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General Discussion => The Flea Trap => Topic started by: Anonymous on May 22, 2015, 09:57:14 PM

Title: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: Anonymous on May 22, 2015, 09:57:14 PM
First telling Obongo to do the right thing and approve Keystone XL and now telling us to drop the pointless class warfare shit. Poverty is the problem not someone being rich.
QuoteThe world's third-richest man weighed in on the national debate over rising levels of income disparity in the United States yesterday, saying that while the gaps between the country's haves and have nots are definitely increasing, it is not the fault of those at the top. Nor will it be solved by traditional methods, like improving education or hiking the minimum wage. His solution: a pragmatic, direct way of helping incomes rise for the working poor across America by increasing access to the Earned Income Tax Credit.



"No conspiracy lies behind this depressing fact: The poor are most definitely not poor because the rich are rich," Buffett, who's net worth we clock in at $71.3 billion, wrote in a Wall Street Journal opinion piece published late yesterday. "Nor are the rich undeserving. Most of them have contributed brilliant innovations or managerial expertise to America's well-being. We all live far better because of Henry Ford, Steve Jobs, Sam Walton and the like. Instead, this widening gap is an inevitable consequence of an advanced market-based economy."



That's not to say the gap isn't growing. Citing data from The Forbes 400 list of the richest Americans, he said that the total net worth of those on the list in 1982, the first year the list was compiled, was $93 billion. In 2014, that number was $2.3 trillion, up 2,400%. At the same time, median household income in the United States rose only about 180%, he said.



Improving education, won't work fast enough, or go far enough, he said. And fighting to raise the minimum wage—currently in vogue among many on the left—won't bridge the gap either, he says, and may actually backfire by hurting employment.   "The better answer," he said, is an expansion of the earned income tax credit, a federal tax credit targeted at working class Americans which gives them a credit starting with the first dollar they earn and rises until it hits a ceiling, then phases out from there.



According to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, more than 27 million taxpayers got the ETIC in 2013 and in the 2012 tax year, the average EITC was $2,982 for a family with children.



"There is no disincentive effect: A gain in wages always produces a gain in overall income," writes Buffett. "The process is simple: You file a tax return, and the government sends you a check. In essence, the EITC rewards work and provides an incentive for workers to improve their skills. Equally important, it does not distort market forces, thereby maximizing employment. "



That distortion is the main criticism of opponents of raising the minimum wage. Arbitrarily increasing the amount employers are required to pay workers, as cities like Seattle, and most recently Los Angeles have done, is a disincentive to hiring or retaining workers, especially those at the lower end of the economic latter who most need a job.



"I may wish to have all jobs pay at least $15 an hour," writes Buffett. "But that minimum would almost certainly reduce employment in a major way, crushing many workers possessing only basic skills. Smaller increases, though obviously welcome, will still leave many hardworking Americans mired in poverty."



It's an argument that probably won't sit well with many on the left accustomed to blaming employers and the rich for the pain of the poor, but, like most things Buffett says and does, it isn't aimed at being popular. It's aimed at actually getting something done.

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/markets/buffett-stop-blaming-the-rich-for-income-inequality/ar-BBk7Alo?ocid=mailsignoutmd
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: Renee on May 22, 2015, 10:15:48 PM
None of this gathers votes on the political left so don't expect one wit of what Buffet has to say on this subject to gain any traction with the democrats and their minions.



"You didn't build that"

President Odumbo
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: Anonymous on May 22, 2015, 10:31:23 PM
Quote from: "Renee"None of this gathers votes on the political left so don't expect one wit of what Buffet has to say on this subject to gain any traction with the democrats and their minions.



"You didn't build that"

President Odumbo

It did when he was saying his secretary pays a lower rate of taxes than he does. He is yesterday's flava of the week for the American left.
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: cc on May 22, 2015, 10:40:19 PM
I thought it was the other way around? .. then my recycle bin cuts in automatically after a year
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: Renee on May 22, 2015, 10:48:02 PM
Quote from: "cc la femme"I thought it was the other way around? .. then my recycle bin cuts in automatically after a year


It was, the sleazy old bastard tried to make the case that the middle class paid more in taxes than the rich. It was exactly the kind of lie the political left in the US eats up and gets an assload of traction out of. Which makes this latest outburst all the more perplexing. One has to wonder who is cozying up to now and why.
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: Romero on May 22, 2015, 10:58:44 PM
In adjusted dollars, the US minimum wage was higher in 1968 than it is today. In 1965, CEOs earned 20 times what their workers made and today  it's around 230 times more.



Doesn't sound fair to me. The average American doesn't deserve to make as much as they would have made in 1968? That was nearly 50 years ago! Yet incomes and profits for the wealthy have never been higher. Gee, I wonder how that happened? Welcome back to the Industrial Revolution. Hey, we have to compete with slave labour in Asia so I can buy another mansion.



Buffett is worth over $70 billion. He's living in a fantasy world. Inequality has made him so greedy and wealthy, it's like asking a crack addict what they think about more crack. He has the mentality of a medieval king. Not exactly an unbiased expert on the subject.



People living on minimum wage can't hide their profits in shell companies and the Cayman Islands. They don't get millions of dollars in tax breaks because, well, they don't quite have the millions of dollars to get them or lobby for them.



Yet asking for enough money just to live on while working hard is too much. The 99% have to sacrifice while the 1% conveniently lap it all up.



Buffet is no Henry Ford or Steve Jobs. He made all his money by simply investing other people's money.



It's certainly not the poor causing income equality.
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: cc on May 22, 2015, 11:12:25 PM
Quote from: "renee's sig" "Inside some of us is a thin person struggling to get out, but they can usually be sedated with a few pieces of chocolate cake."

One of the best
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: Romero on May 22, 2015, 11:13:11 PM
QuoteSix global banks will pay more than $5.6bn to settle allegations that they rigged foreign exchange markets, in a scandal the FBI said involved criminality "on a massive scale".



Four banks also agreed to plead guilty to conspiring to fix prices and rig bids in the $5.3tn a day forex market, in what they hope will draw a line under one of the biggest cases of misconduct in banking since the global financial crisis.



One Barclays trader wrote in a November 5, 2010 chat: "If you aint cheating, you aint trying", according to the New York Department of Financial Services, which was part of the settlement.



"Questions will be asked as to why no CEO or senior figure has resigned at any of these banks as the size of this fine and the investigations so far have revealed the rigging of forex was part of the culture of these banks," he said.



The revelation that traders colluded to move around currency exchange rates was particularly embarrassing for the banks because it occurred after they had paid billions of dollars to settle claims that their traders had tried to rig interbank lending rates.



//http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/23fa681c-fe73-11e4-be9f-00144feabdc0.html#slide0

When someone steals $5, it's a crime. When banks steal $5 billion, they're rewarded with a slap on the wrist, bonuses and higher profits. Billions in fraud and not one single fraudster sees any jail time.
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: Renee on May 22, 2015, 11:41:32 PM
And our resident left-O-nut comes out of the woodwork.



Yes, yes everyone who flips burgers or stocks a grocery store shelf DESERVES $15 dollars an hour or more. ac_toofunny It's only.......FAIR!  ac_rollseyes
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: Bricktop on May 23, 2015, 12:19:21 AM
Quote from: "Romero"
QuoteSix global banks will pay more than $5.6bn to settle allegations that they rigged foreign exchange markets, in a scandal the FBI said involved criminality "on a massive scale".



Four banks also agreed to plead guilty to conspiring to fix prices and rig bids in the $5.3tn a day forex market, in what they hope will draw a line under one of the biggest cases of misconduct in banking since the global financial crisis.



One Barclays trader wrote in a November 5, 2010 chat: "If you aint cheating, you aint trying", according to the New York Department of Financial Services, which was part of the settlement.



"Questions will be asked as to why no CEO or senior figure has resigned at any of these banks as the size of this fine and the investigations so far have revealed the rigging of forex was part of the culture of these banks," he said.



The revelation that traders colluded to move around currency exchange rates was particularly embarrassing for the banks because it occurred after they had paid billions of dollars to settle claims that their traders had tried to rig interbank lending rates.



//http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/23fa681c-fe73-11e4-be9f-00144feabdc0.html#slide0

When someone steals $5, it's a crime. When banks steal $5 billion, they're rewarded with a slap on the wrist, bonuses and higher profits. Billions in fraud and not one single fraudster sees any jail time.


The irony goes further. If the banks are fined, and their bottom line is threatened, what do they, and every other corporation in that situation do?



Raise their prices and pass the loss to their customers.



They should not just be fined; the management must be compelled to resign, without salary or remuneration, and ALL profit allocated to welfare and public benefit. Crimes such as those which they have been found guilty of should be punished with REAL force.
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: Bricktop on May 23, 2015, 12:24:02 AM
Quote from: "Romero"In adjusted dollars, the US minimum wage was higher in 1968 than it is today. In 1965, CEOs earned 20 times what their workers made and today  it's around 230 times more.



Doesn't sound fair to me. The average American doesn't deserve to make as much as they would have made in 1968? That was nearly 50 years ago! Yet incomes and profits for the wealthy have never been higher. Gee, I wonder how that happened? Welcome back to the Industrial Revolution. Hey, we have to compete with slave labour in Asia so I can buy another mansion.



Buffett is worth over $70 billion. He's living in a fantasy world. Inequality has made him so greedy and wealthy, it's like asking a crack addict what they think about more crack. He has the mentality of a medieval king. Not exactly an unbiased expert on the subject.



People living on minimum wage can't hide their profits in shell companies and the Cayman Islands. They don't get millions of dollars in tax breaks because, well, they don't quite have the millions of dollars to get them or lobby for them.



Yet asking for enough money just to live on while working hard is too much. The 99% have to sacrifice while the 1% conveniently lap it all up.



Buffet is no Henry Ford or Steve Jobs. He made all his money by simply investing other people's money.



It's certainly not the poor causing income equality.


I agree. A multi-billionaire with more money than he could ever spend saying "Don't blame me" is an insult to our intelligence. Not only that, it only enhances the growing anger of the populace to these parasitic, pompous charlatans.



When one of these obscene and prosperous tries to say its OK for him to have 70 billion whilst some of his COUNTRYMEN are struggling to eat, or visit a doctor, or receive an education, there is a massive inequity and social injustice. It is exactly that "let them eat cake" attitude which saw a lot of French wealthy part company with their head.
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: asal on May 23, 2015, 12:34:56 AM
Quote from: "Renee"And our resident left-O-nut comes out of the woodwork.



Yes, yes everyone who flips burgers or stocks a grocery store shelf DESERVES $15 dollars an hour or more. ac_toofunny It's only.......FAIR!  ac_rollseyes


The top can spare some for the lower rung.  It's 2015 - wages have been stagnant our whole lives.  $15 is completely reasonable (or it wouldn't have gone this far to be implemented - it's a tough argument to ask for a piece that threatens the bottom line). ac_sothere
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: asal on May 23, 2015, 12:37:34 AM
Quote from: "Romero"
QuoteSix global banks will pay more than $5.6bn to settle allegations that they rigged foreign exchange markets, in a scandal the FBI said involved criminality "on a massive scale".



Four banks also agreed to plead guilty to conspiring to fix prices and rig bids in the $5.3tn a day forex market, in what they hope will draw a line under one of the biggest cases of misconduct in banking since the global financial crisis.



One Barclays trader wrote in a November 5, 2010 chat: "If you aint cheating, you aint trying", according to the New York Department of Financial Services, which was part of the settlement.



"Questions will be asked as to why no CEO or senior figure has resigned at any of these banks as the size of this fine and the investigations so far have revealed the rigging of forex was part of the culture of these banks," he said.



The revelation that traders colluded to move around currency exchange rates was particularly embarrassing for the banks because it occurred after they had paid billions of dollars to settle claims that their traders had tried to rig interbank lending rates.



//http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/23fa681c-fe73-11e4-be9f-00144feabdc0.html#slide0

When someone steals $5, it's a crime. When banks steal $5 billion, they're rewarded with a slap on the wrist, bonuses and higher profits. Billions in fraud and not one single fraudster sees any jail time.


I saw something today you'll like:



(//%3C/s%3E%3CURL%20url=%22https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10408845_1125750300775298_2052447650935350164_n.jpg?oh=bb3c6a397dfcf660f4b75316d8249451&oe=55C20389%22%3E%3CLINK_TEXT%20text=%22https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp%20...%20e=55C20389%22%3Ehttps://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10408845_1125750300775298_2052447650935350164_n.jpg?oh=bb3c6a397dfcf660f4b75316d8249451&oe=55C20389%3C/LINK_TEXT%3E%3C/URL%3E%3Ce%3E)
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: Renee on May 23, 2015, 01:17:51 AM
Quote from: "asal"
Quote from: "Renee"And our resident left-O-nut comes out of the woodwork.



Yes, yes everyone who flips burgers or stocks a grocery store shelf DESERVES $15 dollars an hour or more. ac_toofunny It's only.......FAIR!  ac_rollseyes


The top can spare some for the lower rung.  It's 2015 - wages have been stagnant our whole lives.  $15 is completely reasonable (or it wouldn't have gone this far to be implemented - it's a tough argument to ask for a piece that threatens the bottom line). ac_sothere


When are people like you going to fully understand the damaging implications of what you propose and want? Is that ever going to happen in my lifetime? Just let me know now if I should give up hope.
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: asal on May 23, 2015, 01:25:16 AM
ac_cool   You see it as damaging.  In the short term it is.  In the long term things would be more stable than they are now.  This would be such a challenge to argue.  The thing is, it won't happen as we want (those of us who want better low income wages) in our lifetime.  That is my reassurance to you.   ac_flower  It's an academic exercise only, but it would be nice.
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: Odinson on May 23, 2015, 04:31:14 AM
Quote from: "asal"
Quote from: "Romero"
QuoteSix global banks will pay more than $5.6bn to settle allegations that they rigged foreign exchange markets, in a scandal the FBI said involved criminality "on a massive scale".



Four banks also agreed to plead guilty to conspiring to fix prices and rig bids in the $5.3tn a day forex market, in what they hope will draw a line under one of the biggest cases of misconduct in banking since the global financial crisis.



One Barclays trader wrote in a November 5, 2010 chat: "If you aint cheating, you aint trying", according to the New York Department of Financial Services, which was part of the settlement.



"Questions will be asked as to why no CEO or senior figure has resigned at any of these banks as the size of this fine and the investigations so far have revealed the rigging of forex was part of the culture of these banks," he said.



The revelation that traders colluded to move around currency exchange rates was particularly embarrassing for the banks because it occurred after they had paid billions of dollars to settle claims that their traders had tried to rig interbank lending rates.



//http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/23fa681c-fe73-11e4-be9f-00144feabdc0.html#slide0

When someone steals $5, it's a crime. When banks steal $5 billion, they're rewarded with a slap on the wrist, bonuses and higher profits. Billions in fraud and not one single fraudster sees any jail time.


I saw something today you'll like:



(//%3C/s%3E%3CURL%20url=%22https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10408845_1125750300775298_2052447650935350164_n.jpg?oh=bb3c6a397dfcf660f4b75316d8249451&oe=55C20389%22%3E%3CLINK_TEXT%20text=%22https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp%20...%20e=55C20389%22%3Ehttps://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10408845_1125750300775298_2052447650935350164_n.jpg?oh=bb3c6a397dfcf660f4b75316d8249451&oe=55C20389%3C/LINK_TEXT%3E%3C/URL%3E%3Ce%3E)


Not fair...



Iceland doesnt have nogsters...
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: Bricktop on May 23, 2015, 04:38:37 AM
Quote from: "Renee"
Quote from: "asal"
Quote from: "Renee"And our resident left-O-nut comes out of the woodwork.



Yes, yes everyone who flips burgers or stocks a grocery store shelf DESERVES $15 dollars an hour or more. ac_toofunny It's only.......FAIR!  ac_rollseyes


The top can spare some for the lower rung.  It's 2015 - wages have been stagnant our whole lives.  $15 is completely reasonable (or it wouldn't have gone this far to be implemented - it's a tough argument to ask for a piece that threatens the bottom line). ac_sothere


When are people like you going to fully understand the damaging implications of what you propose and want? Is that ever going to happen in my lifetime? Just let me know now if I should give up hope.


How about YOU identify these "damaging implications"?



Bill Gates has to survive on 10 million dollars a year?



What you ignore is that the wealth he possesses comes directly from the people who now struggle. It was never his in the first place. Likewise all these mega-rich assholes.



They can part with half their wealth and not suffer ONE iota.
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: Anonymous on May 23, 2015, 05:46:52 AM
Warren Buffet seems like such a kind, grandfatherly man..



He may not be as kind so kind, but he seems that way though.
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: Odinson on May 23, 2015, 05:58:58 AM
Having talked to the coloured people and their self-hating white followers in the USA... Just facepalm..



Really frustrating conversation.



Either I´m being seriously trolled or these monkeys really think that education and paying taxes is some kind of a white conspiracy.
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: Renee on May 23, 2015, 07:28:00 AM
Quote from: "SPECTRE"
Quote from: "Renee"
Quote from: "asal"
Quote from: "Renee"And our resident left-O-nut comes out of the woodwork.



Yes, yes everyone who flips burgers or stocks a grocery store shelf DESERVES $15 dollars an hour or more. ac_toofunny It's only.......FAIR!  ac_rollseyes


The top can spare some for the lower rung.  It's 2015 - wages have been stagnant our whole lives.  $15 is completely reasonable (or it wouldn't have gone this far to be implemented - it's a tough argument to ask for a piece that threatens the bottom line). ac_sothere


When are people like you going to fully understand the damaging implications of what you propose and want? Is that ever going to happen in my lifetime? Just let me know now if I should give up hope.


How about YOU identify these "damaging implications"?



Bill Gates has to survive on 10 million dollars a year?



What you ignore is that the wealth he possesses comes directly from the people who now struggle. It was never his in the first place. Likewise all these mega-rich assholes.



They can part with half their wealth and not suffer ONE iota.




I was referring to the issue of raising the minimum wage and it's historical effect on the job market and economy. I'm not talking about wether or not the mega rich can afford to spare a dime. If you can't follow along then STFU.



Furthermore asal knew exactly what I was referring to which makes her smarter and more perceptive than you. The concerns over raising the minium wage are well documented and always the same. The path through this discussion is well worn and we'll traveled. It is not my problem if blockheads like you get lost along the way.



You asked me to elaborate my position on this and I say it wasn't unnecessary to do so. Maybe a better question for you to ask is "Why do you (Leo) constantly give me (Renee) the opportunity to abuse the shit out of you (Leo) like this"?
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: Renee on May 23, 2015, 08:42:56 AM
Quote from: "asal"ac_cool   You see it as damaging.  In the short term it is.  In the long term things would be more stable than they are now.  This would be such a challenge to argue.  The thing is, it won't happen as we want (those of us who want better low income wages) in our lifetime.  That is my reassurance to you.   ac_flower  It's an academic exercise only, but it would be nice.


You have to remember that most of the business in the US are small and medium size businesses. They also create the lion's share of the jobs. These businesses are not owned by the Buffet's and Gate's of the world. A rise in the minimum wage as dramatic as what some are calling for would be a huge shit sandwich these small companies would have to swallow. Ultimately we would all have to take a bite so I don't see the win long or short term.
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: J0E on May 23, 2015, 10:22:43 AM
Here's how the minimum wage compares around the globe:



 http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_wages_by_country



(//%3C/s%3E%3CURL%20url=%22http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0b/Map_of_global_minimum_wages_per_hour_in_USD.svg/640px-Map_of_global_minimum_wages_per_hour_in_USD.svg.png%22%3E%3CLINK_TEXT%20text=%22http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c%20...%20SD.svg.png%22%3Ehttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0b/Map_of_global_minimum_wages_per_hour_in_USD.svg/640px-Map_of_global_minimum_wages_per_hour_in_USD.svg.png%3C/LINK_TEXT%3E%3C/URL%3E%3Ce%3E)



Australia, New Zealand & many European countries have the highest minimum wages in the world.
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: RW on May 23, 2015, 05:45:43 PM
Quote from: "Renee"
Quote from: "asal"ac_cool   You see it as damaging.  In the short term it is.  In the long term things would be more stable than they are now.  This would be such a challenge to argue.  The thing is, it won't happen as we want (those of us who want better low income wages) in our lifetime.  That is my reassurance to you.   ac_flower  It's an academic exercise only, but it would be nice.


You have to remember that most of the business in the US are small and medium size businesses. They also create the lion's share of the jobs. These businesses are not owned by the Buffet's and Gate's of the world. A rise in the minimum wage as dramatic as what some are calling for would be a huge shit sandwich these small companies would have to swallow. Ultimately we would all have to take a bite so I don't see the win long or short term.

Most places that pay minimum wage are the Mc jobs.  I don't think small and medium businesses would really feel much of a burn at because they have few employees.
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: cc on May 23, 2015, 06:20:07 PM
That logic fails. Small business's have less employees and also less income .. ususally proportional  .. they feel increased costs much moreso



They also need to make a higher % against costs to survive .. large businesses can and usually do run on quite low % profits while maintaining a large actual profit in dollars .. small ones do not because they cannot do so and at the same time support the owner(s) with a living profit / wage



Take for example a total sales of 200,000 ... or even more .. there must be a high % profit just to survive and feed the owners let alone make a profit
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: RW on May 23, 2015, 06:27:07 PM
Large business runs on low profits?  Since when?
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: cc on May 23, 2015, 06:53:00 PM
I did NOT say that ... That's a Querky approach to what I was saying. ... although in many cases large firms must run lean on  profit %  to compete .. many types make a lot of total $ but % profit is lean. I DID say it can and often does run on lower profit ratio then small businesses who must be high % just to survive



Specifically. I was addressing your " I don't think small and medium businesses would really feel much of a burn at because they have few employees." as the very opposite of reality .. and of necessity .. they don't have the overall dollars as cushion .... i.e. they usually have no slack to play with
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: RW on May 23, 2015, 07:08:12 PM
Where are you getting this from cc?



The funny thing is, minimum wage goes up to meet inflation and small businesses seem to be able to manage the increase as they do it all the time.



Explain.
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: Anonymous on May 23, 2015, 09:43:20 PM
This whole subject should be common sense, but as we can see from Romero's posts sense is not so common.



Why were wage increases higher and taxes lower in the 1960's? It's demographics stupid. More people being productive, younger population, fewer seniors and they didn't live as long. This all means less burden on health care, CPP/OAS. More workers for every retiree compared to now.



Jump forward 45 years and you have fewer workers supporting more seniors, more people requiring major health care. If it wasn't for immigration we would be like Japan with more seniors in diapers than babies. If we want wages above the steady tax increases/gouging, we have to have more babies. Older societies like those in the West/Japan have anemic growth rates while incurring higher costs. It's really that simple.



As for what CEO's/rock stars/actors/athletes make, how does that have any affect on our low growth trajectory?
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: RW on May 23, 2015, 09:50:38 PM
We didn't ship all our jobs to China back then.  Technology isn't what it was then either.  These are both major factors in terms of work force composition.  I would say more so than demographics.



What good is excess personal wealth in terms of a demonstrable economic benefit?
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: Anonymous on May 23, 2015, 09:57:29 PM
Quote from: "RW"We didn't ship all our jobs to China back then.  Technology isn't what it was then either.  These are both major factors in terms of work force composition.  I would say more so than demographics.



What good is excess personal wealth in terms of a demonstrable economic benefit?

If we shipped all those jobs back, we would need to bring in more temporary foreigners to do them because Canadians won't. Technology has indeed changed and made things Westerners would have saved for a year or more readily available to everyone, but that works with your point about overseas manufacturing. Demographic and economic decline go hand in hand.



As for excess personal wealth eh? If we are talking about Alec Baldwin or Kanye West, I agree they are wastes of skin and contribute nothing. Buffet and Gates, no fucking way.
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: RW on May 23, 2015, 10:10:31 PM
I'm talking about their personal wealth.  What does it do for the economy?
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: Anonymous on May 23, 2015, 10:36:26 PM
Quote from: "RW"I'm talking about their personal wealth.  What does it do for the economy?

Again Baldwin and Kanye West, sweet fuck all. Buffet and Gates, well that's a different story.



Anyway, you can decide yourself if people are overcompensated. Don't go see a professional hockey game if you feel athletes make too much. Don't buy use Facebook if you feel Zuckerberg is overpaid. I boycott Muslim owned business because I find their ideology repugnant. If you have a similar moral objection to wealthy entertainers, athletes and business owners, stop making them richer.
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: RW on May 23, 2015, 10:38:25 PM
You haven't answered my question.  I'm asking about PERSONAL wealth.  who the hell needs a billion dollars?!
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: cc on May 23, 2015, 10:38:33 PM
No one. But seems it happens to a few. Wealthy businesses usually support many employees ... "personal wealth" is usually used in stocks etc. and with only a few exceptions  has little to no benefit to mankind.



"If you have a similar moral objection to wealthy entertainers, athletes and business owners, stop making them richer." In the main, done. Only rarely do I watch sports and mainly because it is so ludicrous in payroll. Similar for major Hollywood types.



What we pay celebs of all types is sick  sick  sick
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: Anonymous on May 23, 2015, 10:43:14 PM
Quote from: "RW"You haven't answered my question.  I'm asking about PERSONAL wealth.  who the hell needs a billion dollars?!

I did answer it. Baldwin and West do not help anyone except their greedy selves, which is none of my business evn though I hate them. Gates money is sure helping the people of India. Buffet is giving away most of his wealth too.
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: RW on May 23, 2015, 10:44:45 PM
Quote from: "cc la femme"No one. But seems it happens to a few. Wealthy businesses usually support many employees ... "personal wealth" is usually used in stocks etc. and with only a few exceptions  has little to no benefit to mankind.



"If you have a similar moral objection to wealthy entertainers, athletes and business owners, stop making them richer." In the main, done. Only rarely do I watch sports and mainly because it is so ludicrous in payroll



What we pay celebs of all types is sick  sick  sick

I agree.  It's gross.
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: RW on May 23, 2015, 10:46:11 PM
Quote from: "Shen Li"
Quote from: "RW"You haven't answered my question.  I'm asking about PERSONAL wealth.  who the hell needs a billion dollars?!

I did answer it. Baldwin and West do not help anyone except their greedy selves, which is none of my business evn though I hate them. Gates money is sure helping the people of India. Buffet is giving away most of his wealth too.

So Gates shipped his personal wealth off to India which doesn't help the US economy and what about Buffet?
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: Anonymous on May 23, 2015, 10:47:44 PM
Quote from: "cc la femme"No one. But seems it happens to a few. Wealthy businesses usually support many employees ... "personal wealth" is usually used in stocks etc. and with only a few exceptions  has little to no benefit to mankind.



What we pay celebs of all types is sick  sick  sick

Yeah, despite having $70 billion net worth, Buffet's lifestyle does not reflect it. His wealth is indeed a great benefit to mankind.



Celebutards on the other hand are not worth minimum wage.
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: RW on May 23, 2015, 10:49:09 PM
How is Buffet's wealth a benefit to mankind?



He sounds like a sick ass money hoarder to me.
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: Anonymous on May 23, 2015, 10:52:21 PM
Quote from: "RW"
Quote from: "Shen Li"
Quote from: "RW"You haven't answered my question.  I'm asking about PERSONAL wealth.  who the hell needs a billion dollars?!

I did answer it. Baldwin and West do not help anyone except their greedy selves, which is none of my business evn though I hate them. Gates money is sure helping the people of India. Buffet is giving away most of his wealth too.

So Gates shipped his personal wealth off to India which doesn't help the US economy and what about Buffet?

Excuse me, helping India which will soon be the most populous nation on earth is NOT a help to the US economy?? I guess a growing Indian economy won't want to buy American products and resources. ac_rollseyes



Buffet was ranked as the most charitable man in the world in 2014 giving $2.1 billion to the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation in the form of 16.6 million shares of his company, according to Wealth-X's ranking of the 10 largest philanthropic donations of 2014.



No offense RW, but I am surprised you didn't know these things. It's not like Gates and Buffet are unknowns.
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: RW on May 23, 2015, 10:58:15 PM
Oh I know about their private foundation hand shaking and such.  India is seeing a surge in economic growth while the Gates's focus mainly on health issues, especially infectious diseases.  They also focus on poverty.  That is not stimulating the U.S. economy.  Sorry.  Buffet tis also a big contributor to the Gates Foundation (no surprise there).



Take a look at his charity list:



https://www.looktothestars.org/celebrity/warren-buffett



Not exactly the pinnacle of economic boosting.
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: Anonymous on May 23, 2015, 10:59:26 PM
All this is in addition to his companies helping Canadians and Americans save for their retirements and capitalizing companies.



Do you know an iconic Canadian owned corporation would have been Kaput if not for both Gates and Buffet?
QuoteAmount donated in 2012: about $3.1-billion



Top beneficiaries: Howard G. Buffett Foundation, NoVo Foundation, and the Sherwood Foundation.



Background: He is the chairman of Berkshire Hathaway, an insurance and investment company.



Mr. Buffett, age 82, pledged 12,220,852 shares of Berkshire Hathaway class "B" stock, valued at more than $1-billion, to each of his three children's foundations. The Howard G. Buffett Foundation gives money to agricultural development, clean-water projects, and programs working to fight poverty. The NoVo Foundation, co-founded by Peter Buffett and his wife, Jennifer, seeks to improve the well-being of girls and women globally and supports economic and education programs. The Sherwood Foundation, founded by daughter Susan Buffett, supports social-justice and early-childhood education.



This pledge follows a 2006 promise to give each foundation about $1-billion, which Mr. Buffett has been steadily paying off each year.



He will begin paying down this latest commitment later this year.



In addition, Mr. Buffett gave stock worth close to $1-million to a charity in 2012 that he declined to name and 10 shares of stock, currently valued at about $12,000 apiece, to each of 15 elementary-school students who won an educational contest sponsored by Mr. Buffett called the "Grow Your Own Business Challenge." The contest is associated with "The Secret Millionaires Club," an animated television show that features Mr. Buffet and seeks to teach children about business and personal finance.

https://philanthropy.com/article/No-1-Warren-Buffett/155467
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: RW on May 23, 2015, 11:01:24 PM
Most of these economic development foundations work outside of the U.S.
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: Anonymous on May 23, 2015, 11:08:39 PM
Quote from: "RW"Most of these economic development foundations work outside of the U.S.

They are heavily invested in US companies and individuals too.
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: RW on May 24, 2015, 07:02:49 PM
Such as?  I'm talking about their personal wealth here.
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: Bricktop on May 24, 2015, 08:25:49 PM
Quote from: "Shen Li"All this is in addition to his companies helping Canadians and Americans save for their retirements and capitalizing companies.



Do you know an iconic Canadian owned corporation would have been Kaput if not for both Gates and Buffet?
QuoteAmount donated in 2012: about $3.1-billion



Top beneficiaries: Howard G. Buffett Foundation, NoVo Foundation, and the Sherwood Foundation.



Background: He is the chairman of Berkshire Hathaway, an insurance and investment company.



Mr. Buffett, age 82, pledged 12,220,852 shares of Berkshire Hathaway class "B" stock, valued at more than $1-billion, to each of his three children's foundations. The Howard G. Buffett Foundation gives money to agricultural development, clean-water projects, and programs working to fight poverty. The NoVo Foundation, co-founded by Peter Buffett and his wife, Jennifer, seeks to improve the well-being of girls and women globally and supports economic and education programs. The Sherwood Foundation, founded by daughter Susan Buffett, supports social-justice and early-childhood education.



This pledge follows a 2006 promise to give each foundation about $1-billion, which Mr. Buffett has been steadily paying off each year.



He will begin paying down this latest commitment later this year.



In addition, Mr. Buffett gave stock worth close to $1-million to a charity in 2012 that he declined to name and 10 shares of stock, currently valued at about $12,000 apiece, to each of 15 elementary-school students who won an educational contest sponsored by Mr. Buffett called the "Grow Your Own Business Challenge." The contest is associated with "The Secret Millionaires Club," an animated television show that features Mr. Buffet and seeks to teach children about business and personal finance.

https://philanthropy.com/article/No-1-Warren-Buffett/155467


Well, its clear that their pseudo-philanthropic largess has at least ONE person fooled.



"I've got 70 billion and people are pissed. What shall I do?"



"Give less than one percent to some noble charity."



"Great idea!!! Then I can claim it as a tax deduction. Oh, and raise prices by 1 percent while we're at it. Then I can give even MORE away whilst not losing any money at all".
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: RW on May 24, 2015, 08:34:19 PM
Bingo.
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: Anonymous on May 24, 2015, 09:59:11 PM
I do not understand why anyone wants the kind of money and possessions that entertainers, athletes or business tycoons have..



But, it is not as wrong as coveting.
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: J0E on May 25, 2015, 12:15:40 AM
Warren Buffett says boosting the minimum wage won't help, but then fails to mention the fewer 'entitlements' which the average American gets in relation to his counterparts in other industrialized nations.



On top of having a lower minimum salary and having to work more hours, many American workers are not covered by medical insurance. So if he or she is making only $7 per hour and a European is making $16 per hour plus medical benefits and 4 weeks paid vacation per year, then the European has a much higher wage with all his or her benefits.



I think the average American worker would be green with envy if they really knew how shortchanged they are and how much less they're getting in relation to workers in other countries. Even Canada, which has a comparable minimum wage still gurarantees its poorest workers access to state run hosptials along with health insurance at competitive rates relative to the private US healthcare system.
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: RW on May 25, 2015, 12:19:52 AM
Quote from: "Fashionista"I do not understand why anyone wants the kind of money and possessions that entertainers, athletes or business tycoons have..



But, it is not as wrong as coveting.

I disagree.  It's greed.  Far worse than coveting IMHO.
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: easter bunny on May 25, 2015, 02:31:46 AM
Quote from: "Fashionista"I do not understand why anyone wants the kind of money and possessions that entertainers, athletes or business tycoons have..



But, it is not as wrong as coveting.

I think it's because our culture measures their "net worth" in dollars. It's like a bunch of little kids each demanding a little more ice cream than the other ones got. It satisfies their fragile little egos and makes them feel important.
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: Bricktop on May 25, 2015, 04:01:08 AM
Quote from: "Frank"Warren Buffett says boosting the minimum wage won't help, but then fails to mention the fewer 'entitlements' which the average American gets in relation to his counterparts in other industrialized nations.



On top of having a lower minimum salary and having to work more hours, many American workers are not covered by medical insurance. So if he or she is making only $7 per hour and a European is making $16 per hour plus medical benefits and 4 weeks paid vacation per year, then the European has a much higher wage with all his or her benefits.



I think the average American worker would be green with envy if they really knew how shortchanged they are and how much less they're getting in relation to workers in other countries. Even Canada, which has a comparable minimum wage still gurarantees its poorest workers access to state run hosptials along with health insurance at competitive rates relative to the private US healthcare system.


Right on. US workers, many who rely on tips, are getting screwed.



Meanwhile, the moguls make more and more money...
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: Odinson on May 25, 2015, 05:09:56 AM
Quote from: "Fashionista"I do not understand why anyone wants the kind of money and possessions that entertainers, athletes or business tycoons have..



But, it is not as wrong as coveting.


Wealth represents power...
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: Anonymous on May 25, 2015, 05:34:51 AM
Quote from: "easter bunny"
Quote from: "Fashionista"I do not understand why anyone wants the kind of money and possessions that entertainers, athletes or business tycoons have..



But, it is not as wrong as coveting.

I think it's because our culture measures their "net worth" in dollars. It's like a bunch of little kids each demanding a little more ice cream than the other ones got. It satisfies their fragile little egos and makes them feel important.

I agree easter bunny.

 ac_smile
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: Romero on May 26, 2015, 06:32:52 PM
QuoteAn Atlanta, Georgia television station has made national news with its fantastic investigative reporting on the conservative "corporate bill mill," ALEC, the American Legislative Exchange Council. The station's Brendan Keefe followed Georgia state legislators to a resort hotel in Savannah last week, trying to find out what they were doing in closed door meetings where he, as a credentialed reporter, was not allowed. He had to go to a former member of ALEC to find out.



"It's really a corporate bill mill," said Sen. Nan Orrock, an Atlanta Democrat who has served in both houses of the Georgia General Assembly for years. "They're cranking out legislation, putting it into the hands of legislators who go back and file it."



Orrock would know. She was once a member of ALEC.



"The corporations that are there have equal standing with the legislators," Sen. Orrock said.



"You mean they can vote?" we asked.



"They absolutely can vote, and truth be told, they write the bills," she answered, referring to the lobbyists.



//http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/05/26/1387897/-Atlanta-Georgia-station-exposes-ALEC-sausage-making
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: Bricktop on May 26, 2015, 07:57:53 PM
And this is the country that wants every other country to be just like them...



Fuck that.
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: J0E on May 26, 2015, 09:15:18 PM
Quote from: "RW"How is Buffet's wealth a benefit to mankind?



He sounds like a sick ass money hoarder to me.


Of course he is, as are the rest of the Super-Rich.



They can't possibly spend it in their lifetime, let alone 100 more.



It's all about the Power, Baby, all about the Power.



The same kind that allows some ugly 4'10" Jim Pattison-like Super-billionaire to have a bevy of Super-Models grovelling at his feet.



Or being able to tell off Governments, Heads of State,



and even other billionaires.....



ie - Larry Ellison, Oracle Super Billionaire, recently bought out the entire island of Lanai, once owned by Dole Pineapple & he outbid Bill Gates for the honor. So Larry can turn his nose up at his Microsoft Rival, and man that must feel goood.



....It's all about the Power, Baby, all about the Power.



And of course, money is power. The more they have of it, the better.
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: Bricktop on May 26, 2015, 09:25:32 PM
Money is NOT power.



It is only "power" in the sense that we allow the holders of it to dominate. We are in awe, so to speak, and acquiesce to their selfishness and greed like sheep to a sheepdog.



The "superwealthy" should be pilloried and despised, not respected and revered.



I have no issue with a successful man living on, say, 2 million a year...success should be rewarded. But 70 BILLION? No man is worth that much. He has harvested that obscene amount through deceit and greed.
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: RW on May 26, 2015, 10:18:08 PM
Quote from: "SPECTRE"Money is NOT power.



It is only "power" in the sense that we allow the holders of it to dominate. We are in awe, so to speak, and acquiesce to their selfishness and greed like sheep to a sheepdog.



The "superwealthy" should be pilloried and despised, not respected and revered.



I have no issue with a successful man living on, say, 2 million a year...success should be rewarded. But 70 BILLION? No man is worth that much. He has harvested that obscene amount through deceit and greed.

If you hoard cats or figurines or newspapers, or adult diapers, you are sick.



If you hoard money, you are successful.



WTF?
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: Bricktop on May 26, 2015, 10:20:28 PM
If someone has made THAT much money, they have clearly been ripping their customers off.



Same applies to Gates et al.



If their commodity makes them THAT rich, they have profited too much by charging more than the product is wortt.
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: RW on May 26, 2015, 10:21:27 PM
*cough* Apple Watch *cough*
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: Bricktop on May 26, 2015, 11:29:05 PM
Quote from: "RW"*cough* Apple Watch *cough*


I watch Apple all the time. What's your point?
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: RW on May 26, 2015, 11:42:52 PM
"Nothing.  Nothing.  God Bless."
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: Bricktop on May 27, 2015, 08:33:36 PM
Quote from: "RW""Nothing.  Nothing.  God Bless."


Watch it sister...
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: RW on May 27, 2015, 08:37:04 PM
Can you watch it for me?



Hahaha
Title: Re: Buffett: Stop Blaming The Rich For Income Inequality
Post by: Anonymous on May 27, 2015, 11:41:00 PM
Quote from: "Shen Li"This whole subject should be common sense, but as we can see from Romero's posts sense is not so common.



Why were wage increases higher and taxes lower in the 1960's? It's demographics stupid. More people being productive, younger population, fewer seniors and they didn't live as long. This all means less burden on health care, CPP/OAS. More workers for every retiree compared to now.



Jump forward 45 years and you have fewer workers supporting more seniors, more people requiring major health care. If it wasn't for immigration we would be like Japan with more seniors in diapers than babies. If we want wages above the steady tax increases/gouging, we have to have more babies. Older societies like those in the West/Japan have anemic growth rates while incurring higher costs. It's really that simple.



As for what CEO's/rock stars/actors/athletes make, how does that have any affect on our low growth trajectory?

Korea is going through this decline. The years of high wage growth are long gone and will never return. It is an aged society. Aged societies do not produce as much as younger ones. They also have weaker demand.
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