Title: Sweden staying open amid the coronavirus pandemic
Post by: Thiel on April 05, 2020, 07:45:48 PM
Post by: Thiel on April 05, 2020, 07:45:48 PM
While other European countries are under strict lockdowns, Swedes can still go to school, drink at pubs, and mingle in parks and streets. The country's chief epidemiologist says the unusual measures are rooted in national values of voluntarism and trust
The Scandinavian country is pursuing what Prime Minister Stefan Lofven calls a "common sense" response to the pandemic by keeping the country largely functioning and aiming health measures at the most vulnerable.
"We who are adults need to be exactly that – adults. Not spread panic or rumours," Mr. Lofven said in a televised address to the country last week. "No one is alone in this crisis, but each person has a heavy responsibility."
The approach has put Sweden at odds with many countries across Europe, including its neighbours – Denmark, Norway and Finland – where almost all public venues have been shut and people have been ordered to stay indoors. In Sweden, most bars, restaurants and schools remain open, and people continue to mingle in parks and on city streets.
The government has introduced social-distancing guidelines and encouraged people to work from home. Gatherings of more than 50 people have also been banned, and some businesses, notably cinemas and ski resorts, have voluntarily closed. But few of the measures are mandatory, and almost no one expects Sweden to adopt the kind of fines and police checks that have become commonplace in Britain, France, Spain and Italy.
"In Sweden we are following the tradition that we have in Sweden and working very much with voluntary measures, very much with informing the public about the right things to do. That has worked reasonably well so far," Anders Tegnell, Sweden's chief epidemiologist and main architect of the policy, said in an interview from Stockholm.
Dr. Tegnell said most people are travelling less, working from home and adhering to social-distancing measures.
"We know that [with] these kinds of voluntary measures that we put in place in Sweden, we can basically go on with them for months and years if necessary." And even though the economy has slowed, "it has the potential to start moving as usual very, very quickly once these things are over."
Title: Re: Sweden staying open amid the coronavirus pandemic
Post by: Anonymous on April 05, 2020, 07:56:46 PM
Post by: Anonymous on April 05, 2020, 07:56:46 PM
Title: Re: Sweden staying open amid the coronavirus pandemic
Post by: caskur on April 05, 2020, 08:14:35 PM
Post by: caskur on April 05, 2020, 08:14:35 PM
That is a lot more sensible than what the rest of the Western world is doing. East Asian countries have shut down their economies forcing a depression. We should isolate vulnerable groups like seniors. Those types of measures are sustainable. Shutting down our economies is not.Quote from: "Shen Li"
While seniors die, so do your average younger person but they also get so sick, they clog hospitals putting front liners in the virus path. Would you like being in the path of the virus day in, day out watching people suffer and die? Even the ones who do survive will have permanent lung conditions.
The economy is nothing NOTHING compared to not containing this virus.
Swedes are dopey hapless tools if they haven't adopted the rest of the worlds strict rules... They are just going to make the rest of us stay in lockdown LONGER.
Title: Re: Sweden staying open amid the coronavirus pandemic
Post by: caskur on April 05, 2020, 08:18:12 PM
Post by: caskur on April 05, 2020, 08:18:12 PM
Title: Re: Sweden staying open amid the coronavirus pandemic
Post by: Anonymous on April 05, 2020, 08:19:37 PM
Post by: Anonymous on April 05, 2020, 08:19:37 PM
That is a lot more sensible than what the rest of the Western world is doing. East Asian countries have shut down their economies forcing a depression. We should isolate vulnerable groups like seniors. Those types of measures are sustainable. Shutting down our economies is not.Quote from: "Shen Li"
While seniors die, so do your average younger person but they also get so sick, they clog hospitals putting front liners in the virus path. Would you like being in the path of the virus day in, day out watching people suffer and die? Even the ones who do survive will have permanent lung conditions.
The economy is nothing NOTHING compared to not containing this virus.
Swedes are dopey hapless tools if they haven't adopted the rest of the worlds strict rules... They are just going to make the rest of us stay in lockdown LONGER.
Staying away from hospitals would be part of the isolation measures..
Shen is right, total isolation instead of targeted isolation isn't sustainable.
Title: Re: Sweden staying open amid the coronavirus pandemic
Post by: Thiel on April 05, 2020, 08:28:13 PM
Post by: Thiel on April 05, 2020, 08:28:13 PM
That is a lot more sensible than what the rest of the Western world is doing. East Asian countries have shut down their economies forcing a depression. We should isolate vulnerable groups like seniors. Those types of measures are sustainable. Shutting down our economies is not.Quote from: "Shen Li"
While seniors die, so do your average younger person but they also get so sick, they clog hospitals putting front liners in the virus path. Would you like being in the path of the virus day in, day out watching people suffer and die? Even the ones who do survive will have permanent lung conditions.
The economy is nothing NOTHING compared to not containing this virus.
Swedes are dopey hapless tools if they haven't adopted the rest of the worlds strict rules... They are just going to make the rest of us stay in lockdown LONGER.
Staying away from hospitals would be part of the isolation measures..
Shen is right, total isolation instead of targeted isolation isn't sustainable.
Lockdowns are supposed to be about five weeks or so. No economy can sustain being shut down for three or more months. The health system would collapse from lack of funding and production.
Title: Re: Sweden staying open amid the coronavirus pandemic
Post by: Anonymous on April 05, 2020, 08:38:52 PM
Post by: Anonymous on April 05, 2020, 08:38:52 PM
Title: Re: Sweden staying open amid the coronavirus pandemic
Post by: Anonymous on April 05, 2020, 09:39:37 PM
Post by: Anonymous on April 05, 2020, 09:39:37 PM
I just checked Sweden's COVID-19 stats. They have about 6800 cases of the coronavirus.Quote from: "Thiel"
While other European countries are under strict lockdowns, Swedes can still go to school, drink at pubs, and mingle in parks and streets. The country's chief epidemiologist says the unusual measures are rooted in national values of voluntarism and trust
The Scandinavian country is pursuing what Prime Minister Stefan Lofven calls a "common sense" response to the pandemic by keeping the country largely functioning and aiming health measures at the most vulnerable.
"We who are adults need to be exactly that – adults. Not spread panic or rumours," Mr. Lofven said in a televised address to the country last week. "No one is alone in this crisis, but each person has a heavy responsibility."
The approach has put Sweden at odds with many countries across Europe, including its neighbours – Denmark, Norway and Finland – where almost all public venues have been shut and people have been ordered to stay indoors. In Sweden, most bars, restaurants and schools remain open, and people continue to mingle in parks and on city streets.
The government has introduced social-distancing guidelines and encouraged people to work from home. Gatherings of more than 50 people have also been banned, and some businesses, notably cinemas and ski resorts, have voluntarily closed. But few of the measures are mandatory, and almost no one expects Sweden to adopt the kind of fines and police checks that have become commonplace in Britain, France, Spain and Italy.
"In Sweden we are following the tradition that we have in Sweden and working very much with voluntary measures, very much with informing the public about the right things to do. That has worked reasonably well so far," Anders Tegnell, Sweden's chief epidemiologist and main architect of the policy, said in an interview from Stockholm.
Dr. Tegnell said most people are travelling less, working from home and adhering to social-distancing measures.
"We know that [with] these kinds of voluntary measures that we put in place in Sweden, we can basically go on with them for months and years if necessary." And even though the economy has slowed, "it has the potential to start moving as usual very, very quickly once these things are over."https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-why-is-sweden-staying-open-amid-the-coronavirus-pandemic/
I just saw something about the Swedish approach on the news. Sweden's death rate is nearly three times higher on a per capita basis than neighbouring Norway that is under a lockdown.
Title: Re: Sweden staying open amid the coronavirus pandemic
Post by: cc on April 05, 2020, 09:48:37 PM
Post by: cc on April 05, 2020, 09:48:37 PM
We'll see how that works out
Every single Western country has bungled this from the get go. Of course their public health officials have given them bad information.Quote from: "Shen Li"
what should the West be doing? Don't just put down ... Suggest solutions ... what are the secrets?
Title: Re: Sweden staying open amid the coronavirus pandemic
Post by: Anonymous on April 05, 2020, 09:56:42 PM
Post by: Anonymous on April 05, 2020, 09:56:42 PM
Saw that coming ^^ ... posted on it several days ago on main board when their leaders proclaimed their choice to in effect ignore itQuote from: "cc"
We'll see how that works out
I don't see the Swedish voluntarism approach lasting much longer.
Title: Re: Sweden staying open amid the coronavirus pandemic
Post by: Oak on April 05, 2020, 09:58:39 PM
Post by: Oak on April 05, 2020, 09:58:39 PM
That is a lot more sensible than what the rest of the Western world is doing. East Asian countries have shut down their economies forcing a depression. We should isolate vulnerable groups like seniors. Those types of measures are sustainable. Shutting down our economies is not.Quote from: "Shen Li"
While seniors die, so do your average younger person but they also get so sick, they clog hospitals putting front liners in the virus path. Would you like being in the path of the virus day in, day out watching people suffer and die? Even the ones who do survive will have permanent lung conditions.
The economy is nothing NOTHING compared to not containing this virus.
Swedes are dopey hapless tools if they haven't adopted the rest of the worlds strict rules... They are just going to make the rest of us stay in lockdown LONGER.
Staying away from hospitals would be part of the isolation measures..
Shen is right, total isolation instead of targeted isolation isn't sustainable.
Had we all shut down at the end of February all at once in the US. we'd be done by now.
Title: Re: Sweden staying open amid the coronavirus pandemic
Post by: Anonymous on April 05, 2020, 10:29:08 PM
Post by: Anonymous on April 05, 2020, 10:29:08 PM
Every single Western country has bungled this from the get go. Of course their public health officials have given them bad information.Quote from: "Shen Li"
what should the West be doing? Don't just put down ... Suggest solutions ... what are the secrets?Quote
Watch what Western countries have done and don't do it. They did do some things right, but they did them too late. We allowed flights from Iran until the second week of March.
Here's what the Iron Chink would do if I was empress.
-Targeted lockdowns of vulnerable populations.
-Stores, schools, churches, and factories would be allowed to remain open, but temperature checks would be required and people who have a fever would be reported to a quarantine. Have a provincial call in number for those who have a fever. No exceptions.
-A digital tracking system for those who are infected and those in quarantine. It has been super successful in wealthy East Asian countries. Fuck privacy concerns.
-Require the use of masks in public.
-Fast track approval of treatments for symptoms and get those treatments out to hospitals, paharmacies, and walk -in clinics.
The premier of this province can't even say when his lockdown will end. This is a terrible approach with no end in sight.
Title: Re: Sweden staying open amid the coronavirus pandemic
Post by: cc on April 05, 2020, 10:48:54 PM
Post by: cc on April 05, 2020, 10:48:54 PM
Saw that coming ^^ ... posted on it several days ago on main board when their leaders proclaimed their choice to in effect ignore itQuote from: "cc"
We'll see how that works out
I don't see the Swedish voluntarism approach lasting much longer.
Canada is doubling every 3 days ... at the bad end of the list
US - 4 days
Title: Re: Sweden staying open amid the coronavirus pandemic
Post by: Anonymous on April 05, 2020, 11:06:21 PM
Post by: Anonymous on April 05, 2020, 11:06:21 PM
Every single Western country has bungled this from the get go. Of course their public health officials have given them bad information.Quote from: "Shen Li"what should the West be doing? Don't just put down ... Suggest solutions ... what are the secrets?Quote
Watch what Western countries have done and don't do it. They did do some things right, but they did them too late. We allowed flights from Iran until the second week of March.
Here's what the Iron Chink would do if I was empress.
-Targeted lockdowns of vulnerable populations.
-Stores, schools, churches, and factories would be allowed to remain open, but temperature checks would be required and people who have a fever would be reported to a quarantine. Have a provincial call in number for those who have a fever. No exceptions.
-A digital tracking system for those who are infected and those in quarantine. It has been super successful in wealthy East Asian countries. Fuck privacy concerns.
-Require the use of masks in public.
-Fast track approval of treatments for symptoms and get those treatments out to hospitals, paharmacies, and walk -in clinics.The premier of this province can't even say when his lockdown will end.This is a terrible approach with no end in sight.
Jason Kenney has hinted that this could last into June or beyond.
Title: Re: Sweden staying open amid the coronavirus pandemic
Post by: Anonymous on April 05, 2020, 11:32:10 PM
Post by: Anonymous on April 05, 2020, 11:32:10 PM
Every single Western country has bungled this from the get go. Of course their public health officials have given them bad information.Quote from: "Shen Li"what should the West be doing? Don't just put down ... Suggest solutions ... what are the secrets?Quote
Watch what Western countries have done and don't do it. They did do some things right, but they did them too late. We allowed flights from Iran until the second week of March.
Here's what the Iron Chink would do if I was empress.
-Targeted lockdowns of vulnerable populations.
-Stores, schools, churches, and factories would be allowed to remain open, but temperature checks would be required and people who have a fever would be reported to a quarantine. Have a provincial call in number for those who have a fever. No exceptions.
-A digital tracking system for those who are infected and those in quarantine. It has been super successful in wealthy East Asian countries. Fuck privacy concerns.
-Require the use of masks in public.
-Fast track approval of treatments for symptoms and get those treatments out to hospitals, paharmacies, and walk -in clinics.
The premier of this province can't even say when his lockdown will end. This is a terrible approach with no end in sight.
The one in bold is critical. Western countries have not utilized technology as much as they should and they are paying the price for it.
Title: Re: Sweden staying open amid the coronavirus pandemic
Post by: Anonymous on April 06, 2020, 12:26:13 AM
Post by: Anonymous on April 06, 2020, 12:26:13 AM
Every single Western country has bungled this from the get go. Of course their public health officials have given them bad information.Quote from: "Shen Li"what should the West be doing? Don't just put down ... Suggest solutions ... what are the secrets?Quote
Watch what Western countries have done and don't do it. They did do some things right, but they did them too late. We allowed flights from Iran until the second week of March.
Here's what the Iron Chink would do if I was empress.
-Targeted lockdowns of vulnerable populations.
-Stores, schools, churches, and factories would be allowed to remain open, but temperature checks would be required and people who have a fever would be reported to a quarantine. Have a provincial call in number for those who have a fever. No exceptions.
-A digital tracking system for those who are infected and those in quarantine. It has been super successful in wealthy East Asian countries. Fuck privacy concerns.
-Require the use of masks in public.
-Fast track approval of treatments for symptoms and get those treatments out to hospitals, paharmacies, and walk -in clinics.
The premier of this province can't even say when his lockdown will end. This is a terrible approach with no end in sight.
The one in bold is critical. Western countries have not utilized technology as much as they should and they are paying the price for it.
East Asian countries have pursued a high tech response and has proven superior to the low tech lockdown solution that Western countries have pursued.
Title: Re: Sweden staying open amid the coronavirus pandemic
Post by: Anonymous on April 06, 2020, 12:41:12 AM
Post by: Anonymous on April 06, 2020, 12:41:12 AM
What do you think that locking everyone in their homes is going to do for the chances of that happening here?
Title: Re: Sweden staying open amid the coronavirus pandemic
Post by: Anonymous on April 06, 2020, 12:52:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on April 06, 2020, 12:52:00 AM
Anyone remember the Ebola crisis of a few years back? How an asymptomatic strain of the virus took hold and effectively innoculated people against the more virulent strain?Quote from: "Guest"
What do you think that locking everyone in their homes is going to do for the chances of that happening here?
I didn't know that about the Ebola virus.
Title: Re: Sweden staying open amid the coronavirus pandemic
Post by: Anonymous on April 06, 2020, 12:54:12 AM
Post by: Anonymous on April 06, 2020, 12:54:12 AM
Anyone remember the Ebola crisis of a few years back? How an asymptomatic strain of the virus took hold and effectively innoculated people against the more virulent strain?Quote from: "Guest"
What do you think that locking everyone in their homes is going to do for the chances of that happening here?
Interesting.
Title: Re: Sweden staying open amid the coronavirus pandemic
Post by: Anonymous on April 06, 2020, 01:00:55 AM
Post by: Anonymous on April 06, 2020, 01:00:55 AM
And it stands to reason when you think about it. Any organism's evolution is going to follow natural selection. This applies to viruses. A virus which is limited in transmission by its hosts dropping dead before they've had a chance to pass the infection on to a new host is not going to survive as readily as a milder form which allows the host to transfer it to a wider pool. A completely asymptomatic variety from a viral perspective is the best outcome for both host and virus... until of course the virus finds itself getting fought off by the immune systems of hosts which have already been exposed to it, at which point it either evolves or dies out completely.
Title: Re: Sweden staying open amid the coronavirus pandemic
Post by: Anonymous on April 06, 2020, 01:04:41 AM
Post by: Anonymous on April 06, 2020, 01:04:41 AM
Title: Re: Sweden staying open amid the coronavirus pandemic
Post by: Anonymous on April 06, 2020, 01:39:22 AM
Post by: Anonymous on April 06, 2020, 01:39:22 AM
I mean, I moved more recently to small town, with the plan on running my gravel truck. No connections, nothing. Normally this would start to be the busy time of year for construction related, but I'm not so sure now with what I see happening now.
My backup plan was to just take whatever easy shit job I had to, should I not be able to run my truck. That backup plan has now sort of evaporated also, due to virus.
If one is like me, with no marketable skills or specialized training, the world can be a scary place. I don't function well in a classroom setting, since ADHD and whatever other acronyms I probably suffer from prevents me from obtaining any meaningful forms of higher learning...
The good old days were much easier for people like me, where decent jobs didn't even require a high school diploma...
Now those few decent government jobs with benefits remaining all go to women and minorities anyhow... White Male Privilege I guess!
Title: Re: Sweden staying open amid the coronavirus pandemic
Post by: Anonymous on April 06, 2020, 07:57:01 AM
Post by: Anonymous on April 06, 2020, 07:57:01 AM
*Nods*Quote from: "Guest"
And it stands to reason when you think about it. Any organism's evolution is going to follow natural selection. This applies to viruses. A virus which is limited in transmission by its hosts dropping dead before they've had a chance to pass the infection on to a new host is not going to survive as readily as a milder form which allows the host to transfer it to a wider pool. A completely asymptomatic variety from a viral perspective is the best outcome for both host and virus... until of course the virus finds itself getting fought off by the immune systems of hosts which have already been exposed to it, at which point it either evolves or dies out completely.
I hope we get a vaccine using the antibodies of people's who have immunity to it.
Title: Re: Sweden staying open amid the coronavirus pandemic
Post by: caskur on April 06, 2020, 08:28:32 AM
Post by: caskur on April 06, 2020, 08:28:32 AM
That is a lot more sensible than what the rest of the Western world is doing. East Asian countries have shut down their economies forcing a depression. We should isolate vulnerable groups like seniors. Those types of measures are sustainable. Shutting down our economies is not.Quote from: "Shen Li"
While seniors die, so do your average younger person but they also get so sick, they clog hospitals putting front liners in the virus path. Would you like being in the path of the virus day in, day out watching people suffer and die? Even the ones who do survive will have permanent lung conditions.
The economy is nothing NOTHING compared to not containing this virus.
Swedes are dopey hapless tools if they haven't adopted the rest of the worlds strict rules... They are just going to make the rest of us stay in lockdown LONGER.
Staying away from hospitals would be part of the isolation measures..
Shen is right, total isolation instead of targeted isolation isn't sustainable.
We're doing it but that is because we had a surplus and can afford to.
so far we have only 4 deaths in my state and a WA person died somewhere else and is being included in an Eastern States count.
One person in my state in quarantine was escaping quarantine to visit his girlfriend was caught and is now in jail. We are jailing people who break the rules.
Title: Re: Sweden staying open amid the coronavirus pandemic
Post by: caskur on April 06, 2020, 08:40:44 AM
Post by: caskur on April 06, 2020, 08:40:44 AM
That is a lot more sensible than what the rest of the Western world is doing. East Asian countries have shut down their economies forcing a depression. We should isolate vulnerable groups like seniors. Those types of measures are sustainable. Shutting down our economies is not.Quote from: "Shen Li"
While seniors die, so do your average younger person but they also get so sick, they clog hospitals putting front liners in the virus path. Would you like being in the path of the virus day in, day out watching people suffer and die? Even the ones who do survive will have permanent lung conditions.
The economy is nothing NOTHING compared to not containing this virus.
Swedes are dopey hapless tools if they haven't adopted the rest of the worlds strict rules... They are just going to make the rest of us stay in lockdown LONGER.
Staying away from hospitals would be part of the isolation measures..
Shen is right, total isolation instead of targeted isolation isn't sustainable.
And Singapore is having a second wave so is quickly acting upon it.
Singapore, Praised For Its Initial Coronavirus Response, Closes Schools And Offices To Prevent Second Wave Of Infections.
Title: Re: Sweden staying open amid the coronavirus pandemic
Post by: caskur on April 06, 2020, 08:44:25 AM
Post by: caskur on April 06, 2020, 08:44:25 AM
Title: Re: Sweden staying open amid the coronavirus pandemic
Post by: caskur on April 06, 2020, 08:54:58 AM
Post by: caskur on April 06, 2020, 08:54:58 AM
Every single Western country has bungled this from the get go. Of course their public health officials have given them bad information.Quote from: "Shen Li"what should the West be doing? Don't just put down ... Suggest solutions ... what are the secrets?Quote
Watch what Western countries have done and don't do it. They did do some things right, but they did them too late. We allowed flights from Iran until the second week of March.
Here's what the Iron Chink would do if I was empress.
-Targeted lockdowns of vulnerable populations.
-Stores, schools, churches, and factories would be allowed to remain open, but temperature checks would be required and people who have a fever would be reported to a quarantine. Have a provincial call in number for those who have a fever. No exceptions.
-A digital tracking system for those who are infected and those in quarantine. It has been super successful in wealthy East Asian countries. Fuck privacy concerns.
-Require the use of masks in public.
-Fast track approval of treatments for symptoms and get those treatments out to hospitals, paharmacies, and walk -in clinics.
The premier of this province can't even say when his lockdown will end. This is a terrible approach with no end in sight.
It depends where we all live and what the state of people's economy is but this is going to go for as long as they do not have a vaccine.
Your plan would work in small population but not the huge ones like the USA...
And mainland China has lied about the number of deaths and infected. The virus hasn't stopped in east Asian countries and it is still bubbling away.
Title: Re: Sweden staying open amid the coronavirus pandemic
Post by: Anonymous on April 06, 2020, 08:19:07 PM
Post by: Anonymous on April 06, 2020, 08:19:07 PM
*Nods*Quote from: "Guest"
And it stands to reason when you think about it. Any organism's evolution is going to follow natural selection. This applies to viruses. A virus which is limited in transmission by its hosts dropping dead before they've had a chance to pass the infection on to a new host is not going to survive as readily as a milder form which allows the host to transfer it to a wider pool. A completely asymptomatic variety from a viral perspective is the best outcome for both host and virus... until of course the virus finds itself getting fought off by the immune systems of hosts which have already been exposed to it, at which point it either evolves or dies out completely.
I hope we get a vaccine using the antibodies of people's who have immunity to it.
Either way it is a better outcome than what we are facing. Mel's graphic at the top of this page is somewhat disingenuous, a pie in the sky pretense that the actions currently being undertaken will have that result and the only real truths it holds is that this pandemic will have a beginning, a middle and an end, along with the pandemic being lengthened by practicing isolationism.
What it doesn't show (and what we are slowly learning now) is that the flattening of the curve could drag this thing out for way longer than initial assurances told us it would. And while I personally recognise the sense in attempting to save lives by not overburdening the healthcare system, the truth is with the totals spiraling upwards in spite of increasing demands our freedom of movement be circumscribed with more and more authoritarian manner (not being allowed to sunbathe outdoors no matter how far you are from the people around you is a good example), it seems to me that this "flattening of the curve" is more likely to result in an even higher body count that if we had just let the bug rip through our population unmolested instead. The two week shutdown is set to last for two months last I heard, some rumour it will be more like two years. Are we really expected to live like frightened rats in our holes?
I don't know about you, but I think I much rather preferred it when I could freely associate with others. And in retrospect, I think it would have been preferable to take the 1 in 50 chance of that option ending with my being carted off in a bodybag before a vaccine, cure or asymptomatic variant of the disease presented itself. This isn't life or liberty, it's an excuse to keep us under thumb while our masters divvy up the spoils. Pray tell, where did that shipment of N-95 masks get to? More importantly, what will the absence of those masks do to Mel's healthcare system capacity line? Will we be expected to contend with even more ridiculous "flattening the curve" measures or will our leaders just say "fuck it, you're on your own" at some point and keep us locked in our homes when the pandemic starts closing our clinics and grocers... and worse?
I know one thing, if some jihadi-inspired madman managed an airburst over Europe or North America at this point, we'd be fucked.
Title: Re: Sweden staying open amid the coronavirus pandemic
Post by: cc on April 06, 2020, 08:30:14 PM
Post by: cc on April 06, 2020, 08:30:14 PM
Title: Re: Sweden staying open amid the coronavirus pandemic
Post by: Anonymous on April 06, 2020, 08:37:19 PM
Post by: Anonymous on April 06, 2020, 08:37:19 PM
Epidemiologists in several Western countries said the spread was contained as late as the last week in February..
The CDC, WHO and United Stated Surgeon General Dr Jerome Adams told us a little more than a week ago that masks could cause more harm than good, and now we know it's not true.
Title: Re: Sweden staying open amid the coronavirus pandemic
Post by: Anonymous on April 06, 2020, 08:51:23 PM
Post by: Anonymous on April 06, 2020, 08:51:23 PM
The French solution seems to be an option worth exploring. Amputate their heads and they might stop wasting our air with their garbage.
Title: Re: Sweden staying open amid the coronavirus pandemic
Post by: Anonymous on April 06, 2020, 08:52:58 PM
Post by: Anonymous on April 06, 2020, 08:52:58 PM
Title: Re: Sweden staying open amid the coronavirus pandemic
Post by: Anonymous on April 06, 2020, 08:55:07 PM
Post by: Anonymous on April 06, 2020, 08:55:07 PM
Yeah, and to think we're letting them tell us what's good for us in all other things.Quote from: "Guest"
The French solution seems to be an option worth exploring. Amputate their heads and they might stop wasting our air with their garbage.
I was in Taiwan at the end of January and the first two weeks of February..
Masks were required in public..
Until a week ago The CDC, WHO and the Surgeon General were advising not to wear them.
Title: Re: Sweden staying open amid the coronavirus pandemic
Post by: Oak on April 06, 2020, 09:05:31 PM
Post by: Oak on April 06, 2020, 09:05:31 PM
The medical community has been consistently wrong about this..Quote from: "Fashionista"
Epidemiologists in several Western countries said the spread was contained as late as the last week in February..
The CDC, WHO and United Stated Surgeon General Dr Jerome Adams told us a little more than a week ago that masks could cause more harm than good, and now we know it's not true.
I don't believe East Asia has done that great of a job. China has a second wave of infections going on.
Please cite the Western epidemiologists that said this was resolved in February. I don't recall seeing this anywhere, well except from Trump here in the US.
The reasons that there is lack of clarity on masks is because you have to factor in human behavior. Most infections are caused by the virus you bring in on your hands by touching parts of your face. A mask can't change that.
And the virus can live up to 7 days on a reused mask. Good luck with that.
I think it's too early to start saying who is doing what better. One good suggestion though, end the proximity of humans and exotic/wild animals. There is no need for it. Most human diseases have been caused by human and animal proximity.
That would be an excellent start.
Title: Re: Sweden staying open amid the coronavirus pandemic
Post by: Anonymous on April 06, 2020, 09:15:29 PM
Post by: Anonymous on April 06, 2020, 09:15:29 PM
Yeah, and to think we're letting them tell us what's good for us in all other things.Quote from: "Guest"
The French solution seems to be an option worth exploring. Amputate their heads and they might stop wasting our air with their garbage.
I was in Taiwan at the end of January and the first two weeks of February..
Masks were required in public..
Until a week ago The CDC, WHO and the Surgeon General were advising not to wear them.
Wasn't that around the time that Chinese sponsored Ethiopian plaguemaster enshrined as head wallah of the WHO? I think it might have been. I'd be taking their recommendations with a grain of salt if I were you.
Masks might not stop you from contracting it, but they can sure limit the amount of viral laden droplets an infectee can project out into the atmosphere with each cough. I've been wearing mine as a matter of course since mid march when reports of the first cases started surfacing locally. Hell, I might already have the virus, I might not, but with a window of two weeks before symptoms become apparent, I figure I'm at least limiting transmission of possible airborne pathogens I might have to others.
Title: Re: Sweden staying open amid the coronavirus pandemic
Post by: Anonymous on April 06, 2020, 09:16:56 PM
Post by: Anonymous on April 06, 2020, 09:16:56 PM
The medical community has been consistently wrong about this..Quote from: "Fashionista"
Epidemiologists in several Western countries said the spread was contained as late as the last week in February..
The CDC, WHO and United Stated Surgeon General Dr Jerome Adams told us a little more than a week ago that masks could cause more harm than good, and now we know it's not true.
I don't believe East Asia has done that great of a job. China has a second wave of infections going on.
Please cite the Western epidemiologists that said this was resolved in February. I don't recall seeing this anywhere, well except from Trump here in the US.
The reasons that there is lack of clarity on masks is because you have to factor in human behavior. Most infections are caused by the virus you bring in on your hands by touching parts of your face. A mask can't change that.
And the virus can live up to 7 days on a reused mask. Good luck with that.
I think it's too early to start saying who is doing what better. One good suggestion though, end the proximity of humans and exotic/wild animals. There is no need for it. Most human diseases have been caused by human and animal proximity.
That would be an excellent start.
I meant the wealthy democracies like Taiwan, South Korea and Singapore, not China..
I don't believe anything from Chinese authorities..
Those three East Asian countries have kept their economies open and used technology and targeted isolations as have been used throughout history instead of mass lockdowns and unemployment like Western countries..
Chief public health officer Theresa Tam and her deputy Howard Njoo assured the public as late as Feb. 26, when Njoo testified at the Commons standing committee on health that: "We have contained the virus."
Title: Re: Sweden staying open amid the coronavirus pandemic
Post by: Oak on April 06, 2020, 09:23:30 PM
Post by: Oak on April 06, 2020, 09:23:30 PM
The medical community has been consistently wrong about this..Quote from: "Fashionista"
Epidemiologists in several Western countries said the spread was contained as late as the last week in February..
The CDC, WHO and United Stated Surgeon General Dr Jerome Adams told us a little more than a week ago that masks could cause more harm than good, and now we know it's not true.
I don't believe East Asia has done that great of a job. China has a second wave of infections going on.
Please cite the Western epidemiologists that said this was resolved in February. I don't recall seeing this anywhere, well except from Trump here in the US.
The reasons that there is lack of clarity on masks is because you have to factor in human behavior. Most infections are caused by the virus you bring in on your hands by touching parts of your face. A mask can't change that.
And the virus can live up to 7 days on a reused mask. Good luck with that.
I think it's too early to start saying who is doing what better. One good suggestion though, end the proximity of humans and exotic/wild animals. There is no need for it. Most human diseases have been caused by human and animal proximity.
That would be an excellent start.
I meant the wealthy democracies like Taiwan, South Korea and Singapore, not China..
I don't believe anything from Chinese authorities..
Those three East Asian countries have kept their economies open and used technology and targeted isolations as have been used throughout history instead of mass lockdowns and unemployment like Western countries..
Chief public health officer Theresa Tam and her deputy Howard Njoo assured the public as late as Feb. 26, when Njoo testified at the Commons standing committee on health that: "We have contained the virus."
Chief public health officer in England? That's only one Western democracy.
And, I don't know how those East Asian countries are going to do in the near future. I'd wait a little while until I crowed.
One thing they did was contact tracing...our public health infrastructure has been dismantled by government in favor of treatment versus prevention. Well, as long as we favor treatment and not prevention, we'll keep having more people to treat.
Title: Re: Sweden staying open amid the coronavirus pandemic
Post by: Anonymous on April 06, 2020, 09:25:21 PM
Post by: Anonymous on April 06, 2020, 09:25:21 PM
The medical community has been consistently wrong about this..Quote from: "Fashionista"
Epidemiologists in several Western countries said the spread was contained as late as the last week in February..
The CDC, WHO and United Stated Surgeon General Dr Jerome Adams told us a little more than a week ago that masks could cause more harm than good, and now we know it's not true.
I don't believe East Asia has done that great of a job. China has a second wave of infections going on.
Please cite the Western epidemiologists that said this was resolved in February. I don't recall seeing this anywhere, well except from Trump here in the US.
The reasons that there is lack of clarity on masks is because you have to factor in human behavior. Most infections are caused by the virus you bring in on your hands by touching parts of your face. A mask can't change that.
And the virus can live up to 7 days on a reused mask. Good luck with that.
I think it's too early to start saying who is doing what better. One good suggestion though, end the proximity of humans and exotic/wild animals. There is no need for it. Most human diseases have been caused by human and animal proximity.
That would be an excellent start.
I meant the wealthy democracies like Taiwan, South Korea and Singapore, not China..
I don't believe anything from Chinese authorities..
Those three East Asian countries have kept their economies open and used technology and targeted isolations as have been used throughout history instead of mass lockdowns and unemployment like Western countries..
Chief public health officer Theresa Tam and her deputy Howard Njoo assured the public as late as Feb. 26, when Njoo testified at the Commons standing committee on health that: "We have contained the virus."
Taiwan was the gold standard. I knew what Canadian public health officials told us about masks was bullshit.
Title: Re: Sweden staying open amid the coronavirus pandemic
Post by: Anonymous on April 07, 2020, 10:20:10 AM
Post by: Anonymous on April 07, 2020, 10:20:10 AM
On Thursday, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) announced that it recommends all Americans to wear face coverings in public to slow the spread of the coronavirus.
The Michael Garron Hospital Foundation in Toronto has started a campaign calling on people who can sew to help make 1,000 masks a week for discharged patients, visitors and vulnerable communities so that surgical masks can be reserved for health-care workers. Staff in some hospitals are putting handmade masks over their N95 respirators to help make them last longer.
Soon after Ms. Kaesler started sewing, Lee-Anne Moore-Thibert began organizing a sewing circle on Facebook in Durham Region, east of Toronto. Within one day, her group had 300 people. She renamed it Ontario Sews and split it into different regions across the province, but still it kept growing.
In normal times, Ms. Moore-Thibert is a managing partner of the paralegal firm Cochrane Moore LLP in Oshawa. This week, she expanded her sewing network, opening chapters in Alberta, Saskatchewan and Quebec. British Columbia is next. With the help of her administration team in Durham, the group, now called Canada Sews, organized teams, material allocation and drop-off locations in partnership with individual UPS stores to reduce face-to-face contact.
Because we got false information in Western countries from public health officials people could've been wearing masks from the beginning.
Title: Re: Sweden staying open amid the coronavirus pandemic
Post by: Anonymous on April 07, 2020, 08:14:17 PM
Post by: Anonymous on April 07, 2020, 08:14:17 PM
Both countries are preparing to open schools, stores, restaurants and coffee shops over the next five weeks.
Title: Re: Sweden staying open amid the coronavirus pandemic
Post by: Anonymous on April 07, 2020, 09:43:36 PM
Post by: Anonymous on April 07, 2020, 09:43:36 PM
Title: Re: Sweden staying open amid the coronavirus pandemic
Post by: Anonymous on April 08, 2020, 07:00:02 AM
Post by: Anonymous on April 08, 2020, 07:00:02 AM
It makes sense they would. The only "cure" for the pandemic that's been prescribed turned out to be worse than the pandemic itself. I find it a little ironic that we can hold China in the light we do, yet give our own leaders get a free pass for dropkicking the whole shitshow into the toilet and legislating the rest of us to jump in after it.Quote from: "Guest"
There will be more people dying due to unemployment than from coronavirus if governments in North America don't allow people to go back to work soon..
I'm unimpressed with the way North America and Europe have responded to this pandemic..
But, don't get me wrong, it's entirely China's fault.
Title: Re: Sweden staying open amid the coronavirus pandemic
Post by: Anonymous on April 08, 2020, 07:06:17 AM
Post by: Anonymous on April 08, 2020, 07:06:17 AM
The Food and Drug Administration has, with historic rapidity, approved an antibody test for home use. It will soon be mass produced, giving medical workers an entirely new set of data on the pandemic. Despite a perplexing degree of baseless pessimism in the media, antibody testing could finally provide the blueprint for getting Americans working again if we can safely confirm that immunity to the coronavirus works as expected.
Title: Re: Sweden staying open amid the coronavirus pandemic
Post by: Anonymous on April 08, 2020, 01:42:11 PM
Post by: Anonymous on April 08, 2020, 01:42:11 PM
It makes sense they would. The only "cure" for the pandemic that's been prescribed turned out to be worse than the pandemic itself. I find it a little ironic that we can hold China in the light we do, yet give our own leaders get a free pass for dropkicking the whole shitshow into the toilet and legislating the rest of us to jump in after it.Quote from: "Guest"
There will be more people dying due to unemployment than from coronavirus if governments in North America don't allow people to go back to work soon..
I'm unimpressed with the way North America and Europe have responded to this pandemic..
But, don't get me wrong, it's entirely China's fault.
Only if by "it" you mean the pathogen getting out into the world at large. China is no more responsible for the way the rest of the world reacted to it than Trump is responsible for China shipping it in the first place.
And here is how that might work.Quote from: "seoulbro"Antibody testing can help open the economy and get us working again
The Food and Drug Administration has, with historic rapidity, approved an antibody test for home use. It will soon be mass produced, giving medical workers an entirely new set of data on the pandemic. Despite a perplexing degree of baseless pessimism in the media, antibody testing could finally provide the blueprint for getting Americans working again if we can safely confirm that immunity to the coronavirus works as expected.https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/491423-antibody-testing-can-help-open-the-economy-and-get-us-working-again
That's the glass half full version. Murphy's Law is likely to give rise to other strains in the interim once we go the human guineapig route and I'm sure there will be no end of screaming from the usual suspects once Orangemanbad decides it's the way forward. It's what they do.
I just hope the practice is not made mandatory, but after seeing how effectively Big Pharma was mandated into sticking all and sundry with whatever chemical cocktail was the decreed flavour of the year I don't like our chances. So glad the only kids I have are the ones certain messageboard drones invented out of thin air for me, the rate we're going I can well imagine Frank Herbert's depiction of House Harkonnen to be humanity's ultimate fate.
Title: Re: Sweden staying open amid the coronavirus pandemic
Post by: Anonymous on April 08, 2020, 01:50:25 PM
Post by: Anonymous on April 08, 2020, 01:50:25 PM
Title: Re: Sweden staying open amid the coronavirus pandemic
Post by: Anonymous on April 10, 2020, 09:44:35 PM
Post by: Anonymous on April 10, 2020, 09:44:35 PM
Title: Re: Sweden staying open amid the coronavirus pandemic
Post by: Anonymous on April 10, 2020, 10:21:53 PM
Post by: Anonymous on April 10, 2020, 10:21:53 PM
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What's it called when you restrict the movement of only certain demographics?