THeBlueCashew

QuoteTemperance leagues have been dismantled for decades. Selling alcohol is now supposedly legal and normal. Still, the spirit of the prohibition era is alive and well in most provinces in Canada.



Canadians pay way too much for their bottles of wine. Consider that 91% of bottles sold everywhere else around the world are priced under $10 or, even worse, 70% are less than $5 each.



I don't know how much you pay in your neck of the woods, but here in La Belle Province, where almost half of the wine in the country is sold, there are 17 bottles out of 11,500 that are less than $10.



Our public monopoly on alcoholic beverages, the Société des Alcools du Québec (SAQ), blames the government that keeps asking for more and more taxes and dividends every year.



The state has taken over from the mafia in terms of control of the once prohibited industry. Current tax levels are often insane. A bottle bought from a producer at $3.59 can be sold for $21.95 at the SAQ.



The political left pretends it doesn't matter because all the money collected on alcohol is a voluntary tax that pays for education and health care.



But is it the best and fairest way of hitting taxpayers?



Taxes on alcohol are regressive. The higher the price of a bottle, the lower the percentage of tax. For a $10 bottle, more than 70% of the price comes from taxes while they count for less than 50% on a $50 bottle.



Beer, wine and spirits also represent a higher percentage of expenses for the less wealthy.



In other words, aren't we taxing the poorest to pay for social programs for the rich? That's not what I call solidarity or progress.



With new technology it also becomes more and more difficult for Canadian monopolies to hold consumers hostage to their stores.



We are more connected. We see the true prices of what we drink all around the world. We buy more and more online. We don't have a dominant church that makes us feel guilty when we have a sip of the forbidden juice.



All the elements are in place for the competition to enter one of the last bastions of the state.



The problem with the current system in all provinces but Alberta is not just the fact that our liquor stores are managed by bureaucrats and political appointees or that operation costs are two times higher than other retail businesses.



The real problem is that there is no competition to give them an incentive to rationalize their costs and listen more to consumers.



Half a century ago, our alcohol sales industry moved from the Law of God to the Law of the State. The time has come to move to the Law of the Market.



I made my contribution over the last few days by publishing a book, La SAQ pousse le bouchon! (The SAQ pushes the cork!)



Let's hope we can pop that cork of our public monopolies in the near future.

http://www.edmontonsun.com/2014/11/05/taxes-drive-us-to-not-drink

Quote from: "Shen Li"Canadians are overcharged for everything by our 3 levels of government, but one of the most transparent examples is how much much we pay for booze in this country. The rest of the country should follow Alberta's example and privatize the distribution and sale of liquor. Still, Alberta just like every other province as well as the feds gouges us just like Luciano/Lansky/Kennedy once did South of the border.

QuoteTemperance leagues have been dismantled for decades. Selling alcohol is now supposedly legal and normal. Still, the spirit of the prohibition era is alive and well in most provinces in Canada.



Canadians pay way too much for their bottles of wine. Consider that 91% of bottles sold everywhere else around the world are priced under $10 or, even worse, 70% are less than $5 each.



I don't know how much you pay in your neck of the woods, but here in La Belle Province, where almost half of the wine in the country is sold, there are 17 bottles out of 11,500 that are less than $10.



Our public monopoly on alcoholic beverages, the Société des Alcools du Québec (SAQ), blames the government that keeps asking for more and more taxes and dividends every year.



The state has taken over from the mafia in terms of control of the once prohibited industry. Current tax levels are often insane. A bottle bought from a producer at $3.59 can be sold for $21.95 at the SAQ.



The political left pretends it doesn't matter because all the money collected on alcohol is a voluntary tax that pays for education and health care.



But is it the best and fairest way of hitting taxpayers?



Taxes on alcohol are regressive. The higher the price of a bottle, the lower the percentage of tax. For a $10 bottle, more than 70% of the price comes from taxes while they count for less than 50% on a $50 bottle.



Beer, wine and spirits also represent a higher percentage of expenses for the less wealthy.



In other words, aren't we taxing the poorest to pay for social programs for the rich? That's not what I call solidarity or progress.



With new technology it also becomes more and more difficult for Canadian monopolies to hold consumers hostage to their stores.



We are more connected. We see the true prices of what we drink all around the world. We buy more and more online. We don't have a dominant church that makes us feel guilty when we have a sip of the forbidden juice.



All the elements are in place for the competition to enter one of the last bastions of the state.



The problem with the current system in all provinces but Alberta is not just the fact that our liquor stores are managed by bureaucrats and political appointees or that operation costs are two times higher than other retail businesses.



The real problem is that there is no competition to give them an incentive to rationalize their costs and listen more to consumers.



Half a century ago, our alcohol sales industry moved from the Law of God to the Law of the State. The time has come to move to the Law of the Market.



I made my contribution over the last few days by publishing a book, La SAQ pousse le bouchon! (The SAQ pushes the cork!)



Let's hope we can pop that cork of our public monopolies in the near future.

http://www.edmontonsun.com/2014/11/05/taxes-drive-us-to-not-drink

QuoteThe Quebec government isn't exactly rushing to privatize its Société des alcools du Québec – the Crown corporation in charge of liquor sales in the province.



Several chambers of commerce have asked Premier Philippe Couillard to consider some sort of increased private competition, but the most that can be said of the Quebec Liberals is that they haven't ruled out some changes in the future.



Nonetheless, the government liquor-workers' union, the Confédération des syndicats nationaux (CSN), is peddling all the worn out arguments advanced whenever privatization is in the air: It will lead to more crime, more alcoholism, worse selection, poor customer service and even less convenience.



And, predictably, the CSN is pointing to what it sees as the disastrous privatization in Alberta nearly 20 years ago as a warning to Quebecers to avoid the same pitfall.



Except Alberta's 1995 privatization has been an enormous success, especially with customers.



So the CSN has gone further – it is offering racist arguments against privatization.



In a 14-minute online video, the union talks to a Franco-Albertan about his experience with private liquor sales. The man complains it is impossible to get decent wine-buying advice at most private outlets because the only employees are "an Indian (or) a Pakistani, who doesn't know wine and doesn't even drink wine."



What possible difference does an uninformed clerk's race or ethnicity make? The only point of making such a slur is to play on some Quebecers' distaste for non-white, non-francophone residents – the kind of Quebecers who loved the former PQ government's social charter that was so resoundingly rejected in the most recent provincial election.



The very fact that the CSN would leave such a blatantly racist remark in its propaganda video is a sign of just how desperate it is to tamp down support for privatization before there is even a concrete proposal on the table. (The backlash has forced the union to apologize, saying the offending remarks will be removed from the video.)



Bigoted anti-privatization arguments aside, the CSN's other assertions are just about as ridiculous.



Alberta's privatization hasn't been perfect. For instance, prices have not come down as much as they might have.



But there has been no measurable increase in hold-ups at liquor stores or any noticeable rise in alcoholism in the province.



And the failure of prices to come down by more than 5% or 6% is the direct result of the provincial government's reluctance to privatize fully. For instance, the Alberta government still has a monopoly over wholesaling which enables it to collect the same $1 billion or more out of the system every year that it did before privatization.



Retail mark-ups have had to come on top of the government's cut. With all that government interference, it's amazing prices have come down at all. But they have.



And provincial legislation forbids liquor-store chains from using their increased buying power to arrange discounts with vintners, distillers and brewers. Grocery stores cannot sell liquor, either.



But the value-for-money for consumers has made Alberta's liquor freedom a great success.



For one thing, there are five times as many outlets as when the government controlled sales. In any community over 10,000 residents, or so, it is possible to buy booze until 2 a.m. seven days a week.



In smaller communities, it is possible to buy liquor, period. No need to drive 30 to 50 km to the nearest government store.



There are as many specialty wine, beer and spirits stores in Alberta with certified experts to give advice as there are in provinces with government monopolies. It's just that there are many more small neighbourhood stores catering to the basic tastes of nearby residents.



Government liquor-store employees were losers in privatization. They lost their cushy, well-paying jobs. But why are civil servants' lifestyles the responsibility of consumers who just want a bottle or a six-pack?

http://www.edmontonsun.com/2014/11/08/quebec-union-should-stick-a-cork-in-it

Quote from: "Shen Li"Canadians are overcharged for everything by our 3 levels of government, but one of the most transparent examples is how much much we pay for booze in this country. The rest of the country should follow Alberta's example and privatize the distribution and sale of liquor. Still, Alberta just like every other province as well as the feds gouges us just like Luciano/Lansky/Kennedy once did South of the border.

QuoteTemperance leagues have been dismantled for decades. Selling alcohol is now supposedly legal and normal. Still, the spirit of the prohibition era is alive and well in most provinces in Canada.



Canadians pay way too much for their bottles of wine. Consider that 91% of bottles sold everywhere else around the world are priced under $10 or, even worse, 70% are less than $5 each.



I don't know how much you pay in your neck of the woods, but here in La Belle Province, where almost half of the wine in the country is sold, there are 17 bottles out of 11,500 that are less than $10.



Our public monopoly on alcoholic beverages, the Société des Alcools du Québec (SAQ), blames the government that keeps asking for more and more taxes and dividends every year.



The state has taken over from the mafia in terms of control of the once prohibited industry. Current tax levels are often insane. A bottle bought from a producer at $3.59 can be sold for $21.95 at the SAQ.



The political left pretends it doesn't matter because all the money collected on alcohol is a voluntary tax that pays for education and health care.



But is it the best and fairest way of hitting taxpayers?



Taxes on alcohol are regressive. The higher the price of a bottle, the lower the percentage of tax. For a $10 bottle, more than 70% of the price comes from taxes while they count for less than 50% on a $50 bottle.



Beer, wine and spirits also represent a higher percentage of expenses for the less wealthy.



In other words, aren't we taxing the poorest to pay for social programs for the rich? That's not what I call solidarity or progress.



With new technology it also becomes more and more difficult for Canadian monopolies to hold consumers hostage to their stores.



We are more connected. We see the true prices of what we drink all around the world. We buy more and more online. We don't have a dominant church that makes us feel guilty when we have a sip of the forbidden juice.



All the elements are in place for the competition to enter one of the last bastions of the state.



The problem with the current system in all provinces but Alberta is not just the fact that our liquor stores are managed by bureaucrats and political appointees or that operation costs are two times higher than other retail businesses.



The real problem is that there is no competition to give them an incentive to rationalize their costs and listen more to consumers.



Half a century ago, our alcohol sales industry moved from the Law of God to the Law of the State. The time has come to move to the Law of the Market.



I made my contribution over the last few days by publishing a book, La SAQ pousse le bouchon! (The SAQ pushes the cork!)



Let's hope we can pop that cork of our public monopolies in the near future.

http://www.edmontonsun.com/2014/11/05/taxes-drive-us-to-not-drink

Quote from: "Big Wave Dave"

Quote from: "Shen Li"Canadians are overcharged for everything by our 3 levels of government, but one of the most transparent examples is how much much we pay for booze in this country. The rest of the country should follow Alberta's example and privatize the distribution and sale of liquor. Still, Alberta just like every other province as well as the feds gouges us just like Luciano/Lansky/Kennedy once did South of the border.

QuoteTemperance leagues have been dismantled for decades. Selling alcohol is now supposedly legal and normal. Still, the spirit of the prohibition era is alive and well in most provinces in Canada.



Canadians pay way too much for their bottles of wine. Consider that 91% of bottles sold everywhere else around the world are priced under $10 or, even worse, 70% are less than $5 each.



I don't know how much you pay in your neck of the woods, but here in La Belle Province, where almost half of the wine in the country is sold, there are 17 bottles out of 11,500 that are less than $10.



Our public monopoly on alcoholic beverages, the Société des Alcools du Québec (SAQ), blames the government that keeps asking for more and more taxes and dividends every year.



The state has taken over from the mafia in terms of control of the once prohibited industry. Current tax levels are often insane. A bottle bought from a producer at $3.59 can be sold for $21.95 at the SAQ.



The political left pretends it doesn't matter because all the money collected on alcohol is a voluntary tax that pays for education and health care.



But is it the best and fairest way of hitting taxpayers?



Taxes on alcohol are regressive. The higher the price of a bottle, the lower the percentage of tax. For a $10 bottle, more than 70% of the price comes from taxes while they count for less than 50% on a $50 bottle.



Beer, wine and spirits also represent a higher percentage of expenses for the less wealthy.



In other words, aren't we taxing the poorest to pay for social programs for the rich? That's not what I call solidarity or progress.



With new technology it also becomes more and more difficult for Canadian monopolies to hold consumers hostage to their stores.



We are more connected. We see the true prices of what we drink all around the world. We buy more and more online. We don't have a dominant church that makes us feel guilty when we have a sip of the forbidden juice.



All the elements are in place for the competition to enter one of the last bastions of the state.



The problem with the current system in all provinces but Alberta is not just the fact that our liquor stores are managed by bureaucrats and political appointees or that operation costs are two times higher than other retail businesses.



The real problem is that there is no competition to give them an incentive to rationalize their costs and listen more to consumers.



Half a century ago, our alcohol sales industry moved from the Law of God to the Law of the State. The time has come to move to the Law of the Market.



I made my contribution over the last few days by publishing a book, La SAQ pousse le bouchon! (The SAQ pushes the cork!)



Let's hope we can pop that cork of our public monopolies in the near future.

http://www.edmontonsun.com/2014/11/05/taxes-drive-us-to-not-drink

Convenience stores should be allowed to sell alcohol and people should be allowed to enjoy anyway they want.

Quote from: "Shen Li"^Don't buy it and your problem is solved. Besides it deprives government of their gouging sin tax revenue.

Quote from: "Fashionista"

Quote from: "Shen Li"^Don't buy it and your problem is solved. Besides it deprives government of their gouging sin tax revenue.

But those high taxes on alcohol pay for the high costs to our heath care and police services alcohol causes.

Quote from: "Renee"

Quote from: "Fashionista"

Quote from: "Shen Li"^Don't buy it and your problem is solved. Besides it deprives government of their gouging sin tax revenue.

But those high taxes on alcohol pay for the high costs to our heath care and police services alcohol causes.

That's a slippery slide you are talking about. If you start taxing things for the "common good"; where does it end? What's the next target that the blood sucking government types will attack next?



In the US tobacco products are heavily taxed and new taxes are added each year. It not only made tobacco products extremely expensive but through the use of gov sponsored and tax funded education campaigns it made whole groups of people into social pariahs. Now tobacco consumption is way down and the government is constantly looking for new taxes to offset the loss in revenue. In other words the Gov taxed and shamed their cash cow into the endangered species zone. Critics of tobacco use may say that this is a good thing but the Gov only sees it as that much less money pouring into their coffers.



Obesity is now looking like it will be the next target. Noise has been made about taxing junk food and food products that contain over certain amount of sugar. Efforts to tax or limit sugary beverages are in place in many places and this new found form of revenue shows little sign that it will be going away anytime soon. As if people like me didn't have it bad enough it's only a matter of time before we are turned in complete social pariahs as well.



So where does it stop? If you allow your Government to institute these kinds of taxes you are opening a can of worms that you will never be able to seal again. Remember; governments main purpose is to survive, perpetuate itself, expand and control whatever and whoever it can. AND they can only do that by reaching into your wallet and taking what is not rightfully theirs, all under the guise of providing services and making a so-called better world for all.



We have grown complacent and stupid and have given our governments too much power over our lives. We are now ruled over by a cast of privileged career politicians that many come from politically connect dynastic families. They are the ruling elite and they have no intention of relinquishing power. Their entire aim is to keep you and I stupid so that they can freely feed from the taxpayer provide communal trough.



AND BTW, before someone pipes up and starts saying that this is indicative of western democracy I just want to say that this in not exclusive to governments here in the west. It is true for just about every fucking government on this globe and you would be well served to never forget that.

Quote from: "Real Woman"
On one hand Shen here will complain about the taxation on alcohol and on the other will bitch about how much the government spends on health care.  You can't have your cake, eat it too, get diabetes, cost the health care system and not pay for it somehow.



Renee, you have to understand that we have a universal health care system here, which means our government has a vested interest in having a healthy society.  It affects our bottom line.  People who engage in activities that are known to cause health problems which cost the system, are taxed more heavily.  It's not the same in the US where someone gets rich from your bad habits from the cradle to the grave.

Quote from: "Real Woman"Yeah and then you read headlines like:



Alberta ranks among highest provinces for divorce, drinking and gambling

Quote from: "Renee"

Quote from: "Fashionista"

Quote from: "Shen Li"^Don't buy it and your problem is solved. Besides it deprives government of their gouging sin tax revenue.

But those high taxes on alcohol pay for the high costs to our heath care and police services alcohol causes.

That's a slippery slide you are talking about. If you start taxing things for the "common good"; where does it end? What's the next target that the blood sucking government types will attack next?



In the US tobacco products are heavily taxed and new taxes are added each year. It not only made tobacco products extremely expensive but through the use of gov sponsored and tax funded education campaigns it made whole groups of people into social pariahs. Now tobacco consumption is way down and the government is constantly looking for new taxes to offset the loss in revenue. In other words the Gov taxed and shamed their cash cow into the endangered species zone. Critics of tobacco use may say that this is a good thing but the Gov only sees it as that much less money pouring into their coffers.



Obesity is now looking like it will be the next target. Noise has been made about taxing junk food and food products that contain over certain amount of sugar. Efforts to tax or limit sugary beverages are in place in many places and this new found form of revenue shows little sign that it will be going away anytime soon. As if people like me didn't have it bad enough it's only a matter of time before we are turned in complete social pariahs as well.



So where does it stop? If you allow your Government to institute these kinds of taxes you are opening a can of worms that you will never be able to seal again. Remember; governments main purpose is to survive, perpetuate itself, expand and control whatever and whoever it can. AND they can only do that by reaching into your wallet and taking what is not rightfully theirs, all under the guise of providing services and making a so-called better world for all.



We have grown complacent and stupid and have given our governments too much power over our lives. We are now ruled over by a cast of privileged career politicians that many come from politically connect dynastic families. They are the ruling elite and they have no intention of relinquishing power. Their entire aim is to keep you and I stupid so that they can freely feed from the taxpayer provide communal trough.



AND BTW, before someone pipes up and starts saying that this is indicative of western democracy I just want to say that this in not exclusive to governments here in the west. It is true for just about every fucking government on this globe and you would be well served to never forget that.

QuoteOn the other hand again, taxes too high on tobacco has lead to a lucrative black market tobacco smuggling business

Quote from: "Real Woman"I would imagine not a lot considering we don't seem to jail people around here.

Quote from: "seoulbro"

Quote from: "Renee"

Quote from: "Fashionista"
But those high taxes on alcohol pay for the high costs to our heath care and police services alcohol causes.

That's a slippery slide you are talking about. If you start taxing things for the "common good"; where does it end? What's the next target that the blood sucking government types will attack next?



In the US tobacco products are heavily taxed and new taxes are added each year. It not only made tobacco products extremely expensive but through the use of gov sponsored and tax funded education campaigns it made whole groups of people into social pariahs. Now tobacco consumption is way down and the government is constantly looking for new taxes to offset the loss in revenue. In other words the Gov taxed and shamed their cash cow into the endangered species zone. Critics of tobacco use may say that this is a good thing but the Gov only sees it as that much less money pouring into their coffers.



Obesity is now looking like it will be the next target. Noise has been made about taxing junk food and food products that contain over certain amount of sugar. Efforts to tax or limit sugary beverages are in place in many places and this new found form of revenue shows little sign that it will be going away anytime soon. As if people like me didn't have it bad enough it's only a matter of time before we are turned in complete social pariahs as well.



So where does it stop? If you allow your Government to institute these kinds of taxes you are opening a can of worms that you will never be able to seal again. Remember; governments main purpose is to survive, perpetuate itself, expand and control whatever and whoever it can. AND they can only do that by reaching into your wallet and taking what is not rightfully theirs, all under the guise of providing services and making a so-called better world for all.



We have grown complacent and stupid and have given our governments too much power over our lives. We are now ruled over by a cast of privileged career politicians that many come from politically connect dynastic families. They are the ruling elite and they have no intention of relinquishing power. Their entire aim is to keep you and I stupid so that they can freely feed from the taxpayer provide communal trough.



AND BTW, before someone pipes up and starts saying that this is indicative of western democracy I just want to say that this in not exclusive to governments here in the west. It is true for just about every fucking government on this globe and you would be well served to never forget that.

I too have a problem with being taxed for my own good. First it is tobacco and liquor, then it's gasoline and environmental taxes. They all sound good in thery; the user pays. But, it has the effect of taking more money out of our pockets. The results are all too often dubious. They seldom make life better for anyone.



On the other hand, taxes are a good way for discouraging harmful behaviours. I am a smoker myself, but I do not want to see anyone take up the habit. On the other hand again, taxes too high on tobacco has lead to a lucrative black market tobacco smuggling business in Ontario.

Quote from: "Shen Li"

Quote from: "Real Woman"I would imagine not a lot considering we don't seem to jail people around here.

Aboriginal gangs for smuggling? Does that fucking surprise you?

Quote from: "Real Woman"You guys think the government is babysitting you when really it's all about their bottom line.

Quote from: "seoulbro"

Quote from: "Real Woman"You guys think the government is babysitting you when really it's all about their bottom line.

Do not get me wrong, I am not against sin taxes on products harmful to our health. But, there is a tipping point when the taxes become so high it produces activities that much more nefarious to the general public. Governments don't get any revenue when criminals sell contraband smokes.

Quote from: "Gary Oak"

Quote from: "seoulbro"

Quote from: "Real Woman"You guys think the government is babysitting you when really it's all about their bottom line.

Do not get me wrong, I am not against sin taxes on products harmful to our health. But, there is a tipping point when the taxes become so high it produces activities that much more nefarious to the general public. Governments don't get any revenue when criminals sell contraband smokes.

Seoulfag smokes and probably carries a man purse just like every other Canadiscam does. :howdy:  ac_drinks  ac_toofunny

Quote from: "reel"France has extremely low costs for alcohol, extremely high rates of consumption (litres/person/year), and public healthcare.  However, they have low incidence of public drunkeness, drunk driving, and alcoholism.



I believe that problems with alcohol are rooted in cultural values, and are not prevented by government intervention by a nanny state.  In fact, I believe the opposite is true.  Most children in France are exposed to low levels of alcohol consumption relatively early on and in a family environment.  Thus, drinking is not a big deal and consumption is rooted in family values (ie. have a drink or two at dinner, don't drink too much, just as you wouldn't eat too much).  Contrast that to North America, where drinking underage is taboo and thus excessive drinking appeals enormously to rebellious teenagers.  People get drunk on weekends as teenagers and then later in life associate getting drunk on weekends with being young and free.  The government imposed temperance (via excessive taxes) promotes and prolongs the unhealthy attitude we have developed towards drinking.

Quote from: "reel"France has extremely low costs for alcohol, extremely high rates of consumption (litres/person/year), and public healthcare.  However, they have low incidence of public drunkeness, drunk driving, and alcoholism.



I believe that problems with alcohol are rooted in cultural values, and are not prevented by government intervention by a nanny state.  In fact, I believe the opposite is true.  Most children in France are exposed to low levels of alcohol consumption relatively early on and in a family environment.  Thus, drinking is not a big deal and consumption is rooted in family values (ie. have a drink or two at dinner, don't drink too much, just as you wouldn't eat too much).  Contrast that to North America, where drinking underage is taboo and thus excessive drinking appeals enormously to rebellious teenagers.  People get drunk on weekends as teenagers and then later in life associate getting drunk on weekends with being young and free.  The government imposed temperance (via excessive taxes) promotes and prolongs the unhealthy attitude we have developed towards drinking.

Quote from: "Fashionista"

Quote from: "reel"France has extremely low costs for alcohol, extremely high rates of consumption (litres/person/year), and public healthcare.  However, they have low incidence of public drunkeness, drunk driving, and alcoholism.



I believe that problems with alcohol are rooted in cultural values, and are not prevented by government intervention by a nanny state.  In fact, I believe the opposite is true.  Most children in France are exposed to low levels of alcohol consumption relatively early on and in a family environment.  Thus, drinking is not a big deal and consumption is rooted in family values (ie. have a drink or two at dinner, don't drink too much, just as you wouldn't eat too much).  Contrast that to North America, where drinking underage is taboo and thus excessive drinking appeals enormously to rebellious teenagers.  People get drunk on weekends as teenagers and then later in life associate getting drunk on weekends with being young and free.  The government imposed temperance (via excessive taxes) promotes and prolongs the unhealthy attitude we have developed towards drinking.

I like high taxes on alcohol and cigarettes reel as a way to curb unhealthy behaviours..



Doesn't it also help to pay for the extra costs to our health care too?

Quote from: "Fashionista"

Quote from: "reel"France has extremely low costs for alcohol, extremely high rates of consumption (litres/person/year), and public healthcare.  However, they have low incidence of public drunkeness, drunk driving, and alcoholism.



I believe that problems with alcohol are rooted in cultural values, and are not prevented by government intervention by a nanny state.  In fact, I believe the opposite is true.  Most children in France are exposed to low levels of alcohol consumption relatively early on and in a family environment.  Thus, drinking is not a big deal and consumption is rooted in family values (ie. have a drink or two at dinner, don't drink too much, just as you wouldn't eat too much).  Contrast that to North America, where drinking underage is taboo and thus excessive drinking appeals enormously to rebellious teenagers.  People get drunk on weekends as teenagers and then later in life associate getting drunk on weekends with being young and free.  The government imposed temperance (via excessive taxes) promotes and prolongs the unhealthy attitude we have developed towards drinking.

I like high taxes on alcohol and cigarettes reel as a way to curb unhealthy behaviours..



Doesn't it also help to pay for the extra costs to our health care too?

Quote from: "Renee"
Any time I hear someone say "I like high taxes" (on anything), I have to cringe and think to myself, "WTF is wrong with that person?".  ac_wot

Quote from: "reel"

Quote from: "Renee"
Any time I hear someone say "I like high taxes" (on anything), I have to cringe and think to myself, "WTF is wrong with that person?".  ac_wot

I can understand where she's coming from.



There's a big story in Canadian news media right now about a pregnant woman (6mos) who went on vacation in Hawaii, had a premature birth, had to be air-lifted, spend time in hospital, etc.  Their bill was nearly 1 million dollars.  She had insurance, but they decided not to cover her, on the basis that pregnancy was a pre-existing condition, or some such rot.  Now her, her husband and the newborn are likely declaring bankruptcy and selling their home.  We don't hear about this type of thing that often here, but I'm sure it's not a unique type of occurrence.



I'd rather pay higher taxes and not have this sort of thing happen to random innocent people.



Then, taxes on smoking cigarettes is similar to paying higher health insurance premiums.  I presume you have to do that if you smoke.  We don't pay health insurance, but smokers have a much higher likelihood to require the system, so taxes are the reflection of that.



I disagree on alcohol though because having a drink a day or every few days won't harm your health or make you more likely to need health care.  The tax on liquor is indeed a temperance era throw back and has become a cash cow for the government, with little justification other than increasing general revenues.

Quote from: "reel"

Quote from: "Renee"
Any time I hear someone say "I like high taxes" (on anything), I have to cringe and think to myself, "WTF is wrong with that person?".  ac_wot

I can understand where she's coming from.



There's a big story in Canadian news media right now about a pregnant woman (6mos) who went on vacation in Hawaii, had a premature birth, had to be air-lifted, spend time in hospital, etc.  Their bill was nearly 1 million dollars.  She had insurance, but they decided not to cover her, on the basis that pregnancy was a pre-existing condition, or some such rot.  Now her, her husband and the newborn are likely declaring bankruptcy and selling their home.  We don't hear about this type of thing that often here, but I'm sure it's not a unique type of occurrence.



I'd rather pay higher taxes and not have this sort of thing happen to random innocent people.



Then, taxes on smoking cigarettes is similar to paying higher health insurance premiums.  I presume you have to do that if you smoke.  We don't pay health insurance, but smokers have a much higher likelihood to require the system, so taxes are the reflection of that.



I disagree on alcohol though because having a drink a day or every few days won't harm your health or make you more likely to need health care.  The tax on liquor is indeed a temperance era throw back and has become a cash cow for the government, with little justification other than increasing general revenues.

Quote from: "reel"Interesting.  I'm not sure.  I think they were from Manitoba or some other godforsaken swamp land.  Not sure if the rules are different there.  I also think that what they might do is refund you the cost of service that you would have received in BC.  So if that service would have cost $10k here, you get $10k even if they bill you $1M somewhere else.



Anyway, however it works, you aren't really covered for travelling.  I was diving in a tow tank in Maryland and sliced my hand right down to the tendon.  I had to 6 stitches and it was $100 per stitch.  That was covered by extended insurance, not by BC health.

Quote from: "Renee"

Quote from: "reel"Interesting.  I'm not sure.  I think they were from Manitoba or some other godforsaken swamp land.  Not sure if the rules are different there.  I also think that what they might do is refund you the cost of service that you would have received in BC.  So if that service would have cost $10k here, you get $10k even if they bill you $1M somewhere else.



Anyway, however it works, you aren't really covered for travelling.  I was diving in a tow tank in Maryland and sliced my hand right down to the tendon.  I had to 6 stitches and it was $100 per stitch.  That was covered by extended insurance, not by BC health.

To be honest as long as the woman was up front about being pregnant when they took out the travel insurance and as long as they were told that they were covered AND they have in writing within the premium I can't see how Blue Cross can deny their claim and get away with it legally.



Medical insurance in the US IS fucked up but if your coverage expressly says you are covered for the type of treatment you ultimately receive, they cannot deny you. They may fight with the hospital and doctor as to the amount they are willing to pay but they cannot flat out deny you.



BTW, under the Affordable Healthcare Act US citizens cannot be denied coverage because of preexisting conditions. That was one of the major sticking points of the bill and was supposed to stop insurers from pulling that kind of crap. Not sure if it applies to non US residents or travel insurance.

Quote from: "reel"

Quote from: "Fashionista"

Quote from: "reel"France has extremely low costs for alcohol, extremely high rates of consumption (litres/person/year), and public healthcare.  However, they have low incidence of public drunkeness, drunk driving, and alcoholism.



I believe that problems with alcohol are rooted in cultural values, and are not prevented by government intervention by a nanny state.  In fact, I believe the opposite is true.  Most children in France are exposed to low levels of alcohol consumption relatively early on and in a family environment.  Thus, drinking is not a big deal and consumption is rooted in family values (ie. have a drink or two at dinner, don't drink too much, just as you wouldn't eat too much).  Contrast that to North America, where drinking underage is taboo and thus excessive drinking appeals enormously to rebellious teenagers.  People get drunk on weekends as teenagers and then later in life associate getting drunk on weekends with being young and free.  The government imposed temperance (via excessive taxes) promotes and prolongs the unhealthy attitude we have developed towards drinking.

I like high taxes on alcohol and cigarettes reel as a way to curb unhealthy behaviours..



Doesn't it also help to pay for the extra costs to our health care too?

I disagree that drinking alcohol is unhealthy.  It's unhealthy when done in excess, but so are potato chips, chocolate bars, soft drinks... the list is very long.  Should we have a public health tax on all those things as well?

Quote from: "reel"I'd rather pay higher taxes and not have this sort of thing happen to random innocent people.



Then, taxes on smoking cigarettes is similar to paying higher health insurance premiums.  I presume you have to do that if you smoke.  We don't pay health insurance, but smokers have a much higher likelihood to require the system, so taxes are the reflection of that.

Quote from: "seoulbro"High taxes on smokes are voluntary. I choose pay them every time I buy a carton of smokes. At least, I used to do that, but now I buy contraband smokes. How much revenue does the government collect for health care off of that? This is a consequence of making sin taxes too high.

Quote from: "Fashionista"

Quote from: "seoulbro"High taxes on smokes are voluntary. I choose pay them every time I buy a carton of smokes. At least, I used to do that, but now I buy contraband smokes. How much revenue does the government collect for health care off of that? This is a consequence of making sin taxes too high.

Do you mean cigarettes that have been stolen?

Quote from: "seoulbro"High taxes on smokes are voluntary. I choose pay them every time I buy a carton of smokes. At least, I used to do that, but now I buy contraband smokes. How much revenue does the government collect for health care off of that? This is a consequence of making sin taxes too high.

Quote from: "seoulbro"High taxes on smokes are voluntary. I choose pay them every time I buy a carton of smokes. At least, I used to do that, but now I buy contraband smokes. How much revenue does the government collect for health care off of that? This is a consequence of making sin taxes too high.

Quote from: "Gary Oak"

Quote from: "seoulbro"High taxes on smokes are voluntary. I choose pay them every time I buy a carton of smokes. At least, I used to do that, but now I buy contraband smokes. How much revenue does the government collect for health care off of that? This is a consequence of making sin taxes too high.

Notice how fan ching fuk ming Canadiscammers like Seoulfag take advantage of Canadians by using our services, but don't pay for them. :howdy:  ac_angel  ac_sothere

Quote from: "Obvious Li"

Quote from: "seoulbro"High taxes on smokes are voluntary. I choose pay them every time I buy a carton of smokes. At least, I used to do that, but now I buy contraband smokes. How much revenue does the government collect for health care off of that? This is a consequence of making sin taxes too high.

i'm with you brother......all govt.'s are criminal enterprises....anything and i mean even the littlest thing you can do to thwart their attempts to steal more of your hard earned dollars has my full support...power to the people..... ac_beating

Quote from: "seoulbro"

Quote from: "Obvious Li"

Quote from: "seoulbro"High taxes on smokes are voluntary. I choose pay them every time I buy a carton of smokes. At least, I used to do that, but now I buy contraband smokes. How much revenue does the government collect for health care off of that? This is a consequence of making sin taxes too high.

i'm with you brother......all govt.'s are criminal enterprises....anything and i mean even the littlest thing you can do to thwart their attempts to steal more of your hard earned dollars has my full support...power to the people..... ac_beating

The Ontario government has banned e-cigarettes in public places.  ac_rollseyes Only four more years of their incompetence. ac_rollseyes