Title: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: Anonymous on April 23, 2020, 12:33:07 AM
Post by: Anonymous on April 23, 2020, 12:33:07 AM
The strategy — aimed at allowing some exposure to the virus in order to build immunity among the general population while protecting high-risk groups like the elderly — has been controversial. Some health experts liken it to playing Russian roulette with public health.
But now, the country's chief epidemiologist said the strategy appears to be working and that "herd immunity" could be reached in the capital Stockholm in a matter of weeks.
"In major parts of Sweden, around Stockholm, we have reached a plateau (in new cases) and we're already seeing the effect of herd immunity and in a few weeks' time we'll see even more of the effects of that. And in the rest of the country, the situation is stable," Dr. Anders Tegnell, chief epidemiologist at Sweden's Public Health Agency, told CNBC on Tuesday.
Herd immunity among a population, usually achieved through vaccination, is reached when around 60% of citizens are deemed immune.
Tegnell said sampling and modeling data indicated that 20% of Stockholm's population is already immune to the virus, and that "in a few weeks' time we might reach herd immunity and we believe that is why we're seeing a slow decline in cases, in spite of sampling (testing for the coronavirus) more and more."
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: Anonymous on April 23, 2020, 12:56:05 AM
Post by: Anonymous on April 23, 2020, 12:56:05 AM
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: cc on April 23, 2020, 01:48:21 AM
Post by: cc on April 23, 2020, 01:48:21 AM
A case rate of 1,585 / million population vs 1000 for us .. and it started there long after it started here
They already have a death rate / million population of almost 4 X ours ... 10.7 per cent mortality rate is highest of all counties ... dunno why?
Euthanasia for sure which is OK by ultra lib Swedish standards
Herd? .. I cringe at the term as it is merely a dream. One is not immune because of herd.
One is only immune if one has had it ... and that's still not proven to be a for sure
We'll see ... It's still a long way way for them to go .. they had a very late start
I keep track daily for Canada, my Province and US .. I'll see if I can track their record of the last month ..
At 1st look, seems it might be flattening off to same amount / day at moment
Swedes are the least independent of all in the West and do what govt says = more complying to rules like Taiwan and S Korea
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: Anonymous on April 23, 2020, 09:34:30 AM
Post by: Anonymous on April 23, 2020, 09:34:30 AM
Dunno. Been watching it closely.Quote from: "cc"
A case rate of 1,585 / million population vs 1000 for us .. and it started there long after it started here
They already have a death rate / million population of almost 4 X ours ... 10.7 per cent mortality rate is highest of all counties ... dunno why?
Euthanasia for sure which is OK by ultra lib Swedish standards
Herd? .. I cringe at the term as it is merely a dream. One is not immune because of herd.
One is only immune if one has had it ... and that's still not proven to be a for sure
We'll see ... It's still a long way way for them to go .. they had a very late start
I keep track daily for Canada, my Province and US .. I'll see if I can track their record of the last month ..
At 1st look, seems it might be flattening off to same amount / day at moment
Swedes are the least independent of all in the West and do what govt says = more complying to rules like Taiwan and S Korea
The deaths in Sweden are heavily skewed towards the elderly, who should have been in strict isolation.
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: Anonymous on April 23, 2020, 09:56:56 AM
Post by: Anonymous on April 23, 2020, 09:56:56 AM
It's hard to say how history will decide which approach was right. But, these economic lockdowns are a short term response only. If they continue for months, it will be worse than trying to reach herd immunity.Quote from: "Herman"
Sweden's death rate from COVID is higher than other countries, but since we don't know if their non death rate from the virus has spiked like most Western countries, we can't say if their approach is better or worse. We do know their economy will be in better shape than ours when we do lift restrictions. Still, herd immunity is a big gamble.
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: Anonymous on April 23, 2020, 12:05:14 PM
Post by: Anonymous on April 23, 2020, 12:05:14 PM
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: cc on April 23, 2020, 01:04:38 PM
Post by: cc on April 23, 2020, 01:04:38 PM
.The deaths in Sweden are heavily skewed towards the elderly, who should have been in strict isolationQuote from: "Fash"
Yes. Clearly they are deliberately using this opportunity to clear out retirement and care homes .. will soon be able to use many of them to bring in even more refugees .. while also saving their own pension pot ..
From the warped Swedish perspective (the land of euthanasia) , it's Win / Win .. It's Sweden eh?
As to will it work, daily graph is not falling at all, it is rising again .. yesterday well above average ... will see how today and future goes when the numbers are entered .. will keep an eye on Sweden to see how it goes
Problem for many areas (many countries) how quickly they update .. and how accurately
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: Anonymous on April 23, 2020, 05:34:48 PM
Post by: Anonymous on April 23, 2020, 05:34:48 PM
The deaths in Sweden are heavily skewed towards the elderly, who should have been in strict isolationQuote from: "Fash"
Yes. Clearly they are deliberately using this opportunity to clear out retirement and care homes .. will soon be able to use many of them to bring in even more refugees .. while also saving their own pension pot ..
From the warped Swedish perspective (the land of euthanasia) , it's Win / Win .. It's Sweden eh?
As to will it work, daily graph is not falling at all, it is rising again .. yesterday well above average ... will see how today and future goes when the numbers are entered .. will keep an eye on Sweden to see how it goeshttps://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/
Problem for many areas (many countries) how quickly they update .. and how accurately
They should've protected the elderly even though they resist economic lockdowns.
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: cc on April 23, 2020, 08:10:02 PM
Post by: cc on April 23, 2020, 08:10:02 PM
And I'm talking about every day of the year, every year, not just now
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: Anonymous on April 23, 2020, 08:55:19 PM
Post by: Anonymous on April 23, 2020, 08:55:19 PM
Any society that does not prioritize the protection of the young and the old is unworthy of being called a society.Quote from: "cc"
And I'm talking about every day of the year, every year, not just now
Absolutely..
If Sweden had done that their approach to battling coronavirus might be the best.....might be, time will tell.
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: cc on April 23, 2020, 09:08:24 PM
Post by: cc on April 23, 2020, 09:08:24 PM
I'll keep you posted as time (the only test) goes along. I'm prejudiced because I do know that Sweden is deliberately killing off the older generation for the benefit of the younger people. The terribly high death rate has no other explanation.
Worse, I have seen Sweden's past official policies on assisting elders to die .. often adding the argument that their generous pensions and benefits that no other country has will not survive if older people continue to live long lives.
It's not just that they are innovative. It's not a random coincidence that Sweden are the only ones to try this method ... and the astoundingly high death rate per Covid case pretty much proves they care nothing for their elders and are sacrificing them
Still, I'll keep the actual numbers over time
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: Anonymous on April 23, 2020, 09:27:33 PM
Post by: Anonymous on April 23, 2020, 09:27:33 PM
My city has over seventy per cent of corona virus cases in this province..
I can't stand watching what I consider the most family friendly major city in Canada locked down unable to earn a wage..
It's the same across the country of course..
The medicine might be too harsh.
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: cc on April 23, 2020, 09:33:24 PM
Post by: cc on April 23, 2020, 09:33:24 PM
And yes. it is hard to watch the destruction around us
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: Anonymous on April 23, 2020, 09:55:59 PM
Post by: Anonymous on April 23, 2020, 09:55:59 PM
They may have a long process to be declared recovered though.
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: cc on April 23, 2020, 10:24:34 PM
Post by: cc on April 23, 2020, 10:24:34 PM
OK. You are right on
Reported cases 16,755
Reported deaths 2,021
Reported Recovered 550
Strange ... some may be because Sweden got hit later in the game .. but still that's not the entire story
Most countries show low numbers for recovered except Germany who has done the best job of every country also with a very low death rate .. for many it may be they cannot keep track once one is tested and convalescing and
recovers so there is no official "that person is recovered" to list
Still, that number may be a clue that Sweden is not telling us everything .. dunno for sure
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: cc on April 23, 2020, 10:45:53 PM
Post by: cc on April 23, 2020, 10:45:53 PM
Did not report new deaths or total cases yet
Look at the gray bars under "Daily New Cases" ... last 3 days show a consistent and significant rise, so the idea it was slowing there was a false alarm
Cases keep going up for a few days then down for a few days .. but the overall trend is getting progressively higher and higher each time
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: Anonymous on April 23, 2020, 11:04:13 PM
Post by: Anonymous on April 23, 2020, 11:04:13 PM
Just noticed they reported for today .. highest new cases ever for them .. 751Quote from: "cc"
Did not report new deaths or total cases yet
Look at the gray bars under "Daily New Cases" ... last 3 days show a consistent and significant rise, so the idea it was slowing there was a false alarmhttps://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/
Cases keeps going up for a few days then down for a few days .. but the overall trend is getting progressively higher and higher each time
Even in Saskatchewan, where we have flattened the curve, we are adding new cases everyday. More are recovering than catching it.
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: cc on April 23, 2020, 11:10:27 PM
Post by: cc on April 23, 2020, 11:10:27 PM
Contrary to previous report, not so for Sweden
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: Anonymous on April 24, 2020, 12:24:08 AM
Post by: Anonymous on April 24, 2020, 12:24:08 AM
Part of that approach relies on having access to one of the world's best-functioning health-care systems. At no stage did Sweden see a real shortage of medical equipment or hospital capacity, and tents set up as emergency care facilities around the country have mostly remained empty.
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: cc on April 24, 2020, 01:24:45 AM
Post by: cc on April 24, 2020, 01:24:45 AM
relies on having access to one of the world's best-functioning health-care systemsQuote
Yet, a very high death rate per case
Something does not wash here
Their approach to the virus is not the only thing that is different about data on Sweden
So, what's really going on? Are they simply and deliberately allowing (in effect using) the virus to kill off all the old folks?
It sure as hell looks that way
Edit: I just checked and noticed Switzerland has almost as high a death rate .. Anyone know what's going on there also?
Checking further, UK has even higher rate and Belgium is astronomical
Spain and Italy are bad also .. but that would be expected the way they got overwhelmed
WTF is going on with these top o the heap Euro countries? The more I look, the worse it gets
What is needed is figuring the death rate per case (not given per se in the chart) .. and I'm too tired to do the math for exact ratios .. but it's easy to spot that most of the EU is doing horribly
Canada not so bad - but this virus is a very deadly killer .. much more so than we were lead to believe .. The closer I look, the less I like ... I'll do some math in the morning
Deaths per a specific # of cases tells us how deadly it is
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: Anonymous on April 24, 2020, 09:08:11 AM
Post by: Anonymous on April 24, 2020, 09:08:11 AM
And even then some countries that declare the cause of death COVID-19 because a person who has a heart attack has it is not accurate either.
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: cc on April 24, 2020, 04:57:30 PM
Post by: cc on April 24, 2020, 04:57:30 PM
I know reporting in not exact and can lag
The discrepancy in US was addressed and corrected and .. I have no reason to believe most other countries are miscalculating
Also, the virus has directly caused things like heart attacks etc in some people .. no one dies of "virus" per se ... thus, all die of "effects" on them of virus whether heart, lungs etc etc .. i.e. the virus killed them
Certainly most infected and died of specific things brought on by the virus in effect died from the virus
Going by "today" reported -- I did some calcs
CANADA 43,551 .. .. 1 in 867 people .............. 1 in 19 cases .......... 22,700
SWEDEN 17,567 .....1 in 580 people .............. 1 in 8 cases ...... ...... 14,800
US ....... 903,775 ..1 in 365 people ............. 1 in 17 cases ....... ... 777,000
GERMANY 154,000 ..1 in 538 people ............. 1 in 17 cases ...... ..... 123,000
UK........ 143,464 .. 1 in 464 people ............. 1 in 15 cases ...... ..... 80,600
BC ....... ....1,824 .. 1 in 2,780 people ......... 1 in 19.4 cases ........ .... 638
ALBERTA .....4,017 .. 1 in 1,100 people ......... 1 in 56 cases ...... ...... 2,548
My Conclusions from calcs:
1. Death rates everywhere are far higher that originally projected ... there had been talk of 1 / 100 .. even in decimals of 1 .. not happening
2. Sweden has very high death rate per case ... whereas others are relatively similar
3. Based on others, Canada is doing well with death rate and very well with contagion rate (despite being one of the 1st to get flights in from China and was early to get cases. Sweden was some later in, one of the last in fact
4. So far in Alberta, a high rate cases / person, but a very high rate of of survival and high active case rate
5. BC, Canada Average fatality rate, but a low active case rate
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: Anonymous on April 24, 2020, 08:24:39 PM
Post by: Anonymous on April 24, 2020, 08:24:39 PM
I don't trust American death totals from the coronavirus.
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: cc on April 24, 2020, 09:16:31 PM
Post by: cc on April 24, 2020, 09:16:31 PM
Fatalities in Canada & US now match other and match counties except Sweden
Anyhow, I'm just trying to get some perspective to better understand what is happening mainly here in Canada and especially western canada
Number of COVID-19 patients in B.C. hospitals dips below 100 for first time since March
Some pretty good news here
Graph looks really good in all regards .. mind you, that is with a lot of sheltering
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: Anonymous on April 24, 2020, 11:48:12 PM
Post by: Anonymous on April 24, 2020, 11:48:12 PM
OK. I'm well aware of that and been following it. I understand they have corrected the reporting - and the corrections are reflected in current figures. NY was the prime offenderQuote from: "cc"
Fatalities in Canada & US now match other and match counties except Sweden
Anyhow, I'm just trying to get some perspective to better understand what is happening mainly here in Canada and especially western canada
Number of COVID-19 patients in B.C. hospitals dips below 100 for first time since March
Some pretty good news herehttps://globalnews.ca/news/6866046/bc-coronavirus-update-april-24/?utm_source=NewsletterBc&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=2020
Graph looks really good in all regards .. mind you, that is with a lot of sheltering
So, just stay locked down forever collecting five hundred bucks a week and the curve stays flattened. If that was the case I would sell my farm and move abroad. But, who would buy my farm.
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: Berry Sweet on April 25, 2020, 12:50:48 AM
Post by: Berry Sweet on April 25, 2020, 12:50:48 AM
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: cc on April 25, 2020, 12:51:27 AM
Post by: cc on April 25, 2020, 12:51:27 AM
OK. I'm well aware of that and been following it. I understand they have corrected the reporting - and the corrections are reflected in current figures. NY was the prime offenderQuote from: "cc"
Fatalities in Canada & US now match other and match counties except Sweden
Anyhow, I'm just trying to get some perspective to better understand what is happening mainly here in Canada and especially western canada
Number of COVID-19 patients in B.C. hospitals dips below 100 for first time since March
Some pretty good news herehttps://globalnews.ca/news/6866046/bc-coronavirus-update-april-24/?utm_source=NewsletterBc&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=2020
Graph looks really good in all regards .. mind you, that is with a lot of sheltering
So, just stay locked down forever collecting five hundred bucks a week and the curve stays flattened. If that was the case I would sell my farm and move abroad. But, who would buy my farm.
I'm not advocating that. I am open to solid ideas that can work.
So far I have not heard any that will work. For sure we have to get things going, somehow
I've heard lots of theories and babble, but but so far I've seen no workable ideas
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: Berry Sweet on April 25, 2020, 12:56:37 AM
Post by: Berry Sweet on April 25, 2020, 12:56:37 AM
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: Anonymous on April 25, 2020, 01:04:36 AM
Post by: Anonymous on April 25, 2020, 01:04:36 AM
OK. I'm well aware of that and been following it. I understand they have corrected the reporting - and the corrections are reflected in current figures. NY was the prime offenderQuote from: "cc"
Fatalities in Canada & US now match other and match counties except Sweden
Anyhow, I'm just trying to get some perspective to better understand what is happening mainly here in Canada and especially western canada
Number of COVID-19 patients in B.C. hospitals dips below 100 for first time since March
Some pretty good news herehttps://globalnews.ca/news/6866046/bc-coronavirus-update-april-24/?utm_source=NewsletterBc&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=2020
Graph looks really good in all regards .. mind you, that is with a lot of sheltering
So, just stay locked down forever collecting five hundred bucks a week and the curve stays flattened. If that was the case I would sell my farm and move abroad. But, who would buy my farm.
I'm not advocating that. I am open to solid ideas that can work.
So far I have not heard any that will work. For sure we have to get things going, somehow
I've heard lots of theories and babble, but but so far I've seen no workable ideas
We had ideas that worked from Taiwan and South Korea, and Singapore too, but they didn't shut their border..
Temperature taking, masks worn in public, Taiwan's e-fence, and contact tracing..
The last two may violate privacy laws in North America, but if the choice is that or poverty I know what I would choose.
Things will eventually get going at snail pace.Quote
But, global deaths from famine will speed up at lightning pace.
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: Berry Sweet on April 25, 2020, 01:10:33 AM
Post by: Berry Sweet on April 25, 2020, 01:10:33 AM
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: cc on April 25, 2020, 03:02:39 AM
Post by: cc on April 25, 2020, 03:02:39 AM
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: Anonymous on April 25, 2020, 11:27:27 AM
Post by: Anonymous on April 25, 2020, 11:27:27 AM
(//%3C/s%3E%3CURL%20url=%22https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/17/Yin_yang.svg/220px-Yin_yang.svg.png%22%3E%3CLINK_TEXT%20text=%22https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/%20...%20ng.svg.png%22%3Ehttps://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/17/Yin_yang.svg/220px-Yin_yang.svg.png%3C/LINK_TEXT%3E%3C/URL%3E%3Ce%3E)
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: Anonymous on April 25, 2020, 01:45:08 PM
Post by: Anonymous on April 25, 2020, 01:45:08 PM
Premier François Legault pushed the concept of "herd immunity" on Thursday as he prepared to lay the groundwork next week for a plan to gradually restart the economy and get children back to schools.
The approach would involve exposing a large proportion of Quebecers to the novel coronavirus in a measured, gradual way, to help them develop a natural immunity.
The idea of reopening schools has garnered an unfavourable response among some parents, teachers and unions, who worry about kids returning to class just weeks after physical distancing and stay-at-home measures were enacted to slow the spread of COVID-19.
But Mr. Legault argued Thursday that less than 10 per cent of the province is currently naturally immune to COVID-19 – perhaps a bit more in hard-hit Montreal – and that number won't change unless the province starts resuming certain activities.
"The idea is to go very gradually so that people who are less at risk can develop antibodies to be able to become immune," Mr. Legault said.
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: cc on April 25, 2020, 02:43:37 PM
Post by: cc on April 25, 2020, 02:43:37 PM
in a measured, gradual way, to help them develop a natural immunity.Quote
I have no idea what "develop a natural immunity" means. Clearly it's theory
Not wishing to shoot it down, but I don't think there is any such thing .. outside of a wishful theory
I heard it mentioned re: Sweden, and wondered wtf they were talking about .. even something about "60 %"
I don't get it .. seems to me you either pick it up and get it 100% like everyone else .. or you don't pick it up and don't get it at all .. yet. This isn't some not too nasty germ that one can not get hurt and develop antibodies for with gradual exposure .. like people do in 3rd world countries .
While it sounds wonderful, I've heard of very little and no substantive science claims that it even exists
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: Odinson on April 25, 2020, 03:16:35 PM
Post by: Odinson on April 25, 2020, 03:16:35 PM
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: Anonymous on April 25, 2020, 03:30:01 PM
Post by: Anonymous on April 25, 2020, 03:30:01 PM
There is a good chance that there is no immunity and it just keeps on infecting people who have previously had it..Quote from: "Odinson"
There is a good chance COVID-19 science is wrong most of the time.
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: cc on April 25, 2020, 04:11:16 PM
Post by: cc on April 25, 2020, 04:11:16 PM
and surprises which is useful info (provided science is open to monitoring results and reacting accordingly instead of simply reacting based on instincts and sticking to what fails)
While I'm on that, an example - I'm coming to agree with some specialists that ventilators are killing more than they are saving ... again false initial assumptions that it does well for pneumonia .. and this seemed similar for some .. so "let's use them". I'm seeing new ideas on that based on "actual results" that their original idea was "dead" wrong for Covid and they are killing people .... and that moderate pressure oxygen from mask only and patient placed on side or belly saves many many more .. again, from examples not from theory or assumptions
In short, serious pneumonia patients have no or extremely weak lung power so they need it and it helps them, despite their being in the worse possible position for lungs to function .. Covid patient do have some lung power and vents reduce, even take over that .. and so extra oxygen + placement such that lungs are less externally compressed is showing FAR better outcomes.
They should have spotted this sooner, as more pneumonia patients survive on them that do Covid patients .. yet Covid patients do better on oxygen and correct placement which is often not enough for serious pneumonia cases
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: Anonymous on April 25, 2020, 04:27:06 PM
Post by: Anonymous on April 25, 2020, 04:27:06 PM
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: Anonymous on April 29, 2020, 04:47:16 PM
Post by: Anonymous on April 29, 2020, 04:47:16 PM
Sweden's death rate of 22 per 100,000 people is the same as that of Ireland, which has earned accolades for its handling of the pandemic, and far better than in Britain or France.
While other countries were slamming on the brakes, Sweden allowed restaurants and bars to keep serving, left preschools and grade schools in session and placed no limits on public transport or outings in local parks. Hairdressers, yoga studios, gyms and even some cinemas have remained open.
Gatherings of more than 50 people are banned. Museums have closed and sporting events have been canceled. At the end of March, the authorities banned visits to nursing homes.
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: cc on April 29, 2020, 05:54:30 PM
Post by: cc on April 29, 2020, 05:54:30 PM
We are 74 .. Sweden death rate is 1 in 8 cases .. ours is 1 in 19 cases (UK, US, Germany are almost tied with us) .. meaning Sweden is killing their elders at one of the highest rates in the world
I have believed from the gitgo that was the plan .. to save their failing retirement and cradle to grave ultra prog funds
Remember, Sweden is the land of euthanasia
Also, current new cases & new deaths per x # of people does not come even close to us and many others .. by a factor of about 4 .. that includes today
Don't let the totals fool ya folks, they have only 10 million people in all ..Our Province Ontario alone has almost 1 1/2 times as many as their entire country to put it in perspective
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: Anonymous on April 29, 2020, 07:15:06 PM
Post by: Anonymous on April 29, 2020, 07:15:06 PM
244 / Million?Quote from: "cc"
We are 74 .. Sweden death rate is 1 in 8 cases .. ours is 1 in 19 cases (UK, US, Germany are almost tied with us) .. meaning Sweden is killing their elders at one of the highest rates in the world
I have believed from the gitgo that was the plan .. to save their failing retirement and cradle to grave ultra prog funds
Remember, Sweden is the land of euthanasia
Also, current new cases and new deaths per x # of people does not come even close to us and many others .. by a factor of about 4 .. that includes today
Belgium has the highest death at 57 per 100,000 cases of the coronavirus.
Sweden's rate of incidence per 100,000 is lower than many European countries.
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: Anonymous on April 29, 2020, 07:57:21 PM
Post by: Anonymous on April 29, 2020, 07:57:21 PM
Quebec's premier is pushing the idea of herd immunity among less vulnerable demographics.Quote from: "Herman"https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-francois-legault-pushes-herd-immunity-ahead-of-quebecs-gradual/
Premier François Legault pushed the concept of "herd immunity" on Thursday as he prepared to lay the groundwork next week for a plan to gradually restart the economy and get children back to schools.
The approach would involve exposing a large proportion of Quebecers to the novel coronavirus in a measured, gradual way, to help them develop a natural immunity.
The idea of reopening schools has garnered an unfavourable response among some parents, teachers and unions, who worry about kids returning to class just weeks after physical distancing and stay-at-home measures were enacted to slow the spread of COVID-19.
But Mr. Legault argued Thursday that less than 10 per cent of the province is currently naturally immune to COVID-19 – perhaps a bit more in hard-hit Montreal – and that number won't change unless the province starts resuming certain activities.
"The idea is to go very gradually so that people who are less at risk can develop antibodies to be able to become immune," Mr. Legault said.
All Western countries have seen their non COVID deaths soar. That is because lockdowns are worse than the coronavirus itself. I'm willing to be non COVID deaths have not risen that much.
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: Anonymous on April 29, 2020, 10:47:48 PM
Post by: Anonymous on April 29, 2020, 10:47:48 PM
Quebec's premier is pushing the idea of herd immunity among less vulnerable demographics.Quote from: "Herman"https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-francois-legault-pushes-herd-immunity-ahead-of-quebecs-gradual/
Premier François Legault pushed the concept of "herd immunity" on Thursday as he prepared to lay the groundwork next week for a plan to gradually restart the economy and get children back to schools.
The approach would involve exposing a large proportion of Quebecers to the novel coronavirus in a measured, gradual way, to help them develop a natural immunity.
The idea of reopening schools has garnered an unfavourable response among some parents, teachers and unions, who worry about kids returning to class just weeks after physical distancing and stay-at-home measures were enacted to slow the spread of COVID-19.
But Mr. Legault argued Thursday that less than 10 per cent of the province is currently naturally immune to COVID-19 – perhaps a bit more in hard-hit Montreal – and that number won't change unless the province starts resuming certain activities.
"The idea is to go very gradually so that people who are less at risk can develop antibodies to be able to become immune," Mr. Legault said.
All Western countries have seen their non COVID deaths soar. That is because lockdowns are worse than the coronavirus itself. I'm willing to be non COVID deaths have not risen that much.
Time will tell if the Swedish response to the coronavirus was better or worse than their European neighbours.
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: caskur on April 30, 2020, 07:05:36 AM
Post by: caskur on April 30, 2020, 07:05:36 AM
All Western countries have seen their non COVID deaths soar. That is because lockdowns are worse than the coronavirus itself. I'm willing to be non COVID deaths have not risen that much.
Not Australia and New Zealand and we're "western countries"...
You need to check your stats.
Here is a link for you. It's a good one...
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: Anonymous on April 30, 2020, 11:08:31 AM
Post by: Anonymous on April 30, 2020, 11:08:31 AM
All Western countries have seen their non COVID deaths soar. That is because lockdowns are worse than the coronavirus itself. I'm willing to be non COVID deaths have not risen that much.
Not Australia and New Zealand and we're "western countries"...
You need to check your stats.
Here is a link for you. It's a good one...https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
Thats COVID related deaths.
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: caskur on April 30, 2020, 01:04:46 PM
Post by: caskur on April 30, 2020, 01:04:46 PM
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: Anonymous on April 30, 2020, 02:10:07 PM
Post by: Anonymous on April 30, 2020, 02:10:07 PM
Every type of death is lower in Australia atmQuote from: "caskur"
I think Shen Li's point is that lockdowns cause non COVID deaths to rise and we have seen data to corroborate that from the North America and Europe.
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: caskur on April 30, 2020, 02:25:54 PM
Post by: caskur on April 30, 2020, 02:25:54 PM
Every type of death is lower in Australia atmQuote from: "caskur"
I think Shen Li's point is that lockdowns cause non COVID deaths to rise and we have seen data to corroborate that from the North America and Europe.
Fake data...
sorry, not interested.
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: Anonymous on April 30, 2020, 02:47:24 PM
Post by: Anonymous on April 30, 2020, 02:47:24 PM
Every type of death is lower in Australia atmQuote from: "caskur"
I think Shen Li's point is that lockdowns cause non COVID deaths to rise and we have seen data to corroborate that from the North America and Europe.
Fake data...
sorry, not interested.
Economic depression is not good for people's health. Not to mention the fact that serious illnesses are not being operated on or treated.
It is a trade off. We slow the number of people using emergency rooms for COVID, but we increase death and illness for non COVID related causes.
the rise of non-Covid deaths
Why are non-COVID related deaths on the rise?
Alarm sounded over rise in non-coronavirus deaths in Scotland
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: cc on April 30, 2020, 02:48:47 PM
Post by: cc on April 30, 2020, 02:48:47 PM
I think Shen Li's point is that lockdowns cause non COVID deaths to rise and we have seen data to corroborate that from the North America and Europe.Quote
I have never seen data that even indicates that
I do see that lock-downs can play a role in some deaths by other means
Edit - OOPS, looks like Seoul covered it while I was typing
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: caskur on April 30, 2020, 04:38:11 PM
Post by: caskur on April 30, 2020, 04:38:11 PM
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: Gaon on April 30, 2020, 05:46:36 PM
Post by: Gaon on April 30, 2020, 05:46:36 PM
Every type of death is lower in Australia atmQuote from: "caskur"
I think Shen Li's point is that lockdowns cause non COVID deaths to rise and we have seen data to corroborate that from the North America and Europe.
Fake data...
sorry, not interested.
Economic depression is not good for people's health. Not to mention the fact that serious illnesses are not being operated on or treated.
It is a trade off. We slow the number of people using emergency rooms for COVID, but we increase death and illness for non COVID related causes.
the rise of non-Covid deathshttps://www.spectator.co.uk/article/non-covid-deaths-are-also-surging
Why are non-COVID related deaths on the rise?https://www.sciencefocus.com/news/why-are-non-covid-related-deaths-on-the-rise/
Alarm sounded over rise in non-coronavirus deaths in Scotlandhttps://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/08/alarm-sounded-over-rise-in-non-coronavirus-deaths-in-scotland
This is why total economic lockdowns is not a solution. It only makes a bad situation worse. And the pain it causes will linger for years.
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: caskur on April 30, 2020, 06:20:13 PM
Post by: caskur on April 30, 2020, 06:20:13 PM
And the pain will not go on for years. In some countries it will get back slower but it will go back to normal within 2 years....
Would you rather we have the Americans store bodies in unrefrigerated trucks like the news is reporting as I type?
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: Gaon on April 30, 2020, 06:58:58 PM
Post by: Gaon on April 30, 2020, 06:58:58 PM
Well crime is down 40% where I liveQuote from: "caskur"https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-08/coronavirus-shutdown-sees-crime-rate-drop-in-wa/12132410
And the pain will not go on for years. In some countries it will get back slower but it will go back to normal within 2 years....
Would you rather we have the Americans store bodies in unrefrigerated trucks like the news is reporting as I type?
Low crime rates are the only positive. But, domestic violence is rising as a result of lockdowns.
A New Covid-19 Crisis: Domestic Abuse Rises Worldwide
Movement restrictions aimed to stop the spread of the coronavirus making violence worse
Are all of those deaths due to coronavirus or are they result of all the deaths caused by the lockdowns. I will give you an example from British Columbia where I live. A colleague of mine's wife was scheduled for a hysterectomy, but the government here postponed it when they prioritized hospital care for the coronavirus. Hopefully, it is not spreading. People have died of heart attacks and strokes because they couldn't see their doctors when their symptoms were mild. Cancer spreads, caridiovascular disease symptoms go unchecked, joint replacement surgeries cancelled and suicides soar. Lockdowns cost lives.
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: cc on April 30, 2020, 07:21:30 PM
Post by: cc on April 30, 2020, 07:21:30 PM
Sweden today same as day before and day before - Varies between 2 - 3 X the new cases and new deaths / day as Canada per x # of population
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: Anonymous on April 30, 2020, 07:24:02 PM
Post by: Anonymous on April 30, 2020, 07:24:02 PM
Sweden today same as day before and day beforeQuote from: "cc"
Around 2 - 3 X the new cases and new deaths / day as Canada per x # of population
It's about the same as Ireland I believe.
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: cc on April 30, 2020, 07:26:25 PM
Post by: cc on April 30, 2020, 07:26:25 PM
Actually, Ireland has been a disaster # of cases, but ties Sweden for deaths / x# population
Remember .. it started in western Europe and the Sweden was about the last to start
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: Anonymous on April 30, 2020, 07:45:29 PM
Post by: Anonymous on April 30, 2020, 07:45:29 PM
True - and Ireland has slightly less that 1/2 the populationQuote from: "cc"
Actually, Ireland has been a disaster # of cases, but ties Sweden for deaths / x# population
Remember .. it started in western Europe and the Sweden was about the last to start
By the time we have a vaccine or at least a readily available treatment, Sweden will come out of this with less damage than most of it's European neighbours. As I said, time will tell how the Swedish approach compares to the rest of the Western world.
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: cc on April 30, 2020, 08:09:22 PM
Post by: cc on April 30, 2020, 08:09:22 PM
They sure are killing off their elderly successfully .. which I'm convinced is part of their equation
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: caskur on May 01, 2020, 07:10:41 AM
Post by: caskur on May 01, 2020, 07:10:41 AM
Well crime is down 40% where I liveQuote from: "caskur"https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-08/coronavirus-shutdown-sees-crime-rate-drop-in-wa/12132410
And the pain will not go on for years. In some countries it will get back slower but it will go back to normal within 2 years....
Would you rather we have the Americans store bodies in unrefrigerated trucks like the news is reporting as I type?
Low crime rates are the only positive. But, domestic violence is rising as a result of lockdowns.
A New Covid-19 Crisis: Domestic Abuse Rises Worldwide
Movement restrictions aimed to stop the spread of the coronavirus making violence worsehttps://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/06/world/coronavirus-domestic-violence.html
Are all of those deaths due to coronavirus or are they result of all the deaths caused by the lockdowns. I will give you an example from British Columbia where I live. A colleague of mine's wife was scheduled for a hysterectomy, but the government here postponed it when they prioritized hospital care for the coronavirus. Hopefully, it is not spreading. People have died of heart attacks and strokes because they couldn't see their doctors when their symptoms were mild. Cancer spreads, caridiovascular disease symptoms go unchecked, joint replacement surgeries cancelled and suicides soar. Lockdowns cost lives.
It appears you're really complaining about a badly run lockdown...
When you say "Hopefully, it is not spreading." well its sad to say it is spreading and at an alarming rate...
And no domestic violence excuse is going to outweigh the front liners plight who need 1000% support from us.
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: Anonymous on May 01, 2020, 10:29:57 AM
Post by: Anonymous on May 01, 2020, 10:29:57 AM
Well crime is down 40% where I liveQuote from: "caskur"https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-08/coronavirus-shutdown-sees-crime-rate-drop-in-wa/12132410
And the pain will not go on for years. In some countries it will get back slower but it will go back to normal within 2 years....
Would you rather we have the Americans store bodies in unrefrigerated trucks like the news is reporting as I type?
Low crime rates are the only positive. But, domestic violence is rising as a result of lockdowns.
A New Covid-19 Crisis: Domestic Abuse Rises Worldwide
Movement restrictions aimed to stop the spread of the coronavirus making violence worsehttps://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/06/world/coronavirus-domestic-violence.html
Are all of those deaths due to coronavirus or are they result of all the deaths caused by the lockdowns. I will give you an example from British Columbia where I live. A colleague of mine's wife was scheduled for a hysterectomy, but the government here postponed it when they prioritized hospital care for the coronavirus. Hopefully, it is not spreading. People have died of heart attacks and strokes because they couldn't see their doctors when their symptoms were mild. Cancer spreads, caridiovascular disease symptoms go unchecked, joint replacement surgeries cancelled and suicides soar. Lockdowns cost lives.
It appears you're really complaining about a badly run lockdown...
When you say "Hopefully, it is not spreading." well its sad to say it is spreading and at an alarming rate...
And no domestic violence excuse is going to outweigh the front liners plight who need 1000% support from us.
I think he means the cancer isn't spreading fast..
And yes, these lockdowns are causing people to die as their medical conditions deteriorate or worse while hospitals are prioritized for the coronavirus..
Taiwan didn't do that, life carried on, but with some safety measures and technology to control the spread..
The approach the West has taken of lockdowns is causing more death than it prevents.
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: Anonymous on May 01, 2020, 02:48:06 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 01, 2020, 02:48:06 PM
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: cc on May 01, 2020, 04:06:02 PM
Post by: cc on May 01, 2020, 04:06:02 PM
That would be the equivalent of well over 10,000 in Canada while Canada actually had 580
Sweden is now approaching 1/2 of Canada's total cases, and over 2/3 the deaths .. yet is just under 1/4th the size and got a much later start
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: Anonymous on May 01, 2020, 04:11:18 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 01, 2020, 04:11:18 PM
Big jump in cases for a very small population > in one day 3,400 new casesQuote from: "cc"
That would be the equivalent of well over 10,000 in Canada while Canada actually had 580
Sweden is now approaching 1/2 of Canada's total cases, yet is just under 1/4th the size and got a much later start
I just checked and they have 531 serious or critical cases..
That isn't enough to overwhelm their hospitals.
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: cc on May 01, 2020, 04:12:23 PM
Post by: cc on May 01, 2020, 04:12:23 PM
Like I said before, they are knowingly killing off their elders
All those numbers relative to us and they are just at the start, while we were one of the first to get started .. long ago now
If it should slow down very soon and very substantially, they may prove their case
If it does not, and continues for a while at even close to past and present rates, they are in a disaster .. and will hurt & kill a lot of people
.. with big numbers for a very small country
Canada is doing fairly well, despite Quebec .. We are right on 1/2 the US rate for cases and deaths .. and started about the same time .. thanks to Wuhan flights into Van, MO, TO etc
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: Anonymous on May 01, 2020, 06:14:56 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 01, 2020, 06:14:56 PM
We should've told all businesses at the start of this they have to implement social distancing measures, provide PPE for staff and sanitizer for customers. No idiotic lockdowns required where you can't to your office, but you can wait in line with dozens of others at Costco. Fuck, the West is run by idiots.
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: cc on May 01, 2020, 08:03:52 PM
Post by: cc on May 01, 2020, 08:03:52 PM
Message(s) heard and ignored accordingly
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: kiebers on May 02, 2020, 12:17:42 PM
Post by: kiebers on May 02, 2020, 12:17:42 PM
There are two videos on this page that are very interesting. The shorter one mentions Norway and Sweden.
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: Anonymous on May 02, 2020, 12:29:01 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 02, 2020, 12:29:01 PM
The youtube video that was taken down because "the video was pulled because the content contradicted the guidance of the local health authority."Quote from: "kiebers"
There are two videos on this page that are very interesting. The shorter one mentions Norway and Sweden.https://www.turnto23.com/news/coronavirus/watch-controversial-press-conference-held-by-two-bakersfield-doctors-that-was-pulled-down-by-youtube
Erickson suggests that staying at home too long could be even worse for people's health.Quote
I'm of that opinion myself now.
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: cc on May 02, 2020, 01:15:54 PM
Post by: cc on May 02, 2020, 01:15:54 PM
They had to give it up and reverse 180 a few weeks ago as things got bad[sic - Maybe not the citizen discipline? Just thinking out loud]
"What we are seeing are scenes from a horror movie."
Those words came from Artur Virgilio, the mayor of Manaus, about the coronavirus crisis developing in the middle of the Amazon rainforest in northern Brazil.
The city had a record number of burials in April -- about 100 a day, or triple the average -- forcing authorities to do many en masse in improvised cemeteries.
"We aren't in a state of emergency. We are in a state of utter disaster, like a country that is at war but has already lost," Virgilio said.
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: Anonymous on May 02, 2020, 01:34:09 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 02, 2020, 01:34:09 PM
Brazil was "the other" country that tried what Sweden tried.Quote from: "cc"
They had to give it up and reverse 180 a few weeks ago as things got bad[sic - Maybe not the citizen discipline? Just thinking out loud]Coronavirus in Brazil leads to mass graves, fears country could become worst-hit in world: 'We are in a state of utter disaster'(//https)
"What we are seeing are scenes from a horror movie."
Those words came from Artur Virgilio, the mayor of Manaus, about the coronavirus crisis developing in the middle of the Amazon rainforest in northern Brazil.
The city had a record number of burials in April -- about 100 a day, or triple the average -- forcing authorities to do many en masse in improvised cemeteries.
"We aren't in a state of emergency. We are in a state of utter disaster, like a country that is at war but has already lost," Virgilio said.
Would Brazilians follow the rules of a lockdown?
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: caskur on May 02, 2020, 01:40:09 PM
Post by: caskur on May 02, 2020, 01:40:09 PM
Brazil was "the other" country that tried what Sweden tried.Quote from: "cc"
They had to give it up and reverse 180 a few weeks ago as things got bad[sic - Maybe not the citizen discipline? Just thinking out loud]Coronavirus in Brazil leads to mass graves, fears country could become worst-hit in world: 'We are in a state of utter disaster'(//https)
"What we are seeing are scenes from a horror movie."
Those words came from Artur Virgilio, the mayor of Manaus, about the coronavirus crisis developing in the middle of the Amazon rainforest in northern Brazil.
The city had a record number of burials in April -- about 100 a day, or triple the average -- forcing authorities to do many en masse in improvised cemeteries.
"We aren't in a state of emergency. We are in a state of utter disaster, like a country that is at war but has already lost," Virgilio said.
We're doing good but then our society is mainly compliant.
I hope Rancid is OK over there in Brazil.
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: Anonymous on May 02, 2020, 01:48:56 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 02, 2020, 01:48:56 PM
Swedish Epidemiologist Johan Giesecke: Why Lockdowns Are The Wrong PolicyQuote
Professor Johan Giesecke, one of the world's most senior epidemiologists, advisor to the Swedish Government (he hired Anders Tegnell who is currently directing Swedish strategy), the first Chief Scientist of the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control, and an advisor to the director general of the WHO, lays out with typically Swedish bluntness why he thinks:
UK policy on lockdown and other European countries are not evidence-based.
The correct policy is to protect the old and the frail only.
This will eventually lead to herd immunity as a "by-product."
The initial UK response, before the "180 degree U-turn", was better.
The Imperial College paper was "not very good" and he has never seen an unpublished paper have so much policy impact.
The paper was very much too pessimistic.
Any such models are a dubious basis for public policy anyway.
The flattening of the curve is due to the most vulnerable dying first as much as the lockdown.
The results will eventually be similar for all countries.
Covid-19 is a "mild disease" and similar to the flu, and it was the novelty of the disease that scared people.
The actual fatality rate of Covid-19 is the region of 0.1%.
At least 50% of the population of both the UK and Sweden will be shown to have already had the disease when mass antibody testing becomes available.https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/04/18/swedish_epidemiologist_johan_giesecke_why_lockdowns_are_the_wrong_policy.html?utm_source=spotim&utm_medium=spotim_recirculation
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: cc on May 02, 2020, 01:57:08 PM
Post by: cc on May 02, 2020, 01:57:08 PM
What "region" ? - it it's EU, EU is a fucking disaster ... horrible death rate many times original predictions ... easily seen if one follows the daily records and rates per million people
Brazil was "the other" country that tried what Sweden tried.Quote from: "cc"
They had to give it up and reverse 180 a few weeks ago as things got bad[sic - Maybe not the citizen discipline? Just thinking out loud]Coronavirus in Brazil leads to mass graves, fears country could become worst-hit in world: 'We are in a state of utter disaster'(//https)
"What we are seeing are scenes from a horror movie."
Those words came from Artur Virgilio, the mayor of Manaus, about the coronavirus crisis developing in the middle of the Amazon rainforest in northern Brazil.
The city had a record number of burials in April -- about 100 a day, or triple the average -- forcing authorities to do many en masse in improvised cemeteries.
"We aren't in a state of emergency. We are in a state of utter disaster, like a country that is at war but has already lost," Virgilio said.
Would Brazilians follow the rules of a lockdown?
Yes. That's why I started it with a qualifier
In fact, I felt it would fail when they started it for that very reason (about the same time as Sweden started but without much press exposure .. i.e. propaganda)
I keep daily logs on World, Canada, US, BC, Sweden etc. (and Brazil till it became a disaster) etc.
Yesterday was a disaster in Sweden (their worse day yet) ... Shortly I will check it for the past 24 hours
Clearly I have too much time on my hands of late
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: Anonymous on May 02, 2020, 02:16:52 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 02, 2020, 02:16:52 PM
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: cc on May 02, 2020, 02:17:59 PM
Post by: cc on May 02, 2020, 02:17:59 PM
Checked for Sweden today - Well, that is a first. Today's Sweden alone table does not show the past month, and the
They can't fool me, as I have all the past daily results
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: Anonymous on May 02, 2020, 02:31:22 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 02, 2020, 02:31:22 PM
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: cc on May 02, 2020, 02:38:40 PM
Post by: cc on May 02, 2020, 02:38:40 PM
The hard left politicizes everything. Why would we expect them not to use this pandemic to further their agenda.Quote from: "seoulbro"
You bet - in EVERY way
Unfortunately it got me today. On those 2 Texas care home hydroxy success stories, I promised you I'd sort it out this morning
Well guess what? Overnight the net this morning is plastered with a gazzillion "Trump's medicine" and / or "Republican trickery
Headlines .. and yesterdays success stories done by legit local papers and TV stations are mainly gone or at best difficult to find
The doc was black and a known Republican ... a sin worse than child molestation
This is vile
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: Anonymous on May 02, 2020, 02:44:52 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 02, 2020, 02:44:52 PM
39 elderly Texans successfully complete hydroxychloroquine treatment for COVID-19, doctor says
Patients completed a five-day treatment and their doctor said none of the patients experienced side effects.
Fifty-six residents at this senior facility in Galveston County contracted the novel coronavirus. Dr. Robin Armstrong said 39 of them gave him permission to treat them with hydroxychloroquine pills.
"Most of the patients have done well. And, you know, and I think that that is suggestive that the medication is helpful," Armstrong told WFAA.
But notice that Armstrong qualified his answer by saying "most of the patients."
"Well, I would say I would say all the patients have done well," Armstrong added.
On Sunday, those 39 patients finished five days of treatment with hydroxychloroquine. Dr. Armstrong said no one experienced any side effects.
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: cc on May 02, 2020, 02:46:17 PM
Post by: cc on May 02, 2020, 02:46:17 PM
It was a total success with elders (never seen before .. not only all survived, but illness gone rapidly) - but is being dunned / even called fake all over the net today.
We have another problem, TDS, that is also destroying the West .. a double whammy of destruction
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: cc on May 02, 2020, 03:01:58 PM
Post by: cc on May 02, 2020, 03:01:58 PM
Not an official survey, just real people and real life - Screw you political hacks!!! If T hadn't pushed it, you'd be eating it up and using it everywhere.
This drug is having amazing success treating the coronavirus.
But the liberal media would rather see people die than report the truth on this treatment.
80 Patients and Staff Members Come Down with Coronavirus at Texas Nursing Home –
Dr. Armstrong and others at the Resort at Texas City Nursing home knew time wasn't on their side.
"Two of our residents had symptoms and that's when we tested everybody," said nursing home Executive Director Jan Piveral.
56 residents and 33 staff members were COVID-19 positive.
"Our Goal was to make sure we could shelter them in place so we don't spread it to other people," Armstrong said. "Then also at the same time treat them so they would get better."
Armstrong says he knew residents who ended up in the hospital had a higher mortality rate.
"Our goal was to keep them here and treat them with the medications we had available," he said.
When Armstrong began administering Hydroxychloroquine to it was controversial but appeared promising.
Armstrong's approach was to begin administering Hydroxychloroquine a Zpac and Zinc just as soon as a resident first started showing symptoms.
The patients were being monitored daily.
"We did EKGs on each of these patients to make sure they didn't have the cardiac side effects that everyone talks about," Armstrong said. "None of our patients did."
Armstrong doesn't call the Hydroxychloroquine a cure and is aware of all the recent reports that say the drug shouldn't be used to treat COVID-19.
But he points out only one of the nursing homes COVID-19 patients has died.
"Everyone who got on treatment who started on treatment is actually doing really well," he said.
If this isn't an obvious proof, I don't know what the hell is - It was Real World and Large numbers]
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: Anonymous on May 02, 2020, 03:04:08 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 02, 2020, 03:04:08 PM
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: cc on May 02, 2020, 03:10:27 PM
Post by: cc on May 02, 2020, 03:10:27 PM
it has today 2,500 less total cases today than yesterday
Fuck you progs playing your games with people's lives ... even Wordometer is playing games
Sweden Yesterday 24,520 Total Cases
Sweden Today 22,082 Total Cases
- Figure that one out!!!!
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: Anonymous on May 02, 2020, 03:15:37 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 02, 2020, 03:15:37 PM
Sweden is doing so well, they have today 2,500 less total cases today than yesterdayQuote from: "cc"
Fuck you progs playing your games with people's lives ... even Wordometer is playing games
I have followed it closely for many countries for 1 1/2 months ... They DO NOT make mistakes
Sweden Yesterday 24,520 Total Cases
Sweden Today 22,082 Total Cases
- Figure that one out!!!!
Maybe they made a mistake with either number.
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: cc on May 02, 2020, 03:17:06 PM
Post by: cc on May 02, 2020, 03:17:06 PM
Let's see how they deal with tomorrow (might be available late today due to time difference)
I will concede that yesterday showed a large increase
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: Anonymous on May 02, 2020, 03:19:55 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 02, 2020, 03:19:55 PM
I have followed it closely for many countries for 1 1/2 months and have previous data saved in a chart ... They DO NOT make mistakesQuote from: "cc"
Than I don't know. I would really like to read more about the hydroxy results from Texas.
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: cc on May 02, 2020, 03:25:42 PM
Post by: cc on May 02, 2020, 03:25:42 PM
I can't find another one I didn't save
There are You tube videos of Dr Armstrong being interviewed - Wellll . at least there were last night
In fact, the TV Station story I posted above has a video in the link with Armstrong and another doc involved in it
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: Anonymous on May 02, 2020, 03:37:02 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 02, 2020, 03:37:02 PM
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: Gaon on May 02, 2020, 06:55:31 PM
Post by: Gaon on May 02, 2020, 06:55:31 PM
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: Anonymous on May 03, 2020, 04:50:08 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 03, 2020, 04:50:08 PM
Perhaps, I am overstepping my bounds, but it seems the reason cc, Herman and kiebers are not against lockdowns as a solution to the coronavirus is because they can afford to isolate.Quote from: "Gaon"
And then there is Mel who just wants to be a bum. TVG is a healthy younger guy who is convinced he will die if he catches the coronavirus.
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: Anonymous on May 03, 2020, 07:29:14 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 03, 2020, 07:29:14 PM
Perhaps, I am overstepping my bounds, but it seems the reason cc, Herman and kiebers are not against lockdowns as a solution to the coronavirus is because they can afford to isolate.Quote from: "Gaon"
And then there is Mel who just wants to be a bum. TVG is a healthy younger guy who is convinced he will die if he catches the coronavirus.
The chances of TVG getting really sick if he caught the coronavirus is quite low let alone dying from it. We could be a year or more away from a vaccine. We can slow, but we can't stop people from catching the virus, and why would we want to stop young healthy people from catching it. Without a vaccine that's how we build immunity. I know if I caught the virus, I will survive, and I'll be better off because of it. Who knows, maybe TVG has caught the virus and is asymptomatic. The guy is worrying himself needlessly.
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: Anonymous on May 03, 2020, 08:59:35 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 03, 2020, 08:59:35 PM
Perhaps, I am overstepping my bounds, but it seems the reason cc, Herman and kiebers are not against lockdowns as a solution to the coronavirus is because they can afford to isolate.Quote from: "Gaon"
And then there is Mel who just wants to be a bum. TVG is a healthy younger guy who is convinced he will die if he catches the coronavirus.
The chances of TVG getting really sick if he caught the coronavirus is quite low let alone dying from it. We could be a year or more away from a vaccine. We can slow, but we can't stop people from catching the virus, and why would we want to stop young healthy people from catching it. Without a vaccine that's how we build immunity. I know if I caught the virus, I will survive, and I'll be better off because of it. Who knows, maybe TVG has caught the virus and is asymptomatic. The guy is worrying himself needlessly.
I talk almost everyday with somebody that caught the virus and is now almost completely recovered..
This person is older than TVG too..
I hope TVG doesn't catch the virus, but if he does I'm sure he'll make a full recovery if it make him sick.
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: Anonymous on May 03, 2020, 10:37:08 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 03, 2020, 10:37:08 PM
Perhaps, I am overstepping my bounds, but it seems the reason cc, Herman and kiebers are not against lockdowns as a solution to the coronavirus is because they can afford to isolate.Quote from: "Gaon"
And then there is Mel who just wants to be a bum. TVG is a healthy younger guy who is convinced he will die if he catches the coronavirus.
The chances of TVG getting really sick if he caught the coronavirus is quite low let alone dying from it. We could be a year or more away from a vaccine. We can slow, but we can't stop people from catching the virus, and why would we want to stop young healthy people from catching it. Without a vaccine that's how we build immunity. I know if I caught the virus, I will survive, and I'll be better off because of it. Who knows, maybe TVG has caught the virus and is asymptomatic. The guy is worrying himself needlessly.
I talk almost everyday with somebody that caught the virus and is now almost completely recovered..
This person is older than TVG too..
I hope TVG doesn't catch the virus, but if he does I'm sure he'll make a full recovery if it make him sick.
Maybe old TVG is asthmatic. But, if he aint, he shouldn't panic.
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: cc on May 04, 2020, 12:04:22 AM
Post by: cc on May 04, 2020, 12:04:22 AM
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: Anonymous on May 04, 2020, 12:07:11 AM
Post by: Anonymous on May 04, 2020, 12:07:11 AM
https://twitter.com/MaybeAmes/status/1256422097489997824?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1256422097489997824&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thegatewaypundit.com%2F2020%2F05%2Fmichigan-pilot-gives-special-f-u-shout-tyrannical-governor-whitmer-plane%2F
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: Anonymous on May 04, 2020, 01:11:10 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 04, 2020, 01:11:10 PM
Perhaps, I am overstepping my bounds, but it seems the reason cc, Herman and kiebers are not against lockdowns as a solution to the coronavirus is because they can afford to isolate.Quote from: "Gaon"
And then there is Mel who just wants to be a bum. TVG is a healthy younger guy who is convinced he will die if he catches the coronavirus.
The chances of TVG getting really sick if he caught the coronavirus is quite low let alone dying from it. We could be a year or more away from a vaccine. We can slow, but we can't stop people from catching the virus, and why would we want to stop young healthy people from catching it. Without a vaccine that's how we build immunity. I know if I caught the virus, I will survive, and I'll be better off because of it. Who knows, maybe TVG has caught the virus and is asymptomatic. The guy is worrying himself needlessly.
I read an article by a doctor from the United Kingdom who said that we need young, healthy people catching the coronavirus. He said that until there's a vaccine, herd immunity is the only real solution.
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: kiebers on May 04, 2020, 01:43:35 PM
Post by: kiebers on May 04, 2020, 01:43:35 PM
Perhaps, I am overstepping my bounds, but it seems the reason cc, Herman and kiebers are not against lockdowns as a solution to the coronavirus is because they can afford to isolate.Quote from: "Gaon"
Don't think I have said that. I have said that's it's business as usual for the wife and I with no change other than masks when necessary. I'm retired and she is an essential worker. I'm not necessarily for lockdowns across the board but I do believe they may be necessary in some cities. I am so ready for it to be over with which is why I posted about Texas going back to work.
And your not overstepping any bounds as far as I'm concerned.
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: cc on May 04, 2020, 03:49:10 PM
Post by: cc on May 04, 2020, 03:49:10 PM
https://twitter.com/MaybeAmes/status/1256422097489997824?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1256422097489997824&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thegatewaypundit.com%2F2020%2F05%2Fmichigan-pilot-gives-special-f-u-shout-tyrannical-governor-whitmer-plane%2F
Last few days appear to show new cases in Sweden are decreasing .. good news if numbers are correct and that this short trend continues
A fact of life to understand also no matter what individual opinions are > many fail to know that unseen in the numbers is that many children have got it and died - and that others survived with various and permanent life-altering damages they will carry and suffer with for life .. This one is not a simple flu
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: Oak on May 04, 2020, 05:12:22 PM
Post by: Oak on May 04, 2020, 05:12:22 PM
Sweden is doing so well, they have today 2,500 less total cases today than yesterdayQuote from: "cc"
Fuck you progs playing your games with people's lives ... even Wordometer is playing games
I have followed it closely for many countries for 1 1/2 months ... They DO NOT make mistakes
Sweden Yesterday 24,520 Total Cases
Sweden Today 22,082 Total Cases
- Figure that one out!!!!
Maybe they made a mistake with either number.
You're no longer a case after you're dead.
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: cc on May 04, 2020, 05:30:21 PM
Post by: cc on May 04, 2020, 05:30:21 PM
Sweden is doing so well, they have today 2,500 less total cases today than yesterdayQuote from: "cc"
Fuck you progs playing your games with people's lives ... even Wordometer is playing games
I have followed it closely for many countries for 1 1/2 months ... They DO NOT make mistakes
Sweden Yesterday 24,520 Total Cases
Sweden Today 22,082 Total Cases
- Figure that one out!!!!
Maybe they made a mistake with either number.
Yes. Likely an error based on current numbers which appear to be improving
Strange as from my records Worldometer rarely screws up
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: Anonymous on May 04, 2020, 07:02:09 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 04, 2020, 07:02:09 PM
Perhaps, I am overstepping my bounds, but it seems the reason cc, Herman and kiebers are not against lockdowns as a solution to the coronavirus is because they can afford to isolate.Quote from: "Gaon"
I missed this one.
I can tell you that I am semi retired and I own a working farm. I did pretty well when I was working full time and my old lady is professionally employed.
As I have said, I could isolate for a couple of years if I had to. But, my twenty nine year old son and his pregnant girlfriend cannot. My soon to be born grandchild will be paying for this lockdown. I want to open up for their sakes.
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: Gaon on May 04, 2020, 08:05:50 PM
Post by: Gaon on May 04, 2020, 08:05:50 PM
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: cc on May 04, 2020, 08:45:59 PM
Post by: cc on May 04, 2020, 08:45:59 PM
I'm after facts as we ALL know so little about it .. yet many are telling us what to do or not do without facts .. rather based on conjecture and assumptions
Of course, we all hope it will, but today we don't scientifically even know if immunity will last .. nor do we know if those asymptomatic are immune (that's a very important matter .. an unknown that many are basing their opinions on)
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: Anonymous on May 04, 2020, 08:55:27 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 04, 2020, 08:55:27 PM
Poverty and unemployment are a bigger disaster than the virus itself by any measure. Poor countries are unhealthy countries.Quote from: "Gaon"
You are right, crashing economies are disastrous. But, there are so many unknowns about COVID-19. We have been unable to get the information our epidemiologists need to know. We are learning as we go through a global pandemic. We are erring on the side of caution even though we do know it is creating so many other problems.
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: Oak on May 06, 2020, 03:53:02 PM
Post by: Oak on May 06, 2020, 03:53:02 PM
The state epidemiologist Anders Tegnell told "The Daily Show" that the Swedish strategy had still been successful in many ways.
But he said the no-lockdown strategy was not a conscious decision in favor of more deaths — instead he said the outsize toll was not part of the plan.
About half of Sweden's deaths have been in nursing homes, which prohibit visitors. Tegnell said health officials had thought it would be easier to keep the disease away from them.
The man leading Sweden's coronavirus response says the country's elevated death toll "really came as a surprise to us."
Dr. Anders Tegnell, Sweden's state epidemiologist, appeared on "The Daily Show with Trevor Noah" on Tuesday, when he described the country's controversial approach.
"We never really calculated with a high death toll initially, I must say," he said.
"We calculated on more people being sick, but the death toll really came as a surprise to us."
As of Tuesday, Sweden reported more than 2,700 COVID-19 deaths and more than 23,000 infections. That death toll is far higher than its Nordic neighbors' and many other countries that locked down."
Title: Re: Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks
Post by: Anonymous on May 06, 2020, 04:07:38 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 06, 2020, 04:07:38 PM