I have just been reading a history book on the Samarai and have read about the battles between the Samarai and the Mongols. The Mongols didn't know what they were up against. These Samarai with the help of the weather destroyed the feared Samarai. Most nations wisely simply conceded defeat. Not the Japanese though. In the second huge attempt to invade Japan half of their army was Chinese and they sent a huge armada of dollar store quality largely flat bottomed river ships from the Yangze river to cross the straight to Japan and when the typhoon hit they didn't fare to well. The first invasion the Mongols fought hard but the Samarai fought harder and smarter. The Mongols were impressed with the Samarai warriors. I am not sure if the Mongols ever fought a war with such a warrior culture.
If you don't find this topic interesting then don't post on it trollbitch
I suspect that the Mongols expected another cakewalk like they had in invading China when they made their first attempt at conguering Japan. What a dream match up the Mongols who terrorised the known world everywhere going up against the Samarai. The Samurai coming at them with far more daring than even the Mongols had with more and better training must have psyched them out. After the second gigantic disasterous attempt the Mongols talked about the third attempt for many years but I believe they couldn't stomach the humiliation of another defeat and couldn't work up the guts for it. They had excuses of course that they had other important affairs to settle but no doubt they knew what they were up against in the Samurai. It may be that the Samurai struck fear in the infamous Mongols
What a matchup. The Legendary Mongol warriors vs the Samurai . The Samarai amazed the Mongols. This is like the big tough guy going up against a lethal little guy and getting his butt kicked. It's never mattered to the Samurai that they were outnumbered , they would attack to show no fear and to show how brave they were and that they were not afraid to die.
What? Temujin was afraid of Miyamoto Musashi? I love both warriors! I would like an epic movie depicting those two warriors battling. Action packed adventure epic! Is there a movie like that? I think I've seen almost all of Akira Kurosawa's movies.
They actually were humans you know. When the multinational force was coming up on Tianjin and were outnumbered five to one the Japanese charged by themselves and the huge Chinese force that had the entire foreign combined forces outnumbered five to one ran.
I considered them both really tough. I thought the Mongols too were not afraid to stare death in the face. Both were brave and courageous. I just consider the Samurai elegant compared to the seemingly barbaric Mongols.
Quote from: "Obvious Li"
I have read thirteen books so far this year Obviously a simpleton li and have cranked in almost half the vocabulary I need to speak Vietnamese [ about a thousand words so far ] now what have you learned Einstien ?
Quote from: "Gary Oak"
Quote from: "Obvious Li"
I have read thirteen books so far this year Obviously a simpleton li and have cranked in almost half the vocabulary I need to speak Vietnamese [ about a thousand words so far ]
i don't think i actually learned anything new this year...just confirmed that fucktards abound and as a famous writer once wrote "there is nothing new under the sun" it seems he was quite correct
Well Einstein what books have you read ? I have read
1 When China rules the world
2 The holographic universe
3 The trail of 1858
4 Prisoners of the north
5 The outdoors survival handbook
6 symbols of freemasonry
7 a brief history of the templers
8 the dark history of the popes
9 a brief history of the samurai
10 the lazy investor
11 Shadow government
12 Poorly made In China
13 and a book on certain Canadian experiences
14 The Dark Secret Of G.A.O.T.U
It appears that it is you who is the simpleton fucktard troll. Have you even read one book ? Each book that I have read is knowledge that I have that you don't and knowledge that I didn't have last year. :D It turns out I have actually read 14 and I think that I will read one more Canadian history book before new years :D
Quote from: "Gary Oak"
1 When China rules the world
2 The holographic universe
3 The trail of 1858
4 Prisoners of the north
5 The outdoors survival handbook
6 symbols of freemasonry
7 a brief history of the templers
8 the dark history of the popes
9 a brief history of the samurai
10 the lazy investor
11 Shadow government
12 Forbidden Science
13 and a book on certain Canadian experiences
It appears that it is you who is the simpleton fucktard troll
knock yourself out (reading for dummies) i usually try and experience different cultures, ideas and theories, not read about them...but as they say.....those that can .do and those that can't ..read about it...cheers
I speak a number of languages. You were in Vietnam , how many Vietnamese words do you know ? I speak a number of languages. How well can you experience a place without knowing the language ? It really sucks in comparison being in a country and not know the language and being there and able to speak freely with cabbies,ask for directions,order food,have a conversation in their language etc.... Yes I am quite well travelled so don't try to lay that shiite on me .
This topic is about the epic two battles between the Samurai and the Mongols, go back to the memebee forum if you want a mudslinging contest
i'd rather sling mud than what you're trying to sling......i guess it's time to duck (out)
I have to admit the mongols were genius on the battlefield, but at the same time they were lucky the Song dynasty wasn't considered unified during that time and Europe was still weak.
Quote from: "Shen Li"
Quote from: "Zetsu"
Hey Zetsu, nice to see you again pal. :D
Same here Pansy 8-)
Quote from: "Zetsu"
I can't think of any chinese dynasty that could have defeated the Mongols. The Vietnamese won some battles against them but the Mongols I doubt were ready for the combination of Vietnamese freaks in jungle warfare
Quote from: "Gary Oak"
Quote from: "Zetsu"
I can't think of any chinese dynasty that could have defeated the Mongols. The Vietnamese won some battles against them but the Mongols I doubt were ready for the combination of Vietnamese freaks in jungle warfare
The Han, Tang and Ming dynasty were pretty strong and could have defeated them. For the Vietnamese it's not surprising why they won, considering the Mongol army is cavary based it's practically impossible for them to properly fight in a jungle enviroment, using foot soldiers as the only option, which were known as one of the weakest unit in their army.
These dynasties may have been stronger than the Song dynasty but the quality of the soldiers wouldn't have been able to match the expertise and the size of the Mongols. The Han Tang and other dynasties proved that they were capable of handling the Mongols of their day but the Mongols of Ghengis Khan and the Yuan dynasty were a diffent bunch of Mongols. They were well trained and very experienced
I was just watching last night with a buddhist friend of mine The Last Samurai and after reading this book I got so much out of it. I could see how they trained, I could see stuff in the background like Samurai sharpening their swords. My buddhist friend brought some details to my attention that I was unawar of as he had at one time studied the Japanese Zen buddhism. When one ____ to a higher level of zen buddism in their fighting they become their opponant and know what he is thinking doing etc... and then they show Tom Cruise and his opponant ending a match with him in a draw doing the same move with the kendo sword and each others throats. I wouldn't have picked up on this if my friend hadn't explained this to me before this scene was shown. Could it actually be that the Zen buddhist priests brought the bad weather that aided them in both battles ?
The Samurai though they mostly fought against each other they certainly honed their skills with such elite forces in constant competition. When the Mongols came they must have been astounded at the far superior grappling skills and moves. the far superior archery skill [ and mongols were expert marksmen with their bows ] , the far superior striking and kicking skills and technique, the far superior swordsmanship skills and techniques and the incredible fearlessless. They must have been astounded at the boats coming at them with warriors in strange outlandish armour against what appeared to be incredible odds and then hopping on the mongol ships in attempts to defeat the vastly superior forces and then when the Samurai did make it on the boats they must have dazzled the Mongols with their superior fighting skills. The Mongols being expert fighters would have recognised the superiority of the Samurai as fighting also was their forte.
The Mongols had poisoned arrows which were effective against the Samurai
oops
Here's a short version of this epic match up
Kublai Khan and the Mongols Attack on Japan (1274)
In 1268, after having conquered northern China and Korea, Kublai Khan demanded that Japan submit to him. The Japanese refused. In November 1274, the Khan launched a fleet of 900 ships and 40,000 troops form Korea, which arrived at Kyushu's Hakata Bay (near present-day Fukuoka, Japan) a couple days later after overwhelming Japanese forces on the islands of Tsusima and Iki. [Source: Torao Mazia, National Geographic, November 1982]
Kublai Khan attacked Japan while was still engaged in mopping up operations against the remnants of the Song Dynasty. He attacked Japan because he needed resources and wanted to demonstrate his power. The Mongol army, which fought as a mass, was no match for the 6,000 or so Japanese samurai and gokenin (armed retainers), who fought as individuals and allowed the Mongols to push only 10 miles inland after a week of fighting.
Nervous about Japanese reenforcements and perhaps about the weather, the Mongols returned to their ships. Some historical records insist the Mongol navy was overtaken by a "storm" that sunk 200 ships, took 13,500 lives and forced them to retreat to China. More likely the ships simply returned home when the wind changed direction.
After the retreat, Kublai Khan prepared to attack Japan again. During the seven year interval between the battles the Mongols ordered the Koreans to build new ships and prepare a large army for the invasion. A Mongol ship from that period found by archeologist was 230 feet in length, twice as big as any European ship used at that time.
In the meantime, Japanese built a massive 10-foot-high, 12.4-mile-long wall around Hakata Bay in six months, recruited samurai from around the archipelago and trained local fishermen and traders to be fighters. The Khan sent envoys, asking the Japanese to submit but again they refused and executed the khan's ambassadors.
Kublai Khan Attack of Japan Again (1281)
In one of the greatest naval assaults ever Kublai Khan attacked Japan in 1281 with 4,400 ships and 110,000 Korean, Chinese and Mongol troops. In contrast, the famed Spanish Armada that attempted to invade Elizabethan England contained only 130 ships and 27,500 men and the D-Day invasion force that stormed the beaches of Normandy included about 8,000 ships and 175,000 soldiers.
The Japanese army on Kyushu consisted of 100,000 regulars and 25,000 reserves. The Japanese didn't have much of a navy—their seamen were afraid of going too far away from the coast—so local pirates were hired. The pirates were so good at harassing the Yuan forces. For protection the Mongol, Chinese and Korean ships were chained together in long lines to make it harder for the pirates to board them.
The Japanese weapons and armor—bows and arrows, spears, swords, wooden shields and samurai style armor—were inferior to the poisoned arrows, maces, lassos, javelins, bombs filled with black powder, catapults and bronze helmets used by the Mongols.
One of the more unusual finds in the underwater archeological excavation of Kublai Khans fleet were bricks. The Mongols built onboard forges for blacksmiths to use in making horseshoes and repairing weapons. Some of the bricks, some scholars have speculated, may have been brought along to build shrines to celebrate a Mongol victory. [Source: Torao Mazia, National Geographic, November 1982]
Fighting During the Second Invasion by the Mongols
Mongol bombing attack The Mongols sent two fleets: a large Chinese one with 3,500 ships and 100,000 troops, and a smaller Korean-Mongol one with 900 ships and 10,000 troops. The two fleets were supposed to rendevous at Iki island but that didn't happen. The Korean force captured Iki and moved on without waiting for the Chinese force.
The Mongols apparently had no knowledge of the massive wall built by the Japanese. The Korean-Mongol force landed directly in front of it, with the Japanese were waiting for them. Fighting in cramped quarters along a coastlibe robbed the Mongols of their most successful tactic—the lightning cavalry charge that had routed the finest armies of Asia and Eastern Europe—and forced them back on to their ships.
The Japanese counterattacked the Mongol ships. Samurai warriors leapt onto the decks of the enemy ships and fought with the crews. Burning ships were sent into masses of enemy warships. The Korean-Mongol force retreated to Iki Island.
Kamikaze Wind Saves Japan
After being held up the larger Chinese contingent finally arrived attacked the Japanese on the island of Takashima. Fighting ther last for for weeks. The Japanese and Chinese-Mongol engaged in closely-contested battles around Hakata Bay and neither side was able to gain a clear advantage.
The Mongols attempted to break the morale of the Japanese army with brutality. The hands of Japanese women were pierced with a knives and they were tied to the bows of ships with ropes strung through their wounds.
At the end of July, as the Mongols were preparing to invade mainland Kyushu, the Emperor of Japan and other high-ranking official were praying to the gods for help. As if their prayers were answered, a "divine wind" known as a kamikaze, kicked up and halted the Mongol invasion. An estimated 4,000 ships were sunk and 100,000 lives were lost.
Japanese accounts at the time reported that "a person could walk across from one point of land to another on a mass of wreckage." Kublai Khan never sent an invading force to Japan again. A planned invasion in 1286 was called off. The Japanese launched some raids, more piratical than military, against Korea and China. The victory for the Japanese ensured their security, solitude and belief they were protected by the gods. Japan escaped foreign occupation and its territory was not threatened again until World War II, six and a half centuries later.
Quote from: "Zetsu"
Quote from: "Gary Oak"
Quote from: "Zetsu"
I can't think of any chinese dynasty that could have defeated the Mongols. The Vietnamese won some battles against them but the Mongols I doubt were ready for the combination of Vietnamese freaks in jungle warfare
The Han, Tang and Ming dynasty were pretty strong and could have defeated them. For the Vietnamese it's not surprising why they won, considering the Mongol army is cavary based it's practically impossible for them to properly fight in a jungle enviroment, using foot soldiers as the only option, which were known as one of the weakest unit in their army.
I recently saw a great show on how the Vietnamese literally wrote the book on jungle guerilla warfare when they were first invaded by the Mongols. They kept the manual secret all these hundreds of years and used the same tactics against the French and Americans.
The Last Samurai is on TV tonight.
Quote from: "Romero"
Quote from: "Zetsu"
Quote from: "Gary Oak"
I can't think of any chinese dynasty that could have defeated the Mongols. The Vietnamese won some battles against them but the Mongols I doubt were ready for the combination of Vietnamese freaks in jungle warfare
The Han, Tang and Ming dynasty were pretty strong and could have defeated them. For the Vietnamese it's not surprising why they won, considering the Mongol army is cavary based it's practically impossible for them to properly fight in a jungle enviroment, using foot soldiers as the only option, which were known as one of the weakest unit in their army.
I recently saw a great show on how the Vietnamese literally wrote the book on jungle guerilla warfare when they were first invaded by the Mongols. They kept the manual secret all these hundreds of years and used the same tactics against the French and Americans.
I don't deny the Vietnamese have some strategy, but they wouldn't stand a chance if have to fight the Mongol cavary in a steppes like enviroment. It's always easier to wait and ambush in a jungle, not to mention Mongol infantry were really weak.
Quote from: "Gary Oak"
The Han and Tang had really huge calvary army that could have defeated the Mongols, while in the beginning of Ming they already have fire arms, rockets and made a huge fleet to explore the world, when I mean huge the capital ship in the Ming fleet was big enough to hold all of Columbus' ship on it's deck.
The Han Tang and Ming armies may have been huge but what was the quality like ? The Mongols quality was good enough to wipe out the high quality knights of Europe. Chinese armies had size but their quality was low. When the foreign powers sent armies up the Tianjin River after the boxer rebellion they were outnumbered 5 to 1 yet out of this vastly outnumbered force the Japanese came out and charged the Chinese line and the Chinese ran. The Japanese were outnumbered possibly 20 to one. The difference between the Mongols of the Han Tang and Ming dynasties is that they weren't united or as expert fighters. The Samurai however trained from childhood in grappling,archery,swordmanship striking and maybe some things that I have overlooked like possibly a fighters psyche. They were complete fighting experts at least at the time of the Mongol invasion. In some later periods some had actually become hardly experts at all. The seven hundred year history of the Samurai made Japan a very unique nation. This Samurai era wasn't exactly a fairy tale paradise, the had the legal right to kill commoners who offended them.
Quote from: "Gary Oak"
The knights in Europe before 1450 were still poor, many of them didn't have full platemail and their forging technology were still inferior to China during the time. For Han and Tang had an amazing army.
Comparing Han Dynasty to Roman Empire...
Hans were superior in metal forging technology, they were already using steel while Romans only had iron
The method of Japanese crafting katanas by folding a sheet of metal around the spine of the sword, the idea originated from China, which already existed during the Han dynasty
China used crossbows with a far more precise trigger mechanism that can also hold a much higher load that is capable of piercing Roman armour or shields from over 500 meters away
Han cavary were at least triple of Roman cavary, while Roman were practically all infantry
Agricultural food production, the average Chinese farmer can produce 4x the ammount of crops compared to Roman famers, this is critical for extending supply lines
Economy was also much better while Romans heavily depended on slaves which was never stable or reliable
While Tang were far stronger than the Han dynasty.
Numbers doesn't necessarily mean superiority. The Romans were very well trained,bigger and stronger. Your statistics sound alot like the kind one got during the cultural revolution or even in the PRC today. As we see in the dollar stores chinese quality is as a rule sorely lacking. If one reads Poorly Made In China by paul Midler it is explained quite well how this culture of poor quality products works. Chinese weapnory wouldn't be free of this culture either. Rome was capable of extending it's empire to India. Was the Chinese economy really so strong ? Then why was there famines in virtually every year in the last 2000 years ? I study was done in the 1030's covering only the documented famines.
But now we are talking about the Yuan dynasty . The knights of Europe were expert fighters and they proved this in the nearly 200 years of crusades. The Knights Templer, The Knights Hospitaller,the Tuetonic Knights amzed the moslems with their fighting ability and fierceness. Chinese fighters are cruel but they seldom ever impressed with their skill. When their numbers were so large that an opponant wouldn't fight back was when they were most successful
Quote from: "Gary Oak"
But now we are talking about the Yuan dynasty . The knights of Europe were expert fighters and they proved this in the nearly 200 years of crusades. The Knights Templer, The Knights Hospitaller,the Tuetonic Knights amzed the moslems with their fighting ability and fierceness. Chinese fighters are cruel but they seldom ever impressed with their skill. When their numbers were so large that an opponant wouldn't fight back was when they were most successful
You can't compare the China today to the one in the past, China as a nation has already lost it's edge since the fall of the Tang dynasty and as centuries pass they only became more and more backwards and socially corrupt. Chinese in the old days were far more civil than the ones we see today, in fact Korean's war culture is heavily influence by the Han dynasty while Japan adopted the social Tang culture, whether it's about the manners, swords crafting, Confucious, etc. Professional historians would say Roman wouldn't be able to defeat the Hans based on the major key factors I've listed previously. Remember the Romans are no match for the Huns nomad that were defeated by the Hans dynasty. While I forgot to mention Roman seige weapons were also inferior to the ones made by Hans, and in war even if Romans were trained better due to their professionalism as a soldier, they wouldn't stand much of a chance from the volley of arrows in a battle from Han crossbowman which the Chinese were very famous for, along with Roman's limited cavalry compared to Han, which are extremely critical units in determining a victory. About famines they've always existed in China, the economy of Han were good, basically all dynasty at the beginning were very strong, but after a few hundred years they eventually falls and breaks apart. Roman were superior in China to in civil engineering and their soldier's professionalism, but the rest I have to give the credit to China.
About knights I duno were they really good, they did lost to the Muslims, and maintaining platemail is just too expensive and impractical in a fullscale war compared to the more cost efficent scale armor used by China. About how tactics used by Han crossbowmen works, they set up 3 line formation of archers, each soldier are trained to reload the crossbow as fast as in less than 7 seconds, with 3 lines it's about less than 3 seconds per volley of fire, most Roman troops wouldn't be able to get near them without being hit, not to mention the arrows used are also poisonous and capable of piercing their armor or shields, this was proven based on some type of physics simulation test by finding out the hardness or Roman armor/shields and the force of Chinese crossbows. It's been proven in history many times a defense formation of archery is superior to melee units charging in, another example is in one of the battles when France bought 5000 knights on horses to fight against the English, the Brits use lowbow archers, 5000 French knights sounds like a huge threat, but when they got anywhere close to the archers only a few hundred French units were left.
In history there was a record about Roman troops encountering Han troops in the past before, the Roman troops were killed by the Hans, but at the same time the Romans were out numbered too. Cause of death were archery.
You can't compare the end of the western Roman empire when the Huns overran it with the Rome of it's heyday. At the end of the western empire Rome was a shadow of it's former self. This is like comparing mainland China's military when Vietnam kicked it's ass with the chinese military of today. Japan adopted alot of it's writing from China and some Confucionism but that's about it. Japan's Samurai culture had nothing to do with any chinese influence. Those same professional chinese historians like Henry Yu also say that Canada's history is all about Chinese peoples experience here, they say that China conquered Russia during Ghengis Khan's illustrious rule , that Taiwan has always been a chinese province, that Tibet,Mongolia and Vietnam historically belonged to China. It would have been an interesting match but i wouldn't write off the Romans so easily. England used long bows successfully against the French who used crossbows [ Argincourt ] and defeated the French consistantly due to the longer range of the longbow which appears to mean that the argument over the crossbows is incorrect.
Quote from: "Gary Oak"
Well it's true the Romans empire was corrupted by then, I don't deny that.
About the Sino Vietnamese war PLA did had high losses when they invaded pass enemy lines filled with booby traps and landminds at the beginning, but after the PLA used armor units and crushed anything opposing them in the way, and during the war China definately didn't have technology of today which was basically 40 years ago cold war technology compared to the 5th generation fighter jets they're making now. Not to mention the Viets were backed up by the Soviets, they would never have stand a chance if they were alone. While casualty ratio were 1 to 10 in the favor of the PLA, it's obvious who's ass got kicked.
For traditional Japanese culture practically everything is from China, from karate(kung fu), architecture, clothing, hairstyle, manners, swords crafting techniques, family values, bushido(basically confucioius teaching) loyalty, dicipline, to even discimination against women, lol.
For about the Roman debate instead of making all these pointless excused, you've failed to provide any logical points or historical facts against my argument. The crossbow law isn't irrelevant, you're comparing longbows to crossbow, before what I mean is melee units(Romans) wouldn't stand a chance against range weaponary(Han), also same for foot soldiers(Roman) are proven to be useless against cavalry(Hans).
Here are the list of Roman vs China strength
Roman
- Soldier's professionalism
Han
- Chemical engineering (tear gas, mustard gas, mercury vapor gas, natural gas mining) later guns, canons, flamethrower, rockets
- Calvary
- Range weaponary
- Siege weapons
- Agricultral production
- Economy
- Blacksmith technology
Quote from: "Zetsu"
Roman
- Soldier's professionalism
Han
- Chemical engineering (tear gas, mustard gas, mercury vapor gas, natural gas mining) later guns, canons, flamethrower, rockets
- Calvary
- Range weaponary
- Siege weapons
- Agricultral production
- Economy
- Blacksmith technology
That all looks good in print however The Han Tang and Ming had mustard gas ? Mercury vapor gas in large quantities ? Natural gas mining yet they have the worlds worst mining record today ? These dynasties had tear gas ? They had great agriculture and economy but yet had yearly famines ? Chinese soldiers have always been great when they so vastly outnumber their enemy that their enemy was afraid to fight back. Did they really have such great blacksmith technology yet even with todays technology Chinese quality fade persists in all industries. and you comment that Chinese killed 10 to 1 in the Chinese Vietnamese war. As if, do you get your statistics from the PRC ? Actual deaths were about equal. The Russians kept the Vietnamese from losing ? As if ? How many Russians died fighting there. You must have gotten your facts from PRC textbooks. Karate developed completely independant of Kung Fu. The Soldiers in the northern frontiers against the natives is genesis of the Samurai and their training had nothing to do with China or Kung Fu. Karate and Kung Fu are so different from each other that this argument holds no water at all. How do you know that Japanese chauvanism came from China and not Korea ? [ which Chinese have decided are a minority of China as they have Vietnamese,Mongolians Tibetans etc... ]
The Roman shields were very effective against arrows and Roman siege weapons were just as advanced if not better. No it's your facts that you appear to have either dreamed up or have read from a PRC propaganda manual
Korea,Vietnam,Japan etc.. all older and specific civilizations than China. China's Borders changing as well as its conquered peoples constantly shifting.
China is a hodge podge of peoples,of non-homogeous origins. Am I wrong here. Arguably civilization stemmed east+west from Oceania so say geneticists researching the peoples of the South Pacific Islands. They say that the Caucasian race stems from there.
Probably this post should be on another thread..hmmm
scuse me folks
just sayin
Quote from: "Gary Oak"
Quote from: "Zetsu"
Roman
- Soldier's professionalism
Han
- Chemical engineering (tear gas, mustard gas, mercury vapor gas, natural gas mining) later guns, canons, flamethrower, rockets
- Calvary
- Range weaponary
- Siege weapons
- Agricultral production
- Economy
- Blacksmith technology
That all looks good in print howeverThe Han Tang and Ming had mustard gas ? Mercury vapor gas in large quantities ? Natural gas mining yet they have the worlds worst mining record today ? These dynasties had tear gas ? They had great agriculture and economy but yet had yearly famines ? Chinese soldiers have alwasy been great when they so vastly outnumber their enemy that their enemy was afraid to fight back. Did they really have such great blacksmith technology yet even with todays technology Chinese quality fade persists in all industries. and you comment that Chinese killed 10 to 1 in the Chinese Vietnamese war. As if, do you get your statistics from the PRC ? Actual deaths were about equal. The Russians kept the Vietnamese from losing ? As if ? How many Russians died fighting there. You must have gotten your facts from PRC textbooks.
*sigh* Your arguments are only getting weaker, using the "developing" china today as an excuse to compare to Han dynasty is not only lame and illogical, but amazingly stupid. And from wiki states famines in China only come around every 200 years, not yearly. Yes, China did have tear gas and mustard gas in warfare. Yes, Han's alchemy was superior to Romes. When did I've ever said Russians fought in Vietnam, I said they back up by supplying war equiptment and providing satalite survailance. For casualty ratio my sources are not from PRC but from wiki, not to mention China had inferior numbers compared to the Viets along with the disadvantage having to enter into territory with enemies hiding and waiting to ambush in the jungle. So far you've only been posting illogical simple sentense without backing up any of your claims and just don't want to accept the facts.
Edit
Yes, Karate is just a copied and improved version of Kung fu, everyone knows that. For discrimination againts women in Japan it was heavily influence by Confucius teachings, Japan culturally copied everything from Tang, while they never bothered with Korea. Han crossbows have no problem penetrating Roman shields so your argument is pointless, and Roman seige also had inferior ranges to Hans.
The Han dynasty of 2,000 years ago was more advanced than the China of the Communist era...ya ...ok... your arguments are becoming comedic. From the sounds of things these ancient Han soldiers could fly too
Quote from: "Gary Oak"
Are you really that stupid? Tell me what does modern technology has to do with ancient technology?
So far I've countered all your bullshit Gary, yet you still continue to argue with simple lame child like sentences rather than providing any sources to back up your claims
Quote from: "Zetsu"Quote from: "Gary Oak"
You can't compare the China today to the one in the past, China as a nation has already lost it's edge since the fall of the Tang dynasty and as centuries pass they only became more and more backwards and socially corrupt. Chinese in the old days were far more civil than the ones we see today,
So you are trying to tell me that Chinese being hopelessly sycophantic and currupt is just a recent phenomenom ? As if
Quote from: "Gary Oak"
Quote from: "Zetsu"
Quote from: "Gary Oak"
You can't compare the China today to the one in the past, China as a nation has already lost it's edge since the fall of the Tang dynasty and as centuries pass they only became more and more backwards and socially corrupt. Chinese in the old days were far more civil than the ones we see today,
So you are trying to tell me that Chinese being hopelessly sycophantic and currupt is just a recent phenomenom ? As if
No, if you've ever bother to educate yourself you'll realize Chinese history starts to decline after the fall of the Tang dynasty.
Here Gary, read this forum about Roman vs Han, even all the intelligent and educated European members there believe Han will beat the Romans.
http://www.historum.com/games/42989-roman-empire-vs-han-dynasty.html
Quote from: "Zetsu"
You have countered with BS. For example ;Romans used their rectangular shields to block arrows as they moved closer and as I mentioned earlier that long bows have greater range than cross bows and this is why the Brits consistantly defeated the French. You really don't know much of European history do you or the Romans. Are you going to tell me that China conquered Russia too ? You know your king Ghengis Khan ?
Here's another Rome vs Han thread in the same forum, as usual you can see the uneducated, bias and stupid Roman fans getting humiliated by the scholars and historians.
http://www.historum.com/games/44519-roman-empire-vs-han-china.html
If these posters are not chinese then how well do these people posting understand China ? If they are Chinese then welll.....you know... CHina great foreigners are evil and bad but please let me live in your country as it is so much better than China
Brilliant :lol: Here is what I said. Now thanks for asking for proof. As I have posted many times. When a chinese guy asks for proof he merely knows that he is wrong and thnks that all white people are too stupid to understand how decietful and sly chinese guys are and too morally superior to believe it. Not all white guys are like Romero.
Quote from: "Gary Oak"
Quote from: "Zetsu"
You have countered with BS. For example ;Romans used their rectangular shields to block arrows as they moved closer and as I mentioned earlier that long bows have greater range than cross bows and this is why the Brits consistantly defeated the French. You really don't know much of European history do you or the Romans. Are you going to tell me that China conquered Russia too ? You know your king Ghengis Khan ?
Then counter it with logic instead of just whining.
So what does this has against the Han crossbow's superiority over Roman legionary soldiers?
Quote from: "Gary Oak"
Do you have proof they're Chinese instead of just spewing more childish nonsense?
I have told you already that the rectangular shields worked very effectively against arrows. You really know nothing about the Romans do you ? I was fascinated with the Roman empire when I was a boy so I do know this topic quite well.
Quote from: "Zetsu"
Do you have proof they're Chinese?
You didn't post the entire post ...very sly...naturally ... but BRILLIANT :lol: Here is yet another example of what I have posted many times. When a chinese guy says " DO YOU HAVE PROOF ?" this just means that he knows it's true and is trying to be clever thinking that white people are too stupid to understand them and too morally superior to believe it.
Quote from: "Gary Oak"
Brilliant :lol: Here is what I said. Now thanks for asking for proof. As I have posted many times. When a chinese guy asks for proof he merely knows that he is wrong and thnks that all white people are too stupid to understand how decietful and sly chinese guys are and too morally superior to believe it. Not all white guys are like Romero.
Here is what I really posted :lol:
Quote from: "Gary Oak"
Quote from: "Gary Oak"
Brilliant :lol: Here is what I said. Now thanks for asking for proof. As I have posted many times. When a chinese guy asks for proof he merely knows that he is wrong and thnks that all white people are too stupid to understand how decietful and sly chinese guys are and too morally superior to believe it. Not all white guys are like Romero.
Here is what I really posted :lol:
Quote from: "Gary Oak"
Quote from: "Zetsu"
Do you have proof they're Chinese?
You didn't post the entire post ...very sly...naturally ... but BRILLIANT :lol: Here is yet another example of what I have posted many times. When a chinese guy says " DO YOU HAVE PROOF ?" this just means that he knows it's true and is trying to be clever thinking that white people are too stupid to understand them and too morally superior to believe it.
I'm asking for proof Gary, not bullshit.
Quote from: "Gary Oak"
but that doesn't mean they're effective against Han crossbows...
Hard history already showed that using winched arbalests against Romans would be somewhat of an overkill. This is because we can see that Parthian bows used for cavalry archers (likely no more than 60 lbs) could already tear through Roman shields at close range. Han crossbows of 387 lbs should be not a problem: Thus many died, and the survivors also were incapacitated for fighting. And when Publius urged them to charge the enemy's mail-clad horsemen, they showed him that their hands were riveted to their shields and their feet nailed through and through to the ground, so that they were helpless either for flight or for self-defence. -Plutarch"
By HackneyedScribe
http://www.historum.com/games/44519-roman-empire-vs-han-china-8.html
My husband would have an interest in this topic.
I don't have anything to contribute though...sorry.
:(
That's ok Fashionsta, you shouldn't have to say sorry.
Quote from: "Zetsu"
Nice to meet you Zetsu and thank you.
A lot of the youths in China today aren't much interested in their history anymore, but then it's always better to focus on current matters than cling onto past glory.
if you don't know your history you are destined to repeat your past fate. How can you appreciate your future if you don't know your past...I disagree. Those that do know make for sound decisions and better leaders later..thereby putting beter quality food on the table.
It's amazing how few Canadians know Canadian history.
Quote from: "Zetsu"
Quote from: "Gary Oak"
Quote from: "Gary Oak"
Brilliant :lol: Here is what I said. Now thanks for asking for proof. As I have posted many times. When a chinese guy asks for proof he merely knows that he is wrong and thnks that all white people are too stupid to understand how decietful and sly chinese guys are and too morally superior to believe it. Not all white guys are like Romero.
Here is what I really posted :lol:
Quote from: "Gary Oak"
Quote from: "Zetsu"
Do you have proof they're Chinese?
You didn't post the entire post ...very sly...naturally ... but BRILLIANT :lol: Here is yet another example of what I have posted many times. When a chinese guy says " DO YOU HAVE PROOF ?" this just means that he knows it's true and is trying to be clever thinking that white people are too stupid to understand them and too morally superior to believe it.
I'm asking for proof Gary, not bullshit.
None of this I posted is bullshit and you know it
Gary a little less poking fun of Zetsu. it only causes like responses. I say this in all humility as I know as do many others that we all could use this advise. On this thread tread sensitively allowing for mutual respect, same for Zetsu too.
our society is in decline when we cant talk of sensitive matters without raising the others ire. Social decorum is waning , and as Shen Li pointed out we are in bad shape when we don't know classic history, Canadian history at that. Grammar and communication skills are out the window today.Tempers flare when one cant express ones feelings.
It doesn't help with the music industry glamourising black ghetto crackgang ebonics as being trendy,cool as if that's an on the ball exciting wild west lifestyle.
no it doesn't, agreed. I consider it the enemy in most of our decline too.But who has raised it to to this level, politicians, right. A liberal society gone wrong. We are out of sync and need to crawl back, it wont be easy but it must happen from society demanding change as the politicians wont be there for us..they aren't acting in your best interests. Yes they are social engineers but want you kept stupid. Private learning school and home schooling is the best answer so far.
Quote from: "Gary Oak"
Quote from: "Zetsu"
Quote from: "Gary Oak"
Here is what I really posted :lol:
Quote from: "Gary Oak"
You didn't post the entire post ...very sly...naturally ... but BRILLIANT :lol: Here is yet another example of what I have posted many times. When a chinese guy says " DO YOU HAVE PROOF ?" this just means that he knows it's true and is trying to be clever thinking that white people are too stupid to understand them and too morally superior to believe it.
I'm asking for proof Gary, not bullshit.
None of this I posted is bullshit and you know it
Racist bullshit are not proof Gary, maybe some Chinese people ack like that, but I don't.
I'm racist for posting the truth ? Why don't you tell the forum the truth about precise meaning of QWAILO , LOFAN .HAK KWAI,HONG FAN and FAN QING FU MING ?
Quote from: "Gary Oak"
I agree it's racist to call people with inappropriate nicknames, but using racism to support your claims in a debate is just naive.
Don't get the wrong idea Gary, I also believe in racism based on facts, but I would never use it in an argument.
All I did was mention if you are actually concerned with the truth then you could start with telling the truth on what those commonly used terms mean.
Rome didn't have advanced seige machines ? That's not the truth. They had wheeled towers that were shielded. Their catapults where as advanced as they came for their day. They had giant high powered crossbow like weapons for shooting giant spear like projectiles. This is just some of the stuff that I can still clearly remember from when I was a boy.
Quote from: "seoulbro"
This is an interesting comment that you made Seoulbro. Now explain how you came to this conclusion. Do you just come to insulting conclusion without any thought whatsoever ? Are you just insulting because it makes you feel like you must be better ?
Quote from: "Gary Oak"
Rome didn't have advanced seige machines ? That's not the truth. They had wheeled towers that were shielded. Their catapults where as advanced as they came for their day. They had giant high powered crossbow like weapons for shooting giant spear like projectiles. This is just some of the stuff that I can still clearly remember from when I was a boy.
I never said they were not advance Gary, in fact the Roman catapult is more complicated, but they were still out matched compared to the ones use by the Han dynasty in terms of performance, load capacity and range.
I always find the Romans to be over estimated due to their luck of having only to fight barbarians that are weaker than the ones in Asia. Here's a quote written from a pro in the historum forum.
"That the steppe nomadic cavalry has been an indisputably greater fighting force than the hoardes of Goths, Vandals, Visigoths, Celts, etc. is established by their track records and analysis of battle methods: Almost all Roman sources potray their barbarian adversaries as predominantly infantry forces, who were disjointed, while almost all Chinese, Indian and Persian records show central Asian barbarians to be highly organized cavalry forces"
By Lord_of_Gauda
http://www.historum.com/games/44519-roman-empire-vs-han-china-9.html
Quote from: "seoulbro"
Welcome seoulbro, but it was not very nice to insult Gary that way.
Who cares. Is there any actual substance to his insult ? No Now if one was to look so critically at him it is unlikely that one would have to look very long to see a load of @#$%
Quote from: "Zetsu"
"That the steppe nomadic cavalry has been an indisputably greater fighting force than the hoardes of Goths, Vandals, Visigoths, Celts, etc. is established by their track records and analysis of battle methods: Almost all Roman sources potray their barbarian adversaries as predominantly infantry forces, who were disjointed, while almost all Chinese, Indian and Persian records show central Asian barbarians to be highly organized cavalry forces"
By Lord_of_Gauda
http://www.historum.com/games/44519-roman-empire-vs-han-china-9.html
The Greeks including the Spartans weaker than the barbarians of Asia ? As if. The armiy Carthage ? Egypt The Picts ? I don't think so. The only time the Mongols were united was in Ghengis Khans day and the Yuan dynasty. Once the Yuan dynasty ended they went their merry way again.
Quote from: "Gary Oak"
Quote from: "Zetsu"
"That the steppe nomadic cavalry has been an indisputably greater fighting force than the hoardes of Goths, Vandals, Visigoths, Celts, etc. is established by their track records and analysis of battle methods: Almost all Roman sources potray their barbarian adversaries as predominantly infantry forces, who were disjointed, while almost all Chinese, Indian and Persian records show central Asian barbarians to be highly organized cavalry forces"
By Lord_of_Gauda
http://www.historum.com/games/44519-roman-empire-vs-han-china-9.html
The Greeks including the Spartans weaker than the barbarians of Asia ? As if. The armiy Carthage ? Egypt The Picts ? I don't think so. The only time the Mongols were united was in Ghengis Khans day and the Yuan dynasty. Once the Yuan dynasty ended they went their merry way again.
Yes, when the Huns invaded mainland Greece in 447AD they've dealt devastating damage to the north, and conqured southwards as far as Thermopylae.
You might want to learn more about the Hun army under Attila(nicknamed Scourge of God) that invaded Europe
Quote
FLAGELLUM DEI (LATIN: SCOURGE OF GOD), king of the Huns from 434 to 453 (ruling jointly with his elder brother Bleda until 445). He was one of the greatest of the barbarian rulers who assailed the Roman Empire, invading the southern Balkan provinces and Greece and then Gaul and Italy. In legend he appears under the name Etzel in the Nibelungenlied and under the name Atli in Icelandic sagas.
ATTILA (406?-453).
By the 5th century the Huns ruled a large empire. The Western Roman Empire had almost totally disintegrated. The Eastern, or Byzantine, Empire, which had its capital at Constantinople (now Istanbul, Turkey), was much stronger than its counterpart to the west. But it had extended its boundaries over too wide an area to stop an invasion at any one point. To keep from being attacked, the Eastern emperor paid an annual tribute to the Huns. The emperor's failure to keep up payments led Attila to invade the Byzantine Empire in two campaigns, in 441-443 and in 447-449. Much of what is now the Balkan region was devastated. The empire lost territory and had to pay a larger tribute.
In 450 Attila claimed Honoria, sister of the Western emperor, Valentinian III, as his wife. As a dowry he expected half of the Western Empire. To enforce this claim, Attila invaded Gaul (France) in 451. He was defeated and forced to withdraw. In 452 he overran much of northern Italy but turned back before attacking Rome. His next plan was to lead another invasion of the Byzantine Empire, but he died suddenly after celebrating the last of his marriages. He was succeeded by his sons, who divided his empire.
AD 445: Attila the Hun
The most famous of the Huns, Attila assumed full power over his people when he murdered his brother Bleda in 445. Before that, he had shared power with Bleda for 11 years, following the death of their uncle Rugila. The fear that Attila inspired earned him the appellation Scourge of God.
The Western Roman Empire was slowly disintegrating when the Huns under Bleda and Attila negotiated peace with the Eastern Empire. The emperor promised to pay 700 pounds of gold each year to the Huns as payment for not attacking the Eastern Empire. When the emperor missed some of his payments, Attila invaded the empire, once from 441 to 443 and again from 447 to 449. Much of the region was devastated, and the emperor was forced to increase his tribute.
Attila's only military defeat occurred during his invasion of Gaul (modern France) in 451. Following that, he invaded much of Italy and planned to reconquer the Eastern Empire. Attila died in his sleep in 453, however, before he could accomplish his plan. The men who buried him and his treasures were put to death so that his burial place would remain unknown.
Attacks on the Eastern Empire.
The empire that Attila and his elder brother Bleda inherited seems to have stretched from the Alps and the Baltic in the west to somewhere near the Caspian Sea in the east. Their first known action on becoming joint rulers was the negotiation of a peace treaty with the Eastern Roman Empire, which was concluded at the city of Margus (Pozarevac). By the terms of the treaty the Romans undertook to double the subsidies they had been paying to the Huns and in future to pay 700 pounds (300 kilograms) of gold each year.
From 435 to 439 the activities of Attila are unknown, but he seems to have been engaged in subduing barbarian peoples to the north or east of his dominions. The Eastern Romans do not appear to have paid the sums stipulated in the treaty of Margus, and so in 441, when their forces were occupied in the west and on the eastern frontier, Attila launched a heavy assault on the Danubian frontier of the Eastern Empire. He captured and razed a number of important cities, including Singidunum (Belgrade). The Eastern Romans managed to arrange a truce for the year 442 and recalled their forces from the West. But in 443 Attila resumed his attack. He began by taking and destroying towns on the Danube and then drove into the interior of the empire toward Naissus (Nis) and Serdica (Sofia), both of which he destroyed. He next turned toward Constantinople, took Philippopolis, defeated the main Eastern Roman forces in a succession of battles, and so reached the sea both north and south of Constantinople. It was hopeless for the Hun archers to attack the great walls of the capital; so Attila turned on the remnants of the empire's forces, which had withdrawn into the peninsula of Gallipoli, and destroyed them. In the peace treaty that followed, he obliged the Eastern Empire to pay the arrears of tribute, which he calculated at 6,000 pounds of gold, and he trebled the annual tribute, henceforth extorting 2,100 pounds of gold each year.
Attila's movements after the conclusion of peace in the autumn of 443 are unknown. About 445 he murdered his brother Bleda and thenceforth ruled the Huns as an autocrat. He made his second great attack on the Eastern Roman Empire in 447, but little is known of the details of the campaign. It was planned on an even bigger scale than that of 441-443, and its main weight was directed toward the provinces of Lower Scythia and Moesia in southeastern Europe--i.e., farther to the east than the earlier assault. He engaged the Eastern Empire's forces on the Utus (Vid) River and defeated them, but he himself suffered serious losses. He then devastated the Balkan provinces and drove southward into Greece, where he was only stopped at Thermopylae. The three years following the invasion were filled with complicated negotiations between Attila and the diplomats of the Eastern Roman emperor Theodosius II. Much information about these diplomatic encounters has been preserved in the fragments of the History of Priscus of Panium, who visited Attila's headquarters in Walachia in company with a Roman embassy in 449. The treaty by which the war was terminated was harsher than that of 443; the Eastern Romans had to evacuate a wide belt of territory south of the Danube, and the tribute payable by them was continued, though the rate is not known.
Invasion of Gaul.
Attila's next great campaign was the invasion of Gaul in 451. Hitherto, he appears to have been on friendly terms with the Roman general Aetius, the real ruler of the West at this time, and his motives for marching into Gaul have not been recorded. He announced that his objective in the West was the kingdom of the Visigoths (a Germanic people who had conquered parts of the two Roman empires) centred on Tolosa (Toulouse) and that he had no quarrel with the Western emperor, Valentinian III. But in the spring of 450, Honoria, the Emperor's sister, sent her ring to Attila, asking him to rescue her from a marriage that had been arranged for her. Attila thereupon claimed Honoria as his wife and demanded half the Western Empire as her dowry. When Attila had already entered Gaul, Aetius reached an agreement with the Visigothic king, Theodoric I, to combine their forces in resisting the Huns. Many legends surround the campaign that followed. It is certain, however, that Attila almost succeeded in occupying Aurelianum (Orléans) before the allies arrived. Indeed, the Huns had already gained a footing inside the city when Aetius and Theodoric forced them to withdraw. The decisive engagement was the Battle of the Catalaunian Plains, or, according to some authorities, of Maurica (both places are unidentified). After fierce fighting, in which the Visigothic king was killed, Attila withdrew and shortly afterward retired from Gaul. This was his first and only defeat.
In 452 the Huns invaded Italy and sacked several cities, including Aquileia, Patavium (Padua), Verona, Brixia (Brescia), Bergomum (Bergamo), and Mediolanum (Milan); Aetius could do nothing to halt them. But the famine and pestilence raging in Italy in that year compelled the Huns to leave without crossing the Apennines.
In 453 Attila was intending to attack the Eastern Empire, where the new emperor Marcian had refused to pay the subsidies agreed upon by his predecessor, Theodosius II. But during the night following his marriage, Attila died in his sleep. Those who buried him and his treasures were subsequently put to death by the Huns so that his grave might never be discovered. He was succeeded by his sons, who divided his empire among them.
Priscus, who saw Attila when he visited his camp in 448, described him as a short, squat man with a large head, deep-set eyes, flat nose, and a thin beard. According to the historians, Attila was, though of an irritable, blustering, and truculent disposition, a very persistent negotiator and by no means pitiless. When Priscus attended a banquet given by him, he noticed that Attila was served off wooden plates and ate only meat, whereas his chief lieutenants dined off silver platters loaded with dainties. No description of his qualities as a general survives, but his successes before the invasion of Gaul show him to have been an outstanding commander.
http://history-world.org/attila.htm
Quote from: "Gary Oak"
I care and wonder why a new poster would choose an insult to make a first impression.
It's not just you either, seoulbro was rude to Shen Li.
http://www.thebiographychannel.co.uk/biographies/attila-the-hun.html
Now that is a very interesting article. I knew some of it. Now as it is taught in China's schools that China conquered Russia citing Ghengis Khans empire as theirs isn't quite how it happened. Now it appears that you are claiming Attila's invasion being a Chinese invasion. Attila was born in Hungary. That's about as Asian as Times Square.
Quote from: "Gary Oak"
Now that is a very interesting article. I knew some of it. Now as it is taught in China's schools that China conquered Russia citing Ghengis Khans empire as theirs isn't quite how it happened. Now it appears that you are claiming Attila's invasion being a Chinese invasion. Attila was born in Hungary. That's about as Asian as Times Square.
Did I ever said China conquered Russia or Attila's invasion was Chinese? Does it matter were he was born when the whole Hun tribe fled from the Chinese after the war and migrated to Europe, though your lame excuse to intentionally mislead others by claiming he wasn't an Asian barbarian was a nice try dumbass.
Anyways there's no record of his birthplace unless you can provide some sources, just b/c he establish his empire around Hungary doesn't mean he was born there, Asian nomads have always been known to be a migrating race.
Quote from: "Zetsu"
Quote from: "Gary Oak"
Now that is a very interesting article. I knew some of it. Now as it is taught in China's schools that China conquered Russia citing Ghengis Khans empire as theirs isn't quite how it happened. Now it appears that you are claiming Attila's invasion being a Chinese invasion. Attila was born in Hungary. That's about as Asian as Times Square.
Did I ever said China conquered Russia or Attila's invasion was Chinese? Umm, he was born in Hungary b/c the whole Hun tribe fled from the Chinese after the war and migrated to Europe, though your lame excuse to intentionally mislead others claim he wasn't an Asian barbarian was a nice try dumbass.
I wish my husband would read this topic.
Both of you have contributed some good information from good sources.
I just wish you would be nicer to each other.
Sorry Fashionista, I'll try to be nicer to Gary.
Quote from: "Zetsu"
No need for Gary or yoursef to apologize.
Both of you have made valid points, but the insults distract from the substance of your posts.
Attila the Hun was from Scythia, in what is now southern Russia. Okay okay Russia is an integral part of China and anybody who disagrees is guilty of splittism actually Canada has let Chinese in too therefor Canada is Chinese as well. IF he was a Xiongnu then they also easily raided China just as easily if not more easily than they raided Europe.
http://asianhistory.about.com/od/profilesofasianleaders/p/AttilaProf.htm
Quote from: "Gary Oak"
http://asianhistory.about.com/od/profilesofasianleaders/p/AttilaProf.htm
Pure bullshit, cept for the fact that is their original lands were now taken over by Russians.
Ya ok, professor , don't let the facts get in the way of your what you want to believe
Quote from: "Gary Oak"
Gary, that wasn't very nice.
Both of you boys have good arguments, but it is being diluted with insults.
Quote from: "Gary Oak"
You might want to take your own advice instead of spamming your usual lame racist bullshit and claiming them as facts.
Quote from: "Gary Oak"
http://asianhistory.about.com/od/profilesofasianleaders/p/AttilaProf.htm
Oh ya, sure...the writer of this article and anyone else who doesn't tow the chinese supremist line also are are writing lame racist bullshit. Seeing as Canadians are so horrible and why is it that Chinese want to come here more than anywhere else ?
and a Hong Konger trying to call anybody a racist is laughable. I speak chinese as you know
Thank you for proving my point, not only you're very racist, but amazingly stupid and pitiful as well.
As I said before
Quote from: "Gary Oak"
Quote from: "Gary Oak"
http://asianhistory.about.com/od/profilesofasianleaders/p/AttilaProf.htm
Oh ya, sure...the writer of this article and anyone else who doesn't tow the chinese supremist line also are are writing lame racist bullshit. Seeing as Canadians are so horrible and why is it that Chinese want to come here more than anywhere else ?
and a Hong Konger trying to call anybody a racist is laughable. I speak chinese as you know
As I've said before
Quote from: "Zetsu"
That's easy to fling insults but stupid ? That implies lacking knowledge and perhaps a low IQ. Well my IQ is above average which by the odds of things is higher than yours and I have read near 200 non fiction books in the last 20 years on various topics therefor my knowledge level isn't so low either. There are a number of topics that I know quite well. Now can you say the same ? I doubt it. I was best man for two weddings in Hong Kong. One of those two fellows controls 30 ships in the British merchant navy. I doubt that he considers me pathetic. Now what have you ever done in your life ?
They're facts Gary, not insults. What's the point of reading all those children's book when you can still only come up with misinformed bullshit, it's not surpising you have the time considering you're just some uneducated bum in Hong Kong working as a bouncer in some disco.
For me I was award as the top cross country runner and swimmer in my school and competed in many other tournaments. Now my eldest brother and I are responsible for running and expanding a company in Hong Kong with over 900 employees.
Quote from: "seoulbro"
Quote from: "Zetsu"
For me I was award as the top cross country runner and swimmer in my school and competed in many other tournaments.
Maybe you can help out the unfortunate and offer Gary a job scrubbing shitters at your facility. Don't offer him a security job though because anyone can kick his ass and rob your facility blind.
Haha there's no point when he'll just end up fired on the first day.
Chinese fighters are the most cowardly bunch of fags in the world. I broke the nose of the mainland China champion and he cowarded 4 times in the last 2 minute round. It was probably on national television too. So in Hong Kong I wouldn't have to worry much.As for working for a Chinese employer ...I don't think so ? At least your back in Hong Kong backstabbing your countrymen instead of Canadian....well at least not as much.
As for Seaulbro, are you some freaky white guy who lived in Korea for a few months teaching ESL and now thinks that this makes you an expert on Asia ?
Well maybe one day your English will be good enough to teach then.
Quote from: "Gary Oak"
Backstabbing my own peole for hiring them? Sounds like only a jealous loser with a crap job would say that, lol.
Oh wow you beat some Chinese guy, good for you. I've also defeated other Brits before, they were at least twice my strength and a head taller than me, yet they became instant pussies from just taking one of my punches.
Quote from: "Zetsu"
Quote from: "Gary Oak"
Backstabbing my own peole for hiring them? Sounds like only a jealous loser with a crap job would say that, lol.
Oh wow you beat some Chinese guy, good for you. I've also defeated other Brits before, they were at least twice my strength and a head taller than me, yet they became instant pussies from just taking one of my punches.
As if, how many friends were with you. A chinese guy would never face a British guy one to one in Hong Kong. I can see you having a measure of success fighting a British girl though :lol:
Quote from: "seoulbro"
Quote from: "Zetsu"
Quote from: "Gary Oak"
Backstabbing my own peole for hiring them? Sounds like only a jealous loser with a crap job would say that, lol.
Oh wow you beat some Chinese guy, good for you. I've also defeated other Brits before, they were at least twice my strength and a head taller than me, yet they became instant pussies from just taking one of my punches.
You don't believe that junkie's hallcuinations do you? If you want to see his 'moves', download Bum Fight's and watch Gary struggle with a fellow skid for a bottle of hand sanitizer.
He always claims he competes with other MA fighters in China, but you are right again Seoulbro. Duno why did I bought into this crap in my last post when he freaks out like a little girl from just being punch in the head with a pair of rigged knuckle coined gloves.
Quote from: "Gary Oak"
Quote from: "Zetsu"
Quote from: "Gary Oak"
Backstabbing my own peole for hiring them? Sounds like only a jealous loser with a crap job would say that, lol.
Oh wow you beat some Chinese guy, good for you. I've also defeated other Brits before, they were at least twice my strength and a head taller than me, yet they became instant pussies from just taking one of my punches.
As if, how many friends were with you. A chinese guy would never face a British guy one to one in Hong Kong. I can see you having a measure of success fighting a British girl though :lol:
Lol you've just described yourself perfectly.
Actually they pack the gloves with iron ballbearings. you know those cops most likely have friends and family in Canada too if they don't themselves have citizenship. This would have been a glorious vistory for them if the british cops didn't find out what they did. What a joke. They must have looked so stupid. It is a telling reality that Chinese as a whole cheer a victory against the people who let them in a country like this.
Quote from: "Gary Oak"
Yet you still freaked out like a little girl from being punched :lol:
Quote from: "Zetsu"
Quote from: "Gary Oak"
Yet you still freaked out like a little girl from being punched :lol:
Hardly, he was trying not to cry while were waiting for the decision that he knew he didn't deserve and he had a black eye. I mean gloves packed with iron ballbearing is a lethal weapon and i still kicked his ass in front of 200 British HKPD. Now do you really think that they could fool the British HKPD ? Does anybody really think that the British HKPD doesn't understand these guys. But this is a prime example of what happens when Chinese take over a place. They turn on you. They will always be able to find a justification for their backstabbing. The British gave them everything and yet they were so commited to backstabbing them every chance they had. I met the highest ranking chinese army officer in the Hong Kong Chinese Army in one of my surprise meetings with the Wo Shing Yi dragonhead. Now this guy probably has Canadian citizenship. He is a triad. It's no wonder that the British weren't stupid enough to trust these people. Just remember that when Japan invaded the Hong Kong's disloyal Chinese helped the Japanese by sabataging British Army vehicles etc... in preparation for Japans invasion. So does any Canadian really believe that Chinese Canadiscams aren't supporting Chinas efforts against Canada ?
Quote from: "Gary Oak"
Quote from: "Zetsu"
Quote from: "Gary Oak"
Yet you still freaked out like a little girl from being punched :lol:
Hardly, he was trying not to cry while were waiting for the decision that he knew he didn't deserve and he had a black eye. I mean gloves packed with iron ballbearing is a lethal weapon and i still kicked his ass in front of 200 British HKPD. Now do you really think that they could fool the British HKPD ? Does anybody really think that the British HKPD doesn't understand these guys. But this is a prime example of what happens when Chinese take over a place. They turn on you. They will always be able to find a justification for their backstabbing. The British gave them everything and yet they were so commited to backstabbing them every chance they had. I met the highest ranking chinese army officer in the Hong Kong Chinese Army in one of my surprise meetings with the Wo Shing Yi dragonhead. Now this guy probably has Canadian citizenship. He is a triad. It's no wonder that the British weren't stupid enough to trust these people. Just remember that when Japan invaded the Hong Kong's disloyal Chinese helped the Japanese by sabataging British Army vehicles etc... in preparation for Japans invasion. So does any Canadian really believe that Chinese Canadiscams aren't supporting Chinas efforts against Canada ?
These kind of stuff happens everywhere, not just in HK. For example the Chinese government allows racists like you into their country was also a grave mistake.
Quote from: "seoulbro"
Quote from: "Zetsu"
Quote from: "Gary Oak"
Hardly, he was trying not to cry while were waiting for the decision that he knew he didn't deserve and he had a black eye. I mean gloves packed with iron ballbearing is a lethal weapon and i still kicked his ass in front of 200 British HKPD. Now do you really think that they could fool the British HKPD ? Does anybody really think that the British HKPD doesn't understand these guys. But this is a prime example of what happens when Chinese take over a place. They turn on you. They will always be able to find a justification for their backstabbing. The British gave them everything and yet they were so commited to backstabbing them every chance they had. I met the highest ranking chinese army officer in the Hong Kong Chinese Army in one of my surprise meetings with the Wo Shing Yi dragonhead. Now this guy probably has Canadian citizenship. He is a triad. It's no wonder that the British weren't stupid enough to trust these people. Just remember that when Japan invaded the Hong Kong's disloyal Chinese helped the Japanese by sabataging British Army vehicles etc... in preparation for Japans invasion. So does any Canadian really believe that Chinese Canadiscams aren't supporting Chinas efforts against Canada ?
These kind of stuff happens everywhere, not just in HK. For example the Chinese government allows racists like you into their country was also a grave mistake.
I wonder if they would consider taking him back? If he is still there, would they consider keeping him? It would be the most generous good will gesture any country has ever made.
Lol I doubt Canada or the UK would want him back either since he probably has a criminal background now, can't think of anything he can do asides from whining and spewing more racist BS from his rear end.
Quote from: "seoulbro"
Quote from: "Zetsu"
Quote from: "Gary Oak"
Hardly, he was trying not to cry while were waiting for the decision that he knew he didn't deserve and he had a black eye. I mean gloves packed with iron ballbearing is a lethal weapon and i still kicked his ass in front of 200 British HKPD. Now do you really think that they could fool the British HKPD ? Does anybody really think that the British HKPD doesn't understand these guys. But this is a prime example of what happens when Chinese take over a place. They turn on you. They will always be able to find a justification for their backstabbing. The British gave them everything and yet they were so commited to backstabbing them every chance they had. I met the highest ranking chinese army officer in the Hong Kong Chinese Army in one of my surprise meetings with the Wo Shing Yi dragonhead. Now this guy probably has Canadian citizenship. He is a triad. It's no wonder that the British weren't stupid enough to trust these people. Just remember that when Japan invaded the Hong Kong's disloyal Chinese helped the Japanese by sabataging British Army vehicles etc... in preparation for Japans invasion. So does any Canadian really believe that Chinese Canadiscams aren't supporting Chinas efforts against Canada ?
These kind of stuff happens everywhere, not just in HK. For example the Chinese government allows racists like you into their country was also a grave mistake.
I wonder if they would consider taking him back? If he is still there, would they consider keeping him? It would be the most generous good will gesture any country has ever made.
Actually when I first arrived I saw chinese through rose coloured glasses but as you are well aware ...most of you believe that you must get your backstabs in before other of your compatriots do and whoever it is wakes up and sees you for how you really are.. I was so naive there are people who remember me saying "let them all come " Well you traitor monkeys clued me in very effectively as everyone can see :lol: Now reap the rewards. Everywhere I go people also get clued in. This also is indicative of one of your tactics. Get as many CHinese in before Canadians realise what they have done to their country. This goes for all nations that allow large scale Chinese immigration
Quote from: "Zetsu"
For me I was award as the top cross country runner and swimmer in my school and competed in many other tournaments. Now my eldest brother and I are responsible for running and expanding a company in Hong Kong with over 900 employees.
My goodness, I didn't know we had a tycoon on our little forum.
Shen Li must not know about your wealth Zetsu, otherwise she would begging for your hand in marriage.
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "Zetsu"
For me I was award as the top cross country runner and swimmer in my school and competed in many other tournaments. Now my eldest brother and I are responsible for running and expanding a company in Hong Kong with over 900 employees.
My goodness, I didn't know we had a tycoon on our little forum.
Shen Li must not know about your wealth Zetsu, otherwise she would begging for your hand in marriage.
Your comments are flattering Fashionista, but to be honest my father was the one that build it, my eldest brother and I only take his place since he's retired now. Not to mention we're no were near a tycoon, our family business is more like one of the most disorganized companies in Asia, lol.
Quote from: "Zetsu"
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "Zetsu"
For me I was award as the top cross country runner and swimmer in my school and competed in many other tournaments. Now my eldest brother and I are responsible for running and expanding a company in Hong Kong with over 900 employees.
My goodness, I didn't know we had a tycoon on our little forum.
Shen Li must not know about your wealth Zetsu, otherwise she would begging for your hand in marriage.
Your comments are flattering Fashionista, but to be honest my father was the one that build it, my eldest brother and I only take his place since he's retired now. Not to mention we're no were near a tycoon, our family business is more like one of the most disorganized companies in Asia, lol.
I like to hear how the other half lives even if it is your father's company.
You seem like a sweet person Zetsu and I'm glad you joined us.
:)
TBH there's nothing really much to say about our jobs, for my task I happened to be just one of the members in our companies sales team, while part of my other job is in market research and hosting expos with my cousin. For my eldest brother he's the real CEO of the company, he's practically does almost everything ranging from HR management, financial analysis to production, industrial engineering, quality control, investments etc. At the beginning when I first worked for my old man he tasked me with managing the company's product data base and creating a new OS with our IT. That's pretty much about it, frankly speaking I'm no were near as a workaholic like my eldest brother or my dad, more likely I would waste my time on the internet arguing with people like Gary, lol.
Quote from: "Zetsu"
You are so modest Zetsu.
What kind of product or service does your company sell?
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "Zetsu"
You are so modest Zetsu.
What kind of product or service does your company sell?
Ahh we're a clothing supplier company in Hong Kong.
still living off of dad are you..... boy
You are still living off of your dad and mom too ?
But back on the topic of the amazing Samurai....they really kicked Koreas ass :lol:
Quote from: "Gary Oak"
But back on the topic of the amazing Samurai....they really kicked Koreas ass :lol:
Korean soldiers and Chinese allied troops manage to stop the invasion of Japanese veteran samurai during the Ming dynasty, why don't you share some of your story how you got your ass kicked by Chinese fighters instead. :lol:
Okay Zetsu, here's an example. I have lots of examples that will amaze Canadians at just how cowardly ,sleazy and backstabing chinese fighters are. I sent this email off shortly after this match. As a Hong Kong cop told me " it is a major disgrace for a chinese to lose to a foreigner" so they simply wouldn't allow me to take a match unless it was ridiculously rigged. I have lots of examples to tell everybody about. Canadian chinese love the backstabbing of a Canadian. that is what FAN QING FU MING is all about and you Zetsu know it too so enjoy this story traitor monkey
The Brit HK cop that put on the last fight will finally get me a copy of the match.This is the sleaziest boxing match I have ever heard of.The gloves were rigged among many other things.This could have ripped my face off.Fortunately the winner never hit me in the face once and only hit me 3 times to the body and twice to the side of my head on the cheek bone.The Chinese judges couldn't see that I was obviously outpointing him every round.
I suspect that the triads were betting on a stoppage win due to the rigged gloves would have called for a stoppage if he had hit me in the face.I want everybody to see the sleaze.I was looking at his face while we were waiting for the decision which I knew he would get undeservedly and he was crying and had a black eye.They get got really exposed and a contingent from my fan club at CSIS was certainly there too to be amazed by the sleaze.The twenty something cop referee of my match waited for me in my changing room to tell me that I would have won if he hadn't taken that point away.He then started laughing and sped out of the room.He has a Canadian accent too.Something that CSIS should look into as being highly suspicious of triad affiliation.The HK chinese cops are predominantly triad affiliated.I obviously won the match.
Quote from: "Zetsu"
Quote from: "Gary Oak"
But back on the topic of the amazing Samurai....they really kicked Koreas ass :lol:
Korean soldiers and Chinese allied troops manage to stop the invasion of Japanese veteran samurai during the Ming dynasty,
For God sakes Zetsu don't encourage Gary Oak. We all know the sore loser loves to whine about the bitchslapping he got at the hands of a Chinese boxer.
Boxing in Hong Kong was an education for me. and I learned fast. when I first went to Hong Kong I was saying " let them all come to Canada " and there are chinese guys who remember me saying that however..... the jokes on you guys now as you can see not only did i learn how to speak ,read ,write chinese learned chinese history and know china better than most chinese guys I do influence a lot of Canadians everywhere I go
Quote from: "seoulbro"
Quote from: "Zetsu"
Quote from: "Gary Oak"
But back on the topic of the amazing Samurai....they really kicked Koreas ass :lol:
Korean soldiers and Chinese allied troops manage to stop the invasion of Japanese veteran samurai during the Ming dynasty,
For God sakes Zetsu don't encourage Gary Oak. We all know the sore loser loves to whine about the bitchslapping he got at the hands of a Chinese boxer.
Lol I'll try my best, it's just funny watching this loser bitch and moan and shoots out of his ass on a daily basis. :lol:
A real George Burns you are. I told one friend about you guys and within a week he beat a chinese guy into a coma. You backstab monkeys couldn't even do that with rigged gloves and a rigged ref
Now i am not up on all this Hong Kong ESL lingo. shooting out of my ass ? Now explain why it makes you so happy that a Canadian was cheated in Hong Kong ? are you a tong member ?
Clearly you are f*cked in the head Gary Choking the Chicken? MMB Members can see you are truly f*cked in the head by your continuous obsessive compulsive spamming about this racist non-selling self-published poorly written loser book for almost two years on MMB now on several threads. Now why would a normal person would do this unless they were f*cked in the head ? Now what is your reason for your continuous obsessive compulsive spamming Gary Choking the Chicken?
Quote from: "Gary Oak"
Now i am not up on all this Hong Kong ESL lingo. shooting out of my ass ? Now explain why it makes you so happy that a Canadian was cheated in Hong Kong ? are you a tong member ?
You're not a Canadian, neither am I, you're just a stupid miserable racist troll that discriminate against innocent based on race.
I am Canadian. You are a Hong Kong cunt. Do you have any filipino friends ? do you feel that Indonesian and filipinos are lower status than you ? You can bullshiite clueless politically correct morons but you can't bs me. Chinese fighters are the most cowardly dirty lowball bunch of h0h0's in the world and that is why they can't face a white guy in a fair fight
Quote from: "Gary Oak"
You're nothing but amazingly stupid and worthless racist piece of shit, don't even think about cowardly exploiting the image of good Canadians like Romero to shield yourself.
Quote from: "Zetsu"
Quote from: "Gary Oak"
You're nothing but amazingly stupid and worthless racist piece of shit, don't even think about cowardly exploiting the image of good Canadians like Romero to shield yourself.
Zetsu, I think you are very intelligent and a very nice boy.
:)
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "Zetsu"
Quote from: "Gary Oak"
You're nothing but amazingly stupid and worthless racist piece of shit, don't even think about cowardly exploiting the image of good Canadians like Romero to shield yourself.
Zetsu, I think you are very intelligent and a very nice boy.
:)
Thank you Fash, it's a blessing to realize that I'm not alone.
Quote from: "Zetsu"
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "Zetsu"
You're nothing but amazingly stupid and worthless racist piece of shit, don't even think about cowardly exploiting the image of good Canadians like Romero to shield yourself.
Zetsu, I think you are very intelligent and a very nice boy.
:)
Thank you Fash, it's a blessing to realize that I'm not alone.
You are smart and nice and it makes me sad that Gary is so mean to you.
:(
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "Zetsu"
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Zetsu, I think you are very intelligent and a very nice boy.
:)
Thank you Fash, it's a blessing to realize that I'm not alone.
You are smart and nice and it makes me sad that Gary is so mean to you.
:(
Good morning, Fash. :)
Quote from: "Odinson"
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "Zetsu"
Thank you Fash, it's a blessing to realize that I'm not alone.
You are smart and nice and it makes me sad that Gary is so mean to you.
:(
Good morning, Fash. :)
Good morning Odie.
:)
Quote from: "Gary Oak"
Now i am not up on all this Hong Kong ESL lingo. shooting out of my ass ? Now explain why it makes you so happy that a Canadian was cheated in Hong Kong ? are you a tong member ?
Why would you say that Zetsu is a backstabber?
What has he done to make you question his integrity?
seoulfag you have so much shit up your nostrils your eyes are brown. aAncient Korean saying say " brown nosing will get you everywhere" why don't you go back to Korea ?
Quote from: "seoulbro"
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "Gary Oak"
Now i am not up on all this Hong Kong ESL lingo. shooting out of my ass ? Now explain why it makes you so happy that a Canadian was cheated in Hong Kong ? are you a tong member ?
Why would you say that Zetsu is a backstabber?
What has he done to make you question his integrity?
Fash, you are using reason on a freakin lunatic. Gary is nuts, if he wants to make ridiculous accusations about Zetsu let him. He's a paranoid loser.
I don't know if Gary Oak is mentally ill, but he is wrong about yourself and Zetsu.
No , you are just stupid
I wonder if the Samarai were the best soldiers ever ? They were so complete., experts in everything grappling,kicking,elbowing archery striking,etc... They saved JJapan as if you didn't surrender to the Mongols the genocided you.l so it was do or die for them and they did when nobody else could.
Quote from: "Gary Oak"
There is a show where they reconstruct great warriors of the past to determine who would be greater today..
I saw it twice, but I won't watch it anymore because it is so violent.