Title: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on October 22, 2019, 04:02:27 PM
Post by: Anonymous on October 22, 2019, 04:02:27 PM
The Alberta separatist group that gained more than 100,000 Facebook followers overnight after the Liberals won a minority government is taking steps to become a provincial and federal party.
Wexit, a term that combines Western Canada and exit, was trending on Twitter Monday night and the group now has just over 150,000 followers on Facebook.
"It was huge, it was absolutely huge," said Wexit Alberta and Wexit Canada Founder Peter Downing.
Downing created Wexit Alberta in June and Wexit Canada about a month ago. He now wants to turn the groups into provincial and federal parties.
"We have to do this," Downing said. "Right now there's no hope, there's no future ... no reason why we have to have Justin Trudeau governing us."
Unfairness'
Political Scientist Lori Williamson says separating from the rest of Canada would not fix Alberta's economy.
"The concerns that Albertans have will not be solved by separation. We're not going to get our oil to markets any better if we're not part of Canada."
However, Williamson understands why Albertans are frustrated by how Ottawa treats their province.
"There's an unfairness in terms of Alberta's recognition for its contribution to the Canadian economy," Williamson said. "Alberta has the sense, rightly, that it's giving more than it's getting in return—both in terms economic balance, but also in terms of appreciation."
I knew Trudeau's reelection would divide this country. And it is my province that voted for the fraud.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on October 22, 2019, 04:11:41 PM
Post by: Anonymous on October 22, 2019, 04:11:41 PM
By Lorne Gunter of Sun News Media
A Liberal minority is bad news for the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion
I said before the election that a Liberal minority propped up by the NDP or Greens would be the worst of all possible outcomes for Alberta and I am prepared to stick with that.
But it is probably also the worst of all possible results for the country as a whole.
What this looks like more than anything, is provincial politics in Ontario for the decade before Conservative Doug Ford was elected premier.
The Ontario Liberals were not popular. Voters said they disliked their taxes, their "green" energy schemes, their huge deficits, their electricity rates.
But Ontario voters are also very cautious. They don't like change. And so they voted Liberal again and again despite the party's scandals and smugness (sound familiar?) because they were frightened into believing the Tories under a succession of weak leaders would be worse.
Not keen on Trudeau
It seems as though the same pattern has emerged on the federal level in Ontario. Voters are not real keen on Trudeau and his government, but they permitted the Liberal campaign to scare them about a weak Conservative Leader in Andrew Sheer and remain, largely, in the Liberal camp.
And now we're all going to pay for it.
A Liberal majority might – might – have built the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion, even if they stopped there. (In the last Parliament they passed a law – Bill C-69 – that made new pipelines all but impossible.)
But now that Justin Trudeau and his party will need the support of Jagmeet Singh and his party to stay in power, there is a good chance the Liberals will refuse to move forward even with Trans Mountain (TMX).
Singh hasn't made cancelling Trans Mountain an ironclad condition for his support. Two weeks ago he laid out six prerequisites for getting behind the Liberals. Trans Mountain was not one of them.
But I'm not holding my breath. Right after the French-language leaders' debate, Singh said, "I've been really clear on this. I am very much opposed to this (TMX) project ... I'll continue to work against that, for sure."
Singh probably refused to say unequivocally that he would demand an end to TMX because he was hoping to win one seat for his party in Edmonton. And now that that concern is out of the way, there is probably no way TMX won't come up in his negotiations with Trudeau.
Besides, the Liberals themselves are not enthusiastic about TMX, either.
Never have been. Trudeau will be quite happy to let Singh twist his rubber arm.
I have maintained all along that the Libs bought TMX only so they could control whether it got built. If it helped their re-election, they'd build it. If it hurt their chances, they'd kill it. Their calculus was purely political.
Why would that change now? If the Libs need to axe TMX to retain power, they'll do it. In a heartbeat.
And all of that is bad for Alberta, for sure. But it is bad for the rest of the country, too. Even before this election, the federal Liberals and Alberta NDP scared away at least $100 billion in investment in oil and gas.
That money doesn't get replaced with investment in "green" energy or in barista supplies. When it's lost to the national economy, it's lost.
Of course that hits Alberta the hardest: jobs that are lost, houses that are foreclosed, vehicles that aren't sold, restaurants that close. But it also means companies in the rest of the country that provide trucks and crew buses suffer, as do companies that manufacture pipe and electrical controls and valves and planes and on and on and on. Workers feel it too with fewer high-paying energy jobs Canada-wide.
Blame a dismal campaign by Scheer, a clever Liberal campaign and the timidity of GTA voters for the results.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on October 22, 2019, 04:23:33 PM
Post by: Anonymous on October 22, 2019, 04:23:33 PM
Mount Royal University professor David Taras said the two "explosive issues" are likely to be "major items on the table" come Tuesday.
"If the Liberals are dependent on New Democrat votes and on Green votes and on Bloc votes, then I think they would have to be much more aggressive in terms of climate change and the carbon tax," he said.
Despite some predictions of a Liberal majority government, the party was not on track to capture enough seats to form a majority Monday evening.
On the issue of pipelines, Taras doesn't see the contentious Trans Mountain expansion coming to a vote in Parliament, regardless of what takes place after the election.
"I think the Liberals aren't going to go there," he said. "It's like nuclear war. You know, who wants to press the button? And they know if they press the button, it could be disastrous for the country ... It would mean backtracking. It would mean publicly embracing the New Democrats, which I'm not sure they want to do. I'm not sure what stops the pipeline at this point, without a major national unity crisis."
But some in the energy sector will be watching the federal developments very carefully.
Gary Mar, president and CEO of the Petroleum Services Association of Canada, said the election outcome could "determine what the future prosperity of the nation looks like."
Mar noted
"If you have a Liberal minority government that has support of the NDP or an NDP-Green coalition, those pipelines may come to an end," he said. "And that would be a tragically bad outcome. Not just for Alberta but for all Canadians."
Others are less worried about any potential Alberta implications of a minority government.
"If there were to be a third-party motion, a private member's bill, saying let's not build the Trans Mountain pipeline, then the power of the Conservatives and the Liberals together will almost certainly be a majority to prevent that from happening," said Mayor Naheed Nenshi.
Martha Hall Findlay, president and CEO of the Canada West Foundation, said "there's no question there are a lot of people who are worried."
However, she said regardless of who controls Parliament, there are "underlying problems" that must be addressed.
"There's a message to whoever forms government: we need to address the underlying lack of understanding in the country of what the oil and gas industry's all about, how important it is economically, the incredible innovations that are taking place to address climate change," she said. "And that conversation is simply not being held."
Political observers will also be watching how both provincial and federal Conservatives address "regional angst" in Alberta following Monday's vote.
"As a political scientist, I'm looking to the Conservatives at the provincial and federal level to see what their response is," said University of Alberta political scientist Jared Wesley.
"It's almost like a 'Nixon goes to China' thing, where the only people that can stand up for Canada and stop this alienation from becoming a broader separatist movement are people who champion Conservative values that those same people possess."
Hall Findlay described Alberta and Saskatchewan as "once again the flyover provinces" during the election campaign.
"Not having anybody pay any attention to what's really going on here is insulting and frustrating for everybody here, regardless of how you vote," she said.
"The Conservative vote in Alberta and Saskatchewan is taken for granted, so why bother showing up, why engage in those discussions? The non-conservative votes are deemed to be irrelevant ... so the non-conservative votes, the fact that they're deemed to be irrelevant, is also insulting and frustrating. And so once again we're going to wake up, an election will have happened, and there will be a continued sense of frustration, regardless of how one voted."
But both Hall Findlay and Wesley cautioned against a move to greater regional fractures.
"I think Conservatives in
Western Canada should look at lessons like Brexit very carefully before they decide to go down a constitutional amendment road, because Quebec's already signalling that if Alberta holds a constitutional amendment on equalization, they've got one, too," said Wesley.
"That's the challenge with national unity, is that now more than ever, I'd argue, the partisan fault lines are falling along regional fault lines ... People are comparing this Parliament to 1972, but I look at it more like 1993. We may not have a majority government in the form of the Liberals ... but it's the regional fracture of the party system that ultimately led to the '95 referendum in Quebec and a decade or so of real, serious debate over national unity."
According to a recent Thinkhq public opinion survey, 71 per cent of respondents said federal policies over the past several years have hurt the quality of life of Albertans. However, if a provincial referendum on separation were held tomorrow, 59 per cent would vote for Alberta to remain in Canada.
"Despite recent rumblings in Alberta about separation and talk of a growing separatist movement, it's clear from these results that Albertans are far more 'frustrated federalists' than they are separatists; six-in-10 would never want to exchange their Canadian passport for an Alberta one," said Thinkhq president Marc Henry.
Wesley said he'll be watching for the "posturing" around who should form government, in the days and weeks to come.
"It's going to be an ugly battle, as we saw back in 2008, for the hearts and minds of Canadians as to who has the legitimacy to govern," he said.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on October 22, 2019, 04:28:41 PM
Post by: Anonymous on October 22, 2019, 04:28:41 PM
Eveybody at his shop is crestfallen..
Even where I work there is a sense of despair..
Canada elected a government at war with this province.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: cc on October 22, 2019, 04:32:43 PM
Post by: cc on October 22, 2019, 04:32:43 PM
Canada elected a government at war with this province.Quote
Not an exaggeration
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on October 22, 2019, 04:45:01 PM
Post by: Anonymous on October 22, 2019, 04:45:01 PM
The premier of Alberta is a staunch federalist, but he will be forced to listen to growing support for a new arrangement with Canada. The situation is the same for Saskatchewan premier Scott Moe. But, opening up constitutional talks is a risky business that did not go well for Trudeau's father or for Brian Mulroney. Trudeau let the genie out of the bottle.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on October 22, 2019, 06:51:08 PM
Post by: Anonymous on October 22, 2019, 06:51:08 PM
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on October 22, 2019, 07:58:53 PM
Post by: Anonymous on October 22, 2019, 07:58:53 PM
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Berry Sweet on October 22, 2019, 09:24:53 PM
Post by: Berry Sweet on October 22, 2019, 09:24:53 PM
Canada elected a government at war with this province.Quote
Not an exaggeration
Yep. Alberta is fucked. And BC is slowly going down the tubes.
Canada is not united, it's being divided. As long as they keep over populating in the east, there is no point in voting in the west.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Berry Sweet on October 22, 2019, 09:27:06 PM
Post by: Berry Sweet on October 22, 2019, 09:27:06 PM
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on October 22, 2019, 09:46:34 PM
Post by: Anonymous on October 22, 2019, 09:46:34 PM
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: @realAzhyaAryola on October 22, 2019, 11:22:51 PM
Post by: @realAzhyaAryola on October 22, 2019, 11:22:51 PM
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: @realAzhyaAryola on October 22, 2019, 11:24:10 PM
Post by: @realAzhyaAryola on October 22, 2019, 11:24:10 PM
Say what you want about Stephen Harper, but during his ten years in office there wss national unity.Quote from: "Velvet"
I agree with these wise words.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on October 23, 2019, 10:45:24 AM
Post by: Anonymous on October 23, 2019, 10:45:24 AM
Say what you want about Stephen Harper, but during his ten years in office there wss national unity.Quote from: "Velvet"
I agree with these wise words.
Stephen Harper is MENSA. True Dope is not even a man.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on October 23, 2019, 06:43:03 PM
Post by: Anonymous on October 23, 2019, 06:43:03 PM
CALGARY — There's been a surge of support for an Alberta separatist group since the Liberals secured a minority government Monday night, and while political scientists say a split from Canada may not be a real possibility, the anger underlying the movement is serious.
"The idea of Canada has died in the hearts of many, many western Canadians," said "Wexit" Alberta founder Peter Downing, a former soldier and RCMP officer.
The Liberals managed to hang onto seats in Atlantic Canada, Quebec, Ontario and British Columbia, but Alberta and Saskatchewan ended up Conservative blue except for one NDP riding in Edmonton.
The Votewexit Facebook page with its motto, "The West Wants Out" went from 2,000 or so members on Monday to nearly 160,000 and counting by Tuesday afternoon. Downing said his group received more than $20,000 in donations and membership fees overnight.
A separate online petition calling for a western alliance and for Alberta to separate was backed by more than 40,000 people.
Downing got the idea for "Wexit" — an apparent play on Brexit in the United Kingdom — late last year when he heard United Conservative Leader Jason Kenney warn of rising separatist sentiment if the Liberal government didn't back off from policies he said were hostile to the energy sector. Those include the overhaul of environmental reviews and an oil tanker ban off B.C.'S north coast.
"Justin Trudeau is obviously the fuel for it, but Jason Kenney was the spark," said Downing.
He said his group is pushing for Kenney, who describes himself as a staunch federalist, to call a referendum on whether Alberta should separate. If successful, that would result in the province replacing the RCMP with its own police force and having control over immigration, taxation, firearms and pensions, Downing said.
The idea is getting interest from people in Saskatchewan, Manitoba and parts of British Columbia, too, he added.
In the meantime, Downing wants to get "Wexit" representatives elected to Parliament.
"We're going to push into Canada and cause havoc and chaos until the grounds are right and the conditions are set to have that referendum on separation and become an independent nation."
David Taras, a political scientist at Calgary's Mount Royal University, said he doubts people in Alberta would back separation if they understood the practicalities. Would they need a visa to take a ski trip or wine tour in B.C., for instance?
"The vast majority of Albertans
love being in Canada and have a deep emotional attachment to Canada, so I don't think that will be severed easily," he said.
"But the anger and frustration is real."
Taras said he'll be curious whether Kenney chooses an "endless war" with Trudeau over energy policy, or decides on a more conciliatory tack.
Ted Morton, a former Alberta Progressive Conservative cabinet minister, said the angst may not lead to separation, but it could propel Kenney's efforts to exert pressure on Ottawa.
The premier has already said Alberta will hold a referendum on equalization — a federal program meant to even out fiscal disparities between "have" and "have not" provinces — along with municipal elections next October if there's no substantive progress on building a market-opening pipeline.
Morton, now an executive fellow at the University of Calgary's School of Public Policy, has said he's heard calls to do it sooner.
He suggested increasing "Wexit" talk is a barometer of the anger and fear western Canadians feel. People in the energy sector are losing their jobs and, in many cases, that leads to domestic strife and addiction, he said.
"Pipelines aren't just an infrastructure and finance issue in Alberta and Saskatchewan," Morton said. "They're a people issue."
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on October 23, 2019, 06:48:50 PM
Post by: Anonymous on October 23, 2019, 06:48:50 PM
Regina — Saskatchewan Premier Scott Moe says the federal election results confirm there's a fire of frustration burning in Western canada and it's time for a "new deal" with Ottawa.
Moe is renewing his calls for Prime Minister Justin Trudeau to cancel the federal carbon tax, to rework the equalization formula and to get oil pipelines built to open up international markets. The Liberals secured a minority mandate in Monday's vote, but did not retain a single seat in Saskatchewan or Alberta.
Moe likens his plan to a fire extinguisher and says it's up to Trudeau to douse western Canadian frustration. The premier, who says he's a frustrated federalist, also rejects criticism that his own tone is stoking division.
"the path our federal government has been on the last four years has divided our nation," Moe said in a statement tuesday. "Last night's election results showed the sense of frustration and alienation in saskatchewan is now greater than it has been at any point in my lifetime."
The conservatives won all 14 seats in Saskatchewan.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on October 23, 2019, 07:01:22 PM
Post by: Anonymous on October 23, 2019, 07:01:22 PM
You might excuse Albertans for waking up Tuesday morning with heavy heads and hearts.
Rest assured there had been no celebrating here in Wild Rose Country the night before.
Sadly, we were wrapping our heads around a federal election result that inflicted an ugly, mind-bending hangover.
The minority victory by the Trudeau Liberals was pretty much the worst result this province could have imagined.
Yes, four more years of the leader who has divided this country like no-one before him.
To make matters worst, the Liberals' likely bedfellows in Parliament — the Greens, BQ and the New Democrats — all have downright unfriendly policies to the energy industry and Alberta.
Not to mention regular taxpayers, but we digress.
So what next?
No doubt we are feeling unloved. And unheard.
A Facebook group called Vote Wexit.com had drawn about 145,000 members in the hours after the vote, with western separatism rallies planned in Alberta's major cities.
Yet it seems far too early to begin to stir the fires of separatism.
This is Canada, after all. And we remain a proud province in this great nation of ours.
But the sheer level of anger and frustration from Alberta must be understood by people in other regions.
Starting in Ottawa. On Parliament Hill, in particular.
Alberta is feeling marginalized — its issues on the fringes of a federal system that seems built to spend our resource money, but does almost nothing to help the very industry that provides it.
It is an industry needing help.
That was hammered home by Tuesday's layoff of dozens of employees at Husky Energy in Calgary and Lloydminster.
Sadly, those layoff announcements are not new.
They have come with increasing regularity in a sector losing hope.
We need a mechanism to get Alberta's resources to the worldwide market. That has to be a priority for the incumbent prime minister.
So congratulations, Mr. Trudeau, on winning the most seats in the 2019 federal election.
Good luck in governing as a minority. Just this time round please try to act in Alberta's best interests, too, for the good of all of Canada
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on October 23, 2019, 08:03:23 PM
Post by: Anonymous on October 23, 2019, 08:03:23 PM
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on October 23, 2019, 11:35:41 PM
Post by: Anonymous on October 23, 2019, 11:35:41 PM
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Thiel on October 24, 2019, 11:29:16 PM
Post by: Thiel on October 24, 2019, 11:29:16 PM
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on October 25, 2019, 12:58:55 AM
Post by: Anonymous on October 25, 2019, 12:58:55 AM
Alberta and Saskatchewan cannot separate without Manitoba. You would need Hudson Bay to get your oil and LNG to international markets. Unfortunately, #Wexit has a small following here.Quote from: "Thiel"
I don't think full independence is what we want, but we can't rule it out either. Like Scott Moe said, a new deal with Ottawa.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: sasquatch on October 25, 2019, 03:26:04 PM
Post by: sasquatch on October 25, 2019, 03:26:04 PM
Alberta and Saskatchewan cannot separate without Manitoba. You would need Hudson Bay to get your oil and LNG to international markets. Unfortunately, #Wexit has a small following here.Quote from: "Thiel"
I don't think full independence is what we want, but we can't rule it out either. Like Scott Moe said, a new deal with Ottawa.
That's the point. We don't want to separate from eastern Canada, but at the same time, we NEED to do it otherwise we're fucked! What Scott ans jason are doing is they are trying the "fair deal" line until things calm the fuck down, but i don't think wexit is going away and may happen if the east keep thumbing at us in an arrogant way. We're not ontario who gets mad for a few days and then pulls their pants around their ankles and begs the government to fuck them with new taxes.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on October 25, 2019, 03:28:52 PM
Post by: Anonymous on October 25, 2019, 03:28:52 PM
Alberta and Saskatchewan cannot separate without Manitoba. You would need Hudson Bay to get your oil and LNG to international markets. Unfortunately, #Wexit has a small following here.Quote from: "Thiel"
I don't think full independence is what we want, but we can't rule it out either. Like Scott Moe said, a new deal with Ottawa.
That's the point. We don't want to separate from eastern Canada, but at the same time, we NEED to do it otherwise we're fucked! What Scott ans jason are doing is they are trying the "fair deal" line until things calm the fuck down, but i don't think wexit is going away and may happen if the east keep thumbing at us in an arrogant way. We're not ontario who gets mad for a few days and then pulls their pants around their ankles and begs the government to fuck them with new taxes.
I wish Manitoba was in on this. We are a have not province. Different from our two immediate Western neighbours.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on October 26, 2019, 11:36:21 AM
Post by: Anonymous on October 26, 2019, 11:36:21 AM
Is Wexit a reality fuelled by mounting frustration or simply an empty threat? Political experts weigh in
CALGARY — It's a proposal that experts are calling an "empty threat," an idea overblown by social media and a scenario that Alberta is "very, very far from." But proponents of separation say such a move could be achieved if the idea had support from a majority of citizens.
Since the Oct. 21 election saw the federal Conservatives win seats across Alberta and Saskatchewan and Canada's Liberal prime minister re-elected, talk of separation has ramped up online, and "Wexit" rallies are planned in Calgary, Red Deer and Edmonton next month.
But one local expert suggests that rather than focusing political frustrations on talks of separation and equalization, fixes to some federal-provincial fiscal arrangements might result in more concrete changes for the west.
University of Calgary economist Trevor Tombe sees the call for separation as "an empty threat" that would only lead to more challenges for Alberta, such as building pipelines through other jurisdictions. Where Alberta and Ottawa could have a productive conversation, he added, is around federal health and social transfers to provinces.
"Enlarging those payments, having them grow faster than just the overall growth of the economy because of an aging population — that's something that I think we do need to think about," Tombe said.
Other potential changes could include adjustments to the fiscal stabilization program, which aims to provide some federal insurance to provinces that see sharp drops in revenue.
"That program currently is very, very small, and so provides basically no meaningful insurance," Tombe said.
"So enlarging it, that's something that would not just have helped Alberta during the recession, but would help any province going through a recession or some kind of unique shock."
But when it comes to Canada's equalization program, "Alberta doesn't really have a lot to gain from any particular tweak," Tombe said.
"Because our income levels are so high, there doesn't exist any reasonable reform proposal that would result in Alberta getting equalization," he said. "That being said, Saskatchewan does have a case. So there are reasonable tweaks to the formula that would result in them receiving payment."
Former northeastern B.C. Conservative MP Jay Hill, who lives in Calgary, is among those advocating for Alberta and Saskatchewan to separate in the wake of the election results.
"To me there's a thin line between being a frustrated federalist and being a reluctant separatist, and I'm afraid that Mr. Trudeau, by various acts, has erased that line, at least for me, and I suspect for hundreds of thousands of other westerners, especially in Alberta and Saskatchewan," he said.
Hill believes residents from both provinces need to convince their premiers "to at least consider holding referendums ... and ask a clear question of whether they want to endeavour, at least, to negotiate the exit of those two provinces from confederation."
He even sees parts of B.C., such as the northern Peace Region that he used to represent, wanting to seek their own vote.
"To me, we've got to that point where our relationship with confederation is dysfunctional, and that no matter how much we regret it, no matter how messy it's going to be, that the only alternative, just as in a personal relationship, is divorce," Hill said.
One major impact that Alberta would face in the event of separation would be losing access to federal health programs, said University of Calgary School of Public Policy director Pierre-gerlier Forest.
Forest said while Alberta might be able to afford going without federal health transfers, there are many other important health services overseen by the federal government, such as health technology evaluation, disease prevention, preparation for epidemics, the national health data system, and improving health for Indigenous populations.
"I'm sure most people don't have any form of preoccupation with the evaluation of the scan machine in which they are placed by the doctor, or the prescription pill they receive," he said.
"But in the end, this work has to be performed somewhere. It is, at this moment, performed mostly with federal support, with people that have been recruited thanks to the capacity of the federal government to mobilize the right skills and the right people."
Eric Adams, vice-dean of the University of Alberta faculty of law, said regional tensions have always been a part of Canadian constitutional politics.
"Although this dynamic in the present moment seems to be unprecedented, I should think it's part of a much longer trend that's natural in a federation as large as Canada's, which is that sometimes, some of those places and some of those regions feel alienated from the centre of power," he said.
When it comes to the mechanics of separation as a legal matter, the rules are somewhat uncertain, and it's "incredibly complicated," he noted.
"What we do know is that the extent of the constitutional unwinding that would need to take place is extensive, dramatic and obviously a certain amount of chaos is necessarily introduced," Adams said.
"So the idea that there would be an orderly or easy exit of any one province from the federation is just dreaming, in that the number of legal, constitutional, political, economic, social and cultural connections that bind these provinces one to the other and to the federation are so numerous and so long-standing that severing them would be a gargantuan political effort."
However, separation wouldn't be impossible, Adams noted, as constitutions can be amended and unwritten.
According to the constitutional rules in the constitution itself, an amendment of this extent would require unanimous support from both Parliament and all the provinces. But according to a 1998 Supreme Court judgment on the legality of Quebec separating from Canada, if a clear answer arises from a clear referendum question, what comes next is negotiating separation.
"If you look at the rule book, it seems next to impossible," Adams said. "If you look to the Supreme Court of Canada's statement on separation, it looks exceptionally difficult but maybe feasible, if...those negotiations produce some workable separation arrangement."
Adams urged caution in measuring the extent of frustration in Alberta, given that everyone has access to publish their thoughts through social media.
"We can sometimes misinterpret political movements in such an environment, and the rest of Canada, I think, may be under the mistaken impression that there is a viable and vibrant separation movement in Alberta politics taking hold," he said.
"I would need to be convinced of a lot more evidence before I thought that that was a reality."
To me there's a thin line between being a frustrated federalist and being a reluctant separatist, and I'm afraid that Mr. Trudeau, by various acts, has erased that line, at least for me, and I suspect for hundreds of thousands of other westerners, especially in Alberta and Saskatchewan." Jay Hill, former tory MP
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on October 27, 2019, 03:39:06 PM
Post by: Anonymous on October 27, 2019, 03:39:06 PM
While Western Canada is voter-poor, it is resource-rich. Per capita income in Alberta and Saskatchewan is $78,213 and $69,095, respectively. In Quebec, it is $50,276. Under graduated federal tax rates, the more money that Ottawa spends, the more money that exits Western Canada. These figures help to explain why federal politicians who want to win elections like high-tax, high-spending budgets. Like the Liberals' proposal for a new publicly funded universal prescription drug plan.
This also helps to explain why since 1961 the net fiscal transfer of money out of Alberta has been $611 billion. And why since 2010 Ottawa has taken an average of over $20 billion a year out of Alberta, even when we were running nine consecutive deficit budgets. And why Quebec is now receiving two-thirds of every dollar in the federal equalization program. The electoral math is that simple.
What has been happening to Alberta for the past 50 years is not unique to Canada. The national governments in Spain and Italy routinely raid the treasuries of demographically small but economically wealthier regions to win national elections. Rome siphons revenues from Lombardy and Veneto in northern Italy to help win votes in the poorer but more populous southern Italy. Governments in Madrid do the same to Catalonia, the prosperous region that surrounds Barcelona. Significantly, in the past decade, voters/taxpayers in both Lombardy/Veneto and Catalonia have fought back by forming separatist parties and holding referendums to acquire more regional autonomy or secede. In both countries, these referendums have won strong majority support.
These different examples — Catalonia, Lombardy, Alberta — illustrate variations on a familiar theme in all contemporary democracies: parties try to win elections by promising to give a majority of the voters something for nothing. But instead of targeting wealthier corporations, families and individuals (always a minority of voters), successful national political parties target wealthier regions that have a minority of voters. The electoral math is that simple.
When viewed in this context, there is a growing realization for Albertans that the system itself is fatally flawed. That is, without structural or constitutional change, Alberta will continue to be vulnerable to fiscally predatory Liberal party politics and policies.
As Keith Davey, Pierre Trudeau's campaign strategist, so eloquently put it: "Screw the West. We'll take the Rest." It worked in 1980. It worked in 2019. And it will keep on working until the rules of the game are changed.
So no, the current wave of separatist sentiment in Alberta and Western Canada is not going to quickly dissipate as it has in the past. There is an applicable proverb: "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." Or as the French like to say, "Une fois, oui. Deux fois, non!"
The challenge for premiers Jason Kenney and Scott Moe will be to channel this new wave of separatist sentiment into meaningful and productive constitutional reforms. No easy task. Their success will depend in part on how receptive Ottawa will be to meaningful structural changes. To get things started, it might be helpful if the prime minister and his new cabinet googled "No taxation without representation" to learn how a "colonial grievance" sparked the first political revolt in North America.
Ted Morton is an executive fellow at the University of Calgary's School of Public Policy and a former minister of energy and finance in Alberta.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on October 27, 2019, 04:04:55 PM
Post by: Anonymous on October 27, 2019, 04:04:55 PM
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Berry Sweet on October 27, 2019, 04:43:55 PM
Post by: Berry Sweet on October 27, 2019, 04:43:55 PM
If western Canada wants to separate, id support it. Id support BC thru Manitoba separating. I have family in all 4 of those provinces. Ontario and Quebec can go fuck themselves since they think they are the only province in Canada that exists. No more equalization payments and they can take the national debt with them.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on October 27, 2019, 04:44:58 PM
Post by: Anonymous on October 27, 2019, 04:44:58 PM
I don't know much about politics, only that it is really messed up. I always felt Canada should have 2 leaders, one for the west and one for the east. Nobody is doing anything for western Canada...its like we don't exist. 9f course pms come to BC and talk bullshit and take selfies with our beautiful mountains in the background, but thats about it.Quote from: "Berry Sweet"
If western Canada wants to separate, id support it. Id support BC thru Manitoba separating. I have family in all 4 of those provinces. Ontario and Quebec can go fuck themselves since they think they are the only province in Canada that exists. No more equalization payments and they can take the national debt with them.
We would be a lot wealthier than the East.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Berry Sweet on October 27, 2019, 04:58:48 PM
Post by: Berry Sweet on October 27, 2019, 04:58:48 PM
I don't know much about politics, only that it is really messed up. I always felt Canada should have 2 leaders, one for the west and one for the east. Nobody is doing anything for western Canada...its like we don't exist. 9f course pms come to BC and talk bullshit and take selfies with our beautiful mountains in the background, but thats about it.Quote from: "Berry Sweet"
If western Canada wants to separate, id support it. Id support BC thru Manitoba separating. I have family in all 4 of those provinces. Ontario and Quebec can go fuck themselves since they think they are the only province in Canada that exists. No more equalization payments and they can take the national debt with them.
We would be a lot wealthier than the East.
Of course! I want our money to go to people in tgeir own provinces. Bring back more funds for schooling, start breakfast programs at all schools, provide funded tutoring for ALL kids who want it, not this Oxford or Sullivan for $800/mo bullshit, more funds for medical assistance and mental health...the court system need to be revanped or overhauled, get all those old farts off the bench and replace them with those who are modernly trained and get with the fuckin program! Good Lord, I could go on and on!
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on October 27, 2019, 05:01:58 PM
Post by: Anonymous on October 27, 2019, 05:01:58 PM
I don't know much about politics, only that it is really messed up. I always felt Canada should have 2 leaders, one for the west and one for the east. Nobody is doing anything for western Canada...its like we don't exist. 9f course pms come to BC and talk bullshit and take selfies with our beautiful mountains in the background, but thats about it.Quote from: "Berry Sweet"
If western Canada wants to separate, id support it. Id support BC thru Manitoba separating. I have family in all 4 of those provinces. Ontario and Quebec can go fuck themselves since they think they are the only province in Canada that exists. No more equalization payments and they can take the national debt with them.
We would be a lot wealthier than the East.
Of course! I want our money to go to people in tgeir own provinces. Bring back more funds for schooling, start breakfast programs at all schools, provide funded tutoring for ALL kids who want it, not this Oxford or Sullivan for $800/mo bullshit, more funds for medical assistance and mental health...the court system need to be revanped or overhauled, get all those old farts off the bench and replace them with those who are modernly trained and get with the fuckin program! Good Lord, I could go on and on!
That sounds like you want a lot of expensive civil servants with defined benefit pensions hired. We won't be a rich country for long if we do that.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Gaon on October 27, 2019, 06:00:17 PM
Post by: Gaon on October 27, 2019, 06:00:17 PM
According to former provincial cabinet minister, Ted Morton, this current separatist movement is not going away anytime soon.Quote from: "Fashionista"The demographic vulnerability of the West is compounded by our very different regional economies. Combined, Alberta (15.5 per cent), B.C. (13.2 per cent) and Saskatchewan (3.7 per cent) constitute 32.4 per cent — or almost one-third — of Canada's annual GDP. Quebec contributes only 19.5 per cent. Yet despite the fact that the West contributes 66 per cent more to Canada's economy than Quebec, we still have three fewer MPs.
While Western Canada is voter-poor, it is resource-rich. Per capita income in Alberta and Saskatchewan is $78,213 and $69,095, respectively. In Quebec, it is $50,276. Under graduated federal tax rates, the more money that Ottawa spends, the more money that exits Western Canada. These figures help to explain why federal politicians who want to win elections like high-tax, high-spending budgets. Like the Liberals' proposal for a new publicly funded universal prescription drug plan.
This also helps to explain why since 1961 the net fiscal transfer of money out of Alberta has been $611 billion. And why since 2010 Ottawa has taken an average of over $20 billion a year out of Alberta, even when we were running nine consecutive deficit budgets. And why Quebec is now receiving two-thirds of every dollar in the federal equalization program. The electoral math is that simple.
What has been happening to Alberta for the past 50 years is not unique to Canada. The national governments in Spain and Italy routinely raid the treasuries of demographically small but economically wealthier regions to win national elections. Rome siphons revenues from Lombardy and Veneto in northern Italy to help win votes in the poorer but more populous southern Italy. Governments in Madrid do the same to Catalonia, the prosperous region that surrounds Barcelona. Significantly, in the past decade, voters/taxpayers in both Lombardy/Veneto and Catalonia have fought back by forming separatist parties and holding referendums to acquire more regional autonomy or secede. In both countries, these referendums have won strong majority support.
These different examples — Catalonia, Lombardy, Alberta — illustrate variations on a familiar theme in all contemporary democracies: parties try to win elections by promising to give a majority of the voters something for nothing. But instead of targeting wealthier corporations, families and individuals (always a minority of voters), successful national political parties target wealthier regions that have a minority of voters. The electoral math is that simple.
When viewed in this context, there is a growing realization for Albertans that the system itself is fatally flawed. That is, without structural or constitutional change, Alberta will continue to be vulnerable to fiscally predatory Liberal party politics and policies.
As Keith Davey, Pierre Trudeau's campaign strategist, so eloquently put it: "Screw the West. We'll take the Rest." It worked in 1980. It worked in 2019. And it will keep on working until the rules of the game are changed.
So no, the current wave of separatist sentiment in Alberta and Western Canada is not going to quickly dissipate as it has in the past. There is an applicable proverb: "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." Or as the French like to say, "Une fois, oui. Deux fois, non!"
The challenge for premiers Jason Kenney and Scott Moe will be to channel this new wave of separatist sentiment into meaningful and productive constitutional reforms. No easy task. Their success will depend in part on how receptive Ottawa will be to meaningful structural changes. To get things started, it might be helpful if the prime minister and his new cabinet googled "No taxation without representation" to learn how a "colonial grievance" sparked the first political revolt in North America.
Ted Morton is an executive fellow at the University of Calgary's School of Public Policy and a former minister of energy and finance in Alberta.https://calgaryherald.com/opinion/columnists/morton-its-time-for-albertas-revolutionary-boston-tea-party-moment
I cannot believe this is happening in Canada.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Berry Sweet on October 27, 2019, 06:06:41 PM
Post by: Berry Sweet on October 27, 2019, 06:06:41 PM
I don't know much about politics, only that it is really messed up. I always felt Canada should have 2 leaders, one for the west and one for the east. Nobody is doing anything for western Canada...its like we don't exist. 9f course pms come to BC and talk bullshit and take selfies with our beautiful mountains in the background, but thats about it.Quote from: "Berry Sweet"
If western Canada wants to separate, id support it. Id support BC thru Manitoba separating. I have family in all 4 of those provinces. Ontario and Quebec can go fuck themselves since they think they are the only province in Canada that exists. No more equalization payments and they can take the national debt with them.
We would be a lot wealthier than the East.
Of course! I want our money to go to people in tgeir own provinces. Bring back more funds for schooling, start breakfast programs at all schools, provide funded tutoring for ALL kids who want it, not this Oxford or Sullivan for $800/mo bullshit, more funds for medical assistance and mental health...the court system need to be revanped or overhauled, get all those old farts off the bench and replace them with those who are modernly trained and get with the fuckin program! Good Lord, I could go on and on!
That sounds like you want a lot of expensive civil servants with defined benefit pensions hired. We won't be a rich country for long if we do that.
Its what people deserve but they're not getting it. A lot of people working for the government in useless jobs and they literally don't do anything and they're making $60/hr. This is one of the reasons why my sister moved to the states...she has a government job and in Canada, she wS doing the work for those lazy assesmaking huge amounts of money for no reason. In the US that doesnt happen...you'll get audited and fired...and now she's the head managment at her job and she actually works. Should be the same here, none of this government and union bullshit to protect lazy workers. Same goes for teachers...as I really think some teachers deserve better but many don't, they are fuckin useless...there are many ive had the opportunity to sit down with and discuss matters, they are so pathetic, I want to punch them in the face. I can't get into detail about some issues I have faced over the years, but the pressure is on...im starting to get information about some of these nasty teachers getting in trouble with the system...ive already given permission to my friend (who is also a teacher..and a good one.) to call the ministry in on me (cause of neglect of the school system) im in the middle of writing a paper/letter complaining about their asses...and eventually some time soon, Im going up to complain to the board. This is just a start. Im going to complain and fight this bullshit for all kids, not just mine. There are two other areas im gonna do the same thing with. Enough of this shit! Im not sitting back and letting these people get away with this. I went to court and I fought my ass off to protect my kid and I won...up against an idiot and a useless old fart of a judge giving out parenting advice from the 1970s....not good enough. The struggles ive had and the uselessness of the system are just mind boggling!! I dont even need the system anymore, ive learned how to do it on my own...and now im gonna take it to my level, with documentation...I want answers.
Im going off topic, my apologies, as far the wage goes in government, there needs to be cap offs and no lifetime pensions...thats just bullshit. Anyone should only get a package deal for 5 years tops. If they cant survive off that, then screw them.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on October 27, 2019, 06:26:13 PM
Post by: Anonymous on October 27, 2019, 06:26:13 PM
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Berry Sweet on October 27, 2019, 06:45:08 PM
Post by: Berry Sweet on October 27, 2019, 06:45:08 PM
The federal civil service is too big and expensive.Quote from: "Herman"
I agree with you. There are too many unnecessary idiots doing pointless jobs they aren't even qualified for...they are only in it for the money and pensions. This needs to stop. But people NEED to say something...not just sit back and be like, oh well....that doesn't help anyone. Nothing will change if no one says or does anything.
This is why I'm choosing to speak out about my personal situations and experiences within my province. No more of this hokus pokus. Im not standing for bullshit, fuck that...I want answers...I want to know why half of this shit exists and no one knows a damn thing that they are doing...im tired of being passed along from idiots who can't handle me..or the "lose" my paper work, didnt return my calls or emails....I documented all of this....and now I want answers for their stupidity. Someone is going to have to answer to this and I hope they lose their job!
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on October 27, 2019, 06:48:18 PM
Post by: Anonymous on October 27, 2019, 06:48:18 PM
The federal civil service is too big and expensive.Quote from: "Herman"
I agree with you. There are too many unnecessary idiots doing pointless jobs they aren't even qualified for...they are only in it for the money and pensions. This needs to stop. But people NEED to say something...not just sit back and be like, oh well....that doesn't help anyone. Nothing will change if no one says or does anything.
This is why I'm choosing to speak out about my personal situations and experiences within my province. No more of this hokus pokus. Im not standing for bullshit, fuck that...I want answers...I want to know why half of this shit exists and no one knows a damn thing that they are doing...im tired of being passed along from idiots who can't handle me..or the "lose" my paper work, didnt return my calls or emails....I documented all of this....and now I want answers for their stupidity. Someone is going to have to answer to this and I hope they lose their job!
And when the provinces or the feds tries balancing the books by firing those useless and expansive assholes they buy ads on media warning the sky will fall if their redundant jobs are axed.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Berry Sweet on October 27, 2019, 06:52:54 PM
Post by: Berry Sweet on October 27, 2019, 06:52:54 PM
But as long as they are giving me the run around and a hard time, I'll be a cunt and return the favor...better work, bitch.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on October 27, 2019, 06:57:45 PM
Post by: Anonymous on October 27, 2019, 06:57:45 PM
They'll do anything to save their jobs and idiots will believe them...more than half of Canada is so blind and dumb.Quote from: "Berry Sweet"
But as long as they are giving me the run around and a hard time, I'll be a cunt and return the favor...better work, bitch.
Ontario wanted to privatize their government owned liquor and beer stores to balance the budget. Of course thei union spent big bucks buying air time saying there would be chaos in the streets if independent liquor stores wee allowed.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Berry Sweet on October 27, 2019, 07:39:32 PM
Post by: Berry Sweet on October 27, 2019, 07:39:32 PM
They'll do anything to save their jobs and idiots will believe them...more than half of Canada is so blind and dumb.Quote from: "Berry Sweet"
But as long as they are giving me the run around and a hard time, I'll be a cunt and return the favor...better work, bitch.
Ontario wanted to privatize their government owned liquor and beer stores to balance the budget. Of course thei union spent big bucks buying air time saying there would be chaos in the streets if independent liquor stores wee allowed.
I don't like talking about it, but laws need to be formed for inside government that protect the people...but we all know that will never happen. It should be pretty obvious by now that Canadian government is a gong show...and a show pretty much it is, its nothing further than that. I cant take politics, scientists and other "professionals" (or whatever the fuck they choose to call themselves today) seriously anymore. There's no intelligence anywhere, anymore.
I don't give a fuck about Ontario...its always about Ontario. I hope they get an ice storm and everything freezes the fuck over...I hope Ontario get screwed and fucked up the ass, dry and hard., same with Quebec.
There's already chaos in the streets, but apparently, its ok.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on October 27, 2019, 07:46:43 PM
Post by: Anonymous on October 27, 2019, 07:46:43 PM
We have a lot of people calling in sick.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Berry Sweet on October 27, 2019, 07:52:14 PM
Post by: Berry Sweet on October 27, 2019, 07:52:14 PM
I work for the provincial government..Quote from: "Fashionista"
We have a lot of people calling in sick.
ac_unsure
And do you really think they're "sick"?
These people should be tossed and stripped of everything. If this was just a regular Joe or Jane they would be fired and left for homeless.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on October 27, 2019, 07:55:37 PM
Post by: Anonymous on October 27, 2019, 07:55:37 PM
I work for the provincial government..Quote from: "Fashionista"
We have a lot of people calling in sick.
ac_unsure
And do you really think they're "sick"?
These people should be tossed and stripped of everything. If this was just a regular Joe or Jane they would be fired and left for homeless.
Of course not Berry..
They often use all their paid sick days at once and take a paid three week vacation..
This is on top of their annual paid vacations..
It's an abuse of the system and it's wrong.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on October 27, 2019, 08:18:02 PM
Post by: Anonymous on October 27, 2019, 08:18:02 PM
They'll do anything to save their jobs and idiots will believe them...more than half of Canada is so blind and dumb.Quote from: "Berry Sweet"
But as long as they are giving me the run around and a hard time, I'll be a cunt and return the favor...better work, bitch.
Ontario wanted to privatize their government owned liquor and beer stores to balance the budget. Of course thei union spent big bucks buying air time saying there would be chaos in the streets if independent liquor stores wee allowed.
Yes, the government of Ontario controls alcohol retailing. Ford has allowed grocery stores to sell beer, but we still don't allow private liquor stores like the rest of the civilized world.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Berry Sweet on October 28, 2019, 02:01:51 AM
Post by: Berry Sweet on October 28, 2019, 02:01:51 AM
I work for the provincial government..Quote from: "Fashionista"
We have a lot of people calling in sick.
ac_unsure
And do you really think they're "sick"?
These people should be tossed and stripped of everything. If this was just a regular Joe or Jane they would be fired and left for homeless.
Of course not Berry..
They often use all their paid sick days at once and take a paid three week vacation..
This is on top of their annual paid vacations..
It's an abuse of the system and it's wrong.
Absolutely. And one reason why it keeps happening is because nobody says anything.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on October 28, 2019, 08:13:06 AM
Post by: Anonymous on October 28, 2019, 08:13:06 AM
I work for the provincial government..Quote from: "Fashionista"
We have a lot of people calling in sick.
ac_unsure
And do you really think they're "sick"?
These people should be tossed and stripped of everything. If this was just a regular Joe or Jane they would be fired and left for homeless.
Of course not Berry..
They often use all their paid sick days at once and take a paid three week vacation..
This is on top of their annual paid vacations..
It's an abuse of the system and it's wrong.
Absolutely. And one reason why it keeps happening is because nobody says anything.
The Alberta Union of Public Employees will never allow any provincial government to take away this abused perk.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: sasquatch on October 28, 2019, 03:05:00 PM
Post by: sasquatch on October 28, 2019, 03:05:00 PM
They'll do anything to save their jobs and idiots will believe them...more than half of Canada is so blind and dumb.Quote from: "Berry Sweet"
But as long as they are giving me the run around and a hard time, I'll be a cunt and return the favor...better work, bitch.
Ontario wanted to privatize their government owned liquor and beer stores to balance the budget. Of course thei union spent big bucks buying air time saying there would be chaos in the streets if independent liquor stores wee allowed.
Yes, the government of Ontario controls alcohol retailing. Ford has allowed grocery stores to sell beer, but we still don't allow private liquor stores like the rest of the civilized world.
lol! apparently it is because of the lucrative contracts the beer store and LCBO has signed with the government and brewers and want to fight to keep that monopoly.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on October 28, 2019, 03:44:07 PM
Post by: Anonymous on October 28, 2019, 03:44:07 PM
They'll do anything to save their jobs and idiots will believe them...more than half of Canada is so blind and dumb.Quote from: "Berry Sweet"
But as long as they are giving me the run around and a hard time, I'll be a cunt and return the favor...better work, bitch.
Ontario wanted to privatize their government owned liquor and beer stores to balance the budget. Of course thei union spent big bucks buying air time saying there would be chaos in the streets if independent liquor stores wee allowed.
Yes, the government of Ontario controls alcohol retailing. Ford has allowed grocery stores to sell beer, but we still don't allow private liquor stores like the rest of the civilized world.
lol! apparently it is because of the lucrative contracts the beer store and LCBO has signed with the government and brewers and want to fight to keep that monopoly.https://business.financialpost.com/opinion/dont-blame-doug-ford-for-the-costs-of-breaking-unfair-beer-retailing-contracts
That is a big part of it.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Zetsu on October 28, 2019, 05:27:11 PM
Post by: Zetsu on October 28, 2019, 05:27:11 PM
I don't know much about politics, only that it is really messed up. I always felt Canada should have 2 leaders, one for the west and one for the east. Nobody is doing anything for western Canada...its like we don't exist. 9f course pms come to BC and talk bullshit and take selfies with our beautiful mountains in the background, but thats about it.Quote from: "Berry Sweet"
If western Canada wants to separate, id support it. Id support BC thru Manitoba separating. I have family in all 4 of those provinces. Ontario and Quebec can go fuck themselves since they think they are the only province in Canada that exists. No more equalization payments and they can take the national debt with them.
We would be a lot wealthier than the East.
Of course! I want our money to go to people in tgeir own provinces. Bring back more funds for schooling, start breakfast programs at all schools, provide funded tutoring for ALL kids who want it, not this Oxford or Sullivan for $800/mo bullshit, more funds for medical assistance and mental health...the court system need to be revanped or overhauled, get all those old farts off the bench and replace them with those who are modernly trained and get with the fuckin program! Good Lord, I could go on and on!
That sounds like you want a lot of expensive civil servants with defined benefit pensions hired. We won't be a rich country for long if we do that.
I fully agree, since most of the people are selfish and delusional we should tax people based on how much service they use, that's really the only system that can save Canada from going into any more debt.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on October 28, 2019, 05:44:23 PM
Post by: Anonymous on October 28, 2019, 05:44:23 PM
I don't know much about politics, only that it is really messed up. I always felt Canada should have 2 leaders, one for the west and one for the east. Nobody is doing anything for western Canada...its like we don't exist. 9f course pms come to BC and talk bullshit and take selfies with our beautiful mountains in the background, but thats about it.Quote from: "Berry Sweet"
If western Canada wants to separate, id support it. Id support BC thru Manitoba separating. I have family in all 4 of those provinces. Ontario and Quebec can go fuck themselves since they think they are the only province in Canada that exists. No more equalization payments and they can take the national debt with them.
We would be a lot wealthier than the East.
Of course! I want our money to go to people in tgeir own provinces. Bring back more funds for schooling, start breakfast programs at all schools, provide funded tutoring for ALL kids who want it, not this Oxford or Sullivan for $800/mo bullshit, more funds for medical assistance and mental health...the court system need to be revanped or overhauled, get all those old farts off the bench and replace them with those who are modernly trained and get with the fuckin program! Good Lord, I could go on and on!
That sounds like you want a lot of expensive civil servants with defined benefit pensions hired. We won't be a rich country for long if we do that.
I fully agree, since most of the people are selfish and delusional we should tax people based on how much service they use, that's really the only system that can save Canada from going into any more debt.
I can't recall where I read it, but someone posted that affluent people shouldn't be charged more for the same services that lower income people pay nothing for or very little.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Zetsu on October 28, 2019, 07:20:18 PM
Post by: Zetsu on October 28, 2019, 07:20:18 PM
I don't know much about politics, only that it is really messed up. I always felt Canada should have 2 leaders, one for the west and one for the east. Nobody is doing anything for western Canada...its like we don't exist. 9f course pms come to BC and talk bullshit and take selfies with our beautiful mountains in the background, but thats about it.Quote from: "Berry Sweet"
If western Canada wants to separate, id support it. Id support BC thru Manitoba separating. I have family in all 4 of those provinces. Ontario and Quebec can go fuck themselves since they think they are the only province in Canada that exists. No more equalization payments and they can take the national debt with them.
We would be a lot wealthier than the East.
Of course! I want our money to go to people in tgeir own provinces. Bring back more funds for schooling, start breakfast programs at all schools, provide funded tutoring for ALL kids who want it, not this Oxford or Sullivan for $800/mo bullshit, more funds for medical assistance and mental health...the court system need to be revanped or overhauled, get all those old farts off the bench and replace them with those who are modernly trained and get with the fuckin program! Good Lord, I could go on and on!
That sounds like you want a lot of expensive civil servants with defined benefit pensions hired. We won't be a rich country for long if we do that.
I fully agree, since most of the people are selfish and delusional we should tax people based on how much service they use, that's really the only system that can save Canada from going into any more debt.
I can't recall where I read it, but someone posted that affluent people shouldn't be charged more for the same services that lower income people pay nothing for or very little.
I believe that the way how it should be, especially if the poor pays little to nothing then yea the government should promote a free market and privatization of public organizations along with offering more tax refund to families that fully switches to private services over public ones, again both side wins.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on October 28, 2019, 08:01:52 PM
Post by: Anonymous on October 28, 2019, 08:01:52 PM
I don't know much about politics, only that it is really messed up. I always felt Canada should have 2 leaders, one for the west and one for the east. Nobody is doing anything for western Canada...its like we don't exist. 9f course pms come to BC and talk bullshit and take selfies with our beautiful mountains in the background, but thats about it.Quote from: "Berry Sweet"
If western Canada wants to separate, id support it. Id support BC thru Manitoba separating. I have family in all 4 of those provinces. Ontario and Quebec can go fuck themselves since they think they are the only province in Canada that exists. No more equalization payments and they can take the national debt with them.
We would be a lot wealthier than the East.
Of course! I want our money to go to people in tgeir own provinces. Bring back more funds for schooling, start breakfast programs at all schools, provide funded tutoring for ALL kids who want it, not this Oxford or Sullivan for $800/mo bullshit, more funds for medical assistance and mental health...the court system need to be revanped or overhauled, get all those old farts off the bench and replace them with those who are modernly trained and get with the fuckin program! Good Lord, I could go on and on!
That sounds like you want a lot of expensive civil servants with defined benefit pensions hired. We won't be a rich country for long if we do that.
I fully agree, since most of the people are selfish and delusional we should tax people based on how much service they use, that's really the only system that can save Canada from going into any more debt.
I can't recall where I read it, but someone posted that affluent people shouldn't be charged more for the same services that lower income people pay nothing for or very little.
I believe that the way how it should be, especially if the poor pays little to nothing then yea the government should promote a free market and privatization of public organizations along with offering more tax refund to families that fully switches to private services over public ones, again both side wins.
I know I miss income splitting that the Harper government brought in and the Trudeau government cancelled..
It saved our family about 2000 a year.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Zetsu on October 28, 2019, 08:12:19 PM
Post by: Zetsu on October 28, 2019, 08:12:19 PM
I don't know much about politics, only that it is really messed up. I always felt Canada should have 2 leaders, one for the west and one for the east. Nobody is doing anything for western Canada...its like we don't exist. 9f course pms come to BC and talk bullshit and take selfies with our beautiful mountains in the background, but thats about it.Quote from: "Berry Sweet"
If western Canada wants to separate, id support it. Id support BC thru Manitoba separating. I have family in all 4 of those provinces. Ontario and Quebec can go fuck themselves since they think they are the only province in Canada that exists. No more equalization payments and they can take the national debt with them.
We would be a lot wealthier than the East.
Of course! I want our money to go to people in tgeir own provinces. Bring back more funds for schooling, start breakfast programs at all schools, provide funded tutoring for ALL kids who want it, not this Oxford or Sullivan for $800/mo bullshit, more funds for medical assistance and mental health...the court system need to be revanped or overhauled, get all those old farts off the bench and replace them with those who are modernly trained and get with the fuckin program! Good Lord, I could go on and on!
That sounds like you want a lot of expensive civil servants with defined benefit pensions hired. We won't be a rich country for long if we do that.
I fully agree, since most of the people are selfish and delusional we should tax people based on how much service they use, that's really the only system that can save Canada from going into any more debt.
I can't recall where I read it, but someone posted that affluent people shouldn't be charged more for the same services that lower income people pay nothing for or very little.
I believe that the way how it should be, especially if the poor pays little to nothing then yea the government should promote a free market and privatization of public organizations along with offering more tax refund to families that fully switches to private services over public ones, again both side wins.
I know I miss income splitting that the Harper government brought in and the Trudeau government cancelled..
It saved our family about 2000 a year.
$2000 isn't bad tbh, it might not be a lot based on what you and your husband make but least it's still better than no savings. I'm just glad Ontario had vote Doug Ford as our premier and remove Kathleen Wayne out of power before she could make things any more worst.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on October 28, 2019, 08:19:01 PM
Post by: Anonymous on October 28, 2019, 08:19:01 PM
I don't know much about politics, only that it is really messed up. I always felt Canada should have 2 leaders, one for the west and one for the east. Nobody is doing anything for western Canada...its like we don't exist. 9f course pms come to BC and talk bullshit and take selfies with our beautiful mountains in the background, but thats about it.Quote from: "Berry Sweet"
If western Canada wants to separate, id support it. Id support BC thru Manitoba separating. I have family in all 4 of those provinces. Ontario and Quebec can go fuck themselves since they think they are the only province in Canada that exists. No more equalization payments and they can take the national debt with them.
We would be a lot wealthier than the East.
Of course! I want our money to go to people in tgeir own provinces. Bring back more funds for schooling, start breakfast programs at all schools, provide funded tutoring for ALL kids who want it, not this Oxford or Sullivan for $800/mo bullshit, more funds for medical assistance and mental health...the court system need to be revanped or overhauled, get all those old farts off the bench and replace them with those who are modernly trained and get with the fuckin program! Good Lord, I could go on and on!
That sounds like you want a lot of expensive civil servants with defined benefit pensions hired. We won't be a rich country for long if we do that.
I fully agree, since most of the people are selfish and delusional we should tax people based on how much service they use, that's really the only system that can save Canada from going into any more debt.
I can't recall where I read it, but someone posted that affluent people shouldn't be charged more for the same services that lower income people pay nothing for or very little.
I believe that the way how it should be, especially if the poor pays little to nothing then yea the government should promote a free market and privatization of public organizations along with offering more tax refund to families that fully switches to private services over public ones, again both side wins.
I know I miss income splitting that the Harper government brought in and the Trudeau government cancelled..
It saved our family about 2000 a year.
$2000 isn't bad tbh, it might not be a lot based on what you and your husband make but least it's still better than no savings. I'm just glad Ontario had vote Doug Ford as our premier and remove Kathleen Wayne out of power before she could make things any more worst.
It made a difference when Harper brought in income splitting..
It was $2000 we could spend on our children's education and extracurricular activities instead of Ottawa taking it..
And we missed it when Justin Trudeau cancelled income splitting.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on October 28, 2019, 08:31:32 PM
Post by: Anonymous on October 28, 2019, 08:31:32 PM
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on October 28, 2019, 09:07:56 PM
Post by: Anonymous on October 28, 2019, 09:07:56 PM
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on October 29, 2019, 07:23:44 AM
Post by: Anonymous on October 29, 2019, 07:23:44 AM
The average family with dependent kids can use two grand a lot more than Justine can.Quote from: "Herman"
We miss keeping that money..
I doubt Ottawa needs it as much as we do.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on October 29, 2019, 08:17:22 AM
Post by: Anonymous on October 29, 2019, 08:17:22 AM
The average family with dependent kids can use two grand a lot more than Justine can.Quote from: "Herman"
We miss keeping that money..
I doubt Ottawa needs it as much as we do.
Black face make up and costumes aint cheap.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on October 29, 2019, 12:01:07 PM
Post by: Anonymous on October 29, 2019, 12:01:07 PM
The average family with dependent kids can use two grand a lot more than Justine can.Quote from: "Herman"
We miss keeping that money..
I doubt Ottawa needs it as much as we do.
Black face make up and costumes aint cheap.
Neither are mult million dollar payouts to killer terrorists.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Berry Sweet on October 30, 2019, 01:40:16 AM
Post by: Berry Sweet on October 30, 2019, 01:40:16 AM
Of course not Berry..
They often use all their paid sick days at once and take a paid three week vacation..
This is on top of their annual paid vacations..
It's an abuse of the system and it's wrong.
Absolutely. And one reason why it keeps happening is because nobody says anything.[/quote]
The Alberta Union of Public Employees will never allow any provincial government to take away this abused perk.[/quote]
A lot of things are just wrong on so many levels.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on October 30, 2019, 07:20:29 AM
Post by: Anonymous on October 30, 2019, 07:20:29 AM
Of course not Berry..
They often use all their paid sick days at once and take a paid three week vacation..
This is on top of their annual paid vacations..
It's an abuse of the system and it's wrong.
Absolutely. And one reason why it keeps happening is because nobody says anything.
The Alberta Union of Public Employees will never allow any provincial government to take away this abused perk.[/quote]
A lot of things are just wrong on so many levels.[/quote]
It's standard among provincial civil services across Canada and the federal civil service.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on November 02, 2019, 12:37:39 PM
Post by: Anonymous on November 02, 2019, 12:37:39 PM
Trudeau fiddles while Prairies burn
Justin Trudeau loves standing up for Canadian jobs, as long as those jobs are in Quebec, or maybe somewhere else in central Canada. When it comes to jobs or companies leaving places like Alberta, Trudeau is silent.
"One of the fundamental jobs of any prime minister is to stand up for the public interest, to stand up for Canadian jobs," Trudeau said at a campaign stop in Toronto in September.
He had been asked about his actions on the SNC_ Lavalin file, a file where the PM went so far as to actually break the ethics law. He was found guilty of breaching the ethics act and may still be found guilty of obstruction of justice.
It was all worth it to Trudeau because in his mind, he was protecting jobs and keeping the head office of a major company in Quebec.
Yet when Encana, a Calgary-based company with a history dating back to the 1880s, announces that it will change its name to drop reference to Canada and that they will "domesticate" in the United States, there is nothing. The man who conducts foreign diplomacy by Twitter and who signals how great Canada is in 280 characters or less suddenly can't find the app on his phone.
As I write, Trudeau has been silent on this issue. His office, asked for comment, has yet to respond.
Compare this reaction to how far out of his way Trudeau went for SNC-Lavalin. Or perhaps compare how his government dealt with news of GM winding down jobs at their Oshawa plant.
Officials in the Ford government tell me they were in contact with the feds almost hourly, the PM and Premier Ford spoke directly. Has Trudeau called Alberta Premier Jason Kenney on this?
Not yet.
Sure, this isn't exactly the same thing, but for Alberta it is very similar. A major player is leaving for the U.S. and our federal government is all but silent.
There have been people claiming this is no big deal, that Encana was a badly managed company anyway. I think you could say the same about SNC-Lavalin. I mean when you keep getting charged with bribery and the like in this country and elsewhere, I'd say that is a badly managed company.
Yet, Trudeau would go so far as to interfere in a criminal prosecution for SNC, he can't pick up the phone for Encana.
Is the departure of this once Canadian giant all Trudeau's fault? No, of course not, but that doesn't mean it isn't a factor. Encana is hardly alone. Citadel Drilling was recently profiled as a company that moved its oil rigs from Alberta to Texas and they are not alone. The number of oil rigs in Canada has been cut by close to half over the last several years. Investment in the sector has slowed considerably.
Meanwhile,
Trudeau was re-elected last week without a single MP in Alberta and Saskatchewan. He has acknowledged that western alienation is a problem that his government will have to deal with.
Yet,
That wouldn't happen if Encana was based in Quebec or Ontario.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on November 02, 2019, 03:22:13 PM
Post by: Anonymous on November 02, 2019, 03:22:13 PM
Forget Greenland — Trump should offer statehood to these Canadian provincesQuote
President Trump's offer to purchase Greenland from Denmark was front-page news in August, but a better option for expanding the country's geographic footprint would be to offer statehood to the Canadian provinces of Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba, as well as the interior of British Columbia.
After the final results of the recent Canadian election, there's likely a growing group of Western Canadians who might seriously consider that offer.
With their livelihoods at stake, many Western Canadians may be wondering whether they even belong in Canada anymore. Their concerns are based in the West's well-established distrust of Eastern politicians who claim the right to oversee the development and disposition of Western natural resources. This time, Western separatism comes with the handy hashtag, #Wexit.
If these provinces did seriously push for separation, and they were willing to entertain the invite, the United States would be smart to welcome them with open arms. We'd surely benefit by adding these four stars to the U.S. flag.
That's because the interior of British Columbia and the province of Alberta exhibit the same rough-and-rugged individualism that is found in Montana. Both areas have their roots in mining, forestry, oil and gas and ranching, and they recognize the value of wisely using resources as the engine to drive a strong economy.
A little further east, Saskatchewan and Manitoba have the strong, independent mindset of those in the Great Plains states. Their people, who can withstand the blistering prairie winters, are the ones who produce much of the grains and livestock that feed the rest of the nation.
The United States already is the largest producer of oil and natural gas in the world, but with Alberta, Saskatchewan and northern British Columbia in the fold, we would be completely dominant.
Western Canadians also would benefit greatly from becoming states. In this case, they would be freed from the constraints of Trudeau's carbon tax as well as the need for the U.S. State Department to authorize oil pipelines to their major customers.
Currently, any pipeline that crosses the U.S. border needs State Department approval. But the Obama administration abused that authority by endlessly delaying the construction of the Keystone XL pipeline from Western Canada.
Removing this regulatory roadblock would be a boon to the energy industry and a significant economic boost to Western Canadian families, who likely feel unappreciated and abused by politicians in Eastern Canada.
Of course, offering statehood is a bit of a stretch. Western Canadian separatism has been bubbling under the surface for decades and hasn't been acted on before. But many in the U.S. recognize that the Western provinces are far more than just cash cows for Ottawa's social welfare and environmental schemes. Urban Canadian areas would do well to do the same.https://thehill.com/opinion/energy-environment/468606-forget-greenland-trump-should-offer-statehood-to-these-canadian
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Gaon on November 02, 2019, 04:14:12 PM
Post by: Gaon on November 02, 2019, 04:14:12 PM
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on November 02, 2019, 06:50:24 PM
Post by: Anonymous on November 02, 2019, 06:50:24 PM
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on November 02, 2019, 08:24:37 PM
Post by: Anonymous on November 02, 2019, 08:24:37 PM
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on November 02, 2019, 08:34:57 PM
Post by: Anonymous on November 02, 2019, 08:34:57 PM
There was a big Alberta independence rally in Edmonton with 700 supporters in attendance.Quote from: "Shen Li"https://www.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=1786014&playlistId=1.4638110&binId=1.810401&playlistPageNum=1&binPageNum=1
I have not heard of any rallies here yet. But, in rural Saskatchewan there is a lot of support for an independent prairie Canada.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on November 03, 2019, 10:15:49 AM
Post by: Anonymous on November 03, 2019, 10:15:49 AM
Albertans may disagree on whether or not the ultimate goal should be independence, but there is one common element to this entire equation: the status quo is not acceptable.
Confederation is broken.
That is an undeniable truth that now lies exposed at the bitter end of an election campaign that saw Alberta used as a punching bag by four of the five parties that now comprise membership in the House of Commons.
"We're shutting down the oilsands by 2030," said Green Party leader Elizabeth May.
Jagmeet Singh, leader of a New Democratic Party that lost 15 seats, has vowed to continue to fight against development of the TransMountain pipeline, a vital piece of infrastructure needed for resource development in Alberta and Saskatchewan.
Justin Trudeau – still the Prime Minister – has done more to ignite western alienation with Bill C-69 and C-48 than any other prime minister in recent memory.
And don't forget Yves-Francois Blanchet, leader of the separatist Bloc Quebecois, who proposed revisions to the equalization system that would further cripple the Western economy, deepening a recession that has left the region reeling.
A plan.
It was almost twenty years ago that six prominent Albertans penned what would become universally known as the 'Firewall Letter'. The letter outlined several key points that would create a semi-autonomous Alberta within confederation.
Twenty years later, none of the suggestions made by Stephen Harper, Ted Morton, Tom Flanagan, Rainer Knopff, Andrew Crooks and Ken Boessenkoel have been put into place.
But the political climate has shifted. Never before has one region become so singularly outcast by the political elites, and Westerners have never been the favoured sons of the Laurentian Elite in Ottawa.
There are concrete steps that the Alberta government could take immediately in order to wrest power back from Ottawa.
The proposals in Project Confederation's Open Letter to Premier Kenney include three immediate referendum questions: one to abolish Canada's equalization program; another to clarify Section 92 and Section 121 of the Constitution Act – allowing for unrestricted movement of goods, services and infrastructure across provinces. And third, to reform the Senate to include an equal number of elected senators per province while giving the upper chamber effective powers in order to act as a check on any federal government bent on encroaching in provincial jurisdiction.
Also included in the letter are initiatives to collect our own revenue from personal income tax; creating an Alberta Pension Plan and withdrawing from the Canada Pension Plan; establishing a provincial police force at earliest convenience; establishing an independent Alberta immigration system (as Quebec has already done); and resuming provincial responsibility for health care, social policy, and infrastructure.
It is time for Albertans to boldly stand up for our own future and seek – as much as possible – to be the masters of our own destiny.
This means resuming control of the powers that we possess under the Constitution of Canada but which we have allowed the federal government to exercise for too long.
I have been reading anything I can since this latest election which saw four out of five parties campaign against the prairie provinces. Canada could look very different in the future.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on November 03, 2019, 10:24:43 AM
Post by: Anonymous on November 03, 2019, 10:24:43 AM
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Thiel on November 03, 2019, 01:39:00 PM
Post by: Thiel on November 03, 2019, 01:39:00 PM
I don't support prairie separatism. But, I do support much more Western autonomy. The status quo does not work.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on November 04, 2019, 03:56:55 PM
Post by: Anonymous on November 04, 2019, 03:56:55 PM
It would be difficult to get products to market if western provinces split from Canada, experts say
International trade experts say it's a pipe dream to think the landlocked oil-producing western provinces would have an easier time getting their product to international markets if they were to split from Canada.
"Wexit" — an apparent play on the word "Brexit" used to describe the United Kingdom's planned departure from the European Union — was trending on social media after the Liberals secured a minority government in last week's federal election, but were shut out of Alberta and Saskatchewan.
Peter Downing, a founder of the western separatist movement that wants a referendum on separation, has said an independent country in the middle of the Prairies could leverage the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea to gain coastal pipeline access.
"We have more freedom as an independent country to get our resources to the coast than as part of Canada," he said the day after the election.
"We'll have the best of both worlds: We'll keep our money and we'll have access to the coast."
The UN convention, adopted in 1982, does say that "landlocked states shall enjoy freedom of transit through the territory of transit states by all means of transport."
However, it goes on to say that terms "shall be agreed between the landlocked states and transit states concerned through bilateral, subregional or regional agreements," and that transit states have the right to ensure their "legitimate interests" aren't infringed upon.
"It's not an unqualified right. They can't just say, 'OK, we need to get through here,"' said Silvia Maciunas, a fellow at the Centre for International Governance Innovation in Waterloo, Ont.
"They have to talk to the other state, which would be Canada."
The "means of transport" in the convention refers to railways, waterways, roads and even porters and pack animals, but the treaty specifies that landlocked and transit states would have to agree to add pipelines to the list.
Landlocked countries such as Ethiopia and Switzerland have long had agreements to use ports in other countries.
Bolivia, on the other hand, lost its ocean access in a war with Chile in the 1800s and has been fighting to regain it ever since. The International Court of Justice in The Hague ruled last year that Chile has no obligation to engage in talks with Bolivia.
"Had the court ruled in the favour of Bolivia, Chile would have theoretically been obligated to enter into 'good faith' negotiations, whatever the heck that means," said Carlo Dade, director of the Trade and Investment Centre at the Canada West Foundation.
"You can imagine how that would play out up here if Alberta, Saskatchewan leave ... We've seen enough out of B.C. to know how that would play out," said Dade.
The British Columbia government has resisted, primarily through court actions, the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion that would triple the amount of crude shipped between Alberta and the Lower Mainland.
Add to that there is no real enforcement mechanism through the international court, Dade said.
"The only thing the ICJ gives you is the ability to go from saying, 'Please give us access' to 'Pretty please give us access."'
Canada would need a damned good reason to block a new landlocked nation from using it's ports.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on November 04, 2019, 04:35:20 PM
Post by: Anonymous on November 04, 2019, 04:35:20 PM
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on November 04, 2019, 06:55:32 PM
Post by: Anonymous on November 04, 2019, 06:55:32 PM
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on November 04, 2019, 07:49:50 PM
Post by: Anonymous on November 04, 2019, 07:49:50 PM
Alberta must adopt Quebec's playbook and become a "nation" within a nation or threaten to leave. The ballot box does not work and Alberta is Canada's breadwinner, but is treated like a stepchild.
Step one is for Alberta to demand the immediate construction of the TMX pipeline and the scrapping of Bills C-48 and C-69. No delays.
Then Alberta should stage a referendum before Christmas 2019 on opting out of, or revamping, Canada's unjust equalization system. (Since 2010, Ottawa has taken an average of over $20 billion a year out of Alberta; Quebec receives $13 billion, or two-thirds of every dollar in the federal equalization program.) It's a bribe to Quebec with Alberta money which is why Justin Trudeau recently extended the system to 2024 — an extension which should be nullified.
Some say such a referendum won't force renegotiation, but it cannot be ignored either. Referenda have provided Quebec with leverage.
Then Alberta must take steps toward autonomy: Withdraw from the Canada Pension Plan, subsidized heavily by the province due to its high incomes and youthful demographics. Quebec did this in 1966. If Alberta withdrew, its workers and employers would pay half the CPP premiums they now pay and the rest of Canada would have to pay at least 10 per cent more. Alberta would then get tens of billions from its share of the $440-billion CPP fund to invest in new projects.
Alberta should, as Quebec did, take control from the federal government of all tax collection, border control, policing and immigration in return for lower taxes. It should serve notice to Ottawa that it is opting out of any new health and social programs, thus keeping the money in Alberta. (In 2015, the NDP proposed to let Quebec alone do this).
Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba should warn the Trudeau government that punitive carbon taxes on provinces unwilling to go along with their draconian climate change policy, won't be obeyed. This is in their "national interest" and could cost as much as $35 billion a year, bankrupting many of western Canada's industries and farms. Ontario's too.
Next, Alberta must sponsor two projects, initiated by First Nations: One carrying oil by rail or pipeline from the oilsands to Valdez and another carrying oil by pipeline from Alberta to British Columbia, then Alaska. Both projects would follow routes pre-approved by local First Nations, bypassing Ottawa's meddling completely. Then Alberta must work with Manitoba to establish a pipeline and oil port in Churchill to ship oil to the east coast or Europe. All projects are viable that Alberta and investors could finance.
Alberta is captive to a system that economically strangles and disenfranchises its enterprising people even though it is, on its own, the fourth largest oil producer in the world — after the U.S., Russia and Saudi Arabia. Its economy is the same size as Quebec's, and combined with Saskatchewan is nearly 20 per cent bigger. It is Canada's single engine of economic growth now and in the future.
Finally, the Tories should table in Parliament the following for approval which was approved on behalf of Quebec: "That this House recognize that Alberta and Saskatchewan form a nation within a united Canada."
That's what Stephen Harper did for Quebec as prime minister. It's now what Trudeau must do for Alberta and Saskatchewan.
If not, then separation is inevitable.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: @realAzhyaAryola on November 04, 2019, 08:39:19 PM
Post by: @realAzhyaAryola on November 04, 2019, 08:39:19 PM
I cannot believe what I am witnessing. We will go back to Israel if Canada becomes two nations.Quote from: "Gaon"
I do not think it will happen at all.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on November 04, 2019, 08:41:12 PM
Post by: Anonymous on November 04, 2019, 08:41:12 PM
I cannot believe what I am witnessing. We will go back to Israel if Canada becomes two nations.Quote from: "Gaon"
I do not think it will happen at all.
The status quo is no longer an option either.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on November 04, 2019, 09:24:01 PM
Post by: Anonymous on November 04, 2019, 09:24:01 PM
I cannot believe what I am witnessing. We will go back to Israel if Canada becomes two nations.Quote from: "Gaon"
I do not think it will happen at all.
The status quo is no longer an option either.
The premier of your province said the same.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Berry Sweet on November 05, 2019, 02:22:56 AM
Post by: Berry Sweet on November 05, 2019, 02:22:56 AM
I cannot believe what I am witnessing. We will go back to Israel if Canada becomes two nations.Quote from: "Gaon"
I do not think it will happen at all.
The status quo is no longer an option either.
I agree. Fuck the east.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on November 05, 2019, 06:30:15 AM
Post by: Anonymous on November 05, 2019, 06:30:15 AM
I cannot believe what I am witnessing. We will go back to Israel if Canada becomes two nations.Quote from: "Gaon"
I do not think it will happen at all.
The status quo is no longer an option either.
I agree. Fuck the east.
Maybe they need a reminder that the federal government's job is not to block the economic development of one region of the country.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on November 05, 2019, 07:09:35 AM
Post by: Anonymous on November 05, 2019, 07:09:35 AM
Canada net deficit in exports / imports is -$60 billion. Majority of AB export / imports is with the USA. Net is Canada needs Alberta.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on November 05, 2019, 07:10:35 AM
Post by: Anonymous on November 05, 2019, 07:10:35 AM
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on November 05, 2019, 12:48:49 PM
Post by: Anonymous on November 05, 2019, 12:48:49 PM
In 2017 according to Statscan Alberta paid $50.3 Billion to Ottawa, received 28.4 billion for a net contribution of $21.842 billion. In 2014 the net contribution was $27.06 billion. So alberta would have $50 billion to decide how to allocate.Quote from: "seoulbro"
Canada cannot survive without Alberta and SK.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on November 05, 2019, 10:40:50 PM
Post by: Anonymous on November 05, 2019, 10:40:50 PM
From Statscan - the exports / imports for ABSKMB is surplus +$94 billion. The export / imports deficit for Eastern Canada is -$145 billion. BC is deficit of -$12 billion.Quote from: "seoulbro"
Canada net deficit in exports / imports is -$60 billion. Majority of AB export / imports is with the USA. Net is Canada needs Alberta.
Canada would go broke without Alberta.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on November 06, 2019, 09:02:11 PM
Post by: Anonymous on November 06, 2019, 09:02:11 PM
Wheatland County in southern Alberta passed a resolution on Tuesday demanding changes in confederation – that if rejected by Ottawa – would trigger a referendum on Alberta's independence.
STRATHMORE, AB: Wheatland County in southern Alberta passed a resolution on Tuesday demanding changes in confederation – that if rejected by Ottawa – would trigger a referendum on Alberta's independence.
The resolution, by Jason Wilson, a councillor in Wheatland County, was passed unanimously and will now be sent to municipalities and cities across Alberta for their input.
The motion calls for the province's withdrawal from the Canada Pension Plan, a start to collecting it's own income tax, the end of equalization payments, Senate reform, replacing the RCMP and better control over immigration into Alberta.
Wilson's resolution says if those issues aren't dealt with then a referendum on independence would be held Oct. 18, 2021.
"We can't silence debate. I'm not a separatist. I'm an Albertan and I want to fix confederation," Wilson said at the council meeting near Strathmore Tuesday.
"If things aren't fixed we are going to continue to bend over."
Wilson was a Jason Kenney delegate for his 2017 run for the PC leadership, and currently holds memberships in the United Conservative Party of Alberta, Freedom Conservative Party of Alberta, and the People's Party of Canada.
People's Party of Canada candidate for the area's Bow River constituency Tom Ikert is also a Wheatland councillor, and voted for the motion.
The reeve of Wheatland County, Amber Link, said she expected the motion to be met with strong support across the province.
In an interview, Wilson told the Western Standard it was a deep sense of frustration that led to him bringing forward the motion.
He said while door-knocking for a friend running for office, all he heard from voters was their frustration where Alberta is at the moment in Confederation.
"I'm a sixth generation Albertan. Our family has lost members in both World Wars. They were fighting for a better future that might now be getting thrown under the bus. Our family didn't lose (a member) in World War One to have Justin Trudeau throw away all our values," he said.
Wilson said he will now work with other municipal officials across the province to "tweak" the motion to have it ready for a central zone meeting in February, followed by a province-wide meeting in March.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on November 06, 2019, 09:15:48 PM
Post by: Anonymous on November 06, 2019, 09:15:48 PM
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on November 07, 2019, 08:41:22 PM
Post by: Anonymous on November 07, 2019, 08:41:22 PM
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on November 07, 2019, 08:53:39 PM
Post by: Anonymous on November 07, 2019, 08:53:39 PM
That politician is Justin Trudeau.
In 2012, he said on Radio-Canada: "I always say, if there came a point where I thought Canada really was Stephen Harper's Canada—that we were against abortion, against gay marriage, that we went backwards in 10,000 different ways—maybe I'd consider making Quebec a country. Oh yes. Absolutely. I know my values very well, even if I no longer recognized Canada."
Within days, he turned on that position entirely. All was forgiven and forgotten.
Jason Kenney, the premier of Alberta, does not get such an easy ride. For merely bringing up the fact that separatist sentiment in Alberta is on the rise—a trend apparent years before he returned to Midnapore from Ottawa—he has been lambasted as a politician attempting to stoke that sentiment for his own political gain. As if he needed the boost.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on November 07, 2019, 09:35:58 PM
Post by: Anonymous on November 07, 2019, 09:35:58 PM
I thought this was interesting.Quote from: "Fashionista"There is at least one major politician in this country who has publicly expressed a desire to separate from Canada if he didn't get his way politically.
That politician is Justin Trudeau.
In 2012, he said on Radio-Canada: "I always say, if there came a point where I thought Canada really was Stephen Harper's Canada—that we were against abortion, against gay marriage, that we went backwards in 10,000 different ways—maybe I'd consider making Quebec a country. Oh yes. Absolutely. I know my values very well, even if I no longer recognized Canada."
Within days, he turned on that position entirely. All was forgiven and forgotten.
Jason Kenney, the premier of Alberta, does not get such an easy ride. For merely bringing up the fact that separatist sentiment in Alberta is on the rise—a trend apparent years before he returned to Midnapore from Ottawa—he has been lambasted as a politician attempting to stoke that sentiment for his own political gain. As if he needed the boost.https://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/why-so-many-albertans-are-giving-up-on-their-country/?utm_source=UrbanAirship&utm_medium=WebNotifications&utm_campaign=MME_WN&utm_term=07-Nov-2019&utm_content=Gerson_on_Wexit
Only Quebeckers are allowed to talk like this.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on November 07, 2019, 09:56:31 PM
Post by: Anonymous on November 07, 2019, 09:56:31 PM
I thought this was interesting.Quote from: "Fashionista"There is at least one major politician in this country who has publicly expressed a desire to separate from Canada if he didn't get his way politically.
That politician is Justin Trudeau.
In 2012, he said on Radio-Canada: "I always say, if there came a point where I thought Canada really was Stephen Harper's Canada—that we were against abortion, against gay marriage, that we went backwards in 10,000 different ways—maybe I'd consider making Quebec a country. Oh yes. Absolutely. I know my values very well, even if I no longer recognized Canada."
Within days, he turned on that position entirely. All was forgiven and forgotten.
Jason Kenney, the premier of Alberta, does not get such an easy ride. For merely bringing up the fact that separatist sentiment in Alberta is on the rise—a trend apparent years before he returned to Midnapore from Ottawa—he has been lambasted as a politician attempting to stoke that sentiment for his own political gain. As if he needed the boost.https://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/why-so-many-albertans-are-giving-up-on-their-country/?utm_source=UrbanAirship&utm_medium=WebNotifications&utm_campaign=MME_WN&utm_term=07-Nov-2019&utm_content=Gerson_on_Wexit
Only Quebeckers are allowed to talk like this.
I remember Justine saying this.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on November 07, 2019, 10:01:13 PM
Post by: Anonymous on November 07, 2019, 10:01:13 PM
Election follow up: A proud Canadian's heartbreaking breakup letter with Canada
ubmitted by Mark Meincke of Okotoks
Dear Canada,
When I was a child, Pierre Elliott Trudeau was our Prime Minister, and when he instituted the National Energy Program, Alberta was devastated. My Dad was a successful business owner, who employed dozens and dozens of people. All his employees lost their jobs. We declared bankruptcy, and were foreclosed on. My Dad lost everything, so my parents, my sister and I lost our home.
Our family went from being successful, to living in our Uncles basement for a year. Our family spent a full year, with 10 people in a house that only had one bathroom. It was rough for all of us...but we made it through. Alberta eventually recovered, but our family never fully bounced back, and we still feel the pain to this day.
On October 21rst, you re-elected Justin Trudeau to be your Prime Minister.
Like you, I'm a proud Canadian, and have proven my loyalty by risking my life in a war zone to protect our country. I was wounded there, and have been suffering from those wounds for over 20 years. My family has also suffered from those wounds, and is still suffering today.
Canada, you elected a Prime Minister who said that Veterans were asking for more than the government is willing to give....so every day another Veteran who is desperate for help, takes their own life. Their cries for help continue to go unanswered.
Canada, you elected a Government who has openly declared they will destroy the Alberta energy sector, which will destroy Alberta. Your response..."Well, I guess Alberta should have diversified their economy...so tough luck". You don't seem to understand, that it's more than the oil sector you've shut down. Hundreds of restaurants have already shut down, with hundreds more about too.. Downtown Calgary high rises are vacant, property values are dropping, and businesses of all sorts are evaporating with no end in sight.
Tens of thousands of people have lost their jobs, have gone bankrupt, and have lost their homes. Suicide is on the rise, and mental health is on the decline. All of this pain...and you don't seem to notice. Still...somehow it is US who is paying YOU equalization payments. How is this possible? If you won't help us by sending the cash back in our direction, at least stop taking our money until we can get back on our feet....please!
Canada, you chose to replace the cleanest, most ethical oil in the world with Saudi oil. By doing so, you are supporting a dictatorship that kills homosexuals, and subjugates women. How can you be in favor of human rights, gay rights, and women's rights....and yet support Saudi oil?
The result of your decision, is LESS clean, ethical oil, and MORE dirty, unethical oil. ZERO improvement will occur with carbon emissions, instead there will be MORE emissions, and LESS progress on human rights. Destroying the Alberta energy sector goes against all of your beliefs and morals...yet somehow you still justify your decision.
When we pleaded for help, you rolled your eyes. When Alberta warned you that our separtist sentiment was on the rise, you scoffed. When Justin Trudeau...the man who openly hates the west won the election...you cheered. You cheered for the devastation of the west.
I love you Canada..I love you so very much. I love you so much that I've given all that I have to give to you. I love you, but we are in an abusive relationship.
There is no pain so great as unrequited love.
A good marriage is one where each has an equal say. A good marriage is one where each respects the opinions of the other, even if they disagree. In a good marriage, each spouse not just allows for the individuality of the other, they support and encourage individuality.
Alberta has done all that we can to be a good partner to you. We have put bread on the table, paid your bills, put your kids through school, and supported your freedom to be whoever you want to be. But still, ...you don't love us back. You don't even want to treat us as casual friends. Alberta feels more than just left out, we feel despised.
Dear Canada, the time has come for us to go our separate ways. We love you...SOOOO MUCH, but we now realize that you will never love us back. For most of my life, Separation was not a possibility, but now I realize it's the only way we can survive.
Heart broken,
Alberta
(Written by Mark E. Meincke, blending his real life story with the persona of Alberta)
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on November 08, 2019, 06:28:03 AM
Post by: Anonymous on November 08, 2019, 06:28:03 AM
That's a good analogy between Alberta and the Eastern establishment.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on November 08, 2019, 07:11:44 AM
Post by: Anonymous on November 08, 2019, 07:11:44 AM
Premier Kenney says he needs political ammo to make sure Trans Mountain upgrade is built
CALGARY — You can expect everything and the kitchen sink will be put on the table.
Everything, that is, except splitting from Canada since Premier Jason Kenney says he will always be a proud Canadian.
Kenney speaks in
Red Deer Saturday.
His words are expected to be full of red-meat politics. The crowd will be hungry.
He has a game plan, organizing town halls across the province, some before Christmas. A panel will listen to what Albertans have to say in what will be the winter of our discontent.
By spring, Kenney wants a report on where Alberta should go from here.
Albertans expect action. Talk was cheap, now it's worth squat.
The premier knows full well where the wind is blowing and how hard it blows.
Kenney says there's a "compelling case" to do what Quebec did, exit the Canada Pension Plan and start an Alberta one.
Such a trial balloon went nowhere almost 20 years ago with another Liberal government hostile to Alberta.
The number crunchers say without Alberta in the CPP, other Canadians would have to pay more and Albertans would pay less in their own plan.
An exit would make the mucky-mucks in arrogant Ottawa sick to their well-fed stomachs.
You see, Albertans contribute more to CPP than Alberta retirees receive in payments.
From 2008 to 2017, what Albertans paid into CPP over and above what Alberta retirees scored in pension cash was almost $28 billion. That's nearly four times higher than Ontario, the next highest contributor.
Kind of reminds you of equalization.
Kenney admits a lot of Albertans want a referendum vote on equalization now. They want to force Trudeau to negotiate with Alberta. Kenney defends his position to hold the vote in two years.
He needs the vote to get the Trans Mountain pipeline built.
"If we blow all our ammunition right now what leverage do we have 12, 18, 24 months from now when there are New Democrats and Green party members chaining themselves to pipes and tractors in the war in the woods?
"What leverage do we have on the federal government to ensure the application of the rule of law for the completion of that pipeline?"
The premier doesn't completely write off the NDP or Bloc Quebecois trying to scuttle the project.
Then there's Trudeau, talking big in Quebec about standing up to the big oil companies. That still bugs us. What did Kenney tell him? "If you want to stand up to our energy industry then why are you prepared to take the revenues it generates and the jobs it creates?"
But he does. The premier may also push Ottawa for an equalization rebate in these tough times. We shall see.
On Thursday, Notley and Kenney scuffle on the premier's fight-back stance but the NDP leader played palsy-walsy with Trudeau. She's not in the game.
Shannon Stubbs is a Conservative MP from Alberta. Stubbs calls it as she sees it. What she sees isn't pretty.
Albertans have been kicked when they're down.
Many folks are at the end of their rope and if they don't see some light at the end of the tunnel soon they'll start looking for an exit door from what has become an abusive relationship with Ottawa.
And please, don't say Albertans are alienated.
Nobody says: You know, I feel alienated today.
As Stubbs puts it, people are furious. They don't want special treatment. They just want the prime minister and the government to stop attacking them.
They see the election as "the rest of the country vindicating the prime minister."
What's going on is not just blowing off steam.
"It's not ranting over a couple of beers or getting all carried away with your friends at the 6 a.m. coffee before you go out for another frustrating day in this disastrous harvest."
"It's a grave crisis" and "it's absolutely appalling the prime minister seems completely unaware of that and it's a direct result of him."
If Trans Mountain doesn't get done, "people will be apoplectic."
An Alberta Pension Plan might get Ottawa to pay attention. Equalization is the hot button. Others want to hold Alberta back but they want our dough at the same time. Stubbs almost spits out the words as she speaks of the "galling double-standard and hypocrisy."
Kenney says this fight is a marathon, not a sprint.
Earlier this week one of his team, Airdrie's Angela Pitt, asks a good question.
"What does this government say to those struggling to wave a Canadian flag in this beautiful province?"
The clock ticks and, unlike a marathon, the finish line is unknown.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on November 09, 2019, 10:18:03 PM
Post by: Anonymous on November 09, 2019, 10:18:03 PM
Alberta addresses separatist sentiment by studying measures that would give province more autonomy
Alberta's premier is addressing western alienation by taking a page out of Quebec's handbook and looking at ways to give the province more autonomy.
Alberta will open offices in other provinces, introduce an act to give Albertans the power to petition for referendums and create a panel to look at giving the province further independence, like pulling out of the Federal-Provincial Tax Collection Agreement or establishing a provincial police force.
Premier Jason Kenney made the sweeping announcement Saturday during a keynote address to close the Manning Conference in Red Deer, Alta., an event held by the Manning Centre, a Calgary-based right-wing think-tank.
"Albertans have been working for Ottawa for too long. It's time for Ottawa to start working for us ... they must stop taking us for granted," Kenney said.
"They need to understand they're killing the golden goose. They have both fists wrapped around the throat of that goose."
Reform Party founder Preston Manning will sit on the panel, along with Stephen Lougheed, son of late former premier Peter Lougheed, former MLA Donna Kennedy-Glans and three current MLAs, among others.
Kenney said he wants to acknowledge that some Western Canadians no longer feel at home in their own country, and suggested "Laurentian elites" have both benefited from Alberta's wealth and abandoned the province in its time of need.
"How perverse is it to blame the victim in a sense when we have been doing so much to share our wealth with the rest of the country?" he asked.
But he said separation is not the answer, even though he views Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's minority government as "a danger" to the federation.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on November 09, 2019, 10:21:19 PM
Post by: Anonymous on November 09, 2019, 10:21:19 PM
Establishing a provincial revenue agency by ending Alberta's Federal-Provincial Tax Collection Agreement.
Withdrawing from the Canada Pension Plan and establishing a provincial plan.
Ending the province's relationship with the RCMP and creating a provincial police force.
Opting out of federal cost-sharing programs.
Seeking an exchange of tax points for federal cash transfer.
Establishing a formal provincial constitution.
Appointing a Chief Firearms Office for the province.
"We must maintain leverage over the federal government over the next two years to ensure completion of the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion," Kenney said. "We must use wisdom to carefully stage each element of this fight for fairness."
Reform Party founder Preston Manning said that yearning for autonomy is one thing Quebec and the west have in common.
"Both want a more decentralized federation for somewhat different reasons. Quebec more for linguistic, cultural and social reasons, the west for economic reasons," he said.
The panel will consult with experts and hold town halls between Nov. 16 and Jan. 30, before completing a report to government by March 31, the release said. The panel's budget is set at $650,000.
If the panel finds support for those measures, Kenney said, the next move would be to hold referendums before moving forward — but that provision was not mentioned in his mandate letter to the panellists.
Alberta will also be opening offices in Ottawa, Quebec and B.C. to "defend the province's interests."
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on November 09, 2019, 10:22:19 PM
Post by: Anonymous on November 09, 2019, 10:22:19 PM
Kenney's speech shared some similarities with the famous letter that kicked off the Alberta Agenda in 2001 and called for "firewalls" to be built around the province.
That open letter, signed by future prime minister Stephen Harper among others and addressed to then-premier Ralph Klein, also called for a provincial police force and withdrawal from the Canada Pension Plan.
"Klein rejected it. He refused to move forward on it. Kenney is throwing the full weight of the government behind it. That's the difference between 2001 and today," Mount Royal University political science professor Duane Bratt said.
"The similarity is it's both in the aftermath of the Conservatives losing an election. And so you wonder, would any of this come about if there was a Conservative government? If you're pursuing an autonomous strategy, which this is within Canada, it shouldn't be dependent on who is in Ottawa."
Bratt said the speech was the most significant one Kenney has made as premier.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Gaon on November 09, 2019, 10:28:50 PM
Post by: Gaon on November 09, 2019, 10:28:50 PM
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on November 09, 2019, 10:31:53 PM
Post by: Anonymous on November 09, 2019, 10:31:53 PM
I can't believe what is happening in this country.Quote from: "Gaon"
Believe it brother. This is long overdue.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on November 10, 2019, 06:37:17 AM
Post by: Anonymous on November 10, 2019, 06:37:17 AM
Similarities to 'firewall letter'Quote from: "Herman"
Kenney's speech shared some similarities with the famous letter that kicked off the Alberta Agenda in 2001 and called for "firewalls" to be built around the province.
That open letter, signed by future prime minister Stephen Harper among others and addressed to then-premier Ralph Klein, also called for a provincial police force and withdrawal from the Canada Pension Plan.
"Klein rejected it. He refused to move forward on it. Kenney is throwing the full weight of the government behind it. That's the difference between 2001 and today," Mount Royal University political science professor Duane Bratt said.
"The similarity is it's both in the aftermath of the Conservatives losing an election. And so you wonder, would any of this come about if there was a Conservative government? If you're pursuing an autonomous strategy, which this is within Canada, it shouldn't be dependent on who is in Ottawa."
Bratt said the speech was the most significant one Kenney has made as premier.
Albertans contribute more to CPP per capita than any other province. If Alberta withdraws from CPP to start their own pension plan(it would be superior to CPP), they federal program would become insolvent.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on November 10, 2019, 07:07:36 AM
Post by: Anonymous on November 10, 2019, 07:07:36 AM
Similarities to 'firewall letter'Quote from: "Herman"
Kenney's speech shared some similarities with the famous letter that kicked off the Alberta Agenda in 2001 and called for "firewalls" to be built around the province.
That open letter, signed by future prime minister Stephen Harper among others and addressed to then-premier Ralph Klein, also called for a provincial police force and withdrawal from the Canada Pension Plan.
"Klein rejected it. He refused to move forward on it. Kenney is throwing the full weight of the government behind it. That's the difference between 2001 and today," Mount Royal University political science professor Duane Bratt said.
"The similarity is it's both in the aftermath of the Conservatives losing an election. And so you wonder, would any of this come about if there was a Conservative government? If you're pursuing an autonomous strategy, which this is within Canada, it shouldn't be dependent on who is in Ottawa."
Bratt said the speech was the most significant one Kenney has made as premier.
Albertans contribute more to CPP per capita than any other province. If Alberta withdraws from CPP to start their own pension plan(it would be superior to CPP), they federal program would become insolvent.
That is Ottawa's problem, not the West's. They cannot expect the prairie provinces to put up with theft and abuse indefinitely.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on November 10, 2019, 09:48:20 AM
Post by: Anonymous on November 10, 2019, 09:48:20 AM
Similarities to 'firewall letter'Quote from: "Herman"
Kenney's speech shared some similarities with the famous letter that kicked off the Alberta Agenda in 2001 and called for "firewalls" to be built around the province.
That open letter, signed by future prime minister Stephen Harper among others and addressed to then-premier Ralph Klein, also called for a provincial police force and withdrawal from the Canada Pension Plan.
"Klein rejected it. He refused to move forward on it. Kenney is throwing the full weight of the government behind it. That's the difference between 2001 and today," Mount Royal University political science professor Duane Bratt said.
"The similarity is it's both in the aftermath of the Conservatives losing an election. And so you wonder, would any of this come about if there was a Conservative government? If you're pursuing an autonomous strategy, which this is within Canada, it shouldn't be dependent on who is in Ottawa."
Bratt said the speech was the most significant one Kenney has made as premier.
wow
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Thiel on November 10, 2019, 10:51:24 AM
Post by: Thiel on November 10, 2019, 10:51:24 AM
I can't believe what is happening in this country.Quote from: "Gaon"
It is overdue my friend.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on November 11, 2019, 01:26:06 AM
Post by: Anonymous on November 11, 2019, 01:26:06 AM
Equalization isn't the only financial arrangement in this country that is stacked against Alberta, the Canada Pension Plan is, too.
If Alberta withdrew from the CPP, not only could Alberta pay their own retirees more for lower contributions, the rest of the country would finally get a practical lesson in why it needs Alberta around — and why it should find a fairer deal to keep that province in Confederation. This week, Premier Jason Kenney said there is a "compelling case" for Alberta to at least look at going it alone on pensions, the way Quebec has done for five decades.
He intends to put the question of a separate APP in front of the panel of distinguished Albertans he will soon appoint to offer recommendations on how Alberta should deal with the seemingly disinterested Trudeau government in Ottawa.
It is well known in that province that
Of course, a country isn't just a ledger sheet or a zero-sum calculation. They don't have to receive back as much as thet put in. But neither should the provinces who benefit most from their generous contributions smugly deny their ability to develop their biggest industries and maintain their way of life.
Of course we're talking about Quebec. Quebec is the primary beneficiary of Alberta's largesse. Despite the fact that it now has per capita wealth very close to the national average, the federal Liberals have increased Quebec's equalization every year because it benefits them politically to do so. And even though the bulk of Quebec's $13 billion or $14 billion grant each year comes from Alberta, no other province has been as hostile to Alberta pipelines or as moralistic about the environmental consequences of developing the oilsands. (OK, B.C. has been nearly as bad, but at least it isn't as heavily dependent on our money.) The CPP is nearly as bad a deal for Alberta as equalization, though. Last year,
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on November 11, 2019, 12:26:55 PM
Post by: Anonymous on November 11, 2019, 12:26:55 PM
Use pension plan as warning
Equalization isn't the only financial arrangement in this country that is stacked against Alberta, the Canada Pension Plan is, too.
If Alberta withdrew from the CPP, not only could Alberta pay their own retirees more for lower contributions, the rest of the country would finally get a practical lesson in why it needs Alberta around — and why it should find a fairer deal to keep that province in Confederation. This week, Premier Jason Kenney said there is a "compelling case" for Alberta to at least look at going it alone on pensions, the way Quebec has done for five decades.
He intends to put the question of a separate APP in front of the panel of distinguished Albertans he will soon appoint to offer recommendations on how Alberta should deal with the seemingly disinterested Trudeau government in Ottawa.
It is well known in that province that[size=150]Albertans contribute upwards of $20 billion more a year to Confederation than they receive back in benefits.[/size]
Of course, a country isn't just a ledger sheet or a zero-sum calculation. They don't have to receive back as much as thet put in. But neither should the provinces who benefit most from their generous contributions smugly deny their ability to develop their biggest industries and maintain their way of life.
Of course we're talking about Quebec. Quebec is the primary beneficiary of Alberta's largesse. Despite the fact that it now has per capita wealth very close to the national average, the federal Liberals have increased Quebec's equalization every year because it benefits them politically to do so. And even though the bulk of Quebec's $13 billion or $14 billion grant each year comes from Alberta, no other province has been as hostile to Alberta pipelines or as moralistic about the environmental consequences of developing the oilsands. (OK, B.C. has been nearly as bad, but at least it isn't as heavily dependent on our money.) The CPP is nearly as bad a deal for Alberta as equalization, though. Last year,. Worse yet, their seniors received just 10.6 per cent of the payments made. That's a gap of 56 per cent. According to Vancouver's Fraser Institute, over the past decade [size=150]Albertans contributed 16.5 per cent of all premiums collected by the CPP. However, Alberta is just 11.6 per cent of the national population[/size] Unlike equalization, this gap isn't the result of some political manipulation designed to keep Liberal-voting regions of the country happy. It's because was have the youngest population in the country and the highest incomes. We simply have more people making solid livings than we have older citizens receiving payments. Still, the gap is what gives us leverage. If we took our premiums and set up our own public pension, Ottawa would either have to raise CPP contributions substantially or lower benefits significantly in the rest of Canada. Maybe that's the kind of warning shot we should fire across Ottawa's bow to startle them out of their complacency — even hostility — towards Alberta. [size=150]Albertans have chipped in $27 billion more than they have taken out of CPP.[/size]
This will grab Justine by his pussy.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on November 11, 2019, 02:05:27 PM
Post by: Anonymous on November 11, 2019, 02:05:27 PM
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on November 12, 2019, 12:29:48 PM
Post by: Anonymous on November 12, 2019, 12:29:48 PM
How would a provincial pension plan affect people's pensions who've paid into CPP their entire working lives?Quote from: "Velvet"
Former Alberta NDP premier Rachel Notley accused Jason Kenney of putting Albertans pensions at risk. This means the NDP leader has more faith in Ottawa politicians and bureaucrats to manage our retirement savings. How naïve.)
Last year, Albertans contributed 16.5 per cent of all premiums collected by the CPP. However, our seniors received just 10.6 per cent of the benefits.
Naturally, some questions arise whenever anyone floats the possibility of transferring billions of public dollars from one fund manager to another.Quebec has never been part of CPP, so there's no precedent for what has been proposed by Kenney.
My best guess is that Alberta funds in CPP would be transferred to a provincial crown corporation that also manages their Heritage Fund. I would imagine the transfer of benefits would be gradual with current Alberta recipients continuing in CPP.
As for benefits, Alberta's pension plan would be superior for pensioners than CPP.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on November 12, 2019, 08:19:14 PM
Post by: Anonymous on November 12, 2019, 08:19:14 PM
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on November 12, 2019, 08:44:10 PM
Post by: Anonymous on November 12, 2019, 08:44:10 PM
In 2017, 16.5 per cent of all CPP contributions came from Alberta workers, while just 10.6 per cent of CPP expenditures made their way back to the province. The difference between what was paid in and paid out was $2.9 billion in 2017, the most recent year for which data are available. (Alberta paid in $8.1 billion and received $5.2 billion.) Between 2008 and 2017, Albertans have contributed $27.9 billion more to CPP than retirees in the province have received back.
Were Alberta to drop out of the CPP, other provinces would have to pick up the slack by raising individual contribution rates. Were the province to withdraw, Albertans could pay as low as 5.85 per cent into an Alberta pension plan, while the rest of the country would need to up their contributions from 9.9 per cent (the 2017 contribution rate) to 10.6 per cent, the study says. The federal government already raised the contribution rate (shared equally by employers and employees) to 10.2 per cent in January, and plan to increase it to 11.9 per cent by 2023.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on November 13, 2019, 11:17:58 AM
Post by: Anonymous on November 13, 2019, 11:17:58 AM
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on November 13, 2019, 08:27:14 PM
Post by: Anonymous on November 13, 2019, 08:27:14 PM
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on November 14, 2019, 09:08:07 AM
Post by: Anonymous on November 14, 2019, 09:08:07 AM
The premier of Alberta stated that any major change recommendations that come from the Fair Deal panel must be ratified by a majority of the people in that province.Quote from: "seoulbro"
I imagine that would be in 2021 combined with a referendum on equalization.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on November 17, 2019, 05:21:59 PM
Post by: Anonymous on November 17, 2019, 05:21:59 PM
A political analyst at the University of Saskatchewan is predicting a Wexit candidate will succeed in a byelection, if one gets called in Saskatchewan or Alberta.
"If there's a byelection in Alberta or Saskatchewan, there'll be a Wexit candidate. My prediction is, and I'll put money on it, is that Wexit candidate wins," Greg Poelzer said.
"The sentiment is that strong."
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on November 17, 2019, 07:40:53 PM
Post by: Anonymous on November 17, 2019, 07:40:53 PM
'I'll put money on it': Political analyst predicts Wexit candidate wins a byelectionQuote from: "Herman"https://saskatoon.ctvnews.ca/mobile/i-ll-put-money-on-it-political-analyst-predicts-wexit-candidate-wins-a-byelection-1.4671871?fbclid=IwAR3yGpQvrQhJ5mVCVQBsoORvCT8cPFILvtBsLJpdrKfyA2HXJ7pIAG24Dq0
A political analyst at the University of Saskatchewan is predicting a Wexit candidate will succeed in a byelection, if one gets called in Saskatchewan or Alberta.
"If there's a byelection in Alberta or Saskatchewan, there'll be a Wexit candidate. My prediction is, and I'll put money on it, is that Wexit candidate wins," Greg Poelzer said.
"The sentiment is that strong."
That would be something.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on November 17, 2019, 08:25:29 PM
Post by: Anonymous on November 17, 2019, 08:25:29 PM
By withdrawing from CPP, Albertans would see "a substantial benefit" as their costs to contribute to a provincial plan would drop, states the report, obtained by Postmedia.
The 19-page analysis was completed in September and calculates a sustainable pension contribution rate would fall to 7.21 per cent (and possibly lower) from current CPP base plan levels of 9.9 per cent, if an Alberta plan was established.
"An Alberta pension plan would lower contributions ... relative to current CPP contributions for an equivalent set of benefits," the report states.
Kenney said about $40 billion of Alberta premiums could be repatriated, while AIMCo, a provincial Crown corporation, would administer a provincial pension fund.
Alberta clearly has the population best suited to sustaining a pay-as-you-go pension plan with its high working-age population and relatively low retired population share," it states.
Depending on how much would be transferred into the Alberta pension plan from CPP, a larger amount ($54.5 billion) would mean Alberta's sustained contribution rate could be as low as 6.85 per cent, according to the study.
"This is ... a substantial benefit for Albertans, reducing the effective level of taxation within Alberta and increasing Alberta's tax advantage," the report states.
If Alberta withdrew from the Canadian plan, contribution rates in the rest of the country would need to rise to 10.41 per cent, according to the report.
An APP could be the envy of the nation.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on November 17, 2019, 11:28:47 PM
Post by: Anonymous on November 17, 2019, 11:28:47 PM
Alberta could create its own EI system to cover high-wage earners in volatile industries, report says
Maximum payouts for laid-off workers are based on national averages but Albertans earn 20% more
High-wage workers are under-covered by Canada's employment insurance system and should have a voluntary top-up option, according to a new research paper from the University of Calgary's School of Public Policy.
And, if the federal government won't do it, provinces like Alberta should consider creating their own parallel EI system, say the paper's authors.
That's because Albertans make significantly more money than people in the rest of the country but, when they lose their jobs, their maximum EI benefits are based on national income levels,
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on November 18, 2019, 09:32:23 PM
Post by: Anonymous on November 18, 2019, 09:32:23 PM
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on November 19, 2019, 09:13:02 PM
Post by: Anonymous on November 19, 2019, 09:13:02 PM
NEWSHarper Cabinet Minister calls on Premiers Kenney & Moe to hold immediate independence votes
Former Stephen Harper Government House Leader and long-time Reform/Conservative Party MP Jay Hill has come out swinging for an immediate move towards Western independence.
CALGARY, AB: Former Stephen Harper Government House Leader and long-time Reform/Conservative Party MP Jay Hill has come out swinging for an immediate move towards Western independence.
Hill called on Alberta Premier Jason Kenney and Saskatchewan Premier Scott Moe to immediately table legislation in their respective provinces for debate, leading to a referendum on independence from Ottawa.
"Premiers Kenney and Moe should have been prepared to table legislation to trigger an independence referendum in the worst case that Trudeau was re-elected," said Hill. "They should have already debated this in their caucuses beforehand, and be debating this in the legislature right now."
Hill said he strongly backs Kenney and Moe and how they have governed, and believes that they will come around to support independence in short order.
"I believe that the Saskatchewan Party and UCP will respond if there is sufficient pressure from their constituents."
While Hill supports the two allied premiers, he said that if they refuse to come around to independence that he may turn his support to a newer party to carry the flag, but that he believes it will not be necessary.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on November 19, 2019, 09:21:19 PM
Post by: Anonymous on November 19, 2019, 09:21:19 PM
Jack Mintz: Alberta has better reasons to Albexit than Britain did for Brexit
Whatever negatives Alberta would face are easily swamped by the positives that would come with separation
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on November 19, 2019, 11:46:05 PM
Post by: Anonymous on November 19, 2019, 11:46:05 PM
If anyone gets a chance, read what one of the country's most respected tax accountants has to say about Wexit.Quote from: "Herman"https://business.financialpost.com/opinion/jack-mintz-alberta-has-better-reasons-to-albexit-than-britain-did-for-brexit?fbclid=IwAR3Juql_ShbV8GNibPJ-yWoEn6w1Ng7uWB4HxefVcGWsMPZkxIDQqseAHWg
Jack Mintz: Alberta has better reasons to Albexit than Britain did for Brexit
Whatever negatives Alberta would face are easily swamped by the positives that would come with separation
Jack Mintz is on board.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on November 20, 2019, 09:40:04 PM
Post by: Anonymous on November 20, 2019, 09:40:04 PM
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on November 20, 2019, 09:48:32 PM
Post by: Anonymous on November 20, 2019, 09:48:32 PM
Aint that special. Quebec loves the West(gone).Quote from: "Herman"(//%3C/s%3E%3CURL%20url=%22https://scontent.fyyc2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/78069794_152344869467304_3859292642491760640_n.png?_nc_cat=106&_nc_ohc=gnc_hqsOMO8AQmBV5i92pH2Ph6CylSA5pPMOhoGqLaOvBzdPflTjt_8XA&_nc_ht=scontent.fyyc2-1.fna&oh=fa56e58a858f276286a1fb0a3e1eb188&oe=5E483254%22%3E%3CLINK_TEXT%20text=%22https://scontent.fyyc2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/%20...%20e=5E483254%22%3Ehttps://scontent.fyyc2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/78069794_152344869467304_3859292642491760640_n.png?_nc_cat=106&_nc_ohc=gnc_hqsOMO8AQmBV5i92pH2Ph6CylSA5pPMOhoGqLaOvBzdPflTjt_8XA&_nc_ht=scontent.fyyc2-1.fna&oh=fa56e58a858f276286a1fb0a3e1eb188&oe=5E483254%3C/LINK_TEXT%3E%3C/URL%3E%3Ce%3E)
Quebec wants us gone..
Do they know that means an end to equalization transfers to that province.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on November 20, 2019, 10:11:02 PM
Post by: Anonymous on November 20, 2019, 10:11:02 PM
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on November 20, 2019, 10:54:09 PM
Post by: Anonymous on November 20, 2019, 10:54:09 PM
Bring on an AB/SK pension plan.Quote from: "Herman"(//%3C/s%3E%3CURL%20url=%22https://scontent.fyyc2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/78266591_946517765721953_2569318344922497024_o.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_ohc=UP_RhVYbw_0AQmnvI3JXMMgUh1bWwm4dYnmgzbb1u8Ues2lQhhoffbNug&_nc_ht=scontent.fyyc2-1.fna&oh=d6e0b09906ac7f18227bf847d5ff63b1&oe=5E84DE40%22%3E%3CLINK_TEXT%20text=%22https://scontent.fyyc2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/%20...%20e=5E84DE40%22%3Ehttps://scontent.fyyc2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/78266591_946517765721953_2569318344922497024_o.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_ohc=UP_RhVYbw_0AQmnvI3JXMMgUh1bWwm4dYnmgzbb1u8Ues2lQhhoffbNug&_nc_ht=scontent.fyyc2-1.fna&oh=d6e0b09906ac7f18227bf847d5ff63b1&oe=5E84DE40%3C/LINK_TEXT%3E%3C/URL%3E%3Ce%3E)
This is a powerful bargaining chip for Alberta.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on December 02, 2019, 07:53:09 PM
Post by: Anonymous on December 02, 2019, 07:53:09 PM
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on December 03, 2019, 07:28:11 PM
Post by: Anonymous on December 03, 2019, 07:28:11 PM
The west will leave. And so will investment capital from Ontario. Deal with it.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on December 03, 2019, 09:07:31 PM
Post by: Anonymous on December 03, 2019, 09:07:31 PM
Jack Mintz: The Fair Deal panel should have one focus — improving Alberta's economy
Some of the proposals aren't focused on what Alberta needs most to thrive
Premier Jason Kenney has appointed the Fair Deal panel to hear Albertans' ideas on its role in Confederation. A host of measures shall be considered including a separate personal income tax, Alberta Pension Plan, an Alberta police force, larger role in international relations, and formalized provincial constitution, among others.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on December 04, 2019, 08:23:05 PM
Post by: Anonymous on December 04, 2019, 08:23:05 PM
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on December 05, 2019, 06:55:51 PM
Post by: Anonymous on December 05, 2019, 06:55:51 PM
Sask. premier wants province to have Quebec-style immigration system
"In many cases, like climate policy, the provinces are most connected with the needs of the industries that are operating in our communities across the province."
Moe went on to say that he's looking at Quebec as a model province, controlling their own immigration and tax systems.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on December 05, 2019, 07:24:03 PM
Post by: Anonymous on December 05, 2019, 07:24:03 PM
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on December 05, 2019, 07:44:02 PM
Post by: Anonymous on December 05, 2019, 07:44:02 PM
Here's how the Liberals sabotaged Alberta's historic rights
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on December 08, 2019, 07:39:02 PM
Post by: Anonymous on December 08, 2019, 07:39:02 PM
Canadians more concerned about Wexit than Quebec separatism: Nanos survey
Half of those surveyed said they were concerned (20 per cent) or somewhat concerned (30 per cent) that the so-called Wexit movement could grow. Around a third, or 31 per cent, were not concerned, and around 15 per cent were "somewhat not concerned."
When asked about Quebec, which narrowly avoided separation in 1995, 14 per cent of respondents said they were concerned that separatist sentiment will become stronger in the French-speaking province. Twenty-three per cent were somewhat concerned.
A whopping 60 per cent were not concerned or somewhat not concerned about Quebec separatism.
Unfortunately for the Liberals, the latest poll also suggests that a majority of Canadians are not confident that that the Trudeau government will be able to manage western alienation.
Of those respondents in the Prairies, a resounding 64 per cent said they were not confident that the new government can manage divisions over Wexit. Another 15 per cent were somewhat not confident.
Nationally, just under six in ten Canadians said they were not confident (19 per cent) or somewhat not confident (38 per cent) that Trudeau will be able to address the situation.
Only around 10 per cent were confident that Trudeau's government can handle the issue.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on December 08, 2019, 10:45:58 PM
Post by: Anonymous on December 08, 2019, 10:45:58 PM
Canadians know this is all Trudeau's fault.Quote from: "Herman"https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/canadians-more-concerned-about-wexit-than-quebec-separatism-nanos-survey-1.4720327?fbclid=IwAR1o7iMFmOON7pqFV1GKm8OlIUDL1qJKe63YEUpWNGnZc4-xHOMLnLwq7hI
Canadians more concerned about Wexit than Quebec separatism: Nanos survey
Half of those surveyed said they were concerned (20 per cent) or somewhat concerned (30 per cent) that the so-called Wexit movement could grow. Around a third, or 31 per cent, were not concerned, and around 15 per cent were "somewhat not concerned."
When asked about Quebec, which narrowly avoided separation in 1995, 14 per cent of respondents said they were concerned that separatist sentiment will become stronger in the French-speaking province. Twenty-three per cent were somewhat concerned.
A whopping 60 per cent were not concerned or somewhat not concerned about Quebec separatism.
Unfortunately for the Liberals, the latest poll also suggests that a majority of Canadians are not confident that that the Trudeau government will be able to manage western alienation.
Of those respondents in the Prairies, a resounding 64 per cent said they were not confident that the new government can manage divisions over Wexit. Another 15 per cent were somewhat not confident.
Nationally, just under six in ten Canadians said they were not confident (19 per cent) or somewhat not confident (38 per cent) that Trudeau will be able to address the situation.
Only around 10 per cent were confident that Trudeau's government can handle the issue.
Of course it's this federal government's fault.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on December 09, 2019, 04:48:32 AM
Post by: Anonymous on December 09, 2019, 04:48:32 AM
Canadians know this is all Trudeau's fault.Quote from: "Herman"https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/canadians-more-concerned-about-wexit-than-quebec-separatism-nanos-survey-1.4720327?fbclid=IwAR1o7iMFmOON7pqFV1GKm8OlIUDL1qJKe63YEUpWNGnZc4-xHOMLnLwq7hI
Canadians more concerned about Wexit than Quebec separatism: Nanos survey
Half of those surveyed said they were concerned (20 per cent) or somewhat concerned (30 per cent) that the so-called Wexit movement could grow. Around a third, or 31 per cent, were not concerned, and around 15 per cent were "somewhat not concerned."
When asked about Quebec, which narrowly avoided separation in 1995, 14 per cent of respondents said they were concerned that separatist sentiment will become stronger in the French-speaking province. Twenty-three per cent were somewhat concerned.
A whopping 60 per cent were not concerned or somewhat not concerned about Quebec separatism.
Unfortunately for the Liberals, the latest poll also suggests that a majority of Canadians are not confident that that the Trudeau government will be able to manage western alienation.
Of those respondents in the Prairies, a resounding 64 per cent said they were not confident that the new government can manage divisions over Wexit. Another 15 per cent were somewhat not confident.
Nationally, just under six in ten Canadians said they were not confident (19 per cent) or somewhat not confident (38 per cent) that Trudeau will be able to address the situation.
Only around 10 per cent were confident that Trudeau's government can handle the issue.
Of course it's this federal government's fault.
Are you now a Wexiteer or do you like Jason Kenny and Scott Moe's idea of autonomy?
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on December 12, 2019, 11:46:55 AM
Post by: Anonymous on December 12, 2019, 11:46:55 AM
Federal Liberals incapable of seeing what's best for the West
The results of the October election revealed the depths of Alberta's and Saskatchewan's frustration with the Trudeau government. Since then, the residents of those two provinces have been reassured that Ottawa is now listening. After all, the new federal Environment Minister Jonathan Wilkinson is originally from
Saskatoon and Deputy Prime Minister Chrystia Freeland was born in Peace River.
So? Before now, neither Wilkinson (who is an MP from North Vancouver) nor Freeland (who lived in New York before returning to represent downtown Toronto) had displayed much interest in their roots. Now the Liberals reassure us Freeland is a proud daughter of the Peace Country soil.
There are several good examples of the Liberals' genetic incompatibility with the Prairie West from just this week.
First, the CBC carried a story with the headline, "Unemployment rate among young men in Alberta nears 20 per cent, a level not seen since the early 1980s."
It is no coincidence — no coincidence at all — that the early 1980s was also the last time a Quebec Liberal named Trudeau was prime minister. Liberals in general and Trudeaus in particular cannot help meddling in the energy sector and, in the process, driving our province's economy into the ground.
A second example came in an announcement this week from Environment Minister Wilkinson. (Remember, he was born in Saskatoon, so the
West can count on him!) The Liberals
might not allow liquefied natural gas (LNG) exports to be counted even after provinces' efforts to control greenhouse emissions.
Before October's election, the federal Liberals had promised provinces would receive credit for their LNG exports. Generating electricity by burning natural gas produces far fewer emissions than generation from coal. If Alberta and B.C. can export a lot of LNG to countries that currently burn coal, that would reduce worldwide emissions. When they were campaigning for office, the Liberals agreed this was a good idea. Now, Wilkinson is saying the Trudeau cabinet have not made up their minds. If the cabinet turns down this idea it will cost businesses in Alberta and B.C. billions in added carbon taxes. And that added cost will drive away even more investment, cost even more jobs and extend the Alberta recession. On Wednesday, Wilkinson approved a scheme to let New Brunswick adopt a provincial carbon tax instead of accepting the federal version. But N.B. also will be permitted to lower its provincial gas tax so consumers see little difference in the pump price.
This is the same deal Ottawa has with P.E.I. and Newfoundland and Labrador. But it defeats the purpose of a carbon tax, which is intended to lower fossil fuel use by making carbon-based fuels more expensive.
Ottawa is happy, it seems, to make such trade-offs with Liberal-voting regions such as Atlantic Canada but not with Alberta.
Wilkinson is also currently at the UN'S big, annual climate conference in Madrid. There Canada is the only major energy-producing country still deeply committed to "net zero" emissions by 2050.
That, however, is a goal that can only be achieved by phasing out oil and gas. In other words, the Liberals cannot please international environmentalists and the Kenney government at the same time.
Who do you think they'll choose?
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on December 12, 2019, 03:06:15 PM
Post by: Anonymous on December 12, 2019, 03:06:15 PM
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on December 12, 2019, 04:33:44 PM
Post by: Anonymous on December 12, 2019, 04:33:44 PM
I can't wait until there is a federal by-election in Alberta or Saskatchewan. Wexit will be on the ballot.Quote from: "Herman"
We are at the point now, where Trudeau does not care if Saskatchewan and Alberta pull the pin. The Liberals will be the permanent governing party of the rest of Canada.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on December 13, 2019, 10:47:33 PM
Post by: Anonymous on December 13, 2019, 10:47:33 PM
Request for congress to grant and allow Saskatchewan and Alberta to be granted statehood into the Union
The residents of Saskatchewan and Alberta (Canada) are requesting Statehood as 51st and 52nd States into the Union. Reasons:
1) Our extensive mutual values
2) SK & AB have vast wealth in natural resources (various commodities) with great economic to benefit the USA and will give more with access to world markets
3) Greater flow of goods (finished or raw), ie transportation, tariffs/taxes would not be applicable
4) No currency exchange = greater flow of goods (purchasing, selling, transportation)
5) Ability to be self sufficient in most aspects of the economy
6) Less foreign import of goods/services
SK and AB hereby request Congress to grant Statehood as 51st and 52nd States In The Union as per The New States Clause, found at Article IV, Section 3, Clause 1 of the US Constitution.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on December 13, 2019, 11:25:43 PM
Post by: Anonymous on December 13, 2019, 11:25:43 PM
Greta Thunberg Is TIME's Person Of The Year. Here's Why
In 1938, TIME magazine's Man of the year was Adolf Hitler. They also awarded it to Stalin. Twice. Who didn't win? The Hong Kong protesters, whom TIME readers chose over teen climate scold Greta Thunberg by a wide margin.
An unedited photo of the Hitler cover is here:
This is not to compare her to Hitler. She is a pawn and puppet. However, the forces behind Thunberg merit such a comparison. Massive and dark financial funds, with totalitarian political objectives. They have funded the man-made global warming fraud for over 25 years.
A second related photograph shows how fake this "natural" experience and environmentalism is:
All those people (four of them) are exhaling CO2. The reflectors used in the photoshoot are made of unrecyclable plastics and metals.
The cameras contain lithium batteries and most of their components are also made from fossil fuels. The vehicles used to transport all the equipment and crew use gas-powered vehicles.
Man-made climate change could not survive without the near-unanimous lies of the Democrat Media Complex. By selecting Greta, liberals are trying to ease their own guilt for living extravagant lifestyles.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Thiel on December 14, 2019, 03:05:21 PM
Post by: Thiel on December 14, 2019, 03:05:21 PM
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on December 15, 2019, 02:17:46 PM
Post by: Anonymous on December 15, 2019, 02:17:46 PM
Herman did you post this while on barrel wash?Quote from: "Thiel"
I think we all know the answer to that.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on December 19, 2019, 10:30:59 PM
Post by: Anonymous on December 19, 2019, 10:30:59 PM
We must end the use of Fossil Fuels in Canada......is all we hear.
Is China special.........somehow!
"In their end-of-meeting statement, G7 leaders, including Stephen Harper of Canada, called for an end to fossil-fuel use by the global economy by 2100 as well as cuts to greenhouse-gas emissions by 2050 that lower them as much as 70 per cent from 2010 levels."
CNOOC bid $300 million for two offshore exploration licenses.
Four other oil and gas companies are currently undergoing the federal environmental assessment process which took CNOOC three years to wade through, but Coady said a regional assessment process should be online mid-way through 2020.
"The federal government has approved the proposal of a new offshore exploration drilling project set to begin in the Flemish Pass Basin — about 400 kilometres east of Newfoundland and Labrador."
"The decision was made following a thorough and science-based environmental assessment process concluding that the project is not likely to cause significant adverse environmental effects when mitigation measures are taken into account," the government of Canada said in a news release.
Federal Minister of Environment and Climate Change Jonathan Wilkinson established 101 legally-binding conditions that the proponent, the China National Offshore Oil Corporation, must follow for the entirety of the project.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on December 19, 2019, 10:44:53 PM
Post by: Anonymous on December 19, 2019, 10:44:53 PM
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on December 19, 2019, 11:16:55 PM
Post by: Anonymous on December 19, 2019, 11:16:55 PM
If Eastern Canadians want to understand why WEXIT exists, here is just one example.Quote from: "Herman"https://canadiantruths.wordpress.com/2019/12/18/china-national-offshore-oil-corporation-gets-green-light-from-government-of-canada-to-to-explore-for-oil/?fbclid=IwAR1Ylfsxy88qDKmFn5pDuU4QqH7bvtFpKA2ORYAghHvhWsYy20rYP1qamSQ
We must end the use of Fossil Fuels in Canada......is all we hear.
Is China special.........somehow!
"In their end-of-meeting statement, G7 leaders, including Stephen Harper of Canada, called for an end to fossil-fuel use by the global economy by 2100 as well as cuts to greenhouse-gas emissions by 2050 that lower them as much as 70 per cent from 2010 levels."
CNOOC bid $300 million for two offshore exploration licenses.
Four other oil and gas companies are currently undergoing the federal environmental assessment process which took CNOOC three years to wade through, but Coady said a regional assessment process should be online mid-way through 2020.
"The federal government has approved the proposal of a new offshore exploration drilling project set to begin in the Flemish Pass Basin — about 400 kilometres east of Newfoundland and Labrador."
"The decision was made following a thorough and science-based environmental assessment process concluding that the project is not likely to cause significant adverse environmental effects when mitigation measures are taken into account," the government of Canada said in a news release.
Federal Minister of Environment and Climate Change Jonathan Wilkinson established 101 legally-binding conditions that the proponent, the China National Offshore Oil Corporation, must follow for the entirety of the project.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on December 20, 2019, 11:08:22 PM
Post by: Anonymous on December 20, 2019, 11:08:22 PM
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on December 23, 2019, 01:02:14 PM
Post by: Anonymous on December 23, 2019, 01:02:14 PM
Experts say advocates for an independent Alberta should be careful what they wish for
Recent secessionist movements in the world offer few encouraging examples to western Canadians miffed at the federal government and think they'd be better off living in a separate country.
"Wexit" — an apparent play on the nickname for the U.K.'S exit from the E.U. — was in few Canadians' lexicons before October when Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's Liberals were re-elected, but reduced to a minority and shut out of Alberta and Saskatchewan.
Paul Hamilton, a political scientist at Brock University in St. Catharines, Ont., says separatist movements are usually born out of historic ethnic conflicts.
"And then there is another category of secessions, which are often the hobby horse of a couple of people with an internet connection," he says.
"Or it's done as a protest. Or it's done as, frankly, a joke."
Western Canadian grievances largely centre on a perceived federal animus toward the oil and gas sector and a belief that the region is making an outsized contribution to Confederation.
The "Wexit" movement aims to form its own political party, elect MPS and push for a referendum on separation. It has branches in Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba and B.C.
Its platform says it intends to declare independence from Canada, secede from the British Commonwealth, elect a president as head of state and align with the U.S. It also wants to establish its own defence force, police and currency. Costs and logistics are not detailed.
"Secessionists can always be counted on to make it sound easy. But that's when you know they're not serious, because it's incredibly complicated," says Hamilton.
Texas, which was its own country for nine years in the 1800s, has long flirted with separation from the U.S.
The Texas National Movement, established in 2005, wants an "independent, self-governing nation-state free from the control of the bureaucrats and political class in Washington." It's pushing for a referendum on "Texit."
A recent article in The Atlantic magazine points out an independent Texas would be on the hook for its share of the $22-trillion national debt and an "enormous transition cost."
And just because a population votes for secession, doesn't mean it will happen.
Secessionist sentiment in Western Australia has bubbled up periodically over the years. None of its iterations has gone as far as a 1933 referendum in which the state voted to split, but Britain refused to let it happen.
The Spanish region of Catalonia voted for secession in a 2017 referendum that the central government deemed illegal. Criminal cases were brought against several Catalan separatist leaders, spurring recent mass protests.
Errol Mendes, a University of Ottawa law professor who has studied separatist movements, says "Wexit" types should realize there is no automatic right to unilateral independence under Canadian or international law.
"The major teacher in all of this to some extent, whether willingly or unwillingly, is our own Supreme Court of Canada," he said.
The top court decided in the 1998 Quebec secession reference case that the province can't split from Canada unilaterally, but could negotiate terms of separation if there was a clear referendum result based on a clear question.
"The duty to negotiate in good faith with the rest of Canada would be huge and potentially insurmountable," says Mendes.
Splits can be amicable, such as the "velvet divorce" that led to Czechoslovakia's dissolution into the Czech Republic and Slovakia in the 1990s.
"Would it happen with Alberta? I don't think there's a chance of that," says Mendes.
The possibility of internal divisions in a newly independent state is also a huge issue.
Indigenous people voted overwhelmingly against Quebec separation. First Nations treaties are signed with the Crown, so a western split would be a "recipe for chaos," Mendes says.
Even though Quebec didn't separate, it has more control over immigration, pensions and other matters than other provinces.
"Quebec is the best example of a would-be state that has achieved the greatest degree of autonomy within a federal system," says Hamilton.
Alberta Premier Jason Kenney has rejected secession and formed a "fair deal" panel to look at ways to reduce Ottawa's influence. Hamilton says: "Political elites are saying, 'This isn't going to happen, but we'll use it to extract benefits from the central government."'
Secessionists can always be counted on to make it sound easy. But that's when you know they're not serious, because it's incredibly complicated." Paul Hamilton, brock University political scientist
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on December 31, 2019, 12:45:57 PM
Post by: Anonymous on December 31, 2019, 12:45:57 PM
But Alberta's economy will never boom again so long as Justin Trudeau and his government are willing to block pipelines, ban tanker shipments of Alberta oil, make megaproject approvals all but impossible and just generally scare away investors.
The rise of separatism in Alberta was caused by recognition that the results of Alberta's provincial election changed comparatively little.
Albertans voted for change, for a return to sensible tax rates, oilsands expansion, less debt and private-sector job creation. But that by itself has not changed things much because Ottawa has the final say over whether Alberta's economy grows or not.
And the most discouraging lesson of all: There is almost no hope of meaningful change so long as Trudeau's Liberals are in charge.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on January 02, 2020, 04:20:09 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 02, 2020, 04:20:09 PM
The Kenney government has cut taxes, reduced red tape and genuinely appealed for more international investment. And that has helped. Alberta's economy is improving.Quote from: "seoulbro"
But Alberta's economy will never boom again so long as Justin Trudeau and his government are willing to block pipelines, ban tanker shipments of Alberta oil, make megaproject approvals all but impossible and just generally scare away investors.
The rise of separatism in Alberta was caused by recognition that the results of Alberta's provincial election changed comparatively little.
Albertans voted for change, for a return to sensible tax rates, oilsands expansion, less debt and private-sector job creation. But that by itself has not changed things much because Ottawa has the final say over whether Alberta's economy grows or not.
And the most discouraging lesson of all: There is almost no hope of meaningful change so long as Trudeau's Liberals are in charge.
We are in the same boat in Saskatchewan. We will never reach our potential as long as Justine is pm.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on January 04, 2020, 10:42:21 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 04, 2020, 10:42:21 PM
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on January 14, 2020, 11:52:24 AM
Post by: Anonymous on January 14, 2020, 11:52:24 AM
By Lorne Gunter of Sun News Media
Supporters of independence must build a case for separation to convince the fence-sitters
Defeated Liberal cabinet Minister Ralph Goodale thinks western independence is a bad idea.
Of course he would. He's a federal Liberal.
When asked by the CBC over the weekend for his reaction to the news that Elections Canada had granted Wexit Canada the right to run candidates in the next federal election, Goodale's response was that talk of western separation is "entirely counterproductive."
"It leads people to have great and furious arguments, it leads to divisions being created and it takes people down a counterproductive rabbit hole."
Can Goodale really, truly not see how Justin Trudeau's attitude has led plenty of Westerners (Albertans in particular) to desire independence?
Does he honestly think talking of leaving Confederation ruptures national unity more than caving to Quebec by cancelling the Energy East pipeline, refusing to stand up to the B.C. government on Trans Mountain or instructing federal lawyers to make no arguments in support of the pipeline when it was challenged in court by radical First Nations groups?
Seriously, is Goodale unable to see how the Trudeau government passing laws that single out Alberta oil and ban it from being carried by tankers off B.C.'S northern coast is every bit as contentious as angry, frustrated Westerners wondering aloud whether there is any point to staying part of Canada?
This time last year, Canadians were just learning how the Trudeau government put on a fullcourt press to keep the Montreal engineering firm Snc-lavalin in Quebec – including some highly unethical methods. Yet when the energy company Encana, which was once the country's largest firm by market capitalization, announced it was leaving Calgary for Denver, the
Trudeauites did nothing to convince it to stay – not even ethical methods.
Thanks to Liberal "green" policies, these people are on the verge of losing their jobs, businesses, homes and futures.
But independence is not a short, quick journey. Supporters of independence have to build a case for separation that will convince fence-sitters. They will have to find leaders, win elections, hold referenda, negotiate the split.
The first step is contesting elections. Wexit is now set to do just that
Ottawa's clear desire to "phase out" the oilsands – and its willingness to let foreign-funded environmental groups "landlock" our oil – amounts to an attack on Westerners and their livelihoods.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on January 15, 2020, 12:54:34 AM
Post by: Anonymous on January 15, 2020, 12:54:34 AM
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on January 16, 2020, 12:17:24 AM
Post by: Anonymous on January 16, 2020, 12:17:24 AM
Blocking Prairie oil is not about the environment. And neither is it about safety. It's all about politics and control
Alberta and Saskatchewan are landlocked. Many territories in the world are landlocked but are prosperous because they don't have obstructing neighbours.
While a federal tanker ban shuts out Prairie oil from British Columbia's north coast, oil tankers filled with foreign oil enter the Bay of Fundy in the Atlantic and up the St. Lawrence River.
Similarly, there's no campaign (nor should there be) to stop the oil flowing out of Newfoundland and Labrador, and Nova Scotia. No prime minister has ever visited those provinces to announce his/her desire that they keep their oil well beneath the ocean.
Blocking Prairie oil is not about the environment. And neither is it about safety. With all their risks, pipelines remain the safest mode of transport for oil, given the alternatives of trucks and trains. The people of Lac-Mégantic, Que., understand this very well.
The war against Prairie oil is 100 per cent political.
If you think I'm taking too much licence when I suggest that Laurentian Canadians mean to subjugate the West, let us be reminded of sentiments Justin Trudeau expressed in a radio interview in Quebec before he became prime minister, before he became better schooled in the political art of concealing what he means. He said that the country can best be run by federal Liberals from Quebec. He said Canada's troubles at the time were because Albertans were running things. Power, therefore, needed to be wrestled away from Albertans.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on January 17, 2020, 01:49:34 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 17, 2020, 01:49:34 PM
Josh Andrus is the executive director of Project Confederation (
It's now more than 30 years since Preston Manning became the leader of the nascent Reform Party and began his quest to reform the Canadian confederation.
He and his supporters envisioned a new party that would fight for economic and constitutional reform that would bolster the influence of the western provinces while strengthening national unity.
The Reform Party came to represent the idea that "the West wants in" at a time when many were questioning whether they actually did.
Manning knew that the centre of political power in Canada has always resided in Ontario and Quebec and that for the West to have any clout, the Canadian Constitution would need to reflect and respect regional interests.
In order to address this disparity, Reform emphasized the idea of transforming the Senate into an equal, elected, and effective Triple-e Senate.
The idea gained significant support over the years, and yet change proved impossible even with a supportive prime minister, as Stephen Harper saw his own Senate reform proposal rejected by the Supreme Court.
Fast forward to 2020 and, once again, pent up frustrations in Alberta and Saskatchewan have led to calls for significant constitutional reform, or else the West might want out.
Economic activity continues to slow, layoffs continue to roll through the energy industry, tens of thousands have been out of work for multiple years, and if anything, Confederation is far more strained than it was even in the 1980s.
Alberta Premier (and former Reform Party MP) Jason Kenney has assembled a "Fair Deal Panel" of which Manning is a member, along with a cohort of other reputable political names.
It remains to be seen whether Ontario and Quebec will be willing to finally compromise, but one thing is clear to almost everyone in Alberta now — the status quo cannot stand.
The real problem though, is that no matter how "Fair" of a deal — if any — Premier Kenney can wrest from Ottawa, anything that is agreed upon now could be undone almost immediately by any future federal government.
Therefore, in order for any "Fair Deal" for Alberta to last, the deal must include democratic reforms that will protect the deal from being eroded over time.
An elected Senate with effective powers and an equal number of senators per province is the key to preventing this erosion.
A Triple-e Senate would create a legitimate body that could act as a check on the House of Commons.
While not every province would always agree with Alberta's priorities on every issue, a more representative Senate would strengthen all province's hands during future Constitutional debates, helping to restore some Constitutional balance.
In a Senate designed to represent the interests of the provinces, rather than the federal government, it would be in each Senator's interests to protect every other provinces' interests as well.
Preston Manning's experience all those years ago should tell him that the only way that Alberta will get, and crucially be able to keep, a "Fair Deal" from Ottawa is to address the fundamental balance of powers between the federal government and the provinces.
Hopefully he can convince the rest of the Fair Deal Panel that it's time to reopen the Constitution.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on January 24, 2020, 10:57:13 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 24, 2020, 10:57:13 PM
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on February 09, 2020, 01:08:35 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 09, 2020, 01:08:35 PM
As the Trudeau government looks at putting together an "aid package" for Alberta rather than approve the Teck Frontier mine project in the oilsands, and as Liberal MPs openly call for the project to be rejected, it's always interesting to look at the difference between Alberta and Quebec — at least at how the federal government treats them.
We've heard plenty about the need to shut down Teck Frontier. The daily news of protesters trying to block any pipeline that carries Alberta oil out of the province is relentless.
In Quebec though, big projects just go ahead with government approval.
The town even moved some 200 homes and public buildings to the other side of town to let the mine start operations. There were no blockades, endless court challenges and celebrities flying into town to try to stop the project.
I understand that a gold mine is not an oil project and many of the people trying to stop oil projects say they are concerned about climate change, but ripping apart the Earth's surface with an openpit mine this big is hardly environmentally friendly.
But it's in Quebec so it gets treated differently — by governments, by activists, by the media. Kind of like spewing raw sewage or putting up a carbon spewing cement plant without an environmental assessment. Now what about Énergie Saguenay?
This is a project that will see a pipeline built from Eastern Ontario to Saguenay, Que., where a liquified natural gas export port is being built. If you don't know the geography, having an export port in that location means tankers carrying the liquified natural gas will have to navigate the Saguenay River down to the St. Lawrence before heading out to sea. Strange, we have a tanker ban on the West Coast — for oil tankers anyway — to protect the environment but we can have LNG tankers going up and down the St. Lawrence and Saguenay rivers without a peep. We can also build a pipeline for the project through major urban centres and through land claimed by various indigenous groups and, remarkably, not a word of protest.
Also, as the Trudeau government confirmed to me when I first reported on this project two years ago, Énergie Saguenay was not required to account for upstream and downstream greenhouse gas emissions in order to get approval.
A spokesperson for then-environment minister Catherine McKenna said the project only needed to account for emissions upstream, not every emission from people using the product in other countries to heat their homes.
This is a project that was sent to the government for approval a year after the proposed Energy East pipeline but only one was required to meet the more rigorous test. The tougher test is one of the reasons Energy East was pulled.
As the Trudeau cabinet weighs its options on Teck Frontier, as it looks at the skyrocketing costs of building Trans Mountain due to government delays, it needs to think carefully. Rejecting this project, or even approving it with a pile of new conditions unpalatable to Alberta or the company, will only send one message: You don't matter.
National unity is in the balance. There is no scenario where a federal government would shut down such a major investment in Quebec, one where thousands of jobs would be created.
Trudeau needs to treat Alberta with the same respect and approve this project.
Title: Re: Wexit
Post by: Anonymous on February 21, 2020, 03:32:42 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 21, 2020, 03:32:42 PM
EDMONTON — Four federal Conservative MPs from Alberta issued a manifesto for the province on Thursday, warning against the rising threat of western alienation and separatism and calling for clear efforts from Ottawa that they say would constitute a "concerted effort to repair our national bonds."
Unless the perceived inequalities within Confederation outlined in the document are remedied, they caution, the strain between Alberta and the rest of the country will push the province to seek separation as its only recourse. "One way or another, Albertans will have equality," the letter concludes. It was signed by four Alberta MPs: Arnold Viersen, Blake Richards, Glen Motz and Michelle Rempel Garner. Viersen, Richards and Motz did not respond to an interview request by press time.
The 13-page "Buffalo Declaration" — named in homage to Sir Frederick Haultain's original vision of Alberta and Saskatchewan as a united province called Buffalo — was released Thursday online and in the conservative Alberta based publication The Western Standard. The document had some echoes of the so-called "firewall letter," the Alberta agenda published in the National Post in January 2001, in that it identified structural imbalances in the country that Albertans believe perennially shortchange the province's interests. But while that earlier document outlined a policy plan for Alberta to strengthen its powers within Confederation, similar to those Quebec enjoys, and was addressed to then premier Ralph Klein, the Buffalo Declaration aims its demands directly at the federal government and the rest of Canada. "It is not our job to explain Alberta's value, it is now up to Canada to show they understand Alberta and our value to Confederation," the authors say.
The Buffalo Declaration lists four distinct challenges that the signatories believe the province faces. Among them, the belief that Alberta has always been an unequal member of Canada; that Alberta has a distinct culture that has gone unacknowledged; and that Alberta has been treated as a colony within Confederation to be exploited for the benefit of the east rather than a partner.
The declaration calls for the House of Commons to publicly acknowledge the devastation of the National Energy Program on Alberta. "When you acknowledge something happened, that's a starting point to fixing it," Rempel Garner said. It calls for reform of the equalization system and demands fairer political representation for the West, such as could be achieved with a different Senate arrangement. It also calls for arts and culture funding to be spread more equally to the west, and for Ottawa to "Ensure Western art is prominently displayed in national museums," as well as "greater access for Western-based journalists to the Parliamentary Press Gallery to ensure widespread coverage of issues facing Alberta within the national news narrative."
In an interview, Rempel Garner said the intention of many of these points was to broaden the discussion about Alberta; it's not just a province that has an oil and gas industry, even though alienation is most often expressed via economic concerns.