THeBlueCashew

Quote from: "Shen Li"

Quote from: "Real Woman"There were many Odi.  I played center in basketball.  I was on an undefeated volleyball team.  I was the captain of my high school badminton team.  I kick boxed competitively for many years.  I ran track in addition to throwing discus.  I played rugby.  I used to swim competitively.  The list goes on...

Are you in any adult rec. leagues these days?

Quote from: "Real Woman"

Quote from: "Shen Li"

Quote from: "Real Woman"There were many Odi.  I played center in basketball.  I was on an undefeated volleyball team.  I was the captain of my high school badminton team.  I kick boxed competitively for many years.  I ran track in addition to throwing discus.  I played rugby.  I used to swim competitively.  The list goes on...

Are you in any adult rec. leagues these days?

Yeah for badminton and I distance run.  I don't have the energy or time for much else.

Quote from: "Real Woman"No not a league.  It's just the other thing I use to keep myself fit.  I do belong to a local running group though.  You talk about shoes, trails and other self congratulatory crap that doesn't interest me.  It's good if you want to find a partner to go running with though.

Quote from: "Real Woman"As if I could resist this gem of a topic!  I have to admit that I enjoy that you folks still think of me and that I made such an impression. I have really missed chatting with you folks, and I have always read the boards so I never really lost touch.



True to form, I wanted to clear some things up:



- I'm not pro big government.  I'm anti stupid government.

- I was/am indeed mouthy.

- I know when to shut up, I just chose not to.

- I read that piece of shit book.  It sucked balls Gary and not in the good sexy way either.  I ask that you stop torturing people with such shitty literature.

- I don't need to have the last word.  I just think it's rude not to reply to someone.

- I had a lot going on when I crapped out on VF.  I was unwell and couldn't cope with any more anger and hatred and for one of the first times ever, someone actually managed to hurt me with some harsh words.



Anyway, it's nice to see you all again although I have to say, I have no idea who Obvious Li is. :/

Quote from: "Real Woman"I'm just fine thanks.



:)

Quote from: "Real Woman"Yes I did.  It was crap start to finish.

Quote from: "Chickenfeets"RealWoman is a flower.



She makes up for 10,000 Odinsons.



I am happy to see her on the interwebs again.

Quote from: "Real Woman"Thank you two.  I hope I can live up to expectation.

Quote from: "Real Woman"Well opinions aside my dear, I come armed with facts over opinion and conjecture.  Munday should remember that from the pension lecture he got last time he went toe to toe with me. :)

Quote from: "Real Woman"I didn't take it that you did :). I meant the other guys haha

Quote from: "Fashionista"

Quote from: "Real Woman"Well opinions aside my dear, I come armed with facts over opinion and conjecture.  Munday should remember that from the pension lecture he got last time he went toe to toe with me. :)

Oh I am sorry Ms. Real Woman, I never meant to imply what you say is not based on facts.

Quote from: "Obvious Li"

Quote from: "Fashionista"

Quote from: "Real Woman"Well opinions aside my dear, I come armed with facts over opinion and conjecture.  Munday should remember that from the pension lecture he got last time he went toe to toe with me. :)

Oh I am sorry Ms. Real Woman, I never meant to imply what you say is not based on facts.

lol...she is almost as full of shit as odintard.......i think i schooled you fairly handily on the pension issue...if memory serves correctly........... :mrgreen:  :ugeek:

Quote from: "Obvious Li"

Quote from: "Fashionista"

Quote from: "Real Woman"Well opinions aside my dear, I come armed with facts over opinion and conjecture.  Munday should remember that from the pension lecture he got last time he went toe to toe with me. :)

Oh I am sorry Ms. Real Woman, I never meant to imply what you say is not based on facts.

lol...she is almost as full of shit as odintard.......i think i schooled you fairly handily on the pension issue...if memory serves correctly........... :mrgreen:  :ugeek:

Quote from: "Obvious Li"

Quote from: "Fashionista"

Quote from: "Real Woman"Well opinions aside my dear, I come armed with facts over opinion and conjecture.  Munday should remember that from the pension lecture he got last time he went toe to toe with me. :)

Oh I am sorry Ms. Real Woman, I never meant to imply what you say is not based on facts.

lol...she is almost as full of shit as odintard.......i think i schooled you fairly handily on the pension issue...if memory serves correctly........... :mrgreen:  :ugeek:

Quote from: "Real Woman"

Quote from: "Obvious Li"

Quote from: "Fashionista"
Oh I am sorry Ms. Real Woman, I never meant to imply what you say is not based on facts.

lol...she is almost as full of shit as odintard.......i think i schooled you fairly handily on the pension issue...if memory serves correctly........... :mrgreen:  :ugeek:

Your memory doesn't serve you correctly at all.  



What happened was you claimed I knew fuck all about pension plans and I proved otherwise.  Then you asked me if I preferred DB plans or DC plans.  I explained my choice and then never heard from you in the thread again.  I imagine it was because my selection was your pick as well and my points were solid in supporting my choice.



So I'm not quite sure where you schooled me between saying I knew nothing and then ignoring the thread like a little bitch :)

Quote from: "Real Woman"You're lucky Fashionista.

Quote from: "Real Woman"That would be considered a Group RRSP rather than a defined contribution plan as DCs usually have the employer portion of the contribution managed by the employer.

Quote from: "Fashionista"

Quote from: "Real Woman"

Quote from: "Obvious Li"




lol...she is almost as full of shit as odintard.......i think i schooled you fairly handily on the pension issue...if memory serves correctly........... :mrgreen:  :ugeek:

Your memory doesn't serve you correctly at all.  



What happened was you claimed I knew fuck all about pension plans and I proved otherwise.  Then you asked me if I preferred DB plans or DC plans.  I explained my choice and then never heard from you in the thread again.  I imagine it was because my selection was your pick as well and my points were solid in supporting my choice.



So I'm not quite sure where you schooled me between saying I knew nothing and then ignoring the thread like a little bitch :)

I have a defined benefit plan Ms. Real Woman.

Quote from: "Shen Li"

Quote from: "Fashionista"

Quote from: "Real Woman"
Your memory doesn't serve you correctly at all.  



What happened was you claimed I knew fuck all about pension plans and I proved otherwise.  Then you asked me if I preferred DB plans or DC plans.  I explained my choice and then never heard from you in the thread again.  I imagine it was because my selection was your pick as well and my points were solid in supporting my choice.



So I'm not quite sure where you schooled me between saying I knew nothing and then ignoring the thread like a little bitch :)

I have a defined benefit plan Ms. Real Woman.

Alberta's pension liabilities are something like $14 billion. I would suggest you save everything you can.

Quote from: "Obvious Li"

Quote from: "Shen Li"

Quote from: "Fashionista"
I have a defined benefit plan Ms. Real Woman.

Alberta's pension liabilities are something like $14 billion. I would suggest you save everything you can.

canadas total unfunded liabilities (mostly pensions)are close to 600 billion....thus the term union slugs

Quote from: "Real Woman"So Munday, the government NEGOTIATES pension plans with unionized workers at part of their compensation packages and the unions are assholes?  Little one sides on the insults wouldn't you say?

Quote from: "Real Woman"I can't say I am Fashionista.

Quote from: "Real Woman"I had a look.  It's something I have seen here in BC already with other public sector unions.  Legislation or not, the government will find a way to "net zero" budget lines when they wish to do so whether it be through wage increase freezes, lay offs, hourly reductions, etc.  



As someone from BC, I have a hard time listening to an Albertan bitch about taxation.

Quote from: "Real Woman"I bet it does.  No other employer has that kind of power, nor should the government but I imagine such legislation would be met with a legal challenge.



Either way Fash, they will likely get their way on net zero.

Quote from: "Real Woman"So Munday, the government NEGOTIATES pension plans with unionized workers at part of their compensation packages and the unions are assholes?  Little one sides on the insults wouldn't you say?

Quote from: "Obvious Li"

Quote from: "Real Woman"So Munday, the government NEGOTIATES pension plans with unionized workers at part of their compensation packages and the unions are assholes?  Little one sides on the insults wouldn't you say?

this is exactly why i find it impossible to take you and your compadres seriously......liberals and dippers negotiating pay and pensions with their union brothers and sisters.....lets see, what could we compare that too......Hmmmm how about the vancouver PD investigating itself over tasering and killing innocent people and finding zero fault......jesus....the fucking liberals just opened the candy store and said.....cmon on in ..it's yours..... :ugeek:



and no...i blame successive socialist governments more than the union thugs for this debacle....we need to immediately roll back and/or scrap ALL government DB pensions in this country

Quote from: "Fashionista"

Quote from: "Obvious Li"

Quote from: "Real Woman"So Munday, the government NEGOTIATES pension plans with unionized workers at part of their compensation packages and the unions are assholes?  Little one sides on the insults wouldn't you say?

this is exactly why i find it impossible to take you and your compadres seriously......liberals and dippers negotiating pay and pensions with their union brothers and sisters.....lets see, what could we compare that too......Hmmmm how about the vancouver PD investigating itself over tasering and killing innocent people and finding zero fault......jesus....the fucking liberals just opened the candy store and said.....cmon on in ..it's yours..... :ugeek:



and no...i blame successive socialist governments more than the union thugs for this debacle....we need to immediately roll back and/or scrap ALL government DB pensions in this country

I don't think that is a fair analogy and not just because my brother is a policeman.

Quote from: "Obvious Li"this is exactly why i find it impossible to take you and your compadres seriously......liberals and dippers negotiating pay and pensions with their union brothers and sisters.....lets see, what could we compare that too......Hmmmm how about the vancouver PD investigating itself over tasering and killing innocent people and finding zero fault......jesus....the fucking liberals just opened the candy store and said.....cmon on in ..it's yours..... :ugeek:



and no...i blame successive socialist governments more than the union thugs for this debacle....we need to immediately roll back and/or scrap ALL government DB pensions in this country

Quote from: "Obvious Li"

Quote from: "Real Woman"So Munday, the government NEGOTIATES pension plans with unionized workers at part of their compensation packages and the unions are assholes?  Little one sides on the insults wouldn't you say?

this is exactly why i find it impossible to take you and your compadres seriously......liberals and dippers negotiating pay and pensions with their union brothers and sisters.....lets see, what could we compare that too......Hmmmm how about the vancouver PD investigating itself over tasering and killing innocent people and finding zero fault......jesus....the fucking liberals just opened the candy store and said.....cmon on in ..it's yours..... :ugeek:



and no...i blame successive socialist governments more than the union thugs for this debacle....we need to immediately roll back and/or scrap ALL government DB pensions in this country

Quote from: "seoulbro"I have no problem with private sector unions, but there is no way the civil service should be allowed to organize.

Quote from: "Real Woman"

Quote from: "seoulbro"I have no problem with private sector unions, but there is no way the civil service should be allowed to organize.

So you think it is demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society to limit the Charter right of freedom of association as it pertains to public sector workers?

Quote from: "seoulbro"

Quote from: "Real Woman"

Quote from: "seoulbro"I have no problem with private sector unions, but there is no way the civil service should be allowed to organize.

So you think it is demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society to limit the Charter right of freedom of association as it pertains to public sector workers?

Private-sector unions fight with management over an equitable distribution of profits. Government unions negotiate with friendly politicians over taxpayer money, putting the public interest at odds with union interests, and, as we've seen in states such as California and Wisconsin, exploding the cost of government. California's pension costs soared 2,000 percent in a decade thanks to the unions.



The labor-politician negotiations can't be fair when the unions can put so much money into campaign spending. Victor Gotbaum, a leader in the New York City chapter of AFSCME, summed up the problem in 1975 when he boasted, "We have the ability, in a sense, to elect our own boss."



This is why FDR believed that "the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service," and why even George Meany, the first head of the AFL-CIO, held that it was "impossible to bargain collectively with the government."

Quote from: "Real Woman"

Quote from: "seoulbro"I have no problem with private sector unions, but there is no way the civil service should be allowed to organize.

So you think it is demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society to limit the Charter right of freedom of association as it pertains to public sector workers?

Quote from: "Obvious Li"

Quote from: "seoulbro"

Quote from: "Real Woman"
So you think it is demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society to limit the Charter right of freedom of association as it pertains to public sector workers?

Private-sector unions fight with management over an equitable distribution of profits. Government unions negotiate with friendly politicians over taxpayer money, putting the public interest at odds with union interests, and, as we've seen in states such as California and Wisconsin, exploding the cost of government. California's pension costs soared 2,000 percent in a decade thanks to the unions.



The labor-politician negotiations can't be fair when the unions can put so much money into campaign spending. Victor Gotbaum, a leader in the New York City chapter of AFSCME, summed up the problem in 1975 when he boasted, "We have the ability, in a sense, to elect our own boss."



This is why FDR believed that "the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service," and why even George Meany, the first head of the AFL-CIO, held that it was "impossible to bargain collectively with the government."

bingo bango bongo...........give the man a cigar...........he wins

Quote from: "seoulbro"
Private-sector unions fight with management over an equitable distribution of profits. Government unions negotiate with friendly politicians over taxpayer money, putting the public interest at odds with union interests, and, as we've seen in states such as California and Wisconsin, exploding the cost of government. California's pension costs soared 2,000 percent in a decade thanks to the unions.



The labor-politician negotiations can't be fair when the unions can put so much money into campaign spending. Victor Gotbaum, a leader in the New York City chapter of AFSCME, summed up the problem in 1975 when he boasted, "We have the ability, in a sense, to elect our own boss."



This is why FDR believed that "the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service," and why even George Meany, the first head of the AFL-CIO, held that it was "impossible to bargain collectively with the government."

Quote from: "Obvious Li"

Quote from: "Real Woman"

Quote from: "seoulbro"I have no problem with private sector unions, but there is no way the civil service should be allowed to organize.

So you think it is demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society to limit the Charter right of freedom of association as it pertains to public sector workers?

not only justified ....it should be a criminal offense for public workers to organize and automatic jail time if they strike.......ALL public sector workers should have their wages and benefits scaled back between 25% and 50% effective immediately......thereafter any increases should be tied to inflation.  Firstly we need to take that fucking charter and use it to lite a major bonfire.....hopefully with the 9 supremes tied to a stake above it........... :ugeek:

Quote from: "Shen Li"There is no difference between union-government bargaining and a scenario where two hungry vultures (one union business agent, plus one government bargaining representative) and one bunny rabbit (uninformed taxpayer) are voting on what to have for dinner.

Quote from: "Real Woman"

Quote from: "Obvious Li"

Quote from: "Real Woman"
So you think it is demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society to limit the Charter right of freedom of association as it pertains to public sector workers?

not only justified ....it should be a criminal offense for public workers to organize and automatic jail time if they strike.......ALL public sector workers should have their wages and benefits scaled back between 25% and 50% effective immediately......thereafter any increases should be tied to inflation.  Firstly we need to take that fucking charter and use it to lite a major bonfire.....hopefully with the 9 supremes tied to a stake above it........... :ugeek:

Okay, you've stated it should be a criminal offense for public workers to organize but you have yet to state the grounds for such a restriction to a public sector worker's Charter freedoms.  So why should it be criminal?



So you think public workers are overpaid.  Why?  How much do they make that you find out of line?  What benefits do they have that are excessive?



Wage increases are generally tied to inflation rates as is.  



I have to ask, are you aware of the economic benefit to people having money to spend as a means of supporting an economy?

Quote from: "Shen Li"There is no difference between union-government bargaining and a scenario where two hungry vultures (one union business agent, plus one government bargaining representative) and one bunny rabbit (uninformed taxpayer) are voting on what to have for dinner.

Quote from: "seoulbro"The obvious fact that labor unions should be illegal in the public sector is not only recognized by millions today and conveyed in writing in the "Wagner Act" of 1935, it was also clearly communicated by the patron saint of the American labor movement 79 years ago. Although he had a lock on labor's vote, he expressed warning about public sector unions. In a letter he wrote to the president of the National Federation of Federal Employees in 1937, Roosevelt reasoned:



“… Meticulous attention should be paid to the special relationships and obligations of public servants to the public itself and to the government. All Government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service. It has its distinct and insurmountable limitations … The very nature and purposes of Government make it impossible for … officials … to bind the employer … The employer is the whole people, who speak by means of laws enacted by their representatives …"



In his letter Roosevelt goes on to say, “"Particularly, I want to emphasize my conviction that militant tactics have no place in the functions of any organization of government employees. Upon employees in the federal service rests the obligation to serve the whole people … This obligation is paramount … A strike of public employees manifests nothing less than an intent … to prevent or obstruct … government. Such action, looking toward the paralysis of government … is unthinkable and intolerable.”

Quote from: "Real Woman"

Quote from: "Shen Li"There is no difference between union-government bargaining and a scenario where two hungry vultures (one union business agent, plus one government bargaining representative) and one bunny rabbit (uninformed taxpayer) are voting on what to have for dinner.

And the problem is....?

Quote from: "Real Woman"Finish your sentence please.

Quote from: "Real Woman"Oookay...



So how do you feel about the hundreds of billions of dollars union pension plans have invested in the country?

Quote from: "Real Woman"Well I'm miffed about that because the markets are so terrible right now.  Returns on investment aren't great and that's no fault of unions.  



What do you think poor retired people will do to and for this country?  Do you think we won't pay for them one way or another?

Quote from: "Real Woman"

Quote from: "Shen Li"There is no difference between union-government bargaining and a scenario where two hungry vultures (one union business agent, plus one government bargaining representative) and one bunny rabbit (uninformed taxpayer) are voting on what to have for dinner.

And the problem is....?

Quote from: "Renee"

Quote from: "Real Woman"

Quote from: "Shen Li"There is no difference between union-government bargaining and a scenario where two hungry vultures (one union business agent, plus one government bargaining representative) and one bunny rabbit (uninformed taxpayer) are voting on what to have for dinner.

And the problem is....?

I think the problem is that the bunny rabbit (the uninformed taxpayer) ends up becoming dinner or at very least gets stuck with the check.



Nice to see you back but I can't believe you asked that question. :?

Quote from: "Real Woman"Oh believe it woman!



The trouble is, what people call "unions" are a collective of working people who pay taxes.  It also works out that the more money people make, the more income tax they pay (as a general rule) and the more money they spend (which also means they pay more in taxes) which has economic drive.



There needs to be a shift in attitude when it comes to people making decent money or having decent money.  There also needs to be some follow through in thought when it comes to the alternatives.  What does it cost tax payers to have people who don't make much or enough money?

Quote from: "Renee"

Quote from: "Real Woman"Oh believe it woman!



The trouble is, what people call "unions" are a collective of working people who pay taxes.  It also works out that the more money people make, the more income tax they pay (as a general rule) and the more money they spend (which also means they pay more in taxes) which has economic drive.



There needs to be a shift in attitude when it comes to people making decent money or having decent money.  There also needs to be some follow through in thought when it comes to the alternatives.  What does it cost tax payers to have people who don't make much or enough money?

This is union speak for "I'm just like you now hand over your wallet."



We are not talking about private unions we are talking about public worker unions which are funded almost entirely by tax payers. They are a detriment to economic growth because compared to what they take from taxpayers they give very little back in return in overall economic benefit. Ever wonder why some states in the US like Kalifornia and NJ have such high property taxes? Well it's because of the fact that public worker unions are funded entirely thru property tax revenue. In some states retirees can't even stay in their homes because of the tax burden public worker unions such as the teacher's union place on the taxpayer.  Their constant demand for more and more money is given in to with pleasure by the government bargaining agents because it becomes the local and state governments excuse to extort more tax money from the private citizen on a yearly basis. This also benefits the pro union government because meeting the unions contract demands to the letter means that the union will thank them by contributing huge sums of money (which they extort from their membership) to pro-union candidates for reelection. This only benefits the unions and politicians and leaves the taxpayer fucked. This why FDR and George Meany wanted nothing to do with public worker unions. See unlike union bigwigs and todays government leftwing leeches they had a conscience and understood that a public union was a monster that once created would become almost impossible to be rid of and the financial damage they would do would be all at the expense of the tax paying private citizen.

Quote from: "Romero"Public workers definitely give back more than they receive. They're paid a decent wage for the services they provide. Expecting a cost of living increase like everyone else isn't demanding too much.



They do important work, not stuff that anyone can do. They don't deserve less just because they work for government. With a decent wage, public workers only add to the economy. They consume goods, buy property and educate their children.

Quote from: "Romero"Public workers definitely give back more than they receive. They're paid a decent wage for the services they provide. Expecting a cost of living increase like everyone else isn't demanding too much.



They do important work, not stuff that anyone can do. They don't deserve less just because they work for government. With a decent wage, public workers only add to the economy. They consume goods, buy property and educate their children.

Quote from: "Renee"Unless you can point to some kind of metric that explains how public worker unions are good for the economy all you did was blow off a whole bunch of bad gas.

Quote from: "Obvious Li"as a wise man once said.....the public service should be shrunk to the size that the remainder could be drowned in a bath tub........true dat.... :ugeek:

Quote from: "Romero"

Quote from: "Renee"Unless you can point to some kind of metric that explains how public worker unions are good for the economy all you did was blow off a whole bunch of bad gas.

I shouldn't have to explain how health care workers, teachers, police, firefighters, utility workers and our armed forces are good for the economy.



They deserve decent wages and benefits.

Quote from: "Obvious Li"

Quote from: "Romero"

Quote from: "Renee"Unless you can point to some kind of metric that explains how public worker unions are good for the economy all you did was blow off a whole bunch of bad gas.

I shouldn't have to explain how health care workers, teachers, police, firefighters, utility workers and our armed forces are good for the economy.



They deserve decent wages and benefits.

and they should all be contract private sector workers......the govt. need not be involved in any of these trades/professions.

Quote from: "Renee"

Unless you can point to some kind of metric that explains how public worker unions are good for the economy all you did was blow off a whole bunch of bad gas.



BTW, for the most part it's not the wages public workers receive or the people themselves that are a problem. It's the cost of benefit packages and unfunded pension plans (as Shen mentioned) that are the problem.

Quote from: "Gary Oak"

Quote from: "Real Woman"Yes I did.  It was crap start to finish.

You coul not possibly have read the epic, illustrious novel Tartan Dragon and come to that conclusion. It is a literary masterpiece. Even 400 lb authors on memebee loved it.

Quote from: "Hornung"

Quote from: "Gary Oak"

Quote from: "Real Woman"Yes I did.  It was crap start to finish.

You coul not possibly have read the epic, illustrious novel Tartan Dragon and come to that conclusion. It is a literary masterpiece. Even 400 lb authors on memebee loved it.

Fan Qing Fu Koff Gary Choking a Chicken. Nobody believes you Gary Choking a Chicken. Everyone know what a f*cked in the head, racist, sinophobic, conspiracy theory nutcase lying cyber bullying arsewipe piece of shite scumbag you really are from your posts.  :D  :)  ;)  :(  :o  :?  Why else would you continue to harass Real Woman to finish that terrible racist poorly selling Tartan Dragon on multiple threads?

Quote from: "Obvious Li"

Quote from: "Romero"Public workers definitely give back more than they receive. They're paid a decent wage for the services they provide. Expecting a cost of living increase like everyone else isn't demanding too much.



They do important work, not stuff that anyone can do. They don't deserve less just because they work for government. With a decent wage, public workers only add to the economy. They consume goods, buy property and educate their children.

as a wise man once said.....the public service should be shrunk to the size that the remainder could be drowned in a bath tub........true dat.... :ugeek:

Quote from: "Shen Li"

Quote from: "Renee"

Unless you can point to some kind of metric that explains how public worker unions are good for the economy all you did was blow off a whole bunch of bad gas.



BTW, for the most part it's not the wages public workers receive or the people themselves that are a problem. It's the cost of benefit packages and unfunded pension plans (as Shen mentioned) that are the problem.

Unionized public sector employees like Fash will sink your daughters and my son. We can't afford their pensions. It's as simple as that.

Quote from: "Real Woman"I finished it Horn.  It had a distinct racist tone and was one of the most poorly written books I have read in my life.  If Gary doesn't recognize that, well he's the fool and doesn't need any assistance in pointing that out.

Quote from: "Fashionista"

Quote from: "Real Woman"I finished it Horn.  It had a distinct racist tone and was one of the most poorly written books I have read in my life.  If Gary doesn't recognize that, well he's the fool and doesn't need any assistance in pointing that out.

I never understood why Gary Oak cared if anyone read that book?

 :?

Quote from: "Real Woman"I'm sorry I'm slacking on the union debates folks.  I'm not feeling well enough today to slog through literature to counter your points more than superficially.  :?

Quote from: "Shen Li"Canadians have known for a long time that the public sector pension scheme is unfair to taxpayers and small business owners, but it is also becoming clear that many public plans are structurally unbalanced and in need of immediate reform. Based on evidence that is available from Statistics Canada, Public Accounts and other sources, the unfunded shortfall for public pension plans across the country likely exceeds $300 billion. That works out to $9,000 from every man, woman and child in Canada.

Quote from: "Obvious Li"

Quote from: "Shen Li"Canadians have known for a long time that the public sector pension scheme is unfair to taxpayers and small business owners, but it is also becoming clear that many public plans are structurally unbalanced and in need of immediate reform. Based on evidence that is available from Statistics Canada, Public Accounts and other sources, the unfunded shortfall for public pension plans across the country likely exceeds $300 billion. That works out to $9,000 from every man, woman and child in Canada.

hey SL.....my info says closer to 600 billion.....equal to the national debt....however i think my stats includes provincial liabilities as well......totally unsustainable and will eventually bankrupt the country if it is not dealt with..... :ugeek:

Quote from: "Fashionista"

Quote from: "Obvious Li"

Quote from: "Romero"Public workers definitely give back more than they receive. They're paid a decent wage for the services they provide. Expecting a cost of living increase like everyone else isn't demanding too much.



They do important work, not stuff that anyone can do. They don't deserve less just because they work for government. With a decent wage, public workers only add to the economy. They consume goods, buy property and educate their children.

as a wise man once said.....the public service should be shrunk to the size that the remainder could be drowned in a bath tub........true dat.... :ugeek:

Before you turn on the taps to drown me in, I would stay in my job even if it was contracted out.

Quote from: "Obvious Li"

Quote from: "Fashionista"

Quote from: "Obvious Li"




as a wise man once said.....the public service should be shrunk to the size that the remainder could be drowned in a bath tub........true dat.... :ugeek:

Before you turn on the taps to drown me in, I would stay in my job even if it was contracted out.

lol Fash........don't worry......i'll get you a private sector union job before the water gets to high.....it will mean you may have to work a little harder though......c'mon be a part of the solution not the problem......... :mrgreen:

Quote from: "Fashionista"

Quote from: "Obvious Li"

Quote from: "Shen Li"Canadians have known for a long time that the public sector pension scheme is unfair to taxpayers and small business owners, but it is also becoming clear that many public plans are structurally unbalanced and in need of immediate reform. Based on evidence that is available from Statistics Canada, Public Accounts and other sources, the unfunded shortfall for public pension plans across the country likely exceeds $300 billion. That works out to $9,000 from every man, woman and child in Canada.

hey SL.....my info says closer to 600 billion.....equal to the national debt....however i think my stats includes provincial liabilities as well......totally unsustainable and will eventually bankrupt the country if it is not dealt with..... :ugeek:

Good morning Mr. Obvious Li..

 :)

That is a lot of money, either figure.

Quote from: "Renee"

Quote from: "Real Woman"Oh believe it woman!



The trouble is, what people call "unions" are a collective of working people who pay taxes.  It also works out that the more money people make, the more income tax they pay (as a general rule) and the more money they spend (which also means they pay more in taxes) which has economic drive.



There needs to be a shift in attitude when it comes to people making decent money or having decent money.  There also needs to be some follow through in thought when it comes to the alternatives.  What does it cost tax payers to have people who don't make much or enough money?

This is union speak for "I'm just like you now hand over your wallet."



We are not talking about private unions we are talking about public worker unions which are funded almost entirely by tax payers. They are a detriment to economic growth because compared to what they take from taxpayers they give very little back in return in overall economic benefit. Ever wonder why some states in the US like Kalifornia and NJ have such high property taxes? Well it's because of the fact that public worker unions are funded entirely thru property tax revenue. In some states retirees can't even stay in their homes because of the tax burden public worker unions such as the teacher's union place on the taxpayer.  Their constant demand for more and more money is given in to with pleasure by the government bargaining agents because it becomes the local and state governments excuse to extort more tax money from the private citizen on a yearly basis. This also benefits the pro union government because meeting the unions contract demands to the letter means that the union will thank them by contributing huge sums of money (which they extort from their membership) to pro-union candidates for reelection. This only benefits the unions and politicians and leaves the taxpayer fucked. This why FDR and George Meany wanted nothing to do with public worker unions. See unlike union bigwigs and todays government leftwing leeches they had a conscience and understood that a public union was a monster that once created would become almost impossible to be rid of and the financial damage they would do would be all at the expense of the tax paying private citizen.

Quote from: "Real Woman"Link?

Quotehey SL.....my info says closer to 600 billion.....equal to the national debt....however i think my stats includes provincial liabilities as well......totally unsustainable and will eventually bankrupt the country if it is not dealt with

Quote from: "seoulbro"

Quote from: "Renee"

Quote from: "Real Woman"Oh believe it woman!



The trouble is, what people call "unions" are a collective of working people who pay taxes.  It also works out that the more money people make, the more income tax they pay (as a general rule) and the more money they spend (which also means they pay more in taxes) which has economic drive.



There needs to be a shift in attitude when it comes to people making decent money or having decent money.  There also needs to be some follow through in thought when it comes to the alternatives.  What does it cost tax payers to have people who don't make much or enough money?

This is union speak for "I'm just like you now hand over your wallet."



We are not talking about private unions we are talking about public worker unions which are funded almost entirely by tax payers. They are a detriment to economic growth because compared to what they take from taxpayers they give very little back in return in overall economic benefit. Ever wonder why some states in the US like Kalifornia and NJ have such high property taxes? Well it's because of the fact that public worker unions are funded entirely thru property tax revenue. In some states retirees can't even stay in their homes because of the tax burden public worker unions such as the teacher's union place on the taxpayer.  Their constant demand for more and more money is given in to with pleasure by the government bargaining agents because it becomes the local and state governments excuse to extort more tax money from the private citizen on a yearly basis. This also benefits the pro union government because meeting the unions contract demands to the letter means that the union will thank them by contributing huge sums of money (which they extort from their membership) to pro-union candidates for reelection. This only benefits the unions and politicians and leaves the taxpayer fucked. This why FDR and George Meany wanted nothing to do with public worker unions. See unlike union bigwigs and todays government leftwing leeches they had a conscience and understood that a public union was a monster that once created would become almost impossible to be rid of and the financial damage they would do would be all at the expense of the tax paying private citizen.

San Jose, California's third-largest city, Stockton, San Bernadino and Vallejo, a much smaller town, and reports that both are facing huge budget problems thanks to the huge cost of public-sector wages and pensions. Such lavish, unsustainable pensions are eating up an increasing percentage of expenditures while these same communities are forced to slash emergency services to pay for them or face bankruptcy.

Quote from: "Renee"[

Sadly that isn't an unusual situation. You will find towns all over the US that face the same reality even if they don't have the guts and good sense to admit it. A lot of towns have resorted to borrowing money to make up the short-fall but towns and cities can only borrow just so much before their credit runs out. After that comes the doubling and tripling of property taxes which equates to mass exodus of residents and a steep rise in home foreclosures.



By their very nature public workers unions can do nothing to improve or grow an economy.

Quote from: "Real Woman"Actually Shen, they are sustainable.  They are merely market reliant.  Interest rates go down and pension plans run deficits.  Interest rates go up and pension plans run surpluses.  



Can we be a little less myopic on the view of sustainability and just do away with the the lefty bashing rhetoric please? (By "we" I mean you.)

QuoteWe are losing front door mail delivery in Canada, but the big story is why we are losing it.



Pension costs.



That's right, those of us who still get mail to our door will lose this service due to the huge cost of the pensions Canada Post needs to pay out.



This is the big story here — not that we are losing a particular style of mail delivery, but why.



Canada Post has a $6.5 billion hole in its pension plan. That means they owe money to pensioners or current employees that they just don't have and that is a big driver of these cuts.



Anyone upset about losing postal service to their door should be upset at the cost of the pension plans on offer to postal workers, the inability of past negotiators to say no and the bad planning that saw this huge, unfunded liability grow.



This unfunded liability means taxpayers will have to bail out Canada Post, either through service cuts or, if that doesn't work, a bailout down the road.



Unfortunately, Canada Post is not alone.



Across the public sector, lavish pensions, the kind no one in the private sector gets, are putting the future of government services at risk.



The Canadian Federation of Independent Business estimates public-sector pension plans across Canada could be on the hook for as much as $300 billion they do not have.



In the future, we will have more retirees and fewer workers.



Canadians have fewer children than 40 years ago when I was a tot and many of these pension arrangements were becoming solidified.



We also used to have five workers for every one retiree; soon it will be two to one.



We won't have enough money to pay for the pensions promised.



What happens then?



Well, look to Detroit for an idea.



Retirees in Detroit were promised pensions the city could not afford and eventually the city went broke.



The city has slashed services and the retirees who were relying on those pensions now face seeing their monthly payments cut as the city restructures.



We need pension reform in this country before the same thing happens.



It might sound cold to argue that we need to cut pension benefits, but what is more compassionate?



Is it promising what can be paid out so people can plan for their future with some certainty, or promising more than we can afford and then granny's pension is cut in half when she is 75 and no longer able to work to supplement her income?



It also isn't fair to ask private-sector workers, who on average earn less than the civil servants they support through taxes, to also pony up for the very generous pensions they won't get themselves.



Most private-sector workers don't have pension plans, they save on their own — or at least they should.



Those who do have pensions likely have defined contribution plans rather than the defined benefit plans so many government workers have.



In defined contribution you, the worker, put in so many dollars, the employers matches it and the money is invested — by you as your retirement fund.



This is what the feds, the provinces and municipalities should be moving toward and they should do it now before it is too late and granny gets cut off in her golden years.

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/12/12/postal-pension-prop-unfunded-liability-means-canadians-will-have-to-bail-out-canada-post

Quote from: "Real Woman"Yeah yeah.  And Air Canada turned around a $3.2 billion dollar shortfall in a matter of a few years.  



It doesn't change the fact that pension plans are market and interest rate dependant.  They are going to fluxuate accordingly.  Is that a difficult concept to grasp or at least an indication of where the focus should be on reducing deficits?

Quote from: "Real Woman"See now "underfunded" is just a buzzword when it comes to public sector pension plans as explained above.



We are in an extended deflation - interest rates have been low for years and years.



It took Air Canada very little time to flip a $3+ Billion dollar deficit into a surplus by ending early retirement and some sound investing.  What does that tell you?



You haven't addressed my question about poverty Munday.  Care to?

Quote from: "Real Woman"I was specific - retired poor.  Think seniors and the elderly with next to nothing for post retirement benefits.  



I don't know how the hell you righties can ignore reality and chalk everything that happens that results in poverty is just bad personal choices.  You saw this while wanting to slash wages and have people be working poor.  It makes no bloody sense to me.

Quote from: "Real Woman"Great.  You believe everyone can find a job but don't believe they should be paid a livable wage. :/

Quote from: "Real Woman"I was specific - retired poor.  Think seniors and the elderly with next to nothing for post retirement benefits.  



I don't know how the hell you righties can ignore reality and chalk everything that happens that results in poverty is just bad personal choices.  You saw this while wanting to slash wages and have people be working poor.  It makes no bloody sense to me.

Quote from: "Obvious Li"well if they reached seniorhood and are broke then they made some piss poor choices or they are/were lazy.....in any case CPP OAS and OAS supplement works out to more than $1500 per month for singles and almost double for couples....there is also subsidized housing for seniors in every major center in canada.....as low as $400/month for an apartment..........pretty fucking generous i say

if more is required then the family is there too help.....since when did the families responsibilities for looking after their elderly become my fucking problem....



it is about time we got back to the concept of PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.........



.remember the biggest reason people are poor is government fees, taxes and regulations.....people could live on $10/hour if the govt. would fuck off outta their lives....stop blaming business

Quote from: "Real Woman"

Quote from: "Obvious Li"well if they reached seniorhood and are broke then they made some piss poor choices or they are/were lazy.....in any case CPP OAS and OAS supplement works out to more than $1500 per month for singles and almost double for couples....there is also subsidized housing for seniors in every major center in canada.....as low as $400/month for an apartment..........pretty fucking generous i say

if more is required then the family is there too help.....since when did the families responsibilities for looking after their elderly become my fucking problem....



it is about time we got back to the concept of PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.........



.remember the biggest reason people are poor is government fees, taxes and regulations.....people could live on $10/hour if the govt. would fuck off outta their lives....stop blaming business

Okay, can you try answering my question applying actual reality please?  



So you bitch about pensions - ones that employees have contributed their own money to - but are fine with people living off of our money in the form of CPP, OAS and housing subsidies?  That makes sense.



People die waiting to get into subsidized housing.  They have long wait lists, as does subsidized care facilities.



Okay, so let's talk personal responsibility - a bunch of PERSONS get together, unionize and negotiate PENSION PLANS which they contribute to so they don't live in poverty when they are old.  Sounds pretty damn RESPONSIBLE to me.

Quote from: "Real Woman"While touting a completely misunderstanding of pension short falls and deficits haha.  Let's start applying some of that common sense on your end Munday.

Quote from: "Real Woman"You can't accept what isn't given.

Quote from: "Fashionista"In all this talk about pensions, one thing I know is that people must save for their own retirement.....defined benefit pension or not.

Quote from: "Odinson"

Quote from: "Fashionista"In all this talk about pensions, one thing I know is that people must save for their own retirement.....defined benefit pension or not.

Yea but people usually think they are forever young when they are young...

Quote from: "Fashionista"

Quote from: "Odinson"

Quote from: "Fashionista"In all this talk about pensions, one thing I know is that people must save for their own retirement.....defined benefit pension or not.

Yea but people usually think they are forever young when they are young...

Lack of preparation for tomorrow you mean.

Quote from: "Odinson"

Quote from: "Fashionista"

Quote from: "Odinson"


Yea but people usually think they are forever young when they are young...

Lack of preparation for tomorrow you mean.

Yea. I have an income other than my job. It should generate sufficient amount of money in my retirement... That is if my life doesnt drastically change before I retire.



I bet it will because I have thoughts of really letting the dogs out big time... Kinda like a last crusade before I die. :D

Quote from: "Odinson"

Quote from: "Fashionista"

Quote from: "Odinson"


Yea but people usually think they are forever young when they are young...

Lack of preparation for tomorrow you mean.

Yea. I have an income other than my job. It should generate sufficient amount of money in my retirement... That is if my life doesnt drastically change before I retire.



I bet it will because I have thoughts of really letting the dogs out big time... Kinda like a last crusade before I die. :D

Quote from: "Obvious Li"

Quote from: "Odinson"

Quote from: "Fashionista"
Lack of preparation for tomorrow you mean.

Yea. I have an income other than my job. It should generate sufficient amount of money in my retirement... That is if my life doesnt drastically change before I retire.



I bet it will because I have thoughts of really letting the dogs out big time... Kinda like a last crusade before I die. :D

lol@Odie.....can't get into too much trouble in your basement big fella...so Cry Havoc  and let loose the dogs of war............good luck with that.......hehehe... :mrgreen:

Quote from: "Fashionista"

Quote from: "Odinson"

Quote from: "Fashionista"
Lack of preparation for tomorrow you mean.

Yea. I have an income other than my job. It should generate sufficient amount of money in my retirement... That is if my life doesnt drastically change before I retire.



I bet it will because I have thoughts of really letting the dogs out big time... Kinda like a last crusade before I die. :D

Pension or no pension, saving is never a bad idea.

Quote from: "Odinson"

Quote from: "Obvious Li"

Quote from: "Odinson"


Yea. I have an income other than my job. It should generate sufficient amount of money in my retirement... That is if my life doesnt drastically change before I retire.



I bet it will because I have thoughts of really letting the dogs out big time... Kinda like a last crusade before I die. :D

lol@Odie.....can't get into too much trouble in your basement big fella...so Cry Havoc  and let loose the dogs of war............good luck with that.......hehehe... :mrgreen:

We dont have big basements... They are kinda like food coburns...



Some houses do have big basements but they are old as a sin.

Quote from: "Fashionista"

Quote from: "Odinson"

Quote from: "Obvious Li"






lol@Odie.....can't get into too much trouble in your basement big fella...so Cry Havoc  and let loose the dogs of war............good luck with that.......hehehe... :mrgreen:

We dont have big basements... They are kinda like food coburns...



Some houses do have big basements but they are old as a sin.

We have a full sized basement..



My husband has made it a very nice.

QuoteFinance Minister Doug Horner is enjoying a brief moment of fiscal responsibility.



After two years of throwing caution to the wind with the province's finances, the minister is finally making a few decisions with an eye to longterm financial sustainability.



Horner has decided the province can no longer wait to tackle its insufficiently funded employee pension plans. Beset by people living longer, a lower ratio of contributors to recipients, and returns on investments that have not met expectations, the government's employee pension plans are now bleeding money with a $10.8-billion unfunded liability. In short, there is not enough money in these plans to meet their obligations.



In January, a coalition of union bosses unveiled a report claiming that everything was, in fact, just fine. The $10.8-billion unfunded liability will just go away. No need to fix what isn't broken.



Alberta taxpayers are illserved by this 'head-in-thesand' strategy. Union bosses claim the financial hole in these pension plans will disappear within nine years without any changes at all to contribution rates or payouts.



This is difficult to fathom, with government projections showing the unfunded liabilities continuing to increase in the next two years to $11.3 billion. That's a 4%, $451-million increase in the province's pension shortfall over the next two years. This is following a 39%, $4.2-billion growth in the size of these unfunded liabilities since 2007-08.



How the union bosses figure this is a license to do absolutely nothing, we may never know. The only way the union bosses' claim could come true is if there is an extraordinary planetary alignment of: abovemarket investment performance, pensioners not living as long as predicted, and the number of active government employees increasing by 37.5% over the next 25 years.



Union bosses would have a self-interested reason to push for an ever-expanding bureaucracy in order to ensure that they have enough contributors to their pension plans.



If any of these three fantasies fail to come true, their own projections will leave a multi-billion dollar hole for someone else to fill.

When that happens, Mr. and Mrs. Taxpayer will have to continue to bail them out.



Whichever happens in 10 to 15 years, today's government union bosses will not be the ones to live with the consequences. They will be lauded for preserving the pension plans as they are today, but they won't be there to suffer the consequences. That's why reforms that put these plans on a solid financial footing are in the interests of taxpayers.



Taxpayers are already bailing out some of Alberta's government pension plans.



In 2007, taxpayers were saddled with an additional $3-billion debt, thanks to a bailout of the teachers' pension plan.



And just this past autumn, Horner quietly announced that taxpayer contributions to the pensions of senior bureaucrats would increase from 19% of salary, to 22%. This, when taxpayers were already contributing 63 cents of every dollar in the plan, with senior bureaucrats contributing just 34 cents.



For a bureaucrat making $150,000 a year, this change is costing taxpayers an extra $4,065 annually.



For this one bureaucrat, taxpayers will be contributing a total of $32,755 a year towards their pension. This while the average Canadian only manages to save $3,544 in RRSPs every year.



Most government employees contribute to their pensions on a 50-50 shared basis with taxpayers, but it has not been sufficient to keep the plans from running up a $10.8 billion unfunded liability.



While the pension plan for senior bureaucrats had a hole of $199 million to plug, the province's overall unfunded pension liabilities are a staggering 54 times larger than that.



There just isn't enough money to do nothing as the union bosses would like you to believe.

Quote from: "Shen Li"Spot on article here written by Derek Fildebrandt of the Canadian Taxpayers Federation on the unsustainability of snivel serpent defined benefit pensions.

QuoteFinance Minister Doug Horner is enjoying a brief moment of fiscal responsibility.



After two years of throwing caution to the wind with the province's finances, the minister is finally making a few decisions with an eye to longterm financial sustainability.



Horner has decided the province can no longer wait to tackle its insufficiently funded employee pension plans. Beset by people living longer, a lower ratio of contributors to recipients, and returns on investments that have not met expectations, the government's employee pension plans are now bleeding money with a $10.8-billion unfunded liability. In short, there is not enough money in these plans to meet their obligations.



In January, a coalition of union bosses unveiled a report claiming that everything was, in fact, just fine. The $10.8-billion unfunded liability will just go away. No need to fix what isn't broken.



Alberta taxpayers are illserved by this 'head-in-thesand' strategy. Union bosses claim the financial hole in these pension plans will disappear within nine years without any changes at all to contribution rates or payouts.



This is difficult to fathom, with government projections showing the unfunded liabilities continuing to increase in the next two years to $11.3 billion. That's a 4%, $451-million increase in the province's pension shortfall over the next two years. This is following a 39%, $4.2-billion growth in the size of these unfunded liabilities since 2007-08.



How the union bosses figure this is a license to do absolutely nothing, we may never know. The only way the union bosses' claim could come true is if there is an extraordinary planetary alignment of: abovemarket investment performance, pensioners not living as long as predicted, and the number of active government employees increasing by 37.5% over the next 25 years.



Union bosses would have a self-interested reason to push for an ever-expanding bureaucracy in order to ensure that they have enough contributors to their pension plans.



If any of these three fantasies fail to come true, their own projections will leave a multi-billion dollar hole for someone else to fill.

When that happens, Mr. and Mrs. Taxpayer will have to continue to bail them out.



Whichever happens in 10 to 15 years, today's government union bosses will not be the ones to live with the consequences. They will be lauded for preserving the pension plans as they are today, but they won't be there to suffer the consequences. That's why reforms that put these plans on a solid financial footing are in the interests of taxpayers.



Taxpayers are already bailing out some of Alberta's government pension plans.



In 2007, taxpayers were saddled with an additional $3-billion debt, thanks to a bailout of the teachers' pension plan.



And just this past autumn, Horner quietly announced that taxpayer contributions to the pensions of senior bureaucrats would increase from 19% of salary, to 22%. This, when taxpayers were already contributing 63 cents of every dollar in the plan, with senior bureaucrats contributing just 34 cents.



For a bureaucrat making $150,000 a year, this change is costing taxpayers an extra $4,065 annually.



For this one bureaucrat, taxpayers will be contributing a total of $32,755 a year towards their pension. This while the average Canadian only manages to save $3,544 in RRSPs every year.



Most government employees contribute to their pensions on a 50-50 shared basis with taxpayers, but it has not been sufficient to keep the plans from running up a $10.8 billion unfunded liability.



While the pension plan for senior bureaucrats had a hole of $199 million to plug, the province's overall unfunded pension liabilities are a staggering 54 times larger than that.



There just isn't enough money to do nothing as the union bosses would like you to believe.

Quote from: "Real Woman"Shen, you need to get your head out of the CTF's ass.  



I explained what under funded liabilities mean.  It means if the government went bankrupt tomorrow, it would be $10 billion short on paying out the pensions of every single contributor.  Is the government going to go pack up shop tomorrow requiring them to pay out?  Of course not.



Again, interest rates will go up and markets will fluctuate and *poof* goes this straw man pension deficit bullshit.



And yes, as the article points out, the personal RRSP as a means of a "pension" later in life has proven to fall short and not offer security down the road.

Quote from: "Real Woman"Shen, you need to get your head out of the CTF's ass.  



I explained what under funded liabilities mean.  It means if the government went bankrupt tomorrow, it would be $10 billion short on paying out the pensions of every single contributor.  Is the government going to go pack up shop tomorrow requiring them to pay out?  Of course not.



Again, interest rates will go up and markets will fluctuate and *poof* goes this straw man pension deficit bullshit.



And yes, as the article points out, the personal RRSP as a means of a "pension" later in life has proven to fall short and not offer security down the road.

Quote from: "Real Woman"Still not listening...



Today's fund is not the fund of tomorrow.  You want a solution to this pension shortfall shit, tell the Bank if Canada to raise interest rates.  Come back in a year following that and see where these plans sit.

Quote from: "Real Woman"Still not listening...



Today's fund is not the fund of tomorrow.  You want a solution to this pension shortfall shit, tell the Bank if Canada to raise interest rates.  Come back in a year following that and see where these plans sit.

Quote from: "Real Woman"Union = the workers



Union administration aren't rich.  Haha. Go into a union office - nothing fancy.



Now Shen darling, what's ridiculous about reality?  I know you want to union bash because you are a frothing rightie but you're screaming wild fire when no one has even lit a match.  This is a political buzzword game and you're falling for it.

Quote from: "Shen Li"

Quote from: "Real Woman"Union = the workers



Union administration aren't rich.  Haha. Go into a union office - nothing fancy.



Now Shen darling, what's ridiculous about reality?  I know you want to union bash because you are a frothing rightie but you're screaming wild fire when no one has even lit a match.  This is a political buzzword game and you're falling for it.

Local 110, check it out.

Quote from: "Fashionista"

Quote from: "Real Woman"Shen, you need to get your head out of the CTF's ass.  



I explained what under funded liabilities mean.  It means if the government went bankrupt tomorrow, it would be $10 billion short on paying out the pensions of every single contributor.  Is the government going to go pack up shop tomorrow requiring them to pay out?  Of course not.



Again, interest rates will go up and markets will fluctuate and *poof* goes this straw man pension deficit bullshit.



And yes, as the article points out, the personal RRSP as a means of a "pension" later in life has proven to fall short and not offer security down the road.

I wish I didn't have to go to work....this is good.

 :)

Quote from: "Keeper"

Quote from: "Fashionista"

Quote from: "Real Woman"Shen, you need to get your head out of the CTF's ass.  



I explained what under funded liabilities mean.  It means if the government went bankrupt tomorrow, it would be $10 billion short on paying out the pensions of every single contributor.  Is the government going to go pack up shop tomorrow requiring them to pay out?  Of course not.



Again, interest rates will go up and markets will fluctuate and *poof* goes this straw man pension deficit bullshit.



And yes, as the article points out, the personal RRSP as a means of a "pension" later in life has proven to fall short and not offer security down the road.

I wish I didn't have to go to work....this is good.

 :)

Me to, Im just glad we found out Gwen IS RW, 26 pages later

Quote from: "Real Woman"

Quote from: "Shen Li"

Quote from: "Real Woman"Union = the workers



Union administration aren't rich.  Haha. Go into a union office - nothing fancy.



Now Shen darling, what's ridiculous about reality?  I know you want to union bash because you are a frothing rightie but you're screaming wild fire when no one has even lit a match.  This is a political buzzword game and you're falling for it.

Local 110, check it out.

Insulators Union?  What about them?  You find the one exception to the rule?  Some union offices invest in infrastructure because it works out to be cheaper than leasing and comes with a return.  Generally, union offices are small little shit holes.

Quote from: "Real Woman"Aww Fashionista!  You are too sweet!



I'm really not good at being someone else.



I don't work in a union office Shen.  They are too low budget for me :)

Quote from: "Real Woman"Yeah we are getting corked and toasted our future retirement security.  



Cheers tax payers!

Quote from: "Real Woman"I'll think of you when I'm in Aruba living up my later years in style.



:)

Quote from: "Real Woman"LOL!



The only thing is, I don't work in the public sector.  



But I'm still going to invite Fash along haha

Quote from: "Real Woman"I'll think of you when I'm in Aruba living up my later years in style.



:)

Quote from: "Shen Li"

Quote from: "Real Woman"LOL!



The only thing is, I don't work in the public sector.  



But I'm still going to invite Fash along haha

Yeah, you two union slugs deserve each other.

Quote from: "Fashionista"

Quote from: "Shen Li"

Quote from: "Real Woman"LOL!



The only thing is, I don't work in the public sector.  



But I'm still going to invite Fash along haha

Yeah, you two union slugs deserve each other.

I know you don't really mean that Shen Li..



Ms. Real Woman, I would happily accept your invitation.

 :)

QuoteFitch Ratings joined Standard and Poor's and Moody's in cutting Puerto Rico's debt to junk status, as the island's debt problems worsen.



Puerto Rico's debt is 93% of the island's gross domestic product - a ratio that is higher than that of Spain.



The island's economy has contracted every year since 2006.



Also on Tuesday, Puerto Rico said it planned to issue general obligation bonds to help with liquidity problems.



Although Puerto Rico's tax-free status has been appealing to investors, recently it has struggled with increasing pension obligations and a sluggish economy.



The current unemployment rate is 14.7% - twice that of the US.



"Recent downgrades have triggered new liquidity requirements and lowered expectations for the market available for the commonwealth's debt going forward," Fitch said in a statement, citing last week's downgrades by Standard and Poor's and Moody's.



Although the island is a territory of the US whose residents are granted US citizenship, it does not have the same status as other states and municipalities.



Notably, there is no provision for Puerto Rico to file for bankruptcy if it cannot raise money to repay its debts.



Puerto Rico's governor Alejandro Garcia Padilla said he had asked the island's legislature for the ability to raise up to $3.5bn in general obligation bonds to help the island pay its debts.



Although Mr Padilla has been successful in reining in costs by trimming pensions and raising taxes, that has not been enough to placate ratings agencies and investors.



An announcement of the bond sale is expected on 18 February.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26143323

Quote from: "Shen Li"

Quote from: "Real Woman"LOL!



The only thing is, I don't work in the public sector.  



But I'm still going to invite Fash along haha

Yeah, you two union slugs deserve each other.

Quote from: "Keeper"

Quote from: "Shen Li"

Quote from: "Real Woman"LOL!



The only thing is, I don't work in the public sector.  



But I'm still going to invite Fash along haha

Yeah, you two union slugs deserve each other.

Fight!!!



Or Mud Wrestle , maybe we can catch a flash of a boobee :D

Quote from: "Keeper"

Quote from: "Shen Li"

Quote from: "Real Woman"LOL!



The only thing is, I don't work in the public sector.  



But I'm still going to invite Fash along haha

Yeah, you two union slugs deserve each other.

Fight!!!



Or Mud Wrestle , maybe we can catch a flash of a boobee :D

Quote from: "Shen Li"

Quote from: "Keeper"

Quote from: "Shen Li"
Yeah, you two union slugs deserve each other.

Fight!!!



Or Mud Wrestle , maybe we can catch a flash of a boobee :D

Videos will soon be available to the general public at a competitive price. ;)

Quote from: "Keeper"

Quote from: "Shen Li"

Quote from: "Real Woman"LOL!



The only thing is, I don't work in the public sector.  



But I'm still going to invite Fash along haha

Yeah, you two union slugs deserve each other.

Fight!!!



Or Mud Wrestle , maybe we can catch a flash of a boobee :D