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General Discussion => The Flea Trap => Topic started by: Bricktop on June 18, 2015, 01:35:39 AM

Title: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Bricktop on June 18, 2015, 01:35:39 AM
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-06-18/nine-killed-in-south-carolina-church-shooting-police-say/6556142



So, how about some gun control?
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: cc on June 18, 2015, 01:42:45 AM
I want to cry.



9 blacks dead ... from one white scum
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Bricktop on June 18, 2015, 03:02:08 AM
Oh?



Is the colour important?



I would have thought the need to disarm your population as a matter or urgency would be the real issue.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Anonymous on June 18, 2015, 07:29:02 AM
Quote from: "SPECTRE"http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-06-18/nine-killed-in-south-carolina-church-shooting-police-say/6556142



So, how about some gun control?

 ac_crying
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: cc on June 18, 2015, 12:01:36 PM
QuoteIs the colour important?
In fact,  it appears to be the motive.



Oh. And it gets it a speech from the monarch
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: cc on June 18, 2015, 01:39:14 PM
Gov. Nikki Haley Chokes Up, "The Heart And Soul Of South Carolina Was Broken"...



Obama's first reactions was to politicize the tragedy and use it to push his agenda ... immediately



Critical moments like this bring out and show true character
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Romero on June 18, 2015, 04:40:53 PM
South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley has ordered flags to be flown at half-staff.



Yet the controversial Confederate flag at the capitol building is still at full-staff.



WTF
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Frost on June 18, 2015, 06:27:42 PM
Quote from: "Romero"South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley has ordered flags to be flown at half-staff.



Yet the controversial Confederate flag at the capitol building is still at full-staff.



WTF

That is messed up, i wonder why they left it up.

Being a battle flag it shouldn't be up anyhow.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Bricktop on June 18, 2015, 07:03:44 PM
The issue is not race!!!



Yes, the fruitcake that did this use race as his own private justification, but the clear reality is he is a nutjob, Class A, and how in the hell does a whacko like him get hold of powerful, lethal weaponry?



This is as much about race as Columbine was about the education system.



America's violent culture, combined with hordes of mentally ill people getting access to high powered weaponry is the problem.



Racism isn't going to go away...but you CAN make guns go away.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: @realAzhyaAryola on June 18, 2015, 07:14:07 PM
Quote from: "cc la femme"Gov. Nikki Haley Chokes Up, "The Heart And Soul Of South Carolina Was Broken"...



Obama's first reactions was to politicize the tragedy and use it to push his agenda ... immediately



Critical moments like this bring out and show true character


While his wife snickers.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Lance Leftardashian on June 18, 2015, 08:09:32 PM
Quote from: "SPECTRE"The issue is not race!!!



Yes, the fruitcake that did this use race as his own private justification, but the clear reality is he is a nutjob, Class A, and how in the hell does a whacko like him get hold of powerful, lethal weaponry?



This is as much about race as Columbine was about the education system.



America's violent culture, combined with hordes of mentally ill people getting access to high powered weaponry is the problem.



Racism isn't going to go away...but you CAN make guns go away.

He is not a fruitcake, he has a mental health problem that needs to be treated by taxpayer money.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Romero on June 18, 2015, 08:39:24 PM
Quote from: "Frost"
Quote from: "Romero"South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley has ordered flags to be flown at half-staff.



Yet the controversial Confederate flag at the capitol building is still at full-staff.



WTF

That is messed up, i wonder why they left it up.

Being a battle flag it shouldn't be up anyhow.

I just read it's illegal to lower or remove that specific flag by state law. Controversial indeed.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Romero on June 18, 2015, 08:42:28 PM
Quote from: "SPECTRE"The issue is not race!!!



Yes, the fruitcake that did this use race as his own private justification, but the clear reality is he is a nutjob, Class A, and how in the hell does a whacko like him get hold of powerful, lethal weaponry?



This is as much about race as Columbine was about the education system.



America's violent culture, combined with hordes of mentally ill people getting access to high powered weaponry is the problem.



Racism isn't going to go away...but you CAN make guns go away.

QuoteA sparse Facebook page shows an image of Roof in a jacket with the flags of apartheid-era South Africa and Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe).



Another Facebook photo of Roof sitting on the roof of his car shows an ornamental license plate with a Confederate flag on it.



Roommate Dalton Tyler told ABC News that Roof was "planning something like that for six months."



"He was big into segregation and other stuff," Tyler said. "He said he wanted to start a civil war. He said he was going to do something like that and then kill himself."



A woman who claimed to be the mother of Roof's former stepmother told the Journal he began to change in recent years.



"He apparently told people that he was involved in groups, racist groups," she said, adding that he stopped going to high school.



The cousin of the church's pastor—who was killed—quoted a survivor who said Roof told the church: "I have to do it. You're raping our women and taking over the country. You have to go."



//http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/06/18/everything-known-about-charleston-church-shooting-suspect-dylann-roof.html

Why shouldn't the issue be gun control and racism?
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Bricktop on June 18, 2015, 09:04:05 PM
Because guns kill people.



Racism doesn't.



Get rid of the guns first, then address the racism issue. But right now, innocents are being slaughtered by people who have no justifiable reason for possessing a firearm.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Anonymous on June 18, 2015, 09:15:00 PM
Quote from: "SPECTRE"Because guns kill people.



Racism doesn't.



Get rid of the guns first, then address the racism issue. But right now, innocents are being slaughtered by people who have no justifiable reason for possessing a firearm.

How do you feel about hunting SPECTRE?



Or what about target shooting?
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Bricktop on June 18, 2015, 09:22:09 PM
Hunting is NOT part of a civilised modern nation. People who kill animals for their own pleasure and entertainment have some serious psychological issues. Any form of killing is abhorrent.



Target shooting no problem. No-one or nothing dies. Its the same as archery, or darts, or throwing a javelin.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Anonymous on June 18, 2015, 09:24:25 PM
Quote from: "SPECTRE"Hunting is NOT part of a civilised modern nation. People who kill animals for their own pleasure and entertainment have some serious psychological issues. Any form of killing is abhorrent.



Target shooting no problem. No-one or nothing dies. Its the same as archery, or darts, or throwing a javelin.

We know people that hunt and they do not have psychological issues..



They have shared their wild game with us.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Romero on June 18, 2015, 09:31:35 PM
You know, I believe in reasonable gun control but I don't know if it matters in the US anymore. Dylann Roof was on probation but got the murder weapon from his father for his birthday. How do you gun control that?



The country is so awash in guns that practically not a day goes by without people just accidentally shooting themselves or others around them. There are so many guns, the US has to give them away to Mexican gangs and Middle Eastern terrorists.



Gun culture.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Romero on June 18, 2015, 09:39:06 PM
Quote from: "SPECTRE"Hunting is NOT part of a civilised modern nation. People who kill animals for their own pleasure and entertainment have some serious psychological issues. Any form of killing is abhorrent.



Target shooting no problem. No-one or nothing dies. Its the same as archery, or darts, or throwing a javelin.

I believe hunting is more civilized, and much more environmentally friendly, than factory farming. People still depend on hunting for sustenance, even if they can go to a store and buy some crappy ground beef.



If you eat meat, you're killing animals. Only factory farming is in most cases less humane.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Bricktop on June 18, 2015, 09:40:28 PM
Yes, I agree...the horse has well and truly bolted.



But eliminating the gun industry, from manufacture of non-military firearms to retail outlets, will at least restrict access. In modern times, nobody NEEDS a gun. The concept that owning a gun will reduce the risk of being a victim of crime has long since been negated.



Our country suffered the biggest domestic (as opposed to military or terrorist action) mass murder in history.



As a result, the government determined that guns and society do not mix, and guns were removed. We've not suffered a "mass" murder since.



Buying someone a gun for their birthday...he should be prosecuted as well as his son.



We don't even buy our children TOY guns!!!
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Bricktop on June 18, 2015, 09:43:14 PM
Quote from: "Romero"
Quote from: "SPECTRE"Hunting is NOT part of a civilised modern nation. People who kill animals for their own pleasure and entertainment have some serious psychological issues. Any form of killing is abhorrent.



Target shooting no problem. No-one or nothing dies. Its the same as archery, or darts, or throwing a javelin.

I believe hunting is more civilized, and much more environmentally friendly, than factory farming. People still depend on hunting for sustenance, even if they can go to a store and buy some crappy ground beef.



If you eat meat, you're killing animals. Only factory farming is in most cases less humane.


Hunting is as civilised as sacrificing virgins.



Why hunt, when you have a food processing chain that provides you with your sustenance? Because you LIKE it!! You are entertained by stalking, trapping and slaughtering wild animals (as opposed to animals bred domestically). You have issues if killing makes you feel hot.



We breed livestock for food.



We do not need to go into the wilderness and shoot animals for our entertainment and excitement. How can THAT be civilised?
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: RW on June 18, 2015, 09:49:06 PM
Because those animals taste gross.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Romero on June 18, 2015, 10:03:33 PM
I don't believe in hunting for sport. I'm okay with hunting for sustenance. Humans are still in the process of evolving from hunters to consumers, so there's no surprise there's going to some hunting still going on. Many peoples still depend on it and can't go to the store. For many in the "civilized" world, it's just something that mom and dad used to do back in the day.



So many factory farms are horror shows. Picking up a package of meat at the supermarket doesn't mean the animals didn't suffer. Probably more so.



One wild buck lives a good life and ends up feeding a family for a season. It could have been a family of humans or cougars. The circle of life.



One factory farmed cow lives a life of hell. Crammed cages, lying in filth... no outdoors, no mating... and it'll be lucky if it's put out of it's misery the first go around.



I'm telling ya - compared to sustenance hunting, buying meat at the store isn't any more civilized and it can be downright ugly.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Romero on June 18, 2015, 10:05:48 PM
Now I'm feeling all guilty about having that burger for lunch.



Eh, no I'm not. People are so disconnected nowadays.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Anonymous on June 18, 2015, 10:32:49 PM
Quote from: "SPECTRE"Because guns kill people.



Racism doesn't.



Get rid of the guns first, then address the racism issue. But right now, innocents are being slaughtered by people who have no justifiable reason for possessing a firearm.

Get rid of guns? Are you serious? Make em illegal and the Hell's Angels, Bloods/Crips, triads, Jamaican posses and other organized criminal gangs will suddenly have a change of heart and turn in their firearms. ac_toofunny
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Bricktop on June 18, 2015, 10:49:22 PM
See, that's exactly the wrong logic.



Yes, we know that gangs will get guns, because consumers buy them and they end up lost, stolen or simply obtained fraudulently. But, there are already laws in place that can make possession an offence.



How many mass murders have been committed by gangs? Innocent people cut down because of some psycho? Gang violence tends to be intrinsic.



But one thing is for sure; as long as guns are freely available, the flow to gangs won't stop.



Get rid of the gun industry from the domestic market, then go after the gangs.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Bricktop on June 18, 2015, 10:50:04 PM
Quote from: "Romero"I don't believe in hunting for sport. I'm okay with hunting for sustenance. Humans are still in the process of evolving from hunters to consumers, so there's no surprise there's going to some hunting still going on. Many peoples still depend on it and can't go to the store. For many in the "civilized" world, it's just something that mom and dad used to do back in the day.



So many factory farms are horror shows. Picking up a package of meat at the supermarket doesn't mean the animals didn't suffer. Probably more so.



One wild buck lives a good life and ends up feeding a family for a season. It could have been a family of humans or cougars. The circle of life.



One factory farmed cow lives a life of hell. Crammed cages, lying in filth... no outdoors, no mating... and it'll be lucky if it's put out of it's misery the first go around.



I'm telling ya - compared to sustenance hunting, buying meat at the store isn't any more civilized and it can be downright ugly.


I'm not in disagreement with you...however, two wrongs don't make a right. Factory farms are as much a blight as hunting.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Anonymous on June 18, 2015, 10:59:11 PM
Quote from: "SPECTRE"See, that's exactly the wrong logic.



Yes, we know that gangs will get guns, because consumers buy them and they end up lost, stolen or simply obtained fraudulently. But, there are already laws in place that can make possession an offence.



How many mass murders have been committed by gangs? Innocent people cut down because of some psycho? Gang violence tends to be intrinsic.



But one thing is for sure; as long as guns are freely available, the flow to gangs won't stop.



Get rid of the gun industry from the domestic market, then go after the gangs.

Nine dead and a bunch others wounded at a restaurant in Texas between the Bandidos and rival biker gangs. The same gang are responsible for the largest slaughter in Ontario.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Renee on June 18, 2015, 11:28:34 PM
Quote from: "Romero"I don't believe in hunting for sport. I'm okay with hunting for sustenance. Humans are still in the process of evolving from hunters to consumers, so there's no surprise there's going to some hunting still going on. Many peoples still depend on it and can't go to the store. For many in the "civilized" world, it's just something that mom and dad used to do back in the day.



So many factory farms are horror shows. Picking up a package of meat at the supermarket doesn't mean the animals didn't suffer. Probably more so.



One wild buck lives a good life and ends up feeding a family for a season. It could have been a family of humans or cougars. The circle of life.



One factory farmed cow lives a life of hell. Crammed cages, lying in filth... no outdoors, no mating... and it'll be lucky if it's put out of it's misery the first go around.



I'm telling ya - compared to sustenance hunting, buying meat at the store isn't any more civilized and it can be downright ugly.


Thank you Romero for putting the issue in perspective. Well said.



Apparently SPECTRE thinks he is more civilized than the rest of us because he buys his meat at the grocery store. I guess he thinks it's more civilized to get your meat in neatly wrapped clean plastic psckages. That way he doesn't have to acknowledge the pain and suffering the animal went through during its hellish, chemically enhanced, lifetime while he feeds his hypocritical face. Hopefully he won't get sick from the dangerous bacteria, feces and mashed up insect parts he is ingesting with his civilized store bought meat.



Based on the old cock suckers criteria, I wounder how civilized a society can be considered when it slaughters the one wild animal that symbolizes their country by the hundreds of thousands each year. In Australia 800,000 kangaroos are commercially harvested thru government issued HUNTING permits for dog food, leather, and human consumption each year and that doesn't even take into account the roos that are killed for sport or by road vehicles. No where in the world is the slaughter of wild land animals greater than during the Australian kangaroo harvest. Not only are nearly one million roos killed it is also estimated that 120,000 roos are gut shot by so-called hunters (probably besotted with Fosters) and left to die slow painful deaths in the bush. I'm not even going to describe what the Australian game commission tells these so-called hunters to do with the orphaned joeys that they create with there horrendous acts of slaughter.



 If we are going to ridiculously base a society's level of civilization on how it treats its fauna, then NO Australian can claim that they live in a civilized nation.



But hey, I would never begrudge a hungry Aussie some "True Blue" meat on Australia Day. I wouldn't even think of being that meddling or crass and I certainly wouldn't presume to tell them what to do within the borders of their own country. Personally I wouldn't care if the entire population of Australia turned cannibal and ate each other.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Anonymous on June 18, 2015, 11:38:59 PM
I don't think I could shoot a wild animal. A human being is a different story though.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Bricktop on June 19, 2015, 12:32:22 AM
Quote from: "Renee"
Quote from: "Romero"I don't believe in hunting for sport. I'm okay with hunting for sustenance. Humans are still in the process of evolving from hunters to consumers, so there's no surprise there's going to some hunting still going on. Many peoples still depend on it and can't go to the store. For many in the "civilized" world, it's just something that mom and dad used to do back in the day.



So many factory farms are horror shows. Picking up a package of meat at the supermarket doesn't mean the animals didn't suffer. Probably more so.



One wild buck lives a good life and ends up feeding a family for a season. It could have been a family of humans or cougars. The circle of life.



One factory farmed cow lives a life of hell. Crammed cages, lying in filth... no outdoors, no mating... and it'll be lucky if it's put out of it's misery the first go around.



I'm telling ya - compared to sustenance hunting, buying meat at the store isn't any more civilized and it can be downright ugly.


Thank you Romero for putting the issue in perspective. Well said.



Apparently SPECTRE thinks he is more civilized than the rest of us because he buys his meat at the grocery store. I guess he thinks it's more civilized to get your meat in neatly wrapped clean plastic psckages. That way he doesn't have to acknowledge the pain and suffering the animal went through during its hellish, chemically enhanced, lifetime while he feeds his hypocritical face. Hopefully he won't get sick from the dangerous bacteria, feces and mashed up insect parts he is ingesting with his civilized store bought meat.



Based on the old cock suckers criteria, I wounder how civilized a society can be considered when it slaughters the one wild animal that symbolizes their country by the hundreds of thousands each year. In Australia 800,000 kangaroos are commercially harvested for dog food, leather, and human consumption each year and that doesn't even take into account the roos that are killed for sport or by road vehicles. No where in the world is the slaughter of wild land animals greater than during the Australian kangaroo harvest. Not only are nearly one million roos killed it is also estimated that 120,000 roos are gut shot by so-called hunters (probably besotted with Fosters) and left to die slow painful deaths in the bush. I'm not even going to describe what the Australian game commission tells these so-called hunters to do with the orphaned joeys that they create with there horrendous acts of slaughter.



 If we are going to ridiculously base a society's level of civilization on how it treats its fauna, then NO Australian can claim that they live in a civilized nation.



But hey, I would never begrudge a hungry Aussie some "True Blue" meat on Australia Day. I wouldn't even think of being that meddling or crass and I certainly wouldn't presume to tell them what to do within the borders of their own country. Personally I wouldn't care if the entire population of Australia turned cannibal and ate each other.


When will you learn to READ??



Apparently, you seem to think that I am some sort of advertising slogan for Australia. Do you see anywhere where I condone conduct in Australia whilst lamenting it elsewhere?? I was discussing HUNTING, you bloated bozo...no matter where it occurs. Highlighting that it happens here does not alter my stance; it is repugnant here as anywhere.



You also missed my remark to Romero where I agreed with his summary of factory farming, and find it equally abhorrent.



So, perhaps in lieu of flushing your liver before reading what I say, and thus making yourself seem even more boorish and ignorant as usual, you will do yourself the favour of reading my posts before committing your idiocy with the "Enter" key.



Its for your own good.



By the way, we're discussing the slaughter of 9 humans in your festering shitbucket of a country. Perhaps you would care to stay on topic?



Nah...I didn't think so...
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Renee on June 19, 2015, 07:48:43 AM
When will you learn to stop prattling and bleating like a fucking idiot? Do all you Aussie cunts write volumes of ignorant pablum simply to see your own inane thoughts in print?



Why don't you go back to Van? It seems that the monkey ranch is now infested with your countrymen and they are ALL mindlessly yammering and honking like a colony of overly excited Cape Barren geese. As if that place wasn't enough of a hole it is now a cacophony of idiotic Australian noise. You can almost hear the cringe worthy, redneck, versions of British dialect being tossed around in the air as soon as the the first page loads.



Hey, I even saw that your old girlfriend has found a long lost cherry within the bowl of rotten Aussie fruit. Maybe you could cozy up with her newly rediscovered friend and start another melodramatic cyber threesome? Sowing the seeds of drama and confusion seems to be your forte, I'm sure you miss doing what you do best by now.



BTW, I know exactly what you are discussing but like most respectful individuals I have refrained from entering the discussion because emotions in the US over this incident are still raw and all the facts surrounding the murders were still forthcoming. If you remember previously in this thread, cc mentioned how Obama showed off his lack of character by trying to make political hay out of the tragedy before the bodies where even cold. You showed off your character or lack thereof as well by jumping ahead of him and doing the same. No wonder you admire that piece of shit; you are cut from the same shameless, opportunistic cloth.



Now that some of the motives and reasons for these killings have begin to come to light maybe we can have a "REAL" discussion regarding this incident and how to prevent something like this from happening again. If you want to do that, I'm in but I will NOT engage in your shrill, Aussie-centric, hysterical, reactive, gobbledygook that you try to pass off as some kind of informed opinion regarding the US society and culture.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: keeper on June 19, 2015, 08:59:54 AM
Quote from: "SPECTRE"
Quote from: "Romero"
Quote from: "SPECTRE"Hunting is NOT part of a civilised modern nation. People who kill animals for their own pleasure and entertainment have some serious psychological issues. Any form of killing is abhorrent.



Target shooting no problem. No-one or nothing dies. Its the same as archery, or darts, or throwing a javelin.

I believe hunting is more civilized, and much more environmentally friendly, than factory farming. People still depend on hunting for sustenance, even if they can go to a store and buy some crappy ground beef.



If you eat meat, you're killing animals. Only factory farming is in most cases less humane.


Hunting is as civilised as sacrificing virgins.



Why hunt, when you have a food processing chain that provides you with your sustenance? Because you LIKE it!! You are entertained by stalking, trapping and slaughtering wild animals (as opposed to animals bred domestically). You have issues if killing makes you feel hot.



We breed livestock for food.



We do not need to go into the wilderness and shoot animals for our entertainment and excitement. How can THAT be civilised?


Sorry, But yes you do.



If you don't implement hunting and have it regulated it creates over population. Like it or not you need hunters.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Anonymous on June 19, 2015, 02:05:52 PM
Quote from: "Keeper"


Sorry, But yes you do.



If you don't implement hunting and have it regulated it creates over population. Like it or not you need hunters.

I had an ex-bf who hunted. He wouldn't touch domestically raised meat sold in stores with rubber gloves on.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Frost on June 19, 2015, 08:32:35 PM
I watched that punk on TV today as the families was there, many said they forgave him.

He had nothing but a look of let me go back to my cell on his face, and some satisfaction.

Pretty sick, and sad human, likely never got any worthwhile parenting growing up.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Bricktop on June 19, 2015, 09:55:21 PM
Quote from: "Renee"When will you learn to stop prattling and bleating like a fucking idiot? Do all you Aussie cunts write volumes of ignorant pablum simply to see your own inane thoughts in print?



Why don't you go back to Van? It seems that the monkey ranch is now infested with your countrymen and they are ALL mindlessly yammering and honking like a colony of overly excited Cape Barren geese. As if that place wasn't enough of a hole it is now a cacophony of idiotic Australian noise. You can almost hear the cringe worthy, redneck, versions of British dialect being tossed around in the air as soon as the the first page loads.



Hey, I even saw that your old girlfriend has found a long lost cherry within the bowl of rotten Aussie fruit. Maybe you could cozy up with her newly rediscovered friend and start another melodramatic cyber threesome? Sowing the seeds of drama and confusion seems to be your forte, I'm sure you miss doing what you do best by now.



BTW, I know exactly what you are discussing but like most respectful individuals I have refrained from entering the discussion because emotions in the US over this incident are still raw and all the facts surrounding the murders were still forthcoming. If you remember previously in this thread, cc mentioned how Obama showed off his lack of character by trying to make political hay out of the tragedy before the bodies where even cold. You showed off your character or lack thereof as well by jumping ahead of him and doing the same. No wonder you admire that piece of shit; you are cut from the same shameless, opportunistic cloth.



Now that some of the motives and reasons for these killings have begin to come to light maybe we can have a "REAL" discussion regarding this incident and how to prevent something like this from happening again. If you want to do that, I'm in but I will NOT engage in your shrill, Aussie-centric, hysterical, reactive, gobbledygook that you try to pass off as some kind of informed opinion regarding the US society and culture.


You could have said "I have nothing to offer in defence of this vile and heinous act that is a consequence of a fucked up gun culture" in far less words.



But no...as always, when you're cornered, we are subjected to another daft attempt at deflection by attacking my nation, as if that somehow gets under my skin, or actually addresses the issue. You're fat. I'm Australian. And 9 people were slaughtered by a fucking lunatic who's dad gave him a lethal weapon for his birthday, because that's what you do in the global abscess you call home.



Obama, in my view, was far too fucking lenient. What he should have said is "If you truly believe in your country, and its stated morals and values, you will ALL submit your guns for destruction at the nearest police station, just like they did in Australia, because its clear that our society cannot accommodate the ownership of lethal weapons by civilians." That's what we did in our fly-blown, dessicated, backwards nation.



Your government not only stands by and watches the carnage impotently, they positively encourage it. The Constitution, dontcha know...gotta live by a bunch of silly rules some old Brits came up with before electricity was invented.



Let's add to the comedy...Government buildings lowered their US flags to half mast in memoriam of those executed. All accept the rebel flag. Can't lower THAT to half mast because its ILLEGAL to do so!!! Made me laugh hysterically.



Followed up by some nutjob in the NRA declaring that it was the victim's fault!!! Tears down the cheeks for that pearl of hilarity.



So, go right ahead and continue besmirching my country to deflect away from the real issue; your country's gun culture is out of control, and as a result your proclamations of revering human rights, demanding justice for all, and living in a harmonious society look pretty fucking flimsy. Just like every other declaration you pompously beat off to in the global arena.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: RW on June 19, 2015, 10:14:31 PM
Quote from: "Keeper"
Quote from: "SPECTRE"
Quote from: "Romero"
Quote from: "SPECTRE"Hunting is NOT part of a civilised modern nation. People who kill animals for their own pleasure and entertainment have some serious psychological issues. Any form of killing is abhorrent.



Target shooting no problem. No-one or nothing dies. Its the same as archery, or darts, or throwing a javelin.

I believe hunting is more civilized, and much more environmentally friendly, than factory farming. People still depend on hunting for sustenance, even if they can go to a store and buy some crappy ground beef.



If you eat meat, you're killing animals. Only factory farming is in most cases less humane.


Hunting is as civilised as sacrificing virgins.



Why hunt, when you have a food processing chain that provides you with your sustenance? Because you LIKE it!! You are entertained by stalking, trapping and slaughtering wild animals (as opposed to animals bred domestically). You have issues if killing makes you feel hot.



We breed livestock for food.



We do not need to go into the wilderness and shoot animals for our entertainment and excitement. How can THAT be civilised?


Sorry, But yes you do.



If you don't implement hunting and have it regulated it creates over population. Like it or not you need hunters.

It seems to escape some that we are part of the food chain.  Removing us causing problems.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Bricktop on June 19, 2015, 10:17:29 PM
Problems for who? Seems to me the animals did OK by themselves before we came along.



We cannot keep killing our way out of problems we have caused. That is not the mark of a civilised nation. Yours, mine or anyone else.



Our forbears chose to populate the countries we inhabit, for all is vices and virtues. We need to stop killing creatures because we cannot control ourselves.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: RW on June 19, 2015, 10:24:15 PM
Quote from: "SPECTRE"Problems for who? Seems to me the animals did OK by themselves before we came along.



We cannot keep killing our way out of problems we have caused. That is not the mark of a civilised nation. Yours, mine or anyone else.



Our forbears chose to populate the countries we inhabit, for all is vices and virtues. We need to stop killing creatures because we cannot control ourselves.

How do we know how animals were doing before we were around?  That's a tree falls in the forest response if I ever heard one.



Can't control ourselves?  They are a source of protein which we use to sustain ourselves and have been since the dawn of man.  



We are part of the food chain whether you like it or not.  What is unnatural is raising animals by the boat loads to glutton ourselves on.  We would be a hell of a lot healthier if we had to hunt for our own food.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Romero on June 19, 2015, 10:37:54 PM
Quote from: "SPECTRE"Problems for who? Seems to me the animals did OK by themselves before we came along.



We cannot keep killing our way out of problems we have caused. That is not the mark of a civilised nation. Yours, mine or anyone else.



Our forbears chose to populate the countries we inhabit, for all is vices and virtues. We need to stop killing creatures because we cannot control ourselves.

Are you vegetarian? An animal has to be killed for you to eat it. Having someone else kill it for you doesn't mean you're not responsible for its death. How many dead animals have you eaten in your lifetime? Thousands?



Hunting is barely a scratch compared to the number of animals killed for commercial consumption. There are probably more dead animals in your local supermarket right now than an entire country's number of hunted animals in a whole year.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: RW on June 19, 2015, 10:43:57 PM
The real problem is human animals killing other human animals.  That's just sick.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Bricktop on June 19, 2015, 11:31:03 PM
Quote from: "Romero"
Quote from: "SPECTRE"Problems for who? Seems to me the animals did OK by themselves before we came along.



We cannot keep killing our way out of problems we have caused. That is not the mark of a civilised nation. Yours, mine or anyone else.



Our forbears chose to populate the countries we inhabit, for all is vices and virtues. We need to stop killing creatures because we cannot control ourselves.

Are you vegetarian? An animal has to be killed for you to eat it. Having someone else kill it for you doesn't mean you're not responsible for its death. How many dead animals have you eaten in your lifetime? Thousands?



Hunting is barely a scratch compared to the number of animals killed for commercial consumption. There are probably more dead animals in your local supermarket right now than an entire country's number of hunted animals in a whole year.


Are you folks cross threading, or am I missing something here?



We are talking about gun control...specifically in the US.



I hold the position that "hunting" is NOT a valid reason for the possession of a lethal firearm in a society where there are people who would use these firearms to kill or injure others...or indeed themselves.



The fact that I am also opposed to hunting is ancillary. I am opposed to gun ownership without good and proper reason, and HUNTING is not a good and proper reason.



Should you care to address the topic, I'm happy to maintain the debate. If you go on talking about the food chain, then we are at cross purposes.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: cc on June 19, 2015, 11:53:45 PM
I stopped banging my head on brick walls after the first try long time ago. So, I'll pass on that.

By that I mean when I know someone's view is carved in stone and  very passionate on certain issues, I try to not discuss those issues on which I may disagree with that person. There is no purpose in doing otherwise.



I do have gun questions that you can answer.



Do coppers carry guns in Oz?



Do many criminals carry guns in Oz?
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: easter bunny on June 20, 2015, 02:12:29 AM
The whole of America used to be a gun free zone - until the Americans showed up.   ac_unsure
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Anonymous on June 20, 2015, 02:13:34 AM
All I know is that I have had venison. Done in a slow cooker, it is tender and delish.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Bricktop on June 20, 2015, 08:04:58 AM
Quote from: "cc la femme"
Do coppers carry guns in Oz?



Do many criminals carry guns in Oz?


Yes.



No.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: J0E on June 20, 2015, 11:32:46 AM
Quote from: "Romero"You know, I believe in reasonable gun control but I don't know if it matters in the US anymore. Dylann Roof was on probation but got the murder weapon from his father for his birthday. How do you gun control that?



Gun culture.

Some suggestions for Americans & the USA to reduce gun violence & homicides due to guns:



1. All guns need to be registered and with tracking devices built in or attached to them.

2. Just like car owners, a gun owner would need a license to operate a gun.

3. The registrant needs to go through a rigorous training and apprenticeship in order to have a license to operate one.

4. Any prospective applicant with a criminal record or mental health issues will denied a license & therefore is not legally entitled to carry a gun or have one in their possession.

5.Gun owners must undergo psychological testing annually to demonstrate their mental fitness.

6. Anyone illegally possessing a gun will pay stiff fines, jail time or both along with a criminal record, barring them from legal ownership of a firearm in the future.

7. Anyone selling or giving a firearm to anyone not entitled to, will face prison sentences similar to a drug dealer trafficking hard drugs such as heroin.



In other words, take the guns out of the hands of criminals and lunatics, allow this privilege only to law abiding citizens, let them know, that the right to own firearms carries with it, an equal and tremendous reponsibikity.



Anyways, I've suggested to folks like Kiebers that America ought to adopt such measures like the above, similar to thosein Switzerland. Switzerland has a gun culture, a high rate of gun ownership, yet just a fraction of the gun related homicides that the United States does.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: cc on June 20, 2015, 11:54:12 AM
QuoteIn other words, take the guns out of the hands of criminals and lunatics
 Criminals don't register guns. That's a no brainer. They just buy them on black market or steal registered guns or from sales places.



A good plan if you want only criminals armed ...... if that is not the plan. then it's a fail



Tracking devices .... so 1000s of people monitor every location 24/7 ? Is that the plan?



Why does no one mention rifling test be done as part of registration and record kept? That fingerprints any bullet ever shot from that gun. Yes, it's after the fact but in reality so is tracking devices and is definitive while tracking would not be definitive in a court of law



You will get the good guys unlikely to do harm while leaving no deterrence for criminals who play outside of all rules.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: J0E on June 20, 2015, 12:05:12 PM
Quote from: "cc la femme"
QuoteIn other words, take the guns out of the hands of criminals and lunatics
 Criminals don't register guns. They just buy them on black market or steal them.


True. But its akin to me driving around a semitrailer with a Class 5 drivers license even though the law explicitly states that I need Class 1 and airbrakes to operate such a vehicle. Of course, I could do it if someone handed me the keys to the vehicle, but I get caught by a law enforcement official, it could mean a loss of license and heavy fine, plus criminal prosecution by the Crown. Of course, the Crown does this not to deny my freedom to drive, but to protect the public against reckless and unqualified drivers and and for safety reasons.



If the state regulates motorvehicles, why not guns too?
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: cc on June 20, 2015, 12:09:18 PM
Bad example. It's not akin to. Criminals don't need semis to rob or kill, they need guns



I'm in favor of registration just like for vehicles but at the same time know it will not criminals or anyone who plans to use a gun for murder. Even a registrant can buy an illegal gun if he decides to do a crime or a murder



So, how about that rifling concept?



As to mentally unstable, same applies. It's hard to get legal proof of instability until someone acts out big time ... = AFTER the damage is done - Sides, a proven nutcase who plans to kill can buy an illegal gun ... Any regulation will be circumvented for anyone wanting one for any crime



But of course, joe goodguy would be regulated  ,,, that's all we achieve
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: J0E on June 20, 2015, 12:41:44 PM
One thing you haven't mentioned though, cc. Currently illegal possession of firearms does not carry heavy fines or criminal proesecution that possession of illegal drugs does. Many states in America have little or no laws against them, and if they do, its some paltry fine and a slap on the wrist. However if the laws were changed,just like they were in Switzerland, the rates might drop. I support hard time and heavy fines for illegal gun possession.



Yet I support legal gun possession and a gun culture that works like Switzerland.



I do not support the gun culture which currently exists in the United States, though.


Quote from: "cc la femme"Bad example. It's not akin to. Criminals don't need semis to rob or kill, they need guns



I'm in favor of registration just like for vehicles but at the same time know it will not criminals or anyone who plans to use a gun for murder. Even a registrant can buy an illegal gun if he decides to do a crime or a murder



So, how about that rifling concept?



As to mentally unstable, same applies. It's hard to get legal proof of instability until someone acts out big time ... = AFTER the damage is done - Sides, a proven nutcase who plans to kill can buy an illegal gun ... Any regulation will be circumvented for anyone wanting one for any crime



But of course, joe goodguy would be regulated  ,,, that's all we achieve
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: cc on June 20, 2015, 12:52:08 PM
Possession of illegal gun should be heavily fined.



Possession of illegal gun for criminal purposes should be serious jail time. That is the only way one could make even small progress against guns in criminal hands .... a good but partial solution



However, thanks to progs getting search and frisk a thing of the past, even serious jail time if caught would only help a bit ..... "caught" being the key word here.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: cc on June 20, 2015, 04:47:43 PM
At least three killed, 30 injured  in Austria after man drives into crowd before 'stabbing passers-by' (//http)



Austrian Registered Car Thinks its a US Gun??



(//%3C/s%3E%3CURL%20url=%22http://www.independent.co.uk/incoming/article10333901.ece/alternates/w620/v2-Graz-deaths2.jpg%22%3E%3CLINK_TEXT%20text=%22http://www.independent.co.uk/incoming/a%20...%20eaths2.jpg%22%3Ehttp://www.independent.co.uk/incoming/article10333901.ece/alternates/w620/v2-Graz-deaths2.jpg%3C/LINK_TEXT%3E%3C/URL%3E%3Ce%3E)



Sorry to sound flippant, but I'm really sick of the anti-gun anti-US hate I see.



The driver, identified by police as a 26-year-old Austrian man of Bosnian heritage, has been arrested. He works as a professional driver and is married with two children.



A seven-year-old boy is reportedly among the three people killed in Austria by a man who ploughed his car into crowds in the country's second-largest city and then reportedly started stabbing people.

 

A witness told the Wiener Zeitung newspaper that dead bodies were left lying face down in the road after the vehicle sped through streets near the the historical Herrengasse in Graz.



The killing only stopped when the driver parked his battered car outside a police station.



The driver, identified by police as a 26-year-old Austrian man of Bosnian heritage, has been arrested. He works as a professional driver and is married with two children.



The old AS ALWAYS excuse, sigh  - "Police are not currently investigating terrorism as a motive and the suspect is believed to be suffering from mental illness."
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: kiebers on June 20, 2015, 04:58:25 PM
Quote from: "cc la femme"I stopped banging my head on brick walls after the first try long time ago. So, I'll pass on that.

By that I mean when I know someone's view is carved in stone and  very passionate on certain issues, I try to not discuss those issues on which I may disagree with that person. There is no purpose in doing otherwise.

Indeed.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: kiebers on June 20, 2015, 05:08:36 PM
QuoteCurrently illegal possession of firearms does not carry heavy fines or criminal proesecution that possession of illegal drugs does.

You said 2 things there. So if you would please.

First define illegal possession of a firearm.



Since you imply that there are illegal firearms by your comparison to illegal drugs, then define illegal firearm.



Nothing long and drawn out or deflecting. You are talking about the US so I want to know what definitions you are using.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Bricktop on June 20, 2015, 08:03:05 PM
Ol' man kiebers up to his usual obfuscation.



Instead of nit-picking details, how about you address the main issue. Are you for or against gun control?



Are you satisfied with the status quo? If not, what would YOU do to change things.



Make a stand, for a change, instead of being pointlessly pedantic.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: @realAzhyaAryola on June 20, 2015, 08:10:03 PM
You know what, I am tired of the two of you bickering also. You two are like husband and wife.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Frost on June 20, 2015, 08:18:58 PM
I pick up a new gun Monday if it arrives at the shop :) does that tell if I'm for the idiot issue of Liberal gun control ?

The issue is parenting, punishment, and a sick judicial system.

I'm kind of anti death penalty, but in cases like this the kid needs parted out to help save some lives.

Mental case of not there isn't any room in society for such sick people.

make a statement with him, and kick the parents butts for not raising him.



Gun control helps criminals, and controlling governments.

Let the hypocrites calling for it to give up their rights, and guns Like Obama, and his criminal clown posse.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: kiebers on June 20, 2015, 08:27:10 PM
Quote from: "SPECTRE"Ol' man kiebers up to his usual obfuscation.



Instead of nit-picking details, how about you address the main issue. Are you for or against gun control?



Are you satisfied with the status quo? If not, what would YOU do to change things.



Make a stand, for a change, instead of being pointlessly pedantic.

Quote from: "kiebers"
Quote from: "cc la femme"I stopped banging my head on brick walls after the first try long time ago. So, I'll pass on that.

By that I mean when I know someone's view is carved in stone and  very passionate on certain issues, I try to not discuss those issues on which I may disagree with that person. There is no purpose in doing otherwise.

Indeed.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: @realAzhyaAryola on June 20, 2015, 08:41:12 PM
kiebers-Leoparsocks love team



 ac_lmfao
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Bricktop on June 20, 2015, 08:51:05 PM
Quote from: "Frost"
Gun control helps criminals, and controlling governments.

Let the hypocrites calling for it to give up their rights, and guns Like Obama, and his criminal clown posse.


By THAT logic, Australia, England, Japan, most of Europe, the Pacific, Singapore and many other nations should be awash with criminals, and Governments will be ruled by dictators.



Odd. That doesn't seem to be the case.



You have NO right to carry a lethal weapon, because you have NO reason.



This idiotic claim that "criminals have guns, so why shouldn't we" is as absurd as it is illogical. If gun possession deterred crime, the US should be just about crime free. But its not.



US citizens have been brainwashed by fear and racial tension into thinking that guns are good. Guns solve issues. Guns protect you. Guns make your country strong.



So far, I've not seen ANY argument from yourself, kiebers, cc and other proponents of the status quo about the 30,000 plus deaths per year from gunfire, and several thousand more wounded.



If I read you correctly, THIS number is irrelevant. Its more important to have the perverted RIGHT to own a firearm.



How can the world take the US seriously, when it allows the slaughter of its owns citizens to continue on a massive scale.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Bricktop on June 20, 2015, 08:54:43 PM
Quote from: "cc la femme"At least three killed, 30 injured  in Austria after man drives into crowd before 'stabbing passers-by' (//http)



Austrian Registered Car Thinks its a US Gun??



(//%3C/s%3E%3CURL%20url=%22http://www.independent.co.uk/incoming/article10333901.ece/alternates/w620/v2-Graz-deaths2.jpg%22%3E%3CLINK_TEXT%20text=%22http://www.independent.co.uk/incoming/a%20...%20eaths2.jpg%22%3Ehttp://www.independent.co.uk/incoming/article10333901.ece/alternates/w620/v2-Graz-deaths2.jpg%3C/LINK_TEXT%3E%3C/URL%3E%3Ce%3E)



Sorry to sound flippant, but I'm really sick of the anti-gun anti-US hate I see.



The driver, identified by police as a 26-year-old Austrian man of Bosnian heritage, has been arrested. He works as a professional driver and is married with two children.



A seven-year-old boy is reportedly among the three people killed in Austria by a man who ploughed his car into crowds in the country's second-largest city and then reportedly started stabbing people.

 

A witness told the Wiener Zeitung newspaper that dead bodies were left lying face down in the road after the vehicle sped through streets near the the historical Herrengasse in Graz.



The killing only stopped when the driver parked his battered car outside a police station.



The driver, identified by police as a 26-year-old Austrian man of Bosnian heritage, has been arrested. He works as a professional driver and is married with two children.



The old AS ALWAYS excuse, sigh  - "Police are not currently investigating terrorism as a motive and the suspect is believed to be suffering from mental illness."


That's an irrational and deflecting issue. By your logic, we also ban civilian aircraft. And rope. And chainsaws. And carving knives.



Here's the difference between cars, aircraft and guns.



We NEED and RELY on cars and planes to move around. We do not NEED guns.



Its actually quite hard to commit mass murder with a car. They rarely last more than one good hit. Its also hard to stay on target.



You, dear lady, near an intravenous and very large does of vegemite. They've gotten to you.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: kiebers on June 20, 2015, 09:00:07 PM
Quote from: "Azhya Aryola"kiebers-Leoparsocks love team



 ac_lmfao

Not even funny.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Frost on June 20, 2015, 09:09:45 PM
Quote from: "SPECTRE"
Quote from: "Frost"
Gun control helps criminals, and controlling governments.

Let the hypocrites calling for it to give up their rights, and guns Like Obama, and his criminal clown posse.


By THAT logic, Australia, England, Japan, most of Europe, the Pacific, Singapore and many other nations should be awash with criminals, and Governments will be ruled by dictators.



Odd. That doesn't seem to be the case.



You have NO right to carry a lethal weapon, because you have NO reason.



This idiotic claim that "criminals have guns, so why shouldn't we" is as absurd as it is illogical. If gun possession deterred crime, the US should be just about crime free. But its not.



US citizens have been brainwashed by fear and racial tension into thinking that guns are good. Guns solve issues. Guns protect you. Guns make your country strong.



So far, I've not seen ANY argument from yourself, kiebers, cc and other proponents of the status quo about the 30,000 plus deaths per year from gunfire, and several thousand more wounded.



If I read you correctly, THIS number is irrelevant. Its more important to have the perverted RIGHT to own a firearm.



How can the world take the US seriously, when it allows the slaughter of its owns citizens to continue on a massive scale.

Funny how violent crime skyrocketed in England when guns where gave up, Japan will shot you in the head unlike here where they cuddle you in prison. Japan also has a good family structure where we do not anymore.

Lets see the hypocrisy stop before wanting my guns. Most of the prisons are full of anti gun supporting people, most inner city crime is from liberal supporting anti gun nuts that have guns, and commit a major portion of the gun crimes.

Black on black gun crimes, talking hypocracy when they vote for people like Obama, and just love the sick hiphop rap thugs.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: kiebers on June 20, 2015, 09:10:45 PM
Quote from: "Azhya Aryola"You know what, I am tired of the two of you bickering also. You two are like husband and wife.

With the exception of quoting CC's post I have not said a word to him in this thread. My post was directed at J0E/Frank. Spec and I have been there done this on this subject. He believes one thing and I believe another. No sense in rehashing it.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Bricktop on June 20, 2015, 09:12:19 PM
You need to cite references on your claims. They are fallacious.



You sound like you're scared not to own a gun. That, truthfully, is the real reason Americans cling to their killing machines. Despite all its claims of heroics, bravado and fortitude, Americans' courage only applies when they have a gun in their hands.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Bricktop on June 20, 2015, 09:13:08 PM
Quote from: "kiebers"
Quote from: "Azhya Aryola"You know what, I am tired of the two of you bickering also. You two are like husband and wife.

With the exception of quoting CC's post I have not said a word to him in this thread. My post was directed at J0E/Frank. Spec and I have been there done this on this subject. He believes one thing and I believe another. No sense in rehashing it.


Feel free to say your piece!!!



This is a debate, not a flame forum!!
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Frost on June 20, 2015, 09:17:38 PM
"That, truthfully, is the real reason Americans cling to their killing machines"

Talking fictitious, back that one up ?



So, are you saying most blacks are not Democrat supporters, and inner city rats are not also ?

So what some don't vote, they still are the ones supporting gun grabbing tripe.



As for me owning a gun I have used it for protection, and if I wanted to kill someone I have a lot of other deadly things like an suv.

I'm sure with a big truck I can kill more than that little punk did.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Frost on June 20, 2015, 09:21:59 PM
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/health/story/health/story/2011/05/CDC-US-murder-toll-from-guns-highest-in-big-cities/47159990/1



CDC: U.S. murder toll from guns highest in big cities
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Frost on June 20, 2015, 09:42:33 PM
Don't get me wrong Specter, I do think something needs done, and part of it is a dealing with illegal guns, and better background checks.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Bricktop on June 20, 2015, 09:47:01 PM
Quote from: "Frost""That, truthfully, is the real reason Americans cling to their killing machines"

Talking fictitious, back that one up ?


Bowling For Columbine did that rather well.



I'll use Michael Moore's position.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Frost on June 20, 2015, 09:50:11 PM
Sorry but Michael Moore likes guns also, he needs them for protection.

Is he better than anyone else, people like him Rosie O'donald, and a big list of other hypocrites ?
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Frost on June 20, 2015, 09:54:06 PM
Sorry Specter gotta go, much appreciated for the opinions, I hold no animosity from good arguments.  :)
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Bricktop on June 20, 2015, 10:01:52 PM
Quote from: "Frost"part of it is a dealing with illegal guns


I think I side with kiebers, in that how do you designate a gun legal, or illegal.



However, I doubt he'd agree with my proposal that there is no such thing as an illegal gun.



Is there an illegal gun manufacturer?



Nope...all guns start out being "legal". How, then, do criminals obtain them?
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Bricktop on June 20, 2015, 10:02:17 PM
Quote from: "Frost"Sorry Specter gotta go, much appreciated for the opinions, I hold no animosity from good arguments.  :)


All good.



Me neither...as long as I win!! ac_biggrin
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Romero on June 22, 2015, 04:32:12 PM
200 mass killings in the US since just 2009.



(//%3C/s%3E%3CURL%20url=%22https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CH3MkFeWEAAJvqi.png:large%22%3Ehttps://pbs.twimg.com/media/CH3MkFeWEAAJvqi.png:large%3C/URL%3E%3Ce%3E)



//http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/mass-killings/index.html#title
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Bricktop on June 22, 2015, 07:23:37 PM
200!!!



Jesus wept...and they STILL argue that guns are good...



Or did. I note the yanks have gone quiet lately.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Bricktop on June 22, 2015, 07:38:50 PM
At least Obama gets it!!!



http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-stories/2015/06/23/obama-praises-aust-gun-laws.html?cid=BP_RSS_sn-topstories_5_obama-praises-aust-gun-laws_230615



He praises AUSTRALIAN gun laws.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Frost on June 22, 2015, 09:12:11 PM
Picked me up a TRR8 revolver today :) might be good if some of those Democrat hypocrites with guns come around.

There is graphs for everything, have another  :smiley_thumbs_up_yellow_ani:



(//%3C/s%3E%3CURL%20url=%22http://oi59.tinypic.com/2yzecxv.jpg%22%3Ehttp://oi59.tinypic.com/2yzecxv.jpg%3C/URL%3E%3Ce%3E)
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Frost on June 22, 2015, 09:18:25 PM
Good news, but there is an upturn maybe because of Obama making Race a mess in this country, and letting criminals free on mass.

The Idiot even wants hard core Felons with all their rights back.



(//%3C/s%3E%3CURL%20url=%22http://oi61.tinypic.com/29mpok0.jpg%22%3Ehttp://oi61.tinypic.com/29mpok0.jpg%3C/URL%3E%3Ce%3E)
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Bricktop on June 22, 2015, 09:24:54 PM
But, you see...as usual, there is no data that links the conclusion to the hypothesis.



You can well and truly argue that the reduction in crime has dropped in direct relation to global warming...as it positively correlates to that.



Numbers don't amount to information and knowledge unless you can link the two sets with hard data.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Frost on June 22, 2015, 09:30:44 PM
So where is the data of the praised graph on the last one I didn't post ?

Where they crimes, or suicides, accidents, a whole bunch of mixed bag stuff tossed together ?



My comment was not a conclusion, it's my opinion.

Also since Obama has got in office him, and his clowns have been starting stuff, and letting stuff go which should have been prosecuted.  

Calling a police racist when not investigated, fueling race hate with his remarks, not arresting black panthers for breaking the law at voting sites.

That data is there. Feel free to be blind, Kool-aid flows freely from many sources.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Bricktop on June 22, 2015, 09:35:59 PM
Frosty...



HERE is the only data you need.



30,000 US citizens KILLED by firearms in ONE year.



All the other stuff is meaningless and irrelevant.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Frost on June 22, 2015, 09:39:19 PM
Nope, data of who was killed, why they where killed, and where.

Cops shooting nuts with guns, and knives should not be on there, suicides should not either.

Hunting accidents, that's iffy for me, a holes shot invading homes, job hazard.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Bricktop on June 22, 2015, 10:09:00 PM
Allow me to help here...



"Gunshot wounds impact severely on the criminal justice as well as health care systems. Some basic statistics are important in understanding the magnitude and severity of the social and economic burden to the U.S. The subject remains contentious. (Glantz and Annas, 2009)



In the U.S. for 2010, there were 31,513 deaths from firearms, distributed as follows by mode of death: Suicide 19,308; Homicide 11,015; Accident 600. This makes firearms injuries one of the top ten causes of death in the U.S. The number of firearms-related injuries in the U.S., both fatal and non-fatal, increased through 1993, declined to 1999, and has remained relatively constant since. However, firearms injuries remain a leading cause of death in the U.S., particularly among youth (CDC, 2001) (Sherry et al, 2012).



The rates of firearms deaths in the U.S. vary significantly by race and sex. The U.S. national average was 10.2 deaths per 100,000 population in 2009. The highest rate was 28.4/100,000 for African-American males, more than quadruple the rate of 6.3/100,000 for white males. (CDC, 2009)



The number of non-fatal injuries is considerable--over 200,000 per year in the U.S. Many of these injuries require hospitalization and trauma care. A 1994 study revealed the cost per injury requiring admission to a trauma center was over $14,000. The cumulative lifetime cost in 1985 for gunshot wounds was estimated to be $911 million, with $13.4 billion in lost productivity. (Mock et al, 1994) The cost of the improper use of firearms in Canada was estimated at $6.6 billion per year. (Chapdelaine and Maurice, 1996)"
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Frost on June 22, 2015, 10:18:21 PM
So whats Canada got to do with it ? they have stricter gun laws, and we have 10 times more people.

it sounds like the stricter laws is not worth it unless you think Canada has more crazy nuts.



Say 11,015 deaths that really count here, the majority are from blacks that is only 13.2 percent of the population.

Lets see from my thoughts it's more liberals that's the issue. Lets ban Liberals, hows that sound ?

Really, bad parenting, hypocritical owning guns, and voting in anti gun nuts, keeping people poor for many decades, bad schooling practices.

yeah ban them, very sick to have them around, and how they want to control Ill keep my guns for my own safety.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Frost on June 22, 2015, 10:28:06 PM
If I'm not wrong these are all Democrat slaughterhouses full of those hypocrites with guns .  

Ban Libtards soon for your children's sake  ac_crying

(//%3C/s%3E%3CURL%20url=%22http://oi61.tinypic.com/8yua0g.jpg%22%3Ehttp://oi61.tinypic.com/8yua0g.jpg%3C/URL%3E%3Ce%3E)
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Bricktop on June 22, 2015, 10:38:46 PM
Your logic fails you.



And I don't know what the stats are in Canada...those are US stats...



30,000 dead from gunshot. How can you rationally argue for a system that enables slaughter on that scale.



Thats 3 people EVERY hour...24/7.



That is not the characteristic of a civilised country. Even less, from a country that purports to be so high and mighty.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Bricktop on June 22, 2015, 10:40:50 PM
BTW, Canada could use some tidying up...



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate



Nearly three times more killed by gunfire than Australia, and 5 times more homicides by gunfire than Canada.



Don't go beating that chest too hard.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Frost on June 22, 2015, 10:48:56 PM
Your post mentions Canada unless you didn't read it before cut, and pasting.



You also ignoring cause, and reason for all those killings.

It's not guns, it's the people, parenting, the beliefs now, and politicians failing the public.

Like I posted there, worst places to live are Democrat crap holes, they have failed people in many ways. .

I'm not letting Republicans off either, they are about as sick anymore, and acting the same following suit for a vote.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Frost on June 22, 2015, 10:51:22 PM
Quote from: "SPECTRE"BTW, Canada could use some tidying up...



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate



Nearly three times more killed by gunfire than Australia, and 5 times more homicides by gunfire than Canada.



Don't go beating that chest too hard.


 :tongue(2): Don't worry about me, it's not on my chest beating list.

I see both sides have merit believe it or not, but taking guns when other things cause the issue, and criminals wont give up guns you know.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Bricktop on June 22, 2015, 11:01:00 PM
Quote from: "Frost"Your post mentions Canada unless you didn't read it before cut, and pasting.



You also ignoring cause, and reason for all those killings.

It's not guns, it's the people, parenting, the beliefs now, and politicians failing the public.

Like I posted there, worst places to live are Democrat crap holes, they have failed people in many ways. .

I'm not letting Republicans off either, they are about as sick anymore, and acting the same following suit for a vote.


OK. So, I'm a jackass named Roof. I live in Southern USA, and I hate blacks.



I go to their church. Only I don't possess a firearm. I want to kill the people in the church.



What's my next best option?



Knife? Well, I may get one or two...if I'm lucky. The rest will run, or attack me with chairs. I sure won't get 9.



No gun, no mass murder. Its a pretty simple equation. As far as I am aware, Roof was not a criminal until he murdered those people. Neither were the kids that slaughtered their peers at Columbine High. Nor was the whackjob that opened fire at a Batman movie. See, criminals tend to kill other criminals, moreso than innocent civilians. If you're not a criminal, you are safer without a gun than with.



And I'm still waiting for someone to tell me where these criminals get THEIR guns from?
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Bricktop on June 22, 2015, 11:07:57 PM
(//%3C/s%3E%3CURL%20url=%22http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/heraldtimesonline.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/b/fc/bfce6344-aa81-536c-b2d7-189084420ad6/51afabe05b59d.image.jpg%22%3E%3CLINK_TEXT%20text=%22http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews%20...%20.image.jpg%22%3Ehttp://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/heraldtimesonline.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/b/fc/bfce6344-aa81-536c-b2d7-189084420ad6/51afabe05b59d.image.jpg%3C/LINK_TEXT%3E%3C/URL%3E%3Ce%3E)
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Frost on June 22, 2015, 11:10:03 PM
You grab some gas, and block the doors, you grab a truck, and run over them, or like in many countries grab a machete hacking a lot of people up.



They get them from Obama, and Holder, and rack up one dead American that we know of.

they buy them from each other, they break in, and take grandpas, they buy them from Hypocrite Walmart which is anti gun.



Now someone tell me why Democrats kill the most people, and filling the prisons up, and why people like Obama wants them all free because they are mostly black ? Why let felons have rights to guns, and voting rights again.

Why is Liberal cities the top worst in the country for crime ?
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: J0E on June 22, 2015, 11:51:49 PM
America hasn't learned that with Great Power comes Great Responsibility.



As one of its folk heroes stated, after he learned the hard way:



(//%3C/s%3E%3CURL%20url=%22http://cdn.business2community.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Spider-Man252C2520With2520great2520power2520panel-8x6.jpg%22%3E%3CLINK_TEXT%20text=%22http://cdn.business2community.com/wp-co%20...%20el-8x6.jpg%22%3Ehttp://cdn.business2community.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Spider-Man252C2520With2520great2520power2520panel-8x6.jpg%3C/LINK_TEXT%3E%3C/URL%3E%3Ce%3E)



Guns have tremendous, yet terrifying power.

That's why its imperative that only those capable of  undertaking the awesome responsibility of gun ownership should be allowed to have one.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Frost on June 23, 2015, 12:00:20 AM
Hi Frank :)

Who is that, Anti gun Barbra boxer with her concealed carry, James Brady of the Brady bill who bought his son a gun, Rosie O'Donald, Michel Moor, and his punk men, Sylvester Stallone the Hollywood hypocrite, the soldier that went Allah Akbar, the cop who killed an innocent man ?



A lot of people telling me my guns are bad but like theirs .

I have had them since I was a kid, nobody shot with them yet.

I did pull them of a few people, people breaking in that left quickly.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Bricktop on June 23, 2015, 12:37:24 AM
Quote from: "Frost"
I have had them since I was a kid, nobody shot with them yet.


Then why have them?
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: RW on June 23, 2015, 02:00:20 AM
Quote from: "Frost"You grab some gas, and block the doors, you grab a truck, and run over them, or like in many countries grab a machete hacking a lot of people up.



They get them from Obama, and Holder, and rack up one dead American that we know of.

they buy them from each other, they break in, and take grandpas, they buy them from Hypocrite Walmart which is anti gun.



Now someone tell me why Democrats kill the most people, and filling the prisons up, and why people like Obama wants them all free because they are mostly black ? Why let felons have rights to guns, and voting rights again.

Why is Liberal cities the top worst in the country for crime ?

Poverty.  I expect they vote liberal because they give the best hope to changing the situation.  The Relublican party is not true party of poor black America Blue.  I suspect you know that.



If you want to talk about prisons, who started the "war on drugs"?  (It wasn't a democrat)
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: J0E on June 23, 2015, 02:07:19 AM
Quote from: "kiebers"
Quote from: "Azhya Aryola"You know what, I am tired of the two of you bickering also. You two are like husband and wife.

With the exception of quoting CC's post I have not said a word to him in this thread. My post was directed at J0E/Frank. Spec and I have been there done this on this subject. He believes one thing and I believe another. No sense in rehashing it.


Kiebers, no one is suggesting that you and frost aren't responsible gun owners.

I'm sure you be a model gun owner if you lived in Canada too.



The question is, how does the state keep guns out of the hands of nutcases like Dylann Roof, the Columbine killers, the Connetict shooter, the Virginia Tech murderer, the Batman shooter, etc.?



One thing the above all had in common was known  history of mental problems or medication, but the laws did not protect society against those types. That's why I was suggesting that these types of individuals be prohibited from owning a gun or having access to. Yes, gun ownership may be appropriate for sane, law abiding citizens, but not nutcases or criminals. These are the ones the USA needs to target, not the averagelaw abiding gun owner.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Bricktop on June 23, 2015, 02:13:02 AM
He makes a good point.



More questions.



If you are NOT a criminal, why own a gun?



If a criminal owns a gun, where did HE or SHE get it from?



The more guns sold in America to legitimate purchasers, the more guns end up in criminal hands. True or False?



30,000 gun deaths per year is not enough to remove all guns from private hands. True or False?



I won't hold my breath...
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Frost on June 23, 2015, 12:22:30 PM
More questions.



"If you are NOT a criminal, why own a gun? Why have police, why have an army ?" You own a gun because of criminals, and for defense. Also they are enjoyable when shooting, you can make money if good enough.

 

"The more guns sold in America to legitimate purchasers, the more guns end up in criminal hands. True or False?" Most are not legit, most are stolon, or sold out on the street.

The parking lot sales, and back room deals need to go. And as I have said many times before on other forums the ATF does a crap job when doing background checks.



What needs done, and most gun owners will agree I believe is better training with guns, more education, and a better system for buying guns.

Mental issues are a part of it, crime another so have better mental health help from doctors, and for crime better better prisons, and fitting punishment.

Your telling me guns are serious, and dangerous, and they are for sure, the punishments really isn't. Prison is a pretty nice place now days with all they get.

It's all free this, and that like Welfare, you just have to watch dropping the soap .
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: kiebers on June 23, 2015, 01:15:25 PM
.

Not worth it.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Renee on June 23, 2015, 01:27:56 PM
Quote from: "kiebers".

Not worth it.


Just figure that out?  :eightball12f:
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: RW on June 23, 2015, 01:31:55 PM
What will it take for the US to take a serious look at gun reform?  You guys have had some MAJOR shooting incidences that have left big scars on your country and it's citizens.  How bad to things need to get before you acknowledge there might be a problem?
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Romero on June 23, 2015, 02:37:32 PM
QuoteThe police chief of  Gulfport, Mississippi, expressed his frustration with his state's open carry laws after a man strolling through a Walmart Sunday night menaced shoppers by loading and racking shells into his shotgun, causing police to dispatch a SWAT team and evacuate the store.



According to Police Chief Leonard Papania, he would have arrested the unidentified man and his companion if he could for stretching the city's police forces thin while panicked Walmart employees huddled in a safe room, WMC reported.



"If I were in a situation where I'm in the store shopping with my family and I see an individual loading a 12 gauge, and racking it, I'm not coming to the conclusion this is good," said Papania. "While the actions of these two men are sanctioned by state laws, what they did negatively impacted our community."



After saying "Our state law allows for this," Papania said, "If there was something I could have arrested these people for, I would,"  before concluding, "Gun laws should be such that it provides us security. As we look at this fact pattern, do you feel safer?"



//http://www.rawstory.com/2015/06/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-walmart-shoppers/

I keep hearing about "if only the victims were armed", but you can't do anything unless the bad guys starts shooting and killing you first.



This nutjob is loading his weapon in a Walmart, and people can only hope he's not going to start blasting away.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Frost on June 23, 2015, 02:50:26 PM
A. It shall be unlawful for any person to point, hold or brandish any firearm or any air or gas operated weapon or any object similar in appearance, whether capable of being fired or not, in such manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another or hold a firearm or any air or gas operated weapon in a public ...
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Frost on June 23, 2015, 02:56:15 PM
Quote from: "RW"What will it take for the US to take a serious look at gun reform?  You guys have had some MAJOR shooting incidences that have left big scars on your country and it's citizens.  How bad to things need to get before you acknowledge there might be a problem?

People do acknowledge, but one side wants to be dictators, the other wont give because they are dictators, and hypocrites.



People seem to always want to give freedoms up till it's something they like, or support.



Should we ban doctors ? Of course not, but something needs done about them.



Drugs and Doctors May be the Leading Cause of Death in U.S.

January 15, 2003



By Joseph Mercola, D.O.



At one time, the main title of my Web site read:



Doctors are the Third leading Cause of Death



Many of you reading this have read or seen this in many places other than my Web site. This article, available on my home page, was widely circulated on the Internet and was one of the reasons why my Web site was initially popular. What you may not realize is that I am the one who made this analysis and popularized it. The original study was published by Dr. Starfield, a full professor of public health at the most prestigious hospital in the United States, Johns Hopkins. Her study never had the headline in it, but instead listed the published research documenting the various causes of deaths that doctors contributed to. I simply added them all up and compared them to cardiovascular diseases and cancer and came up with the above headline, which was widely circulated on the Internet.



Interestingly, when I contacted Dr. Starfield by e-mail she disagreed with the headline I had come up with. She did not feel that doctors were the third leading cause of death, but thought they were the number one cause of death because of their failure to inform their patients about the truth of health. Now this might be a bit too harsh as even if people understand health truth they have freedom of choice and can choose to use sugar, soda and drugs (legal and illegal) to compromise their health and longevity.



However, JAMA actually published a study a year earlier that could support that doctors may be the leading cause of death in the United States.



This finding is more of a speculation though, so below I have provided some other studies to support this assertion.



    In 1994, an estimated 2,216,000 (1,721,000 to 2,711,000) hospitalized patients had serious adverse drug reactions (ADRs) and 106,000 (76,000 to 137,000) had fatal ADRs, making these reactions between the fourth and sixth leading cause of death.



    Fatal ADRs accounted for 0.32 percent (95 percent confidence interval (CI), 0.23 percent to 0.41 percent) of hospitalized patients.



JAMA April 15, 1998;279(15):1200-5



BMC Nephrol. December 22, 2003



    Medication-related problems (MRP) continue to occur at a high rate in ambulatory hemodialysis (HD) patients.



    Medication-dosing problems (33.5 percent), adverse drug reactions (20.7 percent), and an indication that was not currently being treated (13.5 percent) were the most common MRP.



    5,373 medication orders were reviewed and a MRP was identified every 15.2 medication exposures.



Nurs Times. December 9-15, 2003;99(49):24-5.



    In 2002, 16,176 adverse drug reaction reports were received, of which 67 percent related to reactions categorized as 'serious.'



Pharm World Sci. December, 2003;25(6):264-8.



    Medication administration errors (MAEs) were observed in two departments of a hospital for 20 days.



    The medication administration error rate was 14.9 percent. Dose errors were the most frequent (41 percent) errors, followed by wrong time (26 percent) and wrong rate errors. Ten percent of errors were estimated as potentially life-threatening, 26 percent potentially significant and 64 percent potentially minor.



Serious and Fatal Drug Reactions in US Hospitals



    Drug-related morbidity and mortality have been estimated to cost more that $136 billion a year in United States. These estimates are higher than the total cost of cardiovascular care or diabetes care in the United States. A major component of these costs is adverse drug reactions (ADE).



Am J Med August 1, 2000;109(2):122-30



    About 0.05 percent of all hospital admissions were certainly or probably drug-related.



    Incidence figures based on death certificates only may seriously underestimate the true incidence of fatal adverse drug reactions.



Eur J Clin Pharmacol October, 2002;58(7):479-82



    In one study of 200 patients, ADRs may have contributed to the deaths of two (one percent) patients.



J Clin Pharm Ther October, 2000;25(5):355-61



    In a survey of over 28,000 patients, ADRs were considered to be the cause of 3.4 percent of hospital admissions. Of these, 187 ADRs were coded as severe. Gastrointestinal complaints (19 percent) represented the most common events, followed by metabolic and hemorrhagic complications (nine percent). The drugs most frequently responsible for these ADRs were diuretics, calcium channel blockers, nonsteroidal antiinflammatory drugs and digoxin.



J Am Geriatr Soc December, 2002;50(12):1962-8
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Frost on June 23, 2015, 03:02:35 PM
Quote from: "kiebers".

Not worth it.

Chime in Kiebers, our opinions mean nothing anyhow :) all are welcome.

I get you though,  :dash1:
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Bricktop on June 23, 2015, 07:50:03 PM
Quote from: "kiebers".

Not worth it.


Nah.



Just keep killing 30,000 of your neighbours, friends, cousins, brothers, sisters and total strangers a year.



Who gives a fuck.



As long as you have a nice Smith and Wesson .357 tucked under your pillow, YOU'RE safe.



Of course, its hard to take your country seriously when you bang on about justice, liberty, human rights and freedoms...but who cares.



Its not worth it.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: cc on June 23, 2015, 08:11:19 PM
ummm  20,000 of those were suicides



Please rephrase
QuoteJust keep killing 30,000 of your neighbours, friends, cousins, brothers, sisters and total strangers a year.

for your own credibility  .. before anyone see it



You are welcome
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: RW on June 23, 2015, 08:20:34 PM
Blue, I'm sorry but I'm not going to buy into the change in argument.  We aren't talking about doctors.  We are talking about GUNS.



It really sounds like your "freedoms" aka gun ownership infringes on the general security of persons in the US.



See we have guns in Canada a lot of them per capita.  We are told how to store them, transport them, and where and when we can discharge them.  Our citizens have no problem not carrying concealed weapons nor is there a big issue with the types of guns we can have.  We have background checks as well and certain people cannot be issued firearms as well as a waiting period.  Why is it such a big problem to have similar restrictions in the U.S.?
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Bricktop on June 23, 2015, 08:29:24 PM
Quote from: "cc la femme"ummm  20,000 of those were suicides



Please rephrase
QuoteJust keep killing 30,000 of your neighbours, friends, cousins, brothers, sisters and total strangers a year.

for your own credibility  .. before anyone see it



You are welcome


And that MATTERS???



Seriously...what is wrong with you people, that you think its OK for 20,000 people to cap themselves each year??
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: RW on June 23, 2015, 08:30:24 PM
Quote from: "cc la femme"ummm  20,000 of those were suicides



Please rephrase
QuoteJust keep killing 30,000 of your neighbours, friends, cousins, brothers, sisters and total strangers a year.

for your own credibility  .. before anyone see it



You are welcome

In 2013 cc, 876 American kids aged 10-18 took their own lives with a gun.  Does that number sit okay with you?



Are 20,000 dead Americans any less dead if they shot themselves?
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Renee on June 23, 2015, 08:37:20 PM
Quote from: "RW"Blue, I'm sorry but I'm not going to buy into the change in argument.  We aren't talking about doctors.  We are talking about GUNS.



It really sounds like your "freedoms" aka gun ownership infringes on the general security of persons in the US.



See we have guns in Canada a lot of them per capita.  We are told how to store them, transport them, and where and when we can discharge them.  Our citizens have no problem not carrying concealed weapons nor is there a big issue with the types of guns we can have.  We have background checks as well and certain people cannot be issued firearms as well as a waiting period.  Why is it such a big problem to have similar restrictions in the U.S.?


I think I've explained that to you before we have all those same legal provisions in place in the US and in fact in most of our major cities and more liberal states our gun laws are probably more restrictive than yours. But once again they will only be adhered to by those that will abide by them.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: RW on June 23, 2015, 08:38:31 PM
So what's the rest of your country waiting for?
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Renee on June 23, 2015, 08:59:56 PM
Quote from: "RW"So what's the rest of your country waiting for?


Maybe when these restrictive gun laws start working someone will take notice. Until then it all smoke and mirrors. Just so you know, Connecticut where the Newtown massacre took place has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the country. Those restrictive laws didn't prevent 20 kids and 6 adults from getting killed, now did they?



BTW, I'm working on a portrait of your boyfriend I will post it in the art forum when I am satisfied with it. Creative juices are flowing.  :evilthoughts2:
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: RW on June 23, 2015, 09:25:15 PM
I did a portrait of him myself once.  I don't feel it's good enough to post though.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Bricktop on June 23, 2015, 09:26:15 PM
Watch your step, toots...I am a maestro of Photoshop...



You might wanna put a stopper on those juices.



As to "restrictive" gun laws, that is pure bullshit. There is only ONE restrictive gun law, and that is NO FUCKING GUNS. Putting restrictions on gun ownership in a country where a man buys a high powered handgun for his son on his 21st birthday is closing the gate long after the horse has disappeared over the horizon. There is NO justification for private gun ownership. Not one rational, reasonable, sensible, logical and humane argument.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: RW on June 23, 2015, 09:26:58 PM
Quote from: "Renee"
Quote from: "RW"So what's the rest of your country waiting for?


Maybe when these restrictive gun laws start working someone will take notice. Until then it all smoke and mirrors. Just so you know, Connecticut where the Newtown massacre took place has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the country. Those restrictive laws didn't prevent 20 kids and 6 adults from getting killed, now did they?:


What good is an island of restriction in a sea of free for all?
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: RW on June 23, 2015, 09:29:42 PM
Quote from: "SPECTRE"Watch your step, toots...I am a maestro of Photoshop...



You might wanna put a stopper on those juices.



As to "restrictive" gun laws, that is pure bullshit. There is only ONE restrictive gun law, and that is NO FUCKING GUNS. Putting restrictions on gun ownership in a country where a man buys a high powered handgun for his son on his 21st birthday is closing the gate long after the horse has disappeared over the horizon. There is NO justification for private gun ownership. Not one rational, reasonable, sensible, logical and humane argument.

We have restrictive gun laws in Canada and it works out okay.



And don't stifle the woman.  She's arting!
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Bricktop on June 23, 2015, 09:34:21 PM
You missed an "f" out there, bunnykins.



BTW, even with your "restrictive" gun laws, your stats aren't all that flattering. Compared to the US, they are stellar. Compared to more civilised nations, not so much. However, I suspect there is a significant overflow of weapons from your south.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Renee on June 23, 2015, 10:46:57 PM
Quote from: "RW"
Quote from: "Renee"
Quote from: "RW"So what's the rest of your country waiting for?


Maybe when these restrictive gun laws start working someone will take notice. Until then it all smoke and mirrors. Just so you know, Connecticut where the Newtown massacre took place has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the country. Those restrictive laws didn't prevent 20 kids and 6 adults from getting killed, now did they?:


What good is an island of restriction in a sea of free for all?


It not a free for all. Here in the northeast, from DC to Maine the laws are extremely restrictive. For example were I am right now, so-called assault weapons are forbidden. Magazines of any kind are restricted to 10 rounds. All repeating shotguns must be plugged to 3 rounds. No expanding ammunition allowed , hardball only. That covers anything from hollow points to soft point ammo. If caught with any "expanding" ammo each round is a felony. That means if you are caught with a box of 50 rounds it's 50 felony charges. If you get caught with a gun during the commission of a crime it's a mandatory 3 years in pound me in the ass prison. To purchase a handgun you need to pass state and federal background checks and submit to a mental health background check, then it is still up to the discretion of local law enforcement if a permit shall be issued. All long arm purchases must go thru the federal data base background check. Transporting a firearm means cased and inaccessible to the vehicle occupants. Ammunition must be stored separately from the firearm while transporting.



These laws are pretty much the same  across the board in most northeastern states. This is a whole region of the US, yet the gun violence is thru the roof in cities like DC, Camden, Trenton, Newark, Albany, Hartford, Bridgeport and Boston.



The bottom line is gun crime in the US is caused by a cultural phenomenon that Canada and Oz do not share with US. But no one wants to talk about that, it's not politically expedient. Any attempt to open a dialogue regarding the causes of violence in the US such as moral decay, socioecnomic disparity, demographic changes and politicians run for cover. Oh no they can't talk about that, it will cost them votes. Let's blame guns and gun owners, IT'S EASIER and they get to point and wag their crooked little fingers at everything and anything but themselves.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: RW on June 23, 2015, 10:51:41 PM
I accept that it's cultural and limited to your country.  I have no problem talking about the causes of gun violence including socio-economic factors but it's something I see the RIGHT avoid like the plague.  Why is that?
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Bricktop on June 23, 2015, 11:04:57 PM
Well, derp...who'da thunk it, Ms. Obvious.



We're not stupid. We know what the cultural factors are. It does not change the reality that NO GUNS means NO GUN DEATHS...now, I know that won't happen...but try FEWER GUNS means FEWER deaths. Get as many guns as you can out of circulation.



There is NO justification to own a firearm. None!
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Renee on June 23, 2015, 11:11:24 PM
Quote from: "RW"I accept that it's cultural and limited to your country.  I have no problem talking about the causes of gun violence including socio-economic factors but it's something I see the RIGHT avoid like the plague.  Why is that?


It's pretty much universally avoided by both political sides of the argument. The LEFT only pays it lip service especially when the TV cameras are near. As I stated, addressing the issues that are the root cause of crime and violence in the US, rock the boat and politicians don't like to......rock the boat. They might fall out. It's easier and lazier to call for a bandaid and LOOK like they are doing something rather than ACTUALLY doing something. It's more about perpetuation of there positions of power than doing the business of the people. That is what Washington politics is reduced to in today's day and age.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Renee on June 23, 2015, 11:13:09 PM
Quote from: "SPECTRE"Well, derp...who'da thunk it, Ms. Obvious.



We're not stupid. We know what the cultural factors are. It does not change the reality that NO GUNS means NO GUN DEATHS...now, I know that won't happen...but try FEWER GUNS means FEWER deaths. Get as many guns as you can out of circulation.



There is NO justification to own a firearm. None!


Wild eyed foaming at the mouth fanatics will not be engaged.  :s0403:  :s0451:
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Renee on June 23, 2015, 11:32:16 PM
Quote from: "SPECTRE"Watch your step, toots...I am a maestro of Photoshop...



You might wanna put a stopper on those juices.


Photshop ac_lmfao spare me....any idiot can use that geriatric pile of shit. You do not frighten me "maestro". I'm well versed in Corell Draw graphic suite and Acad versions 13 thru 2014. Push it and I'll see your head on the shit end of a horse and it will be so convincing, that your mom will think it's one of your baby pictures. DON'T tempt me.



But don't worry, I think you'll like what I'm doing. It's definitely you. In fact you may even have to break down and thank me.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: J0E on June 24, 2015, 12:20:43 AM
Quote from: "kiebers".

Not worth it.


The problem with your position is that you seem to want this unrestricted freedom to own guns, but without the reponsibility imposed upon you or others.



But given the number of gun related homicides, its clear that the situation is out of control in your country. And of course this just leads to the type of anarchy we've seen in South Carolina, Virginia Tech, Columbine and the Batman shooter in Colorado.



At least Blue Frost appears to acknowledge a need for at least some preventative measures, but you don't.



Its seems your attitude is the more guns you have the better, anything to protect you against them.



If there's no restrictions placed on criminals and the mentally ill especially from owning guns, how is the society going to be protected from those types?



Sure I'm supportive of a gun culture, but not the United States. More like Switzerland where they have strict measures placed on the groups I've mentioned from owning or having access to guns.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Bricktop on June 24, 2015, 12:41:07 AM
Quote from: "Renee"
Wild eyed foaming at the mouth fanatics will not be engaged.  :s0403:  :s0451:


Translation; He's winning the argument, and I got nuthin'.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: J0E on June 24, 2015, 01:42:18 AM
Quote from: "Renee"
Quote from: "RW"So what's the rest of your country waiting for?


Maybe when these restrictive gun laws start working someone will take notice. Until then it all smoke and mirrors. Just so you know, Connecticut where the Newtown massacre took place has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the country. Those restrictive laws didn't prevent 20 kids and 6 adults from getting killed, now did they?


I thought what might have prevented that massacre was having at least one highly trained, armed law enforcement officer permanently stationed at that school. That would've greatly deterred the shooter from attempting what he did. Then in the event of an incident these 'satellite' officers could contact larger police units with reinforcements such as swat teams if needed.



They have policemen stationed at the larger high schools in Canada or those situated in problematic school districts as well and it seems to cut down on crime and keep school kids safe. So, its already been done
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Bricktop on June 24, 2015, 01:46:03 AM
You're STILL missing the point!!!



If there are NO guns, you will not need armed security and police in schools, libraries, cinemas and churches!!!



Target hardening does not ELIMINATE the crime...it shifts it to soft targets.



Besides, most of these whackjobs seem apathetic to the present of law enforcement or security officers. If you take away the guns, the problem reduces substantially.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: J0E on June 24, 2015, 02:41:48 AM
Yeah, but you're also missing a major point.

You judge the USAs gun laws without taking the historical context into account.

Their constitutio states that its citizens have the right to bear arms.

So you can't take that right away from them and its beeb affirmed and upheld by the US Supreme Couert.



The USA is not Canada or Australia where the RCMP or the Australian frontier police represented the British Crown, moulded their laws from them and where they could confiscate weaponry from these British subjects. Laws limiting the sale and possession of firearms were in place before either assumed full nation status.



Given these differences between America and the former dominions of Canada and Australia, its better to control guns rather than eliminate them in the USA. Sure, people there may have the right to bear arms, but restrictions can be placed upon them to limit their use.



Ideally, it'd be nice if everyone didn't own a gun, but this is unrealistic, especially with the United States.


Quote from: "SPECTRE"You're STILL missing the point!!!



If there are NO guns, you will not need armed security and police in schools, libraries, cinemas and churches!!!



Target hardening does not ELIMINATE the crime...it shifts it to soft targets.



Besides, most of these whackjobs seem apathetic to the present of law enforcement or security officers. If you take away the guns, the problem reduces substantially.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: kiebers on June 24, 2015, 12:50:02 PM
Quote from: "Frank"
Quote from: "kiebers".

Not worth it.


The problem with your position is that you seem to want this unrestricted freedom to own guns, but without the reponsibility imposed upon you or others.



But given the number of gun related homicides, its clear that the situation is out of control in your country. And of course this just leads to the type of anarchy we've seen in South Carolina, Virginia Tech, Columbine and the Batman shooter in Colorado.



At least Blue Frost appears to acknowledge a need for at least some preventative measures, but you don't.



Its seems your attitude is the more guns you have the better, anything to protect you against them.



If there's no restrictions placed on criminals and the mentally ill especially from owning guns, how is the society going to be protected from those types?



Sure I'm supportive of a gun culture, but not the United States. More like Switzerland where they have strict measures placed on the groups I've mentioned from owning or having access to guns.

You have never read anything I have posted regarding gun control. If you had you could not have made those comments. The reason I said it's not worth it is I am trying my level best to get back to ignoring any trolling you do or any posting you do for that matter. You are not worth it is proved by that very post above since you have chosen not to remember any of my comments over the last few years. Not going to continually repeat myself.



Now I guess I have to restart my chip quest.

*climbing back on the wagon
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: kiebers on June 24, 2015, 12:59:51 PM
Quote from: "SPECTRE"
Quote from: "kiebers".

Not worth it.


Nah.



Just keep killing 30,000 of your neighbours, friends, cousins, brothers, sisters and total strangers a year.



Who gives a fuck.



As long as you have a nice Smith and Wesson .357 tucked under your pillow, YOU'RE safe.



Of course, its hard to take your country seriously when you bang on about justice, liberty, human rights and freedoms...but who cares.



Its not worth it.

You keep wanting to beat that dead horse. I know what your opinions are just as you know mine. The not worth it is explained above. But I am sure just like Frank you will have conveniently forgotten anything I have said over the years. So it is not worth it to me to go back over all the bullshit with you or him. Besides I do not own a Smith and Wesson .357 nor would I ever tuck a firearm under my pillow. I care a little more about gun safety than that.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: RW on June 24, 2015, 01:39:07 PM
Quote from: "SPECTRE"You missed an "f" out there, bunnykins.



BTW, even with your "restrictive" gun laws, your stats aren't all that flattering. Compared to the US, they are stellar. Compared to more civilised nations, not so much. However, I suspect there is a significant overflow of weapons from your south.

They aren't that far off other nations, including yours.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: cc on June 24, 2015, 02:19:24 PM
click to enlarge
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Bricktop on June 24, 2015, 07:21:10 PM
Quote from: "kiebers"
You keep wanting to beat that dead horse.


The only thing dead are the victims of lunatics with guns that should not be accessible in a modern, civilised community.



And not ONE American in this forum seems the slightest bit moved, concerned or activated into admitting this is a grave and critical situation that must be dealt with for once and for all.



All I read, from you and the rest of your countryfolk, is what amounts to a shoulder shrug.



Saddam Hussein didn't kill 30,000 per annum. But you declared him a menace to the world.



He doesn't come close to the menace your nation represents.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: kiebers on June 24, 2015, 07:45:52 PM
Quote from: "SPECTRE"
Quote from: "kiebers"
You keep wanting to beat that dead horse.


The only thing dead are the victims of lunatics with guns that should not be accessible in a modern, civilised community.



And not ONE American in this forum seems the slightest bit moved, concerned or activated into admitting this is a grave and critical situation that must be dealt with for once and for all.



All I read, from you and the rest of your countryfolk, is what amounts to a shoulder shrug.



Saddam Hussein didn't kill 30,000 per annum. But you declared him a menace to the world.



He doesn't come close to the menace your nation represents.

It is a dead horse with me and you. We have done this to death. I do not care to repeat, nor will I repeat, the thousands of words we have already had. It is just that simple.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Bricktop on June 24, 2015, 08:02:17 PM
Then why are you posting in this thread?
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: kiebers on June 24, 2015, 08:07:03 PM
Because I wanted to ask Frank a question.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Bricktop on June 24, 2015, 08:11:30 PM
Oh, please...



Show some balls.



.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Frood on June 25, 2015, 02:42:44 PM
Quote from: "Renee"
Quote from: "SPECTRE"Well, derp...who'da thunk it, Ms. Obvious.



We're not stupid. We know what the cultural factors are. It does not change the reality that NO GUNS means NO GUN DEATHS...now, I know that won't happen...but try FEWER GUNS means FEWER deaths. Get as many guns as you can out of circulation.



There is NO justification to own a firearm. None!


Wild eyed foaming at the mouth fanatics will not be engaged.  :s0403:  :s0451:


I don't know if he or she is any of that but they sure do have a God complex and weapon paranoia to go so far as to demand others be barred from defending themselves.



It's kind of creepy tbh.
Title: Re: Nine slaughtered in the World's Greatest Democracy!
Post by: Bricktop on June 25, 2015, 07:21:25 PM
That's OK, son...I am ALL of that and then some.



Since when did gun ownership make a difference to mass killings by lunatics. I don't expect a reasoned response...but take your time...you might at least be able to address the issue.
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