But it does raise some interesting philosophical and philanthropic issues.
Firstly, although the defendant is probably suffering a mental illness (which doesn't mean he is handicapped), he stands on the position that there is a universal law, and thus the "law" created by governments and corporations are invalid.
This is not, in my view, an untenable position.
There were no codified laws hundreds of years ago. Law, such as it was, were cultural imperatives that a tribal head, or chieftain applied to maintain peace, safety and the best interest of the tribe.
One man could not impose his will on the tribe, unless the tribe agreed and accepted the authority of the chief.
Modern law, as complex, perverse, corrupt and illogical as it is, is no different. We have abrogated our responsibility to ensure laws serve us well, and as a result, they don't. The recognition of this situation is widespread. The temptation to return to a simpler form of government that harks back to universal laws is growing. The law, like politics and religion, has become the fortress behind which those that lust for power and wealth barricade them self.
Unfortunately, the law's power is only what we endow it with. In the event that we dis-empower it, those that seek its protection to continue to deceive, and steal will suddenly find themselves naked and vulnerable.
The accrual of wealth and power beyond reason and contrary to the best interests of the tribe is a crime against humanity. Its a shame that when we see men like these, who see with crystal clarity, we think they are the crazy ones.
Power to you, you daffy old coot. Were I as brave as you... ac_umm
ac_lmfao Get back here and finish this!!!
Stubborn old bastard.... ac_huh
Quote from: "Leopardsocks"
Power to you, you daffy old coot. Were I as brave as you... ac_umm
He's crazy. One of those "sovereign citizens" who conveniently believe no laws apply to them.
He ended up going to jail. His militia buddies then threatened to citizens' arrest the judge.
I do not suggest his conduct was appropriate or even sensible.
I am focussing on his philosophical point. For example, he calls the US flag a "jolly roger". I think he is quite right. Governments have become larcenous, self serving parasites on the common purse.
Let me ask you this; a man tells you he will run and organise your house for you, including making the rules that will apply to the day to day running. He will charge you $10.
Seems like a good deal, so you agree. He washes your car, and stops kids running in the hallway. He takes in the washing, buys the groceries and cooks.
One day, he tells you that you must pay $100. You balk, but he shows you the new rule that says you must pay $100. You tell him you refuse.
He then tells you you can't refuse...because its in the rules.
You tell them you don't want his services.
He tells you that you cannot severe the relationship because...
You challenge the man in court. He wins. Because....
In the meantime, the man has rescinded performing a number of tasks, and has started a fight with the next door neighbour, and so the payment rate has gone to $150 so he can buy guns and ammunition.
If such a scenario were placed before you, you'd laugh and walk away.
But that is life in a western democracy.
Quote from: "Leopardsocks"
I am focussing on his philosophical point. For example, he calls the US flag a "jolly roger". I think he is quite right. Governments have become larcenous, self serving parasites on the common purse.
Let me ask you this; a man tells you he will run and organise your house for you, including making the rules that will apply to the day to day running. He will charge you $10.
Seems like a good deal, so you agree. He washes your car, and stops kids running in the hallway. He takes in the washing, buys the groceries and cooks.
One day, he tells you that you must pay $100. You balk, but he shows you the new rule that says you must pay $100. You tell him you refuse.
He then tells you you can't refuse...because its in the rules.
You tell them you don't want his services.
He tells you that you cannot severe the relationship because...
You challenge the man in court. He wins. Because....
In the meantime, the man has rescinded performing a number of tasks, and has started a fight with the next door neighbour, and so the payment rate has gone to $150 so he can buy guns and ammunition.
If such a scenario were placed before you, you'd laugh and walk away.
But that is life in a western democracy.
I don't vote Leopardsocks.
Whatever valid point he may have had about not being subject to manmade laws was pretty much cancelled out when he hopped into an suv and drove off. ac_tongue
Quote from: "Fashionista"
I don't vote Leopardsocks.
I understand.
In Oz, voting is compulsory...although I suspect not for much longer.
But, NOT voting is condoning the status quo. The real issue is you are not motivated enough to vote because you do not care which party wins, and you are not offered options that would encourage you to do so.
Furthermore, the voting process itself is archaic.
But if someone presented to your electorate with new ideas, and a commitment to change...would you vote then?
Quote from: "Leopardsocks"
I am focussing on his philosophical point. For example, he calls the US flag a "jolly roger". I think he is quite right. Governments have become larcenous, self serving parasites on the common purse.
Let me ask you this; a man tells you he will run and organise your house for you, including making the rules that will apply to the day to day running. He will charge you $10.
Seems like a good deal, so you agree. He washes your car, and stops kids running in the hallway. He takes in the washing, buys the groceries and cooks.
One day, he tells you that you must pay $100. You balk, but he shows you the new rule that says you must pay $100. You tell him you refuse.
He then tells you you can't refuse...because its in the rules.
You tell them you don't want his services.
He tells you that you cannot severe the relationship because...
You challenge the man in court. He wins. Because....
In the meantime, the man has rescinded performing a number of tasks, and has started a fight with the next door neighbour, and so the payment rate has gone to $150 so he can buy guns and ammunition.
If such a scenario were placed before you, you'd laugh and walk away.
But that is life in a western democracy.
He was only calling the US flag a "Jolly Roger", citing "natural law" and insisting the government is corrupt because he wants to fish without a license.
He would have used the same argument for driving without a license or getting a speeding ticket.
Quote from: "easter bunny"
I thought the exact same thing!
Quote from: "RW"
Quote from: "easter bunny"
I thought the exact same thing!
ac_cool
These assholes spouting this natural law crap are all full of shit. They conveniently use the argument that people are not subject to the laws of a civil society so they can act out their self-serving aims and wants.They are a bunch of misanthropic clowns.
Most of them should taken to a public square and stoned.
Quote from: "Leopardsocks"
But, NOT voting is condoning the status quo. The real issue is you are not motivated enough to vote because you do not care which party wins, and you are not offered options that would encourage you to do so.
Furthermore, the voting process itself is archaic.
But if someone presented to your electorate with new ideas, and a commitment to change...would you vote then?
Voting is a fucking joke here in North America. It is all about pandering the squeakiest wheels in order to get elected. The only difference between conservative and socialists is that the lefties are at least honest they want a helluva lot more of our hard earned cash.
We have a government here in the province of Alberta that has over spent by $49 billion in the last decade buying labour peace and everyone else in order to maintain their political dynasty. Universal suffrage sucks. The lower the number of people that vote the better. Make it an earned privilege not a birth right.
No Sgen, they racked it up by sipping from the oily teet rather than sucking on it heartily. No provincial taxes, barely any corporate taxation. Dumbasses.
Quote from: "RW"
Not true, Alberta even without debt servicing costs, spends more per capita than any other province except maybe Quebec. Remember, Ralph Klein paid down the deficit and debt, lowered all taxes and launched the sustainability fund with low oil prices like today. Giving Alberta more revenue is like giving a heroin addict your cash. They will blow it. As long as we keep growing spending above the rate of inflation and population growth, we may start carrying debt like other provinces.
Yep, just checked it out and Alberta does have the highest government revenue in Canada. Problem is we also spend the most per capita.
Enough of the negative though, despite 8-9 years of reckless spending, Alberta is an economic success story.
Some facts,
1. We have no or little debt(depends which accountants you trust). Ontario is about $17,300 per person, Quebec is just under $21 k/head and BC is about $7900 per person. Alberta has a surplus of about $4300 per person.
2. In 2013, the Alberta economy grew strongly by 3.9%. Alberta has led all provinces in economic growth over the past 20 years, with an average annual GDP growth of 3.5% per year.
3. More than 475,000 new jobs were created between 2003 and 2013.
4. Even with the latest budget adding 59 new taxes we are still the lowest taxed jurisdiction in Canada(although Saskatchewan may challenge us for that title in the future.
5. Most importantly, GDP per capita at $84, 390 is not only the highest of any province in Canada, it is the highest on the continent. Canada is $53,870, BC is $50,121, Ontario is $51,340, Quebec is $44,499 and the oil-rich provinces of Newfoundland and Saskatchewan are $67,838 and $75,232.
Alberta's problems are temporary. Ontario's near 15 year decline is what we should really be worrying about.
Ontario's decline has been long and deep. Even with a low dollar, it is still underperforming. So much for Dutch Disease theories.
Quote
Under the complex equalization formula, Ontario has become one of six have-not provinces and will receive about $3.2 billion in payments for fiscal 2011-12, according to the federal Department of Finance.
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/dailybrew/ontario-economic-decline-strain-canadian-unity-critics-argue-212010755.html
On the plus side, especially for BC folks, but for all Canadians, your province will lead the nation this year in economic growth. BC along with Saskatchewan and Alberta will continue to be among the best performers in Canada. The reason of course is resource development.
Quote from: "Romero"
He was only calling the US flag a "Jolly Roger", citing "natural law" and insisting the government is corrupt because he wants to fish without a license.
He would have used the same argument for driving without a license or getting a speeding ticket.
I don't agree.
He was referring to the flag as the flag of piracy.
I believe he is right.
The government steals our money in thousands of different ways, and we simply turn our backs, and ASSUME they are stealing it for the greater good.
That is an outright sham...anyone who disagrees, step up to this line right now, and put forth your reasoned argument.
For the most part, it goes to the greater good. Check any budget allocation and look for spending in things like health care and education.
DERP.
Quote from: "RW"
DERP.
Yes, let us LOOK at health care and education.
How many children are educated and fail to respond to their education? What is the purpose of said education? Where is the payoff to society for stumping up BILLIONS of dollars to teach children a lot of complete and irrelevant garbage?
Likewise, health care. Why must I pay for the care of drug addicts, alcoholics, smokers, neurotic mothers and their snivelling brats? How many people who clog up the hospital system actually paid any contribution to the overall system? How many people who line up in casualty every night and day are there because of their own stupidity, and for which I have to pay?
Noble, leftist, social ideals...soon to be exploited and perverted by the wastrels, parasites and non-contributors to their own upkeep.
Government welfare is now a fucking joke...and no-one is laughing. Governments do not spend THEIR money, they spend YOUR money after they've made sure they look after themselves.
If you do not work, you cannot vote. It is an aberration that non-contributors can vote...when it is clear they will ALWAYS vote for the left side who promise them all the welfare they can afford. So, our country cannot afford the massive welfare bills and wants to cut back. Yet at the next election, you can be damn sure that the sociological ticks that are fed by the bloated belly of government waste are not going to vote for a party that says they are taking some payments back.
That means that in the electorate, the unemployed (what, around 6%), students on government loans, pensioners, invalids, public sector workers, unionists and education and health workers will ALWAYS vote for government excess. Always.
You don't work, you don't vote. You pay tax, you vote on its use and distribution. Not until you contribute, can you have any say in the procurement and disposition of government revenue.
THAT'S what that deranged yet remarkably clear old geezer is saying. He doesn't pay tax...so he is not a citizen. He asks nothing of the government, and in turn gives nothing to it. He just wants to fish for his dinner.
And you think WE'VE got it right???
OP, he didn't "own" the Judge. I'm sure he was permitted to leave as he did, simply due to the fact that 'discretion' was utilized, for lack of a better term.
It would be like giving a homeless bum a ticket for jaywalking... A waste of paper, ink, and time. Sometimes some people just don't cause enough harm to society, to really warrant a hefty (to them) punishment. Just like how most cops will turn a blind eye to one possessing a joint or two.
Okay where does this all end? If you don't vote and it becomes the excuse to not adhere to the laws of the land then what happens when the opportunistic portion of society gets wind of this? I'll tell you what will happen; the concept will become a meal ticket for thousands of fringe dwellers to do just as they please at the expense of the taxpayer. You will have in essence created another group of lawless fucking parasites.
Does the government ask and take too much from us? Yes it most definitely does but if you want to change that it needs to be done within the system, otherwise anarchy will be the order of the day.
This whole concept of "natural law" is being perverted by a select few nut balls and it is blatant nonsense.
The laws are there, and then some. That Judge could have had his ass hauled off the minute he wouldn't shut his yap.
Understand that the objective of policing is to ensure a society safe for the masses (or in theory it is). There is really nothing more to it than that.
Similar to ticketing a homeless bum for jaywalking, there is a limit as to how many resources can be spent to enforce and punish.
Another important topic to address is how the cops, the justice system, and the prison system have now become mental health professionals, and mental health 'housers.' Not long ago, the nuts would go to the nuthouse. Now the nuthouses are closing down. These people now end up in a system with individuals that aren't always trained to handle them.
I saw a security guard from a government building yelling at a young teenager for picking flowers out of the flower bed in front of the building. The teenager said government buildings are public and the flowers belong to everyone. The security man said" that is correct the flowers belong to everyone, to everyone who lives in the city including myself. What gives you the right to take flowers which belong to me and all my neighbors?" Fish belong to everybody. Why did this man think it was OK to take my fish?
Quote from: "Leopardsocks"
Quote from: "Fashionista"
I don't vote Leopardsocks.
I understand.
In Oz, voting is compulsory...although I suspect not for much longer.
But, NOT voting is condoning the status quo. The real issue is you are not motivated enough to vote because you do not care which party wins, and you are not offered options that would encourage you to do so.
Furthermore, the voting process itself is archaic.
But if someone presented to your electorate with new ideas, and a commitment to change...would you vote then?
At every election, my mailbox is flooded with pamphlets, candidates show up at my church and at my door..
The rest of the time they pay no attention to me and my family..
My trust is in my husband, my family, my doctor, my church. my neighbours and my friends.
The role of good government is to facilitate the transfer of money from those who worked for it to those that don't. People should not have to work if they don't want to. Free housing, clothing, food, transportation, education and vacations should be a right.
Quote from: "Renee"
Does the government ask and take too much from us? Yes it most definitely does but if you want to change that it needs to be done within the system, otherwise anarchy will be the order of the day.
This whole concept of "natural law" is being perverted by a select few nut balls and it is blatant nonsense.
This ends when Governments start acting responsibly with other peoples' money.
Yes, we need health care...but with sensible limitations. If your kid has a snotty nose and you feel going to the doctor makes you a better parent, then you pay.
If you suffer serious illness that requires a costly treatment, we pay.
If you suffer a terminal illness and you are over 75...make your arrangements. Euthanasia will be provided on request.
Drug addict or smoker? Fuck off...why should we care more about your health than you do?
Single mothers who clearly breed recklessly and indifferently...tough shit, lady. You made your choice. No you pay. Although, alternately, the fathers will pay.
As to education...will someone tell me why we force our children into an education system more tailored to teachers than the children themselves?
I'll tell you to stop making ignorant claims about the education system.
Quote from: "Leopardsocks"
Don't hate on us smokers... We pay our share, and more. Taxes generated by tobacco sales in Canada:
2010-2011:
2011-2012:
2012-2013:
Obesity is a far bigger issue. That, and smokers generally die fairly rapidly, therefor not causing excess strain on the system (relative to the taxes we've contributed over the years, as outlined above).
Australian tax rates on tobacco are almost identical to those of Canada, so assume similar figures as above also.
Quote from: "RW"
Oh, by all means, step right up and stick your chin out as far as you can.
Oh you know I will!
Quote from: "Lucky Number 8"
Quote from: "Leopardsocks"
Don't hate on us smokers... We pay our share, and more. Taxes generated by tobacco sales in Canada:
2010-2011:
2011-2012:
2012-2013:
Australian tax rates on tobacco are almost identical to those of Canada, so assume similar figures as above also.
Both of them are very unhealthy..
I don't care if smokers dying prematurely is good for taxpayers either.
I've been smoking for 20 years. I'm more fit than the majority of non-smokers my age.
I come from a family of heavy smokers. Each and every one lived past 80 with no health issues, and death came relatively quick.
Quote from: "Lucky Number 8"
I come from a family of heavy smokers. Each and every one lived past 80 with no health issues, and death came relatively quick.
Genetics determines a lot about health.
Exactly!
Quote from: "Leopardsocks"
This ends when Governments start acting responsibly with other peoples' money.
Yes, we need health care...but with sensible limitations. If your kid has a snotty nose and you feel going to the doctor makes you a better parent, then you pay.
If you suffer serious illness that requires a costly treatment, we pay.
If you suffer a terminal illness and you are over 75...make your arrangements. Euthanasia will be provided on request.
Drug addict or smoker? Fuck off...why should we care more about your health than you do?
Single mothers who clearly breed recklessly and indifferently...tough shit, lady. You made your choice. No you pay. Although, alternately, the fathers will pay.
As to education...will someone tell me why we force our children into an education system more tailored to teachers than the children themselves?
I would like to see spending targetting administrators and executives in health and education slashed dramatically. They are not front line workers and some have salaries in the $500k/annum. They are a waste of our money and do not affect front line delivery. Sell CBC too while we are at it.
I can't argue with that Shen.
There are so many ways the government could save administrative costs that wouldn't affect delivery.
I love how smokers say I've been smoking for 450 centuries and I'm as healthy as the next guy.
I wish I could then open up their chest, and show them their own lungs. The sticky, malodourous brown-black tar...the very same tar that smoke produces in any environment, coating their lungs. Their respiratory system at a youthful age has adapted to continue functioning with only half its allocated resources...but soon gets tired, and starts to break down at around 50 years of age. If you're lucky.
Because they may see yellow-white pustules forming in the lungs. Small at first.
These are the cancer cells, just quietly going about their business.
Quote from: "Leopardsocks"
I love how you failed to respond to the tax revenue figures that are generated by tobacco sales...
And yes, some of us smokers aren't as "unhealthy" as you may think!
Now, put me back on ignore. Clearly something happened in the control panel, and it came "off." Make sure to let RW and Renee know also, that posts are suddenly coming off of ignore here lately. Admin should look into it.
No posts are coming off ignore, Ace.
Quote from: "Renee"
Clearly the ignore function is broken for you also...
Have you let the Admin know about this?
I use the ignore function selectively. It comes in handy during your drunken tirades.
I bet! Make sure Leopardsocks and RW don't find out you've been cheating on them. They'll be furious...
Quote from: "RW"
There are so many ways the government could save administrative costs that wouldn't affect delivery.
There are some others too. Rail inspectors are a waste of money. They make the odd visit to CN or CP and end sitting in the network management centres listening in on RTC radio transmissions.
Roadmasters and their deputies do all weekly infrastructure inspections and then dole out repair work to section crews or the larger gangs depending on the size of repairs needed and whether it is urgent or not. Slashing their jobs will not and never has affected rail safety. Don't let the enemies of this government who do not understand how the industry works frighten you.