They are making THIS case about a desire to be treated equal as if they are being denied entry to a restaurant, movie, hospital etc etc?
when in fact a person is merely trying to avoid being conscripted into a service that violates their own conscience
If that's the way the business owner feels let them move on with their life and a smaller customer base and you move on with yours
why is this so difficult a concept for libtards to grasp?
https://www.foxnews.com/media/liberal-theory-trying-dismiss-supreme-court-win-christian-graphic-designer-shot-down-legal-experts
Quote from: "Biggie Smiles" post_id=505348 time=1688565390 user_id=3214
They are making THIS case about a desire to be treated equal as if they are being denied entry to a restaurant, movie, hospital etc etc?
when in fact a person is merely trying to avoid being conscripted into a service that violates their own conscience
If that's the way the business owner feels let them move on with their life and a smaller customer base and you move on with yours
why is this so difficult a concept for libtards to grasp?
https://www.foxnews.com/media/liberal-theory-trying-dismiss-supreme-court-win-christian-graphic-designer-shot-down-legal-experts
I am going to disagree with some of my conservative friends on this. Businesses cannot decide who they will or will not serve. Can organic food markets discriminate agianst me because I am a small c conservative? Or because I call out the lie of the so called climate emergency? It's a slippery slope.
Quote from: DKG post_id=505351 time=1688565939 user_id=3390
Quote from: "Biggie Smiles" post_id=505348 time=1688565390 user_id=3214
They are making THIS case about a desire to be treated equal as if they are being denied entry to a restaurant, movie, hospital etc etc?
when in fact a person is merely trying to avoid being conscripted into a service that violates their own conscience
If that's the way the business owner feels let them move on with their life and a smaller customer base and you move on with yours
why is this so difficult a concept for libtards to grasp?
https://www.foxnews.com/media/liberal-theory-trying-dismiss-supreme-court-win-christian-graphic-designer-shot-down-legal-experts
I am going to disagree with some of my conservative friends on this. Businesses cannot decide who they will or will not serve. Can organic food markets discriminate agianst me because I am a small c conservative? Or because I call out the lie of the so called climate emergency? It's a slippery slope.
while this is true in this instance and the instance of the christian baker the request infringed on their right to serve their God in a manner consistent with their faith
had this been a situation where these people were denied entry to a restaurant or grocery store etc I would have sided with them, but it's not, in this situation the owner is actually being forced to labor on a project which is in complete contradiction to their face. and THAT is where the problem lies
Quote from: "Biggie Smiles" post_id=505353 time=1688566614 user_id=3214
Quote from: DKG post_id=505351 time=1688565939 user_id=3390
I am going to disagree with some of my conservative friends on this. Businesses cannot decide who they will or will not serve. Can organic food markets discriminate agianst me because I am a small c conservative? Or because I call out the lie of the so called climate emergency? It's a slippery slope.
while this is true in this instance and the instance of the christian baker the request infringed on their right to serve their God in a manner consistent with their faith
had this been a situation where these people were denied entry to a restaurant or grocery store etc I would have sided with them, but it's not, in this situation the owner is actually being forced to labor on a project which is in complete contradiction to their face. and THAT is where the problem lies
I remember a similar case I would say about twenty five years ago in Toronto. A Christian police officer was forced to prevent pro life protesters from blocking entry to an abortion clinic. The case went to the Supreme Court of Ontario and he lost and as a result resigned from Metro Police.
I don't have details of the case you are talking about. But, it sounds like a business owner is denying service. I cannot support discrimination even though it conflicts with religious freedom guarantees under the US constitution. I know this puts me at odds with many of my fellow conservatives and I am fine with that.
Quote from: DKG post_id=505354 time=1688567273 user_id=3390
Quote from: "Biggie Smiles" post_id=505353 time=1688566614 user_id=3214
while this is true in this instance and the instance of the christian baker the request infringed on their right to serve their God in a manner consistent with their faith
had this been a situation where these people were denied entry to a restaurant or grocery store etc I would have sided with them, but it's not, in this situation the owner is actually being forced to labor on a project which is in complete contradiction to their face. and THAT is where the problem lies
I remember a similar case I would say about twenty five years ago in Toronto. A Christian police officer was forced to prevent pro life protesters from blocking entry to an abortion clinic. The case went to the Supreme Court of Ontario and he lost and as a result resigned from Metro Police.
I don't have details of the case you are talking about. But, it sounds like a business owner is denying service. I cannot support discrimination even though it conflicts with religious freedom guarantees under the US constitution. I know this puts me at odds with many of my fellow conservatives and I am fine with that.
In that instance the police officer was in the wrong and the ruling in my opinion was sound. Blocking entry to a particular place and restraining ones movement bundles a host of crimes and it is the duty of the officer to rectify the situation, even if he believes in what the protestors are doing.
But in this instance a person is merely refusing to invoke their God given talents in a manner inconsistent with their faith. They are not in any way discriminating.
especially not in the case of the Christian baker who refused to design a wedding cake depicting two men getting married. He was willing to sell them any other goods and services in his store but could not bring himself design the cake. Making him do so just to remain gainfully employed is tantamount to slavery and is itself discrimination. Fighting discrimination with discrimination is not the answer. Respecting a person's individuality even if you don't agree with it is.
Quote from: DKG post_id=505351 time=1688565939 user_id=3390
Quote from: "Biggie Smiles" post_id=505348 time=1688565390 user_id=3214
They are making THIS case about a desire to be treated equal as if they are being denied entry to a restaurant, movie, hospital etc etc?
when in fact a person is merely trying to avoid being conscripted into a service that violates their own conscience
If that's the way the business owner feels let them move on with their life and a smaller customer base and you move on with yours
why is this so difficult a concept for libtards to grasp?
https://www.foxnews.com/media/liberal-theory-trying-dismiss-supreme-court-win-christian-graphic-designer-shot-down-legal-experts
I am going to disagree with some of my conservative friends on this. Businesses cannot decide who they will or will not serve. Can organic food markets discriminate agianst me because I am a small c conservative? Or because I call out the lie of the so called climate emergency? It's a slippery slope.
They should be able to. The civil rights act should ONLY apply to government institutions. People should have the freedom to refuse service to you for whatever reason they wish as long as they are a private institution.
Quote from: "Biggie Smiles" post_id=505353 time=1688566614 user_id=3214
Quote from: DKG post_id=505351 time=1688565939 user_id=3390
I am going to disagree with some of my conservative friends on this. Businesses cannot decide who they will or will not serve. Can organic food markets discriminate agianst me because I am a small c conservative? Or because I call out the lie of the so called climate emergency? It's a slippery slope.
while this is true in this instance and the instance of the christian baker the request infringed on their right to serve their God in a manner consistent with their faith
had this been a situation where these people were denied entry to a restaurant or grocery store etc I would have sided with them, but it's not, in this situation the owner is actually being forced to labor on a project which is in complete contradiction to their face. and THAT is where the problem lies
The government is hell bent on forcing people to respect things that are vile and amoral so discrimination of all forms is rearing its head again. Personally, I dont think the union can be saved.
Private businesses should have been left alone to post their "whites only" signs until the next generation came along and took them down voluntarily. Shaming and protesting are both better ways to bring about change.
Quote from: DKG post_id=505354 time=1688567273 user_id=3390
Quote from: "Biggie Smiles" post_id=505353 time=1688566614 user_id=3214
while this is true in this instance and the instance of the christian baker the request infringed on their right to serve their God in a manner consistent with their faith
had this been a situation where these people were denied entry to a restaurant or grocery store etc I would have sided with them, but it's not, in this situation the owner is actually being forced to labor on a project which is in complete contradiction to their face. and THAT is where the problem lies
I remember a similar case I would say about twenty five years ago in Toronto. A Christian police officer was forced to prevent pro life protesters from blocking entry to an abortion clinic. The case went to the Supreme Court of Ontario and he lost and as a result resigned from Metro Police.
I don't have details of the case you are talking about. But, it sounds like a business owner is denying service. I cannot support discrimination even though it conflicts with religious freedom guarantees under the US constitution. I know this puts me at odds with many of my fellow conservatives and I am fine with that.
In America, denying people their Constitutional right to free travel is a crime.
Using the heavy hand of government to eliminate a private persons discrimination only balkanizes society. Thats what we have now.
Quote from: Lokmar post_id=505364 time=1688575152 user_id=3351
Quote from: DKG post_id=505351 time=1688565939 user_id=3390
I am going to disagree with some of my conservative friends on this. Businesses cannot decide who they will or will not serve. Can organic food markets discriminate agianst me because I am a small c conservative? Or because I call out the lie of the so called climate emergency? It's a slippery slope.
They should be able to. The civil rights act should ONLY apply to government institutions. People should have the freedom to refuse service to you for whatever reason they wish as long as they are a private institution.
exactly... 100%
I shouldn't be forced to cater to someone I don't like.
Quote from: Lokmar post_id=505366 time=1688575622 user_id=3351
Quote from: "Biggie Smiles" post_id=505353 time=1688566614 user_id=3214
while this is true in this instance and the instance of the christian baker the request infringed on their right to serve their God in a manner consistent with their faith
had this been a situation where these people were denied entry to a restaurant or grocery store etc I would have sided with them, but it's not, in this situation the owner is actually being forced to labor on a project which is in complete contradiction to their face. and THAT is where the problem lies
The government is hell bent on forcing people to respect things that are vile and amoral so discrimination of all forms is rearing its head again. Personally, I dont think the union can be saved.
Private businesses should have been left alone to post their "whites only" signs until the next generation came along and took them down voluntarily. Shaming and protesting are both better ways to bring about change.
I've been saying for a long time that America was on an upward trajectory in regards to racism and discrimination UNTIL, IRONICALLY, we elected the first black president. TWICE. We had racism, true. But things were NOWHERE near what obama and that fucking manly ogre were pontificating about.
and that's fucking shameful. Obama should be ashamed of his vile actions furthering and nurturing the idea of this "systemic racism" that no leftist can either explain or provide examples of. That man could have been an instrument of positive change, but instead he enriched himself, promoted a false legacy and left his people in places like Baltimore & Chicago to rot in squalor. 8 fucking years of democrat leadership from the presidency on down to the local school board and not a single black person living in poverty in either of those two places received an iota of genuine help from either his administration or the leftist vermin local leadership they continued voted in during that time.
NOw, there is no longer any hope. America is going to look DRASTICALLY different than it does now inside of 20 years and there isn't a single president who can reverse that course, sadly.
Quote from: "Biggie Smiles" post_id=505371 time=1688578253 user_id=3214
Quote from: Lokmar post_id=505366 time=1688575622 user_id=3351
The government is hell bent on forcing people to respect things that are vile and amoral so discrimination of all forms is rearing its head again. Personally, I dont think the union can be saved.
Private businesses should have been left alone to post their "whites only" signs until the next generation came along and took them down voluntarily. Shaming and protesting are both better ways to bring about change.
I've been saying for a long time that America was on an upward trajectory in regards to racism and discrimination UNTIL, IRONICALLY, we elected the first black president. TWICE. We had racism, true. But things were NOWHERE near what obama and that fucking manly ogre were pontificating about.
and that's fucking shameful. Obama should be ashamed of his vile actions furthering and nurturing the idea of this "systemic racism" that no leftist can either explain or provide examples of. That man could have been an instrument of positive change, but instead he enriched himself, promoted a false legacy and left his people in places like Baltimore & Chicago to rot in squalor. 8 fucking years of democrat leadership from the presidency on down to the local school board and not a single black person living in poverty in either of those two places received an iota of genuine help from either his administration or the leftist vermin local leadership they continued voted in during that time.
NOw, there is no longer any hope. America is going to look DRASTICALLY different than it does now inside of 20 years and there isn't a single president who can reverse that course, sadly.
Obama squandered an incredible opportunity.
Quote from: "Biggie Smiles" post_id=505357 time=1688570167 user_id=3214
Quote from: DKG post_id=505354 time=1688567273 user_id=3390
I remember a similar case I would say about twenty five years ago in Toronto. A Christian police officer was forced to prevent pro life protesters from blocking entry to an abortion clinic. The case went to the Supreme Court of Ontario and he lost and as a result resigned from Metro Police.
I don't have details of the case you are talking about. But, it sounds like a business owner is denying service. I cannot support discrimination even though it conflicts with religious freedom guarantees under the US constitution. I know this puts me at odds with many of my fellow conservatives and I am fine with that.
In that instance the police officer was in the wrong and the ruling in my opinion was sound. Blocking entry to a particular place and restraining ones movement bundles a host of crimes and it is the duty of the officer to rectify the situation, even if he believes in what the protestors are doing.
But in this instance a person is merely refusing to invoke their God given talents in a manner inconsistent with their faith. They are not in any way discriminating.
especially not in the case of the Christian baker who refused to design a wedding cake depicting two men getting married. He was willing to sell them any other goods and services in his store but could not bring himself design the cake. Making him do so just to remain gainfully employed is tantamount to slavery and is itself discrimination. Fighting discrimination with discrimination is not the answer. Respecting a person's individuality even if you don't agree with it is.
Personally, I think it's ridiculous the baker refusing to make a cake with two men on it the mountain he or she chose to die on. But, the baker would not have faced the same backlash had he or she refused to make a pornographic cake
Quote from: DKG post_id=505406 time=1688590265 user_id=3390
Quote from: "Biggie Smiles" post_id=505357 time=1688570167 user_id=3214
In that instance the police officer was in the wrong and the ruling in my opinion was sound. Blocking entry to a particular place and restraining ones movement bundles a host of crimes and it is the duty of the officer to rectify the situation, even if he believes in what the protestors are doing.
But in this instance a person is merely refusing to invoke their God given talents in a manner inconsistent with their faith. They are not in any way discriminating.
especially not in the case of the Christian baker who refused to design a wedding cake depicting two men getting married. He was willing to sell them any other goods and services in his store but could not bring himself design the cake. Making him do so just to remain gainfully employed is tantamount to slavery and is itself discrimination. Fighting discrimination with discrimination is not the answer. Respecting a person's individuality even if you don't agree with it is.
Personally, I think it's ridiculous the baker refusing to make a cake with two men on it the mountain he or she chose to die on. But, the baker would not have faced the same backlash had he or she refused to make a pornographic cake
A person's religious belief's are their religious belief's and should be respected, no matter how odd they seem to the rest of us. That is what liberty is all about
after all, was it not a simple request Nebuchadnezzar demanded out of the three Hebrews which ultimately landed them in a burning oven as a punishment?
Daniel 3:8-12
Quote from: DKG post_id=505406 time=1688590265 user_id=3390
Personally, I think it's ridiculous the baker refusing to make a cake with two men on it the mountain he or she chose to die on. But, the baker would not have faced the same backlash had he or she refused to make a pornographic cake
The real issue is that businesses need to tread carefully. So let's say you called me and wanted some gravel delivered. I get there with the truck, and I find that you're getting your ass hammered by your boyfriends penis right in the driveway.
Perhaps I don't like to watch you doing that, so I dump your gravel, only bill you for work performed, and don't come back with another load of gravel. I don't have to give you a reason as to why I won't return with the second load of gravel. Nothing forces me to continue hauling gravel into your driveway while you're getting boned hard by boyfriend.
Of course, I would never state to the customer the real reason. I'd just say that I can't deliver any more gravel, and you'll have to find someone else.
Quote from: DKG post_id=505351 time=1688565939 user_id=3390
Quote from: "Biggie Smiles" post_id=505348 time=1688565390 user_id=3214
They are making THIS case about a desire to be treated equal as if they are being denied entry to a restaurant, movie, hospital etc etc?
when in fact a person is merely trying to avoid being conscripted into a service that violates their own conscience
If that's the way the business owner feels let them move on with their life and a smaller customer base and you move on with yours
why is this so difficult a concept for libtards to grasp?
https://www.foxnews.com/media/liberal-theory-trying-dismiss-supreme-court-win-christian-graphic-designer-shot-down-legal-experts
I am going to disagree with some of my conservative friends on this. Businesses cannot decide who they will or will not serve. Can organic food markets discriminate agianst me because I am a small c conservative? Or because I call out the lie of the so called climate emergency? It's a slippery slope.
That aint an apples to apples comparison.
Quote from: "Melson Gibson" post_id=505414 time=1688597423 user_id=3397
Quote from: DKG post_id=505406 time=1688590265 user_id=3390
Personally, I think it's ridiculous the baker refusing to make a cake with two men on it the mountain he or she chose to die on. But, the baker would not have faced the same backlash had he or she refused to make a pornographic cake
The real issue is that businesses need to tread carefully. So let's say you called me and wanted some gravel delivered. I get there with the truck, and I find that you're getting your ass hammered by your boyfriends penis right in the driveway.
Perhaps I don't like to watch you doing that, so I dump your gravel, only bill you for work performed, and don't come back with another load of gravel. I don't have to give you a reason as to why I won't return with the second load of gravel. Nothing forces me to continue hauling gravel into your driveway while you're getting boned hard by boyfriend.
Of course, I would never state to the customer the real reason. I'd just say that I can't deliver any more gravel, and you'll have to find someone else.
We did something similar in NY with job applicants. It's illegal in NY to say anything negative about a former employee during a reference/work history check. Even if the guy/girl was an absolute fucking waste of life.
so we'd basically say " I am not at liberty to discuss this person's work history here'
it was well understood that this actually meant.. don't hire this piece of shit unless you want the same problems I used to have.
Quote from: "Melson Gibson" post_id=505414 time=1688597423 user_id=3397
Quote from: DKG post_id=505406 time=1688590265 user_id=3390
Personally, I think it's ridiculous the baker refusing to make a cake with two men on it the mountain he or she chose to die on. But, the baker would not have faced the same backlash had he or she refused to make a pornographic cake
The real issue is that businesses need to tread carefully. So let's say you called me and wanted some gravel delivered. I get there with the truck, and I find that you're getting your ass hammered by your boyfriends penis right in the driveway.
Perhaps I don't like to watch you doing that, so I dump your gravel, only bill you for work performed, and don't come back with another load of gravel. I don't have to give you a reason as to why I won't return with the second load of gravel. Nothing forces me to continue hauling gravel into your driveway while you're getting boned hard by boyfriend.
Of course, I would never state to the customer the real reason. I'd just say that I can't deliver any more gravel, and you'll have to find someone else.
I say you should be free to say how disgusted you are by that and refuse to deliver anything, period. Ever.
Quote from: Lokmar post_id=505436 time=1688610843 user_id=3351
I say you should be free to say how disgusted you are by that and refuse to deliver anything, period. Ever.
In the good old days you certainly could, but today if I told them I can't deliver to homosexuals, they'd probably try to cancel me, post my name and number online, and then I'd have to deal with a bunch of angry fags phoning me.
It's often best not to say anything except "I can't continue this job" without giving a reason.
Arizona Attorney General Kris Mayes (D) is openly defying a recent Supreme Court ruling.
After the Supreme Court ruled that Colorado cannot compel business owners to make expressive speech that violates their religious beliefs, Mayes issued a statement saying Arizona's public accommodation law, which is similar to Colorado's, will still be enforced.
Quote from: Lokmar post_id=505364 time=1688575152 user_id=3351
Quote from: DKG post_id=505351 time=1688565939 user_id=3390
I am going to disagree with some of my conservative friends on this. Businesses cannot decide who they will or will not serve. Can organic food markets discriminate agianst me because I am a small c conservative? Or because I call out the lie of the so called climate emergency? It's a slippery slope.
They should be able to. The civil rights act should ONLY apply to government institutions. People should have the freedom to refuse service to you for whatever reason they wish as long as they are a private institution.
Yep this is my position.
Quote from: Dove post_id=505912 time=1688824249 user_id=3266
Quote from: Lokmar post_id=505364 time=1688575152 user_id=3351
They should be able to. The civil rights act should ONLY apply to government institutions. People should have the freedom to refuse service to you for whatever reason they wish as long as they are a private institution.
Yep this is my position.
My position has not changed. I disagree with some of my fellow conservatives on the issue of refusing service. That should only be if someone represents a danger to the proprietor's health or safety.
In a free society a privately held institution should be allowed to refuse service for any reason they wish. Unless they are subsidized in any shape or form (including tax exemption) by federal tax dollars. Then all bets are off.
Hell, I despise racists but would support upholding the right of a business owner to refuse service to a person based on the color of their skin. I think that business owner is a piece of shit lowlife and would hope that his business is boycotted into bankruptcy but the federal government has no right whatsoever to tell him to do with his property, intellectual or otherwise.
Hell, we live in a society where the government ain't saying jack shit to banking institutions who are refusing to open accounts for conservatives but wants to conscript a Christian to use his talents to promote man on man anal drilling? Nah.. that shit ain't cool at all.
Quote from: "Biggie Smiles" post_id=505944 time=1688831149 user_id=3214
In a free society a privately held institution should be allowed to refuse service for any reason they wish. Unless they are subsidized in any shape or form (including tax exemption) by federal tax dollars. Then all bets are off.
Hell, I despise racists but would support upholding the right of a business owner to refuse service to a person based on the color of their skin. I think that business owner is a piece of shit lowlife and would hope that his business is boycotted into bankruptcy but the federal government has no right whatsoever to tell him to do with his property, intellectual or otherwise.
Hell, we live in a society where the government ain't saying jack shit to banking institutions who are refusing to open accounts for conservatives but wants to conscript a Christian to use his talents to promote man on man anal drilling? Nah.. that shit ain't cool at all.
I cannot go along with this.
Quote from: DKG post_id=505946 time=1688831400 user_id=3390
Quote from: "Biggie Smiles" post_id=505944 time=1688831149 user_id=3214
In a free society a privately held institution should be allowed to refuse service for any reason they wish. Unless they are subsidized in any shape or form (including tax exemption) by federal tax dollars. Then all bets are off.
Hell, I despise racists but would support upholding the right of a business owner to refuse service to a person based on the color of their skin. I think that business owner is a piece of shit lowlife and would hope that his business is boycotted into bankruptcy but the federal government has no right whatsoever to tell him to do with his property, intellectual or otherwise.
Hell, we live in a society where the government ain't saying jack shit to banking institutions who are refusing to open accounts for conservatives but wants to conscript a Christian to use his talents to promote man on man anal drilling? Nah.. that shit ain't cool at all.
I cannot go along with this.
what is your reasoning for that. Government overreach, especially when it is inconsistently applied, is never a good thing.
boycotting has a far greater impact in promoting the will of the people without the overly broad latitude afforded to corrupt government
hell, see anheuser busch for details
Quote from: "Biggie Smiles" post_id=505950 time=1688831690 user_id=3214
Quote from: DKG post_id=505946 time=1688831400 user_id=3390
I cannot go along with this.
what is your reasoning for that. Government overreach, especially when it is inconsistently applied, is never a good thing.
boycotting has a far greater impact in promoting the will of the people without the overly broad latitude afforded to corrupt government
hell, see anheuser busch for details
For a multicultural society to fucntion there cannot be overt discrimination. The only legitimate reasons to disciminate if if a client has a past history of not paying, health/hygiene, or they are overly aggressive/threatening. Discrimination because of race, gender identity, politics. should have repercussions for the proprietor.
Biggie, I meant to quote your post, but I instead I pressed edit. My post looked like you posted it.
I hate to ask, but can you post that again. I will not screw it up this time.
I forgot what I wrote
lol
Quote from: DKG post_id=505939 time=1688830657 user_id=3390
Quote from: Dove post_id=505912 time=1688824249 user_id=3266
Yep this is my position.
My position has not changed. I disagree with some of my fellow conservatives on the issue of refusing service. That should only be if someone represents a danger to the proprietor's health or safety.
But you believe in a free market.....I don't see how the government forcing private business owners to cater events they don't want their business associated with is free. That's slavery and now the government runs your business.
Providing a service by opening your own business shouldn't make you public property.
Quote from: "Biggie Smiles" post_id=505970 time=1688834716 user_id=3214
I forgot what I wrote
lol
I am really sorry about that. This is the first time I have ever had edit privileges. Edit is on the left and quote is on the right. I do not know what ever possessed me to go to the left. Only bad things are on the left. :laugh3:
Quote from: Dove post_id=505972 time=1688834827 user_id=3266
Quote from: DKG post_id=505939 time=1688830657 user_id=3390
My position has not changed. I disagree with some of my fellow conservatives on the issue of refusing service. That should only be if someone represents a danger to the proprietor's health or safety.
But you believe in a free market.....I don't see how the government forcing private business owners to cater events they don't want their business associated with is free. That's slavery and now the government runs your business.
I just screwed up here Dove. I responded to a post by Biggie, but I accidentally pressed edit instead of quote. I addressed what you are saying.
Quote from: DKG post_id=505973 time=1688834854 user_id=3390
Quote from: "Biggie Smiles" post_id=505970 time=1688834716 user_id=3214
I forgot what I wrote
lol
I am really sorry about that. This is the first time I have ever had edit privileges. Edit is on the left and quote is on the right. I do not know what ever possessed me to go to the left. Only bad things are on the left. :laugh3:
No worries. I've done that several times myself
Quote from: Dove post_id=505972 time=1688834827 user_id=3266
Quote from: DKG post_id=505939 time=1688830657 user_id=3390
My position has not changed. I disagree with some of my fellow conservatives on the issue of refusing service. That should only be if someone represents a danger to the proprietor's health or safety.
But you believe in a free market.....I don't see how the government forcing private business owners to cater events they don't want their business associated with is free. That's slavery and now the government runs your business.
Providing a service by opening your own business shouldn't make you public property.
exactly... do me it's no different than telling me who I should or should not let into my own home
Quote from: DKG post_id=505976 time=1688834953 user_id=3390
Quote from: Dove post_id=505972 time=1688834827 user_id=3266
But you believe in a free market.....I don't see how the government forcing private business owners to cater events they don't want their business associated with is free. That's slavery and now the government runs your business.
I just screwed up here Dove. I responded to a post by Biggie, but I accidentally pressed edit instead of quote. I addressed what you are saying.
It happens :laugh3:
I am late for golf, but before I go, I will kind of summarize with an example what I screwed up earlier.
Day to day commerce and morals/politcs should always be separate. Could you imagine if I lived in a small town in a purple state and there was only one on call electrician. But, he or she is a leftist and refuses to serve fiscal hawks like me even though my power is out and I am desperate. This is not how a functioning society should work.
Happy Saturday people. Eighteen holes and then cold ale awaits me.
Quote from: DKG post_id=505990 time=1688836036 user_id=3390
I am late for golf, but before I go, I will kind of summarize with an example what I screwed up earlier.
Day to day commerce and morals/politcs should always be separate. Could you imagine if I lived in a small town in a purple state and there was only one on call electrician. But, he or she is a leftist and refuses to serve fiscal hawks like me even though my power is out and I am desperate. This is not how a functioning society should work.
Happy Saturday people. Eighteen holes and then cold ale awaits me.
That's different tho.. you being a fiscal hawk in no way infringes on his personal liberties and in such a case where the outcome can be fatal there should be a higher standard.
For example. My premise does not hold true for an emergency room doctor or nurse in a privately owned hospital who refuses service to a wounded black person, homosexual etc etc... the color of their skin or sexual orientation does not in any way infringe on the rights of the staff and the service is a life saving/important one so they should be held to a standard where it is unacceptable to deny service based on personal view.
Same holds true with your electrician example. A power outage can be life threatening depending on a variety of factors and unless you are in your home prancing around butt naked with a dildo up your ass or doing a satanic ritual inside that electrician should be forced, under whatever penalty is applicable, to provide you with the much needed service.
but baking a wedding cake or designing a website in no way leaves a person in a vulnerable state and forcing those persons to use their God given talents in a manner inconsistent with their personal beliefs is a travesty of justice and a grievous infringement on their personal liberties
I remember in Guangzhou seeing signs at nightclubs saying "NO Black Man" allowed. GZ has a large African population. We Chinks are such xenophobes.
Quote from: "Shen Li" post_id=506042 time=1688848489 user_id=3389
I remember in Guangzhou seeing signs at nightclubs saying "NO Black Man" allowed. GZ has a large African population. We Chinks are such xenophobes.
Chinks haven't had propaganda shoved down their throats 24/7 telling them to hate themselves, but to adore every other race, like White people have.
Quote from: "Biggie Smiles" post_id=505944 time=1688831149 user_id=3214
In a free society a privately held institution should be allowed to refuse service for any reason they wish. Unless they are subsidized in any shape or form (including tax exemption) by federal tax dollars. Then all bets are off.
Hell, I despise racists but would support upholding the right of a business owner to refuse service to a person based on the color of their skin. I think that business owner is a piece of shit lowlife and would hope that his business is boycotted into bankruptcy but the federal government has no right whatsoever to tell him to do with his property, intellectual or otherwise.
Hell, we live in a society where the government ain't saying jack shit to banking institutions who are refusing to open accounts for conservatives but wants to conscript a Christian to use his talents to promote man on man anal drilling? Nah.. that shit ain't cool at all.
^^^THIS X 10,000!
Quote from: DKG post_id=505990 time=1688836036 user_id=3390
I am late for golf, but before I go, I will kind of summarize with an example what I screwed up earlier.
Day to day commerce and morals/politcs should always be separate. Could you imagine if I lived in a small town in a purple state and there was only one on call electrician. But, he or she is a leftist and refuses to serve fiscal hawks like me even though my power is out and I am desperate. This is not how a functioning society should work.
Happy Saturday people. Eighteen holes and then cold ale awaits me.
Too bad. Do your own electrical work or move.
In real world practice, your philosophy has resulted in courts in North America ruling that drag kweirdos can groom the fuck outta kids, a burly dude like the one at a truck repair shop in Bloomington, IL can paint his nails and wear a fucking dress to do his job, and people get sued into oblivion if they dont cater to all kinds of sick perversion. If the left had their way, the government would subsidize InBev through this kweirdo beer boycott.
That forced tolerance shit WILL erupt into mass casualties. Just wait and see.
One hell of a thread so far. It reminds me of thread years ago where it appeared the Seoul brother turned into a frickin snowflake.
Quote from: Dove post_id=505912 time=1688824249 user_id=3266
Quote from: Lokmar post_id=505364 time=1688575152 user_id=3351
They should be able to. The civil rights act should ONLY apply to government institutions. People should have the freedom to refuse service to you for whatever reason they wish as long as they are a private institution.
Yep this is my position.
:thumbup:
The free market and shaming works shit out!
Quote from: Herman post_id=506065 time=1688856465 user_id=3396
One hell of a thread so far. It reminds me of thread years ago where it appeared the Seoul brother turned into a frickin snowflake.
Let's be clear, I am a conservative. I am not a right winger. I like small government and liberty and that includes liberty for people who's views and lifestyles are at odds with my own.
Quote from: DKG post_id=506122 time=1688917070 user_id=3390
Quote from: Herman post_id=506065 time=1688856465 user_id=3396
One hell of a thread so far. It reminds me of thread years ago where it appeared the Seoul brother turned into a frickin snowflake.
Let's be clear, I am a conservative. I am not a right winger. I like small government and liberty and that includes liberty for people who's views and lifestyles are at odds with my own.
Huh, whatever.
ac_toofunny
Quote from: Frood post_id=506193 time=1688929221 user_id=1676
Sometimes I think the owner here deliberately takes contrarian positions. I know he likes to argue.
Quote from: Herman post_id=506200 time=1688929753 user_id=3396
Quote from: Frood post_id=506193 time=1688929221 user_id=1676
Sometimes I think the owner here deliberately takes contrarian positions. I know he likes to argue.
I do not play devil's advocate.