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General Discussion => The Flea Trap => Topic started by: Anonymous on October 04, 2013, 06:06:51 PM

Title: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdown
Post by: Anonymous on October 04, 2013, 06:06:51 PM
I want to start by saying if I was an American I would not be a Rep or a Dem. They are both incredibly inept parties in a race to the bottom. The 90's Reps under Gingrich and Dems under Clinton provided the US with a steady hands at the wheel. I would never have voted  for Dubya's big spending, overreaching government initiatives either.  



However, this current prez is NO Bill Clinton. I expected a little Clinton pragmatism, but he is so hyper-partisan and uncompromising it is sickening.


QuoteHe's fond of insisting that because Obamacare passed along strict party lines back in 2010, when the Democrats had majorities in the House and the Senate, that it's a done deal. Will of the people, that sort of thing. Even the Supreme Court upheld it. Suck it, Republicans. I won - get over it. His pique is understandable, even as I wish Obamacare had never been passed, much less upheld.



But Obamacare also helped spark a Republican resurgence in the 2010 midterms and the Democrats lost the House. They didn't lose in spite of your programs, Mr. President. They lost because of your first two years in office, when you signed on to Bush's TARP plan, expanded unpopular military actions, pushed a stimulus that failed by your own predicted measures of success, and forced through a health-care plan that people still don't like.



Then you compounded legislative issues by failing to kick the asses of sorry little functionaries like John Boehner and Harry Reid to pass budgets on a regular basis. At this point, you're one for five, batting .200 on budgets. If you had forced the budget process, most Americans would never have learned of the debt limit, whose increase you used to rail against so eloquently. It's hard, after all, for Congress not to pass increases to pay for spending it budgeted through the normal budget process.


From Reuters
QuoteA Reuters/Ipsos poll indicated that 24 percent of Americans blamed Republicans for the shutdown, while 19 percent blamed Obama or Democrats. Another 46 percent said everyone was to blame.

That 46% are indeed correct. This is a failure on both sides of the aisle.
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Anonymous on October 04, 2013, 06:11:45 PM
From Reuters;


QuoteWith the federal government expected to hit its debt limit in mid-October, 70 percent of Americans oppose raising the debt ceiling, the latest Reason-Rupe poll finds. In fact, 55 percent of Americans say they do not support raising the debt ceiling even if it causes the U.S. to default on its debt.

If equal spending cuts accompany an increase in the debt ceiling, 45 percent say they'd support raising it and 46 percent would oppose. Thirty-five percent favor raising the debt ceiling in exchange for cutting off funding to the Affordable Care Act, also known as Obamacare, with 56 percent opposed.



Nearly two-thirds, 63 percent, of Americans feel members of Congress are out of touch with their constituents when it comes to federal spending.  Seventy-six percent of Americans believe the federal government spends too much money, 11 percent say it spends the right amount, and 7 percent say it spends too little.



In response to open-ended questions, Americans told Reason-Rupe the government wastes 60 cents out of every dollar they pay in federal taxes and they'd cut federal spending by 30 percent across the board.



Rep. Paul Ryan's (R-WI) 2013 budget plan aims to balance the federal budget over 10 years, but Reason-Rupe finds the public wants it done sooner than that. In fact, 40 percent of Americans say Congress should balance the budget immediately, 32 percent say the budget should be balanced over five years, 16 percent feel it should be balanced over 10 years, and 7 percent say Congress should not worry about balancing the budget.

Obama and congress are out of touch with Americans.
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Romero on October 04, 2013, 09:32:25 PM
QuoteRep. Paul Ryan's (R-WI) 2013 budget plan aims to balance the federal budget over 10 years

Lolz. Paul Ryan's budget plan balances in part because it includes savings from Obamacare.



//http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/22/chris-van-hollen-obamacare_n_3971971.html



Republicans, mainly the Tea Party faction, are definitely responsible. All they had to do was vote for no shutdown. They could stop the shutdown tomorrow. There are enough votes, there are now enough moderate(not cruel and insane) Republican votes, and Obama would sign it immediately. Spineless John Boehner won't do it.



Most Americans rightfully blame Republicans and the number is growing by the day. Even many prominent Republicans are sick of this mess. There's a bit of a war going on between moderate Republicans and the extremists. We haven't seen any Democrats criticizing other Democrats for wanting to keep the government going and stop hurting America!



Obamacare is the law. It's not only going to happen, it is happening. Tens of thousands have signed up. Millions will finally be able to obtain and afford health care. What's the Republican alternative? "They can go to emergency".



Republican fail. Obama was re-elected. Obamacare passed the House and the Senate. The right-leaning Supreme Court ruled it constitutional. The Republicans have tried to repeal it 42 times and have failed every single time.



"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein



The whole "but but but we just wanna delay it for a year" is a bunch of baloney. We all know they want Obamacare gone. They're outright lying. And that's nothing:



"Obamacare is the most dangerous piece of legislation ever passed in Congress." - Republican Congressman John Fleming



"Repeal this failure before it literally kills women, kills children, kills senior citizens." - Republican Congresswoman Michele Bachmann



"A law as destructive to personal and individual liberty as the Fugitive Slave Act of 1850." - Republican Representative William L. O'Brien



"Armageddon." - Republican House Speaker John Boehner



Tell me they're not friggin' crazy.



But here's some rare honesty:



"We're not going to be disrespected. We have to get something out of this. And I don't know what that even is." - Republican Congressman Marlin Stutzman



And now they act all concerned and shocked with their outcome. But do they care about the 800,000 Americans who aren't working and getting paid? All the military veterans who have lost assistance and Meals on Wheels? All the families and children who are going to go hungry? All the people who are losing their needed health care?



No! They're only upset about some parks and memorials being closed!



The Tea Party hates government. They're loving this and they got exactly what they wanted. In fact, many Tea Partiers and Republicans say the government isn't shutdown enough. Fox News calls this a "slimdown", not a shutdown.



Republican's fault. They'll cave in and come to some of their senses eventually. Hopefully they won't ruin the economy and American lives too much in the meantime.
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Romero on October 04, 2013, 09:33:23 PM




Funny stuff. @ 4:06, Republican after Republican after Republican: "government is the problem", "get government out of the way", "get government out of our lives", "get government off our backs", "if only the government would leave us alone".



@ 5:26: "this is about the happiest I've seen our [Republican] members in a long time". Says it all.



A bunch of government employees being paid handsomely to be a problem and, um, not govern. They wanted it, they got it!
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Anonymous on October 05, 2013, 11:54:33 AM
Obama and the Democrats wanted this shutdown and have the most to gain by it.
QuoteWhite House Press Secretary Jay Carney was left playing damage control Friday after a "senior administration official" told The Wall Street Journal that the administration doesn't care how long the government shutdown continues.

"We are winning," the unnamed official told the Journal. "It doesn't really matter to us" how long the shutdown lasts "because what matters is the end result," the official said.


QuoteMembers of the two parties did get together later in the week, but only so the Democrats could again emphasize they wouldn't budge. President Barack Obama invited Boehner over to the White House to deliver the same message.
I am not some hyper-partisan hack and I don't like either US political party, but the DEMS and Obama are at least as intransigent as the Reps. As we can see Obama has more to gain by playing hardball.
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Anonymous on October 05, 2013, 11:57:09 AM
The politics of this shutdown gets even more silly. This is the kind of billionaire capitalist sugardaddy sleazeball that butters Obama's bread and holds Americans hostage to his greed. Us politics is about money and hyperbole. Each party is as guilty as the other.


QuoteTom Steyer, a San Francisco billionaire and a major Democratic party fundraiser, chastises Harper for saying he would not "take 'no' for an answer" from U.S. President Barack Obama on TransCanada's Keystone XL.



In a question-and-answer session with the Canadian American Business Council last week in New York, Harper took a hard line on how Canada would respond if the Keystone XL project is rejected by the White House.

http://business.financialpost.com/2013/ ... -pipeline/

Not only did Mr. Steyer make lots of money out of investing in fossil fuels, but through his new organization, NextGen he is involved in clean energy investment funds whose fortunes depend significantly on legislation that cripples fossil fuels.
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Rambo Wong on October 05, 2013, 05:09:31 PM
I think that Obama is going to get assassinated.
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Romero on October 05, 2013, 08:02:18 PM
QuoteWhite House Press Secretary Jay Carney was left playing damage control Friday after a "senior administration official" told The Wall Street Journal that the administration doesn't care how long the government shutdown continues.

"We are winning," the unnamed official told the Journal. "It doesn't really matter to us" how long the shutdown lasts "because what matters is the end result," the official said.

Just hearsay. An unnamed official? How convenient. Jay Carney wasn't playing "damage control". He said the allegation that anybody said the administration doesn't care how long the government shutdown continues was false and "absurd".


QuoteMembers of the two parties did get together later in the week, but only so the Democrats could again emphasize they wouldn't budge. President Barack Obama invited Boehner over to the White House to deliver the same message. In the hours since the government shut down, House Republicans have slowly but steadily been coming forward to say they're ready to pass a bill to fund the government with no strings attached.



As of Wednesday afternoon, the number of those Republicans hit 21 -- surpassing the magic 17 votes needed to pass a clean funding bill if all 200 Democrats stick together and team up with them. Of course, House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) would have to be willing to put that bill on the floor in the first place. But if he did, the votes appear to be there for passage, at which point the bill would sail through the Senate and be signed by President Barack Obama, ending the shutdown.



Here's who those House Republicans are, and why they say they're done with trying to force through provisions to delay or defund Obamacare in order to keep the government running.



//http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/01/house-republicans-clean-cr_n_4024755.html

QuoteRep. Dennis Ross (R-Fla.) said Friday that Republicans have "lost" the battle over attaching Obamacare-related provisions to the continuing resolution to fund the government, and said they should move on to negotiations over raising the debt ceiling.



"We've lost the CR battle," he told Bloomberg. "We need to move on and take whatever we can find in the debt limit."



"There are a whole lot of other issues that haunted us at the election other than Obamacare," he said. "I would hope there's at least enough of us to constitute a majority of reasonable people that realize we need to give and take."



//http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/04/dennis-ross-cr-obamacare_n_4046284.html

QuoteThe suggestion that Democrats aren't willing to negotiate ignores that they've already given Republicans a major win. The continuing resolution that the White House and congressional Democrats have agreed to funds the government at sequestration levels.



"It is a concession, I acknowledge that," Rep. Doug Lamborn (R-Colo.) told The Huffington Post on Saturday. "I was glad to see that lower number. It didn't take defense spending into account. There has been some compromise and I acknowledge that."



(Lamborn, for what it's worth, is no centrist. He signed on to a letter saying a government shutdown was preferable to the implementation of Obamacare.)



//http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/05/harry-reid-shutdown_n_4050400.html

QuoteWith the government shutdown in its fifth day, many Republicans have conceded the fight is no longer about Obamacare. Rep. Dennis Ross (R-Fla.) added his name to the list on Saturday, saying the matter now boils down to "pride."



"Republicans have to realize how many significant gains we've made over the last three years, and we have, not only in cutting spending but in really turning the tide on other things," Ross told The New York Times. "We can't lose all that when there's no connection now between the shutdown and the funding of Obamacare."



"I think now it's a lot about pride," he added.



//http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/05/dennis-ross-government-shutdown_n_4050231.html

Moderate Republicans are sick of this and want to it to end. Extremist Tea Partiers are holding them back and we all know they love the government being shutdown. The less government the better, the no government the best. Again, they wanted it and they got it!
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Anonymous on October 06, 2013, 04:45:41 PM
QuoteJust hearsay. An unnamed official? How convenient. Jay Carney wasn't playing "damage control". He said the allegation that anybody said the administration doesn't care how long the government shutdown continues was false and "absurd".

The White House is distancing itself from the remark, but they do NOT deny it was made.

It was most likely a cabinet member who made the this remark to someone from the Wall Street Journal/

"We are winning...It doesn't really matter to us" how long the shutdown lasts "because what matters is the end result."

Obama is taking a high stakes gamble and so far it's working.
QuotePresident Barack Obama is sticking to his stance that he won't negotiate with Republicans over the government shutdown or the higher-stakes fight over the federal debt ceiling.



The question, for Republicans and White House allies alike: How long will that resolve last?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303492504579113781436540284.html

Only hyper partisan hacks will deny that Obama bears at least some responsibility for this political mess.
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Romero on October 07, 2013, 12:45:11 AM
Jay Carney did deny the remark was made and said "we utterly disavow idea White House doesn't care when it ends". Still, it was hearsay. Who is this mysterious unnamed official? And even if it was said, one person does not speak for Obama, the White House or the Democratic Party.



The Democrats have already negotiated and compromised. The Senate-passed Continuing Resolution is set at the Republican's own budget and includes the sequester. The Democrats wanted a higher budget and an end to the sequester.



(//%3C/s%3E%3CURL%20url=%22http://www.americanprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/FundingLevelCharticle-1.png%22%3E%3CLINK_TEXT%20text=%22http://www.americanprogress.org/wp-cont%20...%20icle-1.png%22%3Ehttp://www.americanprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/FundingLevelCharticle-1.png%3C/LINK_TEXT%3E%3C/URL%3E%3Ce%3E)



See? Compromise! Funding is set at Paul Ryan's own budget! The Republicans got exactly what they wanted, have offered up absolutely nothing in return and are demanding even more.



Earlier today John Boehner said he doesn't have enough votes to put an end to this nonsense. He's lying yet again! 21 Republicans are on record saying they would vote for the bill.
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Odinson on October 07, 2013, 12:53:08 AM
Quote from: "Romero"Jay Carney did deny the remark was made and said "we utterly disavow idea White House doesn't care when it ends". Still, it was hearsay. Who is this mysterious unnamed official? And even if it was said, one person does not speak for Obama, the White House or the Democratic Party.



The Democrats have already negotiated and compromised. The Senate-passed Continuing Resolution is set at the Republican's own budget and includes the sequester. The Democrats wanted a higher budget and an end to the sequester.



(//%3C/s%3E%3CURL%20url=%22http://www.americanprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/FundingLevelCharticle-1.png%22%3E%3CLINK_TEXT%20text=%22http://www.americanprogress.org/wp-cont%20...%20icle-1.png%22%3Ehttp://www.americanprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/FundingLevelCharticle-1.png%3C/LINK_TEXT%3E%3C/URL%3E%3Ce%3E)



See? Compromise! Funding is set at Paul Ryan's own budget! The Republicans got exactly what they wanted, have offered up absolutely nothing in return and are demanding even more.



Earlier today John Boehner said he doesn't have enough votes to put an end to this nonsense. He's lying yet again! 21 Republicans are on record saying they would vote for the bill.


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Explain this to me Romero...
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Romero on October 07, 2013, 01:08:07 AM
Huh? Are you not seeing the image I posted?
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: cc on October 07, 2013, 01:19:45 AM
Explain this also - It and 100s like it back up Loch's thread as to how this tit operates



Amber Alert Taken Down, But Michelle's "Let's Move" Still Up



Former Amber Alert - http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/unavailable/



But the bitch's site is up http://www.letsmove.gov/ ................. fkkkkkkkk -



In a White House of skewed priorities, who in their right mind could possibly think that helping to save missing children was 'less essential"?



This guy surpasses Nixon for spite and for do anything ... anything
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Odinson on October 07, 2013, 01:25:39 AM
Quote from: "Romero"Huh? Are you not seeing the image I posted?


I didn´t mean that.

I sometimes cannot send a reply. A new page comes up from memebee and it says not found.
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Romero on October 07, 2013, 01:37:25 AM
Quote from: "cc li tarte"Explain this also - It and 100s like it back up Loch's thread as to how this tit operates



Amber Alert Taken Down, But Michelle's "Let's Move" Still Up



Former Amber Alert - http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/unavailable/



But the bitch's site is up http://www.letsmove.gov/ ................. fkkkkkkkk -



In a White House of skewed priorities, who in their right mind could possibly think that helping to save missing children was 'less essential"?

A lot of .gov web sites are still up. Obama and the Democrats can't pick and choose which web sites, departments and services will keep running, or which workers will be furloughed. Though both parties have agreed to recall 400,000 Defense Department workers as they'll be paid retroactively once the government reopens.



Obama and the Democrats certainly didn't choose to shut down the Department of Justice's Amber Alert web site.



A lot of damage is being done. Hundreds of thousands of families are suffering and tens of thousands of children are suffering. Boehner can end this nonsense with a vote tomorrow!


QuoteI've been asked if all the social chatter about the DOJ shutting down its Amber Alert website (http://www.amberalert.gov) is true, and the answer is yes, the site has been taken down and unceremoniously replaced with a notice stating, "Due to the lapse in federal funding this Office of Justice Programs (OJP) website is unavailable."



This does not mean the Amber Alert system itself has been shut down, however. Amber Alerts are issued by the states, not the federal government. As of this past weekend, the system still seemed to be working fine.



Even with AmberAlert.gov offline, a constantly updated list of current Amber Alerts nationwide remains accessible day and night via the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children.



//http://urbanlegends.about.com/b/2013/10/07/amberalert-gov-shut-down-due-to-the-lapse-in-federal-funding.htm
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Romero on October 07, 2013, 01:38:22 AM
Quote from: "Odinson"


I didn´t mean that.

I sometimes cannot send a reply. A new page comes up from memebee and it says not found.

I dunno! I haven't seen any problems myself recently but it has happened from time to time.
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Odinson on October 07, 2013, 01:50:16 AM
Quote from: "Romero"
Quote from: "Odinson"


I didn´t mean that.

I sometimes cannot send a reply. A new page comes up from memebee and it says not found.

I dunno! I haven't seen any problems myself recently but it has happened from time to time.


I see.
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Anonymous on October 07, 2013, 08:32:06 AM
I am apolitical, but the shutdown if the federal government came up at my women's bible study group..



We prayed the president and the congress would reach some sort of compromise.
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Renee on October 07, 2013, 09:42:33 AM
Quote from: "Romero"
Quote from: "cc li tarte"Explain this also - It and 100s like it back up Loch's thread as to how this tit operates



Amber Alert Taken Down, But Michelle's "Let's Move" Still Up



Former Amber Alert - http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/unavailable/



But the bitch's site is up http://www.letsmove.gov/ ................. fkkkkkkkk -



In a White House of skewed priorities, who in their right mind could possibly think that helping to save missing children was 'less essential"?

A lot of .gov web sites are still up. Obama and the Democrats can't pick and choose which web sites, departments and services will keep running, or which workers will be furloughed. Though both parties have agreed to recall 400,000 Defense Department workers as they'll be paid retroactively once the government reopens.



Obama and the Democrats certainly didn't choose to shut down the Department of Justice's Amber Alert web site.



A lot of damage is being done. Hundreds of thousands of families are suffering and tens of thousands of children are suffering. Boehner can end this nonsense with a vote tomorrow!


Bullshit, the Dems own this mess. The House has sent them a budget that funds the government completely and the senate dems rejected out of hand BECAUSE it didn't fund Obamacare. Obama and Reid want everything they ask for before they will negotiate the debt clg. This has been their demanding unethical tantrum throwing mode of operation since Obama's first term.



"The Senate chose not to vote to authorize that money to be spent, because it did not include money for Obamacare. Senate majority leader Harry Reid says that he wants a "clean" bill from the House of Representatives, and some in the media keep repeating the word "clean" like a mantra. But what is unclean about not giving Harry Reid everything he wants?



If Senator Reid and President Obama refuse to accept the money required to run the government, because it leaves out the money they want to run Obamacare, that is their right. But that is also their responsibility.



You cannot blame other people for not giving you everything you want. And it is a fraud to blame them when you refuse to use the money they did vote for, even when it is ample to pay for everything else in the government."



http://www.nationalreview.com/article/360338/democrats-chose-shutdown-thomas-sowell#!
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: cc on October 07, 2013, 10:28:10 AM
QuoteIf Senator Reid and President Obama refuse to accept the money required to run the government, because it leaves out the money they want to run Obamacare, that is their right. But that is also their responsibility.





You cannot blame other people for not giving you everything you want. And it is a fraud to blame them when you refuse to use the money they did vote for, even when it is ample to pay for everything else in the government."
Exactly



Sorry Querky. Just because the MSM also beats you drum doesn't make it correct. They are a part of the team too
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Renee on October 07, 2013, 10:45:24 AM
Quote from: "cc li tarte"
QuoteIf Senator Reid and President Obama refuse to accept the money required to run the government, because it leaves out the money they want to run Obamacare, that is their right. But that is also their responsibility.





You cannot blame other people for not giving you everything you want. And it is a fraud to blame them when you refuse to use the money they did vote for, even when it is ample to pay for everything else in the government."
Exactly


A lot of people on the left will try and used the excuse that you cannot legislate by appropriation but they neglect to admit that historically the democrats in the house have done just that at least a dozen times in the past century. Tip O'Neal speaker of the democratically controlled house under Reagan presided over budgetary stalemates similar to this 12 times. Although the reasons and severity  might be different this time, it doesn't change the fact that this isn't the first time one party has tried to hold the other hostage to an ideological principle.



"The U.S. government was shut down 12 times when O'Neill was speaker and Ronald Reagan was president? We didn't remember that."



http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/oct/04/newt-gingrich/newt-gingrich-says-late-speaker-tip-oneill-served-/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/09/26/sorry-chris-matthews-tip-oneill-and-ronald-reagan-were-terrible-at-averting-shutdowns/
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: cc on October 07, 2013, 11:20:55 AM
Obama Regime Turns AMBER Alert Website Back On After Outcry...Oh My Oh My. He tried too hard on that one and rightly got bit, eh?



Nice try to make it appear his opponents are evil when it is he that is evil .... picking things that will outrage and then trying to say he was not offered any money to keep the govt going



Now the debt ceiling approached. That should be real fun as El Dictator demands everything he wants
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Odinson on October 07, 2013, 11:28:39 AM
I hope that fake ass brownie topples from his crown... Thank you american females whom cunts drooling with pussy juice voted for that bastard to the lead just based on his colour!!!



You women/liberals are so afraid of racism that you even think that using a condom during sex with a black man is racism (When you ask a black man to wear a condom is racism because the stereotype is that they all have HIV or some kind of STD).
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Romero on October 07, 2013, 01:08:07 PM
Quote from: "Renee"Bullshit, the Dems own this mess. The House has sent them a budget that funds the government completely and the senate dems rejected out of hand BECAUSE it didn't fund Obamacare. Obama and Reid want everything they ask for before they will negotiate the debt clg. This has been their demanding unethical tantrum throwing mode of operation since Obama's first term.

 :lol: You have no idea what's going on!


QuoteOne of the great ironies of the impending government shutdown is that most Obamacare funding, the issue at the heart of the battle, won't be affected by the spending freeze. The funding for the Affordable Care Act is a permanent appropriation — meaning it was approved in a prior session of Congress (in 2010, when the act was passed) and doesn't have to be approved again.



//http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2013/09/how-government-shutdown-will-affect-obamacare-launch/70021/

Have you not noticed that Obamacare is up and running even though the Republicans voted against the Continuing Resolution? Did you not know that the Republicans demanded a one year delay of Obamacare though it's already been funded?



Obamacare is the law. It was passed by the House and Senate and ruled constitutional by the right-leaning Supreme Court. Your extremist Tea Party friends are all pissy about it and throwing a tantrum.



And now the Republicans are falling apart. Why do you think so many Republicans are saying their own party is being ridiculous?


QuoteIn an interview with Fox News on Sunday, Rep. Peter King (R) bucked Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) and his party's standard talking points and told host Chris Wallace that Republicans "are the ones who shut down the government."



"I'm talking basically about Ted Cruz, who was saying if we [voted in the House to defund] Obamacare, he could manage to both keep the government open and defund Obamacare," King explained. "The fact is, it was done in the House and the government is now closed and Obamacare is going forward. This was a strategy that never could work. It was almost sort of a nullification, to say we're going to shut down the government if we don't defund a law that we don't like."



"If we want to defund something, we should repeal it," he continued. "And do it the same way the president got it signed: elect Republicans to both Houses of Congress, repeal it and then have a Republican president sign it. This was a strategy doomed to failure."



As for the Republicans who were blaming the Democrats and the president for shutting down the government, King said that he just wasn't buying into that argument.



"We are the ones who did shut the government down," he insisted. "You don't take the dramatic step of shutting down the government unless you have a real strategy."



//http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/10/06/republican-rep-peter-king-we-are-the-ones-who-shut-down-the-government/


(//%3C/s%3E%3CURL%20url=%22http://s3.amazonaws.com/dk-production/images/51738/large/Mark_Takano_unreasonable_demands.jpg?1380928340%22%3E%3CLINK_TEXT%20text=%22http://s3.amazonaws.com/dk-production/i%20...%201380928340%22%3Ehttp://s3.amazonaws.com/dk-production/images/51738/large/Mark_Takano_unreasonable_demands.jpg?1380928340%3C/LINK_TEXT%3E%3C/URL%3E%3Ce%3E)
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Odinson on October 07, 2013, 01:18:49 PM
I remember those Obama panties and tops on those american airheads. Voting for coloured! Never mind his ability to lead as long he is coloured. The first coloured president in USA history!



Man, you people are fucked up...
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Romero on October 07, 2013, 01:49:24 PM
You're the one saying they voted for Obama because he's "coloured".



I suppose it's only a coincidence that you just so happen to hate black males.
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Odinson on October 07, 2013, 02:23:04 PM
Quote from: "Romero"You're the one saying they voted for Obama because he's "coloured".



I suppose it's only a coincidence that you just so happen to hate black males.


Might come as a suprise to you but I would have voted for Obama 5years ago.



Now I know that he is but a sinister character. Nice maneuver from the democrats to put a coloured man in the presidential election in these politically correct time. So politically correct that it is racism to demand the use of protection.



It was such a big deal when a coloured got the seat... People forgot that he is gonna have the launch codes of the entire USA nuclear-arsenal and he will be the most powerful man on the planet.
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Romero on October 07, 2013, 02:37:14 PM
You would have voted for him but voting for him was politically correct and racist?
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Odinson on October 07, 2013, 03:04:00 PM
Quote from: "Romero"You would have voted for him but voting for him was politically correct and racist?


My vote would have been bare and simple. The oil-price started to go through the roof after Bush attacked middle-east.



No colour just regime change. And the competition was a grandpa anyways.



I´m not the most PC person as you have probably witnessed. ;)
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Renee on October 07, 2013, 03:28:34 PM
Quote from: "Romero"
Quote from: "Renee"Bullshit, the Dems own this mess. The House has sent them a budget that funds the government completely and the senate dems rejected out of hand BECAUSE it didn't fund Obamacare. Obama and Reid want everything they ask for before they will negotiate the debt clg. This has been their demanding unethical tantrum throwing mode of operation since Obama's first term.

 :lol: You have no idea what's going on!


QuoteOne of the great ironies of the impending government shutdown is that most Obamacare funding, the issue at the heart of the battle, won't be affected by the spending freeze. The funding for the Affordable Care Act is a permanent appropriation — meaning it was approved in a prior session of Congress (in 2010, when the act was passed) and doesn't have to be approved again.



//http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2013/09/how-government-shutdown-will-affect-obamacare-launch/70021/

Have you not noticed that Obamacare is up and running even though the Republicans voted against the Continuing Resolution? Did you not know that the Republicans demanded a one year delay of Obamacare though it's already been funded?



Obamacare is the law. It was passed by the House and Senate and ruled constitutional by the right-leaning Supreme Court. Your extremist Tea Party friends are all pissy about it and throwing a tantrum.



And now the Republicans are falling apart. Why do you think so many Republicans are saying their own party is being ridiculous?


QuoteIn an interview with Fox News on Sunday, Rep. Peter King (R) bucked Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) and his party's standard talking points and told host Chris Wallace that Republicans "are the ones who shut down the government."



"I'm talking basically about Ted Cruz, who was saying if we [voted in the House to defund] Obamacare, he could manage to both keep the government open and defund Obamacare," King explained. "The fact is, it was done in the House and the government is now closed and Obamacare is going forward. This was a strategy that never could work. It was almost sort of a nullification, to say we're going to shut down the government if we don't defund a law that we don't like."



"If we want to defund something, we should repeal it," he continued. "And do it the same way the president got it signed: elect Republicans to both Houses of Congress, repeal it and then have a Republican president sign it. This was a strategy doomed to failure."



As for the Republicans who were blaming the Democrats and the president for shutting down the government, King said that he just wasn't buying into that argument.



"We are the ones who did shut the government down," he insisted. "You don't take the dramatic step of shutting down the government unless you have a real strategy."



//http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/10/06/republican-rep-peter-king-we-are-the-ones-who-shut-down-the-government/


(//%3C/s%3E%3CURL%20url=%22http://s3.amazonaws.com/dk-production/images/51738/large/Mark_Takano_unreasonable_demands.jpg?1380928340%22%3E%3CLINK_TEXT%20text=%22http://s3.amazonaws.com/dk-production/i%20...%201380928340%22%3Ehttp://s3.amazonaws.com/dk-production/images/51738/large/Mark_Takano_unreasonable_demands.jpg?1380928340%3C/LINK_TEXT%3E%3C/URL%3E%3Ce%3E)


You are such a dumbass. You have no clue how this works, do you?

 

The AHA may be a law but most of its funding comes from new taxes and cuts in Medicare and Medicaid spending. That is what is at stake here, dumbass. Defunding Obamacare forces the Dems to discuss how the AHA will be funded. Just because something is law it doesn't mean it is automatically funded. I don't know how it works in Canada and I don't care but in the US ONLY the House of Representatives has the legal right to appropriate funds for the budget. Since the funding for Obamacare is coming from new taxes that haven't even been collected yet and cuts to existing programs, implementing the money raised from those cuts and taxes are still a matter of debate. This is something your lying prog propaganda websites don't what anyone to know and you are so clueless that you think the huff and puff and politico only tell the truth. You are nothing but a useful idiot but not really all that useful because despite your clueless cut and paste idiocy you don't even have a horse in this race.

 

"Untouchable. That's the treatment being given to the $23.6 billion being spent right now to implement Obamacare."



"This $23.6 billion is part of the $105.5 billion appropriated by the last Congress to fund Obamacare. The remainder (Think of it as post-dated checks for the other $81.9 billion.) automatically becomes available between now and FY2019."



"The House has constitutional authority to package legislation however it wishes."



http://www.askheritage.org/has-obamacare-already-begun-implementation/



Follow the link I provided; read and learn something for a change because you really have NO clue how the US government works and how it funds federal programs. All you know is what you read in your leftwing-nut propaganda spin sites. So stop arguing what doesn't concern you and of which you have no clue.  :lol:
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Romero on October 07, 2013, 04:00:48 PM
Quote from: "Renee"The AHA may be a law but most of its funding comes from new taxes and cuts in Medicare and Medicaid spending.

That's right, the funding of Obamacare has already been looked after. There is no extra funding for Obamacare in the Continuing Resolution. The Senate-passed budget is the same amount as the Paul Ryan budget.



So, this has all been about the Republicans holding the American economy and people hostage because they can't accept Obamacare is happening. They couldn't defund or repeal Obamacare 41 times so they're throwing a tantrum and holding a gun to America's head.



35 million Americans will now finally receive the health care they sorely need. What kind of sickos would want to take health care away from tens millions of people?
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Obvious Li on October 07, 2013, 05:55:05 PM
sorry to once again point out the many holes in your logic homy but here are just two......

1. this whole white elephant regarding 40 million americans not having health coverage is just that...nonsense. When i ran companies in the USA a LOT of my employees who were single or under 30 CHOSE to not purchase health care....like all young people they thought they were invincible and would rather spend $250/mo on a car payment than towards purchasing health care...the poor, black,crippled,gay old people you are so concerned about are already covered under medicaid



2. what we are now seeing across the board is that companies with more than 50 employees are making most new positions part time or casual to avoid the new substantial obamacare premiums....another unintended consequence of government interference in the marketplace that the leftards never seem to forsee....but invariably happens. Thanks alot Obama for my new part time job along with the increase in taxes and debt which must invariably follow....



there are a million other things wrong with this enforced government destruction of the best health care system in the world but just a couple of examples of the lefts climate warming logic being brought to bear in the health arena......pretty soon their system will be as bad as ours and then you Huff and puff devotees will have something to celebrate....
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Romero on October 07, 2013, 06:54:38 PM
There are around 50 million Americans uninsured. Now they'll be able to afford the health care they need and deserve. People with pre-existing conditions will no longer be denied. How unreal that the people who needed health care the most weren't allowed to have it.



$250/month is a lot for people who don't have much money. It can cost around $1,000/month or more for families. It'll be a lot less expensive with Obamacare. Tens of thousands have already found out they can afford it now.



Yes, some profitable companies are trying to screw over their workers. No surprise. Most won't.



As bad as ours? We have one of the greatest and most inexpensive health care systems on Earth.



Time for the US to join the rest of the developed world.
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Anonymous on October 07, 2013, 07:21:49 PM
Obama has said he would change the name of the Washington Redskins if he was the owner. Glad to see he has his priorities in order with the government shutdown. I wonder if this is what the cabinet member who said the WH doesn't care how long this goes on meant by we are winning. :roll:
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Romero on October 07, 2013, 10:18:22 PM
QuoteRep. Charlie Dent (R-PA) on Monday echoed Peter King's (R-NY) statement that the person to blame for the current government shutdown is Texas Senator Ted Cruz.



"If I had to cast blame anywhere, I would say it was Sen. Cruz and those who insisted upon this tactic that we all knew was not going to succeed," Dent told CNN's Wolf Blitzer.



"What he did essentially, Sen. Cruz, basically, he took a lot of folks into the ditch. Now that we're in the ditch, you can't get out of the ditch, the senator has no plan to get out of the ditch, those of us who do have a plan to get out of the ditch and will vote to get out of the ditch will then be criticized by those who put us in the ditch in the first place."



Dent also challenged House Speaker John Boehner's assertion that there aren't enough votes to pass a "clean" continuing resolution to fund the government, saying "I believe there are the votes to pass a clean CR."



Earlier this afternoon, Obama issued Boehner the same challenge. "Hold a vote," the president said. "Call a vote right now. Let's see what happens. If Republicans and Speaker Boehner are saying there aren't enough votes, then they should prove it. Let the bill go to the floor and let's see what happens. Just vote."



On Sunday, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid suggested that Boehner's afraid such a vote would actually pass, as almost 20 Republicans, including Rep. Dent, have agreed to support it.



//http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/10/07/republican-rep-dent-ted-cruz-put-us-in-a-ditch-without-a-plan-to-get-out/
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Anonymous on October 07, 2013, 10:50:49 PM
Obama and the Dems could end this partial shutdown by negotiating with the other side. Whay aren't they doing that? It's not in their interests to do that....for now.
QuoteRep. Nunes: Democratic congressmen tell me privately they want to prolong shutdown

Two days into the government shutdown in Washington, D.C., and there is still no end in sight.



The good news: Both sides actually met at the White House Wednesday. The bad news: All they did was butt heads.



Many right wing Republicans seem to have all their chips on defunding the Affordable Health Act, so-called Obamacare, and are refusing to budge.



Republican Congressman Devin Nunes, who said the shutdown is bad for the GOP and has publicly criticized his party for what he calls a "silly" strategy, said the shutdown gives Democrats a political advantage.



"The Democrats are giddy about this behind closed doors. I mean, they think that this is going to give (House Minority Leader) Nancy Pelosi back the gavel," said Nunes. "They're very cocky, very confident."



"They want to continue this. They want to keep the government shut down as long as they can. They're encouraging our folks to do it," said Nunes.



Nunes said his colleagues from across the aisle have privately told him that Democrats want to keep the government shut down.



Yes, said Nunes, Democrats are speaking "tongue in cheek. But I mean, look, Democrats believe in big government, no question. But this is benefiting them politically."

http://thelead.blogs.cnn.com/2013/10/03/rep-nunes-democratic-congressmen-tell-me-privately-they-want-to-prolong-shutdown/
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Romero on October 07, 2013, 11:30:14 PM
Again with the "somebody told me" and "behind closed doors"? Where are the names? Where are the actual quotes?



Oh, wait - it's "tongue in cheek" and "this is what I personally think the Democrats believe."



"In other news, a 'friend', who wishes not to be named, told the National Enquirer that Brad Pitt has a massive drug problem."



All we need to do is look at who voted for the shutdown. It was the Republicans. They voted 'no' to keeping the government open, plain and simple.



They have negotiated. "Get rid of Obamacare" is not a compromise. Imagine if the Dems had insisted on raising taxes on the wealthy or they would shut down the government. We'd know who to blame and we know who to blame now. Even many Republicans agree they're to blame.



It's benefiting the Democrats alright. The Republicans are at war with each other and the American people are against this nonsense.
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Anonymous on October 07, 2013, 11:59:19 PM
^^Romero, we're not talking about the Jackie Chan death hoax here or National Enquirer rumours. The story first appeared in The Wall Street Journal. It was most likely a cabinet member. It makes perfect sense too as the Dems feel they have the most to gain from this partial shutdown.



If Obama was serious about ending it he would immediately enter into negotiations like a REAL leader. It is simply not in his interests. If it drags on though his gamble will start to crumble as the public will demand he negotiate with the other side.



What are you anyway? Some partisan Obama PR man? He could end this if he really wanted to.
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Romero on October 08, 2013, 12:41:42 AM
They have negotiated and compromised. The Senate-passed Continuing Resolution was negotiated and compromised to the Republican's very own budget level, and includes continuing the sequester. The Democrats originally wanted a higher budget and an end to the sequester. That's compromise. Republicans got exactly what they wanted, then demanded more - they wanted Obamacare gone too.



Why would Obama agree to that? He was re-elected in part for it, it passed the House and Senate and it was ruled constitutional. Not to mention millions of Americans desperately need the same kind of basic health care we enjoy in the rest of the developed world. I wouldn't want to take health care away from millions of Americans. Would you?  



They've tried to defund Obamacare 41 times and failed each time. Democracy, process and the courts didn't work so now they're holding the entire economy and the American people hostage. Like most Americans and even many Republicans, I'm against this nonsense that the Tea Party is trying to pull.
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Anonymous on October 08, 2013, 01:01:27 AM
^^ President Obama is sitting out one of the most important policy struggles since he entered the White House. With the government shutdown, it has reached the crisis stage. His statement about the shutdown on Tuesday from the White House Rose Garden was more a case of kibitzing than leading. He still refuses to take charge. He won't negotiate with Republicans, though the fate of ObamaCare, funding of the government and the future of the economic recovery are at stake. He insists on staying on the sidelines—well, almost.



Mr. Obama has rejected conciliation and compromise with Republicans. Instead, he attacks them in sharp, partisan language in speech after speech. His approach—dealing with a deadlock by not dealing with it—is unprecedented. He has gone where no president has gone before.



Can anyone imagine an American president—from Lyndon Johnson to Ronald Reagan, from Harry Truman to Bill Clinton—doing this? Of course not. They didn't see presidential leadership as optional. For them and nearly every other president, it was mandatory. It was part of the job, the biggest part.



Obama could at least try to end this by at least talking with Boehner and co, but he won't. It's not in his interests. Boehner wants to talk, so come on Obama and Reid show some leadership.
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Romero on October 08, 2013, 01:21:59 AM
Quote from: "Shen Li"^^ President Obama is sitting out one of the most important policy struggles since he entered the White House. With the government shutdown, it has reached the crisis stage. His statement about the shutdown on Tuesday from the White House Rose Garden was more a case of kibitzing than leading. He still refuses to take charge. He won't negotiate with Republicans, though the fate of ObamaCare, funding of the government and the future of the economic recovery are at stake. He insists on staying on the sidelines—well, almost.



Mr. Obama has rejected conciliation and compromise with Republicans. Instead, he attacks them in sharp, partisan language in speech after speech. His approach—dealing with a deadlock by not dealing with it—is unprecedented. He has gone where no president has gone before.



Can anyone imagine an American president—from Lyndon Johnson to Ronald Reagan, from Harry Truman to Bill Clinton—doing this? Of course not. They didn't see presidential leadership as optional. For them and nearly every other president, it was mandatory. It was part of the job, the biggest part.



Obama could at least try to end this by at least talking with Boehner and co, but he won't. It's not in his interests. Boehner wants to talk, so come on Obama and Reid show some leadership.


It's a fact that the Democrats have negotiated and compromised. It's a fact that they've let go of what they originally wanted and agreed to the Republican's budget and continuing the sequester. It's on record. Democrats wanted more and agreed to less.



Did you know that Obamacare is actually based on Romneycare? It's been working very well in Massachusetts.


QuoteHealth Care Reform Works in Massachusetts and It Will Work in America



by Governor Deval Patrick



As the Affordable Care Act (ACA) takes effect this month, it might be helpful for people to know how its prototype in Massachusetts is working, after nearly seven years.



Virtually every resident in the Commonwealth is insured. More private companies offer insurance to their employees than ever before. Over 90 percent of our residents have a primary care physician. Primary care is less likely to be delivered in expensive emergency rooms. Preventive care is up. Health disparities are down among women, minorities and low-income people. Most importantly, on many measures, we are healthier.



As the ACA is implemented this month, the entire country will begin to enjoy the benefits that we have seen from health care reform here in Massachusetts, and much more. Small businesses benefit from the ACA through new tax credits that make health insurance more affordable. With more carriers and plans to choose from, there is a more competitive rate-setting environment. People with pre-existing conditions can no longer be denied insurance. People who get really sick can no longer be kicked off their insurance. And kids can stay on their parents' plans a bit longer, until they can get their own.



Tea Party Republicans don't want the Affordable Care Act. Do they really mean they don't want these kinds of improvements in the lives of millions of Americans? I don't think so. Would they rather we address these issues with a government program instead of through the market-based, individual choices that are the framework of the ACA? I don't think that's true either. Have they proposed an alternative way to accomplish these goals? Nope. Despite a presidential election, a decision by the United States Supreme Court, and over 40 failed repeal attempts, it's clear that what Tea Party Republicans don't like about Obamacare is the "Obama" part of it.



//http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gov-deval-patrick/massachusetts-health-care-reform-law_b_4057633.html

I think we may both agree on what this really comes down to. Tea Party and other Republicans want to get rid of the Affordable Care Act, and Democrats won't give it up.
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Romero on October 08, 2013, 04:09:13 PM
Surprise, surprise...


QuoteA Crisis Months in the Planning



Shortly after President Obama started his second term, a loose-knit coalition of conservative activists led by former Attorney General Edwin Meese III gathered in the capital to plot strategy. Their push to repeal Mr. Obama's health care law was going nowhere, and they desperately needed a new plan.



Out of that session, held one morning in a location the members insist on keeping secret, came a little-noticed "blueprint to defunding Obamacare (//http)," signed by Mr. Meese and leaders of more than three dozen conservative groups.



It articulated a take-no-prisoners legislative strategy that had long percolated in conservative circles: that Republicans could derail the health care overhaul if conservative lawmakers were willing to push fellow Republicans — including their cautious leaders — into cutting off financing for the entire federal government.



Last week the country witnessed the fallout from that strategy: a standoff that has shuttered much of the federal bureaucracy and unsettled the nation.



A defunding "tool kit" created in early September included talking points for the question, "What happens when you shut down the government and you are blamed for it?" The suggested answer was the one House Republicans give today: "We are simply calling to fund the entire government except for the Affordable Care Act/Obamacare."



//http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/06/us/a-federal-budget-crisis-months-in-the-planning.html?_r=1&
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Anonymous on October 08, 2013, 09:25:07 PM
Obama's refusal to negotiate is not sustainable and shows an incredible dereliction of duty for a leader.
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Renee on October 09, 2013, 10:57:58 AM
Quote from: "Romero"Surprise, surprise...


QuoteA Crisis Months in the Planning



Shortly after President Obama started his second term, a loose-knit coalition of conservative activists led by former Attorney General Edwin Meese III gathered in the capital to plot strategy. Their push to repeal Mr. Obama's health care law was going nowhere, and they desperately needed a new plan.



Out of that session, held one morning in a location the members insist on keeping secret, came a little-noticed "blueprint to defunding Obamacare (//http)," signed by Mr. Meese and leaders of more than three dozen conservative groups.



It articulated a take-no-prisoners legislative strategy that had long percolated in conservative circles: that Republicans could derail the health care overhaul if conservative lawmakers were willing to push fellow Republicans — including their cautious leaders — into cutting off financing for the entire federal government.



Last week the country witnessed the fallout from that strategy: a standoff that has shuttered much of the federal bureaucracy and unsettled the nation.



A defunding "tool kit" created in early September included talking points for the question, "What happens when you shut down the government and you are blamed for it?" The suggested answer was the one House Republicans give today: "We are simply calling to fund the entire government except for the Affordable Care Act/Obamacare."



//http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/06/us/a-federal-budget-crisis-months-in-the-planning.html?_r=1&


Wow, did you JUST find out that important political strategies AREN'T hatched in the spur of the moment?  :lol:
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Romero on October 09, 2013, 01:01:34 PM
Quote from: "Renee"
Quote from: "Romero"Surprise, surprise...


QuoteA Crisis Months in the Planning



Shortly after President Obama started his second term, a loose-knit coalition of conservative activists led by former Attorney General Edwin Meese III gathered in the capital to plot strategy. Their push to repeal Mr. Obama's health care law was going nowhere, and they desperately needed a new plan.



Out of that session, held one morning in a location the members insist on keeping secret, came a little-noticed "blueprint to defunding Obamacare (//http)," signed by Mr. Meese and leaders of more than three dozen conservative groups.



It articulated a take-no-prisoners legislative strategy that had long percolated in conservative circles: that Republicans could derail the health care overhaul if conservative lawmakers were willing to push fellow Republicans — including their cautious leaders — into cutting off financing for the entire federal government.



Last week the country witnessed the fallout from that strategy: a standoff that has shuttered much of the federal bureaucracy and unsettled the nation.



A defunding "tool kit" created in early September included talking points for the question, "What happens when you shut down the government and you are blamed for it?" The suggested answer was the one House Republicans give today: "We are simply calling to fund the entire government except for the Affordable Care Act/Obamacare."



//http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/06/us/a-federal-budget-crisis-months-in-the-planning.html?_r=1&


Wow, did you JUST find out that important political strategies AREN'T hatched in the spur of the moment?  :lol:

Thanks, Renee! I appreciate it. More:


QuoteOn the budget impasse, the speaker acknowledged that in July he had gone to the Senate majority leader Harry Reid, and offered to have the House pass a clean financing resolution. His proposal would have set spending levels $70 billion lower than Democrats wanted, but would have had no contentious add-ons like changing the health care law.



Democrats accepted, but they say that Mr. Boehner then reneged under pressure from Tea Party conservatives.



"I and my members decided the threat of Obamacare" was so great, Mr. Boehner said, "that it was time for us to take a stand. And we took a stand."



//http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/07/us/politics/obama-aide-urges-lawmakers-to-raise-debt-ceiling.html?_r=0

 So enough with the "Obama won't negotiate or compromise" crap. Democrats had agreed to everything Republicans wanted.



Boehner and the Republicans are lying. It couldn't be any more clear and obvious. They were more than willing to shut down the government.



And now Republicans are saying defaulting isn't a big deal. Nothing to worry about.



Remember that when it happens.
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Romero on October 09, 2013, 03:25:08 PM
Quote104 Current Congressional Republicans Voted to Increase Debt Ceiling Under Bush—Without Hostage Threats



Speaker John Boehner (R-OH)  reiterated on Sunday that House Republicans would not allow a clean vote to raise the debt limit and ensure the full faith and credit of the United States of America. But while now Congressional Republicans demand everything from the  destruction of the Affordable Care Act to a  constitutional amendment in exchange for allowing the government to pay for what it has already incurred, many of them made no such demands nine years ago when a Republican was in the White House.



Boehner says that Congressional Republicans "are not going to pass a clean debt limit increase" because "it is time to deal with America's problems." But in 2004, he joined with 205 other House Republicans to pass S. 2986, a bill that added $800 billion to the nation's statutory debt ceiling with no strings attached.



In total, Congressional Republican leaders backed five separate debt ceiling increases during Bush's eight years in the White House.



//http://www.alternet.org/tea-party-and-right/104-current-congressional-republicans-who-voted-increase-debt-ceiling-under-bush
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Romero on October 09, 2013, 06:48:47 PM
Quote With the Republican-controlled House of Representatives engaged in a tense, government-shuttering budgetary standoff against a Democratic president and Senate, the Republican Party is now viewed favorably by 28% of Americans, down from 38% in September. This is the lowest favorable rating measured for either party since Gallup began asking this question in 1992.



More than six in 10 Americans (62%) now view the GOP unfavorably, a record high.



//http://www.gallup.com/poll/165317/republican-party-favorability-sinks-record-low.aspx
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Anonymous on October 09, 2013, 09:32:31 PM
When Democrats control both houses you get deficits. When you have the most fiscally reckless president since WW2 (Obama) you get record recklessness.
QuoteMany leading Democrats in Washington these days like to point to the fact that the federal budget was balanced for part of the time that President Bill Clinton was in office. What they do not mention is that those balanced budgets occurred only when Republicans controlled both houses of Congress.



In fact, according to the historical data published by the Office of Management and Budget in the Obama White House, no Congress in which the Democrats controlled both the House and Senate has balanced the federal budget since fiscal 1969--more than 40 years ago.

More recently, the federal budget was balanced in fiscal years 1998, 1999, 2000 and 2001. A Republican-controlled Congress approved the appropriations for each one of those years and Democratic President Bill Clinton signed them. In fiscal years 1994 and 1995, when President Clinton governed with a Democrat-controlled Congress, the federal government ran deficits of $203.2 billion and $163.9 billion respectively.



The Republican majority Congress elected in November 1994 presided over two fiscal years with declining deficits—fiscal 1996 and 1997—before it initially balanced the budget in fiscal 1998. In fiscal 1996 and 1997, the deficits were $107.4 billion and $21.9 billion respectively.

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/no-democrat-controlled-congress-has-balanced-federal-budget-40-years-no-republican

(//%3C/s%3E%3CURL%20url=%22http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-rquseZUzOMY/UCGHTvmzgII/AAAAAAAAApU/DCB0TExbPoE/s1600/Congress%2BDebt.JPG%22%3E%3CLINK_TEXT%20text=%22http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-rquseZUzOMY/U%20...%202BDebt.JPG%22%3Ehttp://1.bp.blogspot.com/-rquseZUzOMY/UCGHTvmzgII/AAAAAAAAApU/DCB0TExbPoE/s1600/Congress%2BDebt.JPG%3C/LINK_TEXT%3E%3C/URL%3E%3Ce%3E)
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Romero on October 15, 2013, 11:33:50 PM
QuoteHouse Fails On Debt Deal As Conservative Groups Balk



Conservative tea party-aligned groups shot down House Republicans' ill-starred proposal keep the government open Tuesday, forcing GOP leaders to turn to the Senate to reopen the government and prevent the nation from defaulting on its debt. The Treasury Department has warned that America is in danger of failing to meet its obligations starting Thursday, risking economic calamity.



House leaders had set a 5:40 p.m. rules hearing to move ahead, but canceled it after the Heritage Foundation, Red State and FreedomWorks all slammed the GOP proposal as unacceptable.



"It was hard for them to get the votes anyway, and then when Heritage came out, that killed it," said Rep. Pete King (R-N.Y.), who has opposed the House GOP strategy of trying to using government funding and the debt ceiling as leverage to defund Obamacare.



The rejection by the tea party base was a stunning blow to Boehner, who at first tried to head off a damaging showdown in early September, but then embraced the right-wing attempt after members of his caucus rebelled. He stuck with the doomed bid, even while more than two dozen of his moderate members pleaded for him to relent and Republican poll numbers plummeted.



Democrats were flabbergasted by the sudden collapse.



"Who's calling the shots here? Ted Cruz? Heritage Action?" said Rep. Peter Welch (D-Vt.) "Who knows, but it sure isn't John Boehner. They had a plan and they withdrew the plan right after Heritage Action denounced the plan."



King said he hoped the Senate could act, but noted that Texas Republican Ted Cruz and conservative allies could obstruct the process there.



"This party is going nuts," King said. "So many people I run into who are normal people -- and I hate to use that term -- they just can't understand what's going on. They just think Republicans are crazy. That's it. They see no justification for any of this."



//http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/15/house-debt-deal-fails_n_4103021.html?utm_hp_ref=canada&ir=Canada
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Romero on October 17, 2013, 03:19:01 AM
The shutdown and default are all finally over! Only until friggin' January, unfortunately. Why the economic crisis every few months? It sure ain't helping capitalism and the American Dream any.



It's incredible to believe so many alleged leaders just wanted to "shut it down", having no idea or even caring about how the American people and economy would certainly suffer.



"It's exactly what we wanted, and we got it. This is about the happiest I've seen members in a long time..."

- Tea Party founder/Republican Michele Bachmann



81 Democrat and moderate Republican senators voted against the shutdown, default, economic disaster and suffering, while 18 Tea Bagger Republicans voted for continuing it. 285 Democrat and moderate Republican representatives voted against this nonsense, while 144 Tea Bagger Republicans voted for it.



President Obama immediately signed the bill. Wanted to weeks ago.



Obamacare is not only going to happen even after failing to repeal it 41 times and ruled constitutional by the right-leaning Supreme Court, it took effect on the very day this ridiculous shutdown started.



Republican and Tea Partier ratings are at all time lows.



It didn't have to be this way. But maybe it's for the best that Americans have gotten this wake up call. We'll see what's next within a few months.
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Anonymous on October 17, 2013, 09:00:55 AM
Quote from: "Romero"The shutdown and default are all finally over! Only until friggin' January, unfortunately. Why the economic crisis every few months? It sure ain't helping capitalism and the American Dream any.



It's incredible to believe so many alleged leaders just wanted to "shut it down", having no idea or even caring about how the American people and economy would certainly suffer.

"It's exactly what we wanted, and we got it. This is about the happiest I've seen members in a long time..."

- Tea Party founder/Republican Michele Bachmann



81 Democrat and moderate Republican senators voted against the shutdown, default, economic disaster and suffering, while 18 Tea Bagger Republicans voted for continuing it. 285 Democrat and moderate Republican representatives voted against this nonsense, while 144 Tea Bagger Republicans voted for it.



President Obama immediately signed the bill. Wanted to weeks ago.



Obamacare is not only going to happen even after failing to repeal it 41 times and ruled constitutional by the right-leaning Supreme Court, it took effect on the very day this ridiculous shutdown started.



Republican and Tea Partier ratings are at all time lows.



It didn't have to be this way. But maybe it's for the best that Americans have gotten this wake up call. We'll see what's next within a few months.

And the person that wanted the shutdown more than any other is that inept hero of yours Barack Obama. Was he winning? Well he and fellow scumbag Harry Reid were able to blame Obongo's intransigence on their political opposition, so Dem games worked out. Just boggles the mind a so-called prez refused to negotiate. He is incapable of running a lemonade stand. The Dems should not have picked someone so incapable to be their leader.



OBAMA IS THE WORST PREZ THE USA HAS EVER HAD.
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Renee on October 17, 2013, 12:12:42 PM
Quote from: "Shen Li"
Quote from: "Romero"The shutdown and default are all finally over! Only until friggin' January, unfortunately. Why the economic crisis every few months? It sure ain't helping capitalism and the American Dream any.



It's incredible to believe so many alleged leaders just wanted to "shut it down", having no idea or even caring about how the American people and economy would certainly suffer.

"It's exactly what we wanted, and we got it. This is about the happiest I've seen members in a long time..."

- Tea Party founder/Republican Michele Bachmann



81 Democrat and moderate Republican senators voted against the shutdown, default, economic disaster and suffering, while 18 Tea Bagger Republicans voted for continuing it. 285 Democrat and moderate Republican representatives voted against this nonsense, while 144 Tea Bagger Republicans voted for it.



President Obama immediately signed the bill. Wanted to weeks ago.



Obamacare is not only going to happen even after failing to repeal it 41 times and ruled constitutional by the right-leaning Supreme Court, it took effect on the very day this ridiculous shutdown started.



Republican and Tea Partier ratings are at all time lows.



It didn't have to be this way. But maybe it's for the best that Americans have gotten this wake up call. We'll see what's next within a few months.

And the person that wanted the shutdown more than any other is that inept hero of yours Barack Obama. Was he winning? Well he and fellow scumbag Harry Reid were able to blame Obongo's intransigence on their political opposition, so Dem games worked out. Just boggles the mind a so-called prez refused to negotiate. He is incapable of running a lemonade stand. The Dems should not have picked someone so incapable to be their leader.



OBAMA IS THE WORST PREZ THE USA HAS EVER HAD.


Yeah but he is the best far left community organizer we've ever had in the Oval Office.  :lol:
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Odinson on October 17, 2013, 12:27:17 PM
Why can´t the nigger loving liberals move to african jungle... It´s like nigger heaven in there.



Not that I don´t like paying for some useless limping niggers and a bunch of fatherless biracial babies sprung out by walking white diabetes´s aka fat white whales.
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Renee on October 17, 2013, 12:45:57 PM
Quote from: "Odinson"Why can´t the nigger loving liberals move to african jungle... It´s like nigger heaven in there.



Not that I don´t like paying for some useless limping niggers and a bunch of fatherless biracial babies sprung out by walking white diabetes´s aka fat white whales.


A better question is; why can't ignorant, racist, little man-boy, assholes like you just shut the fuck up?
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Anonymous on October 17, 2013, 01:26:10 PM
Quote from: "Renee"
Quote from: "Shen Li"
Quote from: "Romero"The shutdown and default are all finally over! Only until friggin' January, unfortunately. Why the economic crisis every few months? It sure ain't helping capitalism and the American Dream any.



It's incredible to believe so many alleged leaders just wanted to "shut it down", having no idea or even caring about how the American people and economy would certainly suffer.

"It's exactly what we wanted, and we got it. This is about the happiest I've seen members in a long time..."

- Tea Party founder/Republican Michele Bachmann



81 Democrat and moderate Republican senators voted against the shutdown, default, economic disaster and suffering, while 18 Tea Bagger Republicans voted for continuing it. 285 Democrat and moderate Republican representatives voted against this nonsense, while 144 Tea Bagger Republicans voted for it.



President Obama immediately signed the bill. Wanted to weeks ago.



Obamacare is not only going to happen even after failing to repeal it 41 times and ruled constitutional by the right-leaning Supreme Court, it took effect on the very day this ridiculous shutdown started.



Republican and Tea Partier ratings are at all time lows.



It didn't have to be this way. But maybe it's for the best that Americans have gotten this wake up call. We'll see what's next within a few months.

And the person that wanted the shutdown more than any other is that inept hero of yours Barack Obama. Was he winning? Well he and fellow scumbag Harry Reid were able to blame Obongo's intransigence on their political opposition, so Dem games worked out. Just boggles the mind a so-called prez refused to negotiate. He is incapable of running a lemonade stand. The Dems should not have picked someone so incapable to be their leader.



OBAMA IS THE WORST PREZ THE USA HAS EVER HAD.


Yeah but he is the best far left community organizer we've ever had in the Oval Office.  :lol:

It's funny that Romero feigns concern for people pouring milkshakes for  living because those are exactly the kinda jobs created under Obama's incredibly inept leadership.
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Odinson on October 17, 2013, 01:37:01 PM
Quote from: "Renee"
Quote from: "Odinson"Why can´t the nigger loving liberals move to african jungle... It´s like nigger heaven in there.



Not that I don´t like paying for some useless limping niggers and a bunch of fatherless biracial babies sprung out by walking white diabetes´s aka fat white whales.


A better question is; why can't ignorant, racist, little man-boy, assholes like you just shut the fuck up?


How am I ignorant? Are they not over 90% unemployed? Are they not dominating the rape stats? Are they not dominating the STD stats?

Are they not liberals/commies/hippies by default?



Shouting racism in todays athmosphere is the easiest way but that doesn´t solve the problem now does it...



When a fawcett is leaking, do you want to fix it or do you just pay the excess amount of money forever?
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Romero on October 17, 2013, 03:26:21 PM
Quote from: "Odinson"How am I ignorant? Are they not over 90% unemployed? Are they not dominating the rape stats? Are they not dominating the STD stats?

Are they not liberals/commies/hippies by default?

Wrong, wrong, wrong and wrong. And we know you hate black males. So you are indeed ignorant and racist.
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Renee on October 17, 2013, 05:18:26 PM
Quote from: "Shen Li"
Quote from: "Renee"
Quote from: "Shen Li"
And the person that wanted the shutdown more than any other is that inept hero of yours Barack Obama. Was he winning? Well he and fellow scumbag Harry Reid were able to blame Obongo's intransigence on their political opposition, so Dem games worked out. Just boggles the mind a so-called prez refused to negotiate. He is incapable of running a lemonade stand. The Dems should not have picked someone so incapable to be their leader.



OBAMA IS THE WORST PREZ THE USA HAS EVER HAD.


Yeah but he is the best far left community organizer we've ever had in the Oval Office.  :lol:

It's funny that Romero feigns concern for people pouring milkshakes for a living because those are exactly the kinda jobs created under Obama's incredibly inept leadership.

 

Liberals don't want people to succeed because then they become the enemy. When you start making money and you start to see that your tax burden is increasing with each raise in pay you receive you start to resent the fact that you are being ripped off so that others can sit around and do nothing. For most people with a brain, that's when all that liberal horseshit you are fed in school about leveling the playing field and fairness at the expense of people who succeed goes down the shitter.



Liberals don't want people to make money, they want them to make just enough to survive and keep voting for the handout gang and their bankrupt ideology. Liberals think the pursuit of personal wealth is evil and amoral especially if you don't feel like giving half of it away to those who stick their hands out every chance they get. Romero is an example of exactly that. He thinks if the minimum wage is raised in the US is raised to $12 dollars an hour everything will be A-Okay. Of course it will because it will keep hundreds of thousands of people IN minimum wage jobs. He knows that there are tons of low info liberal public school educated voters out there that think if you can make $12 or $14 dollars an hour at your job at the car wash and then augment it with something like food stamps, why would you look for something better. You will keep surviving at a subsistence level and keep blaming the rich for you predicament and keep voting the liberal ticket.

 

Sorry to go off on a rant but that's the simple truth. That's exactly how those people think and that's exactly how they roll. They want a population that is barely surviving and beholden to the federal government
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Anonymous on October 17, 2013, 05:30:09 PM
Quote from: "Renee"
Quote from: "Shen Li"
Quote from: "Renee"


Yeah but he is the best far left community organizer we've ever had in the Oval Office.  :lol:

It's funny that Romero feigns concern for people pouring milkshakes for a living because those are exactly the kinda jobs created under Obama's incredibly inept leadership.

 

Liberals don't want people to succeed because then they become the enemy. When you start making money and you start to see that your tax burden is increasing with each raise in pay you receive you start to resent the fact that you are being ripped off so that others can sit around and do nothing. For most people with a brain, that's when all that liberal horseshit you are fed in school about leveling the playing field and fairness at the expense of people who succeed goes down the shitter.



Liberals don't want people to make money, they want them to make just enough to survive and keep voting for the handout gang and their bankrupt ideology. Liberals think the pursuit of personal wealth is evil and amoral especially if you don't feel like giving half of it away to those who stick their hands out every chance they get. Romero is an example of exactly that. He thinks if the minimum wage is raised in the US is raised to $12 dollars an hour everything will be A-Okay. Of course it will because it will keep hundreds of thousands of people IN minimum wage jobs. He knows that there are tons of low info liberal public school educated voters out there that think if you can make $12 or $14 dollars an hour at your job at the car wash and then augment it with something like food stamps, why would you look for something better. You will keep surviving at a subsistence level and keep blaming the rich for you predicament and keep voting the liberal ticket.

 

Sorry to go off on a rant but that's the simple truth. That's exactly how those people think and that's exactly how they roll. They want a population that is barely surviving and beholden to the federal government

The effect of raising minimum wage will be fewer people being hired in entry-level jobs and more going out of business signs placed on little mom and pop shops.
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Romero on October 17, 2013, 05:33:01 PM
Quote from: "Renee"Liberals don't want people to succeed because then they become the enemy. When you start making money and you start to see that your tax burden is increasing with each raise in pay you receive you start to resent the fact that you are being ripped off so that others can sit around and do nothing. For most people with a brain, that's when all that liberal horseshit you are fed in school about leveling the playing field and fairness at the expense of people who succeed goes down the shitter.



Liberals don't want people to make money, they want them to make just enough to survive and keep voting for the handout gang and their bankrupt ideology. Liberals think the pursuit of personal wealth is evil and amoral especially if you don't feel like giving half of it away to those who stick their hands out every chance they get. Romero is an example of exactly that. He thinks if the minimum wage is raised in the US is raised to $12 dollars an hour everything will be A-Okay. Of course it will because it will keep hundreds of thousands of people IN minimum wage jobs. He knows that there are tons of low info liberal public school educated voters out there that think if you can make $12 or $14 dollars an hour at your job at the car wash and then augment it with something like food stamps, why would you look for something better. You will keep surviving at a subsistence level and keep blaming the rich for you predicament and keep voting the liberal ticket.

 

Sorry to go off on a rant but that's the simple truth. That's exactly how those people think and that's exactly how they roll. They want a population that is barely surviving and beholden to the federal government

So your argument against raising the minimum wage is liberals don't want people to make money. Classic.


Quote from: "Shen Li"The effect of raising minimum wage will be fewer people being hired in entry-level jobs and more going out of business signs placed on little mom and pop shops.

Unemployment is lower in Canada where the minimum wage is higher. Nobody in their right mind would argue that Canada's minimum wage should be a paltry $7.25/hour.
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Renee on October 17, 2013, 05:52:17 PM
Quote from: "Odinson"
Quote from: "Renee"
Quote from: "Odinson"Why can´t the nigger loving liberals move to african jungle... It´s like nigger heaven in there.



Not that I don´t like paying for some useless limping niggers and a bunch of fatherless biracial babies sprung out by walking white diabetes´s aka fat white whales.


A better question is; why can't ignorant, racist, little man-boy, assholes like you just shut the fuck up?


How am I ignorant? Are they not over 90% unemployed? Are they not dominating the rape stats? Are they not dominating the STD stats?

Are they not liberals/commies/hippies by default?



Shouting racism in todays athmosphere is the easiest way but that doesn´t solve the problem now does it...



When a fawcett is leaking, do you want to fix it or do you just pay the excess amount of money forever?


Yeah know, you CAN get your point across and not use all those racist terms that make you look like an uneducated, ignorant, scumbag. Truth be told, I'm not exactly fond of where the black community as a whole has landed itself in recent years and I despise the culture of ignorance and violence and misogyny that they so openly worship but I can express my displeasure and criticism without looking like a FUCKING member of the KKK.

 

I guess that's the real difference between an intelligent, rational, and educated person and someone like you.
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Renee on October 17, 2013, 05:53:36 PM
Quote from: "Shen Li"
Quote from: "Renee"
Quote from: "Shen Li"
It's funny that Romero feigns concern for people pouring milkshakes for a living because those are exactly the kinda jobs created under Obama's incredibly inept leadership.

 

Liberals don't want people to succeed because then they become the enemy. When you start making money and you start to see that your tax burden is increasing with each raise in pay you receive you start to resent the fact that you are being ripped off so that others can sit around and do nothing. For most people with a brain, that's when all that liberal horseshit you are fed in school about leveling the playing field and fairness at the expense of people who succeed goes down the shitter.



Liberals don't want people to make money, they want them to make just enough to survive and keep voting for the handout gang and their bankrupt ideology. Liberals think the pursuit of personal wealth is evil and amoral especially if you don't feel like giving half of it away to those who stick their hands out every chance they get. Romero is an example of exactly that. He thinks if the minimum wage is raised in the US is raised to $12 dollars an hour everything will be A-Okay. Of course it will because it will keep hundreds of thousands of people IN minimum wage jobs. He knows that there are tons of low info liberal public school educated voters out there that think if you can make $12 or $14 dollars an hour at your job at the car wash and then augment it with something like food stamps, why would you look for something better. You will keep surviving at a subsistence level and keep blaming the rich for you predicament and keep voting the liberal ticket.

 

Sorry to go off on a rant but that's the simple truth. That's exactly how those people think and that's exactly how they roll. They want a population that is barely surviving and beholden to the federal government

The effect of raising minimum wage will be fewer people being hired in entry-level jobs and more going out of business signs placed on little mom and pop shops.


That's the reality but that's not how people like Romero think.
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Renee on October 17, 2013, 06:02:05 PM
Quote from: "Romero"
Quote from: "Renee"Liberals don't want people to succeed because then they become the enemy. When you start making money and you start to see that your tax burden is increasing with each raise in pay you receive you start to resent the fact that you are being ripped off so that others can sit around and do nothing. For most people with a brain, that's when all that liberal horseshit you are fed in school about leveling the playing field and fairness at the expense of people who succeed goes down the shitter.



Liberals don't want people to make money, they want them to make just enough to survive and keep voting for the handout gang and their bankrupt ideology. Liberals think the pursuit of personal wealth is evil and amoral especially if you don't feel like giving half of it away to those who stick their hands out every chance they get. Romero is an example of exactly that. He thinks if the minimum wage is raised in the US is raised to $12 dollars an hour everything will be A-Okay. Of course it will because it will keep hundreds of thousands of people IN minimum wage jobs. He knows that there are tons of low info liberal public school educated voters out there that think if you can make $12 or $14 dollars an hour at your job at the car wash and then augment it with something like food stamps, why would you look for something better. You will keep surviving at a subsistence level and keep blaming the rich for you predicament and keep voting the liberal ticket.



Sorry to go off on a rant but that's the simple truth. That's exactly how those people think and that's exactly how they roll. They want a population that is barely surviving and beholden to the federal government

So your argument against raising the minimum wage is liberals don't want people to make money. Classic.


Quote from: "Shen Li"The effect of raising minimum wage will be fewer people being hired in entry-level jobs and more going out of business signs placed on little mom and pop shops.

Unemployment is lower in Canada where the minimum wage is higher. Nobody in their right mind would argue that Canada's minimum wage should be a paltry $7.25/hour.


Unemployment is lower in Canada because you don't have a certain significant racial community that has a 16 to 20% unemployment rate. Unemployment is lower in Canada because you don't have illegals pouring across your borders in waves taking American jobs. The minimum wage has nothing to do with employment rates. The fact of the matter is that the US has 3 times the population of Canada and NO real job creation since the liberal Messiah took office.



BTW, you know damn well that liberals only want people to make just enough to survive. You clowns hate people who make more money than the average because it flies in the face of your philosophy of the level playing field. It's completely counter to your ideas of fairness and a financially equal society. You refuse to believe that the widening gap between the "haves" and "have nots" is caused by the fact that there are too many people that expect something for nothing. To you the rich are the bad guys. You think nothing of punishing people for their hard work or their ambition to succeed because you want a world where everyone rises up to the level of mediocrity and never goes any further.
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Anonymous on October 17, 2013, 06:04:12 PM
Quote from: "Renee"
Quote from: "Shen Li"
Quote from: "Renee"
 

Liberals don't want people to succeed because then they become the enemy. When you start making money and you start to see that your tax burden is increasing with each raise in pay you receive you start to resent the fact that you are being ripped off so that others can sit around and do nothing. For most people with a brain, that's when all that liberal horseshit you are fed in school about leveling the playing field and fairness at the expense of people who succeed goes down the shitter.



Liberals don't want people to make money, they want them to make just enough to survive and keep voting for the handout gang and their bankrupt ideology. Liberals think the pursuit of personal wealth is evil and amoral especially if you don't feel like giving half of it away to those who stick their hands out every chance they get. Romero is an example of exactly that. He thinks if the minimum wage is raised in the US is raised to $12 dollars an hour everything will be A-Okay. Of course it will because it will keep hundreds of thousands of people IN minimum wage jobs. He knows that there are tons of low info liberal public school educated voters out there that think if you can make $12 or $14 dollars an hour at your job at the car wash and then augment it with something like food stamps, why would you look for something better. You will keep surviving at a subsistence level and keep blaming the rich for you predicament and keep voting the liberal ticket.

 

Sorry to go off on a rant but that's the simple truth. That's exactly how those people think and that's exactly how they roll. They want a population that is barely surviving and beholden to the federal government

The effect of raising minimum wage will be fewer people being hired in entry-level jobs and more going out of business signs placed on little mom and pop shops.


That's the reality but that's not how people like Romero think.

There are so many different things the prez and congress could be doing to stimulate GOOD job creation. Raising costs for mom and pop businesses is definitely not one of them.
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Anonymous on October 17, 2013, 06:09:47 PM
Quote from: "Renee"Unemployment is lower in Canada because you don't have a certain significant racial community that has a 16 to 20% unemployment rate. Unemployment is lower in Canada because you don't have illegals pouring across your borders in waves taking American jobs. The minimum wage has nothing to do with employment rates. The fact of the matter is that the US has 3 times the population of Canada and NO real job creation since the liberal Messiah took office.

I am going to have to correct you on a few things here Renee.



The unemployment rate for Aboriginals in Canada was just under 15% in 2006. Our population is about 34 million while the USA is about 312 million. We also have a fair number of illegal workers in this country. Some industries like residential construction and landscaping in certain cities have large numbers of people working illegally.



I do agree though about Obama's abysmal record. He is the first prez to come out of recession without a single quarter of 4% growth. This is despite the boom in the natural resource sector in the USA.
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Romero on October 17, 2013, 06:27:38 PM
Quote from: "Renee"Unemployment is lower in Canada because you don't have a certain significant racial community that has a 16 to 20% unemployment rate.



The fact of the matter is that the US has 3 times the population of Canada and NO real job creation since the liberal Messiah took office.

Which "significant racial community" is that? I don't see any race at 16-20% unemployment.



There have been more jobs created under Obama than by George W. Bush.
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Renee on October 17, 2013, 06:41:30 PM
Quote from: "Shen Li"
Quote from: "Renee"Unemployment is lower in Canada because you don't have a certain significant racial community that has a 16 to 20% unemployment rate. Unemployment is lower in Canada because you don't have illegals pouring across your borders in waves taking American jobs. The minimum wage has nothing to do with employment rates. The fact of the matter is that the US has 3 times the population of Canada and NO real job creation since the liberal Messiah took office.

I am going to have to correct you on a few things here Renee.



The unemployment rate for Aboriginals in Canada was just under 15% in 2006. Our population is about 34 million while the USA is about 312 million. We also have a fair number of illegal workers in this country. Some industries like residential construction and landscaping in certain cities have large numbers of people working illegally.



I do agree though about Obama's abysmal record. He is the first prez to come out of recession without a single quarter of 4% growth. This is despite the boom in the natural resource sector in the USA.


Some industries? In the US it's just about ALL industries. I'm pretty sure Canada's illegal population doesn't even make a blip on the radar screen compared to the illegal population in the US. Not only that once many of the illegals come to the US and get a job they only work for a short time or work seasonal jobs and the rest of the time they jump on the unemployment and welfare rolls. Now you're probably thinking "Renee how can illegals collect unemployment and welfare?" Well they can and they do because all they need is a tax ID number or social security card and can show that they were once employed for the minimum time frame for eligibility.



It doesn't matter that their doc are false because the state unemployment agencies do not have the time or the manpower to check each and every application for fraud.



43% of all Food Stamps issued are to illegal aliens

41% of all unemployment checks issued in the U.S. are to illegal aliens

58% of all Welfare payments in the United States are issued to illegal aliens

https://wiki-land.wikispaces.com/Persuasive-+illegal+immigrants
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Anonymous on October 17, 2013, 06:47:13 PM
Quote from: "Romero"
Quote from: "Renee"Unemployment is lower in Canada because you don't have a certain significant racial community that has a 16 to 20% unemployment rate.



The fact of the matter is that the US has 3 times the population of Canada and NO real job creation since the liberal Messiah took office.

Which "significant racial community" is that? I don't see any race currently at 16-20% unemployment.



There have been more jobs created under Obama than by George W. Bush.

That is grossly misleading and you know it. Bush left office at the height of the recession when jobs were being shed by the millions. Obama is the only president in history to oversee 54 consecutive months of unemployment over 7.5 percent. The highest unemployment rate during President Bush's entire eight years in office was his last month at 7.8%.



Again, Obama is the worst prez in US history.
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Anonymous on October 17, 2013, 06:56:00 PM
Quote from: "Renee"
Quote from: "Shen Li"
Quote from: "Renee"Unemployment is lower in Canada because you don't have a certain significant racial community that has a 16 to 20% unemployment rate. Unemployment is lower in Canada because you don't have illegals pouring across your borders in waves taking American jobs. The minimum wage has nothing to do with employment rates. The fact of the matter is that the US has 3 times the population of Canada and NO real job creation since the liberal Messiah took office.

I am going to have to correct you on a few things here Renee.



The unemployment rate for Aboriginals in Canada was just under 15% in 2006. Our population is about 34 million while the USA is about 312 million. We also have a fair number of illegal workers in this country. Some industries like residential construction and landscaping in certain cities have large numbers of people working illegally.



I do agree though about Obama's abysmal record. He is the first prez to come out of recession without a single quarter of 4% growth. This is despite the boom in the natural resource sector in the USA.


Some industries? In the US it's just about ALL industries. I'm pretty sure Canada's illegal population doesn't even make a blip on the radar screen compared to the illegal population in the US. Not only that once many of the illegals come to the US and get a job they only work for a short time or work seasonal jobs and the rest of the time they jump on the unemployment and welfare rolls. Now you're probably thinking "Renee how can illegals collect unemployment and welfare?" Well they can and they do because all they need is a tax ID number or social security card and can show that they were once employed for the minimum time frame for eligibility.



It doesn't matter that their doc are false because the state unemployment agencies do not have the time or the manpower to check each and every application for fraud.



43% of all Food Stamps issued are to illegal aliens

41% of all unemployment checks issued in the U.S. are to illegal aliens

58% of all Welfare payments in the United States are issued to illegal aliens https://wiki-land.wikispaces.com/Persuasive-+illegal+immigrants

Oh fuck would I be pissed if I was an American citizen. As an immigrant to Canada I get really angry that people can use our refugee claimant system as backdoor entry into Canada. Should never be allowed to happen. I give kudos to the feds for at least trying to clamp down on that.
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Renee on October 17, 2013, 06:59:40 PM
Quote from: "Romero"
Quote from: "Renee"Unemployment is lower in Canada because you don't have a certain significant racial community that has a 16 to 20% unemployment rate.



The fact of the matter is that the US has 3 times the population of Canada and NO real job creation since the liberal Messiah took office.

Which "significant racial community" is that? I don't see any race at 16-20% unemployment.



There have been more jobs created under Obama than by George W. Bush.


This from 2011 and things sure as shit haven't improved much in two years for blacks.



"While unemployment among the general population is about 9.1 percent, it's at 16.2 percent African Americans, and a bit higher still for African American males."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-20072425.html



"It soared over the first three years of Obama's first term to 16.7 percent by September 2011 (the worst jobless rate for black Americans since 1983). Unemployment among black teenagers exploded to 39.3 percent in July, 2012"



http://townhall.com/columnists/donaldlambro/2013/03/29/black-leaders-open-fire-on-obama-over-unemployment-n1552206/page/full



BTW, most of the jobs created under Obama have been those minimum wage jobs that you have been crying about, oh and the others are part time jobs. Not only that the claim that under Obama more jobs have been created than under Bush is only a half-truth according to Politifact.com. It's a statement based on one metric of job creation and ignores the others that are less favorable. It's all leftwing word games designed to fool their low-info voter base.



http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/jul/26/barack-obama/barack-obama-says-businesses-have-created-nearly-t/
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Romero on October 17, 2013, 07:07:58 PM
Quote from: "Shen Li"
Quote from: "Romero"
Quote from: "Renee"Unemployment is lower in Canada because you don't have a certain significant racial community that has a 16 to 20% unemployment rate.



The fact of the matter is that the US has 3 times the population of Canada and NO real job creation since the liberal Messiah took office.

Which "significant racial community" is that? I don't see any race currently at 16-20% unemployment.



There have been more jobs created under Obama than by George W. Bush.

That is grossly misleading and you know it.

No it's not. Obama has created more jobs than GW Bush.


QuoteThe economy has added more jobs since Obama took office than it did in his predecessor's entire eight years in office.



//http://www.factcheck.org/2013/04/obamas-numbers-quarterly-update/

Quote from: "Renee"43% of all Food Stamps issued are to illegal aliens

41% of all unemployment checks issued in the U.S. are to illegal aliens

58% of all Welfare payments in the United States are issued to illegal aliens

https://wiki-land.wikispaces.com/Persuasive-+illegal+immigrants

Ugh. A bunch of anti-immigrant nonsense. Undocumented immigrants are not allowed to receive food stamps, unemployment checks or welfare. I can't believe you would fall for those ridiculous numbers.
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Anonymous on October 17, 2013, 07:09:27 PM
Quote from: "Renee"["It soared over the first three years of Obama's first term to 16.7 percent by September 2011 (the worst jobless rate for black Americans since 1983). Unemployment among black teenagers exploded to 39.3 percent in July, 2012"



http://townhall.com/columnists/donaldlambro/2013/03/29/black-leaders-open-fire-on-obama-over-unemployment-n1552206/page/full



BTW, most of the jobs created under Obama have been those minimum wage jobs that you have been crying about, oh and the others are part time jobs. Not only that the claim that under Obama more jobs have been created than under Bush is only a half-truth according to Politifact.com. It's a statement based on one metric of job creation and ignores the others that are less favorable. It's all leftwing word games designed to fool their low-info voter base.



http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/jul/26/barack-obama/barack-obama-says-businesses-have-created-nearly-t/

Bush's average black unemployment rate was 9.7 percent and an overall national average of 5.2 percent. Obama's lowest rate was 12.7 percent. When Bush was reelected unemployment was 5.4% while Odumbo was something like 8%.



The Bureau of Labor Statistics reports the monthly civilian labor force participation rate for April 2013 is stagnant at an abysmal 63.5 percent, close to the record low and 2.7 percent worse than Bush's average of 66.2 percent.

(//%3C/s%3E%3CURL%20url=%22http://beforeitsnews.com/contributor/upload/24693/images/obama-fail4-300x300.jpg%22%3E%3CLINK_TEXT%20text=%22http://beforeitsnews.com/contributor/up%20...%2000x300.jpg%22%3Ehttp://beforeitsnews.com/contributor/upload/24693/images/obama-fail4-300x300.jpg%3C/LINK_TEXT%3E%3C/URL%3E%3Ce%3E)
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Anonymous on October 17, 2013, 07:23:40 PM
The labour participation rate is lower under Obama and the unemployment rate higher.



Most of the jobs under Obomber have been low quality too.
QuoteWhen the payroll report was released last month, the world finally noticed what we had been saying for nearly three years: that the US was slowly being converted to a part-time worker society. This slow conversion accelerated drastically in the last few months, and especially in June, when part time jobs exploded higher by 360K while full time jobs dropped by 240K. In July we are sad to report that America's conversation to a part-time worker society is not "tapering": according to the Household Survey, of the 266K jobs created (note this number differs from the establishment survey), only 35% of jobs, or 92K, were full time. The rest were... not.
[/quote]

(//%3C/s%3E%3CURL%20url=%22http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2013/08/July%20Full%20Part%20time_0.jpg%22%3E%3CLINK_TEXT%20text=%22http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/%20...%20time_0.jpg%22%3Ehttp://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2013/08/July%20Full%20Part%20time_0.jpg%3C/LINK_TEXT%3E%3C/URL%3E%3Ce%3E)

What is worse, however, is when one looks at job creation broken down by "quality" in all of 2013. The chart below does the bottom line some justice:

(//%3C/s%3E%3CURL%20url=%22http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2013/08/Full%20Part%20time_0.jpg%22%3E%3CLINK_TEXT%20text=%22http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/%20...%20time_0.jpg%22%3Ehttp://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2013/08/Full%20Part%20time_0.jpg%3C/LINK_TEXT%3E%3C/URL%3E%3Ce%3E)

But what really shows what is going on in America at least in 2013, is the following summary: of the 953K jobs "created" so far in 2013, only 23%, or 222K, were full-time. Part-time jobs? 731K of the 953K total.

(//%3C/s%3E%3CURL%20url=%22http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2013/08/2103%20Full%20Part%20time_0.jpg%22%3E%3CLINK_TEXT%20text=%22http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/%20...%20time_0.jpg%22%3Ehttp://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2013/08/2103%20Full%20Part%20time_0.jpg%3C/LINK_TEXT%3E%3C/URL%3E%3Ce%3E)



When it comes to economy, debt and jobs Odumbo is the WORST prez in US history.
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Renee on October 18, 2013, 01:24:13 PM
Quote from: "Shen Li"
Quote from: "Renee"["It soared over the first three years of Obama's first term to 16.7 percent by September 2011 (the worst jobless rate for black Americans since 1983). Unemployment among black teenagers exploded to 39.3 percent in July, 2012"



http://townhall.com/columnists/donaldlambro/2013/03/29/black-leaders-open-fire-on-obama-over-unemployment-n1552206/page/full



BTW, most of the jobs created under Obama have been those minimum wage jobs that you have been crying about, oh and the others are part time jobs. Not only that the claim that under Obama more jobs have been created than under Bush is only a half-truth according to Politifact.com. It's a statement based on one metric of job creation and ignores the others that are less favorable. It's all leftwing word games designed to fool their low-info voter base.



http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/jul/26/barack-obama/barack-obama-says-businesses-have-created-nearly-t/

Bush's average black unemployment rate was 9.7 percent and an overall national average of 5.2 percent. Obama's lowest rate was 12.7 percent. When Bush was reelected unemployment was 5.4% while Odumbo was something like 8%.



The Bureau of Labor Statistics reports the monthly civilian labor force participation rate for April 2013 is stagnant at an abysmal 63.5 percent, close to the record low and 2.7 percent worse than Bush's average of 66.2 percent.

(//%3C/s%3E%3CURL%20url=%22http://beforeitsnews.com/contributor/upload/24693/images/obama-fail4-300x300.jpg%22%3E%3CLINK_TEXT%20text=%22http://beforeitsnews.com/contributor/up%20...%2000x300.jpg%22%3Ehttp://beforeitsnews.com/contributor/upload/24693/images/obama-fail4-300x300.jpg%3C/LINK_TEXT%3E%3C/URL%3E%3Ce%3E)


What Romero doesn't get or doesn't want to get is that even in a good economy black unemployment is on average 10% or higher in most states. So given the economic times we are in now an unemployment rate of over 16% is not surprising. In fact the number could very well be a conservative estimate and the actual number is probably a lot higher.
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Anonymous on October 18, 2013, 01:35:51 PM
^^I have read that if the US calculated it's unemployment rate the same way we do the actual overall unemployment rate would indeed be double digits.
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Renee on October 18, 2013, 01:53:02 PM
Quote from: "Shen Li"^^I have read that if the US calculated it's unemployment rate the same way we do the actual overall unemployment rate would indeed be double digits.


Probably, because we cook our numbers for propaganda purposes so that people like Romero can point and say "look the economy is improving and the Obama admin has created ALL these jobs".



We don't count the individuals who have fallen off the unemployment rolls due to the fact that they have run out of benefits. No one really knows or wants to face how big that number could actually be.
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Anonymous on October 18, 2013, 01:54:25 PM
Quote from: "Renee"
Quote from: "Shen Li"^^I have read that if the US calculated it's unemployment rate the same way we do the actual overall unemployment rate would indeed be double digits.


Probably, because we cook our numbers for propaganda purposes so that people like Romero can point and say "look the economy is improving and the Obama admin has created ALL these jobs".



We don't count the individuals who have fallen off the unemployment rolls due to the fact that they have run out of benefits. No one really knows or wants to face how big that number could actually be.

In all fairness both parties in the USA get creative with figures.
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Renee on October 18, 2013, 02:06:10 PM
Quote from: "Shen Li"
Quote from: "Renee"
Quote from: "Shen Li"^^I have read that if the US calculated it's unemployment rate the same way we do the actual overall unemployment rate would indeed be double digits.


Probably, because we cook our numbers for propaganda purposes so that people like Romero can point and say "look the economy is improving and the Obama admin has created ALL these jobs".



We don't count the individuals who have fallen off the unemployment rolls due to the fact that they have run out of benefits. No one really knows or wants to face how big that number could actually be.

In all fairness both parties in the USA get creative with figures.


Of course they do because it benefits the perticular party that is in power. It's just that the left seems to be the more artful of the two when it comes to spin. They learned it from the master of spin, Bill Clinton.
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Romero on October 18, 2013, 02:20:42 PM
Quote from: "Renee"What Romero doesn't get or doesn't want to get is that even in a good economy black unemployment is on average 10% or higher in most states.

When did I ever say it wasn't? I know it's 10% or higher in most states. You're just assuming I don't get it or don't want to know.



It's not the 16-20% you claimed earlier.


Quote from: "Renee"Probably, because we cook our numbers for propaganda purposes so that people like Romero can point and say "look the economy is improving and the Obama admin has created ALL these jobs".

I only said Obama has created more jobs than Bush, which is true.



The economy has improved since the recession, but nowhere nearly enough as it should.
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Renee on October 18, 2013, 02:26:33 PM
Quote from: "Romero"
Quote from: "Renee"What Romero doesn't get or doesn't want to get is that even in a good economy black unemployment is on average 10% or higher in most states.

When did I ever say it wasn't? I know it's 10% or higher in most states. You're just assuming I don't get it or don't want to know.



It's not the 16-20% you claimed earlier.


Delusional, denial, trolling noted.



Your shtick is getting old, Ro. Time for some new material  :lol:
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Romero on October 18, 2013, 02:38:45 PM
Quote from: "Renee"
Quote from: "Romero"
Quote from: "Renee"What Romero doesn't get or doesn't want to get is that even in a good economy black unemployment is on average 10% or higher in most states.

When did I ever say it wasn't? I know it's 10% or higher in most states. You're just assuming I don't get it or don't want to know.



It's not the 16-20% you claimed earlier.


Delusional, denial, trolling noted.



Your shtick is getting old, Ro. Time for some new material  :lol:

The current unemployment rate for blacks is 13%. Look it up.
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Anonymous on October 18, 2013, 02:48:04 PM
Quote from: "Romero"
Quote from: "Renee"
Quote from: "Romero"
When did I ever say it wasn't? I know it's 10% or higher in most states. You're just assuming I don't get it or don't want to know.



It's not the 16-20% you claimed earlier.


Delusional, denial, trolling noted.



Your shtick is getting old, Ro. Time for some new material  :lol:

The current unemployment rate for blacks is 13%. Look it up.

Which is more than 1/3 higher than what it averaged under the current dictator-in-chief's predecessor.
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Odinson on October 18, 2013, 02:56:12 PM
Thank the nigger whom has passed laws that rival laws in nazi-Germany.



That nigger has not fulfilled any of his election promises... He is passing laws of which have last seen in stalins reign.



"We are not surveilling e-mails... Or spying private matters..." Yea... "we just monitor wrong words".
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Renee on October 18, 2013, 03:13:30 PM
Quote from: "Romero"
Quote from: "Renee"
Quote from: "Romero"
When did I ever say it wasn't? I know it's 10% or higher in most states. You're just assuming I don't get it or don't want to know.



It's not the 16-20% you claimed earlier.


Delusional, denial, trolling noted.



Your shtick is getting old, Ro. Time for some new material  :lol:

The current unemployment rate for blacks is 13%. Look it up.


Cooked number lie, silly. Did they forget to teach you that in the liberal indoctrination correspondence course you took?



Here is a hint dumbass. I'll explain it to you one time. Unemployment figures only show the number of active unemployment applications on file. They don't count the ones that have reached termination nor do they count the welfare or other government assistance statistics that the chronically unemployed live on long term. If you were able to add those statistics together the number would probably make you shit twice and die.



Well at least it would hopefully make you shut your mouth and stop acting like a fool.
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Anonymous on October 18, 2013, 03:24:31 PM
^^OK, gotcha Renee. The numbers I were looking at were closer to the ones Romero was quoting. However, as we already know the way the USA actually calculates unemployment is skewed to begin with.
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Romero on October 18, 2013, 03:35:16 PM
Quote from: "Renee"Cooked number lie, silly. Did they forget to teach you that in the liberal indoctrination correspondence course you took?

"Cooked number lie"?  :lol:  It's from the US Department of Labor. It's 13%.



Google "black unemployment rate". It's 13%.



How about those ridiculous numbers you got from some anti-immigrant web site claiming over 40% of people receiving food stamps, unemployment checks and welfare are undocumented immigrants? They aren't even eligible to receive those benefits. They're not allowed to get them.



What you would like to personally believe aren't facts. The unemployment rate for blacks is currently 13%



//http://www.google.com
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Anonymous on October 18, 2013, 03:37:22 PM
Quote from: "Romero"
Quote from: "Renee"Cooked number lie, silly. Did they forget to teach you that in the liberal indoctrination correspondence course you took?

Cooked number lie?  :lol:  It's from the US Department of Labor. It's 13%.



Google "black unemployment rate". It's 13%.

I don't think she is arguing that is what the Dept of Labour claims. I think Renee is disputing how they arrive at that figure.
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Renee on October 18, 2013, 03:42:46 PM
Quote from: "Shen Li"
Quote from: "Romero"
Quote from: "Renee"


Delusional, denial, trolling noted.



Your shtick is getting old, Ro. Time for some new material  :lol:

The current unemployment rate for blacks is 13%. Look it up.

Which is more than 1/3 higher than what it averaged under the current dictator-in-chief's predecessor.


And since Obama id African American and since the black voted for him in unprecedented numbers in both elections you would think he would give their plight a priority?



Progressives have no intention of helping the poverty stricken because as I explained a while back, they would start to lose control over their voter base. The liberals have been beating their chests about how they are the poor man's best friend since FDR and as we have seen the poor stay poor and the libs keep spewing the same old tired platitudes. Their idea about fixing social issues is just to throw more and more taxpayer dollars into the rat hole while never making any real attempt at addressing the root cause of poverty.
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Romero on October 18, 2013, 03:44:34 PM
Quote from: "Shen Li"I don't think she is arguing that is what the Dept of Labour claims. I think Renee is disputing how they arrive at that figure.

Yes, she disputes everything I prove her wrong with. But facts are facts and reality is reality nonetheless. It's easy to be proven wrong and simply say "I meant it in another way".
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Renee on October 18, 2013, 03:45:50 PM
Quote from: "Shen Li"
Quote from: "Romero"
Quote from: "Renee"Cooked number lie, silly. Did they forget to teach you that in the liberal indoctrination correspondence course you took?

Cooked number lie?  :lol:  It's from the US Department of Labor. It's 13%.



Google "black unemployment rate". It's 13%.

I don't think she is arguing that is what the Dept of Labour claims. I think Renee is disputing how they arrive at that figure.


BINGO!



Thanks for exposing Romero's lack of understanding how the political world works. Like a good little useful idiot he simply swallows whatever the liberal political machine feeds him like a baby bird swallows worms.
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Renee on October 18, 2013, 03:48:59 PM
Quote from: "Romero"
Quote from: "Shen Li"I don't think she is arguing that is what the Dept of Labour claims. I think Renee is disputing how they arrive at that figure.

Yes, she disputes everything I prove her wrong with. But facts are facts and reality is reality nonetheless. It's easy to be proven wrong and simply say "I meant it in another way".


You can't prove economic reality wrong with fictitious numbers. Everyone with a brain knows the US Dept. of Labor cooks their numbers for political effect. Try again.
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Romero on October 18, 2013, 04:03:12 PM
Quote from: "Renee"You can't prove economic reality wrong with fictitious numbers. Everyone with a brain knows the US Dept. of Labor cooks their numbers for political effect. Try again.

That's a silly conspiracy theory. It's the US Department of Labor. It has measured and supplied the unemployment rate for like a hundred years.



How come every business, financial institution and media outlet trusts the Department of Labor's unemployment rate? Only conspiracy theorists think it's some conspiracy.



This is what it has come down to for you, eh? I'm right, but you can't handle it so you turn to friggin' conspiracy theories.
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Anonymous on October 18, 2013, 04:11:33 PM
^^Actually, Renee is onto something.
QuoteBut the "official" unemployment rate doesn't count men and women like G. — discouraged workers who have settled for part-time jobs or have given up looking altogether. Tracking those individuals, under what's called the "U-6″ rate, gives a very different measure of the nation's unemployment rate: 14.3%.



And unlike other jobs figures, the U-6 rate actually got worse in June — it went up by 0.5 percentage points.



There's a strong argument that given the Great Recession's damage to the economy, and because millions of Americans like G. have simply given up their job search, the U-6 rate is a more accurate reflection of national employment. Like the "official" rate, the U-6 essentially doubled between 2007 and 2009; unlike the official rate, it's not coming down as fast.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/dandiamond/2013/07/05/why-the-real-unemployment-rate-is-higher-than-you-think/

(//%3C/s%3E%3CURL%20url=%22http://b-i.forbesimg.com/dandiamond/files/2013/07/Screen-Shot-2013-07-05-at-5.34.54-PM.png%22%3E%3CLINK_TEXT%20text=%22http://b-i.forbesimg.com/dandiamond/fil%20...%20.54-PM.png%22%3Ehttp://b-i.forbesimg.com/dandiamond/files/2013/07/Screen-Shot-2013-07-05-at-5.34.54-PM.png%3C/LINK_TEXT%3E%3C/URL%3E%3Ce%3E)
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Renee on October 18, 2013, 04:12:53 PM
Quote from: "Romero"
Quote from: "Renee"You can't prove economic reality wrong with fictitious numbers. Everyone with a brain knows the US Dept. of Labor cooks their numbers for political effect. Try again.

That's a silly conspiracy theory. It's the US Department of Labor. It has measured and supplied the unemployment rate for like a hundred years.



How come every business, financial institution and media outlet trusts the Department of Labor's unemployment rate? Only conspiracy theorists think it's some conspiracy.



This is what it has come down to for you, eh? I'm right, but you can't handle it so you turn to friggin' conspiracy theories.


Yeah, you're right :lol:



Go eat some more government worms.
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Romero on October 18, 2013, 04:17:15 PM
QuoteBut the "official" unemployment rate doesn't count men and women like G. — discouraged workers who have settled for part-time jobs or have given up looking altogether.

We're talking about the official unemployment rate. And settling for a part-time job is still being employed.
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Anonymous on October 18, 2013, 04:19:13 PM
Quote from: "Romero"
QuoteBut the "official" unemployment rate doesn't count men and women like G. — discouraged workers who have settled for part-time jobs or have given up looking altogether.

We're talking about the official unemployment rate. And settling for a part-time job is still being employed.

What about those that have given up looking?
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Romero on October 18, 2013, 04:28:17 PM
We can look at hundreds of factors and come up with hundreds of unofficial rates.



I only said the official unemployment rate for blacks in the US is 13%. I'm right and Renee is wrong. There's no need to make this all complicated.
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Anonymous on October 18, 2013, 04:37:08 PM
Quote from: "Romero"We can look at hundreds of factors and come up with hundreds of unofficial rates.



I only said the official unemployment rate for blacks in the US is 13%. I'm right and Renee is wrong. There's no need to make this all complicated.

No, no, Renee disputes how they arrive at those numbers and I can see her point.



The US makes a distinction between job search activities that involve "active" measures (activities that on their own could lead to a job offer), as opposed to "passive" measures (activities that require some additional effort to obtain an actual job offer).



In the United States only active measures will lead to someone being designated as "unemployed"; in Canada either type of activity will do the trick.



The crux of the matter is that flipping through the want-ads in a newspaper gets you classified as unemployed in Canada, but not in the United States.



The Canadian unemployment rate would be lower if only those actively looking for a job were used to calculate the unemployment rate. This subtle difference in statistical method implies that the unemployment rate gap between the two countries is much bigger than it seems when looked through the lens of the official statistics.
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Renee on October 18, 2013, 04:54:22 PM
Quote from: "Romero"We can look at hundreds of factors and come up with hundreds of unofficial rates.



I only said the official unemployment rate for blacks in the US is 13%. I'm right and Renee is wrong. There's no need to make this all complicated.


"Since the U-7 rate is more than double the official unemployment rate, the broader measure of African-American un- and underemployment would be more than 28 percent."



http://www.pbs.org/newshour/businessdesk/2013/05/how-high-is-african-american-u.html



Take that government worm eater. Only idiots and fools and government fed baby birds like you believe the "offical" numbers.



Oh and BTW, I never claimed that my numbers were "official"; I only claimed my numbers were closer to reality. You know "reality" that thing you know very little about.



So what's more important, the cooked numbers the government provides or the actual stark reality of the unemployment issue among blacks?
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Anonymous on October 18, 2013, 05:12:09 PM
Quote from: "Renee"
Quote from: "Romero"We can look at hundreds of factors and come up with hundreds of unofficial rates.



I only said the official unemployment rate for blacks in the US is 13%. I'm right and Renee is wrong. There's no need to make this all complicated.


"Since the U-7 rate is more than double the official unemployment rate, the broader measure of African-American un- and underemployment would be more than 28 percent."



http://www.pbs.org/newshour/businessdesk/2013/05/how-high-is-african-american-u.html



Take that government worm eater. Only idiots and fools and government fed baby birds like you believe the "offical" numbers.



Oh and BTW, I never claimed that my numbers were "official"; I only claimed my numbers were closer to reality. You know "reality" that thing you know very little about.



So what's more important, the cooked numbers the government provides or the actual stark reality of the unemployment issue among blacks?

The latter of course Renee. I have to say that Canadian governments at all levels get creative with numbers, but they are not even close to manipulating them the way American politicos do. You cannot believe a fucking word an elected US politician tells you.
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Renee on October 18, 2013, 05:24:07 PM
Quote from: "Shen Li"
Quote from: "Renee"
Quote from: "Romero"We can look at hundreds of factors and come up with hundreds of unofficial rates.



I only said the official unemployment rate for blacks in the US is 13%. I'm right and Renee is wrong. There's no need to make this all complicated.


"Since the U-7 rate is more than double the official unemployment rate, the broader measure of African-American un- and underemployment would be more than 28 percent."



http://www.pbs.org/newshour/businessdesk/2013/05/how-high-is-african-american-u.html



Take that government worm eater. Only idiots and fools and government fed baby birds like you believe the "offical" numbers.



Oh and BTW, I never claimed that my numbers were "official"; I only claimed my numbers were closer to reality. You know "reality" that thing you know very little about.



So what's more important, the cooked numbers the government provides or the actual stark reality of the unemployment issue among blacks?

The latter of course Renee. I have to say that Canadian governments at all levels get creative with numbers, but they are not even close to manipulating them the way American politicos do. You cannot believe a fucking word an elected US politician tells you.


Sadly that is true because the first thing that goes thru most American politicians minds before they open their mouths is, "will what I'm about to say affect my chances of reelection". For the most part US politics is no longer about doing the business of the people; it's about job security, taking special interest money and how much I can suck from the government trough before someone notices that I'm a fucking thief.
Title: Re: Obama And Dems Are As Responsible For Government Shutdow
Post by: Anonymous on October 18, 2013, 05:34:45 PM
Quote from: "Renee"
Quote from: "Shen Li"
Quote from: "Renee"


"Since the U-7 rate is more than double the official unemployment rate, the broader measure of African-American un- and underemployment would be more than 28 percent."



http://www.pbs.org/newshour/businessdesk/2013/05/how-high-is-african-american-u.html



Take that government worm eater. Only idiots and fools and government fed baby birds like you believe the "offical" numbers.



Oh and BTW, I never claimed that my numbers were "official"; I only claimed my numbers were closer to reality. You know "reality" that thing you know very little about.



So what's more important, the cooked numbers the government provides or the actual stark reality of the unemployment issue among blacks?

The latter of course Renee. I have to say that Canadian governments at all levels get creative with numbers, but they are not even close to manipulating them the way American politicos do. You cannot believe a fucking word an elected US politician tells you.


Sadly that is true because the first thing that goes thru most American politicians minds before they open their mouths is, "will what I'm about to say affect my chances of reelection". For the most part US politics is no longer about doing the business of the people; it's about job security, taking special interest money and how much I can suck from the government trough before someone notices that I'm a fucking thief.

Yep, sad but true. US politics is about raising huge amounts of money too. This forces all politicians from both parties to pander to the deepest pockets in order to get elected.
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