It's 2014 and a radio station is asking listeners do women share responsibility if they become victims of rape?? :shock: :shock: :shock:
Unfucking believable!!
Quote
In a poll posted Thursday morning on the 630 CHED website, this question was posed to Edmontonians: "It's very controversial but do you think victims of sexual assaults share any blame for what happens?"
Two responses were posted for the poll – one said "no – women should be able to dress, drink and walk as they choose without fear of being blamed" while the other said "yes – if women drink too much, dress too little or walk in harms way they put themselves at risk".
The same question was also tweeted from the station's Twitter account.
It wasn't long before Twitter erupted with a backlash against the poll question from hundreds of Edmontonians, then local MLAs weighed in.
Thomas Lukaszuk, Edmonton-Castledowns MLA and Minister of Jobs, Skills Training and Labour first tweeted the radio station asking if their account had been hacked.
http://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/sparks-fly-over-rape-culture-poll-from-edmonton-radio-station-1.1770246
What's wrong with asking the question?
Quote from: "Real Woman"
Are victims to blame? It's so bloody offensive.
What is offensive about asking about it? People actually think that they are. I wouldn't say said radio station believes it. What's the problem exactly?
Quote from: "Real Woman"
I see it in the same vein as asking if the people of Nanjing were responsible for what we refer to as the Asian holocaust.
The topic comes up all the time though with people making comments about women being blamed because they dress like sluts and get hammered. Why not put it out there in the open for all to see how many people possibly think that way?
Why condemn someone for starting the discussion?
Quote from: "Real Woman"
Why condemn someone for starting the discussion?
I know there are Neanderthals that STILL blame women when they are victims of rape. I find it so incredibly offensive and it seems like a fair number of Edmontonians feel the same.
It's a good thing I don't listen to CHED 630 because I would be boycotting the insensitive pricks.
Okay, so shouldn't we be addressing the neanderthals who think women are to blame for rape rather than boycotting a radio station for discussing it?
Quote from: "Real Woman"
I'll answer a question with a question RW. What do you think the reaction from Toronto's large Jewish community would be if a radio station did a poll asking if the holocaust was a myth? Perhaps, a different poll asking if the holocaust happened, but Jews were partly to blame for undermining Germany's economy? My guess is they would quickly drop the poll and apologize.
Quote from: "Shen Li"
Quote from: "Real Woman"
Why condemn someone for starting the discussion?
I know there are Neanderthals that STILL blame women when they are victims of rape. I find it so incredibly offensive and it seems like a fair number of Edmontonians feel the same.
It's a good thing I don't listen to CHED 630 because I would be boycotting the insensitive pricks.
Shen if you walk down the street in a bad neighborhood, half naked and stoned off your ass and then get assaulted; don't you feel that you should share a wee bit of personal responsibility for what happens? I'm not saying it's right if you get assaulted or that you deserve it but when you do something stupid isn't it your own fault if it turns bad?
You know you do have to be aware that there are some real scumbags out there and you do have to take responsibility for protecting yourself from them. No one else is going to do it for you.
A source in China told me that Chinese girls are kidnapped and raped by the triads. Once they have them they sell them to spy networks who use them to get information from Canada so they can steal more technology from us.
You should work for CSIS Gary.
Quote from: "Shen Li"
Quote from: "Real Woman"
I'll answer a question with a question RW. What do you think the reaction from Toronto's large Jewish community would be if a radio station did a poll asking if the holocaust was a myth? Perhaps, a different poll asking if the holocaust happened, but Jews were partly to blame for undermining Germany's economy? My guess is they would quickly drop the poll and apologize.
I'm well aware of the sensitivity around specific issues. I just don't agree that we shouldn't be discussing these things. Should we pretend no one blames the victim? Should we ignore attitudes we don't like on prevalent issues? How do we have a dialogue when someone says something we don't find acceptable gets a boot crammed down his/her throat?
Quote from: "Renee"
Quote from: "Shen Li"
Quote from: "Real Woman"
Why condemn someone for starting the discussion?
I know there are Neanderthals that STILL blame women when they are victims of rape. I find it so incredibly offensive and it seems like a fair number of Edmontonians feel the same.
It's a good thing I don't listen to CHED 630 because I would be boycotting the insensitive pricks.
Shen if you walk down the street in a bad neighborhood, half naked and stoned off your ass and then get assaulted; don't you feel that you should share a wee bit of personal responsibility for what happens? I'm not saying it's right if you get assaulted or that you deserve it but when you do something stupid isn't it your own fault if it turns bad?
You know you do have to be aware that there are some real scumbags out there and you do have to take responsibility for protecting yourself from them. No one else is going to do it for you.
I think it's time that we stop with the "no one has the right to rape you" spiel and start talking about how to reduce victimization / protect yourself better. In the current climate it seems we can't have THAT discussion because some moron will consider it to be blaming the victim. The thing is, if you don't get victimized, there is no victim!
Quote from: "Real Woman"
Quote from: "Shen Li"
Quote from: "Real Woman"
I'll answer a question with a question RW. What do you think the reaction from Toronto's large Jewish community would be if a radio station did a poll asking if the holocaust was a myth? Perhaps, a different poll asking if the holocaust happened, but Jews were partly to blame for undermining Germany's economy? My guess is they would quickly drop the poll and apologize.
Bingo and that is my whole point RW. If I owned a radio station and one of my jocks or program director came up with something that could lead to a boycott of my station, I'm afraid the person responsible will be looking for new employment.
You and I both know, there are certain things that are NOT allowed to be brought up in discussion. If a politician did this, their career would be toast.
I don't agree that there are social issues that shouldn't be discussed. Why can't we have dialogues about issues like rape without fear of consequence. I hate that this station cut and run. It makes me feel like anyone with a valid discussion point is a damn pussy who has no conviction to stand up for free speech.
Quote from: "Real Woman"
It is the way is RW. I have to be honest though, if I heard a guy say a woman was asking for it, I would cringe or kick him in the nads. I'm pretty open to most free speech, but that really sickens me.
Quote from: "Real Woman"
Quote from: "Renee"
Quote from: "Shen Li"
I know there are Neanderthals that STILL blame women when they are victims of rape. I find it so incredibly offensive and it seems like a fair number of Edmontonians feel the same.
It's a good thing I don't listen to CHED 630 because I would be boycotting the insensitive pricks.
Shen if you walk down the street in a bad neighborhood, half naked and stoned off your ass and then get assaulted; don't you feel that you should share a wee bit of personal responsibility for what happens? I'm not saying it's right if you get assaulted or that you deserve it but when you do something stupid isn't it your own fault if it turns bad?
You know you do have to be aware that there are some real scumbags out there and you do have to take responsibility for protecting yourself from them. No one else is going to do it for you.
I think it's time that we stop with the "no one has the right to rape you" spiel and start talking about how to reduce victimization / protect yourself better. In the current climate it seems we can't have THAT discussion because some moron will consider it to be blaming the victim. The thing is, if you don't get victimized, there is no victim!
I agree 100%. There is no getting around the fact that some women (not all) get raped because they are stupid and don't take the possibility of assault seriously. It's way past time we had a public discussion about how to keep yourself safe and how to avoid bad situations. It's all based in common sense so what is to fear?
Well apparently Renee, we can't open the dialogue to identifying ignorance never mind talking about how to fix it.
As for me Shen, I'd rather find out why he thinks that way then look into the appropriate way of curbing such stupidity. That doesn't discount a kick to the nuts either.
I think it's offensive because it shouldn't have to be questioned. It's assuming there's a possibility victims of sexual assault may be somehow to blame.
"It's very controversial but do you think victims of murder share any blame for what happens?"
Quote from: "Romero"
"It's very controversial but do you think victims of murder share any blame for what happens?"
I'm with Romero on this one. I don't like this blaming the victim thing. Don't get me wrong RW and Renee, I believe the best way to protect oneself is a good defense. However, if a woman who may happen to be shitfaced at the time does get raped, that should never be a mitigating circumstance for the accused when it comes time for sentencing.
Quote from: "Romero"
"
Yes, sometimes they do. Mess around with the wrong individual and you might end up dead. Not everyone who is murdered in this world is an innocent bystander.
Same goes for rape victims; sometimes they can put themselves into a situation where the odds of being assaulted increase dramatically. It doesn't happen in every case but it does happen.
Look at it this way, a girl goes to a party full of college age guys who are full of bravado and beer; she proceeds to get shit faced, piss drunk and passes out. She wakes up with her little cotton panties in bunch on the floor and an abused crotch. Now ask yourself how stupid was she and could she have handled that situation better? Is she responsible for her own stupid behavior or is her stupidity someone else's problem?
Quote from: "Shen Li"
Quote from: "Romero"
"It's very controversial but do you think victims of murder share any blame for what happens?"
I'm with Romero on this one. I don't like this blaming the victim thing. Don't get me wrong RW and Renee, I believe the best way to protect oneself is a good defense. However, if a woman who may happen to be shitfaced at the time does get raped, that should never be a mitigating circumstance for the accused when it comes time for sentencing.
Not saying it should be a "mitigating circumstance" or some kind of defense. But it is a personal responsibility issue and you can't get around that fact. In certain circumstances your conduct, behavior and judgment is vitally important to your safety.
Quote from: "Renee"
Quote from: "Romero"
"
Yes, sometimes they do. Mess around with the wrong individual and you might end up dead. Not everyone who is murdered in this world is an innocent bystander.
Same goes for rape victims; sometimes they can put themselves into a situation where the odds of being assaulted increase dramatically. It doesn't happen in every case but it does happen.
Look at it this way, a girl goes to a party full of college age guys who are full of bravado and beer; she proceeds to get shit faced, piss drunk and passes out. She wakes up with her little cotton panties in bunch on the floor and an abused crotch. Now ask yourself how stupid was she and could she have handled that situation better? Is she responsible for her own stupid behavior or is her stupidity someone else's problem?
A person buys a liquor store in a neighbourhood with a notoriously high crime rate. A crime rate so high he/she can barely afford the insurance. One night a couple of thugs walk in, shoot him/her and take cash and booze. Should the two accused get a lighter sentence simply because the liquor store owner bought a shop in an area where the odds of being robbed/killed increase dramatically?
i guess i better stay outta this one........
Quote from: "Shen Li"
Quote from: "Renee"
Quote from: "Romero"
"
Yes, sometimes they do. Mess around with the wrong individual and you might end up dead. Not everyone who is murdered in this world is an innocent bystander.
Same goes for rape victims; sometimes they can put themselves into a situation where the odds of being assaulted increase dramatically. It doesn't happen in every case but it does happen.
Look at it this way, a girl goes to a party full of college age guys who are full of bravado and beer; she proceeds to get shit faced, piss drunk and passes out. She wakes up with her little cotton panties in bunch on the floor and an abused crotch. Now ask yourself how stupid was she and could she have handled that situation better? Is she responsible for her own stupid behavior or is her stupidity someone else's problem?
A person buys a liquor store in a neighbourhood with a notoriously high crime rate. A crime rate so high he/she can barely afford the insurance. One night a couple of thugs walk in, shoot him/her and take cash and booze. Should the two accused get a lighter sentence simply because the liquor store owner bought a shop in an area where the odds of being robbed/killed increase dramatically?
I think you are misunderstanding me. I'm not talking about sentencing or right or wrong. I'm talking about personal responsibility. If the shop owner can't afford to set up shop somewhere safer but they are aware of the danger and take the proper steps to minimize that danger then they did everything right to the best of their ability. There is no fault of blame to be attached there.
But if say they didn't have a security system, camera, means of calling the police on the premises, possibly a firearm etc. then I would say they were asking for trouble and were negligent of their own safety as well as the safety of the customers and employees. You can't go thru life with your head in your ass; although a lot of people do.
Now should a killer get a lighter sentence because of the shop owner's negligence; No because the killer broke the law and needs to be punished accordingly. That's a separate issue.
Quote from: "Renee"
How many rape victims are assaulted because they're too drunk or in a bad neighbourhood late at night? Maybe a few percent at the most?
The majority of rape victims are assaulted by someone they know. The question is asking if the average rape victim somehow deserves it, which is quite offensive.
Quote from: "Obvious Li"
Speak your mind man, we wanna know.
Renee,
My parents always told me to be smart and don't make a criminal's job easy for them. I'm sure your parents also told you to stay away from danger whenever possible. You probably have had this conversation with your daughters.
However, a victim is a victim is a victim. If, gawd forbid something happened to one of your daughters, you too would be offended if while driving to the office you heard a poll question like the one CHED did.
Quote from: "Romero"
Quote from: "Renee"
How many rape victims are assaulted because they're too drunk or in a bad neighbourhood late at night? Maybe a few percent at the most?
The majority of rape victims are assaulted by someone they know. The question is asking if the average rape victim somehow deserves it, which is quite offensive.
Percentages are not the issue.
Besides drunken party rape for lack of a better name happens more than you know. Most cases go unreported because of fear, stigma and embarrassment. No girl wants to be known as the drunk chick who gets gang raped at parties.
Quote from: "Romero"
Quote from: "Renee"
How many rape victims are assaulted because they're too drunk or in a bad neighbourhood late at night? Maybe a few percent at the most?
The majority of rape victims are assaulted by someone they know. The question is asking if the average rape victim somehow deserves it, which is quite offensive.
It's asking a question, not stating an opinion. If they would have stated an opinion that women deserve it, then I would consider it offensive as well. They've asked a question around a pertinent social issue, specifically one that deals with attitudes around sexual assault.
Quote from: "Shen Li"
My parents always told me to be smart and don't make a criminal's job easy for them. I'm sure your parents also told you to stay away from danger whenever possible. You probably have had this conversation with your daughters.
However, a victim is a victim is a victim. If, gawd forbid something happened to one of your daughters, you too would be offended if while driving to the office you heard a poll question like the one CHED did.
Alright let's stow the emotional out bursts, please. You are starting to sound like Socks with his anti-gun and anti-hunting arguments.
I'm not debating victimhood, the question was does a victim of sexual assault bear some of the blame? All I'm saying is that in a certain aspect under certain limited circumstances, yes they do, but not from a right or wrong or legal standpoint.
Quote from: "Romero"
"It's very controversial but do you think victims of murder share any blame for what happens?"
We've had this discussion MANY times. As I said, as humans we have to be responsible for our personal security which involves mitigating victimization.
If I leave me doors unlocked and someone breaks in, my insurance company will likely tell me TFB because I didn't secure my property. Does that mean they are blaming me or is it there is an expectation that I am responsible to secure my property? On a criminal level, however, it makes the person who broke into my home no less criminally liable for the act.
Are you seeing the difference?
I hate that we are sending a message to women, specifically young women, that because there is no excuse for rape (including what they are wearing or how much they've had to drink) that they can engage in high risk behaviour and believe there will be no consequences.
Quote from: "Real Woman"
Quote from: "Romero"
"It's very controversial but do you think victims of murder share any blame for what happens?"
We've had this discussion MANY times. As I said, as humans we have to be responsible for our personal security which involves mitigating victimization.
If I leave me doors unlocked and someone breaks in, my insurance company will likely tell me TFB because I didn't secure my property. Does that mean they are blaming me or is it there is an expectation that I am responsible to secure my property? On a criminal level, however, it makes the person who broke into my home no less criminally liable for the act.
Are you seeing the difference?
^ This right here, Thank you.
Quote from: "Renee"
Quote from: "Shen Li"
My parents always told me to be smart and don't make a criminal's job easy for them. I'm sure your parents also told you to stay away from danger whenever possible. You probably have had this conversation with your daughters.
However, a victim is a victim is a victim. If, gawd forbid something happened to one of your daughters, you too would be offended if while driving to the office you heard a poll question like the one CHED did.
Alright let's stow the emotional out bursts, please. You are starting to sound like Socks with his anti-gun and anti-hunting arguments.
I'm not debating victimhood, the question was does a victim of sexual assault bear some of the blame? All I'm saying is that in a certain aspect under certain limited circumstances, yes they do, but not from a right or wrong or legal standpoint.
Shit, is that how I seem?
Don't get me wrong, if I have a daughter I would be telling her to do all of the personal security things you and RW have been talking about. Having said that, even if she failed to heed my advice and was walking home from a bar alone instead of with a group of friends and became a victim, I would want the animal responsible castrated with a rusty saw. No crap about her being partly to blame.
I'll give you a personal example.
My younger sister was mugged a few years back. Some asshole grabbed her purse, pushed her to the ground and ran off. Upon hearing this, my first reaction was "OMG! ARE YOU OKAY?!" That was followed by comments about how I would like to kick the teeth in of the guy who did it. How I hope they find him and throw the book at him!
Then I found out the details...
My sister was walking home from downtown Vancouver to her place on 16th Ave. While her friends all got into cabs, she decided that a drunken walk home alone at 2am was a good idea. What do you think my next comment to her was? It was, "WHAT THE FUCK WERE YOU THINKING?!?!?!" (Or not thinking for that matter.)
Did I blame my sister for what happened or merely point out that she did something that dramatically increased her changes of being victimized?
Regardless of our belief that we SHOULD be able to walk around drunk, in the middle of the night in short skirts and heels, there is a reality out there that includes shitty people who will do shitty things to us. And as I said, I don't want women being given the impression they are "safe" doing what my sister did because no one has the right to do anything illegal to them regardless of the circumstances. People do and people will take advantage of situations and we have a responsibility to make that as difficult for them as possible.
Impart that on your son as well Shen. Women aren't the only ones who can be victims.
Quote from: "Real Woman"
Are you seeing the difference?
A rape victim is nothing like leaving a door unlocked. The majority of rape victims have done nothing to compromise their security. The average woman is just as likely to be raped as any other woman, no matter what precautions they take.
Minors and the elderly are often victims of sexual assault. Sometimes men. We never accuse any of them of engaging in "high risk behaviour".
No one has ever told a woman that they can engage in high risk behaviour and there will be no consequences.
Quote from: "Real Woman"
My younger sister was mugged a few years back. Some asshole grabbed her purse, pushed her to the ground and ran off. Upon hearing this, my first reaction was "OMG! ARE YOU OKAY?!" That was followed by comments about how I would like to kick the teeth in of the guy who did it. How I hope they find him and throw the book at him!
Then I found out the details...
My sister was walking home from downtown Vancouver to her place on 16th Ave. While her friends all got into cabs, she decided that a drunken walk home alone at 2am was a good idea. What do you think my next comment to her was? It was, "WHAT THE FUCK WERE YOU THINKING?!?!?!" (Or not thinking for that matter.)
Did I blame my sister for what happened or merely point out that she did something that dramatically increased her changes of being victimized?
Regardless of our belief that we SHOULD be able to walk around drunk, in the middle of the night in short skirts and heels, there is a reality out there that includes shitty people who will do shitty things to us. And as I said, I don't want women being given the impression they are "safe" doing what my sister did because no one has the right to do anything illegal to them regardless of the circumstances. People do and people will take advantage of situations and we have a responsibility to make that as difficult for them as possible.
First of all RW, I am really sorry about what happened to your younger sister. That's terrible and I have little doubt she has been traumatized by it.
Did your sis take unnecessary risk? Well, of course that's obvious. When she sobered up, I am glad you gave her an earful...good going!! However, it doesn't change the fact that she was the VICTIM of a violent attack. The prick that did that is the same kind of creep who attacks seniors out alone or the handicapped or kids walking home from school.
Catch the fucking the fucking scum that did this to your sister and throw the fucking book at him. Guaranteed your sister is not the first or last person he violently assaults.
Quote from: "Romero"
Quote from: "Real Woman"
Are you seeing the difference?
A rape victim is nothing like leaving a door unlocked. The majority of rape victims have done nothing to compromise their security. The average woman is just as likely to be raped as any other woman, no matter what precautions they take.
Minors and
No one has ever told a woman that they can engage in high risk behaviour and there will be no consequences.
Really?? :shock: What like in nursing homes by staff members? I never heard this before? Details please?
Quote from: "Real Woman"
Quote from: "Romero"
"It's very controversial but do you think victims of murder share any blame for what happens?"
We've had this discussion MANY times. As I said, as humans we have to be responsible for our personal security which involves mitigating victimization.
If I leave me doors unlocked and someone breaks in, my insurance company will likely tell me TFB because I didn't secure my property. Does that mean they are blaming me or is it there is an expectation that I am responsible to secure my property? On a criminal level, however, it makes the person who broke into my home no less criminally liable for the act.
Are you seeing the difference?
I hate that we are sending a message to women, specifically young women, that because there is no excuse for rape (including what they are wearing or how much they've had to drink) that they can engage in high risk behaviour and believe there will be no consequences.
the rare...and i mean rare time she^^^ gets it right she ^^^gets it right......if you dress like a slut, (the look can be debated) are shit faced drunk, and hanging around with a group of drunken young guys then just saying no doesn't cut it......no one deserves to be raped..however, if you put yourself in a situation where the outcome is entirely predictable them i'm afraid you'll find sympathy somewhere between shit and syphilis in the dictionary.....the real tragedy is that it lessens societies sympathies for some one who does everything right and has something like that happen......that's what pisses me off about this new progressive attitude.
No one is saying that the victims of rape are anything but innocent and undeserving, Romero. I just want to make sure the message that steps should be taken to mitigate victimization through personal responsibility doesn't get lost because it's important.
i should have added...if it ever happened to one of my daughters.....even if she was walking around naked....there is no place on earth where i would not find the guy......and no one would find the body.
Quote from: "Shen Li"
Quote
//http://nursinghomeabuseguide.com/elder-abuse/sexual-abuse/
Quote from: "Romero"
Quote from: "Shen Li"
Quote
//http://nursinghomeabuseguide.com/elder-abuse/sexual-abuse/
EEEEWWWWWWWWW!!!!! Fucking sick dude!!
Quote from: "Renee"
Percentages are not the issue.
Besides drunken party rape for lack of a better name happens more than you know. Most cases go unreported because of fear, stigma and embarrassment. No girl wants to be known as the drunk chick who gets gang raped at parties.
I was a drunk girl who got raped at a party.
I was 17 and a virgin. Was I being stupid? I was with friends who I thought I trusted. I didn't actually drink that much. I was with female friends, one of which was a designated driver.
Sometimes personal responsibility can only take someone so far. Yes, I've always been careful. Sadly, sometimes careful isn't enough.
I think what bothers me the most is that we constantly talk about women's personal responsibility. What about the male responsibility? Why is it that we teach girls to be careful, constantly point out what sort of things can happen to them if they dress bad, get drunk, etc..etc.. Where's the lessons being taught to the boys not to rape? Instead they get the whole 'boys will be boys' speech.
Quote from: "ghost"
Quote from: "Renee"
Percentages are not the issue.
Besides drunken party rape for lack of a better name happens more than you know. Most cases go unreported because of fear, stigma and embarrassment. No girl wants to be known as the drunk chick who gets gang raped at parties.
I was a drunk girl who got raped at a party.
I was 17 and a virgin. Was I being stupid? I was with friends who I thought I trusted. I didn't actually drink that much. I was with female friends, one of which was a designated driver.
Sometimes personal responsibility can only take someone so far. Yes, I've always been careful. Sadly, sometimes careful isn't enough.
I think what bothers me the most is that we constantly talk about women's personal responsibility. What about the male responsibility? Why is it that we teach girls to be careful, constantly point out what sort of things can happen to them if they dress bad, get drunk, etc..etc.. Where's the lessons being taught to the boys not to rape? Instead they get the whole 'boys will be boys' speech.
in my world you will not get the boys will be boys speech......i consider rape (actual rape) a capital crime and it should be treated as such....unfortunately today, we have somehow become immune to the myriad of charges under the general category of "sexual assault" that covers everything from leering to actual force-able rape..........and no one even knows what rape is any more......and yes of course the men should be held responsible... after all, it is them perpetrating the crime.....unfortunately i agree, it doesn't always work that way...i am sorry to hear of your experience...as a man there is nothing more despicable to me than another man who picks on someone weaker, physically or sexually...... :ugeek:
sorry ghost i' m not satisfied with my answer to your post....it doesn't convey my feelings regarding how i feel about what you posted......i am both saddened and depressed by the quality of a large percentage of young men i meet today...there seems to be no acknowledgement of a need for self discipline, self control, respect for others, protection of the weak and disadvantaged and on and on.......most are good, but many see an opportunity (i give you the vancouver riots) and the badder angels take control...it does not help that modern music and culture treats women as ho's and bitches.....i know i am rambling but there is nothing more devastating than an assault on your person that leaves you feeling helpless and hopeless......it really bothers me... as parents we owe it to our children to teach them respect for others and as old fashioned as it sounds especially for women.
Quote from: "ghost"
I was a drunk girl who got raped at a party.
I was 17 and a virgin. Was I being stupid? I was with friends who I thought I trusted. I didn't actually drink that much. I was with female friends, one of which was a designated driver.
Sometimes personal responsibility can only take someone so far. Yes, I've always been careful. Sadly, sometimes careful isn't enough.
I think what bothers me the most is that we constantly talk about women's personal responsibility. What about the male responsibility? Why is it that we teach girls to be careful, constantly point out what sort of things can happen to them if they dress bad, get drunk, etc..etc.. Where's the lessons being taught to the boys not to rape? Instead they get the whole 'boys will be boys' speech.
I am sorry that happened to you ghost. That's a terrible thing for any girl or woman to have to go through.
Personal responsibility can only go so far. My concern is the message that no personal responsibility is required because rape just shouldn't happen. It shouldn't happen but it does, especially to young women out on dates or at parties. Anything we can do to protect ourselves as women should bare consideration.
As for boys shouldn't rape, of course they shouldn't! Sexual health taught in school now addresses personal responsibility of young men including their responsibility to not rape women. I will never consider "boys will be boys" as a reasoning for sexual assault.
That's the thing tho, young men aren't being taught not to rape. In fact, there have been many recent cases that have shown pity on rapists and slutshaming on the victim.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/20/poppy-harlow-cnn-steubenville-rape-coverage-criticism_n_2914853.html
http://jezebel.com/fox-news-guest-says-maryville-teen-didnt-deserve-to-be-1447526931
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/04/09/rehtaeh-parsons-suicide-bullying-rape_n_3044885.html
These things make me angry. I agree that young women do need to protect themselves. But at the same time, all this slutshaming isn't okay either. Boys are being taught it's okay as long as they don't get caught. You can argue that young men are being taught personal responsibility, but the message is mixed.
Quote from: "Obvious Li"
Totally agree with you.
One great thing about the Vancouver riots, it showed just how stupid the younger generation has become. "I stole a purse. I'm going to post it on Facebook! Wait. Why am I getting arrested?"
That further supports my point about a need for dialogue on this issue. We can't shy away from talking about a social issue of this importance.
The changes to the education system are fairly new. This generation seems to be lacking in positive male role models. The family unit isn't what it used to be nor is parental guidance. But this issue isn't new.
Quote from: "ghost"
Quote from: "Renee"
Percentages are not the issue.
Besides drunken party rape for lack of a better name happens more than you know. Most cases go unreported because of fear, stigma and embarrassment. No girl wants to be known as the drunk chick who gets gang raped at parties.
I was a drunk girl who got raped at a party.
I was 17 and a virgin. Was I being stupid? I was with friends who I thought I trusted. I didn't actually drink that much. I was with female friends, one of which was a designated driver.
Sometimes personal responsibility can only take someone so far. Yes, I've always been careful. Sadly, sometimes careful isn't enough.
I think what bothers me the most is that we constantly talk about women's personal responsibility. What about the male responsibility? Why is it that we teach girls to be careful, constantly point out what sort of things can happen to them if they dress bad, get drunk, etc..etc.. Where's the lessons being taught to the boys not to rape? Instead they get the whole 'boys will be boys' speech.
Oh my goodness ghost, how horrible.
:(
I can sum this up simple like.
Bring back the harsher Penalties to 3 Province. (test how it does for 5 years)
Categorize it in to 3 laws. We will call it-
No Prisons, no Death row. No Muss No Fuss (of course the laws will need a small bit of work)
I will %100 percent guarantee that in my Province people will think twice before they pull out there dick to rape someone, or get behind the wheel to drive home.
I should be President FFS.
Quote from: "Keeper"
Bring back the harsher Penalties to 3 Province. (test how it does for 5 years)
Categorize it in to 3 laws. We will call it-
I don't view domestic violence or child abuse as minimal crimes Keeper.
Call it what you want, The crime will fit the punishment. I could have called them Meat veg, dairy. What does it matter
Quote from: "Keeper"
I feel family violence and child abuse is very serious.
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "Keeper"
I feel family violence and child abuse is very serious.
ummm okay, im sure alot of people feel that way. what does that have to do with Keepers Laws?
Quote from: "Keeper"
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "Keeper"
I feel family violence and child abuse is very serious.
ummm okay, im sure alot of people feel that way. what does that have to do with Keepers Laws?
I like your new avatar Keeper..
You said domestic violence and child abuse are minimal crimes?
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "Keeper"
Quote from: "Fashionista"
I feel family violence and child abuse is very serious.
ummm okay, im sure alot of people feel that way. what does that have to do with Keepers Laws?
I like your new avatar Keeper..
You said domestic violence and child abuse are minimal crimes?
I also said you can name it what you wanted, it was a generalization, look past the name fash
I like Anthony Furey, but I don't necessarily agree with him on this one.
Quote
These are the adherents of the New Activism who believe that the most pressing issue of our time is the vaguely defined phenomenon "rape culture."
You can't object to their talking points. There is no room for dissent. Even if you simply speak about the issue without using the approved lingo, they'll try to shut you down.
The debate is settled. Even though most people didn't even know it was being had. And don't even really know what it is.
Two recent events remind us of this.
Last week, Edmonton radio station CHED did a story on a panel about "rape culture" and victims being blamed for their assaults.
Because of this they produced a poll question:
"It's very controversial, but do you think victims of sexual assaults share any blame for what happens? No, women should be able to dress, drink, and walk as they choose without fear of being blamed. Yes, if women drink too much, dress too little or walk in harm's way they put themselves at risk."
People erupted in outrage, many claiming this question itself just promoted "rape culture." This in turn prompted an apology on the part of the station manager.
Alberta Labour Minister Thomas Lukaszuk tweeted out: "If your poll is intentional and not a hacked account, I will encourage [the provincial government] to pull all advertising off of your station."
Huh. So a cabinet minister is threatening to redirect government money away from media outlets if they present topics not to his liking?!
As someone considering a run to replace Alison Redford, Lukaszuk better first take time to study what is and isn't the role of government.
Now all of this outrage would be more acceptable if the topic was one that was firmly closed. Radio shows don't generally do "Slavery! Good or bad?" panels.
It's a little hard to find a guest to argue the pro side these days. Such an anachronism would be deserving of derision.
But this is a conversation that, regardless of your opinion on it, is one that's being had in society.
Radio stations, TV shows and newspaper columns are the very places to debate it.
One would also think universities are the last bastion of open thought. Ha. Not at all. Just ask Janice Fiamengo.
For more than a year now, the Ottawa professor and former feminist has been speaking at universities on "rape culture" and how feminism has gone off the rails.
(Her writings are available online, as are some thorough pieces by Cathy Young on the subject.)
Fiamengo is almost always disrupted by activists who righteously believe that the well-mannered professor shouldn't even be allowed to speak.
The other week a questioner bizarrely asked why Fiamengo – before she even started! – should be speaking if those in attendance didn't agree with what she was going to say.
So that's what they're teaching in the hallowed halls of academe these days: She doesn't conform? Shut her down!
But hang on a second. What on earth, the uninitiated will ask, is this "rape culture" to begin with? Are incidents of rape drastically going up? Has the legal framework changed? What should we do?
All good and productive questions. Which brings us to the key point in all of this: This is very much a public conversation that needs to be had.
In other words, chats on Edmonton radio shows and lectures by soft-spoken profs are clearly fair game.
http://www.edmontonsun.com/2014/04/18/the-settled-science-of-rape-culture
I agree that a discussion needs to be had - a frank one at that.
This thread has bothered me for a while now. I questioned why I felt the need to address women in terms of personal responsibility for self security. I guess being a woman, I can relate to the experiences of my own gender, and feel addressing them makes for a more productive approach.
I realised I've had discussions about education, specifically dealing with males and their seeming lack of sexual responsibility and relationship knowledge. Those discussions kept boiling down to family structures and lack of positive role modeling from males in their lives. In their case, men need to step up and do their part in helping boys and young men make right decisions. I think the same holds true for women.
As unfortunate as circumstances can be, and ghost, I've had my own experiences, I still believe we need to send girls and young women a message of truth. The reality is, there are men out there that will take advantage of situations. I'm sorry but I just can't get behind a message that views the world through the rose coloured glasses of "that shouldn't happen" because it does.
Quote from: "Real Woman"
This thread has bothered me for a while now. I questioned why I felt the need to address women in terms of personal responsibility for self security. I guess being a woman, I can relate to the experiences of my own gender, and feel addressing them makes for a more productive approach.
I realised I've had discussions about education, specifically dealing with males and their seeming lack of sexual responsibility and relationship knowledge. Those discussions kept boiling down to family structures and lack of positive role modeling from males in their lives. In their case, men need to step up and do their part in helping boys and young men make right decisions. I think the same holds true for women.
As unfortunate as circumstances can be, and ghost, I've had my own experiences, I still believe we need to send girls and young women a message of truth.
I'm sorry if I gave you the impression women should NOT be smart. It's our duty to be responsible and on guard. However, I do NOT want things like alcohol or walking home alone being mitigating circumstances when it comes to sentencing these creeps. They prey on the vulnerable and if not a drunk chick walking home from a bar then a teenaged girl walking from home school.
Throw the fucking book at the scum who do these things. However, in the mean time take a kung fu class and carry a taser. They are incredibly easy to obtain by the way.
My POV has nothing to do with sentencing but rather prevention. I don't see a woman's state of sobriety or clothing choices as an excuse, justification or defence for rape. I don't think it's right that society applies these excuses for rapists either or paints rapists as victims. That to me is almost as vile as the act itself.
Quote from: "ghost"
Quote from: "Renee"
Percentages are not the issue.
Besides drunken party rape for lack of a better name happens more than you know. Most cases go unreported because of fear, stigma and embarrassment. No girl wants to be known as the drunk chick who gets gang raped at parties.
I was a drunk girl who got raped at a party.
I was 17 and a virgin. Was I being stupid? I was with friends who I thought I trusted. I didn't actually drink that much. I was with female friends, one of which was a designated driver.
Sometimes personal responsibility can only take someone so far. Yes, I've always been careful. Sadly, sometimes careful isn't enough.
I think what bothers me the most is that we constantly talk about women's personal responsibility. What about the male responsibility? Why is it that we teach girls to be careful, constantly point out what sort of things can happen to them if they dress bad, get drunk, etc..etc.. Where's the lessons being taught to the boys not to rape? Instead they get the whole 'boys will be boys' speech.
First let me say I'm very sorry for what happened to you. There is no excuse for how you were violated and I sincerely hope whoever was responsible for the act was punished accordingly.
I agree 100% with your premise regarding how males get a pass on this issue. It shouldn't be all on us but unfortunately this is the culture we live in and until that culture changes, women need to take the proper steps in keeping themselves safe. The other unfortunate part of this is that changing the culture is going to take an almost monumental effort. The "boys will be boys" mindset has been so pervasive for so long that it's an accepted reality in many social circles. As has been already stated, the pop culture of today objectifies and in many cases glorifies the poor treatment of women. Young males at an early age are exposed to the concept that treating women with violence or in an immoral and unacceptable manner is "cool" and an indication of manhood. We are routinely disrespectfully referred to as "bitches" and "hoes" and our worth as human beings is tied directly to our physical appearance and physical attributes. Until that way of thinking is squashed and exposed for the ignorant load of horseshit that it is, women/girls will continue to be victimized by men/boys who think that their bad behavior is acceptable.
Quote from: "Real Woman"
I don't think your looking at this like a guy would RW, Let me explain what I think "the Sexy Clothing" theory is, or what your calling excuses.
If you put 2 women side by side facing you, Black out the faces, Dress girl number 1 in a low cut top, mini skirt so she looked somewhat sexy and than dressed girl number 2 in long sleeve shirt, pants , rubber boots. 99% of men would pick number 1 for looking "sexy"
Now like all you women are saying that you take percussions and not to walk home alone, not get drunk etc... well I think the clothing is just another percussion so that not to show the wrong impression, provoke the pigs to attack the innocent. Should you be able to dress how you like, FUCK YES. But?
im a guy, I know what I know.
Just sayin
Oh, And another thing, WTF is this Boys will be Boys shit. You have heard someone say that? Seriously?
Quote from: "Real Woman"
Oh it's fucking vile and offensive, no question about that.
Quote from: "Renee"
Hmmm, I'm thinking one musical genre in particular here.
Quote from: "Renee"
Quote from: "ghost"
Quote from: "Renee"
Percentages are not the issue.
Besides drunken party rape for lack of a better name happens more than you know. Most cases go unreported because of fear, stigma and embarrassment. No girl wants to be known as the drunk chick who gets gang raped at parties.
I was a drunk girl who got raped at a party.
I was 17 and a virgin. Was I being stupid? I was with friends who I thought I trusted. I didn't actually drink that much. I was with female friends, one of which was a designated driver.
Sometimes personal responsibility can only take someone so far. Yes, I've always been careful. Sadly, sometimes careful isn't enough.
I think what bothers me the most is that we constantly talk about women's personal responsibility. What about the male responsibility? Why is it that we teach girls to be careful, constantly point out what sort of things can happen to them if they dress bad, get drunk, etc..etc.. Where's the lessons being taught to the boys not to rape? Instead they get the whole 'boys will be boys' speech.
First let me say I'm very sorry for what happened to you. There is no excuse for how you were violated and I sincerely hope whoever was responsible for the act was punished accordingly.
I agree 100% with your premise regarding how males get a pass on this issue. It shouldn't be all on us but unfortunately this is the culture we live in and until that culture changes, women need to take the proper steps in keeping themselves safe. The other unfortunate part of this is that changing the culture is going to take an almost monumental effort. The "boys will be boys" mindset has been so pervasive for so long that it's an accepted reality in many social circles. As has been already stated, the pop culture of today objectifies and in many cases glorifies the poor treatment of women. Young males at an early age are exposed to the concept that treating women with violence or in an immoral and unacceptable manner is "cool" and an indication of manhood. We are routinely disrespectfully referred to as "bitches" and "hoes" and our worth as human beings is tied directly to our physical appearance and physical attributes. Until that way of thinking is squashed and exposed for the ignorant load of horseshit that it is, women/girls will continue to be victimized by men/boys who think that their bad behavior is acceptable.
Do young men think their behaviour is acceptable?
Perhaps they know it is very wrong, but they are willing to risk getting caught and arrest?
Much like a thief or some other lawbreaker.
Quote from: "Keeper"
Boys will be boys is a classic example. Girls are taught that while growing up, believe it or not.
The most recent that comes to mind is the Stubbenville rape case from last year where the media sided with the boys, constantly pointing out they were football stars, good boys, got good grades...etc...etc...and attacked the victim for being drunk at a party.
http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/03/18/1732701/media-steubenville/
Here are a few more examples:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2561108/Boys-boys-The-heartless-explanation-lawyer-asked-mother-rape-victim-aged-FIVE-happened-child.html
http://www.marshall.edu/wcenter/sexual-assault/rape-culture/
Quote from: "ghost"
Quote from: "Keeper"
Boys will be boys is a classic example. Girls are taught that while growing up, believe it or not.
Here are a few more examples:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2561108/Boys-boys-The-heartless-explanation-lawyer-asked-mother-rape-victim-aged-FIVE-happened-child.html
http://www.marshall.edu/wcenter/sexual-assault/rape-culture/
What in the fuck do their grades or involvement in sports have to do with their guilt or innocence?
That really pisses me off!! :x
Quote from: "ghost"
Quote from: "Keeper"
Boys will be boys is a classic example. Girls are taught that while growing up, believe it or not.
The most recent that comes to mind is the Stubbenville rape case from last year where the media sided with the boys, constantly pointing out they were football stars, good boys, got good grades...etc...etc...and attacked the victim for being drunk at a party.
http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/03/18/1732701/media-steubenville/
Here are a few more examples:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2561108/Boys-boys-The-heartless-explanation-lawyer-asked-mother-rape-victim-aged-FIVE-happened-child.html
http://www.marshall.edu/wcenter/sexual-assault/rape-culture/
Is it just me or did the people here loose focus, SOMEONE was raped... I'm embarrassed to be male after reading this.
i dont even know what to say.
Keeper, the thing that has been found in rape cases is that it has almost nothing to do with dress and a lot to do with opportunity.
Again ghost, no excuse and no sympathy for those who change the course of their lives because they've raped someone. Those guys should have given more thought to their futures before they decided to have in consenting sex with someone. However, I don't object to the point being made that they threw away their lives full of promise because they decided to rape a woman. Let that be a lesson to the rest of the fuckers.
Quote from: "Real Woman"
Again ghost, no excuse and no sympathy for those who change the course of their lives because they've raped someone. Those guys should have given more thought to their futures before they decided to have in consenting sex with someone. However, I don't object to the point being made that they threw away their lives full of promise because they decided to rape a woman. Let that be a lesson to the rest of the fuckers.
I object to it. It paints the boys under a sympathetic picture. Makes people actually feel sorry for them for making such a terrible mistake. Oh, the poor boys. They had so much going for them. Who the fuck cares.
They keep constantly pointing out that the girl was drunk. She was drinking. She was passed out. Oh, the poor boys for being unable to resist temptation. The poor boys.
I don't have much to add to this discussion that Real Woman, ghost, Shen Li, Renee or Keeper have not already..
Some very good points made by everyone who has responded.
Quote from: "ghost"
Quote from: "Real Woman"
Again ghost, no excuse and no sympathy for those who change the course of their lives because they've raped someone. Those guys should have given more thought to their futures before they decided to have in consenting sex with someone. However, I don't object to the point being made that they threw away their lives full of promise because they decided to rape a woman. Let that be a lesson to the rest of the fuckers.
I object to it. It paints the boys under a sympathetic picture. Makes people actually feel sorry for them for making such a terrible mistake. Oh, the poor boys. They had so much going for them. Who the fuck cares.
They keep constantly pointing out that the girl was drunk. She was drinking. She was passed out. Oh, the poor boys for being unable to resist temptation. The poor boys.
So we should ignore that committing a heinous sexual act such as rape doesn't have consequences to the futures of those who do it? We shouldn't say "Hey boys, do you really want to throw away what could have been a great future in favour of not keeping it in your pants"? Should we pretend the consequences aren't HUGE by pointing out what they ruined? No one is saying "poor boys". They are saying "look how these assholes fucked up their lives".
I also don't object to the message that says you can't have sex with a woman who is passed out drunk because she cannot give/revoke consent and I really don't object to the message that says bad things can happen to you when you get pissed drunk.
Honestly, for me, this is another one of these issues where candid and productive dialogue is next to impossible and that isn't doing ANYONE any favours.
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "Renee"
Quote from: "ghost"
I was a drunk girl who got raped at a party.
I was 17 and a virgin. Was I being stupid? I was with friends who I thought I trusted. I didn't actually drink that much. I was with female friends, one of which was a designated driver.
Sometimes personal responsibility can only take someone so far. Yes, I've always been careful. Sadly, sometimes careful isn't enough.
I think what bothers me the most is that we constantly talk about women's personal responsibility. What about the male responsibility? Why is it that we teach girls to be careful, constantly point out what sort of things can happen to them if they dress bad, get drunk, etc..etc.. Where's the lessons being taught to the boys not to rape? Instead they get the whole 'boys will be boys' speech.
First let me say I'm very sorry for what happened to you. There is no excuse for how you were violated and I sincerely hope whoever was responsible for the act was punished accordingly.
I agree 100% with your premise regarding how males get a pass on this issue. It shouldn't be all on us but unfortunately this is the culture we live in and until that culture changes, women need to take the proper steps in keeping themselves safe. The other unfortunate part of this is that changing the culture is going to take an almost monumental effort. The "boys will be boys" mindset has been so pervasive for so long that it's an accepted reality in many social circles. As has been already stated, the pop culture of today objectifies and in many cases glorifies the poor treatment of women. Young males at an early age are exposed to the concept that treating women with violence or in an immoral and unacceptable manner is "cool" and an indication of manhood. We are routinely disrespectfully referred to as "bitches" and "hoes" and our worth as human beings is tied directly to our physical appearance and physical attributes. Until that way of thinking is squashed and exposed for the ignorant load of horseshit that it is, women/girls will continue to be victimized by men/boys who think that their bad behavior is acceptable.
Perhaps they know it is very wrong, but they are willing to risk getting caught and arrest?
Much like a thief or some other lawbreaker.
In reality no, I don't think that they actually think their bad behavior is acceptable. BUT I do think that young males can find themselves in situations where they can be spurred on by their peers and encouraged to do things that they normally wouldn't. They can easily develop a predatory opportunistic mentality that allows them to live in the moment without thinking about the consequences of their actions. I do think that for most, once they realize what they have done they either try to rationalize it or they do their best to burry and forget.
I also believe that even in our society today there is a segment of the male population that makes excuses for bad behavior toward women and indeed believes these excuses. Just look at Oddstain and BWD and their misogynistic attitude toward women or certain women and you can see examples of what I speak. Some people may think that they are just forum trolls and that it is all an act but the reality of the outside world says otherwise.
Like I said, a lack of positive male role modelling.
Quote from: "Real Woman"
I also don't object to the message that says you can't have sex with a woman who is passed out drunk because she cannot give/revoke consent and I really don't object to the message that says bad things can happen to you when you get pissed drunk.
Honestly, for me, this is another one of these issues where candid and productive dialogue is next to impossible and that isn't doing ANYONE any favours.
Kind of like any other person(OJ Simpson) that did something really stupid that fucked up their lives?
They highlighted his respectable career that he threw away in a fit of controlling, possessive jealousy. They mentioned how his kids would have neither parent. That's not making excuses IMHO.
Quote from: "Real Woman"
I have no problem with the media writing about a suspect's achievements. Provided of course it has no impact on sentencing if a guilty verdict is reached.
Quote from: "Shen Li"
Quote from: "Real Woman"
I have no problem with the media writing about a suspect's achievements.
[/b]
it didn't...his verdict was 100% a case of jury nullification....he was going to be found not guilty ..NO MATTER WHAT THE EVIDENCE PRESENTED....which in fact is what happened in the end.....caused quite an uproar at the time but like all other things racial in america....it was what it was
Quote from: "Obvious Li"
Quote from: "Shen Li"
Quote from: "Real Woman"
I have no problem with the media writing about a suspect's achievements.
[/b]
it didn't...his verdict was 100% a case of jury nullification....he was going to be found not guilty ..NO MATTER WHAT THE EVIDENCE PRESENTED....which in fact is what happened in the end.....caused quite an uproar at the time but like all other things racial in america....it was what it was
I always thought OJ Simpson was guilty of killing his wife..
He is in jail now though.
He was guilty.
Quote from: "Real Woman"
Not in the eyes of the court system he isn't. Plus, The gloves didn't fit gezzzz :o
Quote from: "Real Woman"
As fucking sin!!
Quote from: "Keeper"
Quote from: "Real Woman"
Not in the eyes of the court system he isn't. Plus, The gloves didn't fit gezzzz :o
OJ Simpson had a good defense team.
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "Keeper"
Quote from: "Real Woman"
Not in the eyes of the court system he isn't. Plus, The gloves didn't fit gezzzz :o
[/b]
OJ Simpson was black, he had a black lawyer, and a black jury who ignored the judges instructions on weighing the evidence and instead chose to make a political statement......the verdict was completely racial and racist and motivated by race.
at the time i was working with a large (very liberal) law firm in Seattle......when the verdict was about to be announced everyone stopped work and met in one of their large conference rooms to watch the announcement....when the not guilty verdict was announced there was visible shock and disbelief in the room...people actually cried about it......but universal disbelief that this could happen in America.....it certainly was no shock to anyone who has witnessed the descent into madness of our society in the last 50 years.... it was entirely predictable.
Well put!!
Quote from: "Obvious Li"
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "Keeper"
Not in the eyes of the court system he isn't. Plus, The gloves didn't fit gezzzz :o
[/b]
OJ Simpson was black, he had a black lawyer, and a black jury who ignored the judges instructions on weighing the evidence and instead chose to make a political statement......
[size=200]YEP![/size]
oops
Quote
True enough. Worse, the decent used to be gradual. The past few years it has taken on a full bore gallop and is way out of any control now... past the point of no return now
Quote from: "cc li tarte"
Quote
True enough. Worse, the decent used to be gradual. The past few years it has taken on a full bore gallop and is way out of any control now... past the point of no return now
Are you speaking of moral decay or something else cc li tarte?
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "cc li tarte"
Quote
True enough. Worse, the decent used to be gradual. The past few years it has taken on a full bore gallop and is way out of any control now... past the point of no return now
Are you speaking of moral decay or something else cc li tarte?
Maybe, but a lot more than just that. We are seeing the problems with so-called democracy. It's all about winning the next election and unfortunately that means pandering to the squeakiest wheel even though they may be selfish assholes that contribute fuck all to society. In fact, all they know is taking.
It also involves turning the other cheek to evil ideologies. Gutless politicians, media and other public figures that are scared to call a spade a spade....ISLAM!!
Quote from: "Shen Li"
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "cc li tarte"
Are you speaking of moral decay or something else cc li tarte?
Maybe, but a lot more than just that. We are seeing the problems with so-called democracy. It's all about winning the next election and unfortunately that means pandering to the squeakiest wheel even though they may be selfish assholes that contribute fuck all to society. In fact, all they know is taking.
It also involves turning the other cheek to evil ideologies. Gutless politicians, media and other public figures that are scared to call a spade a spade....ISLAM!!
there are a long list of reasons from moral and ethical decay to govt. and corporate greed etc etc....but the main culprit is our progressive liberal education system.........it started to promote it's anti establishment, anti white, anti christian, radical feministic, anti family, man hating, lowest common denominator agenda in schools and universities in the 1960's...by the 1980's it was firmly entrenched from top to bottom in our education system.....by now (2014), no one can even remember when common sense was a part of the decision making process in this country......one of the drawbacks to an educational system that refuses to teach history is that younger people never learn, or even hear about, the lessons already learned by past generations....progressives knew they could never sell their ideas and agenda on it's merits...so they used and continue to use threats, bulling and intimidation which coupled with a corrupt justice system, gutless politicians and a complicit liberal media allow a minority of political fascists to control everyone else.......sadly, newer immigrants, which make up a significant percentage of the population, and the last two generation of canadians, will never know the past greatness of this country when it was normal....no rational thinking person can look at what is happening today in any and every sector of our society and not conclude we are past the point of no return.....i feel sorry for my kids as they are in the same boat......the one positive aspect i guess is the old saying....if you don't know what you are missing you don't know you missed it.... :ugeek:
i know i know........i fall for it every time....a trolls dream....... :mrgreen:
Quote from: "Obvious Li"
Huh. I don't recall ever taking that course in school.
Quote from: "cc li tarte"
Quote
True enough. Worse, the decent used to be gradual. The past few years it has taken on a full bore gallop and is way out of any control now... past the point of no return now
It's called the decay of the family structure.
And leave it to you tards to turn the issue of rape into some right wing soap box. Shame on you!
Quote from: "Obvious Li"
Quote from: "Shen Li"
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Are you speaking of moral decay or something else cc li tarte?
Maybe, but a lot more than just that. We are seeing the problems with so-called democracy. It's all about winning the next election and unfortunately that means pandering to the squeakiest wheel even though they may be selfish assholes that contribute fuck all to society. In fact, all they know is taking.
It also involves turning the other cheek to evil ideologies. Gutless politicians, media and other public figures that are scared to call a spade a spade....ISLAM!!
there are a long list of reasons from moral and ethical decay to govt. and corporate greed etc etc....but the main culprit is our progressive liberal education system.........it started to promote it's anti establishment, anti white, anti christian, radical feministic, anti family, man hating, lowest common denominator agenda in schools and universities in the 1960's...by the 1980's it was firmly entrenched from top to bottom in our education system.....by now (2014), no one can even remember when common sense was a part of the decision making process in this country......one of the drawbacks to an educational system that refuses to teach history is that younger people never learn, or even hear about, the lessons already learned by past generations....progressives knew they could never sell their ideas and agenda on it's merits...so they used and continue to use threats, bulling and intimidation which coupled with a corrupt justice system, gutless politicians and a complicit liberal media allow a minority of political fascists to control everyone else.......sadly, newer immigrants, which make up a significant percentage of the population, and the last two generation of canadians, will never know the past greatness of this country when it was normal....no rational thinking person can look at what is happening today in any and every sector of our society and not conclude we are past the point of no return.....i feel sorry for my kids as they are in the same boat......the one positive aspect i guess is the old saying....if you don't know what you are missing you don't know you missed it.... :ugeek:
Same thing is happening in the US. Our colleges and universities have become hideouts for prog propagandists and indoctrinators where they can safely masquerade as so-called educators. As you stated they have figured out a way to spread their lunacy by indoctrinating the empty headed youth of the nation. It used to be that when it came to higher education the bastions of far left nut-jobbery could usually only be found in places Berkley and the Univ of Oregon but now it's rampant all over the country especially in the public colleges. Private colleges and Tech schools are still a mixed bag.
A recent survey indicates that over 70% of college and univ. professors are politically and socially liberal and the number is way up from just 7 years ago where slightly less than half considered themselves liberal. It's a growing and dangerous trend because so many of these liberal/progressive educators don't restrict themselves to the business of education. Many are social and political activists and they openly preach and advocate and push their progressive ideology in the classroom. In extreme cases it isn't totally uncommon to find that conservative students or students who simply disagree with their proffessors are discriminated against or bullied by the faux educational staff.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A8427-2005Mar28.html
Quote from: "Real Woman"
Rape, or "legitimate rape"?
Quote from: "Renee"
Quote from: "Obvious Li"
Quote from: "Shen Li"
Maybe, but a lot more than just that. We are seeing the problems with so-called democracy. It's all about winning the next election and unfortunately that means pandering to the squeakiest wheel even though they may be selfish assholes that contribute fuck all to society. In fact, all they know is taking.
It also involves turning the other cheek to evil ideologies. Gutless politicians, media and other public figures that are scared to call a spade a spade....ISLAM!!
there are a long list of reasons from moral and ethical decay to govt. and corporate greed etc etc....but the main culprit is our progressive liberal education system.........it started to promote it's anti establishment, anti white, anti christian, radical feministic, anti family, man hating, lowest common denominator agenda in schools and universities in the 1960's...by the 1980's it was firmly entrenched from top to bottom in our education system.....by now (2014), no one can even remember when common sense was a part of the decision making process in this country......one of the drawbacks to an educational system that refuses to teach history is that younger people never learn, or even hear about, the lessons already learned by past generations....progressives knew they could never sell their ideas and agenda on it's merits...so they used and continue to use threats, bulling and intimidation which coupled with a corrupt justice system, gutless politicians and a complicit liberal media allow a minority of political fascists to control everyone else.......sadly, newer immigrants, which make up a significant percentage of the population, and the last two generation of canadians, will never know the past greatness of this country when it was normal....no rational thinking person can look at what is happening today in any and every sector of our society and not conclude we are past the point of no return.....i feel sorry for my kids as they are in the same boat......the one positive aspect i guess is the old saying....if you don't know what you are missing you don't know you missed it.... :ugeek:
Same thing is happening in the US. Our colleges and universities have become hideouts for prog propagandists and indoctrinators where they can safely masquerade as so-called educators. As you stated they have figured out a way to spread their lunacy by indoctrinating the empty headed youth of the nation. It used to be that when it came to higher education the bastions of far left nut-jobbery could usually only be found in places Berkley and the Univ of Oregon but now it's rampant all over the country especially in the public colleges. Private colleges and Tech schools are still a mixed bag.
A recent survey indicates that over 70% of college and univ. professors are politically and socially liberal and the number is way up from just 7 years ago where slightly less than half considered themselves liberal. It's a growing and dangerous trend because so many of these liberal/progressive educators don't restrict themselves to the business of education. Many are social and political activists and they openly preach and advocate and push their progressive ideology in the classroom. In extreme cases it isn't totally uncommon to find that conservative students or students who simply disagree with their proffessors are discriminated against or bullied by the faux educational staff.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A8427-2005Mar28.html
wow only 70% ....you folks have a long way to go....in all of Canada there is only one recognized right leaning university....and it is just an obscure, small private school.......it is attacked daily by lawyers from every left wing org. in the country.....they are trying to have it's degree programs de-certified and will eventually succeed.....the rest of the country's higher education bodies are completely and fanatically radical left.....backed by activist courts they have quashed any and all dissent from their program.
Quote from: "Romero"
Quote from: "Real Woman"
Rape, or "legitimate rape"?
now that is the question isn't it homy......... :ugeek:
Quote from: "Romero"
Quote from: "Real Woman"
Rape, or "legitimate rape"?
Is there a difference?
Not to us sane people, but according to the right-wing soap box:
Quote
Speaking to Charles Jaco on the Jaco Report on St. Louis's Fox station, Akin was answering a question about allowing abortions in the case of rape. He said, "If it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down."
//http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0812/79864.html
Sorry, I thought you heard about that one.
Quote from: "Real Woman"
Quote from: "Romero"
Quote from: "Real Woman"
Rape, or "legitimate rape"?
Is there a difference?
nobody knows any more ????......every real or imagined sexual crime, including rape, is called sexual assault these days......so when you hear on the news that someone has been charged with "sexual assault"....it could be rape....it could be you thought someone across the room was looking at you oddly........it could be that you are PMSing and don't like the guy sitting next to you on the bus.....who the fuck knows these days whether it is real and legitimate rape or you just got your itty bitty feelings hurt....every real or perceived female slight is a potential chargeable offense in the modern justice system .......we wouldn't want to use any common sense on this issue either....would we????..... :ugeek:
Quote from: "Obvious Li"
Quote from: "Real Woman"
Quote from: "Romero"
Rape, or "legitimate rape"?
Is there a difference?
nobody knows any more ????......every real or imagined sexual crime, including rape, is called sexual assault these days......so when you hear on the news that someone has been charged with "sexual assault"....it could be rape....it could be you thought someone across the room was looking at you oddly........it could be that you are PMSing and don't like the guy sitting next to you on the bus.....who the fuck knows these days whether it is real and legitimate rape or you just got your itty bitty feelings hurt....every real or perceived female slight is a potential chargeable offense in the modern justice system .......we wouldn't want to use any common sense on this issue either....would we????..... :ugeek:
I think you are blurring the lines between sexual assault and harassment.
Physical contact between the victim and the assailant needs to take place for a sexual assault crime to take place. Now sexual assault can be anything from rape to molestation but physical contact is required no matter what.
Quote from: "Renee"
Same thing is happening in the US. Our colleges and universities have become hideouts for prog propagandists and indoctrinators where they can safely masquerade as so-called educators. As you stated they have figured out a way to spread their lunacy by indoctrinating the empty headed youth of the nation. It used to be that when it came to higher education the bastions of far left nut-jobbery could usually only be found in places Berkley and the Univ of Oregon but now it's rampant all over the country especially in the public colleges. Private colleges and Tech schools are still a mixed bag.
A recent survey indicates that over 70% of college and univ. professors are politically and socially liberal and the number is way up from just 7 years ago where slightly less than half considered themselves liberal. It's a growing and dangerous trend because so many of these liberal/progressive educators don't restrict themselves to the business of education. Many are social and political activists and they openly preach and advocate and push their progressive ideology in the classroom. In extreme cases it isn't totally uncommon to find that conservative students or students who simply disagree with their proffessors are discriminated against or bullied by the faux educational staff.
A fiberal arts degree today is such a waste of fucking money. The profs are wastes of fucking skin!!
Quote from: "Renee"
Quote from: "Obvious Li"
Quote from: "Real Woman"
Is there a difference?
nobody knows any more ????......every real or imagined sexual crime, including rape, is called sexual assault these days......so when you hear on the news that someone has been charged with "sexual assault"....it could be rape....it could be you thought someone across the room was looking at you oddly........it could be that you are PMSing and don't like the guy sitting next to you on the bus.....who the fuck knows these days whether it is real and legitimate rape or you just got your itty bitty feelings hurt....every real or perceived female slight is a potential chargeable offense in the modern justice system .......we wouldn't want to use any common sense on this issue either....would we????..... :ugeek:
I think you are blurring the lines between sexual assault and harassment.
Physical contact between the victim and the assailant needs to take place for a sexual assault crime to take place. Now sexual assault can be anything from rape to molestation but physical contact is required no matter what.
not in a progressive country called Canada...here the complainant merely has to state that she was assaulted and the MALE singled out is presumed guilty....even if innocence is eventually established.....that fuckers life is over...believe me, lawyers in the USA are baffled when they try to practice up here as they are used to a presumption of innocence defense......here, if it is a gender offense the male is ALWAYS guilty of something...it is merely the job of the prosecution to adjust the evidence to fit the charge....:ugeek:
Quote from: "Renee"
Quote from: "Obvious Li"
Quote from: "Real Woman"
Is there a difference?
nobody knows any more ????......every real or imagined sexual crime, including rape, is called sexual assault these days......so when you hear on the news that someone has been charged with "sexual assault"....it could be rape....it could be you thought someone across the room was looking at you oddly........it could be that you are PMSing and don't like the guy sitting next to you on the bus.....who the fuck knows these days whether it is real and legitimate rape or you just got your itty bitty feelings hurt....every real or perceived female slight is a potential chargeable offense in the modern justice system .......we wouldn't want to use any common sense on this issue either....would we????..... :ugeek:
I think you are blurring the lines between sexual assault and harassment.
Physical contact between the victim and the assailant needs to take place for a sexual assault crime to take place. Now sexual assault can be anything from rape to molestation but physical contact is required no matter what.
there are cases in law here where a female complainant stated she `felt`a person was leering at her......said person was charged with sexual assault and discharged from their employment......happens all the time here
Quote from: "Obvious Li"
Quote from: "Renee"
Quote from: "Obvious Li"
nobody knows any more ????......every real or imagined sexual crime, including rape, is called sexual assault these days......so when you hear on the news that someone has been charged with "sexual assault"....it could be rape....it could be you thought someone across the room was looking at you oddly........it could be that you are PMSing and don't like the guy sitting next to you on the bus.....who the fuck knows these days whether it is real and legitimate rape or you just got your itty bitty feelings hurt....every real or perceived female slight is a potential chargeable offense in the modern justice system .......we wouldn't want to use any common sense on this issue either....would we????..... :ugeek:
I think you are blurring the lines between sexual assault and harassment.
Physical contact between the victim and the assailant needs to take place for a sexual assault crime to take place. Now sexual assault can be anything from rape to molestation but physical contact is required no matter what.
there are cases in law here where a female complainant stated she `felt`a person was leering at her......said person was charged with sexual assault and discharged from their employment......happens all the time here
That is terrible if any man loses his job over something like that.
Quote from: "Real Woman"
Quote from: "cc li tarte"
Quote
True enough. Worse, the decent used to be gradual. The past few years it has taken on a full bore gallop and is way out of any control now... past the point of no return now
It's called the decay of the family structure.
That is how I feel too Real Woman..
We have discussed this in my bible studies group how much better the chances of success later in life are for a child that is nurtured in a loving two parent home.
Quote from: "Romero"
Quote
Speaking to Charles Jaco on the Jaco Report on St. Louis's Fox station, Akin was answering a question about allowing abortions in the case of rape. He said, "If it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down."
//http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0812/79864.html
Sorry, I thought you heard about that one.
I had heard about that ridiculousness. I chalked it up to the stupidity it is and don't give it any bearing on the issue.
Quote from: "Real Woman"
Quote from: "Romero"
Quote
Speaking to Charles Jaco on the Jaco Report on St. Louis's Fox station, Akin was answering a question about allowing abortions in the case of rape. He said, "If it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down."
//http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0812/79864.html
Sorry, I thought you heard about that one.
I had heard about that ridiculousness. I chalked it up to the stupidity it is and don't give it any bearing on the issue.
Eggs ackly, just stupidity.
All this talk about harassment reminds me of my grade nine Power Mechanics class. I remember those days fondly as the only female in the class - constantly being called a dyke, comments about the gap between my legs ignoring the spark plugs, suggestions on where a cam shaft could be stuffed, rumours that I performed oral sex on the teacher for my grades. And then when another male in the class took it upon himself to report these things, no one would be my partner, my CO2 race car was destroyed and I spent the half of the year working in a room by myself for my own good of course.
Now I would bet my bottom dollar for every woman you shit on for being comfortable in a work environment, there are a whole bunch who just keep their mouths shut.
Quote from: "Real Woman"
Now I would bet my bottom dollar for every woman
not sure to whom you are referring when you say
I meant you Munday.
Once again, and I will type it slowly so you understand, it...is...the...lack...of...positive...male...
role...modelling...that...is...at...the...heart...of...this...issue. If you want to lay blame, gather up your brethren specifically all the dead beats, women beaters/haters, chauvinists, mysoginists, peepers, sexual conquesters, porn watchers, "studs", etc and give THEM shit for setting bad examples for their boys.
In terms of education, the system has identified the need for further male supports including relationship education. So before you sit there shitting on the education system, learn how it's changing to address these issues.
Quote from: "Real Woman"
Once again, and I will type it slowly so you understand, it...is...the...lack...of...positive...male...
role...modelling...that...is...at...the...heart...of...this...issue. If you want to lay blame, gather up your brethren specifically all the dead beats, women beaters/haters, chauvinists, mysoginists, peepers, sexual conquesters, porn watchers, "studs", etc and give THEM shit for setting bad examples for their boys.
In terms of education, the system has identified the need for further male supports including relationship education. So before you sit there shitting on the education system, learn how it's changing to address these issues.
I agree with some of the things that Obvious Li says about the public education system..
Gangs, bullying, brand name and celebrity worship are among the reasons we would never send our children to the public schools.
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "Real Woman"
Once again, and I will type it slowly so you understand, it...is...the...lack...of...positive...male...
role...modelling...that...is...at...the...heart...of...this...issue. If you want to lay blame, gather up your brethren specifically all the dead beats, women beaters/haters, chauvinists, mysoginists, peepers, sexual conquesters, porn watchers, "studs", etc and give THEM shit for setting bad examples for their boys.
In terms of education, the system has identified the need for further male supports including relationship education. So before you sit there shitting on the education system, learn how it's changing to address these issues.
Gangs, bullying, brand name and celebrity worship are among the reasons we would never send our children to the public schools.
thanks Fash.....as you are already aware, i am always right...you are smart spending the extra to send your kids to private schools.....public schools are a progressive cesspool for the unwashed..... :ugeek:
Quote from: "Obvious Li"
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "Real Woman"
Once again, and I will type it slowly so you understand, it...is...the...lack...of...positive...male...
role...modelling...that...is...at...the...heart...of...this...issue. If you want to lay blame, gather up your brethren specifically all the dead beats, women beaters/haters, chauvinists, mysoginists, peepers, sexual conquesters, porn watchers, "studs", etc and give THEM shit for setting bad examples for their boys.
In terms of education, the system has identified the need for further male supports including relationship education. So before you sit there shitting on the education system, learn how it's changing to address these issues.
Gangs, bullying, brand name and celebrity worship are among the reasons we would never send our children to the public schools.
thanks Fash.....as you are already aware, i am always right...you are smart spending the extra to send your kids to private schools.....public schools are a progressive cesspool for the unwashed..... :ugeek:
Thanks for correcting my error Obvious Li.
;)
Private school education is a worthwhile investment in my children's future.
Quote from: "Real Woman"
role...modelling...that...is...at...the...heart...of...this...issue. If you want to lay blame, gather up your brethren specifically all the
In terms of education, the system has identified the need for further male supports including relationship education. So before you sit there shitting on the education system, learn how it's changing to address these issues.
RW..i appreciate your consideration.......however, for someone so tall i'm never sure how the point completely goes over your head.....why in gods name would we want the educational system that fucked up society and turned males into metro-sexual eunuchs or gang bangers to now begin teaching "relationship education" to them.....the reason we have all those categories of males you listed above is directly related to 40 years of progressive education.......YOU and by this i mean YOU would have been a star pupil in the hitler youth.....YOU like the koolaid so much you just keep drinking more.....now STFU
Quote from: "Obvious Li"
Quote from: "Real Woman"
role...modelling...that...is...at...the...heart...of...this...issue. If you want to lay blame, gather up your brethren specifically all the
In terms of education, the system has identified the need for further male supports including relationship education. So before you sit there shitting on the education system, learn how it's changing to address these issues.
RW..i appreciate your consideration.......however, for someone so tall i'm never sure how the point completely goes over your head.....why in gods name would we want the educational system that fucked up society and turned males into metro-sexual eunuchs or gang bangers to now begin teaching "relationship education" to them.....the reason we have all those categories of males you listed above is directly related to 40 years of progressive education.......YOU and by this i mean YOU would have been a star pupil in the hitler youth.....YOU like the koolaid so much you just keep drinking more.....now STFU
The government can reform the public school system all they want and I will have little faith in it..
In my children's school the parents concerns are taken very seriously..
Parents don't have the same control in the public schools.
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "Obvious Li"
Quote from: "Real Woman"
role...modelling...that...is...at...the...heart...of...this...issue. If you want to lay blame, gather up your brethren specifically all the
In terms of education, the system has identified the need for further male supports including relationship education. So before you sit there shitting on the education system, learn how it's changing to address these issues.
RW..i appreciate your consideration.......however, for someone so tall i'm never sure how the point completely goes over your head.....why in gods name would we want the educational system that fucked up society and turned males into metro-sexual eunuchs or gang bangers to now begin teaching "relationship education" to them.....the reason we have all those categories of males you listed above is directly related to 40 years of progressive education.......YOU and by this i mean YOU would have been a star pupil in the hitler youth.....YOU like the koolaid so much you just keep drinking more.....now STFU
The government can reform the public school system all they want and I will have little faith in it..
In my children's school the parents concerns are taken very seriously..
Parents don't have the same control in the public schools.
parents have zero control in the public schools.....only teachers unions decide what is right and good for your children....no on else counts.... :ugeek:
Parents absolutely have control in public education. In fact, public Ed is REQUIRED to consult on certain issues like policy development, etc. Parent reps are mandated as part of School Planning Councils and have groups like PTAs, etc. Seriously Munday, why do you insist on talking about something you obviousli know sweet fuck all about?
Fash, in my kids' public school, things are taken very seriously as well. The thing with private schools is they don't deal with socio-economic issues in their student base to the same degree. You can do a lot more when you aren't dealing with kids with special needs or kids from poorer backgrounds.
Quote from: "Real Woman"
Fash, in my kids' public school, things are taken very seriously as well. The thing with private schools is they don't deal with socio-economic issues in their student base to the same degree. You can do a lot more when you aren't dealing with kids with special needs or kids from poorer backgrounds.
jesus you are thick.......if you are seriously trying to tell us some immigrant mother or high school drop out has the cohjones to stand up to a militant fanatical organization like the Teachers union at some meeting then you are a twirlybrained fucked in the head spammer nutjob.....furthermore who made the decision that my normal children need to be in class with a bunch of dibbleys and mentally disturbed rejects...school is not a babysitting service..it is meant to be a place of higher learning....i want my taxes to go to teaching my children to the highest standards......not the lowest common denominator set by a class full of autistics...i can tell you who made the decision..it was your progressive sisters and brothers in the teachers union who saw it as a great way to increase members and collect more union dues....fuck the kids lets just collect more dues and fund the NDP.
Oh God you are a tard!
1. Government mandates that all students have the right to access education. That's federal btw and the NDP has never been in power federally. So much for that misplaced blame.
2. Parent Advisory Councils, which is what we have here, don't generally meet with teachers. They generally work with administration. School Planning Councils are head by administration. Policy development, budgeting, etc is done on a school board level. The school board is elected as part of municipal governance.
3. I had dinner with a landed immigrant who ripped a strip off our school board trustees the other night and it's not the first time she's done it. So yeah, why not? I don't know about you, but I work with my teacher to ensure my kids are getting the best possible education. We are not at odds.
4. Classes aren't full of autistics either btw. There is actually a legislated limit to how many kids with learning disabilities can be in class.
Again Munday, it's all good and well to spout off about unions and the NDP, but you have no idea WTF you are talking about. I know this because I do. If you want evidence of this, I ask those who currently have a child in the Canadian education system to raise his/her hand.
*raises hand*
Quote from: "Real Woman"
1. Government mandates that all students have the right to access education. That's federal btw and the NDP has never been in power federally. So much for that misplaced blame.
2. Parent Advisory Councils, which is what we have here, don't generally meet with teachers. They generally work with administration. School Planning Councils are head by administration. Policy development, budgeting, etc is done on a school board level. The school board is elected as part of municipal governance.
3. I had dinner with a landed immigrant who ripped a strip off our school board trustees the other night and it's not the first time she's done it. So yeah, why not? I don't know about you, but I work with my teacher to ensure my kids are getting the best possible education. We are not at odds.
4. Classes aren't full of autistics either btw. There is actually a legislated limit to how many kids with learning disabilities can be in class.
Again Munday, it's all good and well to spout off about unions and the NDP, but you have no idea WTF you are talking about. I know this because I do.
*raises hand*
i am pleased to hear you have kids in the public school system...the way the TFW program is going the fast food and hospitality industries are going to need lots of low skilled entry level bodies......we can thank the public school system in canada for a steady supply to fill the void...... :geek:
Quote from: "Obvious Li"
i am pleased to hear you have kids in the public school system...the way the TFW program is going the fast food and hospitality industries are going to need lots of low skilled entry level bodies......we can thank the public school system in canada for a steady supply to fill the void...... :geek:
[size=200]ROFLMAO!![/size]
Digs about my kids are a lame attempt to hide the fact that you just got your ass handed to you.
Quote from: "Real Woman"
lol..on my worst day....totally distracted...i am soooo beyond your reach........like i said your kids will be welcome to work as a highly skilled food server or in house keeping at any of the local hospitality establishments....nothing personal about your children, who i suspect are little darlings, just giving you a heads up so you won't be disappointed.....truthfully, i am not all that upset with the quality of public school grads....i realized long ago i needed a steady supply of dolts to do the shit jobs at my work sites that no one else would do.....it is getting easier and easier to find them every year...for this i send a big THANK YOU to the local teachers union where ever i have a project ongoing......cheers toots
Quote from: "Real Woman"
I am terribly sorry Real Woman if words were misinterpreted..
I would never insult your lovely children..
There are many reasons why we would never subject my children to the public school system..
Here are a few of them..
1. God's word is taught
2. The school shares our values
3. Safety
4. Academic achievement
5. Teachers love and fear the Lord
6. Individual attention
7. Success after graduation
8. Positive peer pressure
While I respect the reasons you list, Fash, seems to me they ill prepare your children for what they'll encounter outside the classroom walls.
In the "real" world, God's word is not often heard and few there are that love and fear the Lord (certainly not in as open a fashion as can be that of those who mock the Lord). Perhaps a parallel can be made here to Daniel in the lion's den; the mettle of those who fight for their beliefs is tested in the arena, not under a nun's skirts.
Private education can sometimes discourage children from meeting the world as it is--including its uglier and more difficult aspects--earlier rather than later. It mollycoddles them, to some extent.
On the other hand, I have no doubt that teaching and curriculum standards are likely higher in private schools. As to the teaching of values--spiritual or otherwise--ought this not to fall under the purview of parents?
Quote from: "Chickenfeets"
In the "real" world, God's word is not often heard and few there are that love and fear the Lord (certainly not in as open a fashion as can be that of those who mock the Lord). Perhaps a parallel can be made here to Daniel in the lion's den; the mettle of those who fight for their beliefs is tested in the arena, not under a nun's skirts.
Private education can sometimes discourage children from meeting the world as it is--including its uglier and more difficult aspects--earlier rather than later. It mollycoddles them, to some extent.
On the other hand, I have no doubt that teaching and curriculum standards are likely higher in private schools. As to the teaching of values--spiritual or otherwise--ought this not to fall under the purview of parents?
I'm not going to get into the religious shit, but I'm a fan of private schools. You are saying they are not preparing kids for the real world, but I would say the opposite is true. Let's look at the success of people from both a decade after graduation. I'm putting my money on the ones that went to private schools. Nobody is going to pay all that $$ for piss poor results.
BTW, I'm a product of the public school system myself.
EDIT
I just noticed this;
Quote
Fash, you did not insult my kids in the least. I was talking to Munday.
I respect your educational decision and before my kids started, they were slated to go to Catholic school as I did. Then I changed my mind.
Public school does not roll out a bunch of dolts as Munday would have you believe not is it some lawless free for all of immorality as I get the impression you believe. The values taught are similar with a profound difference. Public school is about inclusion where religious schools are about exclusion. It is more important to me to have my children interact with children who aren't exactly like them. It teaches them about diversity and acceptance. And I absolutely will not tolerate my children judging people for being homosexual or from different religious backgrounds. No way.
Chicken, honestly, there isn't a huge difference in curriculum standards between schools. They ultimately all teach to provincial exams and for post secondary entrance. The difference is you generally have kids coming from more affluent backgrounds who have educated parents which is a determining factor in educational success of children. They tend to be populated by kids who do not have learning disabilities or behavioural issues, and they have smaller class sizes. It would be nice if the public school system had that luxury but it doesn't. It can't turn kids away.
Now Munday, I highly doubt the millions of kids who come out if the public school system are all dumbasses who will never amount to more than physical labour. I can call on my private school graduating class and not find a huge pool of success. A few of the girls had children very young out of wedlock because no sexual education was taught. When I think about it, most of us have kids. The guys have oil patch jobs or work in positions I would consider average. One guy is currently in jail doing 11 years for kidnapping and sodomizing a woman with a liquor bottle. So much for religious teachings.
You can say what you want Mun, but the fact is you don't know WTF you are talking about. Reality exists outside your opinion.
(I couldn't post this before.)
Also if you start talking about post secondary, chances are your kid will end up in a "public" school as all the top universities and colleges in Canada tend to be. But yeah, public school is totally fail. Haha
Quote from: "Real Woman"
I respect your educational decision and before my kids started, they were slated to go to Catholic school as I did. Then I changed my mind.
Public school does not roll out a bunch of dolts as Munday would have you believe not is it some lawless free for all of immorality as I get the impression you believe. The values taught are similar with a profound difference. Public school is about inclusion where religious schools are about exclusion. It is more important to me to have my children interact with children who aren't exactly like them. It teaches them about diversity and acceptance. And I absolutely will not tolerate my children judging people for being homosexual or from different religious backgrounds. No way.
Chicken, honestly, there isn't a huge difference in curriculum standards between schools. They ultimately all teach to provincial exams and for post secondary entrance. The difference is you generally have kids coming from more affluent backgrounds who have educated parents which is a determining factor in educational success of children. They tend to be populated by kids who do not have learning disabilities or behavioural issues, and they have smaller class sizes. It would be nice if the public school system had that luxury but it doesn't. It can't turn kids away.
Now Munday, I highly doubt the millions of kids who come out if the public school system are all dumbasses who will never amount to more than physical labour. I can call on my private school graduating class and not find a huge pool of success. A few of the girls had children very young out of wedlock because no sexual education was taught. When I think about it, most of us have kids. The guys have oil patch jobs or work in positions I would consider average. One guy is currently in jail doing 11 years for kidnapping and sodomizing a woman with a liquor bottle. So much for religious teachings.
You can say what you want Mun, but the fact is you don't know WTF you are talking about. Reality exists outside your opinion.
[/b]
no doubt.....it was probably blocked because the computer was gagging...... :ugeek:
No, because the site was down. It's probably being run by someone who went to private school because public school kids only dig ditches and drool on things.
Quote from: "Real Woman"
Except for me. Every now and then those snivel serpent fucktards get something right. ;)
hahahahahahaha
Quote from: "Chickenfeets"
In the "real" world, God's word is not often heard and few there are that love and fear the Lord (certainly not in as open a fashion as can be that of those who mock the Lord). Perhaps a parallel can be made here to Daniel in the lion's den; the mettle of those who fight for their beliefs is tested in the arena, not under a nun's skirts.
Private education can sometimes discourage children from meeting the world as it is--including its uglier and more difficult aspects--earlier rather than later. It mollycoddles them, to some extent.
On the other hand, I have no doubt that teaching and curriculum standards are likely higher in private schools. As to the teaching of values--spiritual or otherwise--ought this not to fall under the purview of parents?
Blurt, the bible commands us to raise our children in the faith..
We are not shielding them from the world, on the contrary we are called to be ambassadors for Christ and be in the world and not of it..
I am a Christian lady posting on secular forums, I work in a secular environment and both my brother and I attend private Christian schools..
So they did prepare us for the real world.
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "Chickenfeets"
In the "real" world, God's word is not often heard and few there are that love and fear the Lord (certainly not in as open a fashion as can be that of those who mock the Lord). Perhaps a parallel can be made here to Daniel in the lion's den; the mettle of those who fight for their beliefs is tested in the arena, not under a nun's skirts.
Private education can sometimes discourage children from meeting the world as it is--including its uglier and more difficult aspects--earlier rather than later. It mollycoddles them, to some extent.
On the other hand, I have no doubt that teaching and curriculum standards are likely higher in private schools. As to the teaching of values--spiritual or otherwise--ought this not to fall under the purview of parents?
Blurt, the bible commands us to raise children in the faith..
We are not shielding them from the world, on the contrary we are called to be ambassadors for Christ and be in the world and not of it..
I am a Christian woman posting on secular forums, I work in a secular environment and both my brother and I attend private Christian schools..
So they did prepare us for the real world.
you are fortunate to have parents who cared......good morning fash.......
Quote from: "Obvious Li"
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "Chickenfeets"
In the "real" world, God's word is not often heard and few there are that love and fear the Lord (certainly not in as open a fashion as can be that of those who mock the Lord). Perhaps a parallel can be made here to Daniel in the lion's den; the mettle of those who fight for their beliefs is tested in the arena, not under a nun's skirts.
Private education can sometimes discourage children from meeting the world as it is--including its uglier and more difficult aspects--earlier rather than later. It mollycoddles them, to some extent.
On the other hand, I have no doubt that teaching and curriculum standards are likely higher in private schools. As to the teaching of values--spiritual or otherwise--ought this not to fall under the purview of parents?
Blurt, the bible commands us to raise children in the faith..
We are not shielding them from the world, on the contrary we are called to be ambassadors for Christ and be in the world and not of it..
I am a Christian woman posting on secular forums, I work in a secular environment and both my brother and I attend private Christian schools..
So they did prepare us for the real world.
you are fortunate to have parents who cared......good morning fash.......
Good morning Obvious Li, I hope the new week is good to you.
:)
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "Obvious Li"
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Blurt, the bible commands us to raise children in the faith..
We are not shielding them from the world, on the contrary we are called to be ambassadors for Christ and be in the world and not of it..
I am a Christian woman posting on secular forums, I work in a secular environment and both my brother and I attend private Christian schools..
So they did prepare us for the real world.
you are fortunate to have parents who cared......good morning fash.......
Good morning Obvious Li, I hope the new week is good to you.
:)
i can`t believe it...woke up this morning to a winter wonderland again....when will this nonsense end.....go global warming please........any way will go to the city today and take mother for lunch.....the old bat needs to get out and get some fresh air......she`s paying though so WTH... :mrgreen:
Quote from: "Obvious Li"
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "Obvious Li"
you are fortunate to have parents who cared......good morning fash.......
Good morning Obvious Li, I hope the new week is good to you.
:)
i can`t believe it...woke up this morning to a winter wonderland again....when will this nonsense end.....go global warming please........any way will go to the city today and take mother for lunch.....the old bat needs to get out and get some fresh air......she`s paying though so WTH... :mrgreen:
That is nice Obvious Li..
I hope you have a nice time.
:)
Quote from: "Obvious Li"
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "Obvious Li"
you are fortunate to have parents who cared......good morning fash.......
Good morning Obvious Li, I hope the new week is good to you.
:)
i can`t believe it...woke up this morning to a winter wonderland again....when will this nonsense end.....go global warming please........any way will go to the city today and take mother for lunch.....the old bat needs to get out and get some fresh air......she`s paying though so WTH... :mrgreen:
What are Mommy's for if not picking up the tab. ;)
Quote from: "Shen Li"
Quote from: "Obvious Li"
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Good morning Obvious Li, I hope the new week is good to you.
:)
i can`t believe it...woke up this morning to a winter wonderland again....when will this nonsense end.....go global warming please........any way will go to the city today and take mother for lunch.....the old bat needs to get out and get some fresh air......she`s paying though so WTH... :mrgreen:
What are Mommy's for if not picking up the tab. ;)
Doing your laundry.