Title: What say about his situation.....
Post by: Obvious Li on May 19, 2014, 04:08:35 AM
Post by: Obvious Li on May 19, 2014, 04:08:35 AM
Such rulings involving Americans are rare: The IRB told the National Post Thursday that only three such claims were accepted in 2013.
Ms. Harvey, a mortgage broker, and the 16-year-old met at her son's baseball practices. The two had sex five times at the boy's father's house and after hours in her office.
In November, 2009, Ms. Harvey, her husband and son, fled their Vero Beach, Fla. home and moved to Pike Lake, Sask.
One and a half years later, in April 2011, she was arrested by RCMP.
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'He ate the cookies, too': Police search for victims of prolific pedophile who drugged students around the world before abuse
Ms. Harvey then sought refugee protection, claiming her 30-year sentence was "cruel and unusual punishment." She insisted she did not commit the crimes she'd been convicted of.
The Immigration and Refugee Board initially granted asylum to Ms. Harvey. In federal court documents, the board notes that there was no evidence that the sex was not consensual. The physical relationship was only illegal because of the age difference, the documents state.
The IRB decided Ms. Harvey was facing cruel and unusual punishment by Canada's standards, which was also in disregard, it said, of ''accepted international standards.''
In Florida, it is illegal for a person over the age of 24 to have sex with a person 16 or younger. In Canada, the age of consent is 16. If the accused is in a position of trust or authority, the age of consent is 18.
Canada's Minister of Citizenship and Immigration then appealed to the Federal Court of Canada to overturn the decision. In a decision released in July, 2013, the appeal was granted and Ms. Harvey lost her refugee status.
The judge in the appeal case ruled the IRB had not provided adequate reasoning explaining why Ms. Harvey's sentence contravened international standards. "We do not know which of Ms. Harvey's arguments on the question of 'accepted international standards' were or were not accepted and why that was," wrote Justice Anne Mactavish.
This federal court decision cleared the way for a new IRB hearing.
Alexis Pavlich, spokesperson for Chris Alexander, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration Canada, said the government's position in the case is clear, noting it had appealed the ruling.
"Our Conservative government is committed to keeping Canada's streets and communities safe for all Canadians, particularly for those who are most vulnerable – children," she said.
Our Conservative government is committed to keeping Canada's streets and communities safe for all Canadians, particularly for those who are most vulnerable – children
Nikki Robinson, a Florida assistant state attorney who was a prosecutor on Ms. Harvey's original case, said Ms. Harvey entered Canada illegally as a convicted sex offender.
"It is incomprehensible to me that Canada would grant her any type of immigration relief under these circumstances," she said in an email to the National Post.
Barry Golden, senior investigator with the U.S. Marshal's Office in Miami, Fla., said Ms. Harvey's case will remain open in the U.S.
"If she does come back to the States there will be an active arrest warrant for her," he said.
"This type of crime, any felony where you're sentenced to 30 years, that's a severe crime," he said.
He said he could not comment on whether or not the U.S. would continue to seek to extradite Ms. Harvey.
"It's a case that's going to remain open, not only with our marshal's service in Fort Pierce but also our international investigations branch," he said. "We have investigators that are liaisons to Canada and they may periodically keep tabs on the investigation and find out what's going on.
"We don't close a case just because things aren't ruled in our favour," he said.
A spokesperson for the IRB said they cannot discuss specific refugee claims or claims to be a person in need of protection due to privacy restrictions.
Ms. Harvey's lawyer said he would not comment on her case.
If Ms. Harvey does apply for permanent resident states and is approved, she will receive most social benefits Canadians receive, including healthcare coverage. She could also apply for Canadian citizenship.
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: keeper on May 19, 2014, 04:24:27 AM
Post by: keeper on May 19, 2014, 04:24:27 AM
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: RW on May 19, 2014, 11:07:55 AM
Post by: RW on May 19, 2014, 11:07:55 AM
Thirty years for consensual sex with a 16 year old is ridiculous. The US needs to get its legal system in order and stop making this shit our problem.
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: Anonymous on May 19, 2014, 12:48:55 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 19, 2014, 12:48:55 PM
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: Renee on May 19, 2014, 01:14:41 PM
Post by: Renee on May 19, 2014, 01:14:41 PM
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: Anonymous on May 19, 2014, 01:22:40 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 19, 2014, 01:22:40 PM
I think you can have her. If having sex with a child; consensual or otherwise is okay with you guys then by all means keep the scummy bitch. It saves us the trouble and money of warehousing her degenerate ass.Quote from: "Renee"
I would guess that most Canadians do not want her here Renee.
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: RW on May 19, 2014, 04:23:03 PM
Post by: RW on May 19, 2014, 04:23:03 PM
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: Renee on May 19, 2014, 04:35:09 PM
Post by: Renee on May 19, 2014, 04:35:09 PM
Renee, in Canada, consenting age is 16 (with circumstantial restriction - not age limit necessarily). What she did may not have even been a crime here. Regardless, 30 years is a ridiculous sentence.Quote from: "Real Woman"
You're right it is a ridiculous sentence. I would much rather see her get a bullet to the back of the head.
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: Obvious Li on May 19, 2014, 07:43:24 PM
Post by: Obvious Li on May 19, 2014, 07:43:24 PM
Renee, in Canada, consenting age is 16 (with circumstantial restriction - not age limit necessarily). What she did may not have even been a crime here. Regardless, 30 years is a ridiculous sentence.Quote from: "Real Woman"
You're right it is a ridiculous sentence. I would much rather see her get a bullet to the back of the head.
jesus..i'm sure glad you weren't the truant officer when i went to high school.....woulda been pretty boring at all those bush parties....... :mrgreen:
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: Anonymous on May 19, 2014, 10:56:52 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 19, 2014, 10:56:52 PM
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: RW on May 19, 2014, 11:44:41 PM
Post by: RW on May 19, 2014, 11:44:41 PM
Wow Renee.
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: Obvious Li on May 20, 2014, 04:33:05 AM
Post by: Obvious Li on May 20, 2014, 04:33:05 AM
So having consensual sex with someone of age to consent but being branded a "sex offender" based on some arbitrary age restriction is bullet worthy?Quote from: "Real Woman"
Wow Renee.
never thought it would happen....but i am with you on this one cupcake.....until the 1960's if you weren't married by 16 you would be considered an old maid.....30 fucking years....crazy shit going on down there
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: Chickenfeets on May 20, 2014, 08:27:59 AM
Post by: Chickenfeets on May 20, 2014, 08:27:59 AM
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: RW on May 20, 2014, 10:19:33 AM
Post by: RW on May 20, 2014, 10:19:33 AM
The problem can take care of itself.
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: Anonymous on May 20, 2014, 06:23:15 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 20, 2014, 06:23:15 PM
I'm more concerned by the fact that it's legal for a 12 year old to buy ammunition for and use daddy's shotgun than by who a 16 year old chooses to sleep with.Quote from: "Chickenfeets"
There is something really fucked up about any woman that has sex with a 16 year old boy. However, my problem is the abuse of our refugee system again and again.
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: RW on May 20, 2014, 06:35:46 PM
Post by: RW on May 20, 2014, 06:35:46 PM
A sentence of 30 years in prison is ridiculous given the crime. I put the blame fully on Florida. If not for their cocked up prison term, this woman would not be sitting in Canada costing us money.
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: Anonymous on May 20, 2014, 06:41:39 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 20, 2014, 06:41:39 PM
If a person is of the age of consent, he or she should be allowed to have consensual sex with anyone who is of consenting age and not an immediate blood relative that he or she pleases.Quote from: "Real Woman"
A sentence of 30 years in prison is ridiculous given the crime.I put the blame fully on Florida.If not for their cocked up prison term, this woman would not be sitting in Canada costing us money.
I sure as fuck don't. We have a system that invites abuse including Israelis, Europeans, South Koreans AND Americans. None of these places persecute their citizens. Most refugees are economic migrants using the backdoor because they don't have the skills to be accepted as permanent residents. Fuck this woman, send her back.
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: RW on May 20, 2014, 07:13:45 PM
Post by: RW on May 20, 2014, 07:13:45 PM
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: Anonymous on May 20, 2014, 07:53:19 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 20, 2014, 07:53:19 PM
You think she'd rather be in Canada than in her home state? Puh-lease! If it wasn't for that retarded sentence, she'd still be the US's problem.Quote from: "Real Woman"
I don't give a fuck where she'd rather be. We need to stop inviting abuse of our refugee system. She's no more a refugee than the Roma migrants from Europe who game the system.
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: RW on May 20, 2014, 10:03:16 PM
Post by: RW on May 20, 2014, 10:03:16 PM
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: Renee on May 21, 2014, 10:08:46 AM
Post by: Renee on May 21, 2014, 10:08:46 AM
So having consensual sex with someone of age to consent but being branded a "sex offender" based on some arbitrary age restriction is bullet worthy?Quote from: "Real Woman"
Wow Renee.
Consensual sex??? Look at this this way sweetie; how would you feel if some 30 year old guy was having "consensual" sex with your 16 year old daughter? I can almost guarantee you would be chasing him around with a pair of hedge clippers trying chop his dick off.
Personally I think any adult that has sex with a child under the age of 18; consensual or not, is a predator and needs to be treated accordingly. No 30 year old needs to be having sex with a 16 year old child, legal or not. I suppose if we are going to start thinking that 16 year olds are competent and worldly enough to be able to give consent then maybe we should just be marrying off our children at 15 or 16 like fucking 19th century hillbillies.
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: Renee on May 21, 2014, 10:32:47 AM
Post by: Renee on May 21, 2014, 10:32:47 AM
I'm more concerned by the fact that it's legal for a 12 year old to buy ammunitionfor and use daddy's shotgun than by who a 16 year old chooses to sleep with.
Where is that legal? Because it is not legal in the US.
"Under federal law, it is illegal to sell (1)
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: RW on May 21, 2014, 11:35:48 AM
Post by: RW on May 21, 2014, 11:35:48 AM
So having consensual sex with someone of age to consent but being branded a "sex offender" based on some arbitrary age restriction is bullet worthy?Quote from: "Real Woman"
Wow Renee.
Consensual sex??? Look at this this way sweetie; how would you feel if some 30 year old guy was having "consensual" sex with your 16 year old daughter? I can almost guarantee you would be chasing him around with a pair of hedge clippers trying chop his dick off.
Personally I think any adult that has sex with a child under the age of 18; consensual or not, is a predator and needs to be treated accordingly. No 30 year old needs to be having sex with a 16 year old child, legal or not. I suppose if we are going to start thinking that 16 year olds are competent and worldly enough to be able to give consent then maybe we should just be marrying off our children at 15 or 16 like fucking 19th century hillbillies.
Being a person who as a teenager had sex with older men and guys around my own age, I can say that the older guys were far more sexually respectful than the younger ones.
At 16, I don't want my daughter (or son) sleeping with any body! But the law, by whatever markers they used to decide consenting age, set it at 16. I would rather see it set at 18 instead of having a bunch of restrictions on what age group one can bed down with, but I suspect, that would make a lot of criminals out of randy teens.
REGARDLESS...
30 years for having sex with someone who is the legal age to consent is FUCKING RIDICULOUS. The American judicial system needs to stop being so bloody outrageous.
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: Renee on May 21, 2014, 12:40:14 PM
Post by: Renee on May 21, 2014, 12:40:14 PM
So having consensual sex with someone of age to consent but being branded a "sex offender" based on some arbitrary age restriction is bullet worthy?Quote from: "Real Woman"
Wow Renee.
Consensual sex??? Look at this this way sweetie; how would you feel if some 30 year old guy was having "consensual" sex with your 16 year old daughter? I can almost guarantee you would be chasing him around with a pair of hedge clippers trying chop his dick off.
Personally I think any adult that has sex with a child under the age of 18; consensual or not, is a predator and needs to be treated accordingly. No 30 year old needs to be having sex with a 16 year old child, legal or not. I suppose if we are going to start thinking that 16 year olds are competent and worldly enough to be able to give consent then maybe we should just be marrying off our children at 15 or 16 like fucking 19th century hillbillies.
Being a person who as a teenager had sex with older men and guys around my own age, I can say that the older guys were far more sexually respectful than the younger ones.
At 16, I don't want my daughter (or son) sleeping with any body! But the law, by whatever markers they used to decide consenting age, set it at 16. I would rather see it set at 18 instead of having a bunch of restrictions on what age group one can bed down with, but I suspect, that would make a lot of criminals out of randy teens.
REGARDLESS...
30 years for having sex with someonewho is the legal age to consent is FUCKING RIDICULOUS. The American judicial system needs to stop being so bloody outrageous.
Lets get it straight and stop appling Canadian laws of consent to the case. Under Florida law this WASN'T a case of "consensual sex".
The age of consent in Florida is 18, but close-in-age exemptions exist. The law is complicated, but it appears that it is illegal to have sex with anyone under 12; legal for a person under 18 to have consensual sex with someone 12 or older (Section 794.11), and it is legal for a person 18-23 to have consensual sex with someone 16 or older (794.05). Persons 24 or older, or who are over 18 and have a position of authority over the other person are only permitted to have sex with them if they are at least 18.
794.05 Unlawful sexual activity with certain minors.-- (1) A person 24 years of age or older who engages in sexual activity with a person 16 or 17 years of age commits a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084. As used in this section, "sexual activity" means oral, anal, or vaginal penetration by, or union with, the sexual organ of another; however, sexual activity does not include an act done for a bona fide medical purpose Florida code, Title XLVI, Chapter 794
The woman was convicted of 5 counts of unlawful sexual activity. I'm sure when you add the 5 counts up that is where the 30 years comes from. If it was one or two counts the sentence would have been much lighter. Unfortunately the woman was obviously well beyond the "close age of exception" and has been convicted under the law and should be punished accordingly. Now is the law needlessly convoluted and complicated; yes I think it is. But whatever "markers" they used to create the law, that's the way it is.
I agree that it should be 18 in all cases but it isn't. It varies from state to state with 16 being the most common age of consent. Until the laws are changed child sexual predation cases will always be a volatile hot button subject. No judge or jury in either the US or Canada is going to be the one to say "aw I don't think that much harm was done; let's give the convicted a lighter sentence than the law dictates". Furthermore I still stand by my original appraisal; this 47 year old woman is a child predator and need to be dealt with accordingly.
If you don't like how our laws read then that's too bad. It's none of your business anyway. You deal with cases like this your way and we do it ours, your opinion matters not. If you think that this kind of thing is such a problem for Canada then why the hell is your government agonizing and debating the issue? Just throw the scumbags back over the border and let us deal with it. Is that too simple a solution for you or is it that you Canadians enjoy wringing your hands and shedding tears over what should be non-issues?
From an outsiders perspective, it seems that for many of you north of the border your social sensitivity training has gone a bit overboard.
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: RW on May 21, 2014, 04:48:43 PM
Post by: RW on May 21, 2014, 04:48:43 PM
And Renee, don't think the irony is lost on me. You want to put a woman in jail for having sex with a 16 year old for 30 years while you pay her room, board and supervision. What's that cost tax payers?
Again, you Yanks and you fucked up judicial system are RIDICULOUS.
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: Renee on May 21, 2014, 06:17:56 PM
Post by: Renee on May 21, 2014, 06:17:56 PM
It becomes our business when your citizens apply for refugee status based on ridiculous sentencing of crimes. Geddit?Quote from: "Real Woman"
And Renee, don't think the irony is lost on me. You want to put a woman in jail for having sex with a 16 year old for 30 years while you pay her room, board and supervision. What's that cost tax payers?
Again, you Yanks and you fucked up judicial system are RIDICULOUS.
You don't get it. It doesn't have to be YOUR business. Unfortunately your politicians and judges seem to have the time to debate and agonize over what to do but you don't have the time for the clear and simple solution. That's also RIDICULOUS. Besides just how often does this happen that you should have your panties in such a knot? Exactly how many sex offenders in the US jump bail and flee to Canada and then ask for "refugee status" each year? Has Canada become the new home for "refugee" sex offenders or some shit like that? If so then you are doing it wrong. Geddit?
As I stated the woman was convicted of FIVE counts of illegal sexual activity. Under the law you can't just throw several of the counts out simply because they make the sentence needlessly harsh. That's not how it works. You have to accept the sentence and then apply for appeal.
BTW, I have a strong feeling that the degenerate bitch in question would have run even if she got a light sentence. That is just the kind of creature she strikes me as. What 47 year old women would even risk getting herself in that kind of trouble if she wasn't a total scumbag? Shit she was even stupid and low enough to do it with a kid that her husband coached in little league. It's fucking abhorrent and it makes my skin crawl. You can say what you want about the sentence being overly harsh but as the old saying goes, "if you can't do the time, don't do the crime". It can't be any simpler.
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: RW on May 21, 2014, 07:06:33 PM
Post by: RW on May 21, 2014, 07:06:33 PM
But hey Renee, if you want to pay to house and feed pot smokers and soccer moms, who am I to say anything? All we ask is that you keep the problems you create to your damn selves!
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: Anonymous on May 21, 2014, 07:37:58 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 21, 2014, 07:37:58 PM
It becomes our business when your citizens apply for refugee status based on ridiculous sentencing of crimes. Geddit?
And Renee, don't think the irony is lost on me. You want to put a woman in jail for having sex with a 16 year old for 30 years while you pay her room, board and supervision. What's that cost tax payers?
Again, you Yanks and you fucked up judicial system are RIDICULOUS.
Bullshit, it becomes our business with another bogus refugee application. She's no more a real refugee than South Korean/Israeli conscription dodgers or Roma economic migrants. GEDDIT? She's taking advantage of absurdly generous laws. Get her the fuck out of here ASAP!!!
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: RW on May 21, 2014, 11:43:58 PM
Post by: RW on May 21, 2014, 11:43:58 PM
I agree Canada should have told her to get stuffed but I dare you Shen to make the argument that her alotted prison time isn't out in left field.
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: Anonymous on May 22, 2014, 02:38:13 AM
Post by: Anonymous on May 22, 2014, 02:38:13 AM
It becomes our business when your citizens apply for refugee status based on ridiculous sentencing of crimes. Geddit?
And Renee, don't think the irony is lost on me. You want to put a woman in jail for having sex with a 16 year old for 30 years while you pay her room, board and supervision. What's that cost tax payers?
Again, you Yanks and you fucked up judicial system are RIDICULOUS.
Bullshit, it becomes our business with another bogus refugee application. She's no more a real refugee than South Korean/Israeli conscription dodgers or Roma economic migrants. GEDDIT? She's taking advantage of absurdly generous laws. Get her the fuck out of here ASAP!!!
I know Canada accepts refugee claimants that few others would, but it is only one single refugee claimant.
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: keeper on May 22, 2014, 11:30:53 AM
Post by: keeper on May 22, 2014, 11:30:53 AM
30 years for boinking a 16 year old kid. REALLY?
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: RW on May 22, 2014, 11:56:19 AM
Post by: RW on May 22, 2014, 11:56:19 AM
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: Renee on May 22, 2014, 12:28:41 PM
Post by: Renee on May 22, 2014, 12:28:41 PM
To some of you here a 30 year sentence sounds harsh but as I suspected the sentence does not just reflect her deviant sexual behavior. This stupid bitch dug her own hole and now wants to climb out of it by using lenient Canadian refugee laws and the good will of the Canadian government. The best thing your government could do is just send her back over the border so she can get what she deserves.
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: Gary Oak on May 22, 2014, 01:10:58 PM
Post by: Gary Oak on May 22, 2014, 01:10:58 PM
It becomes our business when your citizens apply for refugee status based on ridiculous sentencing of crimes. Geddit?
And Renee, don't think the irony is lost on me. You want to put a woman in jail for having sex with a 16 year old for 30 years while you pay her room, board and supervision. What's that cost tax payers?
Again, you Yanks and you fucked up judicial system are RIDICULOUS.
Bullshit, it becomes our business with another bogus refugee application. She's no more a real refugee than South Korean/Israeli conscription dodgers or Roma economic migrants. GEDDIT? She's taking advantage of absurdly generous laws. Get her the fuck out of here ASAP!!!
I know Canada accepts refugee claimants that few others would, but it is only one single refugee claimant.
It figures mmjames aka seoulfag wants to open the floodgates. He wants more Canadiscams ripping off our country.
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: RW on May 22, 2014, 04:53:21 PM
Post by: RW on May 22, 2014, 04:53:21 PM
BTW, update: there is a lot more to this than meets the eye. Two of the five counts this pig was convicted of were "Blackmail" and "Obstruction of Justice". Apparently she tried the blackmail the victim's sister after the victim's sister discovered her having sex with her 16 year old brother. She also encouraged and coerced the 16 year old victim to lie to police. She's a real piece of work.Quote from: "Renee"http://forums.canadiancontent.net/news/117052-refugee-florida-woman-refugee-status.html
To some of you here a 30 year sentence sounds harsh but as I suspected the sentence does not just reflect her deviant sexual behavior. This stupid bitch dug her own hole and now wants to climb out of it by using lenient Canadian refugee laws and the good will of the Canadian government. The best thing your government could do is just send her back over the border so she can get what she deserves.
Yeah, you're right Renee. That warrants 30 years in jail. *rolling my eyes*
And don't get me wrong. I don't think Canada should take her in. I think you should keep her and jail her for an appropriate amount of time.
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: Renee on May 22, 2014, 05:16:14 PM
Post by: Renee on May 22, 2014, 05:16:14 PM
BTW, update: there is a lot more to this than meets the eye. Two of the five counts this pig was convicted of were "Blackmail" and "Obstruction of Justice". Apparently she tried the blackmail the victim's sister after the victim's sister discovered her having sex with her 16 year old brother. She also encouraged and coerced the 16 year old victim to lie to police. She's a real piece of work.Quote from: "Renee"http://forums.canadiancontent.net/news/117052-refugee-florida-woman-refugee-status.html
To some of you here a 30 year sentence sounds harsh but as I suspected the sentence does not just reflect her deviant sexual behavior. This stupid bitch dug her own hole and now wants to climb out of it by using lenient Canadian refugee laws and the good will of the Canadian government. The best thing your government could do is just send her back over the border so she can get what she deserves.
Yeah, you're right Renee. That warrants 30 years in jail. *rolling my eyes*
And don't get me wrong. I don't think Canada should take her in. I think you should keep her and jail her for an appropriate amount of time.
What is an "appropriate amount of time" according to you; 6 months, a year, 5 years and what legal statute are you basing it on? Since you think 30 years is sooooo out of line even though you don't really know any of the details of the case, what kind of sentence do you think is fair and appropriate? :?
BTW, I'm not really trying to be sarcastic so don't flip out on me :) . I'm just trying to understand what a lefty like you thinks is fair and appropriate treatment for a convicted child predator and general all around scumbag?
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: RW on May 22, 2014, 05:57:57 PM
Post by: RW on May 22, 2014, 05:57:57 PM
I'm going to ignore your lefty comment because it's as ridiculous as this sentence. My position on this case has more to do with my legal/criminology exposure than any political leanings I may have.
When considering the punishment for said crime, let's consider some reasonable factors shall we:
What was the physical, psychological/emotion harm done to the victim?
What is the threat to society by having this woman roaming about the streets of Florida?
What is the likelihood of her re-offending?
Does she have prior offenses or victims?
Is the punishment reasonable for the crime as a comparative to other serious crimes? (ie: should someone who has consensual sex with a 16 year old be punishment more harshly than say someone who is guilty of murder, rape, etc)
Are there other means of rehabilitation or punishment outside of incarceration that will yield the same result?
Although I believe Canada is too lax in regard to punishment, I think the US is way over the top with your stacking and consecutive sentences that end up making a mountain out of a mole hill. The legal system, a system that builds itself on logic and reason, should be more logical and reasonable than your current system Renee. The absurdity of punishment scales is doing your society a disservice IMHO and should be reviewed and updated.
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: Renee on May 22, 2014, 07:07:14 PM
Post by: Renee on May 22, 2014, 07:07:14 PM
Significant crime in case - 47 year old woman had sex with a 16 year old.Quote from: "Real Woman"Not much more to know than that.
You know that for a fact? Let's be real you gleaned that info from 500 word article on the internet and nothing more so in reality you really don't know everything or the mitigating factors that make up the significance of the crime. All you read was 47 year old women has sex with a minor, gets 30 years.
I'm going to ignore your lefty comment because it's as ridiculous as this sentence. My position on this case has more to do with my legal/criminology exposure than any political leanings I may have.Quote from: "Real Woman"
When considering the punishment for said crime, let's consider some reasonable factors shall we:
What was the physical, psychological/emotion harm done to the victim?
What is the threat to society by having this woman roaming about the streets of Florida?
What is the likelihood of her re-offending?
Does she have prior offenses or victims?
Is the punishment reasonable for the crime as a comparative to other serious crimes? (ie: should someone who has consensual sex with a 16 year old be punishment more harshly than say someone who is guilty of murder, rape, etc)
Are there other means of rehabilitation or punishment outside of incarceration that will yield the same result?
That's very nice and thank for providing an outline of the obvious but you didn't answer my question.
Although I believe Canada is too lax in regard to punishment, I think the US is way over the top with your stacking and consecutive sentences that end up making a mountain out of a mole hill. The legal system, a system that builds itself on logic and reason, should be more logical and reasonable than your current system Renee. The absurdity of punishment scales is doing your society a disservice IMHO and should be reviewed and updated.Quote from: "Real Woman"
Unfortunately, many criminals are not caught by the police until they have committed several crimes (as in this case), and often, they commit more than one crime at once. For this reason, the defendant will be tried for all of his or her offenses at one time, and will receive a penalty for each. Once the defendant has been convicted, the judge has the decision to assign his or her penalties concurrently or consecutively. Usually when the criminal counts are unrelated (as in this case, blackmail, obstruction and I'm sure child endangerment) the sentence is consecutive but if the criminal counts had all been related (as in only pretaining to her illegal sexual activity) the sentence would have been concurrent and probably much less severe. So you see it's up to a judge and not Florida law or the system on how sentencing will be applied. For whatever reason the judge in this case felt that consecutive sentencing best fit the crime or crimes. Was the Judge correct in his or her application of the sentence? I don't really know and NIETHER do you because we don't have enough info to determine if it was correct or not. At this point I will err on the side of the law until I see further info.
Furthermore if the sentence was grossly out of place and did not fit the crime then obviously one of two things happened. She was rail roaded or the defendant's lawyers didn't do a very good job of defending their client. Maybe her legal team was for shit but who are you going to blame for that; the legal system or the fact that the defendant had a shit for brains lawyer? In any event it would be up to the defendant to then hire a competent legal team and go for an appeal. Unfortunately that is how it works and I'm pretty sure it doesn't work all that differently in Canada as well.
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: RW on May 22, 2014, 07:42:05 PM
Post by: RW on May 22, 2014, 07:42:05 PM
And yes, I am commenting on what was said in an article. That is what we were asked to comment on. Given the stated facts, the punishment does not fit the crime. I am confident in making that assertion without blaming lawyers and outside of calls of case ignorance. A legal system, regardless of the quality of lawyer, should not allow for the imposition of outlandish (see cruel and unusual) punishments. This case is hardly the exception to the rule in your country.
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: Obvious Li on May 23, 2014, 05:49:53 AM
Post by: Obvious Li on May 23, 2014, 05:49:53 AM
BTW, update: there is a lot more to this than meets the eye. Two of the five counts this pig was convicted of were "Blackmail" and "Obstruction of Justice". Apparently she tried the blackmail the victim's sister after the victim's sister discovered her having sex with her 16 year old brother. She also encouraged and coerced the 16 year old victim to lie to police. She's a real piece of work.Quote from: "Renee"http://forums.canadiancontent.net/news/117052-refugee-florida-woman-refugee-status.html
To some of you here a 30 year sentence sounds harsh but as I suspected the sentence does not just reflect her deviant sexual behavior. This stupid bitch dug her own hole and now wants to climb out of it by using lenient Canadian refugee laws and the good will of the Canadian government. The best thing your government could do is just send her back over the border so she can get what she deserves.
Yeah, you're right Renee. That warrants 30 years in jail. *rolling my eyes*
And don't get me wrong. I don't think Canada should take her in. I think you should keep her and jail her for an appropriate amount of time.
What is an "appropriate amount of time" according to you; 6 months, a year, 5 years and what legal statute are you basing it on? Since you think 30 years is sooooo out of line even though you don't really know any of the details of the case, what kind of sentence do you think is fair and appropriate? :? yea or no
BTW, I'm not really trying to be sarcastic so don't flip out on me :) .I'm just trying to understand what a lefty like you thinks is fair and appropriate treatmentfor a convicted child predator and general all around scumbag?
too much drama...the appropriate punishment for a 16 year old boy having
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: Renee on May 23, 2014, 09:59:26 AM
Post by: Renee on May 23, 2014, 09:59:26 AM
Yeah, you're right Renee. That warrants 30 years in jail. *rolling my eyes*
And don't get me wrong. I don't think Canada should take her in. I think you should keep her and jail her for an appropriate amount of time.
What is an "appropriate amount of time" according to you; 6 months, a year, 5 years and what legal statute are you basing it on? Since you think 30 years is sooooo out of line even though you don't really know any of the details of the case, what kind of sentence do you think is fair and appropriate? :? yea or no
BTW, I'm not really trying to be sarcastic so don't flip out on me :) .I'm just trying to understand what a lefty like you thinks is fair and appropriate treatmentfor a convicted child predator and general all around scumbag?
too much drama...the appropriate punishment for a 16 year old boy havingconsensualsex with another adult should be zero.....by the age of 16 if this dolt doesn't know the difference between yes and no and be able to fend off a female of the species then HEneeds to be locked up......
By Florida law it WASN"T consensual, let's put that to bed once and for all, shall we. Furthermore there is something going on in the background of this case that we do not know. There is the issue of blackmail that has me troubled. We really don't know what it entailed. Was the victim of the blackmail threatened with bodily harm; was her life threatened in any way? What kind of coercion and manipulation did the convicted use on the 16 year old to convince him to blackmail his sister and lie to the police? Whatever methods she used could have been heinous for all we know and we simply do not know how and if it influenced the sentencing.
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: Renee on May 23, 2014, 10:14:34 AM
Post by: Renee on May 23, 2014, 10:14:34 AM
Here in Canada Renee, we have prescribed limits to crimes - minimums and maximums. A judge will look at a case as a whole and make a sentencing determination based on the whole picture. In this case, the sexual act itself would have fetched a set amount of years with an account taken of the frequency of the breech as well as any cover up attempts. For example, if the law here set a minimum sentence of 2 years and a maximum of 10 years, the woman in this case would receive the initial sentence as dictated by the crime and then likely an additional year or two for her attempts to thwart justice. (I say that rather tongue in cheek as what she did isn't actually illegal here.). Our judicial system works in such a way that it at least attempts to make the punishment fit the crime.Quote from: "Real Woman"An essential lifetime in prison isn't appropriate in this case IMHO.
And yes, I am commenting on what was said in an article. That is what we were asked to comment on. Given the stated facts, the punishment does not fit the crime. I am confident in making that assertion without blaming lawyers and outside of calls of case ignorance.A legal system, regardless of the quality of lawyer, should not allow for the imposition of outlandish (see cruel and unusual) punishments.This case is hardly the exception to the rule in your country.
Once again you are making suppositions without admittedly knowing ALL the facts of the case. So as per usual I find myself trying to combat preconceived notions and hysterics.......surprise....not.
The fact of the matter is you have your panties in a wad not because of the US legal system but because of the refugee issue. It wouldn't have mattered if the convicted received a 5 year or a 50 year sentence, you just want to cluck and wag your finger like so many of you up north love to do.
Enough with the bullshit; I might as well just kick myself in the ass for even entering this debate. I really should know better by now.
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: RW on May 23, 2014, 10:32:20 AM
Post by: RW on May 23, 2014, 10:32:20 AM
Blackmail, coercion are rather typical behaviours exhibited by desperate people. Regardless, coercision and blackmail shouldn't get a person 30 years in prison!
You talk about not knowing the details of the case. What's missing? Did she kill him? Because that's about the only thing that would make this sentence even resemble something reasonable.
I'm annoyed that your retarded legal system burdens mine. This judicial overreaction ends up costing ME money.
And you should kick your ass for even attempting to defend such utter legal stupidity.
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: Renee on May 23, 2014, 11:23:34 AM
Post by: Renee on May 23, 2014, 11:23:34 AM
I would imagine she said whatever she could have to avoid being reported because she was probably aware of the retarded sentences judges hand out in Florida :PQuote from: "Real Woman"
Blackmail, coercion are rather typical behaviours exhibited by desperate people. Regardless, coercision and blackmail shouldn't get a person 30 years in prison!
You talk about not knowing the details of the case. What's missing? Did she kill him? Because that's about the only thing that would make this sentence even resemble something reasonable.
I'm annoyed that your retarded legal system burdens mine. This judicial overreaction ends up costing ME money.And you should kick your ass for even attempting to defend such utter legal stupidity.
I'm not defending anything. It's just that I'm not going to fly off the handle and make ignorant statements because I am not intimate with the facts of the case.
Again you are making suppositions where it comes to the blackmail issue. As I stated, we don't know if the blackmail victim's life was threatened in any way and we don't know how credible the threat was or could have been. We also don't know how or if it influenced the sentencing and you don't know if this was a case of "judicial overreaction". Unfortunately this seems to be a recurring theme in your argument position.
IMHO opinion there is a good chance that the convicted would have run to Canada even if the sentence had been more in line with what you "assume" would be an "appropriate" sentence. From the little that I have seen she seems to be pretty much a desperate, manipulating, amoral, piece of shit and in no way was she going to take responsibility for what she had done. According to police she knew full well what she was doing and what laws she was breaking when she was doing it. Tell me, if her sentence had been 5 or 10 years or even 2 years would you be rating about the US justice system? Maybe you should be more concerned about the idiotic actions of your own government in this case? Maybe if they just remanded the bitch over to US authorities like they should and stopped playing a fool's political game of Ping-Pong with the convict's refugee status, it wouldn't be costing you any money? Is your government in the habit of giving refugee status to convicted child molesters? If so I think your outrage might just be a tad misplaced.
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: RW on May 23, 2014, 11:45:58 AM
Post by: RW on May 23, 2014, 11:45:58 AM
I suspect, considering I can't find the documents, that the case file is unavailable because it involves a minor. However, I did find her application for appeal and it was 5 counts of unlawful sexual activity.
Had she threatened, she likely would have been charged with uttering threats or whatever law you Yanks have to throw at such behaviour.
What I do know is this is a clear case of legal overreaction. How do I know this? BECAUSE SHE GOT 30 YEARS IN PRISON! The sentence for MURDER is 25 to life. This woman had sex with a 16 year old who willingly participated in the act FFS!
Honestly Renee, being a Republican, I'd think you'd rather not dole out wads of cash to keep horny soccer moms off American streets.
To answer your question, I object to age restrictions where exploitation is not involved on consent as a principle but I understand the intended purpose so I don't bitch too loudly about it. I wouldn't have any issue with this case had Denise Harvey recieved 5 years or less in prison. There would be no argument for cruel and unusual punishment had such a sentence been imposed.
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: Renee on May 23, 2014, 12:04:47 PM
Post by: Renee on May 23, 2014, 12:04:47 PM
Again, here in Canada, what this woman did was not illegal. She wouldn't have been convicted of being a sexual offender.Quote from: "Real Woman"
I suspect, considering I can't find the documents, that the case file is unavailable because it involves a minor. However, I did find her application for appeal and it was 5 counts of unlawful sexual activity.
Had she threatened, she likely would have been charged with uttering threats or whatever law you Yanks have to throw at such behaviour.
What I do know is this is a clear case of legal overreaction. How do I know this? BECAUSE SHE GOT 30 YEARS IN PRISON! The sentence for MURDER is 25 to life. This woman had sex with a 16 year old who willingly participated in the act FFS!
Honestly Renee, being a Republican, I'd think you'd rather not dole out wads of cash to keep horny soccer moms off American streets.
Honestly RW I'm not saying that the sentence fits the crime. I'm saying I don't know if it does or it doesn't. It sounds overly harsh but just like you I'm not privy to the facts of the case or what made the judge apply the sentence as he did. If the crimes involved were only pertaining to her illegal sexual activity then I can't help but think that the sentence would NOT have been consecutive. If the counts were all related crimes then the sentence should have been concurrent and less severe.
But as I've said a million times even if the sentence was concurrent there is no guarantee that she wouldn't have run to Canada. The fact remains is that your government is ridiculously agonizing over what to do with her when the clear answer is right in front of them.
BTW, I would rather not dole out money to keep her off the streets; hence my previous "bullet to the back of the head" comment. I suppose I can now expect another horrified gasp out of you?
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: RW on May 23, 2014, 12:23:14 PM
Post by: RW on May 23, 2014, 12:23:14 PM
And I'm saying it doesn't fit the crime at all even if you tack on attempts to thwart justice. However, I did look up her appeal case and all she appealed was 5 counts of unlawful sexual activity.
Had her sentence been reasonable, Canada would have shipped her ass back tout suite.
Bottom line: Stop being retarded with your sentencing.
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: Renee on May 23, 2014, 01:07:55 PM
Post by: Renee on May 23, 2014, 01:07:55 PM
Nah, I laughed :)Quote from: "Real Woman"
And I'm saying it doesn't fit the crime at all even if you tack on attempts to thwart justice. However, I did look up her appeal case and all she appealed was 5 counts of unlawful sexual activity.Had her sentence been reasonable, Canada would have shipped her ass back tout suite.
Bottom line: Stop being retarded with your sentencing.
I doubt it. You people have a tendency to want to molly coddle criminals and show sympathy for everyone who feels wronged in this world. Considering the sentence was so high one would think they would want to consult with US authorities on the reasoning or get rid of her ASAP.
A rational response would have been: "not my problem child fucker, be off with you" regardless of the sentence.
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: RW on May 23, 2014, 06:05:25 PM
Post by: RW on May 23, 2014, 06:05:25 PM
I have acknowledged that we tend to be lax with sentencing. That doesn't negate the prevalence of judicial retardation your country seems to suffer from.
Again Renee, what she did by having sex with a 16 year old is NOT illegal in Canada. Here, she is not a sex offender in the eyes of the law.
And we would have shipped her ass back without question had it not been for what amounts to essentially a life sentence. That said, we're nice so we probably though have paid her airfare back :)
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: Anonymous on May 23, 2014, 10:40:14 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 23, 2014, 10:40:14 PM
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: RW on May 23, 2014, 11:09:09 PM
Post by: RW on May 23, 2014, 11:09:09 PM
Say what you want about Canadian refugee laws, they are still far less fucked than the American justice system.
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: Anonymous on May 23, 2014, 11:15:41 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 23, 2014, 11:15:41 PM
Shen, I'm sorry but I still find it funny that she'd be nothing more than a pathetic old cougar rather than a pedophile if she did this in Canada.Quote from: "Real Woman"
Say what you want about Canadian refugee laws, they are still far less fucked than the American justice system.
RW, I find it fucked that any country on earth would even consider this fraud a refugee. Her case should not even have been considered for application.
In case you haven't figured it out, our current overly generous refugee system rubs me the wrong fucking way. :x
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: Obvious Li on May 24, 2014, 07:22:05 AM
Post by: Obvious Li on May 24, 2014, 07:22:05 AM
You two still arguing the particulars of this case? The real issue is Canada's lax refugee system that allows gaming by the likes of this old Florida pedophile. Tighten up the rules and a lot further than the tweaking the Tories have done. Start getting the word out that Canada will NOT be a pushover for scammers. This twat may be small potatoes, but hey you gotta start some where. Fuck this sick old white bitch, send her the fuck home.Quote from: "Shen Li"
this is why i love you princess......... :oops:
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: Obvious Li on May 24, 2014, 07:25:38 AM
Post by: Obvious Li on May 24, 2014, 07:25:38 AM
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: Chickenfeets on May 24, 2014, 08:47:00 AM
Post by: Chickenfeets on May 24, 2014, 08:47:00 AM
I'm not going to fly off the handle and make ignorant statements because I am not intimate with the facts of the case.Quote from: "Renee"
Probably a
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: Anonymous on May 24, 2014, 12:20:09 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 24, 2014, 12:20:09 PM
however her sentence is still insanely disproportionate for the crime committed....simply put, it meets and exceeds the cruel and unusual punishment benchmark used to determine refugee claims in Canuckistan.......... i still think her even being charged is ridiculousQuote from: "Obvious Li"
I doubt this old pedophile was what the UN had in mind when they speak of refugees. The people fleeing civil war in Syria, yes. Old white American ladies who fancy teenage boys,
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: RW on May 24, 2014, 12:44:55 PM
Post by: RW on May 24, 2014, 12:44:55 PM
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: Anonymous on May 24, 2014, 12:52:50 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 24, 2014, 12:52:50 PM
I'm not saying she should stay but the US still needs to get a fucking grip with their legal bullshit.Quote from: "Real Woman"
We are arguing two different things RW. I don't give a flying fuck about strict laws in foreign countries, whether it be the US or Singapore. I am tired of people who could never be accepted as legal permanent residents using our lax refugee rules as a backdoor into Canada. It's a fucking insult to those of us who came here as REAL immigrants. That is the issue for me, not this stupid Florida bitch.
OL,
You appear to be softening and this has me concerned. :?
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: RW on May 24, 2014, 02:39:16 PM
Post by: RW on May 24, 2014, 02:39:16 PM
I can't condone US retardation that burdens our immigration system.
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: Obvious Li on May 24, 2014, 06:58:44 PM
Post by: Obvious Li on May 24, 2014, 06:58:44 PM
I'm not saying she should stay but the US still needs to get a fucking grip with their legal bullshit.Quote from: "Real Woman"
We are arguing two different things RW. I don't give a flying fuck about strict laws in foreign countries, whether it be the US or Singapore. I am tired of people who could never be accepted as legal permanent residents using our lax refugee rules as a backdoor into Canada. It's a fucking insult to those of us who came here as REAL immigrants. That is the issue for me, not this stupid Florida bitch.
OL,
You appear to be softening and this has me concerned. :?
i'm as hard as fucking nails sweetheart.....and sweet as fucking sugar.......like always.. :ugeek:
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: Anonymous on May 25, 2014, 03:20:13 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 25, 2014, 03:20:13 PM
No we aren't because I agree with you regarding her admission into Canada, however, I object to the underlying sentence that gave this woman a basis for argument for an application in the first place.Quote from: "Real Woman"
I can't condone US retardation that burdens our immigration system.
The US state of Florida is still a democracy last time I checked. If she doesn't like their diddling laws then she should vote in Barney Frank types who will change their current pedo laws. Anyway, none of this is our our problem. We need a refuge policy in place that excludes ALL Americans, Europeans, South Koreans and Israelis.
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: Anonymous on May 26, 2014, 02:38:22 AM
Post by: Anonymous on May 26, 2014, 02:38:22 AM
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: Obvious Li on May 26, 2014, 05:24:28 AM
Post by: Obvious Li on May 26, 2014, 05:24:28 AM
I agree with Real Woman that the punishment in this case is extreme. Then again, Korea has harsh penalties by Canadian standards for narcotic offenses. Should we accept convicted drug criminals from Korea as refugees because their punishments are considered severe compared to Canada? It's something to think about.Quote from: "seoulbro"
agreed, insomuch as it is my considered opinion that neither drug "offenses" nor consensual sex require jail time....that form of punishment should be reserved for violent crimes against person and property..... everything else should be dealt with at the state or community level....... :ugeek:
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: RW on May 26, 2014, 09:55:46 AM
Post by: RW on May 26, 2014, 09:55:46 AM
Either way, I don't want Canada to be an asylum for American escaping judicial ridiculousness.
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: Anonymous on May 26, 2014, 12:16:22 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 26, 2014, 12:16:22 PM
Seoul, I think part of the argument for this case stems from the fact that what she did isn't a crime here.Quote from: "Real Woman"
Either way, I don't want Canada to be an asylum for American escaping judicial ridiculousness.
It is ridiculous, few would question that. But, I don't know if something is a crime in another country and not in Canada should automatically entitle one to refugee status. Adultery is technically a crime in Korea. If a Korean District Attorney decided to prosecute someone on that charge should Canada admit such individuals? Do you see where I am going with this?
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: RW on May 26, 2014, 12:51:22 PM
Post by: RW on May 26, 2014, 12:51:22 PM
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: Anonymous on May 26, 2014, 02:02:29 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 26, 2014, 02:02:29 PM
No, I'm not saying just because something is not illegal in Canada it should make for automatic admission. I think it makes for an easier argument though. Like if adultery vets a capital punishment sentence, it makes it easier to make a claim as that person would not be a criminal in the eyes of Canadian law.Quote from: "Real Woman"
Korea still has capital punishment on the books, but doesn't carry them out anymore. This woman isn't facing capital punishment though. She faces a lengthy prison sentence if convicted. If harsh prison sentences for crimes which are not illegal here are going to be the criteria, then most of the world would qualify for admission to Canada as refugees. I agree the laws about rape in Florida are ridiculous though.
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: RW on May 26, 2014, 02:05:49 PM
Post by: RW on May 26, 2014, 02:05:49 PM
I don't think the criteria should be what is legal or illegal in Canada but I don't think it hurts an applicant's case if it is legal here.
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: Anonymous on May 26, 2014, 02:53:24 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 26, 2014, 02:53:24 PM
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: Obvious Li on May 26, 2014, 06:52:56 PM
Post by: Obvious Li on May 26, 2014, 06:52:56 PM
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: Anonymous on May 26, 2014, 07:13:43 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 26, 2014, 07:13:43 PM
listen....we accept Homero's gay friends just because they are gay....we welcome and accept aids patients as refugees and pay 100% of their health care....so the system is already broken and busted.....taking in this couger isn't going to break it any more.....the US justice system is totally fucked up....example #1..Quote from: "Obvious Li"the way Conrad Black was treated was a crime against humanity...the prosecutors and the judge should be jailed themselves...... :ugeek:
Oh I agree handsome, but the US justice system is not our problem and the USA despite all it's problems is NOT a supplier of refuges. End of fucking story.
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: RW on May 26, 2014, 07:42:50 PM
Post by: RW on May 26, 2014, 07:42:50 PM
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: Anonymous on May 26, 2014, 07:51:45 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 26, 2014, 07:51:45 PM
Nor should they ever be Shen.Quote from: "Real Woman"
We are talking about how the USA has stupid laws, but accept refugees from countries in the EU, USA, Israel and South Korea. That's just nuts.
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: RW on May 26, 2014, 08:01:12 PM
Post by: RW on May 26, 2014, 08:01:12 PM
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: Obvious Li on May 26, 2014, 09:10:08 PM
Post by: Obvious Li on May 26, 2014, 09:10:08 PM
Yeah but we expect better from the US.Quote from: "Real Woman"
why would we ????...they are governed by imbeciles,community organizers and rich ner-do-wells.....the US political system is about as bad a system as you can devise.....electoral college votes....no sane person could have thought up that brainwave.......electing people based on their skin color.....fucking hell.....92% return of incumbents....fucking hell....senators in their 80's and 90's......fucking hell....led by a military industrial complex...fucking hell........ :ugeek:
Title: Re: What say about his situation.....
Post by: Anonymous on May 28, 2014, 02:44:10 AM
Post by: Anonymous on May 28, 2014, 02:44:10 AM
Yeah but we expect better from the US.Quote from: "Real Woman"
why would we ????...they are governed by imbeciles,community organizers and rich ner-do-wells.....the US political system is about as bad a system as you can devise.....electoral college votes....no sane person could have thought up that brainwave.......electing people based on their skin color.....fucking hell.....92% return of incumbents....fucking hell....senators in their 80's and 90's......fucking hell....led by a military industrial complex...fucking hell........ :ugeek:
It has some quirks to it. It all revolves around raising obscene amounts of money too.
I like citizen initiatives on ballots though. It can encourage unsavoury agendas, but it is still the will of the people in action.