019, 12:31:47 AM
Quote from: "Bricktop"Which means that the leap from low tax to moderate tax will be of sufficient magnitude to be a disincentive for people to seek better paying jobs.



And middle income earners will pay more tax to cover the shortfall.

Under Bernie, yes. Trump gave everyone back some of their money.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Bricktop on April 10, 2019, 01:00:45 AM
A grand gesture indeed...but the US is riding the tiger with its massive debt.



By contrast Australia is debt free, AND we have minimum wage and universal health care, combined with a fairly generous welfare system.



To be fair, our standard of living is not quite as high...but a Volkswagen will get you to point A just as quick as a Bentley.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on April 10, 2019, 01:05:17 AM
Quote from: "Bricktop"A grand gesture indeed...but the US is riding the tiger with its massive debt.



By contrast Australia is debt free, AND we have minimum wage and universal health care, combined with a fairly generous welfare system.



To be fair, our standard of living is not quite as high...but a Volkswagen will get you to point A just as quick as a Bentley.

As of 11 April 2017, the gross Australian government debt was $551.75 billion.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Bricktop on April 10, 2019, 01:08:22 AM
As of last budget...zero.



"Restoring the nation's finances by charting a responsible path to surplus



After more than a decade of deficits, the budget returns to surplus in 2019-20.



It has been a long road from where this process started when the Government was first elected.



In 2013-14, some five years after the Global Financial Crisis, the deficit was still the second highest in Australia's history. Since then, the Government has made steady progress to repair the budget and chart a responsible path back to surplus.



The total turnaround in the budget balance between 2013-14 and 2019-20 is projected to be $55.5 billion, or 3.4 per cent of GDP.



The Government's plan for a stronger economy ensures it can guarantee essential services while returning the budget to surplus."
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on April 10, 2019, 01:14:10 AM
Quote from: "Bricktop"As of last budget...zero.



"Restoring the nation's finances by charting a responsible path to surplus



After more than a decade of deficits, the budget returns to surplus in 2019-20.



It has been a long road from where this process started when the Government was first elected.



In 2013-14, some five years after the Global Financial Crisis, the deficit was still the second highest in Australia's history. Since then, the Government has made steady progress to repair the budget and chart a responsible path back to surplus.



The total turnaround in the budget balance between 2013-14 and 2019-20 is projected to be $55.5 billion, or 3.4 per cent of GDP.



The Government's plan for a stronger economy ensures it can guarantee essential services while returning the budget to surplus."

That's deficit. You guys had eleven straight years of deficits. That is now debt.



Federally, our debt load is low and manageable. But, some provinces in Canada have extremely high debt levels. Ontario has the highest sub sovereign debt in the world. And our living standards and services are n decline because we can't get our resources to international markets.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Bricktop on April 10, 2019, 02:41:42 AM
You need a new leader.



Pronto.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on April 10, 2019, 08:51:42 AM
Quote from: "Bricktop"You need a new leader.



Pronto.

I never though government could really affect anything..



Our premier and Trudeau have worked in unison to destroy resource based jobs.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Wazzzup on April 10, 2019, 09:31:35 AM
According to the New York Post, a once growing service industry in New York is now seeing staff cuts, hours being shortened, and prices going up thanks to New York's $15/hr minimum wage hike, and it's not small:
QuoteA total of 76.5 percent of full-service restaurant respondents reduced employee hours, and 36 percent eliminated jobs in 2018, the survey said.



Also, 75 percent of limited-service restaurant respondents reported that they will reduce employee hours, and 53 percent will eliminate jobs in 2019 as a result of the wage increases, according to the survey.

"The results of this survey, and other industry trends, signal that a once-growing industry responsible for hundreds of thousands of jobs and billions of dollars in economic impact has become stagnant," said the Hospitality Alliance, who conducted the study.[/quote]
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on April 10, 2019, 10:52:27 AM
Quote from: "Wazzzup"According to the New York Post, a once growing service industry in New York is now seeing staff cuts, hours being shortened, and prices going up thanks to New York's $15/hr minimum wage hike, and it's not small:
QuoteA total of 76.5 percent of full-service restaurant respondents reduced employee hours, and 36 percent eliminated jobs in 2018, the survey said.



Also, 75 percent of limited-service restaurant respondents reported that they will reduce employee hours, and 53 percent will eliminate jobs in 2019 as a result of the wage increases, according to the survey.

"The results of this survey, and other industry trends, signal that a once-growing industry responsible for hundreds of thousands of jobs and billions of dollars in economic impact has become stagnant," said the Hospitality Alliance, who conducted the study.
[/quote]
The same thing happened in Ontario.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Bricktop on April 10, 2019, 06:05:51 PM
Quote from: "Wazzzup"According to the New York Post, a once growing service industry in New York is now seeing staff cuts, hours being shortened, and prices going up thanks to New York's $15/hr minimum wage hike, and it's not small:
QuoteA total of 76.5 percent of full-service restaurant respondents reduced employee hours, and 36 percent eliminated jobs in 2018, the survey said.



Also, 75 percent of limited-service restaurant respondents reported that they will reduce employee hours, and 53 percent will eliminate jobs in 2019 as a result of the wage increases, according to the survey.

"The results of this survey, and other industry trends, signal that a once-growing industry responsible for hundreds of thousands of jobs and billions of dollars in economic impact has become stagnant," said the Hospitality Alliance, who conducted the study.
[/quote]

This, of course, is a nonsense.



If this report is to be believed, what it is really saying is that businesses who have relied on insubstantial wages to make the owners a profit have been able to employ more people because their salaries are a pittance that are subsidised by customers generosity.



Would YOU work for small change, and hope that the people you provide a service to generously reward you rather than the employer? I sure as hell wouldn't.



The business model that provides remuneration based on the discretion of customers is disgraceful. Proponents are saying that just because some people are employed in restaurants, they forfeit a reasonable, reliable and fair wage whilst everyone else is remunerated more generously and fairly.



Tipping is a cop out by employers. It is unfair to them as well as staff, and enables people to receive a wage without paying tax.



Providing a minimum wage is fair and reasonable...and if tipping is thus phased out, will have no effect on how much the consumer pays.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on April 11, 2019, 12:59:27 AM
The same thing happened in two Canadian provinces that raised their minimum wages too much and too fast. If asked, most restaurant and bar staff don't want their wages raised by governments. Tips are better than a higher minimum wage.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Bricktop on April 11, 2019, 01:19:03 AM
Of course they are.



They don't pay tax on them!!!



So why don't we remunerate ALL workers who provide a service in this manner. How about nurses? Retail assistants? Rubbish collectors?



The fact is this whole issue is focussed on ONE vocation...service in the food industry. They are no less deserving of a living wage than anyone else.



Any business that goes broke because it has to pay a reasonable wage to its staff shouldn't be in business in the first place.



And if they pay no tax, everyone else is paying it for them.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on April 11, 2019, 09:30:30 AM
Quote from: "Bricktop"Of course they are.



They don't pay tax on them!!!



So why don't we remunerate ALL workers who provide a service in this manner. How about nurses? Retail assistants? Rubbish collectors?



The fact is this whole issue is focussed on ONE vocation...service in the food industry. They are no less deserving of a living wage than anyone else.



Any business that goes broke because it has to pay a reasonable wage to its staff shouldn't be in business in the first place.



And if they pay no tax, everyone else is paying it for them.

I'm the only person here who's worked as a server..



Servers made a living wage, but the government decided they wanted to live better off of our wages..



The tipping culture was not broken..



Single mothers supported children on tips..



Raising the minimum wage when nobody asked for it, has the affect of lowering wages.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on April 11, 2019, 11:30:56 AM
Facts about rapid arbitrary government imposed increases in  minimum wages:



-It has reduced incomes for hospitality workers it was supposed to help

-Employment hours in the hospitality sector have been cut

-Higher wages means higher costs for small business owners who were just barely getting by in the first place

-It raised prices for consumers

-Fewer applicants are seeking hospitality positions as tip incentive is disappearing

-Revenues have risen marginally as people at the bottom of the employment ladder finance fiscally reckless governments
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Bricktop on April 11, 2019, 06:40:31 PM
Why, then, isn't Australia's hospitality industry in ruin?



If that industry has been established by a remuneration model that is unfair, then it is time it was brought into line.



I would rather see those employed being paid a fair wage than many people being exploited by being paid a pittance.



Perhaps those of you who find this unfair would take a pay cut to allow YOUR employer to add more staff?
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on April 11, 2019, 08:19:59 PM
Quote from: "Bricktop"Why, then, isn't Australia's hospitality industry in ruin?



If that industry has been established by a remuneration model that is unfair, then it is time it was brought into line.



I would rather see those employed being paid a fair wage than many people being exploited by being paid a pittance.



Perhaps those of you who find this unfair would take a pay cut to allow YOUR employer to add more staff?

We have always had an incentive based pay system in our hospitality industry. As a socialist, I am on the side of people who work in that industry. If they are happy with living on tips, I support them. If the government decides it's not in their interests and decides to change it unilaterally I am suspicious of their motives.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Bricktop on April 11, 2019, 10:51:49 PM
How can you be happy living on uncertain and capricious gestures by customers?



Try getting finance, and telling the broker you get paid $8 per hour...plus tips.



You can be sure that 12 months after the minimum wage is applied, they will resist any attempt to go back to "the good old days".
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on April 12, 2019, 12:05:00 PM
Quote from: "Bricktop"How can you be happy living on uncertain and capricious gestures by customers?



Try getting finance, and telling the broker you get paid $8 per hour...plus tips.



You can be sure that 12 months after the minimum wage is applied, they will resist any attempt to go back to "the good old days".

How can anyone be happy with higher take home pay? Are you serious?



A lot of Canadians pay is incentive based. I get paid by the mile. My train is stuck in a siding, I don't earn money. I had no trouble qualifying for a mortgage. This is Canada after all. We like heavy consumer debt.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Bricktop on April 12, 2019, 06:51:16 PM
They don't get higher take home pay....because tips are not salary.



They MAY get more money...they may get less. But when they apply for finance, they can only supply their actual salary, not tips.



You are paid by the measure of your productivity...miles travelled, rather than hours on the job. You are not paid a pittance, and hope that your passengers drop a buck in a tip bucket on the way out of the station (in your case...the freight). I'm going out on a limb here, but I will presume that there is a minimum number of miles available per year, and your salary per mile is rather generous to compensate for the fluctuation in available miles. If that is not the case, your union has failed you badly.



There is no vague, hidden and unaccounted for payments in your salary.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on April 12, 2019, 10:07:56 PM
Quote from: "Bricktop"They don't get higher take home pay....because tips are not salary.



They MAY get more money...they may get less. But when they apply for finance, they can only supply their actual salary, not tips.



You are paid by the measure of your productivity...miles travelled, rather than hours on the job. You are not paid a pittance, and hope that your passengers drop a buck in a tip bucket on the way out of the station (in your case...the freight). I'm going out on a limb here, but I will presume that there is a minimum number of miles available per year, and your salary per mile is rather generous to compensate for the fluctuation in available miles. If that is not the case, your union has failed you badly.



There is no vague, hidden and unaccounted for payments in your salary.

That's not entirely true..



If one declares their income they pay tax on it..



Almost any servers at one time were making twenty dollars per hour minimum..



If you declare it all, you qualify for a mortgage, but you tax on it..



What people do is declare their full income one time only to qualify and that is it.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Bricktop on April 13, 2019, 07:03:24 PM
And then for the rest of the time they are tax dodgers?



And you're OK paying MORE tax to compensate those that avoid paying their fair share?



If they avoid tax, they are, in effect tax dodgers.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on December 15, 2021, 12:23:17 PM
Small businesses in Ontario are having a hard enough time now paying the bills. The Ontario NDP's pitch to raise the minimum wage here to $20 will force a new business model and many will not be able to adapt.



By Matthew Lau of Sun News Media



Minimum wage hike will hurt — not help — vulnerable workers



B.C.'s minimum-wage law in 1925 was meant to price Japanese immigrants out of jobs. Racist labour unions in the United States similarly advocated for minimum wage laws to oppress Black people.



[size=150]The Liberals and Conservatives have strayed so far to the interventionist side of the economic policy spectrum that the NDP must work hard to make headlines.

[/size]

Enter the [size=150]Ontario NDP's recent proposal for a $20 hourly minimum wage through steady increases over the next five years.

[/size]

In reality, high wages can't be legislated. If a worker's hourly productive output (the amount she contributes to a business' bottom line) is below the stated minimum, an employer would be able to offer her a job only by losing money. Raising the minimum wage, by raising the minimum level of productivity a worker needs to be employable, makes more workers unemployable.



Moreover, the workers most negatively affected are the most disadvantaged in the labour force — those with the least experience, least skills, least education and fewest qualifications — and populations that suffer most from racial or other forms of unfair discrimination. Far from being an action of compassion, raising the minimum wage is actually an act of cruelty.



In fact, the first minimum-wage laws passed a century ago were intentionally cruel. British Columbia's minimum-wage law in 1925 was meant to price Japanese immigrants out of jobs. Racist labour unions in the United States similarly advocated for minimum-wage laws to oppress Black people. In apartheid South Africa, too, minimum-wage laws were used to encourage discrimination.



Even if the stated intentions of minimum wages have since improved, the harmful effects remain. [size=150]Notwithstanding claims that minimum-wage hikes do not kill jobs, a recent review by economists David Neumark and Peter Shirley of U.S. studies over the past three decades found clear evidence of negative employment effects, especially among teenagers and the less-educated.

[/size]

Canadian studies find similar results — employment losses for the least advantaged members of the labour force, including immigrants. Canadian research on the minimum wage destroying jobs includes reports commissioned by the Ontario government in 2007 and in 2014, and a paper from an Ontario government-sponsored think-tank in 2014 and an analysis from the province's Financial Accountability Office in 2017.



By proposing $20 minimumwage legislation, the Ontario NDP presumably believes that large numbers of Ontario workers — whose labour is worth at least $20 per hour — are being underpaid and exploited by employers who pay them less. It's a presumption that the actions of politicians suggest have no reasonable basis.



Indeed, if any politician of any political stripe believes there are many workers whose labour is worth $20 hourly yet are being paid only the current minimum wage, then she should leave politics to become an entrepreneur. She could launch businesses to hire these hundreds of thousands of workers, offering to pay them, say, $17 hourly — which would represent a significant wage increase for these workers.



She could then pocket the $3 difference (the $20 she says those workers are worth, minus the $17 wage), multiplied by 2,000 hours per worker per year, and then multiplied by the hundreds of thousands of presumably underpaid workers in Ontario.



By putting her money where her mouth is, she could make herself fabulously wealthy, all the while raising wages for the province's lowest-paid workers.



But if politicians who push for higher minimum wages don't put their money where their mouth is, we might reasonably conclude they don't have much confidence in their claims about minimum wages. Neither, then, should we.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Bricktop on December 15, 2021, 05:01:28 PM
This is, of course, nonsense.



What the author apparently fails to understand is that a minimum wage is applied to ALL businesses.



Employers don't fund the salaries. Customers do. By applying a minimum wage, all employers are playing on a level playing field, and so all will pass the cost of staff on to their customers via their price of goods sold. Equally.



Thus the price of providing people with a minimum wage that is fair and consistently applied is carried by the customer. ALL customers. And nothing in this model prevents tipping if customers so decide.



Virtually every employee in Australia, and probably Canada are afforded a minimum wage for the work they do.



Why should those employed in hospitality be any different.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on December 15, 2021, 05:07:52 PM
Quote from: Bricktop post_id=430929 time=1639605688 user_id=1560
This is, of course, nonsense.



What the author apparently fails to understand is that a minimum wage is applied to ALL businesses.



Employers don't fund the salaries. Customers do. By applying a minimum wage, all employers are playing on a level playing field, and so all will pass the cost of staff on to their customers via their price of goods sold. Equally.



Thus the price of providing people with a minimum wage that is fair and consistently applied is carried by the customer. ALL customers. And nothing in this model prevents tipping if customers so decide.



Virtually every employee in Australia, and probably Canada are afforded a minimum wage for the work they do.



Why should those employed in hospitality be any different.

I worked as a waitress when the minimum wage was much lower, and on weekends I made more than the owners who had their life's savings in the restaurant..



A rapidly increasing minimum wage is a big problem for small business owners.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: cc on December 15, 2021, 05:20:35 PM
Quote from: Bricktop post_id=430929 time=1639605688 user_id=1560
Why should those employed in hospitality be any different.

The argument has to do with tipping.



Savvy  customers tip because they know tips are the employees main source of income.



There are examples where bar & restaurant workers lost a lot of money when min. wage was increased significantly
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Bricktop on December 15, 2021, 05:57:50 PM
I suspect those examples are more anecdotal than supported by data.



And nobody has said tipping is discontinued.



"A rapidly increasing minimum wage is a big problem for small business owners." I don't know what this means. Why is a minimum wage "rapidly increasing". Minimum wages are indexed. And nothing prevents business owners from paying more to their most valued staff. It is a MINIMUM wage, not an absolute wage. It is fair to ALL employees, not just those who work in 5 star restaurants where wealthy customers go to be indulged.



People who serve you in burger restaurants have to live to.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on December 15, 2021, 06:00:29 PM
Quote from: cc post_id=430932 time=1639606835 user_id=88
Quote from: Bricktop post_id=430929 time=1639605688 user_id=1560
Why should those employed in hospitality be any different.

The argument has to do with tipping.



Savvy  customers tip because they know tips are the employees main source of income.



There are examples where bar & restaurant workers lost a lot of money when min. wage was increased significantly

Government got an increase in pay(taxes), but employees and employers took a loss when the minimum wage was quickly increased.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on December 15, 2021, 06:16:02 PM
Quote from: Bricktop post_id=430935 time=1639609070 user_id=1560
I suspect those examples are more anecdotal than supported by data.



And nobody has said tipping is discontinued.



"A rapidly increasing minimum wage is a big problem for small business owners." I don't know what this means. Why is a minimum wage "rapidly increasing". Minimum wages are indexed. And nothing prevents business owners from paying more to their most valued staff. It is a MINIMUM wage, not an absolute wage. It is fair to ALL employees, not just those who work in 5 star restaurants where wealthy customers go to be indulged.



People who serve you in burger restaurants have to live to.

Profit margins are razor thin in the hospitality industry. Most resaturants don't survive the first year. Payroll is one of their biggest expenses. If restauranteurs are forced by provincial/state governments to increase wages beyond their ability to make ends meet they must either find efficiencies or increase prices. Most opt for a mixture of the two and raise prices a bit and lower wages through increases in productivity(fewer employees doing more).



But, why raise minimum wage in the first place in the hospitiality industry. Who benefits from it? Cerainly not business owners. And not even the employees who had their salaries increased by law.



Of respondents who reported a minimum wage increase, however, 73% said that their take home pay—restaurant wages and tips—has not increased.

(//%3C/s%3E%3CURL%20url=%22https://upserve.com/media/sites/2/Minimum-Wage-Take-Home-Pay-2.jpg%22%3E%3CLINK_TEXT%20text=%22https://upserve.com/media/sites/2/Minim%20...%20-Pay-2.jpg%22%3Ehttps://upserve.com/media/sites/2/Minimum-Wage-Take-Home-Pay-2.jpg%3C/LINK_TEXT%3E%3C/URL%3E%3Ce%3E)

This is from the US, but it applies to Canada as well.



Higher minimum wage is a scam leftist governments use to increase revenue on the backs of lowest paid workers and business proprietors.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Bricktop on December 15, 2021, 06:51:16 PM
Quote from: seoulbro post_id=430938 time=1639610162 user_id=114


This is from the US, but it applies to Canada as well.



Higher minimum wage is a scam leftist governments use to increase revenue on the backs of lowest paid workers and business proprietors.


Perhaps, then, if living from tips is such a bonus to all, maybe all occupations should revert to a "customer funded" model.



Bureaucrats, for example, shall be paid in accordance with how the taxpayer feels their issues have been managed.



Used car salesman will get remunerated by how good the deal is on the car sale.



Cops will get tips on how nicely they issued the traffic citation.



Let's all move to a gratuity based economy if it so beneficial to all. Why should the hospitality industry be the only one sharing the good loot.



And again, I repeat that the rise in cost affecting their bottom line is a myth. A rise in business cost is only relevant if you are spending more on your business than a competitor, who than passes on cost savings to their customer, taking away from your business.



Minimum wage levels the salary playing field. Every business has the same salary base. Any discrepancy in the cost of doing business is on factors other than staff wages when comparing competitors.



And if a restaurant doesn't last a year, it sure isn't employee wages that caused it to fail.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on December 15, 2021, 07:07:56 PM
Quote from: Bricktop post_id=430946 time=1639612276 user_id=1560
Quote from: seoulbro post_id=430938 time=1639610162 user_id=114


This is from the US, but it applies to Canada as well.



Higher minimum wage is a scam leftist governments use to increase revenue on the backs of lowest paid workers and business proprietors.


Perhaps, then, if living from tips is such a bonus to all, maybe all occupations should revert to a "customer funded" model.



Bureaucrats, for example, shall be paid in accordance with how the taxpayer feels their issues have been managed.



Used car salesman will get remunerated by how good the deal is on the car sale.



Cops will get tips on how nicely they issued the traffic citation.



Let's all move to a gratuity based economy if it so beneficial to all. Why should the hospitality industry be the only one sharing the good loot.



And again, I repeat that the rise in cost affecting their bottom line is a myth. A rise in business cost is only relevant if you are spending more on your business than a competitor, who than passes on cost savings to their customer, taking away from your business.



Minimum wage levels the salary playing field. Every business has the same salary base. Any discrepancy in the cost of doing business is on factors other than staff wages when comparing competitors.



And if a restaurant doesn't last a year, it sure isn't employee wages that caused it to fail.

The hospitality industry is generally not a career. For many if not most, it's casual employment. Could it be applied to other industries? Incentive based pay has, but the civil service in Canada is used to being paid whether they perform well or not.



And again, I repeat the only way to stay afloat for most restauranteurs is they cut labour costs or raise prices. Australia's hospitality industry is far more efficient than their counterparts in Canada and the US as they've had a liong time to adapt. Jobs will be lost in the industry, and those who remain will be forced to be more productive plus costs for patrons will rise. And on top of that the people the legislation was supposed to help have not earned a dollar more. What is the point of arbitariarily forcing this on proprietors, and employees. Oh wait, more tax money for greedy governments who feign caring for low income workers.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on December 15, 2021, 07:29:56 PM
From the US, but applies to Canada.

(//%3C/s%3E%3CURL%20url=%22https://upserve.com/media/sites/2/Minimum-Wage-Increase-Server-Perception-2.jpg%22%3E%3CLINK_TEXT%20text=%22https://upserve.com/media/sites/2/Minim%20...%20tion-2.jpg%22%3Ehttps://upserve.com/media/sites/2/Minimum-Wage-Increase-Server-Perception-2.jpg%3C/LINK_TEXT%3E%3C/URL%3E%3Ce%3E)
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on December 15, 2021, 08:24:54 PM
Quote from: seoulbro post_id=430952 time=1639614596 user_id=114
From the US, but applies to Canada.

(//%3C/s%3E%3CURL%20url=%22https://upserve.com/media/sites/2/Minimum-Wage-Increase-Server-Perception-2.jpg%22%3E%3CLINK_TEXT%20text=%22https://upserve.com/media/sites/2/Minim%20...%20tion-2.jpg%22%3Ehttps://upserve.com/media/sites/2/Minimum-Wage-Increase-Server-Perception-2.jpg%3C/LINK_TEXT%3E%3C/URL%3E%3Ce%3E)

I know some people have worked as servers like I did, but got out when the former government raised the minimum wage, but lowered their incomes.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Bricktop on December 15, 2021, 08:26:18 PM
I repeat...tipping is NOT removed.



That would be impossible.



Employees must be paid a fair wage for a fair days work.



If 5 people come into the restaurant in a single day, why should the employee lose money? They have no control over how the business is managed and marketed.



If you asked the same question of Australian hospitality workers, there is NO way they would wish to subsist on gratuity. The industry attracts workers because it offers fair reward. America, and perhaps Canada, have embedded tipping into its economic culture. How can they answer the question of "would they prefer a reliable wage" when they've never had that opportunity.



You might as well ask a Chinese if he would prefer McDonalds over the Golden Lotus restaurant.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: cc on December 15, 2021, 08:33:25 PM
Quote from: Bricktop post_id=430962 time=1639617978 user_id=1560 America, and perhaps Canada, have embedded tipping into its economic culture.



How can they answer?r the question of "would they prefer a reliable wage" when they've never had that opportunity.

It has been answered several times. Several  cities have tried it and it became hard to get employees as their take-home was lowered greatly



Fash has experience in the industry and is spot on with what happens when it is tried



Whether bar & restaurant employees would get a fair wage is not the problem. That they will make a lot less is the problem ... It is only the tipping that makes the job attractive to them .. they have the opportunity to earn more by working better for clients
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Bricktop on December 15, 2021, 08:37:41 PM
This doesn't address the question.



Where's the data and references. How much was their take home pay relative to gratuities? Why did gratuities not continue? What is their industry award rate?



Failure may not be because of the principle, but because of inept practice.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: cc on December 15, 2021, 08:41:37 PM
It IS the question



Stats would be difficult to locate if they even exist.



Bottom line is that it failed miserably wherever it was attempted - I'm only referring to the food / beverage industry where tips can become a very good wage for those who do their job well .. some can make 2 or 3 times or even more than any minimum wage .. so the "good ones" move on to greener pastures ... leaving employers with no one and / or inferior help (both of which is a disaster to the businesses)



Just today mate left a 5$ tip for a very good lunch waiter who always goes the extra mile. That person had several tables on the go + current minimum wage. It doesn't take a mathematician to figure what's what

They share with cooking staff meaning as known regulars we also get "extra attention" & "perfect for us cooking" .. extra lemon etc. etc.  ..



 it's a win/win for all 3 of us parties
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on December 15, 2021, 09:26:22 PM
Quote from: Bricktop post_id=430962 time=1639617978 user_id=1560
I repeat...tipping is NOT removed.



That would be impossible.



Employees must be paid a fair wage for a fair days work.



If 5 people come into the restaurant in a single day, why should the employee lose money? They have no control over how the business is managed and marketed.



If you asked the same question of Australian hospitality workers, there is NO way they would wish to subsist on gratuity. The industry attracts workers because it offers fair reward. America, and perhaps Canada, have embedded tipping into its economic culture. How can they answer the question of "would they prefer a reliable wage" when they've never had that opportunity.



You might as well ask a Chinese if he would prefer McDonalds over the Golden Lotus restaurant.

I know this is hard for an Aussie to understand. Fash is an ex waitress as is one of my sisters.



I will bet anything wait staff in Canada earned more money than people doing similar jobs in Australia before they started raising the minimum wage which raised the price of food which is kiling the tipping culture.



You clear $300 on a Saturday night vs paying taxes on $140. Which would you prefer? And even covering the slow nights, they still do better in a week than under Australia's straight wage system. They can't find people to serve anymore since they jacked up the minimum wage. Nobody likes it, escept for governments like the Seoul brother said.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on December 15, 2021, 09:30:03 PM
Quote from: cc post_id=430968 time=1639618897 user_id=88
It IS the question



Stats would be difficult to locate if they even exist.



Bottom line is that it failed miserably wherever it was attempted - I'm only referring to the food / beverage industry where tips can become a very good wage for those who do their job well .. some can make 2 or 3 times or even more than any minimum wage .. so the "good ones" move on to greener pastures ... leaving employers with no one and / or inferior help (both of which is a disaster to the businesses)



Just today mate left a 5$ tip for a very good lunch waiter who always goes the extra mile. That person had several tables on the go + current minimum wage. It doesn't take a mathematician to figure what's what

They share with cooking staff meaning as known regulars we also get "extra attention" & "perfect for us cooking" .. extra lemon etc. etc.  ..



 it's a win/win for all 3 of us parties

The tipping culture still exists in Saskatcherwan. We haven't gotten stupid with the minimum wage increases like other provinces have. A good server here can make a wage to buy a house on. To go on a foreign holiday, buy a toy like a quad.  That would be damn near impossible in Australia.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on December 15, 2021, 09:57:30 PM
Everybody is probably wondering what does Shen Li think about this? How would Shen Li handle this?



Relax people, I will answer your questions. I'm tipping less as restaurant prices have gone up.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Odinson on December 15, 2021, 10:04:19 PM
We dont have that tipping culture.



The waiters and waitresses get hourly rates.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on December 15, 2021, 10:27:01 PM
Quote from: Odinson post_id=430980 time=1639623859 user_id=136
We dont have that tipping culture.



The waiters and waitresses get hourly rates.

They probably earn less than what servers used to make here before the government decided tipping is bad.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Bricktop on December 15, 2021, 10:45:35 PM
I will absolutely guarantee you that those who earned a living on tips did not declare their income correctly for taxation purposes.



Anyone who claims they did so is having us on.



If you declared your full income and paid tax on it, I wonder how much you'd have in your pocket then.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on December 15, 2021, 10:56:57 PM
Quote from: Bricktop post_id=430991 time=1639626335 user_id=1560
I will absolutely guarantee you that those who earned a living on tips did not declare their income correctly for taxation purposes.



Anyone who claims they did so is having us on.



If you declared your full income and paid tax on it, I wonder how much you'd have in your pocket then.

Fash might have, but no other waitress has ever done that.



This is the real reason why libtards are so gung ho to raise the minimum wage even though the people their legislation is supposed to help don't want it. Wages go up, so do marginal tax rates. Governments get more $$. Servers get less.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on December 15, 2021, 11:10:28 PM
Quote from: "Shen Li" post_id=430997 time=1639627017 user_id=56
Quote from: Bricktop post_id=430991 time=1639626335 user_id=1560
I will absolutely guarantee you that those who earned a living on tips did not declare their income correctly for taxation purposes.



Anyone who claims they did so is having us on.



If you declared your full income and paid tax on it, I wonder how much you'd have in your pocket then.

Fash might have, but no other waitress has ever done that.



This is the real reason why libtards are so gung ho to raise the minimum wage even though the people their legislation is supposed to help don't want it. Wages go up, so do marginal tax rates. Governments get more $$. Servers get less.

It's working the way politicians knew it would.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Bricktop on December 15, 2021, 11:45:41 PM
So, is there a reason that hospitality workers should not pay their fair share of tax?
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Frood on December 15, 2021, 11:57:58 PM
No tax is fair. Taxation is theft no matter the window dressing.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Bricktop on December 15, 2021, 11:59:49 PM
Whilst not entirely unsympathetic to that principle, how are YOU going to pay for the highway to Melbourne, then?
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Frood on December 16, 2021, 12:08:18 AM
Quote from: Bricktop post_id=431021 time=1639630789 user_id=1560
Whilst not entirely unsympathetic to that principle, how are YOU going to pay for the highway to Melbourne, then?


It isn't well maintained as it is.... full of potholes and crumbling.



It would be better to allow them to revert to their natural states but wankers with low suspension'd sporty cars throw fits constantly that their prized possessions need everything paved on the rest of our dime.



My road is a good example. It's never been paved....yet these morons buy houses on it then start petitions from the Council to jack all of our rates so they don't get their overwaxed babies all dusty.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Bricktop on December 16, 2021, 12:15:16 AM
As usual, you complain about the status quo, then offer inanity as an alternative.



Whilst your road may not be paved, it is maintained by your local council. If all roads were unsealed, the rate of accidents, vehicular damage, breakdowns and road closures would escalate to utterly incomprehensible levels.



If you're going to whinge about paying tax, offer an alternative method of funding public infrastructure and amenities.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Gaon on December 16, 2021, 12:15:40 AM
Quote from: "Shen Li" post_id=430997 time=1639627017 user_id=56
Quote from: Bricktop post_id=430991 time=1639626335 user_id=1560
I will absolutely guarantee you that those who earned a living on tips did not declare their income correctly for taxation purposes.



Anyone who claims they did so is having us on.



If you declared your full income and paid tax on it, I wonder how much you'd have in your pocket then.

Fash might have, but no other waitress has ever done that.



This is the real reason why libtards are so gung ho to raise the minimum wage even though the people their legislation is supposed to help don't want it. Wages go up, so do marginal tax rates. Governments get more $$. Servers get less.

So, that's the real reason minimum wages are going up across Canada.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Frood on December 16, 2021, 12:31:07 AM
Quote from: Bricktop post_id=431024 time=1639631716 user_id=1560
As usual, you complain about the status quo, then offer inanity as an alternative.



Whilst your road may not be paved, it is maintained by your local council. If all roads were unsealed, the rate of accidents, vehicular damage, breakdowns and road closures would escalate to utterly incomprehensible levels.



If you're going to whinge about paying tax, offer an alternative method of funding public infrastructure and amenities.


Running a grader down the road twice a year has worked for our community since the inception of our village and as you well know, you drive by conditions....not by theory/auto specs.



Taxes are theft as I mentioned earlier though that's not a whinge on my part but the worst kept open secret.



They should be resisted and reduced wherever possible.



No more than 10% on the dollar in total.



If they want to build extravagant highways, make them Toll. I'll go around them....and they can shove their nuclear powered sub purchase up their arses, too....



I suspect you probably still have that lil red midlife crises convertible parked under cover, lathered in carnuba wax, and swathed in baby blankets.... good for you.



Stay away from my community if dust and gravel roads bother you.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on December 16, 2021, 12:34:46 AM
Quote from: Bricktop post_id=431019 time=1639629941 user_id=1560
So, is there a reason that hospitality workers should not pay their fair share of tax?

It's the way it always was Bricktop..



Waitresses paid almost no tax on a very low income(their actual wage), but were on the honour system to report their tips..



Of course, very few did..



There were servers in good restaurants making as much as electricians like my husband, but paying far less tax..



There's still some tipping, but it's not like the way it was and many of the best servers have left the job since the minimum wage went up, prices went up and tipping and incomes down.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Bricktop on December 16, 2021, 01:06:52 AM
It was a tax dodge. Let's call a spade a spade.



However, in Oz, you don't pay tax if your income is less than $20K per annum. So lower income earners pay far less tax than higher earners, which is, of course, as it should be. Minimum wage is higher than the tax threshold, of course.



Living off tips is just a way of ignoring your tax obligations.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Frood on December 16, 2021, 01:08:55 AM
There is no moral obligation to be extorted financially.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Gaon on December 16, 2021, 01:44:15 AM
Quote from: Bricktop post_id=431034 time=1639634812 user_id=1560
It was a tax dodge. Let's call a spade a spade.



However, in Oz, you don't pay tax if your income is less than $20K per annum. So lower income earners pay far less tax than higher earners, which is, of course, as it should be. Minimum wage is higher than the tax threshold, of course.



Living off tips is just a way of ignoring your tax obligations.

Canada like Israel has a progressive tax system too. Tipping was a good way to have a high income and keep it all for yourself. No sharing with government.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on December 16, 2021, 11:03:36 AM
Quote from: Bricktop post_id=431034 time=1639634812 user_id=1560
It was a tax dodge. Let's call a spade a spade.



However, in Oz, you don't pay tax if your income is less than $20K per annum. So lower income earners pay far less tax than higher earners, which is, of course, as it should be. Minimum wage is higher than the tax threshold, of course.



Living off tips is just a way of ignoring your tax obligations.

Destroying tipping is just a way for profligate spending governments to gouge low income earners, low income business owners and make didning out more expensive for everybody. Why can't they just spend less.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Bricktop on December 16, 2021, 04:44:27 PM
But earlier in the thread, Fash claimed she was earning more than the business owner.



How is she and those like her "low income earners"?



And whilst spleens are vented against governments, I'm pretty certain that it was the unions that led the push for minimum wage for all, including the lowest paid.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on December 16, 2021, 07:07:43 PM
Quote from: Bricktop post_id=431071 time=1639691067 user_id=1560
But earlier in the thread, Fash claimed she was earning more than the business owner.



How is she and those like her "low income earners"?



And whilst spleens are vented against governments, I'm pretty certain that it was the unions that led the push for minimum wage for all, including the lowest paid.

I was making the equivalent of about $35-40 an hour in today's money on weekends....the owner earned less..



The hospitality industry is mostly part time and is ununionized..



It's progressive poltical parties that want higher minimum wages and ultimately lower lower take home pay for servers....it benefits them and nobody else.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Bricktop on December 16, 2021, 07:45:34 PM
I don't understand. Perhaps there is a difference of understanding.



In Australia there is a set minimum wage for all workers. Including part time employees in the hospitality sector, who also enjoy the protection of the Fair Work Commission that oversees industrial relations and disputes in Australia.



Wage disparity in various sectors occur because employees are still free to negotiate remuneration levels ABOVE the minimum wage if they choose to do so. These negotiations are in the form of a workplace contract which has the force of law.



Raising the minimum wage affects ALL workers. Of course, the government gets its greedy hands on any pay rise, but that isn't unique to any industry sector. In effect, hospitality workers get exactly the same salary as any other employee on minimum wage, which is rather generous.



"The national minimum wage is $772.60 per week, for a 38 hour week, or $20.33 per hour. The national minimum wage provides a starting point to calculate your employees' wages, however most employees are covered by an award."



//https://business.gov.au/people/employees/employees-pay-leave-and-entitlements
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Zetsu on December 16, 2021, 07:57:55 PM
Quote from: Bricktop post_id=431071 time=1639691067 user_id=1560
But earlier in the thread, Fash claimed she was earning more than the business owner.



How is she and those like her "low income earners"?



And whilst spleens are vented against governments, I'm pretty certain that it was the unions that led the push for minimum wage for all, including the lowest paid.


The problem is people that wants to raise minimum wage are the ones that never provided jobs for others with their own money.  Business is mostly overrated these days unless you have access to cheap labour.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Bricktop on December 16, 2021, 08:04:36 PM
Quote from: Zetsu post_id=431114 time=1639702675 user_id=61
The problem is people that wants to raise minimum wage are the ones that never provided jobs for others with their own money.  


This is indeed true in Australia, where trade unions wield disproportionate influence on all aspects of the economy and government.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on December 16, 2021, 08:11:15 PM
Quote from: Bricktop post_id=431111 time=1639701934 user_id=1560
I don't understand. Perhaps there is a difference of understanding.



In Australia there is a set minimum wage for all workers. Including part time employees in the hospitality sector, who also enjoy the protection of the Fair Work Commission that oversees industrial relations and disputes in Australia.



Wage disparity in various sectors occur because employees are still free to negotiate remuneration levels ABOVE the minimum wage if they choose to do so. These negotiations are in the form of a workplace contract which has the force of law.



Raising the minimum wage affects ALL workers. Of course, the government gets its greedy hands on any pay rise, but that isn't unique to any industry sector. In effect, hospitality workers get exactly the same salary as any other employee on minimum wage, which is rather generous.



"The national minimum wage is $772.60 per week, for a 38 hour week, or $20.33 per hour. The national minimum wage provides a starting point to calculate your employees' wages, however most employees are covered by an award."



//https://business.gov.au/people/employees/employees-pay-leave-and-entitlements

Provinces set minimum wage. Few adult Canadians made minimum wage, but the ones that did were quite happy keeping it low. Libtards took it upon themselves to rapidly raise minimum wages without consulting the people whom it affects.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Bricktop on December 16, 2021, 08:23:22 PM
Here, the minimum wage is set by the Federal Wage Commission. It is an independent tribunal. The government makes submissions in the same manner as employees and employers, and is bound by the Commission's ruling.



I don't understand the desire to keep the minimum wage low. How does that help anyone?
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on December 16, 2021, 08:27:11 PM
Quote from: Bricktop post_id=431129 time=1639704202 user_id=1560
Here, the minimum wage is set by the Federal Wage Commission. It is an independent tribunal. The government makes submissions in the same manner as employees and employers, and is bound by the Commission's ruling.



I don't understand the desire to keep the minimum wage low. How does that help anyone?

I think there is a federal minimum wage, but it's only applicable to federal civil service jobs..



When there's a provincial minimum wage increase it seldom ever translates into more more money on people's paycheques.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Bricktop on December 16, 2021, 09:21:15 PM
Weird.



Obviously a different system than ours.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Odinson on December 16, 2021, 10:32:00 PM
Who pays taxes from tips.



You wish to be a citizen of the year or something?
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Bricktop on December 16, 2021, 11:05:41 PM
Nobody.



It's a rort.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Frood on December 16, 2021, 11:09:05 PM
Only a rort if one views it through socialist glasses.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Bricktop on December 17, 2021, 01:40:11 AM
No, it's a rort through any viewpoint because it is clearly intended to avoid paying a fair share.



Let me know when you come up with a public funding model that doesn't require direct taxation.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Frood on December 17, 2021, 03:15:36 AM
Fair share?



 ac_toofunny
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on December 17, 2021, 05:23:01 AM
Quote from: Odinson post_id=431154 time=1639711920 user_id=136
Who pays taxes from tips.



You wish to be a citizen of the year or something?

I reported it, but most hospitality workers don't.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Bricktop on December 17, 2021, 05:05:56 PM
Then I cannot see how you can support and defend institutionalised tax evasion?



Or a minimum salary that ensures ALL workers get a living wage, particularly so at the lower end of the salary spectrum.



It should be highlighted that the more people are paid the more they spend, so ensuring a solid wage for all benefits everyone.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on December 18, 2021, 03:21:14 AM
Quote from: Bricktop post_id=431227 time=1639778756 user_id=1560
It should be highlighted that the more people are paid the more they spend, so ensuring a solid wage for all benefits everyone.

Then why do provincial governments lower wages by hiking the minimum wage and destroying the culture of tipping, Oh ya, they want to earn more money so they can spend more money.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Bricktop on December 18, 2021, 04:53:16 AM
Because as I stated earlier, gratuity based remuneration is tax avoidance.



They don't pay tax, so you subsidies them when you pay yours.



Then you tip them for bringing a plate to your table.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Frood on December 18, 2021, 07:36:59 AM
Yet tax is theft...



That sentiment more or less boils down to (in peace times).... "not fair... I'm on the hook but others may not be!"



In war time, "if we have to surrender our young for the machine, everybody must!".



And when a society or economic system is imploding, "why is that fair that my neighbours seem well fed and not suffering while my own and me can barely scrape together basic nutrition?"



The reason is socialism/communism and despite you purporting about being for fair, equitable, and liberty minded ideals, you spent your fiat currencies on shit for so long, you didn't even have the good sense to back up your lifestyle in diversified assets, monetary and physical.



Australia.... all of Australia is a shithole to your way of past thinking... and it's actually a really modern fail in the grand scheme of history.



One day, what little order we have will dissolve. It may be in your lifetime but more likely in mine.



Shit will go sideways like no other Aussie has seen before, and your sentiments now in 2021 and before, will be regaled to the dustbin of naivety..... kind of like the repurposed Eureka Stockade narrative.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on December 18, 2021, 01:10:17 PM
Quote from: Herman post_id=431249 time=1639815674 user_id=1689
Quote from: Bricktop post_id=431227 time=1639778756 user_id=1560
It should be highlighted that the more people are paid the more they spend, so ensuring a solid wage for all benefits everyone.

Then why do provincial governments lower wages by hiking the minimum wage and destroying the culture of tipping, Oh ya, they want to earn more money so they can spend more money.

lol, you turned that one on Bricktop.

 :laugh:
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on December 18, 2021, 01:12:14 PM
Quote from: Bricktop post_id=431258 time=1639821196 user_id=1560
Because as I stated earlier, gratuity based remuneration is tax avoidance.



They don't pay tax, so you subsidies them when you pay yours.



Then you tip them for bringing a plate to your table.

But, left wing provincial governments that do that aren't being honest..



They say they want to give people a raise.

 :001_rolleyes:
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Zetsu on December 18, 2021, 02:42:40 PM
Quote from: Bricktop post_id=431117 time=1639703076 user_id=1560
Quote from: Zetsu post_id=431114 time=1639702675 user_id=61
The problem is people that wants to raise minimum wage are the ones that never provided jobs for others with their own money.  


This is indeed true in Australia, where trade unions wield disproportionate influence on all aspects of the economy and government.


Since it's their idea to raise minimum wage, it would be nice if they could at least set an example for others to find out if their idea works or not.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Bricktop on December 18, 2021, 05:03:38 PM
QuoteHaving established that award wage increases are passed through to wages, the next step is to see if this leads to any reduction in hours worked or job loss; this would be the case if the DD estimates are negative for hours worked and positive for the job destruction rate. There is no evidence that award wage changes have an adverse effect on hours worked or the job destruction rate:


//https://www.rba.gov.au/publications/bulletin/2018/sep/the-effect-of-minimum-wage-increases-on-wages-hours-worked-and-job-loss.html



I doubt that any Australian worker would wish to abandon the minimum wage system in lieu of a gratuity based form of remuneration.



And I repeat...being paid a fixed wage does NOT exclude the payment of tips for good service. It is simply that they are not expected.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Frood on December 18, 2021, 08:18:17 PM
Tips aren't expected or offered here because prices are steep, wages inflated, and customer service levels negligible.



All the reasons why their US counterparts make much more money at the end of the day.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on December 18, 2021, 08:21:26 PM
Quote from: "Dinky Dazza" post_id=431290 time=1639876697 user_id=1676
Tips aren't expected or offered here because prices are steep, wages inflated, and customer service levels negligible.



All the reasons why their US counterparts make much money at the end of the day.

Australian businesses are more efficient than their North American counterparts. Automation is more widespread down under than here.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Frood on December 18, 2021, 08:25:15 PM
Quote from: seoulbro post_id=431292 time=1639876886 user_id=114
Quote from: "Dinky Dazza" post_id=431290 time=1639876697 user_id=1676
Tips aren't expected or offered here because prices are steep, wages inflated, and customer service levels negligible.



All the reasons why their US counterparts make much money at the end of the day.

Australian businesses are more efficient than their North American counterparts. Automation is more widespread down under than here.


First I've heard of it.



Besides ordering kiosks at McDonald's, we function much the same as always.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on December 18, 2021, 08:40:35 PM
Quote from: "Dinky Dazza" post_id=431295 time=1639877115 user_id=1676
Quote from: seoulbro post_id=431292 time=1639876886 user_id=114
Quote from: "Dinky Dazza" post_id=431290 time=1639876697 user_id=1676
Tips aren't expected or offered here because prices are steep, wages inflated, and customer service levels negligible.



All the reasons why their US counterparts make much money at the end of the day.

Australian businesses are more efficient than their North American counterparts. Automation is more widespread down under than here.


First I've heard of it.



Besides ordering kiosks at McDonald's, we function much the same as always.

Interesting.



There was an article in the National Post comparing small business enterprises in Canada, the US, and Australia. It claimed Austrlian businesses employed the least amount of labour, used more under eighteens to keep wages lower, more automation and customers in restaurants often pick up their own orders and bring them to their tables. Having never been to Australia, I can't confirm how common any of that is.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Frood on December 18, 2021, 08:54:38 PM
Quote from: seoulbro post_id=431296 time=1639878035 user_id=114
Quote from: "Dinky Dazza" post_id=431295 time=1639877115 user_id=1676
Quote from: seoulbro post_id=431292 time=1639876886 user_id=114
Quote from: "Dinky Dazza" post_id=431290 time=1639876697 user_id=1676
Tips aren't expected or offered here because prices are steep, wages inflated, and customer service levels negligible.



All the reasons why their US counterparts make much money at the end of the day.

Australian businesses are more efficient than their North American counterparts. Automation is more widespread down under than here.


First I've heard of it.



Besides ordering kiosks at McDonald's, we function much the same as always.

Interesting.



There was an article in the National Post comparing small business enterprises in Canada, the US, and Australia. It claimed Austrlian businesses employed the least amount of labour, used more under eighteens to keep wages lower, more automation and customers in restaurants often pick up their own orders and bring them to their tables. Having never been to Australia, I can't confirm how common any of that is.


 :laugh:



Yes, Bistros and other similar Ponderosa/Sizzler styled venues either get you to order at the counter and a waiter delivers it or you order at the counter and fetch it yourself when it's ready.



That's not automation though.... it's grifting.



Customer service is unheard of here. Australia is a cunt of an economy to function in.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on December 18, 2021, 09:32:42 PM
Left wing politicians use making the rich pay a populist slogan, but as we can see from the dishonesty of rapid minimum wage increases it's single moms and students working part time as servers who they really want to pay more.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Bricktop on December 19, 2021, 04:43:06 PM
Quote from: "Dinky Dazza" post_id=431301 time=1639878878 user_id=1676




 :laugh:



Yes, Bistros and other similar Ponderosa/Sizzler styled venues either get you to order at the counter and a waiter delivers it or you order at the counter and fetch it yourself when it's ready.



That's not automation though.... it's grifting.



Customer service is unheard of here. Australia is a cunt of an economy to function in.


You might want to consider moving to the economic paradise that is the USA, then.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on December 19, 2021, 06:12:17 PM
Quote from: Bricktop post_id=431432 time=1639950186 user_id=1560
Quote from: "Dinky Dazza" post_id=431301 time=1639878878 user_id=1676




 :laugh:



Yes, Bistros and other similar Ponderosa/Sizzler styled venues either get you to order at the counter and a waiter delivers it or you order at the counter and fetch it yourself when it's ready.



That's not automation though.... it's grifting.



Customer service is unheard of here. Australia is a cunt of an economy to function in.


You might want to consider moving to the economic paradise that is the USA, then.

It wasn't paradise, but it was as good as any place in thr world when Trump was in office.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on December 19, 2021, 08:12:05 PM
All my life I have been in favour of higher minimum wages. But, as they have rose in just about every province, overall industrial wages have flatlined or even been clawed back.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Frood on December 19, 2021, 08:15:22 PM
Quote from: Bricktop post_id=431432 time=1639950186 user_id=1560
Quote from: "Dinky Dazza" post_id=431301 time=1639878878 user_id=1676




 :laugh:



Yes, Bistros and other similar Ponderosa/Sizzler styled venues either get you to order at the counter and a waiter delivers it or you order at the counter and fetch it yourself when it's ready.



That's not automation though.... it's grifting.



Customer service is unheard of here. Australia is a cunt of an economy to function in.


You might want to consider moving to the economic paradise that is the USA, then.




I want nothing to do with the US, as it stands now.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on December 19, 2021, 08:23:37 PM
Quote from: "Dinky Dazza" post_id=431449 time=1639962922 user_id=1676
Quote from: Bricktop post_id=431432 time=1639950186 user_id=1560
Quote from: "Dinky Dazza" post_id=431301 time=1639878878 user_id=1676




 :laugh:



Yes, Bistros and other similar Ponderosa/Sizzler styled venues either get you to order at the counter and a waiter delivers it or you order at the counter and fetch it yourself when it's ready.



That's not automation though.... it's grifting.



Customer service is unheard of here. Australia is a cunt of an economy to function in.


You might want to consider moving to the economic paradise that is the USA, then.




I want nothing to do with the US, as it stands now.

The US is still salvageable. If it continued as is for another decade it wouldn't be.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on December 19, 2021, 08:25:35 PM
Quote from: "iron horse jockey" post_id=431447 time=1639962725 user_id=2015
All my life I have been in favour of higher minimum wages. But, as they have rose in just about every province, overall industrial wages have flatlined or even been clawed back.

The success of industrial policy lays in the economic well being of the vast middle, not those on the fringes.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Frood on December 19, 2021, 08:27:43 PM
Quote from: seoulbro post_id=431456 time=1639963417 user_id=114
Quote from: "Dinky Dazza" post_id=431449 time=1639962922 user_id=1676
Quote from: Bricktop post_id=431432 time=1639950186 user_id=1560
Quote from: "Dinky Dazza" post_id=431301 time=1639878878 user_id=1676




 :laugh:



Yes, Bistros and other similar Ponderosa/Sizzler styled venues either get you to order at the counter and a waiter delivers it or you order at the counter and fetch it yourself when it's ready.



That's not automation though.... it's grifting.



Customer service is unheard of here. Australia is a cunt of an economy to function in.


You might want to consider moving to the economic paradise that is the USA, then.




I want nothing to do with the US, as it stands now.

The US is still salvageable. If it continued as is for another decade it wouldn't be.


Too much is being spent now. The dollar is rapidly devaluating before people's eyes.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on December 19, 2021, 08:31:27 PM
Quote from: "Dinky Dazza" post_id=431458 time=1639963663 user_id=1676
Quote from: seoulbro post_id=431456 time=1639963417 user_id=114
Quote from: "Dinky Dazza" post_id=431449 time=1639962922 user_id=1676
Quote from: Bricktop post_id=431432 time=1639950186 user_id=1560
Quote from: "Dinky Dazza" post_id=431301 time=1639878878 user_id=1676




 :laugh:



Yes, Bistros and other similar Ponderosa/Sizzler styled venues either get you to order at the counter and a waiter delivers it or you order at the counter and fetch it yourself when it's ready.



That's not automation though.... it's grifting.



Customer service is unheard of here. Australia is a cunt of an economy to function in.


You might want to consider moving to the economic paradise that is the USA, then.




I want nothing to do with the US, as it stands now.

The US is still salvageable. If it continued as is for another decade it wouldn't be.


Too much is being spent now. The dollar is rapidly devaluating before people's eyes.

Absolutely. But, there's still a window to redeem itself. If they win the house next year and the presidency in 24, they will have to act fast. The problem is that Trump Republicans do not believe debt is one of the biggest problems facing the US.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Frood on December 19, 2021, 08:34:29 PM
Quote from: seoulbro post_id=431459 time=1639963887 user_id=114
Quote from: "Dinky Dazza" post_id=431458 time=1639963663 user_id=1676
Quote from: seoulbro post_id=431456 time=1639963417 user_id=114
Quote from: "Dinky Dazza" post_id=431449 time=1639962922 user_id=1676
Quote from: Bricktop post_id=431432 time=1639950186 user_id=1560




You might want to consider moving to the economic paradise that is the USA, then.




I want nothing to do with the US, as it stands now.

The US is still salvageable. If it continued as is for another decade it wouldn't be.


Too much is being spent now. The dollar is rapidly devaluating before people's eyes.

Absolutely. But, there's still a window to redeem itself. If they win the house next year and the presidency in 24, they will have to act fast. The problem is that Trump Republicans do not believe debt is one of the biggest problems facing the US.


Traditionally, wars happen around periods of American fiscal recklessness.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on December 19, 2021, 09:34:16 PM
Quote from: seoulbro post_id=431459 time=1639963887 user_id=114
 The problem is that Trump Republicans do not believe debt is one of the biggest problems facing the US.

Because it's not.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Bricktop on December 19, 2021, 11:38:10 PM
Quote from: "iron horse jockey" post_id=431447 time=1639962725 user_id=2015
All my life I have been in favour of higher minimum wages. But, as they have rose in just about every province, overall industrial wages have flatlined or even been clawed back.


Whilst generally agreeing with minimum wage awards, they do have a significant drawback.



In Australia, the increments by which it is increased are small. Maybe 2 to 3% tops.



This is because the Wages Tribunal is fully aware that opening the tap too much will create significant unemployment as employers shed staff to reduce the wages bill.



Some years ago, the minimum wage was increased by substantial amounts and employers screamed as their feet were held to the fire by unions.



Then they started laying off staff, or reducing their hiring rate and the unions got a taste of their own medicine.



Thus, managing a minimum wage is a delicate balancing act that is incredibly complex in the modern world.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on December 20, 2021, 12:19:33 AM
Quote from: Bricktop post_id=431499 time=1639975090 user_id=1560
Quote from: "iron horse jockey" post_id=431447 time=1639962725 user_id=2015
All my life I have been in favour of higher minimum wages. But, as they have rose in just about every province, overall industrial wages have flatlined or even been clawed back.


Whilst generally agreeing with minimum wage awards, they do have a significant drawback.



In Australia, the increments by which it is increased are small. Maybe 2 to 3% tops.



This is because the Wages Tribunal is fully aware that opening the tap too much will create significant unemployment as employers shed staff to reduce the wages bill.



Some years ago, the minimum wage was increased by substantial amounts and employers screamed as their feet were held to the fire by unions.



Then they started laying off staff, or reducing their hiring rate and the unions got a taste of their own medicine.



Thus, managing a minimum wage is a delicate balancing act that is incredibly complex in the modern world.

If minimum wage had been raised at reasonable yearly rates in Canadian provinces, current rates would not be a burden on small business owners. But, the left pushed for overnight thirty plus per cent increases which forced employers to reduce staff or go out of business.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Bricktop on December 20, 2021, 12:27:55 AM
Exactly. That was the situation here in the 80's when unions were at their strongest.



When unemployment went up, the penny dropped. One man's raise is another man's termination.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Frood on December 20, 2021, 12:36:52 AM
One union man's unrewarded work performance is another union man's easy street...
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on December 20, 2021, 12:49:36 AM
Quote from: Bricktop post_id=431510 time=1639978075 user_id=1560
Exactly. That was the situation here in the 80's when unions were at their strongest.



When unemployment went up, the penny dropped. One man's raise is another man's termination.

Who gets an overnight thirty to forty percent raise. That is what Canadian provinces did to small business owners. In provinces like Ontario, thousands shut down for good or quickly sacked staff.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Bricktop on December 20, 2021, 01:21:40 AM
That was a stupid move.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on December 20, 2021, 01:26:24 AM
Quote from: Bricktop post_id=431530 time=1639981300 user_id=1560
That was a stupid move.

Nobody has accused Canada of being a smart country for a hell of a long time.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Bricktop on December 20, 2021, 05:25:46 PM
I would have been surprised by that comment until you voted Trudeau in 3 times.



Now, I'm not so sure...
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on December 20, 2021, 05:47:35 PM
Quote from: Bricktop post_id=431570 time=1640039146 user_id=1560
I would have been surprised by that comment until you voted Trudeau in 3 times.



Now, I'm not so sure...

His party didn't win the popular vote in the last two elections....the Conservatives did.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Bricktop on December 20, 2021, 09:49:46 PM
Further evidence, not that any is required, that democracy in its current guise is failing and does not work as it should.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on December 20, 2021, 10:14:33 PM
Quote from: Bricktop post_id=431604 time=1640054986 user_id=1560
Further evidence, not that any is required, that democracy in its current guise is failing and does not work as it should.

We know.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on December 21, 2021, 07:47:41 PM
A small business owner responds. It's from the US, but it's applicable to Canada,

(//%3C/s%3E%3CURL%20url=%22https://assets.rebelmouse.io/eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiIsInR5cCI6IkpXVCJ9.eyJpbWFnZSI6Imh0dHBzOi8vYXNzZXRzLnJibC5tcy8yODI3MTU1My9vcmlnaW4ucG5nIiwiZXhwaXJlc19hdCI6MTY2MDIwMjUwMn0.dZjRPTNGXpEZqkv3TCnEXOVjCH4vCWkD3h4y3kgNGNo/img.png?width=980%22%3E%3CLINK_TEXT%20text=%22https://assets.rebelmouse.io/eyJhbGciOi%20...%20?width=980%22%3Ehttps://assets.rebelmouse.io/eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiIsInR5cCI6IkpXVCJ9.eyJpbWFnZSI6Imh0dHBzOi8vYXNzZXRzLnJibC5tcy8yODI3MTU1My9vcmlnaW4ucG5nIiwiZXhwaXJlc19hdCI6MTY2MDIwMjUwMn0.dZjRPTNGXpEZqkv3TCnEXOVjCH4vCWkD3h4y3kgNGNo/img.png?width=980%3C/LINK_TEXT%3E%3C/URL%3E%3Ce%3E)
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Odinson on December 21, 2021, 10:54:00 PM
The problem in Finland that you aint getting enough hours.



Any pay is bad when you dont have enough hours.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on December 21, 2021, 11:17:54 PM
Quote from: Odinson post_id=431713 time=1640145240 user_id=136
The problem in Finland that you aint getting enough hours.



Any pay is bad when you dont have enough hours.

European wages tend to be low period. Take France for example. How the fuck do people live there. Minimu wage here is a good wage in that caliphate.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Odinson on December 21, 2021, 11:27:06 PM
Quote from: "Shen Li" post_id=431716 time=1640146674 user_id=56
Quote from: Odinson post_id=431713 time=1640145240 user_id=136
The problem in Finland that you aint getting enough hours.



Any pay is bad when you dont have enough hours.

European wages tend to be low period. Take France for example. How the fuck do people live there. Minimu wage here is a good wage in that caliphate.


It seems to be around 10 euros.



With 160 hours per month, its enough to live around here.

Pay rent, bills, buy food etc.



If you want to live more luxuriously, you need to get a better education and better paying job.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on December 23, 2021, 08:47:02 PM
Quote from: Odinson post_id=431718 time=1640147226 user_id=136
Quote from: "Shen Li" post_id=431716 time=1640146674 user_id=56
Quote from: Odinson post_id=431713 time=1640145240 user_id=136
The problem in Finland that you aint getting enough hours.



Any pay is bad when you dont have enough hours.

European wages tend to be low period. Take France for example. How the fuck do people live there. Minimu wage here is a good wage in that caliphate.


It seems to be around 10 euros.



With 160 hours per month, its enough to live around here.

Pay rent, bills, buy food etc.



If you want to live more luxuriously, you need to get a better education and better paying job.

You mean survive, not live.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on December 23, 2021, 08:48:54 PM
Quote from: "Shen Li" post_id=431716 time=1640146674 user_id=56
Quote from: Odinson post_id=431713 time=1640145240 user_id=136
The problem in Finland that you aint getting enough hours.



Any pay is bad when you dont have enough hours.

European wages tend to be low period. Take France for example. How the fuck do people live there. Minimu wage here is a good wage in that caliphate.

Wages in Europe are lower than Canada and the US. But, give us a decade more of Justine's bullshit policies. It doesn't matter, if he's gone, his poverty policies are here to stay. We will have wages lower than Zimbabwe.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Thiel on December 23, 2021, 11:04:18 PM
As an employer, the wages I pay my are based on current market rates. I do not pay them all the same. As Seoulbro alluded to the wages I pay are also tied to their individual productivity. If my employees want higher pay, they will have to produce more.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Odinson on December 23, 2021, 11:42:40 PM
Quote from: Herman post_id=431856 time=1640310422 user_id=1689
Quote from: Odinson post_id=431718 time=1640147226 user_id=136
Quote from: "Shen Li" post_id=431716 time=1640146674 user_id=56
Quote from: Odinson post_id=431713 time=1640145240 user_id=136
The problem in Finland that you aint getting enough hours.



Any pay is bad when you dont have enough hours.

European wages tend to be low period. Take France for example. How the fuck do people live there. Minimu wage here is a good wage in that caliphate.


It seems to be around 10 euros.



With 160 hours per month, its enough to live around here.

Pay rent, bills, buy food etc.



If you want to live more luxuriously, you need to get a better education and better paying job.

You mean survive, not live.


Its enough for an inexperienced, unskilled laborer.



It goes up as you acquire more experience.





Pays rent and puts food on the table.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on December 23, 2021, 11:47:35 PM
Quote from: Odinson post_id=431890 time=1640320960 user_id=136
Quote from: Herman post_id=431856 time=1640310422 user_id=1689
Quote from: Odinson post_id=431718 time=1640147226 user_id=136
Quote from: "Shen Li" post_id=431716 time=1640146674 user_id=56
Quote from: Odinson post_id=431713 time=1640145240 user_id=136
The problem in Finland that you aint getting enough hours.



Any pay is bad when you dont have enough hours.

European wages tend to be low period. Take France for example. How the fuck do people live there. Minimu wage here is a good wage in that caliphate.


It seems to be around 10 euros.



With 160 hours per month, its enough to live around here.

Pay rent, bills, buy food etc.



If you want to live more luxuriously, you need to get a better education and better paying job.

You mean survive, not live.


Its enough for an inexperienced, unskilled laborer.



It goes up as you acquire more experience.





Pays rent and puts food on the table.

It's the same in Canada, unskilled labourers can only afford the necessities of life.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on December 23, 2021, 11:48:07 PM
What are your Christmas plans Odi?



Were not that far from each other.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Odinson on December 23, 2021, 11:59:15 PM
Quote from: Fashionista post_id=431892 time=1640321287 user_id=3254
What are your Christmas plans Odi?



Were not that far from each other.


Christmas dinner with family... The usual.

My sisters family is gonna be at the other place this year because they were here the last time.





2500 kilometer drive.



Surprisingly straight road through Sweden and Denmark.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on December 24, 2021, 12:13:43 AM
Quote from: Odinson post_id=431893 time=1640321955 user_id=136
Quote from: Fashionista post_id=431892 time=1640321287 user_id=3254
What are your Christmas plans Odi?



Were not that far from each other.


Christmas dinner with family... The usual.

My sisters family is gonna be at the other place this year because they were here the last time.





2500 kilometer drive.



Surprisingly straight road through Sweden and Denmark.

Maybe we'll rent a car and join you for supper..

 :laugh:

I hope you enjoy your family celebration.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Bricktop on December 24, 2021, 12:17:06 AM
Take pictures!!!
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on December 24, 2021, 12:18:45 AM
Quote from: Bricktop post_id=431895 time=1640323026 user_id=1560
Take pictures!!!

I'll take one of Odi carving the turkey.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Bricktop on December 24, 2021, 12:22:46 AM
:thumbup:
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Odinson on December 24, 2021, 12:28:10 AM
Quote from: Fashionista post_id=431897 time=1640323125 user_id=3254
Quote from: Bricktop post_id=431895 time=1640323026 user_id=1560
Take pictures!!!

I'll take one of Odi carving the turkey.


Our Christmas turkey is a Christmas ham.



 ac_biggrin
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Odinson on December 24, 2021, 12:31:13 AM
Quote from: Fashionista post_id=431894 time=1640322823 user_id=3254
Quote from: Odinson post_id=431893 time=1640321955 user_id=136
Quote from: Fashionista post_id=431892 time=1640321287 user_id=3254
What are your Christmas plans Odi?



Were not that far from each other.


Christmas dinner with family... The usual.

My sisters family is gonna be at the other place this year because they were here the last time.





2500 kilometer drive.



Surprisingly straight road through Sweden and Denmark.

Maybe we'll rent a car and join you for supper..

 :laugh:

I hope you enjoy your family celebration.


Use Europcar.



I used to work for them for 10 bucks per hour.



I have an empty room. ac_biggrin
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on December 24, 2021, 01:43:15 AM
Didn't one of those North European countries block non-essential travel because of the COVID surge in Europe? I thought it was Denmark.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on December 24, 2021, 09:51:57 PM
Quote from: "Shen Li" post_id=431904 time=1640328195 user_id=56
Didn't one of those North European countries block non-essential travel because of the COVID surge in Europe? I thought it was Denmark.

That would violate the Schengen Agreement.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Bricktop on December 25, 2021, 05:27:54 PM
We thought we had an inalienable right to travel between individual States of Australia, as enshrined in our Constitution.



But the State Premiers banned it anyway.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on December 25, 2021, 06:22:43 PM
Quote from: Herman post_id=431932 time=1640400717 user_id=1689
Quote from: "Shen Li" post_id=431904 time=1640328195 user_id=56
Didn't one of those North European countries block non-essential travel because of the COVID surge in Europe? I thought it was Denmark.

That would violate the Schengen Agreement.

Poland and Hungary block migrants from outside the EU in violation of it's rules on a regular basis.
Title: Re: The 15/hr bullshit
Post by: Anonymous on December 25, 2021, 09:24:30 PM
Quote from: seoulbro post_id=431958 time=1640474563 user_id=114
Quote from: Herman post_id=431932 time=1640400717 user_id=1689
Quote from: "Shen Li" post_id=431904 time=1640328195 user_id=56
Didn't one of those North European countries block non-essential travel because of the COVID surge in Europe? I thought it was Denmark.

That would violate the Schengen Agreement.

Poland and Hungary block migrants from outside the EU in violation of it's rules on a regular basis.

I love the Poles and Hungarians. They put their own people ahead of globalist money and power.
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