Title: Do you think a consumer carbon tax in Canada will have any effect on the earth's climate?
Post by: Gaon on December 17, 2019, 10:16:33 PM
Post by: Gaon on December 17, 2019, 10:16:33 PM
Title: Re: Do you think a consumer carbon tax in Canada will have any effect on the earth's climate?
Post by: Anonymous on December 17, 2019, 10:26:26 PM
Post by: Anonymous on December 17, 2019, 10:26:26 PM
This could be the dominant discussion in Canada. Do you think it will have even a slight change on the earth's climate, or do you believe it's symbolism. Perhaps some people think it's a revenue policy and not an environmental one.Quote from: "Gaon"
I think it's something else.....a vote buying scheme..
Working class families are being charged more for necessities like heat and transportation and the proceeds of my family's earnings are given to corporations and billionaire friends of the prime minister..
And no, I don't believe it will have any affect on climate.
Title: Re: Do you think a consumer carbon tax in Canada will have any effect on the earth's climate?
Post by: Gaon on December 17, 2019, 10:54:16 PM
Post by: Gaon on December 17, 2019, 10:54:16 PM
Title: Re: Do you think a consumer carbon tax in Canada will have any effect on the earth's climate?
Post by: Anonymous on December 17, 2019, 11:23:32 PM
Post by: Anonymous on December 17, 2019, 11:23:32 PM
This could be the dominant discussion in Canada. Do you think it will have even a slight change on the earth's climate, or do you believe it's symbolism. Perhaps some people think it's a revenue policy and not an environmental one.Quote from: "Gaon"
Every single frickin thing Justine does is virtue signalling.
Title: Re: Do you think a consumer carbon tax in Canada will have any effect on the earth's climate?
Post by: Anonymous on December 18, 2019, 12:03:26 AM
Post by: Anonymous on December 18, 2019, 12:03:26 AM
This could be the dominant discussion in Canada. Do you think it will have even a slight change on the earth's climate, or do you believe it's symbolism. Perhaps some people think it's a revenue policy and not an environmental one.Quote from: "Gaon"
I think it's something else.....a vote buying scheme..
Working class families are being charged more for necessities like heat and transportation and the proceeds of my family's earnings are given to corporations and billionaire friends of the prime minister..
And no, I don't believe it will have any affect on climate.
I am with you. This is robbing the middle class to buy the votes of the rich.
Title: Re: Do you think a consumer carbon tax in Canada will have any effect on the earth's climate?
Post by: Anonymous on December 18, 2019, 12:14:38 AM
Post by: Anonymous on December 18, 2019, 12:14:38 AM
This could be the dominant discussion in Canada. Do you think it will have even a slight change on the earth's climate, or do you believe it's symbolism. Perhaps some people think it's a revenue policy and not an environmental one.Quote from: "Gaon"
I believe True Dope will stop climate change in it's tracks with his bold carbon cash grab.
Title: Re: Do you think a consumer carbon tax in Canada will have any effect on the earth's climate?
Post by: Anonymous on December 18, 2019, 12:31:30 AM
Post by: Anonymous on December 18, 2019, 12:31:30 AM
This could be the dominant discussion in Canada. Do you think it will have even a slight change on the earth's climate, or do you believe it's symbolism. Perhaps some people think it's a revenue policy and not an environmental one.Quote from: "Gaon"
I believe True Dope will stop climate change in it's tracks with his bold carbon cash grab.ac_toofunny ac_lmfao
A good healthy amount of cynicism.
Title: Re: Do you think a consumer carbon tax in Canada will have any effect on the earth's climate?
Post by: Anonymous on December 18, 2019, 12:40:53 AM
Post by: Anonymous on December 18, 2019, 12:40:53 AM
Title: Re: Do you think a consumer carbon tax in Canada will have any effect on the earth's climate?
Post by: Zetsu on December 18, 2019, 05:27:50 AM
Post by: Zetsu on December 18, 2019, 05:27:50 AM
Title: Re: Do you think a consumer carbon tax in Canada will have any effect on the earth's climate?
Post by: Anonymous on December 18, 2019, 08:58:20 AM
Post by: Anonymous on December 18, 2019, 08:58:20 AM
What Trudeau is doing is basically boldly robbing a person and using that money he stole to buy weapons to kill the victim, pretty much the oil industry. Only proves traitor Trudeau is nothing short of a cunning waste of shit, as usual.Quote from: "Zetsu"
Speaking of the oil industry, the pm's carbon tax doesn't apply to imported oil.
Title: Re: Do you think a consumer carbon tax in Canada will have any effect on the earth's climate?
Post by: Anonymous on December 18, 2019, 09:59:54 AM
Post by: Anonymous on December 18, 2019, 09:59:54 AM
This could be the dominant discussion in Canada. Do you think it will have even a slight change on the earth's climate, or do you believe it's symbolism. Perhaps some people think it's a revenue policy and not an environmental one.Quote from: "Gaon"
Canada's carbon tax is just plain stupid. It costs too much and does too little.
Carbon taxation was originally based on a right-wing, free-market theory. The simple idea, to paraphrase Milton Friedman, is that if you tax something, you get less of it. It could elegantly allow the markets to find the most efficient ways to reduce carbon without the need for government regulations. Many respectable conservative-minded people bought into this theory. Let's look at the reality in practice.
Theoretically, carbon prices are supposed to reduce regulation. However, in every jurisdiction where carbon pricing has been implemented, it doesn't reduce regulation — it increases it. Carbon-pricing schemes in Europe, California and Canada are all very complicated. The Canadian government just recently introduced 500 new pages of legislation and regulation.
Another problem is carbon leakage, which occurs when production and investment simply move to jurisdictions without a carbon tax. In this case, emissions are simply displaced in whole or in part.
Carbon leakage is worse than you think, as it can actually increase global emissions. Take the case of Canadian aluminum, which produces only two tonnes of carbon per tonne, versus American aluminum at 11 tonnes of carbon per tonne. In practice, no one should have to explain to an aluminum worker that they lost their job because "after all, we all need to do our part," only to have global emissions increase 550 per cent as a result. (To generalize this example, Canada's economy is 70 per cent reliant on trade, and 80 per cent of our trade is with the United States, which has not imposed a carbon tax.)
The other problem we find in practice: Demand for hydrocarbons is very inelastic. People will pay what it takes to heat their homes and get to work. The Conference Board of Canada found that even a $200/tonne carbon tax would only reduce 12 megatonnes of Canadian emissions before carbon leakage. Global carbon would likely only be reduced by 70 per cent of this amount. Meanwhile, just one large LNG plant could achieve more than that by replacing coal in China with natural gas.
Canada has a global comparative advantage in carbon in many industries because of our high environmental standards. A global approach to capitalizing on Canada's environmental advantage would yield a double dividend of a stronger economy and a cleaner global environment. Carbon pricing, on the other hand, may create a green paradox — policies meant to reduce emissions that not only eliminate some people's jobs, but increase global emissions.
Trudeau's carbon tax is the worst of all worlds: kills jobs, artificially raises the cost of living, lowers investment and does nothing to reduce emissions.
Title: Re: Do you think a consumer carbon tax in Canada will have any effect on the earth's climate?
Post by: Anonymous on December 18, 2019, 10:19:27 AM
Post by: Anonymous on December 18, 2019, 10:19:27 AM
What Trudeau is doing is basically boldly robbing a person and using that money he stole to buy weapons to kill the victim, pretty much the oil industry. Only proves traitor Trudeau is nothing short of a cunning waste of shit, as usual.Quote from: "Zetsu"
Speaking of the oil industry, the pm's carbon tax doesn't apply to imported oil.
How come in the middle of a trade spat with the Saudis, Ottawa isn't even imposing the same taxes and regulations on Saudi oil that it imposes on Alberta, Saskatchewan and Newfoundland oil?
It looks as if, a) the Liberal government isn't serious about standing up to the Saudis and b) they aren't serious about their own campaign to reduce emissions and save the planet.
If the Liberals are so intent on cutting Canadians' emissions by imposing a new carbon tax and by creating impossible new environmental standards for the approval of new pipelines, how come they let foreign oil enter the country without subjecting it to the same "green" taxes or the same environmental screening processes?
Keep in mind, too, that Liberals let millions of tonnes of American coal come into Canada for export to the rest of the world without imposing a carbon tax, either.
The short answer is: The Liberals aren't a serious government. They're nothing more than intellectually lightweight virtue-signalers.
Title: Re: Do you think a consumer carbon tax in Canada will have any effect on the earth's climate?
Post by: Blazor on December 18, 2019, 11:06:19 AM
Post by: Blazor on December 18, 2019, 11:06:19 AM
They are robbing y'all.
Title: Re: Do you think a consumer carbon tax in Canada will have any effect on the earth's climate?
Post by: Anonymous on December 18, 2019, 11:18:55 AM
Post by: Anonymous on December 18, 2019, 11:18:55 AM
By Robert P. Murphy, a senior fellow at the Fraser Institute
As the Kenney government begins its constitutional challenge to Ottawa's carbon tax on consumers, both the provincial and federal governments agree on Alberta's new carbon tax on large industrial emitters.
Yet legal issues aside, Alberta's carbon tax reflects bad economics.
Even though many Albertans worry about climate change, it's important to take steps that will actually be effective.
Passing symbolic legislation will simply raise energy prices without doing much to help the environment.
One major problem with the Alberta government's so-called Technology Innovation and Emissions Reduction (TIER) program is that it's not a simple carbon tax applying uniformly to all emissions.
Instead, the TIER program is a hodgepodge of annual emission-target reductions enforced with an initial financial penalty of $30 per tonne of excess emissions, and with differing benchmarks based on the industry.
When the plan was first rolled out in late-October, it only applied to some 55% of Alberta emissions.
This approach undermines the whole justification of a carbon tax.
In theory, a carbon tax — set to the level of environmental damages and then applied uniformly to all emitters — will provide the proper "price signal" to prompt emitters to account for the damage they cause.
But these ostensible virtues of a carbon tax are muted if it's implemented in an arbitrary fashion — as it is with Alberta's TIER program.
For example, in 2017, Canada was responsible for only 1.6% of global carbon dioxide emissions.
And that percentage will only shrink over time as countries such as China and India experience faster economic growth with relatively high emissions-to-GDP ratios.
A few years ago I asked climate scientist Paul Knappenberger to use a standard climate modelling package and emission scenario to project the contributions of various regions through the end of the century.
Knappenberger found that from 2017 to 2100, China alone accounted for a third (33%) of global emissions while India accounted for another 13%.
The entire European Union was only 7%. Needless to say, the impact of Canada — let alone Alberta! — on total global emissions over the next 80 years will be quite small.
When it comes to climate change economics, it doesn't work to merely ask each small country to "do its part."
For example, if the EU and Canada make gasoline very expensive, then their people will drive less.
But this will lower global oil prices, encouraging Americans and the Chinese to drive more.
Such aggressive policies would greatly inconvenience Canadians and Europeans while doing little to slow global warming.
By its nature, climate change is a global problem.
Trying to solve it through the political process is a dubious strategy, as voters in future elections can always demand a reversal (just look at Australia, the United States and, of course, Canada).
Albertans concerned about climate change should support solutions that don't depend on permanent global government enforcement.
This could include more research or even something as simple as a tree-planting initiative.
But enacting a provincial tax on CO2 emissions is more symbolism than substance.
Title: Re: Do you think a consumer carbon tax in Canada will have any effect on the earth's climate?
Post by: Anonymous on December 18, 2019, 11:21:56 AM
Post by: Anonymous on December 18, 2019, 11:21:56 AM
No it wont. ]Quote from: "Blazor"
I believe the basic theory behind AGW. What we do not know is how much man is responsible for a changing climate.
Title: Re: Do you think a consumer carbon tax in Canada will have any effect on the earth's climate?
Post by: Blazor on December 18, 2019, 11:39:46 AM
Post by: Blazor on December 18, 2019, 11:39:46 AM
No it wont. ]Quote from: "Blazor"
I believe the basic theory behind AGW. What we do not know is how much man is responsible for a changing climate.
I know its less than cow farts
Title: Re: Do you think a consumer carbon tax in Canada will have any effect on the earth's climate?
Post by: Anonymous on December 18, 2019, 12:21:41 PM
Post by: Anonymous on December 18, 2019, 12:21:41 PM
No it wont. ]Quote from: "Blazor"
I believe the basic theory behind AGW. What we do not know is how much man is responsible for a changing climate.
I know its less than cow farts:laugh:
Even if it's a lot, why are we killing our middle class while China and India continue to put more CO2 into the atmosphere. Canada's share of global emissions is insignificant and dropping. A carbon tax in Canada is a futile attempt at stopping global climate change.
Title: Re: Do you think a consumer carbon tax in Canada will have any effect on the earth's climate?
Post by: Blazor on December 18, 2019, 01:21:19 PM
Post by: Blazor on December 18, 2019, 01:21:19 PM
No it wont. ]Quote from: "Blazor"
I believe the basic theory behind AGW. What we do not know is how much man is responsible for a changing climate.
I know its less than cow farts:laugh:
Even if it's a lot, why are we killing our middle class while China and India continue to put more CO2 into the atmosphere. Canada's share of global emissions is insignificant and dropping. A carbon tax in Canada is a futile attempt at stopping global climate change.
Its stupid man, super stupid.
Title: Re: Do you think a consumer carbon tax in Canada will have any effect on the earth's climate?
Post by: Anonymous on December 18, 2019, 03:10:25 PM
Post by: Anonymous on December 18, 2019, 03:10:25 PM
No it wont. ]Quote from: "Blazor"
I believe the basic theory behind AGW. What we do not know is how much man is responsible for a changing climate.
I know its less than cow farts:laugh:
Even if it's a lot, why are we killing our middle class while China and India continue to put more CO2 into the atmosphere. Canada's share of global emissions is insignificant and dropping. A carbon tax in Canada is a futile attempt at stopping global climate change.
Its stupid man, super stupid.
Our pm has been asked how much his carbon tax will slow climate change and of course he can't answer that..
Instead he calls C02
Title: Re: Do you think a consumer carbon tax in Canada will have any effect on the earth's climate?
Post by: Thiel on December 23, 2019, 07:15:13 PM
Post by: Thiel on December 23, 2019, 07:15:13 PM
This could be the dominant discussion in Canada. Do you think it will have even a slight change on the earth's climate, or do you believe it's symbolism. Perhaps some people think it's a revenue policy and not an environmental one.Quote from: "Gaon"
Anything we do within Canada and to taxpayers here will not affect climate change one way or another. It's what we do internationally through exports and technology that will make a difference.
Title: Re: Do you think a consumer carbon tax in Canada will have any effect on the earth's climate?
Post by: Anonymous on December 23, 2019, 08:04:05 PM
Post by: Anonymous on December 23, 2019, 08:04:05 PM
This could be the dominant discussion in Canada. Do you think it will have even a slight change on the earth's climate, or do you believe it's symbolism. Perhaps some people think it's a revenue policy and not an environmental one.Quote from: "Gaon"
Anything we do within Canada and to taxpayers here will not affect climate change one way or another. It's what we do internationally through exports and technology that will make a difference.
That's what is so frustrating..
The federal government is taking resources away from family for nothing.
Title: Re: Do you think a consumer carbon tax in Canada will have any effect on the earth's climate?
Post by: Anonymous on December 28, 2019, 04:19:39 PM
Post by: Anonymous on December 28, 2019, 04:19:39 PM
Title: Re: Do you think a consumer carbon tax in Canada will have any effect on the earth's climate?
Post by: Anonymous on January 02, 2020, 11:59:44 AM
Post by: Anonymous on January 02, 2020, 11:59:44 AM
It is not possible for consumers to get more back in rebates than they pay in tax
If you ask average Ontarians why their province has lost upwards of 300,000 well-paying manufacturing jobs in the past dozen years, most would probably blame globalization.
Average Ontarians (particularly those in the Greater Toronto Area) vote Liberal by default. So, it's easy to convince them that greedy corporations have used freer trade to move jobs offshore in search of higher profits at the expense of workers.
The truth, though, is that
Most didn't flee to Third World economies with cheap labour
Most merely moved south to states that weren't forcing industrial and residential consumers to pay the cost of politicians' wind, solar and biofuel fantasies.
The problem for Canada — and specifically for Alberta — is that
The carbon tax will not only make the price of a fill-up more expensive (by about 4.5 cents a litre) and raise the cost of heating your home by more than 50 per cent, it will also drive away investment, prevent jobs from being created, lower Alberta's projected GDP and stall the opening of new or expanded businesses.
Of course, you'd never know that from listening to the federal Liberals or the activists and media outlets who share their "green" dreams.
To hear the pro-tax side tell it, most Canadians will make more money from federal carbon rebates than they pay in carbon taxes.
Yeah, that's always the case, isn't it? Governments always give us back more than they take in taxes.
The Mulroney government, for instance, promised the GST would be "revenue neutral," too.
It's simply impossible for a government to give away more than it takes in, unless it increases taxes elsewhere or goes deeper into debt.
The pro-tax Pembina Institute said this week Albertans had nothing to fear from Ottawa's carbon tax. After all, not one dime raised by the tax would stay in the federal treasury.
This is as clueless as the claim by former Alberta premier Rachel Notley that her government's carbon tax would be revenue-neutral because every dollar would be spent immediately. (Huh!?)
With a consumption tax such as the carbon tax — one that includes at least five provincial variations and a complicated rebate formula — you can expect bureaucratic administration costs to equal at least 10 to 15 per cent of the amount raised.
On revenues of $9 billion annually, let's call that $1 billion in administrative costs.
If those bureaucratic costs don't come out of the money raised by the carbon tax, they will come out of income tax or some other tax.
I know cultish True Believers in the eco-world are convinced we can convert to a totally "green" economy with no cost and no pain. However, that is simply delusional.
The CBC — the always reliable cheerleader from all things Liberal — even trumpeted how the carbon tax would be "good news for your wallet."
Similar claims were made in the 2010s in Ontario. For instance, the Ontario Liberals reassured that for every manufacturing job lost a well-paying "green" job would be created.
According to the Ontario auditor general, the reality was 12,000 "green" jobs were created to replace the 300,000 lost jobs. And most of those only lasted until government subsidies ran out.
You can buy all the hokum spewed by the Liberals and the environmentalists about the benefits of a carbon tax The truth is, the tax will stunt economic growth (especially in energy-dependent Alberta) and it will achieve no emission reductions.
Title: Re: Do you think a consumer carbon tax in Canada will have any effect on the earth's climate?
Post by: Zetsu on January 02, 2020, 02:34:49 PM
Post by: Zetsu on January 02, 2020, 02:34:49 PM
No it wont. ]Quote from: "Blazor"
I believe the basic theory behind AGW. What we do not know is how much man is responsible for a changing climate.
I know its less than cow farts:laugh:
Even if it's a lot, why are we killing our middle class while China and India continue to put more CO2 into the atmosphere. Canada's share of global emissions is insignificant and dropping. A carbon tax in Canada is a futile attempt at stopping global climate change.
Couldn't be any more well said, I can't care any less if China and the rest of Asia screw themselves up, but like you've mentioned if we look at a global factor Canada only produce about 1.6% of the world's global emission, given the fact even if this carbon tax somehow manages to reduce Canada's carbon output by about 15%, that's still less than a very very petty quarter of a percent of the world's C02 footprint, but probably at the cost of Canada's G8 status.
Title: Re: Do you think a consumer carbon tax in Canada will have any effect on the earth's climate?
Post by: Anonymous on January 02, 2020, 02:40:54 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 02, 2020, 02:40:54 PM
No it wont. ]Quote from: "Blazor"
I believe the basic theory behind AGW. What we do not know is how much man is responsible for a changing climate.
I know its less than cow farts:laugh:
Even if it's a lot, why are we killing our middle class while China and India continue to put more CO2 into the atmosphere. Canada's share of global emissions is insignificant and dropping. A carbon tax in Canada is a futile attempt at stopping global climate change.
Couldn't been any more well said, I can't care any less if China and the rest of Asia screw themselves up, but like you've mentioned if we look at a global factor Canada only produce about 1.6% of the world's global emission, given the fact even if this carbon tax somehow manages to reduce Canada's carbon output by about 15%, that's still less than a very very petty quarter of a percent of the world's C02 footprint, but probably at the cost of Canada's G8 status.
Even we reduced our emissions by eighty per cent it won't make any difference to climate change..
It's particularly futile knowing that China, India and the developing world are cancelling out our drop in emissions.
Title: Re: Do you think a consumer carbon tax in Canada will have any effect on the earth's climate?
Post by: Anonymous on January 02, 2020, 03:36:03 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 02, 2020, 03:36:03 PM
Canadians are being asked to sacrifice a lot of money, jobs and growth for something that will make no difference.
Title: Re: Do you think a consumer carbon tax in Canada will have any effect on the earth's climate?
Post by: Anonymous on January 03, 2020, 12:54:40 AM
Post by: Anonymous on January 03, 2020, 12:54:40 AM
Title: Re: Do you think a consumer carbon tax in Canada will have any effect on the earth's climate?
Post by: Anonymous on January 03, 2020, 09:00:30 AM
Post by: Anonymous on January 03, 2020, 09:00:30 AM
It will go up another 3 cents a litre in April when the carbon tax goes from $20 per tonne to $30 per tonne.
Title: Re: Do you think a consumer carbon tax in Canada will have any effect on the earth's climate?
Post by: Anonymous on September 21, 2020, 09:46:43 PM
Post by: Anonymous on September 21, 2020, 09:46:43 PM
The odds are against a decision in favour of the provinces. Let's hope for a fall present.
Title: Re: Do you think a consumer carbon tax in Canada will have any effect on the earth's climate?
Post by: cc on September 21, 2020, 10:21:39 PM
Post by: cc on September 21, 2020, 10:21:39 PM
& get a long-term pass from the West
Title: Re: Do you think a consumer carbon tax in Canada will have any effect on the earth's climate?
Post by: Anonymous on September 21, 2020, 10:29:56 PM
Post by: Anonymous on September 21, 2020, 10:29:56 PM
It makes me so angry seeing Western countries thinking what they do helps ... as China and India +++ do the real damage
& get a long-term pass from the West
We don't mind making sacrifices if it will make a difference..
But, it can't possibly and our pm knows that.