"In a Closed System, Stupidity Tends to Increase Until It Reaches a Maximum"
April 30, 2014
In something called
After running on about the superior social skills of girls (meaning that they are docile, obedient, easily managed, and seek approval from teachers), the author, David Leonhardt, points out that girls are getting far more four-year college degrees, etc. All true.
What he does not point out is that schools at all levels have been made (deliberately, I think) so hostile to males (the endless sexual-harassment propaganda), with so heavy an emphasis on procedure instead of material mastered (neat homework, pretty pictures pasted into projects), and so much emphasis on socialization to feminine norms and on inculcation of Appropriate Values, that boys are asphyxiated.
There is in all of this much schadenfreude from women who enjoy seeing boys fail, and a great deal of passive aggression: "Bobby, we are making your life miserable and doing our best to turn you into an involuntary lesbian for your own good. Now keep quiet, take your Ritalin, and don't move an inch, you little bastard."
A thread running through it all is the notion that boys are just, well, to put it frankly, not very smart, good perhaps for carrying heavy objects but not suited to a modern world founded on intelligence. A couple of quotes catch this:
"As the economy continues to shift away from brawn and toward brains, many men have struggled with the transition." And "'Boys are getting the wrong message about what you need to do to be successful,' Ms. Buchmann says. 'Traditional gender roles are misguiding boys. In today's economy, being tough and being strong are not what leads to success.'"
Women of feminist stripe have always resented the physical strength of men and have argued that either it doesn't really exist or that it doesn't matter (women in the infantry), and that anyway women are more intelligent if not held back by oppressive etc. It may well be true that women are more suited to a bureaucratic society in which order, procedure, following rules, and placidity are paramount. However, in the matter of brains and their importance for the economy, it is interesting to check the facts.
Boys are not less intelligent than girls. In post-pubertal IQ, males have only a small advantage in mean IQ, perhaps because of their slightly larger brains or perhaps because it is an artifact of testing. What is not debatable is that men have higher variance in intelligence, meaning a broader range of scores—i.e., there are more very smart men than women, and very stupid men than women. The math predicts that at two standard deviations from the mean, IQ 130, there should be two men per woman. Checking Mensa membership by sex (Mensa requiring 130 for membership, the top two percent) we find—who would have guessed it—that the membership is 66% male. Two to one.
The two lowest-scoring careers are education, overwhelmingly female, and public administration. Thus we have morons, administered by slightly worse morons, trying to teach boys who, at the high end, are so much smarter than the teachers as to constitute another species.
I suspect that the psychologists, ed majors, therapists and suchlike clutter who hold forth on schooling on boys simply have no idea of what high intelligence is or why it matters. In the foregoing I mentioned standard deviation:
sigma = sqrt{frac{1}{N} sum_{i=1}^N (x_i - mu)^2}, {rm where } mu = frac{1}{N} sum_{i=1}^N x_i.
For the little boy who one day will pop 710 on the math GREs, such things are neither frightening nor off-putting. They are fascinating. Such kids could certainly grasp the notation above while taking eighth-grade algebra. From these boys—they are almost always boys—come the things that make for international competiveness. We would be very wise to keep this in mind. We will not.
Boys flourish, as do men, when they are allowed to compete, preferably in the company of other males, in fields of their choosing, without strangling social rules. Silicon Valley is the wild west of such endeavor. Consider the following start-ups, and who started them:
Google (Sergei Bryn, Larry Page), Intel (Gordon Moore, Robert Noyce), Apple (Steve Jobs, Steve Wozniak), Microsoft (Bill Gates), Dell Computer (Michael Dell), Facebook (Mark Zuckerberg), YouTube (Chad Hurley, Steve Chen, Jawed Karim), Netscape (Mark Andreesen), Yahoo (Jerry Yang, David Filo), AMD (long list of guys from Fairchild Semiconductor), Twitter (Jack Dorsey), Wikipedia (Jimmy Wales, Larry Sanger), PayPal (Peter Thiel), Ebay (Pierre Omidyar). Et very cetera.
Forgive me for laboring the point, but I think it important for the country's future to understand who we need to encourage. Who invented the following?
Euclidean geometry. Parabolic geometry. Hyperbolic geometry. Projective geometry. Differential geometry. Algebra. Limits, continuity, differentiation, integration. Physical chemistry. Organic chemistry. Biochemistry. Classical mechanics. The indeterminacy principle. The wave equation. The Parthenon. The Anabasis. Air conditioning. Number theory. Romanesque architecture. Gothic architecture. Information theory. Entropy. Enthalpy. Almost every symphony ever written. Pierre Auguste Renoir. The twelve-tone scale. The mathematics behind it, twelfth root of two and all that. S-p hybrid bonding orbitals. The Bohr-Sommerfeld atom. The purine-pyrimidine structure of the DNA ladder. Single-sideband radio. All other radio. Dentistry. The internal-combustion engine. Turbojets. Turbofans. Doppler beam-sharpening. Penicillin. Airplanes. Surgery. The mammogram. The Pill. The condom. Polio vaccine. The integrated circuit. The computer. Football. Computational fluid dynamics. Tensors. The Constitution. Euripides, Sophocles, Aristophanes, Aeschylus, Homer, Hesiod. Glass. Rubber. Nylon. Roads. Buildings. Elvis. Acetylcholinesterase inhibitors. (OK, those are nerve agents, and maybe we didn't really need them.) Silicone. The automobile. Really weird stuff, like clathrates, Buckyballs, and rotaxanes. The Bible. Bug spray. Diffie-Hellman, public-key cryptography, and RSA. Et cetera.
Enough. Leonhardt ends on a note of almost kinky submissiveness:
"The problem doesn't simply involve men trying to overcome the demise of a local factory or teenage boys getting into trouble. It involves children so young that most haven't even learned the word "gender." Yet their gender is already starting to cast a long shadow over their lives."
Just so. But it is not their own gender casting the shadow.
Okay, so the male author says that women are "smug, condescending, tail-wagging, hostile, propagandizing their sexual harassment, intellectual torturers, placid, less smart, morons, and panderers". And apparently they're no good at business and invention.
Calling women all these horrible things is somehow supposed to be evidence that women treat males poorly.
I've rarely seen anything so ugly and hateful towards women. How easy it is for some men to forget that women are our mothers, sisters, daughters, spouses, family, friends, coworkers, teachers and caregivers.
Meanwhile, back in Reality Land:
Quote
Facing mounting pressure from lawmakers, sexual assault survivors and activists, the U.S. Department of Education on Thursday released for the first time a comprehensive list of colleges and universities under Title IX investigation.
Survivors applauded the move but want to ensure the department is still taking steps to protect the anonymity of survivors so they don't face retaliation on campus by peers or administrators.
//http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/01/college-sexual-assault_n_5247267.html
Sexual harassment and assault are rampant among our colleges and universities. Insisting that women should not be sexually harassed and assaulted is not "propaganda".
Quote from: "Romero"
Calling women all these horrible things is somehow supposed to be evidence that women treat males poorly.
I've rarely seen anything so ugly and hateful towards women. How easy it is for some men to forget that women are our mothers, sisters, daughters, spouses, family, friends, coworkers, teachers and caregivers.
ya tha'ts what it's all about......you are welcome to make up your list of successful business women and female inventors......that's not his point.... the point being, you can try and force gender neutralization all you want...it will not ever and cannot ever, work...all you will get is a bunch of males requiring drugs to ungender them to the states satisfaction.....it's time we went back to letting boys be boys, learning the way boys have always learned and maybe we will end up getting men acting like men again ........just saying homy
Quote from: "Romero"
Quote
Facing mounting pressure from lawmakers, sexual assault survivors and activists, the U.S. Department of Education on Thursday released for the first time a comprehensive list of colleges and universities under Title IX investigation.
Survivors applauded the move but want to ensure the department is still taking steps to protect the anonymity of survivors so they don't face retaliation on campus by peers or administrators.
//http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/01/college-sexual-assault_n_5247267.html
Sexual harassment and assault are rampant among our colleges and universities. Insisting that women should not be sexually harassed and assaulted is not "propaganda".
i like how the modern progressive vernacular states that these women, who may have had someone look at them funny or pinch their ass are known as "survivors"...fuck my mother and any other women from past generations would laugh their heads off at such silliness.....survivor they would say..you want to talk about surviving shit.....let me tell you....lol the world is completely fucked up.
Your head is buried in the sand. The vast majority of sexual harassment and assaults are a lot more than just ogling and ass pinching.
1 out of every 5 women will be raped in their lifetime. That's not propaganda, that's a fact.
Why oh why can't I just stay away?
Typical Romero. You've turned a case for the failings of the education system for boys into an issue of offense to women, sexual assault and rape. Thank you for once again proving the point regarding the stifling of socially relevant conversation with bullshit PCism.
Munday, there is no doubt in my mind that school doesn't work for boys. As stated in the article, it panders to the types who can sit still and listen for hours on end, which generally translates to girls. The same model applies to colleges and universities for the most part.
Boys tend to be more hands on. They learn better by building, inventing, dissecting, troubleshooting, repairing, etc. There is a real push in the education sector for reform that creates a learning environment where boys can excel. They have seen successes in gender segregated classes in terms of male learning but have found it creates socialization issues when it comes to the opposite sex. We are a ways off a working solution but at least it's being viewed as an issue worth serious investigation.
Quote from: "Real Woman"
Typical Romero. You've turned a case for the failings of the education system for boys into an issue of offense to women, sexual assault and rape. Thank you for once again proving the point regarding the stifling of socially relevant conversation with bullshit PCism.
Munday, there is no doubt in my mind that school doesn't work for boys. As stated in the article, it panders to the types who can sit still and listen for hours on end, which generally translates to girls. The same model applies to colleges and universities for the most part.
Boys tend to be more hands on. They learn better by building, inventing, dissecting, troubleshooting, repairing, etc. There is a real push in the education sector for reform that creates a learning environment where boys can excel. They have seen successes in gender segregated classes in terms of male learning but have found it creates socialization issues when it comes to the opposite sex. We are a ways off a working solution but at least it's being viewed as an issue worth serious investigation.
Fuck RW, every now and again you REALLY surprise me. A well balanced post that anyone without an agenda cannot find fault with. GOOD STUFF!!
Quote from: "Obvious Li"
Euclidean geometry. Parabolic geometry. Hyperbolic geometry. Projective geometry. Differential geometry. Algebra. Limits, continuity, differentiation, integration. Physical chemistry. Organic chemistry. Biochemistry. Classical mechanics. The indeterminacy principle. The wave equation. The Parthenon. The Anabasis. Air conditioning. Number theory. Romanesque architecture. Gothic architecture. Information theory. Entropy. Enthalpy. Almost every symphony ever written. Pierre Auguste Renoir. The twelve-tone scale. The mathematics behind it, twelfth root of two and all that. S-p hybrid bonding orbitals. The Bohr-Sommerfeld atom. The purine-pyrimidine structure of the DNA ladder. Single-sideband radio. All other radio. Dentistry. The internal-combustion engine. Turbojets. Turbofans. Doppler beam-sharpening. Penicillin. Airplanes. Surgery. The mammogram. The Pill. The condom. Polio vaccine. The integrated circuit. The computer. Football. Computational fluid dynamics. Tensors. The Constitution. Euripides, Sophocles, Aristophanes, Aeschylus, Homer, Hesiod. Glass. Rubber. Nylon. Roads. Buildings. Elvis. Acetylcholinesterase inhibitors. (OK, those are nerve agents, and maybe we didn't really need them.) Silicone. The automobile. Really weird stuff, like clathrates, Buckyballs, and rotaxanes. The Bible. Bug spray. Diffie-Hellman, public-key cryptography, and RSA. Et cetera.
He forgot nuclear weaponry.
Seems to me a few well-detonated hydrogen bombs will make short work of anything on the list.
That's got to count for something, no?
Yes, yes, boys will be boys, I understand.
Quote from: "Shen Li"
Quote from: "Real Woman"
Typical Romero. You've turned a case for the failings of the education system for boys into an issue of offense to women, sexual assault and rape. Thank you for once again proving the point regarding the stifling of socially relevant conversation with bullshit PCism.
Munday, there is no doubt in my mind that school doesn't work for boys. As stated in the article, it panders to the types who can sit still and listen for hours on end, which generally translates to girls. The same model applies to colleges and universities for the most part.
Boys tend to be more hands on. They learn better by building, inventing, dissecting, troubleshooting, repairing, etc. There is a real push in the education sector for reform that creates a learning environment where boys can excel. They have seen successes in gender segregated classes in terms of male learning but have found it creates socialization issues when it comes to the opposite sex. We are a ways off a working solution but at least it's being viewed as an issue worth serious investigation.
[/b]
i know.....isn't she just the cutest thing.....and no she is not allowed to stay away...and furthermore WHY would she want to stay away from us.....we are her people...... :ugeek:
Quote from: "Chickenfeets"
Quote from: "Obvious Li"
Euclidean geometry. Parabolic geometry. Hyperbolic geometry. Projective geometry. Differential geometry. Algebra. Limits, continuity, differentiation, integration. Physical chemistry. Organic chemistry. Biochemistry. Classical mechanics. The indeterminacy principle. The wave equation. The Parthenon. The Anabasis. Air conditioning. Number theory. Romanesque architecture. Gothic architecture. Information theory. Entropy. Enthalpy. Almost every symphony ever written. Pierre Auguste Renoir. The twelve-tone scale. The mathematics behind it, twelfth root of two and all that. S-p hybrid bonding orbitals. The Bohr-Sommerfeld atom. The purine-pyrimidine structure of the DNA ladder. Single-sideband radio. All other radio. Dentistry. The internal-combustion engine. Turbojets. Turbofans. Doppler beam-sharpening. Penicillin. Airplanes. Surgery. The mammogram. The Pill. The condom. Polio vaccine. The integrated circuit. The computer. Football. Computational fluid dynamics. Tensors. The Constitution. Euripides, Sophocles, Aristophanes, Aeschylus, Homer, Hesiod. Glass. Rubber. Nylon. Roads. Buildings. Elvis. Acetylcholinesterase inhibitors. (OK, those are nerve agents, and maybe we didn't really need them.) Silicone. The automobile. Really weird stuff, like clathrates, Buckyballs, and rotaxanes. The Bible. Bug spray. Diffie-Hellman, public-key cryptography, and RSA. Et cetera.
He forgot nuclear weaponry.
Seems to me a few well-detonated hydrogen bombs will make short work of anything on the list.
That's got to count for something, no?
Yes, yes, boys will be boys, I understand.
now CF...you know deep down you agree with the point the writer is trying to make...by allowing boys to act like boys maybe, just maybe we can turn them into men...instead of Homero clones....and then maybe just maybe they can resume their place in the family structure, which has been sadly lacking for 40 years...you see we know there is a problem we know why and what needs to be done...why are we allowing the basic fabric of society to be torn apart on the altar of a political agenda....what a waste....the price is too high..... :ugeek:
Quote from: "Chickenfeets"
Quote from: "Obvious Li"
Euclidean geometry. Parabolic geometry. Hyperbolic geometry. Projective geometry. Differential geometry. Algebra. Limits, continuity, differentiation, integration. Physical chemistry. Organic chemistry. Biochemistry. Classical mechanics. The indeterminacy principle. The wave equation. The Parthenon. The Anabasis. Air conditioning. Number theory. Romanesque architecture. Gothic architecture. Information theory. Entropy. Enthalpy. Almost every symphony ever written. Pierre Auguste Renoir. The twelve-tone scale. The mathematics behind it, twelfth root of two and all that. S-p hybrid bonding orbitals. The Bohr-Sommerfeld atom. The purine-pyrimidine structure of the DNA ladder. Single-sideband radio. All other radio. Dentistry. The internal-combustion engine. Turbojets. Turbofans. Doppler beam-sharpening. Penicillin. Airplanes. Surgery. The mammogram. The Pill. The condom. Polio vaccine. The integrated circuit. The computer. Football. Computational fluid dynamics. Tensors. The Constitution. Euripides, Sophocles, Aristophanes, Aeschylus, Homer, Hesiod. Glass. Rubber. Nylon. Roads. Buildings. Elvis. Acetylcholinesterase inhibitors. (OK, those are nerve agents, and maybe we didn't really need them.) Silicone. The automobile. Really weird stuff, like clathrates, Buckyballs, and rotaxanes. The Bible. Bug spray. Diffie-Hellman, public-key cryptography, and RSA. Et cetera.
He forgot nuclear weaponry.
Seems to me a few well-detonated hydrogen bombs will make short work of anything on the list.
That's got to count for something, no?
Yes, yes, boys will be boys, I understand.
Are you saying brilliant minds should NOT have learned to harness nuclear energy? No hydrogen filled balloons? The Hubble Space Telescope is also powered by nickel-hydrogen batteries? What were these brawny, but brainless men thinking? They should have invented Spanx instead. :roll:
Shen darling, whilst you pigeon hole me a brainless leftie, I have always have formed my positions on an issue by issue basis. I am rather intimately involved with education as I have taken a very active role in the school life of my two children, one who happens to be a boy. I've watched my bright little peanut struggle in an education system that does not meet his learning needs. I've talked to many other parents who see their boys face the same challenges. I've been to seminars, lectures and dialogues about this very issue.
Gender equality isn't always about treating everyone the same. It's about affording genders the same opportunities by creating constructs that work on both gender levels as a means of success. We cannot pretend that what works for the goose also works for the gander or vice versa.
I also can't pretend I'm not sick to death of having anything that addresses male issues or promotion as being seen as sexist or viewed as some attack on women.
Quote from: "Real Woman"
I also can't pretend I'm not sick to death of having anything that addresses male issues or promotion as being seen as sexist or viewed as some attack on women.
I agree with this statement very much..
Some of my girlfriends that have their boys in the public school have told me the same thing.
Quote from: "Shen Li"
Of course not, Shen.
It's just that, over and against the type of puerile chest-beating and suspender-snapping displays such as the one I quoted in my post, I do not believe brilliant minds are brilliant because they're the products of male brains. Brilliance has no gender.
But, as OL has (rightly) pointed out, this is not the issue.
On the issue itself, I'm undecided because (and just because) I don't know enough about it. I don't have any children myself so, other than articles I read here and there, I have no real clue what goes on in K-12 classrooms these days. Yes, I'm aware--hard
But dear OL and I differ on this point mainly; that the way boys (and girls)
Quote from: "Real Woman"
Typical Romero. You've turned a case for the failings of the education system for boys into an issue of offense to women, sexual assault and rape. Thank you for once again proving the point regarding the stifling of socially relevant conversation with bullshit PCism.
Munday, there is no doubt in my mind that school doesn't work for boys. As stated in the article, it panders to the types who can sit still and listen for hours on end, which generally translates to girls. The same model applies to colleges and universities for the most part.
Boys tend to be more hands on. They learn better by building, inventing, dissecting, troubleshooting, repairing, etc. There is a real push in the education sector for reform that creates a learning environment where boys can excel. They have seen successes in gender segregated classes in terms of male learning but have found it creates socialization issues when it comes to the opposite sex. We are a ways off a working solution but at least it's being viewed as an issue worth serious investigation.
If I'm the one who's supposed to be so politically correct, why are you the one who's so offended by my simply having an opinion?
I don't believe women are "smug, condescending, tail-wagging, hostile, propagandizing their sexual harassment, intellectual torturers, placid, less smart, morons and panderers". I don't believe sexual harassment and assault is "propaganda".
If you want to believe that, go right ahead.
Quote from: "Romero"
Quote from: "Real Woman"
Typical Romero. You've turned a case for the failings of the education system for boys into an issue of offense to women, sexual assault and rape. Thank you for once again proving the point regarding the stifling of socially relevant conversation with bullshit PCism.
Munday, there is no doubt in my mind that school doesn't work for boys. As stated in the article, it panders to the types who can sit still and listen for hours on end, which generally translates to girls. The same model applies to colleges and universities for the most part.
Boys tend to be more hands on. They learn better by building, inventing, dissecting, troubleshooting, repairing, etc. There is a real push in the education sector for reform that creates a learning environment where boys can excel. They have seen successes in gender segregated classes in terms of male learning but have found it creates socialization issues when it comes to the opposite sex. We are a ways off a working solution but at least it's being viewed as an issue worth serious investigation.
If I'm the one who's supposed to be so politically correct, why are you the one who's so offended by my simply having an opinion?
I don't believe women are "smug, condescending, tail-wagging, hostile, propagandizing their sexual harassment, intellectual torturers, placid, less smart, morons and panderers". I don't believe sexual harassment and assault is "propaganda".
If you want to believe that, go right ahead.
I am lost; I thought this thread was about the public educational system failing little boys?
:?
Quote from: "Chickenfeets"
Quote from: "Shen Li"
Of course not, Shen.
It's just that, over and against the type of puerile chest-beating and suspender-snapping displays such as the one I quoted in my post, I do not believe brilliant minds are brilliant because they're the products of male brains. Brilliance has no gender.
But, as OL has (rightly) pointed out, this is not the issue.
On the issue itself, I'm undecided because (and just because) I don't know enough about it. I don't have any children myself so, other than articles I read here and there, I have no real clue what goes on in K-12 classrooms these days. Yes, I'm aware--hard
[/b]
we may not be that far apart at all CF.....i am merely saying that what we have now is not producing results that has or will benefit society.....so in the absence of a credible alternative i will take the default position of reverting to the good old days...at least we know the system was time tested and produced stability...not for all but by and large it worked......who knows maybe our best days are in front of us.....but what we are producing now will not get us there........the relationship between males and females is a fragile construct...there are rules that nature applies...when we tinker with these universal truths we fuck it up....just like everything else the busybodies touch.
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "Romero"
Quote from: "Real Woman"
Typical Romero. You've turned a case for the failings of the education system for boys into an issue of offense to women, sexual assault and rape. Thank you for once again proving the point regarding the stifling of socially relevant conversation with bullshit PCism.
Munday, there is no doubt in my mind that school doesn't work for boys. As stated in the article, it panders to the types who can sit still and listen for hours on end, which generally translates to girls. The same model applies to colleges and universities for the most part.
Boys tend to be more hands on. They learn better by building, inventing, dissecting, troubleshooting, repairing, etc. There is a real push in the education sector for reform that creates a learning environment where boys can excel. They have seen successes in gender segregated classes in terms of male learning but have found it creates socialization issues when it comes to the opposite sex. We are a ways off a working solution but at least it's being viewed as an issue worth serious investigation.
If I'm the one who's supposed to be so politically correct, why are you the one who's so offended by my simply having an opinion?
I don't believe women are "smug, condescending, tail-wagging, hostile, propagandizing their sexual harassment, intellectual torturers, placid, less smart, morons and panderers". I don't believe sexual harassment and assault is "propaganda".
If you want to believe that, go right ahead.
I am lost; I thought this thread was about the public educational system failing little boys?
:?
it is Fash...we're pretty much on track...homero wanders around the subject like a homeless Jew.....but the rest of us get the jist.....RW pretty much wrote the defining post and even CF is playing nice.....now once we hear from Renee i will be confident we have the real lowdown on the system..i think she has boys in school as well......
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "Romero"
Quote from: "Real Woman"
Typical Romero. You've turned a case for the failings of the education system for boys into an issue of offense to women, sexual assault and rape. Thank you for once again proving the point regarding the stifling of socially relevant conversation with bullshit PCism.
Munday, there is no doubt in my mind that school doesn't work for boys. As stated in the article, it panders to the types who can sit still and listen for hours on end, which generally translates to girls. The same model applies to colleges and universities for the most part.
Boys tend to be more hands on. They learn better by building, inventing, dissecting, troubleshooting, repairing, etc. There is a real push in the education sector for reform that creates a learning environment where boys can excel. They have seen successes in gender segregated classes in terms of male learning but have found it creates socialization issues when it comes to the opposite sex. We are a ways off a working solution but at least it's being viewed as an issue worth serious investigation.
If I'm the one who's supposed to be so politically correct, why are you the one who's so offended by my simply having an opinion?
I don't believe women are "smug, condescending, tail-wagging, hostile, propagandizing their sexual harassment, intellectual torturers, placid, less smart, morons and panderers". I don't believe sexual harassment and assault is "propaganda".
If you want to believe that, go right ahead.
I am lost; I thought this thread was about the public educational system failing little boys?
:?
The article is supposed to be, but it's really not.
It calls female teachers "tail-wagging unmen" who "enjoy seeing boys fail" and want to turn them into "involuntary lesbians".
Then it goes on and on about how women are less smart, don't start businesses, and don't invent anything.
It's a hate piece against women.
Quote from: "Romero"
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "Romero"
If I'm the one who's supposed to be so politically correct, why are you the one who's so offended by my simply having an opinion?
I don't believe women are "smug, condescending, tail-wagging, hostile, propagandizing their sexual harassment, intellectual torturers, placid, less smart, morons and panderers". I don't believe sexual harassment and assault is "propaganda".
If you want to believe that, go right ahead.
I am lost; I thought this thread was about the public educational system failing little boys?
:?
The article is supposed to be, but it's really not.
It calls female teachers "tail-wagging unmen" who "enjoy seeing boys fail" and want to turn them into "involuntary lesbians".
Then it goes on and on about how women are less smart, don't start businesses, and don't invent anything.
It's a hate piece against women.
I read it very differently than you did Romero..
It was a reminder that my son is not less intelligent than my daughter..
Given the right conditions he is very capable of academic achievement..
There was not hate in it, just a reminder that the public school system is not serving the different educational needs of little boys.
Quote from: "Romero"
I don't believe women are "smug, condescending, tail-wagging, hostile, propagandizing their sexual harassment, intellectual torturers, placid, less smart, morons and panderers". I don't believe sexual harassment and assault is "propaganda".
If you want to believe that, go right ahead.
Please spare me the "I have a right to an opinion" crap. We all know you have a right to say whatever you want on the subject, just as I have the right to say your PC opinions do NOTHING to solve the problem at hand. You would rather sit there making this some attack on women than what it really is - a failure of the education system to foster the success of boys.
The author didn't say women were "smug, condescending, tail-wagging, hostile, propagandizing their sexual harassment, intellectual torturers, placid, less smart, morons and panderers". His comments are directed mostly towards feminISM and those who push that agenda aka feminists.
The comment about sexual harassment being propaganda is in regards to the vilification of boys. "So many women are going to be sexually harassed or assaulted by men" is a message that rings loudly from the halls of even high schools. It paints men as being untrustworthy pigs and has every woman keeping one watchful eye on the whole lot. That is what the article writer was referring to.
Now Romero, let's get a few things clear here. I am a woman. I have fought many battles to be able to do "guy" things, including facing sexual harassment in my quest to do so. I have sat in Women's Studies classes and watched the feminist chest beating against oppression and repression. I know how it all works. I don't need your help telling me what should and shouldn't offend me as a woman.
On top of being a woman, I am also the mother of two kids of opposing genders in the public school system. I don't have the luxury of denying reality in favour of feigning insult on my gender. I see what goes on in our public schools and I have a responsibility to make sure BOTH my children are successful in their education. So you go ahead and rant on about how insulting literary license in the article is, and I will continue stating what is true - school is fail for boys.
Fash, I agree with your points but do you think the private school model is much different?
Quote from: "Real Woman"
That's a good question Real Woman?
Neither my brother nor I have ever attended public schools and I have followed the tradition with my own children..
I can only tell you what my girlfriends who have boys in the public school system have told me..
I do know we use tried and true methods at my children's school and we have results that would seem to say it is successful..
Both my husband and I are satisfied that it is a worthy investment.
I'm not sure the structure or delivery is all that much different Fash.
Quote from: "Real Woman"
That could be Real Woman, I have had no exposure to the public school system.
When I was in the private system, it was very similar but that was ages ago.
Quote from: "Fashionista"
It was a reminder that my son is not less intelligent than my daughter..
Given the right conditions he is very capable of academic achievement..
There was not hate in it, just a reminder that the public school system is not serving the different educational needs of little boys.
There's a lot of hate in it. Look at how it calls women "smug, condescending, tail-wagging, intellectual torturers, placid, morons, and panderers".
It claims that being against sexual harassment is "propaganda". It claims that women are less intelligent than males, and lousy at business and invention.
Those insults towards women have nothing to do with education.
Female teachers have never claimed boys are less intelligent and less capable of academic achievement.
"Bobby, we are making your life miserable and doing our best to turn you into an involuntary lesbian for your own good. Now keep quiet, take your Ritalin, and don't move an inch, you little bastard."
What a terrible thing to say about women and our teachers. It's not true. Those are the author's words and that's exactly what he believes about women.
Quote from: "Romero"
Quote from: "Fashionista"
It was a reminder that my son is not less intelligent than my daughter..
Given the right conditions he is very capable of academic achievement..
There was not hate in it, just a reminder that the public school system is not serving the different educational needs of little boys.
There's a lot of hate in it. Look at how it calls women "smug, condescending, tail-wagging, intellectual torturers, placid, morons, and panderers".
It claims that being against sexual harassment is "propaganda". It claims that women are less intelligent than males, and lousy at business and invention.
Those insults towards women have nothing to do with education.
Female teachers have never claimed boys are less intelligent and less capable of academic achievement.
"Bobby, we are making your life miserable and doing our best to turn you into an involuntary lesbian for your own good. Now keep quiet, take your Ritalin, and don't move an inch, you little bastard."
What a terrible thing to say about women and our teachers. It's not true. Those are the author's words and that's exactly what he believes about women.
I am a lady and I read it the same way as another lady who wrote this.
I was not offended at all about the article, but like Real Woman I too have children of both genders and it is my duty to ensure both my children are successful in their education.
Quote from: "Real Woman"
All women are feminists, and he does mention all women specifically.
"There are more very smart men than women"
"Mensa membership is 66% male"
"The eight highest-scoring fields are all dominated by men"
"The two lowest-scoring careers are education, overwhelmingly female, and public administration. Thus we have morons, administered by slightly worse morons, trying to teach boys"
Do you agree with him that female educators and public administrators are overwhelmingly morons?
Quote from: "Real Woman"
Isn't that just your "propaganda"?
Quote from: "Romero"
Quote from: "Real Woman"
All women are feminists, and he does mention all women specifically.
"there are more very smart men than women"
"Mensa membership is 66% male"
"The eight highest-scoring fields are all dominated by men"
"The two lowest-scoring careers are education, overwhelmingly female, and public administration. Thus we have morons, administered by slightly worse morons, trying to teach boys"
Do you agree with him that female educators and public administrators are overwhelmingly morons?
Men start out as little boys like my son and I am glad the author reminds them they are very intelligent..
They can excel if given the right conditions for learning.
They are. Boys are taught well at schools. Female teachers do not "enjoy seeing boys fail" and they are not "intellectually water-boarding" them.
The author is claiming that all these women hate boys and men and it's just not true.
He has plenty of bad things to say about women though.
Quote from: "Romero"
The author is claiming that all these women hate boys and men and it's just not true.
He has plenty of bad things to say about women though.
A
"As the economy continues to shift away from brawn and toward brains, many men have struggled with the transition." And "'Boys are getting the wrong message about what you need to do to be successful,' Ms. Buchmann says. 'Traditional gender roles are misguiding boys. In today's economy, being tough and being strong are not what leads to success.'"
This article was a response to the anti boy bias of Upshot..
It was very degrading to young boys.
There's no anti-boy bias. It simply states that women happen to be getting more four-year college degrees, which the author agrees is true.
Saying more women are becoming educated than before isn't anti-male. It never claimed boys are less intelligent.
Quote from: "Romero"
But you feel that Mensa being 66% boys is?
Quote from: "Romero"
The author is claiming that all these women hate boys and men and it's just not true.
He has plenty of bad things to say about women though.
It doesn't say female teachers enjoy seeing boys fail. It says feminazis do. I would liken the education to intellectual water boarding based on what I've seen. They basically tie boys to desks and force an unsuited learning style on them.
I don't see the author claiming all these women hate men, just that they are doing them a disservice.
Quote from: "Romero"
Saying more women are becoming educated than before isn't anti-male. It never claimed boys are less intelligent.
It claims exactly what it entendee to claim - that make intellectual success is not being reflected in post secondary statistics and the reasons why that is.
Quote from: "Real Woman"
"women who enjoy seeing boys fail"
Direct quote. "Women". No mention of these imaginary "feminazis".
Our female educators are not Nazis.
Women who enjoy seeing boys fail = feminists who have influenced the system in which boys are not seeing success.
It doesn't say "women who are teachers" now does it?
You can't seriously believe that our education system is full of women who enjoy seeing boys fail.
Quote from: "Romero"
They are following what they have been trained to teach which is a disservice to our little boys.
I'm merely saying what is see in this author's writing.
I see a system that DOES NOT work for a lot of boys, including mine. It's like putting a square peg through a round hole. It doesn't work and frankly, I don't give a shit what has driven it aside from identifying for to fix it.
Funny how the article claims boys are not seeing success yet males dominate the highest scoring fields.
Wouldn't men be failing instead of succeeding?
you mean, you can honestly say that if you were to go to any mall in vancouver, walk down any street, attend any nightclub or public function....listen to the conversations around you and not conclude there is a problem with a large portion of the male population........then you for sure are trolling here homy..... :lol:
Quote from: "Obvious Li"
What problem? Any feminazis making you less of a man recently?
Quote from: "Romero"
Quote from: "Obvious Li"
What problem? Any feminazis making you less of a man recently?
Some boys are succeeding despite being born with the no longer necessary skills of being
Nobody's trying to make boys and men less tough and strong.
Gonna throw my 2 cents in.
I think the public education system is failing both girls and boys these days.
As for the author of the article. I did a bit of research. He's a self-published author with books that don't sell and has been proudly quoted as saying this:
Fred Reed, who has referred to Oprah Winfrey as looking "like five hundred pounds of bear liver in a plastic bag,"
and this gem
As nearly as I can tell, a racist is one who approves of rigorous education, good English, civilized manners, minimal criminality, and responsible parenthood, among other things.
Yeah, not to be taken seriously.
Quote from: "Romero"
But it is not what leads to success according to Ms. Buchmann.
Quote from: "ghost"
I think the public education system is failing both girls and boys these days.
As for the author of the article. I did a bit of research. He's a self-published author with books that don't sell and has been proudly quoted as saying this:
Fred Reed, who has referred to Oprah Winfrey as looking "like five hundred pounds of bear liver in a plastic bag,"
and this gem
As nearly as I can tell, a racist is one who approves of rigorous education, good English, civilized manners, minimal criminality, and responsible parenthood, among other things.
Yeah, not to be taken seriously.
ghost..you can do better than that..if you expect those that disagree with you to take you seriously then do the same...regardless of what the author thinks or has written he brings up a valid and pertinent point regarding the schooling of boys in the progressive system.....we are discussing that point....it has nothing to do with who the author is which is why i excluded his name....and your claims of racism about someone who you happen to disagree with go directly to the point here...saying what you think or pointing out facts you don't like is not necessarily always racist...it could be someones validly held opinion.
Quote from: "Obvious Li"
Quote from: "ghost"
I think the public education system is failing both girls and boys these days.
As for the author of the article. I did a bit of research. He's a self-published author with books that don't sell and has been proudly quoted as saying this:
Fred Reed, who has referred to Oprah Winfrey as looking "like five hundred pounds of bear liver in a plastic bag,"
and this gem
As nearly as I can tell, a racist is one who approves of rigorous education, good English, civilized manners, minimal criminality, and responsible parenthood, among other things.
Yeah, not to be taken seriously.
ghost..you can do better than that..if you expect those that disagree with you to take you seriously then do the same...regardless of what the author thinks or has written he brings up a valid and pertinent point regarding the schooling of boys in the progressive system.....we are discussing that point....it has nothing to do with who the author is which is why i excluded his name....and your claims of racism about someone who you happen to disagree with go directly to the point here...saying what you think or pointing out facts you don't like is not necessarily always racist...it could be someones validly held opinion.
Fred Reed is not the first person to say that public education is failing little boys..
As for the supposedly racist quote, it seems so obvious that it has been taken out of context to discredit the message..
I don't like that kind of smear the messenger tactic..
I feel Kathleen Parker has faced similar smears in response to her book, Save The Males.
Actually, Fash. I took that quote off his book jacket. He added that quote himself and seems rather proud of it.
Quote from: "Obvious Li"
Quote from: "ghost"
I think the public education system is failing both girls and boys these days.
As for the author of the article. I did a bit of research. He's a self-published author with books that don't sell and has been proudly quoted as saying this:
Fred Reed, who has referred to Oprah Winfrey as looking "like five hundred pounds of bear liver in a plastic bag,"
and this gem
As nearly as I can tell, a racist is one who approves of rigorous education, good English, civilized manners, minimal criminality, and responsible parenthood, among other things.
Yeah, not to be taken seriously.
ghost..you can do better than that..if you expect those that disagree with you to take you seriously then do the same...regardless of what the author thinks or has written he brings up a valid and pertinent point regarding the schooling of boys in the progressive system.....we are discussing that point....it has nothing to do with who the author is which is why i excluded his name....and your claims of racism about someone who you happen to disagree with go directly to the point here...saying what you think or pointing out facts you don't like is not necessarily always racist...it could be someones validly held opinion.
Sorry, but I have trouble taking a redneck hillbilly seriously. By that logic, we should all be listening to sharkhunter.
As I said, I feel the system is poor for both sexes.
ghost, I'm not a huge fan of the author's word choice but I agree with the premise that school is failing boys on a very fundemental level.
Interesting.
Just did a little more reading on the author, Fred Reed, and found out that most of what he writes is satirical. So basically, even he doesn't believe in what he's writing.
Was the over exaggerated language not enough to give that away?
Quote from: "Real Woman"
No. Just seeing the posts here shows that all sorts of weirdos believe all sorts of things.
Quote
#2. "I Swear, Kids Get Dumber Every Year"
The Complaint:
I fear for our nation, knowing that the idiots growing up in today's education system will be running our country someday. Have you talked to these morons? It's like trying to have a conversation with the fish in my aquarium.
But Actually ...
On the whole, today's teens are exponentially smarter than the generations before them. It's most apparent when you look at education completion rates. From 1970 to 2013, the number of kids dropping out of school has been cut nearly in half.
They've also realized that they're at a severe disadvantage in the workforce without a college degree, so we're seeing a significant increase in students completing their higher education. According to one study, one-third of 25- to 29-year-olds have a bachelor's degree or higher. For some perspective, that number was barely over 10 percent through the mid-1960s.
//http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-complaints-about-modern-teens-that-are-statistically-bs_p2/
High school graduation rates have never been higher and dropout rates never lower.
Literacy is at an all time high.
More youth are taking post-secondary and getting degrees.
More youth know more than one language.
And they're the most tech savvy.
it is not unexpected to see that some of the responses here are textbook.....what you would expect.....attack the messenger because you can't attack the message type of responses we have become used to......from the usual suspects...that type of thinking is fully and firmly entrenched in the system from top to bottom....calling people who espouse the truth; racists, bigots, homophobes etc. has been a very effective tool to silence opposition for the past two decades....lets hope it will see it's day soon...Fred Reed mostly writes (sometimes satirically) about the condition of black schools, black students, black teachers and black education in american cities...it is not a pretty picture...the quote you referred to said the following:
"As nearly as I can tell, a racist is one who approves of rigorous education, good English, civilized manners, minimal criminality, and responsible parenthood, among other things."
which is what he has been labelled for daring to expose the current educational system is sadly lacking in all those outcomes for blacks and for pointing out the sad condition of the black educational system...again, when someone points out an uncomfortable truth...using the"racist" card is the first line of attack for the intellectually dishonest.
Quote from: "ghost"
Quote from: "Real Woman"
No. Just seeing the posts here shows that all sorts of weirdos believe all sorts of things.
You do realise ghost that he's not the first person to made such observations or identify this systemic problem right?
GAH! I'm doing it again :(
Quote from: "Real Woman"
Quote from: "ghost"
Quote from: "Real Woman"
No. Just seeing the posts here shows that all sorts of weirdos believe all sorts of things.
You do realise ghost that he's not the first person to made such observations or identify this systemic problem right?
GAH! I'm doing it again :(
well i for one am glad you are..hope you can get back to conscious free posting soon...cheers
Quote from: "Real Woman"
Quote from: "ghost"
Quote from: "Real Woman"
No. Just seeing the posts here shows that all sorts of weirdos believe all sorts of things.
You do realise ghost that he's not the first person to made such observations or identify this systemic problem right?
GAH! I'm doing it again :(
Attacking the messenger rather than attacking the problem does solve the problem of a public school system that is not serving the needs of little boys..
Fred Reed is not the first person to address the disservice being done to boys in the public schools..
As a mother of young boy, I have read many different people write the same thing about this problem..
The gap between boys and girls
By kindergarten, boys already fare much worse on social and behavioral measures than girls. The gender gap is even larger than the class gap and some racial gaps.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/29/upshot/a-link-between-fidgety-boys-and-a-sputtering-economy.html?smid=fb-&_r=1
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/why-our-schools-are-failing-boys-1.952880
Looking at the demographics of university-bound students today, it is hard to believe that not so long ago we were developing programs to get more girls into university.
By all indications now, that same spirit of reform and innovation is needed to push more boys into higher education — for all that may be worth.
These days I need only peek into a class and I can tell by the gender makeup whether or not it is academic or applied.
Those classes where the majority are female students are invariably academic. Those where the majority is male are not.
No surprise then that the face of university education in this country is increasingly becoming female as women have been overtaking men in both the participation rate as well as in the percentage who graduate.
According to the federal department of human resources and skills development, 18 per cent of young men 18-24 were in university in 2005-06. The equivalent figure for young women was 28 per cent.
At the same time, the high school dropout rate for male students has remained consistently higher in recent decades than that for girls, another indicator that our education system is failing our boys.
There is clearly a problem here.
Increasingly female
I am blaming "the system" for this because we shouldn't be blaming young male students for the difficulties they face in what is arguably an increasingly female-programmed educational culture.
Some, such as Michael Reist, an Ontario teacher and author of The Dysfunctional School: Uncomfortable Truths and Awkward Insights on School, Learning, and Education, blame the problem on research that suggests the brains of boys and girls are "wired" differently.
They argue that boys' brains are more able to deal with spatial problems and girls tend to be more developed in language and communication, which, if true, is certainly a concern when one looks at the way many class lessons are now organized.
"Classrooms keep getting set up more and more around the verbal and less around the kinesthetic and active," says Michael Gurian author of Boys and Girls Learn Differently. "They are increasingly becoming environments that favour the girls' brain."
And as enticing as the notion may be to some radical feminists, we simply cannot re-engineer the male brain. From a teacher's perspective, at least, boys and girls are simply different.
Boys can learn
As Gurian says, "You can't treat boys as defective, they are not defective, they are really good learners.
"But they are not going to learn well in the environments that we are putting in front of them." Apart from being hands-on learners, boys tend to have a preference for informational text as opposed to narrative, according to some research.
In fiction, they like text that is funny and they like material with action and description. They also seem to like to solve problems.
So why do we not treat this male brain as a springboard from which we can set the groundwork for a new generation of male scientists, engineers, teachers, journalists and businessmen? As a change from our current one-size-fits-all approach.
Today, in a desperate attempt to address the gender-learning gap, "alternate" boy strategies and "supplementary" reading material are being offered to teachers, to try to re-engage the males in our classrooms.
But as much as I try I cannot help but see the word CHARITY written in big letters in the overriding attitude of everything that has come my way.
We will not get very far if we merely give underachieving boys some alternative, not-intellectually-stimulating material and treat them as academic charity cases.
Instead, there must be genuine recognition and appreciation of boys' different learning styles, regardless of how these styles are viewed by those currently in charge.
A different path
Institutionally, this may yet play out in the new emphasis on skilled-trade education that is sweeping across the country.
In some places, it is being aggressively packaged as one possible solution to help boys succeed better in the educational system.
But we won't get the clientele that can really thrive in this program unless we treat this as a viable and respectable non-university career path, indeed one that could even exceed the material success of many in the university-bound cohort.
In today's economic climate, skilled-trade education, with its focus on hands-on informational and problem-solving skills, should no longer be seen as low-value "compromise" education.
I certainly do not see this when I encounter former students, now working as plumbers or electricians, who are making more money than their university-educated teachers.
So many of them are doing very well in the real world. We just now have to find a way of getting them to thrive in our schools.
Quote from: "Real Woman"
Quote from: "ghost"
Quote from: "Real Woman"
No. Just seeing the posts here shows that all sorts of weirdos believe all sorts of things.
You do realise ghost that he's not the first person to made such observations or identify this systemic problem right?
GAH! I'm doing it again :(
Arguing where there's no argument? Yes, you are doing it again.
I never said I don't agree with the message that children's education is crap. In fact, I believe today's system is dangerously ridiculous. And there are no shortage of teachers who agree with me. It's not the teachers making these policies.
What I don't like is the blaming of women. Comments like feminists deliberately trying to keep boys down, women resenting men's strength, men are better/women are bitter, crap that comes out of this article.
Quote from: "ghost"
Quote from: "Real Woman"
Quote from: "ghost"
No. Just seeing the posts here shows that all sorts of weirdos believe all sorts of things.
You do realise ghost that he's not the first person to made such observations or identify this systemic problem right?
GAH! I'm doing it again :(
Arguing where there's no argument? Yes, you are doing it again.
I never said I don't agree with the message that children's education is crap. In fact, I believe today's system is dangerously ridiculous. And there are no shortage of teachers who agree with me. It's not the teachers making these policies.
What I don't like is the blaming of women.
can you point to any one of the descriptions he has used as being untrue...attended any womens studies courses lately ????
Quote from: "Obvious Li"
Quote from: "ghost"
Arguing where there's no argument? Yes, you are doing it again.
I never said I don't agree with the message that children's education is crap. In fact, I believe today's system is dangerously ridiculous. And there are no shortage of teachers who agree with me. It's not the teachers making these policies.
What I don't like is the blaming of women.
can you point to any one of the descriptions he has used as being untrue...attended any womens studies courses lately ????
Yes, I have actually. And don't worry, your paranoia is unfounded.
All those descriptions are untrue. Women's studies is about empowerment and equality, not about destroying those precious male egos. But of course men like yourself always think everything is about them.
Quote from: "ghost"
Quote from: "Obvious Li"
Quote from: "ghost"
Arguing where there's no argument? Yes, you are doing it again.
I never said I don't agree with the message that children's education is crap. In fact, I believe today's system is dangerously ridiculous. And there are no shortage of teachers who agree with me. It's not the teachers making these policies.
What I don't like is the blaming of women.
can you point to any one of the descriptions he has used as being untrue...attended any womens studies courses lately ????
Yes, I have actually. And don't worry, your paranoia is unfounded.
All those descriptions are untrue. Women's studies is about empowerment and equality, not about destroying those precious male egos. But of course men like yourself always think everything is about them.
sounds like you got pretty high marks in those classes......congratulations it shows......your teachers would be so proud :ugeek: ..........
Quote from: "ghost"
All those descriptions are untrue. Women's studies is about empowerment and equality, not about destroying those precious male egos. But of course men like yourself always think everything is about them.
You clearly weren't in the class I was in because it was nothing resembling empowerment. It was all about how no matter what you do you are going to fucked because you have a vagina. If you stay home and make babies and clean house, you are pandering to a man made gender stereotype. If you go to work, you will never be able to meet your potential because there will always be a man on top of you. You will never be him or even make as much as the guy working half as hard sitting next to you. It was about how we are living in a man's world and have to break free from the chains of the patriarchy, which only serves to bring us down.
Empowerment my ass.
Quote from: "ghost"
Quote from: "Real Woman"
Quote from: "ghost"
No. Just seeing the posts here shows that all sorts of weirdos believe all sorts of things.
You do realise ghost that he's not the first person to made such observations or identify this systemic problem right?
GAH! I'm doing it again :(
Arguing where there's no argument? Yes, you are doing it again.
I never said I don't agree with the message that children's education is crap. In fact, I believe today's system is dangerously ridiculous. And there are no shortage of teachers who agree with me. It's not the teachers making these policies.
What I don't like is the blaming of women. Comments like feminists deliberately trying to keep boys down, women resenting men's strength, men are better/women are bitter, crap that comes out of this article.
It's clear that it speaks to feminism and feminists not some slam on every day women.
Right, because most woman aren't feminists. They're mostly masculinists I guess.
Quote from: "ghost"
Quote from: "Obvious Li"
Quote from: "ghost"
Arguing where there's no argument? Yes, you are doing it again.
I never said I don't agree with the message that children's education is crap. In fact, I believe today's system is dangerously ridiculous. And there are no shortage of teachers who agree with me. It's not the teachers making these policies.
What I don't like is the blaming of women.
can you point to any one of the descriptions he has used as being untrue...attended any womens studies courses lately ????
Yes, I have actually. And don't worry, your paranoia is unfounded.
All those descriptions are untrue.
Haha, too fucking funny. :lol: :lol: :lol: Yeah, just like Asian American studies at any uni in California is not about we are victims and whitey is our oppressor.
Quote from: "Romero"
Maybe by the definition of what feminism once was. In my late teens I thought of myself as a feminist and then I realised what it meant to be one and I didn't want to be a part of it any more. It looked more like over compensation than equality to me and I dropped it as a means of identifying myself.
I'm a woman who believes in equality but I'm not a feminist.
Quote from: "Real Woman"
Quote from: "Romero"
Maybe by the definition of what feminism once was. In my late teens I thought of myself as a feminist and then I realised what it meant to be one and I didn't want to be a part of it any more.
I'm a woman who believes in equality but I'm not a feminist.
That is exactly how I feel about the Asian empowerment crybaby clowns.
Quote from: "Obvious Li"
sounds like you got pretty high marks in those classes......congratulations it shows......your teachers would be so proud :ugeek: ..........
I also got high marks with my MA in Creative Writing...earns me a six figure income. I'm sure you've got opinions on that too.
Quote from: "Real Woman"
Quote from: "Romero"
Maybe by the definition of what feminism once was. In my late teens I thought of myself as a feminist and then I realised what it meant to be one and I didn't want to be a part of it any more. It looked more like over compensation than equality to me and I dropped it as a means of identifying myself.
I'm a woman who believes in equality but I'm not a feminist.
I often say that too. I think the problem is there are too many different levels of feminism. It's gotten so bad that the lines are all blurred.
Quote from: "ghost"
Quote from: "Real Woman"
Quote from: "Romero"
Maybe by the definition of what feminism once was. In my late teens I thought of myself as a feminist and then I realised what it meant to be one and I didn't want to be a part of it any more. It looked more like over compensation than equality to me and I dropped it as a means of identifying myself.
I'm a woman who believes in equality but I'm not a feminist.
I often say that too. I think the problem is there are too many different levels of feminism. It's gotten so bad that the lines are all blurred.
I see a compromise on the horizon.
Quote from: "ghost"
Quote from: "Obvious Li"
sounds like you got pretty high marks in those classes......congratulations it shows......your teachers would be so proud :ugeek: ..........
I also got high marks with my MA in Creative Writing...earns me a six figure income. I'm sure you've got opinions on that too.
nope..i do not..except to say congratulations on your successes....if you can make it as a writer that says something..it is a tough business.....doesn't change the facts regarding the topic we were discussing......or the truth of the authors words :ugeek:
Quote from: "ghost"
Quote from: "Real Woman"
Quote from: "Romero"
Maybe by the definition of what feminism once was. In my late teens I thought of myself as a feminist and then I realised what it meant to be one and I didn't want to be a part of it any more. It looked more like over compensation than equality to me and I dropped it as a means of identifying myself.
I'm a woman who believes in equality but I'm not a feminist.
I often say that too. I think the problem is there are too many different levels of feminism. It's gotten so bad that the lines are all blurred.
And when I read the essay in the OP, I read "feminazi" - the rabid, over compensating types whose mission it is to elevate women without actual equal gender foresight. That's probably why it didn't offend me as a woman.
Shen, I think of these things as pendulums. A problem is identified and everything and the kitchen sink is thrown at it which results in a push too far in terms of correction. Then we see it's too far and we correct the swing again. We keep doing this until we land somewhere closer to balance.
Quote from: "Real Woman"
Quote from: "Romero"
Maybe by the definition of what feminism once was. In my late teens I thought of myself as a feminist and then I realised what it meant to be one and I didn't want to be a part of it any more. It looked more like over compensation than equality to me and I dropped it as a means of identifying myself.
I'm a woman who believes in equality but I'm not a feminist.
If you believe in women's rights and equality, you're a feminist.
Quote from: "Real Woman"
The article says "feminists". "Feminazi" is never used.
Quote from: "Romero"
Quote from: "Real Woman"
Quote from: "Romero"
Maybe by the definition of what feminism once was. In my late teens I thought of myself as a feminist and then I realised what it meant to be one and I didn't want to be a part of it any more. It looked more like over compensation than equality to me and I dropped it as a means of identifying myself.
I'm a woman who believes in equality but I'm not a feminist.
Quote from: "Real Woman"
The article says "feminists". "Feminazi" is never used.
Is that all that's required to be a feminist Romero?
I am feminine, not a feminist.
That's the basic definition!
Quote from: "Romero"
Quote from: "Real Woman"
Quote from: "Romero"
Maybe by the definition of what feminism once was. In my late teens I thought of myself as a feminist and then I realised what it meant to be one and I didn't want to be a part of it any more. It looked more like over compensation than equality to me and I dropped it as a means of identifying myself.
I'm a woman who believes in equality but I'm not a feminist.
If you believe in women's rights and equality, you're a feminist.
Quote from: "Real Woman"
The article says "feminists". "Feminazi" is never used.
And "gay" used to mean "happy". I do not consider myself a feminist. Deal with it.
The author was pretty clear on the type of women he was addressing when he said feminist aka feminazis.
Quote from: "Romero"
[attachment=0]0023.gif[/attachment]
Quote from: "Real Woman"
Quote from: "Romero"
Quote from: "Real Woman"
Maybe by the definition of what feminism once was. In my late teens I thought of myself as a feminist and then I realised what it meant to be one and I didn't want to be a part of it any more. It looked more like over compensation than equality to me and I dropped it as a means of identifying myself.
I'm a woman who believes in equality but I'm not a feminist.
If you believe in women's rights and equality, you're a feminist.
Quote from: "Real Woman"
The article says "feminists". "Feminazi" is never used.
And "gay" used to mean "happy". I do not consider myself a feminist. Deal with it.
I've never been called a feminazi before.
:?
Quote from: "Real Woman"
The author was pretty clear on the type of women he was addressing when he said feminist aka feminazis.
You're picking a word that has changed definition and comparing it to a word that hasn't changed definition. Feminism still means women's rights and equality.
The author blames teacher's unions. To me that means teacher's unions. Perhaps to you it means "hardcore commie fascists"?
Anyway, you can't seriously believe there are thousands upon thousands of "feminazis" controlling our education system. Ever been to a school? Where are they all? They don't exist.
Quote from: "Romero"
Quote from: "Real Woman"
The author was pretty clear on the type of women he was addressing when he said feminist aka feminazis.
You're picking a word that has changed definition and comparing it to a word that hasn't changed definition. Feminism still means women's rights and equality.
The author blames teacher's unions. To me that means teacher's unions. Perhaps to you it means "hardcore commie fascists"?
Anyway, you can't seriously believe there are thousands upon thousands of "feminazis" controlling our education system. Ever been to a school? Where are they all? They don't exist.
Romero, you can't seriously believe that our public education system is serving the unique needs of little boys?
It's not perfect, but it's not full of "feminazis" who "enjoy seeing boys fail". Most teachers do a great job and care for their students very much.
Quote from: "Romero"
I have no exposure to the public school system, but I feel curriculum problems have little to do with teachers.
Quote from: "Romero"
I have been in a school lately. In fact, I was in one yesterday and the day before that, and the day before that.
Have YOU been in a school lately?
Do YOU know who sets learning outcomes?
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "Romero"
I have no exposure to the public school system, but I feel curriculum problems have little to do with teachers.
I have friends who are teachers. They are all very much against it.
There's a lot of whacked curriculum requirements out there.
Quote from: "Real Woman"
Hey, is there much variance between the different school boards? How much autonomy do local school boards have when it comes to curriculum?
The Ministry sets prescribed learning outcomes (PLOs) that are province wide. There is some flexibility in how those outcomes are met and boards can develop local curriculum so long as it meets the PLOs.
Quote from: "Real Woman"
That's how I thought it worked. Province sets guidelines and some room for they can meet them.
Sorry, I edited. But yeah, pretty much.
Quote from: "ghost"
Quote from: "Real Woman"
Quote from: "ghost"
No. Just seeing the posts here shows that all sorts of weirdos believe all sorts of things.
You do realise ghost that he's not the first person to made such observations or identify this systemic problem right?
GAH! I'm doing it again :(
Arguing where there's no argument? Yes, you are doing it again.
I never said I don't agree with the message that children's education is crap. In fact, I believe today's system is dangerously ridiculous. And there are no shortage of teachers who agree with me. It's not the teachers making these policies.
What I don't like is the blaming of women. Comments like feminists deliberately trying to keep boys down, women resenting men's strength, men are better/women are bitter, crap that comes out of this article.
Why are so many feminists 400 pounders. ;) :lol: 8-)
They aren't dipshit.
Quote from: "Real Woman"
Have YOU been in a school lately?
I have not but you have. So we both know they're not overrun by feminazis!
Quote from: "Romero"
Quote from: "Real Woman"
Have YOU been in a school lately?
I have not but you have. So we both know they're not overrun by feminazis!
Teachers don't develop learning outcomes so moot point. Speaking of feminazis, have you checked government lately? :)
Quote from: "Real Woman"
Quote from: "Romero"
Quote from: "Real Woman"
Have YOU been in a school lately?
I have not but you have. So we both know they're not overrun by feminazis!
It's the same at my children's school.
Quote from: "Real Woman"
Quote from: "Romero"
Quote from: "Real Woman"
Have YOU been in a school lately?
I have not but you have. So we both know they're not overrun by feminazis!
Teachers don't develop learning outcomes so moot point. Speaking of feminazis, have you checked government lately? :)
Our feminazi in Alberta resigned.