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General Discussion => The Flea Trap => Topic started by: Obvious Li on October 20, 2014, 05:35:03 AM

Title: This is sad...real fucking sad.
Post by: Obvious Li on October 20, 2014, 05:35:03 AM
although for all intents and purposes the RCMP has been a joke for over 25 years...this just adds insult to injury...... ac_lmfao  ac_lmfao





Douglas Quan, Postmedia News | October 19, 2014 | Last Updated: Oct 19 5:15 PM ET



Beginning next year, the RCMP is aiming for the first time to enrol just as many women as men in its training academy in Regina.



Some observers are skeptical whether there's enough interest among women to reach the 50% recruitment target — especially when a "masculine culture" still pervades the force.



But officials say they are determined to get the makeup of the force to be more representative of the communities they serve.



"It absolutely is ambitious. But in my position as part of this national police force I think it's important that we're a leader in employment equity hiring," said Sgt. Marlene Bzdel, director of the national recruiting policy centre.



Currently, women represent about 21% of sworn officers. Mounties want to increase that to 30% by 2025.

Sex in cruisers, lying under oath, assault, drunk driving, porn — a historic year of Mountie misconduct



The record number of RCMP disciplinary cases involving incidents from having sex in cruisers and watching porn to lying under oath and assaulting members of the public, is indicative of a wider problem with Canadian police, a criminologist said Friday.



At root, said Prof. Darryl Davies, is inadequate training, lack of accountability, and a culture of impunity among officers protected by powerful, "militant" unions.



"There's an attitude within the force — at least within some members — of a sense of entitlement, a sense that we can get away with this," Davies said.



"It's too prevalent, not just in the RCMP [but] right across Canada."





Continue reading ...



In recent weeks, the RCMP has been highlighting on its website achievements of women over the past 40 years, such as the first female bomb technician and the first female emergency response team member.



The force — which is looking to send almost 1,000 cadets through the training academy during the 2014-15 fiscal year — is rolling out targeted advertising campaigns, women-only career presentations, assistance in preparing for the RCMP fitness test, and an accelerated application process.



Karen Adams, a member of the RCMP's first all-female troop in 1974, is a little skeptical. After a 28-year career as a Mountie, she spent another 11 teaching law enforcement at MacEwan University in Edmonton. "At most," she said, one-fifth of her students were women.

While the force should be pushing for more diversity, Adams worries about pushing it too far.



"I think there needs to be a push, but not to the point where it's unnatural — to where society doesn't want or demand it or where young Canadians say we don't want to be in that field."



She also worries that standards for women will be lowered.



The RCMP was unable to say what percentage of its applicants are men versus women. Officials have previously said that the labour market availability of women interested in policing is about 27%.



Officials, however, insist that recruitment standards between women and men are the same and will remain so.



"Our target of 50% women (enrolment in the training academy) is a benchmark and not a quota," Bzdel said. "Merit is important and the people we hire need to be qualified by our standards."



The force's female pioneers faced a lot of hostility from their male counterparts in those early days, Adams recalled. One male instructor walked into the classroom on the first day, slammed the door, and said to the female cadets: "What the f* are you doing here?"



For a time, Adams was the only female Mountie in northern Manitoba. During one promotion party, a male Mountie grabbed her buttocks. She spun around and told him if he ever did that again, she would kill him.



"In my early postings, I had to depend on myself to deal with those situations by letting them know it wasn't acceptable."



Problems persist, according to a proposed class-action lawsuit that alleges systemic discrimination and harassment within the force, now has more than 300 complainants.

Related



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    'This was a cry for help': Senior officer calls for RCMP to address PTSD in wake of Ron Francis' death

    Conservative government refuses to bow to 'radical' animal rights activists, orders RCMP to keep fur hats



Even if the RCMP is able to attract a lot of new women, there's still the question of whether they'll stick around, said Bonnie Reilly Schmidt, a former Mountie who recently completed her PhD dissertation at SFU on the history of women in the RCMP.



"All of them love the work. But they do not like the police culture, which is very masculine. It has been historically and continues to be," she said.



"Face it. Police work is hard enough. You don't need to have extra stress and struggles from your peers added on top of the work."



Her research found that gender-based conflicts within the force can be attributed to different policing styles. Men tend to be more physical and confrontational, whereas women tend to focus on communication.



If there's a bar fight, male officers would "rather go in and knock heads together," whereas women look for alternatives, she said.



Historically, men "insisted that women react the same way they did — whether that be in a bar fight, joking in the office, making sexual comments."



But women had no intention of being like the men. "They wanted to be themselves."



The RCMP's recruitment materials now recognize these differences, telling prospective female applicants that "women provide a unique policing perspective" and "contribute to a balanced approach to resolving problems."
Title: Re: This is sad...real fucking sad.
Post by: Anonymous on October 20, 2014, 10:11:26 AM
My brother is an RCMP officer in Manitoba..



He is very professional in his conduct..



He takes his career very seriously as I feel most Mounties do.
Title: Re: This is sad...real fucking sad.
Post by: Anonymous on October 20, 2014, 10:58:36 AM
Fuck this employment equity shit pisses me off. Hire the best fucking cops period. If they happen to be 90% men, so fucking be it I say. acc_angry
Title: Re: This is sad...real fucking sad.
Post by: Obvious Li on October 20, 2014, 08:52:58 PM
unfortunately..we are waaaayyyy beyond using common sense in public policy......we now put social engineering above public safety as a matter of course....just hope you have a back up plan when your house is being burglarized......a sad ending to a once proud and laudable quasi military organization.... ac_beating
Title: Re: This is sad...real fucking sad.
Post by: Anonymous on October 20, 2014, 10:18:34 PM
Quote from: "Obvious Li"unfortunately..we are waaaayyyy beyond using common sense in public policy......we now put social engineering above public safety as a matter of course....just hope you have a back up plan when your house is being burglarized......a sad ending to a once proud and laudable quasi military organization.... ac_beating

I think police forces can be salvaged as long as they stop this irresponsible nonsense before it starts of picking the best woman instead of the best candidate.
Title: Re: This is sad...real fucking sad.
Post by: Romero on October 20, 2014, 10:58:39 PM
Oh my goodness! The RCMP wants to increase women from 21% to 30% by 2025! The horror!



Women are 50% of the population. It is a worthy goal. It wasn't too long ago when many thought women couldn't do these kind of jobs, and apparently this thought still prevails.



It's not about picking women over a better candidate. Women still have to complete the proper training, and they do. It's about acknowledging that women are just as good for the job and should represent.
Title: Re: This is sad...real fucking sad.
Post by: Obvious Li on October 20, 2014, 11:02:11 PM
Quote from: "Romero"Oh my goodness! The RCMP wants to increase women from 21% to 30% by 2025! The horror!



Women are 50% of the population. It is a worthy goal. It wasn't too long ago when many thought women couldn't do these kind of jobs, and apparently this thought still prevails.



It's not about picking women over a better candidate. Women still have to complete the proper training, and they do. It's about acknowledging that women are just as good for the job and should represent.




you silly silly person...... ac_flower  ac_lmfao  ac_toofunny
Title: Re: This is sad...real fucking sad.
Post by: Obvious Li on October 20, 2014, 11:08:51 PM
Quote from: "Fashionista"My brother is an RCMP officer in Manitoba..



He is very professional in his conduct..



He takes his career very seriously as I feel most Mounties do.




i accept your assertions regarding your brother.....many many mounties truly do join the force with the best of intentions.......unfortunately with female mounties you have to hire three of them for every male...as one of them is either pregnant or on maternity leave...one is on stress leave.......and one is working....not  a very efficient use of the tax dollars required to fund a national police force



P.S. currently there are hundreds of female RCMP officers that have been on stress/medical leave for longer than 15 years.......great benefits plan
Title: Re: This is sad...real fucking sad.
Post by: Anonymous on October 20, 2014, 11:14:09 PM
Quote from: "Romero"Oh my goodness! The RCMP wants to increase women from 21% to 30% by 2025! The horror!



Women are 50% of the population. It is a worthy goal. It wasn't too long ago when many thought women couldn't do these kind of jobs, and apparently this thought still prevails.



It's not about picking women over a better candidate. Women still have to complete the proper training, and they do. It's about acknowledging that women are just as good for the job and should represent.

The real horror is if they put the 50% number ahead of hiring the best cops for the job. Then we will all suffer the horror of people who should never been sent to Regina in the first place enforcing our laws and protecting us.
Title: Re: This is sad...real fucking sad.
Post by: Romero on October 20, 2014, 11:43:02 PM
Quote from: "Obvious Li"P.S. currently there are hundreds of female RCMP officers that have been on stress/medical leave for longer than 15 years.......great benefits plan

You could provide a link for this, but you can't find it right now because you're making it up.



There it is right there. Too many still believe in the stereotype that women aren't as good as men. Even though the reality is our female RCMP perform exemplary.



They're actually out there protecting Canadians and Canada, not sitting at home collecting benefits.



Can you say the same?


Quote from: "Obvious Li"unfortunately with female mounties you have to hire three of them for every male...as one of them is either pregnant or on maternity leave...one is on stress leave.......and one is working....not  a very efficient use of the tax dollars required to fund a national police force

Yeah, women especially the female RCMP who risk their lives protecting you and Canada are nothing more than a bunch of tax leeching baby makers.



You're disgusting. Try telling that to any RCMP officer or any woman in your life and they'll set you straight real good.
Title: Re: This is sad...real fucking sad.
Post by: Anonymous on October 21, 2014, 12:30:47 AM
QuoteEven though the reality is our female RCMP perform exemplary.

That's because most of them were selected to go to Regina because they are the best possible candidates, not because RCMP talking heads want to achieve some arbitrary number of female applicants.
Title: Re: This is sad...real fucking sad.
Post by: Romero on October 21, 2014, 01:12:49 AM
QuoteWomen in RCMP have come a long way in 40 years



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When women first became Mounties, they received a purse to carry their gun.



They wore different uniforms from their male colleagues — with a sensible heel and a skirt.



But in 40 years, a lot has changed.



Women now serve in every facet of the RCMP. From the first troop of 32 members admitted in 1974, women now account for 21% of the RCMP's force of nearly 4,000 officers.



On May 23, 1974, the RCMP announced the Mounties would begin accepting female applicants. Sept. 18-19 of that year, the first troop of female officers arrived at an RCMP training facility in Regina, Sask., called Depot.



Women were on the job by the spring of 1975 and the culture of the RCMP began to change from a male-only organization to a place where women could wear the fabled red serge.



Since then, women have become a vital part of the force, giving their lives five times, according to the RCMP Honour Roll.



To celebrate the 40th anniversary of the first women in the RCMP, the Toronto Sun spoke with three generations of female members about their experiences as Mounties.



Karen Adams, Troop 17 — 1974-75



A member of the very first female troop of RCMP officers, Karen Adams is a trailblazer.



After studying social work and sociology at the University of Manitoba, Adams' "life-changing moment" came when the RCMP announced it would take female applicants.



"There was a lot of political pressure on the government and the RCMP to change," said Adams.



"Women weren't really that common in policing yet ... but when the opportunity arose to apply, I thought I'd throw my name in the hat and see what happened."



Before long, Adams was on her way to Depot to begin training. Depot was renovated to accommodate women with the creation of a female dorm, the removal of urinals and the installation of private showers. Despite the quick changes to the building, it took longer for men to adapt to having women in their ranks, Adams recalled.



"There was lots of gawking and looking, from the recruits right through the staff to kind of see who we were, what we were doing there."



Even with the difficulties associated with breaking down the gender barrier, Adams and her troop graduated on March 3, 1975.



She worked as the only woman in a drug enforcement unit in Winnipeg for five years and eventually became the first female instructor in the operational training unit at Depot in 1988.



She has seen the attitude of male officers change tremendously over her career.



"Women moving up through the ranks really helped, there's a greater acceptance of women in the RCMP. There was a mentality that women could not do the job ... and, of course, nowadays, we've had a female commissioner."



Adams was a troop mate of the first female commissioner, Beverley Busson. That accomplishment is remarkable considering the limited career options available in the 1970s, Adams said.



"They were not willing to move women through the ranks or to put women into management positions," she noted.



After 28 years on the force, she retired in 2002 and became a professor in the law enforcement program at MacEwan University in Edmonton.



"I'm very proud to have helped create an atmosphere in the RCMP that allowed women to accomplish what they are accomplishing today."



Michele Paradis, Troop 3 — 1985



Michele Paradis always wanted to be a Mountie.



"I think I was three or four, my dad said, 'What do you want to be when you grow up?' and I said, 'I want to be a Mountie.'"



Paradis began her career in April 1986 as the first female member to be stationed to the Fernie, B.C. detachment.



"It was a five-person detachment and my staff sergeant, terrific man, wasn't sure if I should be taking calls or making coffee ... Instead of putting three scoops of coffee in the pot, I put 12," she recalled.



"He never asked me to make coffee again and I started taking calls the next day."



The 1980s saw the first woman promoted to corporal, the first female member of the musical ride and the first female stationed to a foreign post. And Paradis was a part of that change, joining the musical ride in April 1989.



"We'd go all across and people would say, 'Oh look, there's a girl on the ride ... I thought, 'Yes, that's a unique experience.' And now it's par for the course," Paradis said.



The number of women in the ride grew from three in 1990 to eight in 1992.



She spent the majority of her career working in public affairs and communications and also spent time doing VIP protection and customs and excise work.



She received her commission in October 2013, becoming an Inspector. She is currently in charge of the VIP protection unit out of the Toronto north detachment. She has worked to protect some of the world's most powerful people including Queen Elizabeth, Pope John Paul ll and former U.S. presidents.



While the anniversary is important, Paradis is focused on the continuing contributions of woman to the Mounties.



"In some ways I'd like to celebrate that it's been 40 years, but other times I'd just like to say it's a normal day, it's what we do all the time."
Title: Re: This is sad...real fucking sad.
Post by: Romero on October 21, 2014, 01:13:14 AM
QuoteVal Brooks, Troop 28 — 1997



One of the most physically demanding jobs in the RCMP is the Emergency Response Team (ERT), and prior to 2004, no woman had ever made the cut.



Val Brooks became the first female to become an operational member of the ERT, serving on the Toronto team for four years.



"It's a tactical team with specialized training and skills employed in high-risk environments," she said.



Before she became an ERT member, Brooks was headed in a different direction.



"I was teaching high school in central Alberta for 5 1/2 years ... A few years in, I had this feeling there was something else that I wanted to do."



Brooks graduated from Depot in 1997 and served for two years in a small detachment in northern B.C. before getting into federal drug work. She has also worked in special investigations overseas and in covert operations.



The highly competitive ERT selection process is difficult for any person but can be especially difficult for women because of the physical requirements.



"I think in terms of barriers, the biggest thing was the physical standards at that time ... The old standards were very difficult, geared towards men's physiological advantages in terms of upper body strength," Brooks said.



Within the last few years, the standards have been changed to make the testing more job specific, putting less emphasis on raw physical strength. Because strength isn't everything.



"It doesn't matter if you're a guy or a gal, it's a very difficult environment to penetrate because the camaraderie is very strong because trust and respect is necessary," Brooks said.



She is just beginning a new assignment as a liaison officer in Miami.



//http://www.torontosun.com/2014/09/14/women-in-rcmp-have-come-a-long-way-in-40-years

I actually love these arguments. Makes me realize just how awesome our women RCMP really are.
Title: Re: This is sad...real fucking sad.
Post by: Obvious Li on October 21, 2014, 08:25:53 AM
Quote from: "Romero"
Quote from: "Obvious Li"P.S. currently there are hundreds of female RCMP officers that have been on stress/medical leave for longer than 15 years.......great benefits plan

You could provide a link for this, but you can't find it right now because you're making it up.



There it is right there. Too many still believe in the stereotype that women aren't as good as men. Even though the reality is our female RCMP perform exemplary.



They're actually out there protecting Canadians and Canada, not sitting at home collecting benefits.



Can you say the same?


Quote from: "Obvious Li"unfortunately with female mounties you have to hire three of them for every male...as one of them is either pregnant or on maternity leave...one is on stress leave.......and one is working....not  a very efficient use of the tax dollars required to fund a national police force

Yeah, women especially the female RCMP who risk their lives protecting you and Canada are nothing more than a bunch of tax leeching baby makers.



You're disgusting. Try telling that to any RCMP officer or any woman in your life and they'll set you straight real good.






article detailing RCMP sick leave policy..the number "hundreds many longer than fifteen years" was a direct quote from a CBC interview with their lawyer.....

The Psychology of Unlimited Medical Leave: An RCMP Story

Nov 04



Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) members have been provided with, unusually for these trying economic times, a very generous, fiscally unsound, and organizationally perplexing medical leave policy. The policy has allowed RCMP members unlimited (paid) medical leave. That's right, you who have a limited number of sick days, extended health benefits, and long term disability have read correctly.  When this policy is combined with the fact that RCMP managers, and senior executives, are not bound by any collective agreement governing the working conditions of their employees, you have a recipe for disaster.  The benefit is attractive to the membership and works reasonably well when the concern is an injury or illness; in most of these cases members return to work when healed or feeling better.



The disaster recipe, in short, involves management abuse of workers, who are then forced to take advantage of the medical leave policy and go "O.D.S." (off duty sick).  In these cases the concern is related more to a workplace conflict, abuse or harassment; and in frustration with the absence of a formal, functioning, process designed to resolve the conflict and return the member to work, the member goes "O.D.S." (sarcastically referred to by management as "O.D.M."...off duty mad).  The absence of a functioning grievance process leads the member down the black hole of unlimited medical leave; that has lasted for months or even years.  And in answer to your anticipated question, yes they are being paid for the entire time.



The focus of this article is not on the dysfunctional medical leave policy (that we are told will be changing) but on the psychology of those RCMP members who have gone "off duty sick".  If these members suffer any "mental disorder", it is a normal reaction that is in response to a clearly "identifiable psychosocial stressor"; that is, their unresolved abuse, conflict, or harassment in the workplace.
Title: Re: This is sad...real fucking sad.
Post by: Anonymous on October 21, 2014, 10:01:08 AM
My brother says that widespread sexism and harassment in the RCMP is a myth..



He says it is very rare.
Title: Re: This is sad...real fucking sad.
Post by: Romero on October 21, 2014, 01:54:50 PM
That's good to hear!
Title: Re: This is sad...real fucking sad.
Post by: Romero on October 21, 2014, 02:05:11 PM
Quote from: "Obvious Li"article detailing RCMP sick leave policy..the number "hundreds many longer than fifteen years" was a direct quote from a CBC interview with their lawyer.....

You must be talking about this:


QuoteSexual-harassment claims against RCMP reach 336



A senior RCMP communications adviser alleging sexual harassment and assault by a superior officer is the latest to join more than 300 women with similar claims across Canada in seeking legal action against the force.



The lawyer bringing the class action said in the two years since the lawsuit was filed, hundreds of women, one-third of them still with the force, have come forward.



"When we hit 100 I was surprised," said lawyer David Klein of Klein Lyons, the firm handling the class action. "As we hit 200, I was less surprised, and then 300 even less, because we were beginning to have a sense of the magnitude of the internal problem at the RCMP with women in the force."



//http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/sexual-harassment-claims-against-rcmp-reach-336/article19669218/

That's a lot different from your claim that hundreds have been on sick leave for over fifteen years.



Sexual harassment? Hey, it's not like in this day and age anyone would accuse female RCMP officers of being a bunch of tax leeching baby makers.
Title: Re: This is sad...real fucking sad.
Post by: Obvious Li on October 21, 2014, 02:58:59 PM
Quote from: "Fashionista"My brother says that widespread sexism and harassment in the RCMP is a myth..



He says it is very rare.




i believe that.....these women claiming endless sick leave are just malingerers........taking advantage of cowardly management and over generous union benefits.....work for 3-5 years and then go on sick leave for the rest of a 25 year career....retire with full bennys having barely shown up for work.....yep we need more gender equality all right..... ac_lmfao
Title: Re: This is sad...real fucking sad.
Post by: Obvious Li on October 21, 2014, 03:01:35 PM
Quote from: "Romero"
Quote from: "Obvious Li"article detailing RCMP sick leave policy..the number "hundreds many longer than fifteen years" was a direct quote from a CBC interview with their lawyer.....

You must be talking about this:


QuoteSexual-harassment claims against RCMP reach 336



A senior RCMP communications adviser alleging sexual harassment and assault by a superior officer is the latest to join more than 300 women with similar claims across Canada in seeking legal action against the force.



The lawyer bringing the class action said in the two years since the lawsuit was filed, hundreds of women, one-third of them still with the force, have come forward.



"When we hit 100 I was surprised," said lawyer David Klein of Klein Lyons, the firm handling the class action. "As we hit 200, I was less surprised, and then 300 even less, because we were beginning to have a sense of the magnitude of the internal problem at the RCMP with women in the force."



//http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/sexual-harassment-claims-against-rcmp-reach-336/article19669218/

That's a lot different from your claim that hundreds have been on sick leave for over fifteen years.



Sexual harassment? Hey, it's not like in this day and age anyone would accuse female RCMP officers of being a bunch of tax leeching baby makers.




ya this sounds like the same guy who told the interviewer that more than 100 had been on stress/sick leave in excess of fifteen years.....thx for looking that up homy
Title: Re: This is sad...real fucking sad.
Post by: Romero on October 21, 2014, 03:26:04 PM
I didn't look that up. As you can see, my article is talking about hundreds of sexual-harassment claims.



You're saying more than 100 now? You said hundreds at first.
Title: Re: This is sad...real fucking sad.
Post by: Anonymous on October 21, 2014, 11:09:56 PM
Quote from: "Obvious Li"
Quote from: "Fashionista"My brother says that widespread sexism and harassment in the RCMP is a myth..



He says it is very rare.




i believe that.....these women claiming endless sick leave are just malingerers........taking advantage of cowardly management and over generous union benefits.....work for 3-5 years and then go on sick leave for the rest of a 25 year career....retire with full bennys having barely shown up for work.....yep we need more gender equality all right..... ac_lmfao

Look, I don't doubt for a second there are some rogue cops on the RCMP. We have all seen video evidence of SOME RC's using excessive force on someone(usually in BC). It would not surprise me one bit if these same fucking "cowboys" were also perverts too.



Police work is unlike any other job in the world. If I shot and killed someone on the job, I would go to jail for a minimum of 10 years(second degree murder conviction). If an RC does it, they are removed from their job WITH pay.
Title: Re: This is sad...real fucking sad.
Post by: Anonymous on October 22, 2014, 08:34:15 AM
Quote from: "Shen Li"
Quote from: "Obvious Li"
Quote from: "Fashionista"My brother says that widespread sexism and harassment in the RCMP is a myth..



He says it is very rare.




i believe that.....these women claiming endless sick leave are just malingerers........taking advantage of cowardly management and over generous union benefits.....work for 3-5 years and then go on sick leave for the rest of a 25 year career....retire with full bennys having barely shown up for work.....yep we need more gender equality all right..... ac_lmfao

Look, I don't doubt for a second there are some rogue cops on the RCMP. We have all seen video evidence of SOME RC's using excessive force on someone(usually in BC). It would not surprise me one bit if these same fucking "cowboys" were also perverts too.



Police work is unlike any other job in the world. If I shot and killed someone on the job, I would go to jail for a minimum of 10 years(second degree murder conviction). If an RC does it, they are removed from their job WITH pay.

Police work is also a very stressful job..



A former RCMP officer who was removed from the force was found dead recently in Eastern Canada after having been diagnosed with PTSD..



It's a very tough job and for a few officers it can lead to them behaving in a way they never would have before seeing some of the horrible things they have seen..



There is help available to officers displaying symptoms of stress or worse..



Sexual harassment among RCMP officers is rare and so is physical abuse when carrying out their duties..



I respect the men and women who are RCMP officers even if some of them cannot take the pressures of the job anymore.
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