THeBlueCashew

General Discussion => The Flea Trap => Topic started by: J0E on June 22, 2015, 03:57:50 PM

Poll
Question: Should South Carolina take down the Confederate Flag?
Option 1: No votes: 4
Option 2: Yes votes: 3
Option 3: I don't know votes: 2
Title: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: J0E on June 22, 2015, 03:57:50 PM
....given the recent shootings in Carolina in which a White shooter gunned down 9 Black persons in a Charleston?







...what do you think?



Is it a symbol of Heritage or Hate?
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: Frost on June 22, 2015, 04:05:23 PM
It should be took down, it wasn't heritage when it was put up, and isn't now.

I think by the book it's suppose to be at the back of the building anyhow.



The confederacy lost the war, and they still want to fly a battle flag, it's suppose to be put away after the battle, and after a war is over, or lost.

It's just a way to show defiance is all.



I don't see the flag as raciest as much as the people who are ignorant, and racist that use it as such.

Still, it should be put away out of respect to America as a whole. It has a place, it's just in history.
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: cc on June 22, 2015, 05:24:41 PM
You are right. It is defiance. Nothing to do with the current thing, it needed to be gone long ago on principle alone



Holy hell. I have to scroll 3 feet  down to "Submit"



Smilies  3 ft down  the right side of my page



Wow - add them or what - I hope I got my "rolling with laughter one
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: Bricktop on June 22, 2015, 07:25:48 PM
Why was it ever up?



If my rudimentary knowledge of American history serves me well enough, didn't those rednecks go to war so they could keep their slaves??



I would have thought that hardly a meritorious reason to keep the faith and flag flying. It has a connotation that African Americans may find offensive and repulsive.



But when has that ever stopped Americans from doing dumb things.
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: J0E on June 22, 2015, 08:19:32 PM
Quote from: "SPECTRE"Why was it ever up?


.....because it would appear that South Carolina was historically the first state to secede from the Union.

Therefore, they may have felt they had the obligation to keep it up.



Here, a brief history of the Flag in song:



Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: Bricktop on June 22, 2015, 08:27:32 PM
Typical US romanticising.
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: J0E on June 22, 2015, 08:31:34 PM
I don't know whether South Carolina should take down the Confederate Flag.

I can see its supporters argument that it is somebody's heritage.

However, on the other hand it is used by radical extremists to push a racist cause:



(//%3C/s%3E%3CURL%20url=%22http://api.news.com.au/content/1.0/heraldsun/images/1227410412431?format=jpg&group=iphone&size=medium%22%3E%3CLINK_TEXT%20text=%22http://api.news.com.au/content/1.0/hera%20...%20ize=medium%22%3Ehttp://api.news.com.au/content/1.0/heraldsun/images/1227410412431?format=jpg&group=iphone&size=medium%3C/LINK_TEXT%3E%3C/URL%3E%3Ce%3E)



Perhaps a compromise can be reached. Displayed on some occasions, yet limited on others.Or even a redesign.



The use of the Confederate flag mirrors the use of the Japanese Imperial flag. However, after the Japanese Empire fell, Japan adopted a simpler flag without the rays of the rising sun reflective of peaceful values as opposed to its warlike past.



(//%3C/s%3E%3CURL%20url=%22http://www.jessensrelics.com/images/493-1.jpg%22%3Ehttp://www.jessensrelics.com/images/493-1.jpg%3C/URL%3E%3Ce%3E)
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: Bricktop on June 22, 2015, 08:53:14 PM
Its just plain and simple racism. No more, no less.
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: Frost on June 22, 2015, 09:06:41 PM
The war was about state rights, slavery was just one of the issues. Slavery was on the way out the door also because of modernization, even if it would have been another decade or so.

The south was actually more in the right, fighting for State rights over a supreme federal government.  

Slavery ending came up towards the end of the war.
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: Bricktop on June 22, 2015, 10:45:15 PM
What other country has fought a civil war on the basis of state rights?



I take your point, but it was the freedom of the slaves which sent the south rushing to the ramparts, simply because of the economic impact that having to PAY workers would have on their economy.



Just another day in America. Money before justice.
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: Frost on June 22, 2015, 10:53:31 PM
Lincoln was going to let them keep slaves if you didn't know to preserve the union.
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: cc on June 22, 2015, 11:46:34 PM
It did not start over slaves. Freeing slaves came in part way through the war. The south did not start out for the purpose of  .. if I can say ... saving slavery .. it started out to become a country of its own .. period


QuoteJust another day in America. Money before justice
Jeezzz. That  hot hate for the US knows no bounds .. no era.



Your country is no damned better than the US  ... it's just too tiny to do any damage  ..



Faux superiority does not look good on anyone, much less yourself



I'm finding it very uncomfortable to hear someone consumed by obsessed hot hate  .... and I can  FEEL it!!!!
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: Frost on June 22, 2015, 11:51:29 PM
Hi CC ac_flower

Secession was an excuse really, but the thing is slavery would have been gone anyhow in the near future.

Countries all over was abandoning it, or doing the share cropper thing which was about as bad as slavery in many places.



What gets me is you hear all this racist stuff, and damning of the US, but no credit for the people who fought, and died to stop slavery.

It's everyone's guilty, everyone owes someone.
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: cc on June 22, 2015, 11:56:04 PM
Hi guy!!



Exactly. See above for classic example



I'm not going to discuss his hatred any longer. .. .will just let him hate and move on without comment





Anyhow Frosty, I'm jealous. Wish I lived in your wonderful state. Used to stop in it a lot and stay a while  on the way from Ontario to Nashville and / or Florida
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: Frost on June 23, 2015, 12:02:47 AM
Yeah better off, it's sad anyway you go around it isn't it.
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: cc on June 23, 2015, 12:05:51 AM
Yes, it is



BTW - not sure if it got mentioned - Lovely Niki says the flag comes down!!!
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: Frost on June 23, 2015, 12:13:27 AM
It really should, or at least put where it belongs in a museum.

Keeping that up after those deaths, and the American flag down really does give that one supremacy.
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: Frost on June 23, 2015, 12:23:02 AM
Goodnight CC ac_flower  and goodnight everyone else.  :howdy:
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: Bricktop on June 23, 2015, 12:34:18 AM
Quote from: "cc la femme"Hi guy!!



Exactly. See above for classic example



I'm not going to discuss his hatred any longer. .. .will just let him hate and move on without comment





Anyhow Frosty, I'm jealous. Wish I lived in your wonderful state. Used to stop in it a lot and stay a while  on the way from Ontario to Nashville and / or Florida


cc, I admire your loyalty to your adopted country, but you are very, very confused. If my son doesn't something wrong, and I admonish him, is "hate" a pre-requisite to doing so?



I have often criticised my own country. Do you think I "hate" it?



Yet when people criticise the US, it must be because of "hate". Or being "anti-American", or some other silly epithet intended to demonise its critics.



Accusing me of hatred does not render my criticism invalid, nor wrong. If you wish to address my comments on their merit, by all means, do so. But by accusing me of being emotive for its own sake, you simply render your position ludicrous. Feel free to dispute and debate, but kindly do not try to assume my emotional state. I do not hate America.



I despise its conduct, values and vanity...but recognise that we are still family.
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: J0E on June 23, 2015, 01:35:50 AM
I don't think the Confederate flag is anymore a symbol of hate than the American flag is.

However, it has been used by racists and racist groups to justify their policies.

The Confederate flag was used in battle to identify the Confederate States of America and was designed by one of its generals, PTG Beauregard, a French speaking Louisianan. So while it has been misused, equating this flag with hate could be said of the US flag too. Some years ago, a guy in Phoenix shot a sikh to deth mistaking him to be an Arab. He shouted, I am a Patriot and a lover of the US flag. But does this mean the American flag is a symbol of hate? Similarly, someone from the South may sport the Confederate flag, but have no ill will against Blacks. Does this mean the flag is still racist?
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: cc on June 23, 2015, 02:00:12 AM
It doesn't matter, Joe.



As Niki said, if it hurts people, it must go .. and is going
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: RW on June 23, 2015, 02:03:56 AM
Good call.
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: Frost on June 23, 2015, 03:00:19 PM
I see Ebay is banning the sell of the flag, I think that's wrong, but it's their business.

They have Nazi stuff all the time on there.
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: cc on June 23, 2015, 03:25:31 PM
Oh the Hypocrisy
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: Phil O Bat on June 24, 2015, 02:57:22 AM
"Politics makes strange bedfellows." Because politics is not about right or wrong, but power.
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: @realAzhyaAryola on June 24, 2015, 07:37:33 PM
I am enraged! What next?! We must erase symbols of our history?! I am displeased with this latest nonsense! That flag never hurt anyone. It's those hateful groups that tied hate to it! It was gathering dust, some mold, in trunks throughout the south until members of a troublesome movement chose to revive it, the Klan. They waved it and displayed it, attaching hate to it. I am not for that and millions of southerners are not for that either.



I will never advocate for its destruction. I like the confederate flag. To many, it represents an important time in our history. I don't like it for an ideology of hate that others have associated with it. Although I find no reason for me to buy one and wave it in front of my home, I am not for getting rid of it. Anyway, PCs, you did not win this for those of us who like this flag, we will always like it, no matter what you say or think about it! You cannot take that away from us. You did not win this!!! The confederate flag will always live on!



PCs don't realize the trouble they started with yet another meaningless cause by bringing this up. By doing this, it will have a domino effect of hate because there will be those who will never remove it or take it down and that will lead to more hate. Their choice will spark hate in others because they choose to put their foot down and not be bullied into doing away with a symbol of their pride, custom, tradition, and ways. So, in essence, a move that is supposed to do away with a symbol of hate results, in fact, to more burning hate. Brilliant. What will be next? We will embrace the hijab?! Utter bullshit!This vexes me!
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: Bricktop on June 24, 2015, 07:43:33 PM
So, Azhya...how about we allow the flying of the swastika? It meets all the standards you espouse.



How about this one?



(//%3C/s%3E%3CURL%20url=%22http://thumbs3.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mqZ0VdlKpWqdNmPHcPQq-qw.jpg%22%3E%3CLINK_TEXT%20text=%22http://thumbs3.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/%20...%20PQq-qw.jpg%22%3Ehttp://thumbs3.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mqZ0VdlKpWqdNmPHcPQq-qw.jpg%3C/LINK_TEXT%3E%3C/URL%3E%3Ce%3E).

Apartheid era South Africa.



What that confederacy flag represents is a nation divided, killing itself over slavery.



I fail to see the virtue.
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: @realAzhyaAryola on June 24, 2015, 07:50:39 PM
Don't be ridiculous, Spectre. I suppose I did a poor job of explaining my position.
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: Bricktop on June 24, 2015, 07:53:27 PM
You know I'm never ridiculous. Wrong...sometimes...but never ridiculous.



Some flags represent a part of our history that are best consigned to the past. I would think THAT flag is one of them.
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: @realAzhyaAryola on June 24, 2015, 07:57:34 PM
No. I like to see it once I drive into Mt. Jackson, where it always was. I don't want it removed.



I'm sure many don't like this symbol too but I'll be just as enraged if anyone ever made an issue with it as well. It holds different meaning to different people.



(//%3C/s%3E%3CURL%20url=%22http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-b6FFXWtzWaw/TdAz_ldUc0I/AAAAAAAAE_o/5Xz0qyDTzUE/s1600/israeliflag.jpg%22%3E%3CLINK_TEXT%20text=%22http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-b6FFXWtzWaw/T%20...%20liflag.jpg%22%3Ehttp://1.bp.blogspot.com/-b6FFXWtzWaw/TdAz_ldUc0I/AAAAAAAAE_o/5Xz0qyDTzUE/s1600/israeliflag.jpg%3C/LINK_TEXT%3E%3C/URL%3E%3Ce%3E)
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: Bricktop on June 24, 2015, 07:59:35 PM
Yes, I see what you mean.



The difference is that is a national flag. The confederate flag holds no formal status.
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: @realAzhyaAryola on June 24, 2015, 08:06:20 PM
Big deal! They're both symbols.
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: Bricktop on June 24, 2015, 08:22:51 PM
I don't disagree. However, there is no NEED to fly one of them. It's time has passed.
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: J0E on June 24, 2015, 10:49:46 PM
Every flag has oppressed someone at sometime or another, spectre.

Here's the old anthem and flag of the Czarist Russian Empire.







Russia has always been an oppressive place for many.



Still, it is my favorite obsolete/defunct anthem because it conveys sadness, melancholy and the suffering of the Russian peopke. Entitled 'God save the tsar', it failed to come to save him in his time of need.


Quote from: "SPECTRE"So, Azhya...how about we allow the flying of the swastika? It meets all the standards you espouse.



How about this one?



(//%3C/s%3E%3CURL%20url=%22http://thumbs3.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mqZ0VdlKpWqdNmPHcPQq-qw.jpg%22%3E%3CLINK_TEXT%20text=%22http://thumbs3.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/%20...%20PQq-qw.jpg%22%3Ehttp://thumbs3.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mqZ0VdlKpWqdNmPHcPQq-qw.jpg%3C/LINK_TEXT%3E%3C/URL%3E%3Ce%3E).

Apartheid era South Africa.



What that confederacy flag represents is a nation divided, killing itself over slavery.



I fail to see the virtue.
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: Frood on June 25, 2015, 11:15:09 AM
Quote from: "cc la femme"You are right. It is defiance. Nothing to do with the current thing, it needed to be gone long ago on principle alone



Holy hell. I have to scroll 3 feet  down to "Submit"



Smilies  3 ft down  the right side of my page



Wow - add them or what - I hope I got my "rolling with laughter one




The South repeatedly sent delegates to Washington in order to have their grievances heard about States rights and economic matters. They were constantly turned away and never to my knowledge even granted an audience once.



Slavery wasn't an issue in it. The North had made sure that the South could only have its agricultural goods processed in the North at lower than market rates and not abroad. (a racket) It amounted to the North pickpocketing the South (fertile climate and cheap labor).



Slavery as an issue entered into the war quite late when the Lincoln decided through the Emancipation Proclamation that the slaves of its Southern enemy were "free" while ensuring that slaves above the Mason Dixon would remain slaves in Northern controlled territory. It was nothing more than an act of wartime chicanery.



Most people are ignorant of the history leading up to and through the 1860's and that's in no small part due to the reinterpretation via government approved textbooks. The Civil War had a number of striking similarities to the earlier American Revolution though. That's not to say that some dodgy ideologies since haven't attached to their own meanings or symbolism to the rebel flag or in fact, the original stars and stripes of the thirteen colonies and the Gadsden or variants of.



They were all flags of defiance against colonialism and later, its sister federalism.



There was no moral victory for the North. In fact, the actions of the North permanently altered American society in a far worse manner. America in the 1860's and beyond, evolved into the very type of ham fisted system which spurred its creation.



This flag ban crap amounts to nothing more than Federalism putting the final nails into the defiance coffin and it should be resisted at every turn.
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: Renee on June 25, 2015, 12:51:38 PM
Quote from: "Dinky Dianna"
Quote from: "cc la femme"You are right. It is defiance. Nothing to do with the current thing, it needed to be gone long ago on principle alone



Holy hell. I have to scroll 3 feet  down to "Submit"



Smilies  3 ft down  the right side of my page



Wow - add them or what - I hope I got my "rolling with laughter one




The South repeatedly sent delegates to Washington in order to have their grievances heard about States rights and economic matters. They were constantly turned away and never to my knowledge even granted an audience once.



Slavery wasn't an issue in it. The North had made sure that the South could only have its agricultural goods processed in the North at lower than market rates and not abroad. (a racket) It amounted to the North pickpocketing the South (fertile climate and cheap labor).



Slavery as an issue entered into the war quite late when the Lincoln decided through the Emancipation Proclamation that the slaves of its Southern enemy were "free" while ensuring that slaves above the Mason Dixon would remain slaves in Northern controlled territory. It was nothing more than an act of wartime chicanery.



Most people are ignorant of the history leading up to and through the 1860's and that's in no small part due to the reinterpretation via government approved textbooks. The Civil War had a number of striking similarities to the earlier American Revolution though. That's not to say that some dodgy ideologies since haven't attached to their own meanings or symbolism to the rebel flag or in fact, the original stars and stripes of the thirteen colonies and the Gadsden or variants of.



They were all flags of defiance against colonialism and later, its sister federalism.



There was no moral victory for the North. In fact, the actions of the North permanently altered American society in a far worse manner. America in the 1860's and beyond, evolved into the very type of ham fisted system which spurred its creation.



This flag ban crap amounts to nothing more than Federalism putting the final nails into the defiance coffin and it should be resisted at every turn.


Have you read Thomas DiLorenzo's "Lincoln Umasked" or "The Real Lincoln"? Because it would appear that you have.
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: Frood on June 25, 2015, 12:53:49 PM
Quote from: "Renee"
Quote from: "Dinky Dianna"
Quote from: "cc la femme"You are right. It is defiance. Nothing to do with the current thing, it needed to be gone long ago on principle alone



Holy hell. I have to scroll 3 feet  down to "Submit"



Smilies  3 ft down  the right side of my page



Wow - add them or what - I hope I got my "rolling with laughter one




The South repeatedly sent delegates to Washington in order to have their grievances heard about States rights and economic matters. They were constantly turned away and never to my knowledge even granted an audience once.



Slavery wasn't an issue in it. The North had made sure that the South could only have its agricultural goods processed in the North at lower than market rates and not abroad. (a racket) It amounted to the North pickpocketing the South (fertile climate and cheap labor).



Slavery as an issue entered into the war quite late when the Lincoln decided through the Emancipation Proclamation that the slaves of its Southern enemy were "free" while ensuring that slaves above the Mason Dixon would remain slaves in Northern controlled territory. It was nothing more than an act of wartime chicanery.



Most people are ignorant of the history leading up to and through the 1860's and that's in no small part due to the reinterpretation via government approved textbooks. The Civil War had a number of striking similarities to the earlier American Revolution though. That's not to say that some dodgy ideologies since haven't attached to their own meanings or symbolism to the rebel flag or in fact, the original stars and stripes of the thirteen colonies and the Gadsden or variants of.



They were all flags of defiance against colonialism and later, its sister federalism.



There was no moral victory for the North. In fact, the actions of the North permanently altered American society in a far worse manner. America in the 1860's and beyond, evolved into the very type of ham fisted system which spurred its creation.



This flag ban crap amounts to nothing more than Federalism putting the final nails into the defiance coffin and it should be resisted at every turn.


Have you read Thomas DiLorenzo's "Lincoln Umasked" or "The Real Lincoln"? Because it would appear that you have.


I've heard the name but never read anything from that author.



I was a history buff in my earlier days.
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: Renee on June 25, 2015, 01:23:34 PM
How about Dwight G. Anderson's, "Abraham Lincoln: The Quest for Immortality" or "Patricide in the House Divided: A Psychological Interpretation of Lincoln and His Age" by George B. Forgie?



If not, you should. They are all decent literary representations of the anti-Lincoln movement .
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: Frood on June 25, 2015, 01:31:54 PM
Quote from: "Renee"How about Dwight G. Anderson's, "Abraham Lincoln: The Quest for Immortality" or "Patricide in the House Divided: A Psychological Interpretation of Lincoln and His Age" by George B. Forgie?



If not, you should. They are all decent literary representations of the anti-Lincoln movement .


Can't recall reading any of those to be honest but I'll scribble them down on my notepad and look into them further for reading potential. I very much loath Lincoln and his exploits. Thank you.
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: Anonymous on June 25, 2015, 03:23:52 PM
The Confederate flag most likely stirs the same emotions among African Americans as the swastika does among Jews.
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: Romero on June 25, 2015, 03:44:50 PM
Quote from: "Fashionista"The Confederate flag most likely stirs the same emotions among African Americans as the swastika does among Jews.

Exactly. If anybody feels it's just history and not racist, they can blame the racists. It's been used as a white supremacist symbol so many times for so long.
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: Frood on June 25, 2015, 03:56:26 PM
Look at how many people outside of the US have died because of the red,white, and blue. Wars in the Middle East, Africa, and appointed dictators all over would therefore make the US flag a symbol of oppression and death?



You never see a Dixie flag burnt on a television broadcast.



Should the US federal government take down its flags over embassies, consulates, and military bases? Does it also symbolize certain desirable traits along with undesirable ones?
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: Romero on June 25, 2015, 04:05:46 PM
It's a different situation. Not many Americans see the US flag in that way. But a large number of Americans personally find the Confederate flag racist and offensive.
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: Frood on June 25, 2015, 04:19:58 PM
Quote from: "Romero"It's a different situation. Barely any Americans see the American flag in that way.


So historical facts should bow to populism, patriotic fervor, or misconceptions?



What about Custer, massacres, and hacked off genital souvenirs? Was the red, white, and blue flown during any of that? Did some of the eventual tribe many decades down the road also sign up to fight during WW2 under a similar red, white, and blue?



Why was that flag allowed to and continue to be allowed to bury atrocities yet the Dixie flag is vilified with a contorted link to slavery as its basic symbolism?



I don't see the logic in any of it.
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: Anonymous on June 25, 2015, 05:37:40 PM
Quote from: "Fashionista"The Confederate flag most likely stirs the same emotions among African Americans as the swastika does among Jews.

This one to Chinese or Koreans.

(//%3C/s%3E%3CURL%20url=%22http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/qctimes.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/e/7a/e7ab9b28-1230-11e2-b28a-001a4bcf887a/50745552c4aa9.preview-620.jpg%22%3E%3CLINK_TEXT%20text=%22http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews%20...%20ew-620.jpg%22%3Ehttp://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/qctimes.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/e/7a/e7ab9b28-1230-11e2-b28a-001a4bcf887a/50745552c4aa9.preview-620.jpg%3C/LINK_TEXT%3E%3C/URL%3E%3Ce%3E)
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: Frood on June 26, 2015, 06:34:06 AM
Quote from: "Shen Li"
Quote from: "Fashionista"The Confederate flag most likely stirs the same emotions among African Americans as the swastika does among Jews.

This one to Chinese or Koreans.

(//%3C/s%3E%3CURL%20url=%22http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/qctimes.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/e/7a/e7ab9b28-1230-11e2-b28a-001a4bcf887a/50745552c4aa9.preview-620.jpg%22%3E%3CLINK_TEXT%20text=%22http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews%20...%20ew-620.jpg%22%3Ehttp://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/qctimes.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/e/7a/e7ab9b28-1230-11e2-b28a-001a4bcf887a/50745552c4aa9.preview-620.jpg%3C/LINK_TEXT%3E%3C/URL%3E%3Ce%3E)


The flag you've shown is different from the flag Japan once used in WW2, and it (the flag you showed) is still used till this day.



Do Chinese and Koreans understand the difference or is it much the same in revisionist scope as African Americans wrongly believing that the Dixie flag symbolizes slavery instead of States Rights?
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2015, 09:20:58 AM
Quote from: "Dinky Dianna"
Quote from: "Shen Li"
Quote from: "Fashionista"The Confederate flag most likely stirs the same emotions among African Americans as the swastika does among Jews.

This one to Chinese or Koreans.

(//%3C/s%3E%3CURL%20url=%22http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/qctimes.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/e/7a/e7ab9b28-1230-11e2-b28a-001a4bcf887a/50745552c4aa9.preview-620.jpg%22%3E%3CLINK_TEXT%20text=%22http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews%20...%20ew-620.jpg%22%3Ehttp://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/qctimes.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/e/7a/e7ab9b28-1230-11e2-b28a-001a4bcf887a/50745552c4aa9.preview-620.jpg%3C/LINK_TEXT%3E%3C/URL%3E%3Ce%3E)


The flag you've shown is different from the flag Japan once used in WW2, and it (the flag you showed) is still used till this day.



Do Chinese and Koreans understand the difference or is it much the same in revisionist scope as African Americans wrongly believing that the Dixie flag symbolizes slavery instead of States Rights?

In Asia, it doesn't matter..



Any resemblance to the flag Japan used to conquer Asian countries is viewed the same as a swastika in Europe.
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2015, 12:04:31 PM
Even if it's a drunken Halloween party, do not wear a Japanese Imperial Army uniform in Korea. They will forgive foreigners for a lot, but not that.
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: @realAzhyaAryola on June 26, 2015, 07:54:12 PM
They have ruined it for me. I have a knack for wearing flags in the past so now I can't wear the confederate flag on the back pockets of my denim shorts or pants if I wanted to do that. I had an American flag rhinestone buckle on a big belt that I have worn on denim shorts. It used to be a conversation piece among my friends and myself and even among strangers. Later on, I decided I did not like the attention from strangers so I gave it to a younger cousin.



(//%3C/s%3E%3CURL%20url=%22https://img1.etsystatic.com/010/1/6825329/il_340x270.445108035_3fdi.jpg%22%3E%3CLINK_TEXT%20text=%22https://img1.etsystatic.com/010/1/68253%20...%205_3fdi.jpg%22%3Ehttps://img1.etsystatic.com/010/1/6825329/il_340x270.445108035_3fdi.jpg%3C/LINK_TEXT%3E%3C/URL%3E%3Ce%3E)
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: Bricktop on June 26, 2015, 08:12:17 PM
There's nothing stopping you wearing confederacy icons.



It simply doesn't belong on governmental buildings.
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: @realAzhyaAryola on June 26, 2015, 08:18:46 PM
No! The hysteria has put a very bad light on it. Before all this mess, no one cared that much. Pfffttt!
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: @realAzhyaAryola on June 26, 2015, 08:22:05 PM
I don't need it to be flying outside of government buildings, after all it was retired after the war once upon a time. I do not like the recent attention it has been receiving. It is not necessary. And no, just because I like the confederate flag does not mean I am a racist. I don't look down upon the blacks, I have black friends and bosses and...wait a minute, I don't even have to explain myself! I am not a racist. I am not white!
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: Bricktop on June 26, 2015, 08:31:35 PM
You are also not American by birth. So why are so riled?
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: @realAzhyaAryola on June 26, 2015, 08:42:06 PM
Oh really? You cannot wrap it around your head that someone like me could feel the way I do? I'm in my adopted country. I left when I was 17. I have been here longer than 17 years. Don't tell me that someone like me, and there are millions like me, should just sit on the sidelines? Shame on you, Spectre. I also pay taxes, damn it! I have a say! I am a stakeholder! As Dinky Dianna says, "write that down."  :yahoo: I still love to tell my sons as often as I can the history of this country, as well as their mother's fatherland.
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: kiebers on June 26, 2015, 08:53:29 PM
Quote from: "Azhya Aryola"Oh really? You cannot wrap it around your head that someone like me could feel the way I do? I'm in my adopted country. I left when I was 17. I have been here longer than 17 years. Don't tell me that someone like me, and there are millions like me, should just sit on the sidelines? Shame on you, Spectre. I also pay taxes, damn it! I have a say! I am a stakeholder! As Dinky Dianna says, "write that down."  :yahoo: I still love to tell my sons as often as I can the history of this country, as well as their mother's fatherland.

 :thumbup:  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: @realAzhyaAryola on June 26, 2015, 09:01:12 PM
Quote from: "kiebers"
 :thumbup:  :thumbup:


Hi five, Texas!  ac_toofunny



Glad you agree, kiebz.  ac_drinks
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: Frood on June 27, 2015, 05:58:39 AM
Quote from: "SPECTRE"There's nothing stopping you wearing confederacy icons.



It simply doesn't belong on governmental buildings.




Plenty of other nations fly secondary flags at their installations. In my own nation, this can be seen flying next to the flag at police stations, court houses, and the like.



(//%3C/s%3E%3CURL%20url=%22http://www.pubzi.com/f/392782-sm-392766-aboriginal-flag.png%22%3E%3CLINK_TEXT%20text=%22http://www.pubzi.com/f/392782-sm-392766%20...%20l-flag.png%22%3Ehttp://www.pubzi.com/f/392782-sm-392766-aboriginal-flag.png%3C/LINK_TEXT%3E%3C/URL%3E%3Ce%3E)



What you're basically saying is that no other flag besides government approved flags belong in a society. That suggests a penchant on your part for going down on authority and spurning possibly better suitors.



A brainwashing of sorts.
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: Frood on June 27, 2015, 06:03:49 AM
Quote from: "Azhya Aryola"Oh really? You cannot wrap it around your head that someone like me could feel the way I do? I'm in my adopted country. I left when I was 17. I have been here longer than 17 years. Don't tell me that someone like me, and there are millions like me, should just sit on the sidelines? Shame on you, Spectre. I also pay taxes, damn it! I have a say! I am a stakeholder! As Dinky Dianna says, "write that down."  :yahoo: I still love to tell my sons as often as I can the history of this country, as well as their mother's fatherland.


You've actually summed up the original mindset of the founding fathers for the United States, and you've done so as an immigrant instead of a native born. That may well make you more historically American than most of your US hospital born brethren.
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: J0E on June 27, 2015, 02:16:44 PM
I think people are overeacting to the presence of the Confederate flag.



It was not the cause of the Charleston shootings.



Even Obama said that its attitudes which have to change.



Tearing down a flag won't change anything.



More like lax gun laws which need to be reformed to prevent individuals such as Dylann Roof from ever owning a gun.

If South Carolina had Swiss style gun laws which prevent people with criminal records and mental problems from owning firearms, this incident would never have happened. Dylann Roof had a criminal record,yet he was allowed to own a gun. Really, the action of his father giving Dylann a gun should be prosecuted like a heroin dealer pushing drugs on a kid.



Politicians like Nikki Hayley don't talk about gun laws for fear of alienating their supporters. But its the real.problem, not the confederate flag.


Quote from: "Azhya Aryola"I don't need it to be flying outside of government buildings, after all it was retired after the war once upon a time. I do not like the recent attention it has been receiving. It is not necessary. And no, just because I like the confederate flag does not mean I am a racist. I don't look down upon the blacks, I have black friends and bosses and...wait a minute, I don't even have to explain myself! I am not a racist. I am not white!
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: @realAzhyaAryola on June 27, 2015, 07:55:52 PM
Quote from: "Dinky Dianna"
You've actually summed up the original mindset of the founding fathers for the United States, and you've done so as an immigrant instead of a native born. That may well make you more historically American than most of your US hospital born brethren.


Well, thanks, DD! And welcome to The Blue Cashew! Cashew! Gesundheit!  :MG_216:
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: RW on June 28, 2015, 12:17:51 PM
Quote from: "Dinky Dianna"
Quote from: "SPECTRE"There's nothing stopping you wearing confederacy icons.



It simply doesn't belong on governmental buildings.




Plenty of other nations fly secondary flags at their installations. In my own nation, this can be seen flying next to the flag at police stations, court houses, and the like.



(//%3C/s%3E%3CURL%20url=%22http://www.pubzi.com/f/392782-sm-392766-aboriginal-flag.png%22%3E%3CLINK_TEXT%20text=%22http://www.pubzi.com/f/392782-sm-392766%20...%20l-flag.png%22%3Ehttp://www.pubzi.com/f/392782-sm-392766-aboriginal-flag.png%3C/LINK_TEXT%3E%3C/URL%3E%3Ce%3E)



What you're basically saying is that no other flag besides government approved flags belong in a society. That suggests a penchant on your part for going down on authority and spurning possibly better suitors.



A brainwashing of sorts.

The Aboriginal flag is a bit different than one that represents a fight to keep slavery.
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: kiebers on June 28, 2015, 12:21:58 PM
It was not a fight to keep slavery per se. Was slavery an issue within, yes. However it was more about the fight against oppressive big government and the rights of states to govern as a representative body within a union of states.
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: cc on June 28, 2015, 12:33:37 PM
That's true, but whatever the lying prog media say something is,   its minions believe it as seen everywhere .. and make it their cause de jour



PC has become powerful through distortion and outright deception. It has gotten to the point where whatever rot  PC puts into its mind is "true"



PC control of the MSM runs your country and ours ... even determines elections  . Orwell's nightmare come true and "thought police" is no more just an expression



This politically and PC driven scam is just one example of 1,000s. Tomorrow there will be new things we never imagined today ... tomorrows   cause(s) de jour
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: J0E on June 28, 2015, 02:00:25 PM
...and up fer grabs next is your precious female identity, cc. Bathroom wars the next front for the LGBTQ crowd. Female identity - what is a real woman - next on the auction block. Bruce Jenner & its types only the beginning, cc. Now that the homosexuals have redefined marriage, they'll redefine women/female identity too. What's your is theirs too, whether ya like it or not, cc. And you think they'll stop at marriage? Ferget it! Get real.



That's the direction this pc societyis headed in.



....Oh well!


Quote from: "cc la femme"That's true, but whatever the lying prog media say something is,   its minions believe it as seen everywhere .. and make it their cause de jour



PC has become powerful through distortion and outright deception. It has gotten to the point where whatever rot  PC puts into its mind is "true"



PC control of the MSM runs your country and ours ... even determines elections  . Orwell's nightmare come true and "thought police" is no more just an expression



This politically and PC driven scam is just one example of 1,000s. Tomorrow there will be new things we never imagined today ... tomorrows   cause(s) de jour
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: Romero on June 28, 2015, 02:16:25 PM
Quote from: "Frank"Now that the homosexuals have redefined marriage, they'll redefine women/female identity too. What's your is theirs too, whether ya like it or not, cc. And you think they'll stop at marriage? Ferget it! Get real.

Same-sex marriage has been legal in Canada for ten years.
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: cc on June 28, 2015, 02:46:30 PM
Quote from: "Frank"...and up fer grabs next is your precious female identity, cc. Bathroom wars the next front for the LGBTQ crowd. Female identity - what is a real woman - next on the auction block. Bruce Jenner & its types only the beginning, cc. Now that the homosexuals have redefined marriage, they'll redefine women/female identity too. What's your is theirs too, whether ya like it or not, cc. And you think they'll stop at marriage? Ferget it! Get real.



That's the direction this pc societyis headed in.



....Oh well!


Quote from: "cc la femme"That's true, but whatever the lying prog media say something is,   its minions believe it as seen everywhere .. and make it their cause de jour



PC has become powerful through distortion and outright deception. It has gotten to the point where whatever rot  PC puts into its mind is "true"



PC control of the MSM runs your country and ours ... even determines elections  . Orwell's nightmare come true and "thought police" is no more just an expression



This politically and PC driven scam is just one example of 1,000s. Tomorrow there will be new things we never imagined today ... tomorrows   cause(s) de jour
You realize the same is in store for you guys, right?



pants today for Querky and you ... a skirt tomorrow  :sad-smileys-emoticons189:
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: Bricktop on June 29, 2015, 03:55:06 AM
Quote from: "Dinky Dianna"
Quote from: "SPECTRE"There's nothing stopping you wearing confederacy icons.



It simply doesn't belong on governmental buildings.




Plenty of other nations fly secondary flags at their installations. In my own nation, this can be seen flying next to the flag at police stations, court houses, and the like.



(//%3C/s%3E%3CURL%20url=%22http://www.pubzi.com/f/392782-sm-392766-aboriginal-flag.png%22%3E%3CLINK_TEXT%20text=%22http://www.pubzi.com/f/392782-sm-392766%20...%20l-flag.png%22%3Ehttp://www.pubzi.com/f/392782-sm-392766-aboriginal-flag.png%3C/LINK_TEXT%3E%3C/URL%3E%3Ce%3E)



What you're basically saying is that no other flag besides government approved flags belong in a society. That suggests a penchant on your part for going down on authority and spurning possibly better suitors.



A brainwashing of sorts.


Please...do a little research before embarrassing yourself.



"The Australian Aboriginal Flag is a flag that represents Aboriginal Australians. It is one of the official "Flags of Australia", and holds special legal and political status, but it is not the "Australian National Flag". It is often flown together with the national flag and with the Torres Strait Islander Flag, which is also an official flag of Australia."



The aboriginal flag is GOVERNMENT APPROVED.



As to your suggestion as to my "penchant"...wtf are you talking about?
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: ELPHUPPHY on June 29, 2015, 07:14:22 AM
The Confederate flag does not control what Southerners think. Bigots are bigots, racists at racists, no matter what flag flies.
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: Frood on June 29, 2015, 10:31:05 AM
Quote from: "SPECTRE"
Quote from: "Dinky Dianna"
Quote from: "SPECTRE"There's nothing stopping you wearing confederacy icons.



It simply doesn't belong on governmental buildings.




Plenty of other nations fly secondary flags at their installations. In my own nation, this can be seen flying next to the flag at police stations, court houses, and the like.



(//%3C/s%3E%3CURL%20url=%22http://www.pubzi.com/f/392782-sm-392766-aboriginal-flag.png%22%3E%3CLINK_TEXT%20text=%22http://www.pubzi.com/f/392782-sm-392766%20...%20l-flag.png%22%3Ehttp://www.pubzi.com/f/392782-sm-392766-aboriginal-flag.png%3C/LINK_TEXT%3E%3C/URL%3E%3Ce%3E)



What you're basically saying is that no other flag besides government approved flags belong in a society. That suggests a penchant on your part for going down on authority and spurning possibly better suitors.



A brainwashing of sorts.


Please...do a little research before embarrassing yourself.



"The Australian Aboriginal Flag is a flag that represents Aboriginal Australians. It is one of the official "Flags of Australia", and holds special legal and political status, but it is not the "Australian National Flag". It is often flown together with the national flag and with the Torres Strait Islander Flag, which is also an official flag of Australia."



The aboriginal flag is GOVERNMENT APPROVED.


Exactly! although the Dixie flag being discussed still has regional rights to remain up.


QuoteAs to your suggestion as to my "penchant"...wtf are you talking about? (aka: Oooh, government dictate tastes so creamylicious. Nom nom nom nom nom)


^ Precisely ^  :MG_216:



How long have worshiped the State like a bible belt douchebag? Most of your political or social commentary posts are littered with indications of extreme right wing stupidity.



It's almost painful to read your feeble attempts at promoting topical forum divisions. You should feel lucky I even bothered to respond to you this time.



You're welcome, incidentally.
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2015, 02:41:25 PM
In some ways I like the Confederate flag. I sure as fuck don't mean the white trash KKK lunacy. To me it represents rebellion. Basically giving the middle finger to the massive beast we call the state.
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: RW on June 29, 2015, 03:17:25 PM
Quote from: "cc la femme"That's true, but whatever the lying prog media say something is,   its minions believe it as seen everywhere .. and make it their cause de jour



PC has become powerful through distortion and outright deception. It has gotten to the point where whatever rot  PC puts into its mind is "true"



PC control of the MSM runs your country and ours ... even determines elections  . Orwell's nightmare come true and "thought police" is no more just an expression



This politically and PC driven scam is just one example of 1,000s. Tomorrow there will be new things we never imagined today ... tomorrows   cause(s) de jour

It's not PC bullshit.  I argued it had nothing to do with slavery and I got smacked with history pages.



"Slave states" declared secession from the U.S. Slavery is touted as the driving factor in political tensions.  Should we re-write history to suit your PC bullshit crusade cc?
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: Frood on June 29, 2015, 03:46:31 PM
Quote from: "Shen Li"In some ways I like the Confederate flag. I sure as fuck don't mean the white trash KKK lunacy. To me it represents rebellion. Basically giving the middle finger to the massive beast we call the state.


I agree with you 100 percent on that.



Couple in the fact that slavery wasn't a real issue for succession after all other avenues were exhausted and the North still wanted to economically benefit from slavery prior to Civil War outbreak, the finger should ALWAYS remain.



Fuck the State.
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: ELPHUPPHY on June 29, 2015, 04:12:54 PM
Quote from: "Dinky Dianna"
Quote from: "Shen Li"In some ways I like the Confederate flag. I sure as fuck don't mean the white trash KKK lunacy. To me it represents rebellion. Basically giving the middle finger to the massive beast we call the state.


I agree with you 100 percent on that.



Couple in the fact that slavery wasn't a real issue for succession after all other avenues were exhausted and the North still wanted to economically benefit from slavery prior to Civil War outbreak, the finger should ALWAYS remain.



Fuck the State.


The gummint has been corrupt for many many years. They turn their back on those who deserve to be supported, and support those who don't deserve to be supported. All the time, looking for a way to make themselves richer, more powerful, and to look better in the world viewpoint.
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: Romero on June 29, 2015, 04:13:22 PM
Funny how every history reference knows that slavery was a major reason for the civil war.


QuoteIn the spring of 1861, decades of simmering tensions between the northern and southern United States over issues including states' rights versus federal authority, westward expansion and slavery exploded into the American Civil War (1861-65). The election of the anti-slavery Republican Abraham Lincoln as president in 1860 caused seven southern states to secede from the Union to form the Confederate States of America; four more joined them after the first shots of the Civil War were fired.



In the mid-19th century, while the United States was experiencing an era of tremendous growth, a fundamental economic difference existed between the country's northern and southern regions. While in the North, manufacturing and industry was well established, and agriculture was mostly limited to small-scale farms, the South's economy was based on a system of large-scale farming that depended on the labor of black slaves to grow certain crops, especially cotton and tobacco. Growing abolitionist sentiment in the North after the 1830s and northern opposition to slavery's extension into the new western territories led many southerners to fear that the existence of slavery in america–and thus the backbone of their economy–was in danger.



In 1854, the U.S. Congress passed the Kansas-Nebraska Act, which essentially opened all new territories to slavery by asserting the rule of popular sovereignty over congressional edict. Pro- and anti-slavery forces struggled violently in "Bleeding Kansas," while opposition to the act in the North led to the formation of the Republican Party, a new political entity based on the principle of opposing slavery's extension into the western territories. After the Supreme Court's ruling in the Dred Scott case (1857) confirmed the legality of slavery in the territories, the abolitionist John Brown's raid at Harper's Ferry in 1859 convinced more and more southerners that their northern neighbors were bent on the destruction of the "peculiar institution" that sustained them. Lincoln's election in November 1860 was the final straw, and within three months seven southern states–South Carolina, Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana and Texas–had seceded from the United States.



//http://www.history.com/topics/american-civil-war/american-civil-war-history

That didn't happen???
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: Frood on June 29, 2015, 04:19:25 PM
Quote from: "Romero"Funny how every history reference knows that slavery was a major reason for the civil war.


QuoteIn the spring of 1861, decades of simmering tensions between the northern and southern United States over issues including states' rights versus federal authority, westward expansion and slavery exploded into the American Civil War (1861-65). The election of the anti-slavery Republican Abraham Lincoln as president in 1860 caused seven southern states to secede from the Union to form the Confederate States of America; four more joined them after the first shots of the Civil War were fired.



In the mid-19th century, while the United States was experiencing an era of tremendous growth, a fundamental economic difference existed between the country's northern and southern regions. While in the North, manufacturing and industry was well established, and agriculture was mostly limited to small-scale farms, the South's economy was based on a system of large-scale farming that depended on the labor of black slaves to grow certain crops, especially cotton and tobacco. Growing abolitionist sentiment in the North after the 1830s and northern opposition to slavery's extension into the new western territories led many southerners to fear that the existence of slavery in america–and thus the backbone of their economy–was in danger.



In 1854, the U.S. Congress passed the Kansas-Nebraska Act, which essentially opened all new territories to slavery by asserting the rule of popular sovereignty over congressional edict. Pro- and anti-slavery forces struggled violently in "Bleeding Kansas," while opposition to the act in the North led to the formation of the Republican Party, a new political entity based on the principle of opposing slavery's extension into the western territories. After the Supreme Court's ruling in the Dred Scott case (1857) confirmed the legality of slavery in the territories, the abolitionist John Brown's raid at Harper's Ferry in 1859 convinced more and more southerners that their northern neighbors were bent on the destruction of the "peculiar institution" that sustained them. Lincoln's election in November 1860 was the final straw, and within three months seven southern states–South Carolina, Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana and Texas–had seceded from the United States.



//http://www.history.com/topics/american-civil-war/american-civil-war-history

That didn't happen???


Not as that snippet explained it, no.



The issue was economics and States rights until succession (where slavery as an issue snuck in later in the war) because the North was losing and the lucrative profits of slave driven agriculture in the South were set to eradicate the North's manufacturing authority should Europe get raw materials directly from the South without the North getting its bigger than normal cut.
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: Romero on June 29, 2015, 04:49:13 PM
So there was no Kansas-Nebraska Act, "Bleeding Kansas", Dred Scott case or formation of the Republican Party? And I suppose the southern states didn't actually secede, and I suppose there was actually no slavery in the south at all!



Being ignorant of history can't change history.
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: Frood on June 29, 2015, 04:58:56 PM
Quote from: "Romero"So there was no Kansas-Nebraska Act, "Bleeding Kansas", Dred Scott case or formation of the Republican Party? And I suppose the southern states didn't actually secede, and I suppose there was actually no slavery in the south at all!



Being ignorant of history can't change history.


If you care to discuss the Whig Party, go for it.



Calling anyone else ignorant of the historical facts, well, you clamp down on that dick with buttocks apart and with a zany sense of imbalance and morbid fear of lubrication factors.
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: Bricktop on June 29, 2015, 07:51:36 PM
Quote from: "Dinky Dianna"
Quote from: "Romero"So there was no Kansas-Nebraska Act, "Bleeding Kansas", Dred Scott case or formation of the Republican Party? And I suppose the southern states didn't actually secede, and I suppose there was actually no slavery in the south at all!



Being ignorant of history can't change history.


If you care to discuss the Whig Party, go for it.



Calling anyone else ignorant of the historical facts, well, you clamp down on that dick with buttocks apart and with a zany sense of imbalance and morbid fear of lubrication factors.


Your grasp of "fact" has thus far been decidedly underwhelming. Almost absent, in fact, on matters related not only to the US, but to your own country, as evidenced by the fact that you are unaware that the Aboriginal flag has been an official Government flag for many years.



Put another way, you need to do more research before opening that hinge on the back of your neck, and thus demonstrating how much you do not know.
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: RW on June 30, 2015, 09:10:18 PM
I'll happily accept a source that says slavery wasn't a major issue in the civil war should someone choose to provide one ... Kiebers....
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: Lance Leftardashian on July 15, 2015, 01:45:21 PM
The confederate flag is a divisive flag. It should be made illegal as it supports America's shameful racist past.
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: Thiel on July 20, 2015, 06:38:50 PM
Quote from: "RW"I'll happily accept a source that says slavery wasn't a major issue in the civil war should someone choose to provide one ... Kiebers....

The Civil War occurred because slavery was practiced in the South, and that righteous resolve to abolish the institution left the U.S. with no option other than a resort to arms. This is a myopic view with which many historical facts simply cannot be reconciled.



The war resulted from causes unrelated to slavery and abolition. It was entirely a consequence of the Southern states' secession. No secession and there would have been no civil war.
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: @realAzhyaAryola on July 20, 2015, 07:17:40 PM
Civil rights, did you say? While some flags come down, this one goes up. ac_biggrin



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Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: Bricktop on July 20, 2015, 07:41:55 PM
Quote from: "Jimmy LaSalvia"
Quote from: "RW"I'll happily accept a source that says slavery wasn't a major issue in the civil war should someone choose to provide one ... Kiebers....

The Civil War occurred because slavery was practiced in the South, and that righteous resolve to abolish the institution left the U.S. with no option other than a resort to arms. This is a myopic view with which many historical facts simply cannot be reconciled.



The war resulted from causes unrelated to slavery and abolition. It was entirely a consequence of the Southern states' secession. No secession and there would have been no civil war.


With respect, Jimmy...you are not an authoritative source on the issue.



Point us to your references, please.
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: Frood on July 20, 2015, 09:28:19 PM
Quote from: "Jimmy LaSalvia"
Quote from: "RW"I'll happily accept a source that says slavery wasn't a major issue in the civil war should someone choose to provide one ... Kiebers....

The Civil War occurred because slavery was practiced in the South, and that righteous resolve to abolish the institution left the U.S. with no option other than a resort to arms. This is a myopic view with which many historical facts simply cannot be reconciled.



The war resulted from causes unrelated to slavery and abolition. It was entirely a consequence of the Southern states' secession. No secession and there would have been no civil war.


In a nutshell, it was a war about wealth. The South had more of it than the North and the North orchestrated wealth redistribution by refusing to recognize States rights. That slavery was a factor in the South's ability to produce and maintain wealth is not disputed. Fertile farmland and warmer climate were perhaps the two biggest plumes in their economic cap.



The North was green eyed about the South and the South had no choice but to attempt succession. The North by any moral argument should have lost the Civil War. Slavery in the South was secondary in scale to the North's aggression and the Gettysburg Address reaffirms it.
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: Bricktop on July 20, 2015, 10:06:36 PM
Quote from: "Dinky Dianna"
Quote from: "Jimmy LaSalvia"
Quote from: "RW"I'll happily accept a source that says slavery wasn't a major issue in the civil war should someone choose to provide one ... Kiebers....

The Civil War occurred because slavery was practiced in the South, and that righteous resolve to abolish the institution left the U.S. with no option other than a resort to arms. This is a myopic view with which many historical facts simply cannot be reconciled.



The war resulted from causes unrelated to slavery and abolition. It was entirely a consequence of the Southern states' secession. No secession and there would have been no civil war.


In a nutshell, it was a war about wealth. The South had more of it than the North and the North orchestrated wealth redistribution by refusing to recognize States rights. That slavery was a factor in the South's ability to produce and maintain wealth is not disputed. Fertile farmland and warmer climate were perhaps the two biggest plumes in their economic cap.



The North was green eyed about the South and the South had no choice but to attempt succession. The North by any moral argument should have lost the Civil War. Slavery in the South was secondary in scale to the North's aggression and the Gettysburg Address reaffirms it.


Its SECESSION, dumbass.



And as you are Australian, please cite your references regarding your OPINION on the cause of the American Civil War.
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: Frood on July 20, 2015, 10:19:06 PM
Quote from: "SPECTRE"
Quote from: "Dinky Dianna"
Quote from: "Jimmy LaSalvia"
Quote from: "RW"I'll happily accept a source that says slavery wasn't a major issue in the civil war should someone choose to provide one ... Kiebers....

The Civil War occurred because slavery was practiced in the South, and that righteous resolve to abolish the institution left the U.S. with no option other than a resort to arms. This is a myopic view with which many historical facts simply cannot be reconciled.



The war resulted from causes unrelated to slavery and abolition. It was entirely a consequence of the Southern states' secession. No secession and there would have been no civil war.


In a nutshell, it was a war about wealth. The South had more of it than the North and the North orchestrated wealth redistribution by refusing to recognize States rights. That slavery was a factor in the South's ability to produce and maintain wealth is not disputed. Fertile farmland and warmer climate were perhaps the two biggest plumes in their economic cap.



The North was green eyed about the South and the South had no choice but to attempt succession. The North by any moral argument should have lost the Civil War. Slavery in the South was secondary in scale to the North's aggression and the Gettysburg Address reaffirms it.


Its SECESSION, dumbass.



And as you are Australian, please cite your references regarding your OPINION on the cause of the American Civil War.


Thank you, Dr. Spellchecker  ac_smile



Nationality isn't important on a discussion about history and the effort of assembling references to what numerous historians have already published isn't a very pressing matter for my schedule. Google the subject of the American Civil War if you'd like to know more. The information is readily available.
Title: Re: Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?
Post by: J0E on July 21, 2015, 01:10:04 AM
Slavery was an issue prior to the Civil War, but obviously, not the only one.

There were a lot of others on the table, unresolved grievances, differences of opinion.

For sure, a power struggle, to see who would control the resources of the South.

And obviously, the South didn't like the deal it was gettin', and followed the example set by the 13 colony secessionists nearly a century earlier who seceded from the British Empire over taxes and control over their own intergovernmental affairs.



They thought they could do better on their own, make more money, have a higher standard of living.

Obviously, the North said No - they needed the South to make the North and the United States viable.

Otherwise without the South, they wouldn't have the resources needed to power their factories, feed their people and clothe them.

So they used their numerical superiority and money to subdue the South.