Title: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: RW on July 20, 2015, 05:15:48 PM
Post by: RW on July 20, 2015, 05:15:48 PM
To me, this is a much needed change as it is pro-active rather than responsive. In our system, these people only get help after they have offended which is little too late IMHO.
Here's the article:
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: keeper on July 20, 2015, 05:25:16 PM
Post by: keeper on July 20, 2015, 05:25:16 PM
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: Wulf on July 20, 2015, 05:51:59 PM
Post by: Wulf on July 20, 2015, 05:51:59 PM
It's kind of like telling a 10 year old dog that has never been house broken not to shit on the carpet. You can hope for the best but odds are you are going to be cleaning up a pile of shit when you get home.
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: RW on July 20, 2015, 06:12:06 PM
Post by: RW on July 20, 2015, 06:12:06 PM
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: the shark hunter on July 20, 2015, 06:21:36 PM
Post by: the shark hunter on July 20, 2015, 06:21:36 PM
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: Wulf on July 20, 2015, 06:48:43 PM
Post by: Wulf on July 20, 2015, 06:48:43 PM
There are pedophiles who haveQuote from: "RW"never offended. By tattling on them to law enforcement, you are upping their chances of reoffending. I'd rather see them treated than not.
If they have NEVER offended how can "tattling" on them in cause them to "reoffend"? Doesn't one have to first commit an offense before they can repeat the offense?
Again, seeing them treated is fine an well but is there actually an effective treatment or are we supposed to just hope for the best and just take a leap of faith with the welfare of children? I don't like the sound of that.
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: RW on July 20, 2015, 07:13:03 PM
Post by: RW on July 20, 2015, 07:13:03 PM
Did you read the article?
As it stands, people who even say they are thinking about having relations with a child is reported to the authorities. It's thought crime and it prevents people from seeking help. It also prevents the psycho community from learning much about pedophilia.
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: Anonymous on July 20, 2015, 10:31:44 PM
Post by: Anonymous on July 20, 2015, 10:31:44 PM
There are pedophiles who haveQuote from: "RW"never offended. By tattling on them to law enforcement, you are upping their chances of reoffending. I'd rather see them treated than not.
If they have NEVER offended how can "tattling" on them in cause them to "reoffend"? Doesn't one have to first commit an offense before they can repeat the offense?ac_umm
Again, seeing them treated is fine an well but is there actually an effective treatment or are we supposed to just hope for the best and just take a leap of faith with the welfare of children? I don't like the sound of that.:negative:
I assume a leap of faith. A really big one at that it would seem.
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: RW on July 20, 2015, 10:35:34 PM
Post by: RW on July 20, 2015, 10:35:34 PM
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: Wulf on July 20, 2015, 10:51:05 PM
Post by: Wulf on July 20, 2015, 10:51:05 PM
Why is it a leap of faith?Quote from: "RW"
Is that a serious question?
It's a leap of faith because the mental health professionals treating these people have to have enough faith in the patient and the treatment to turn them lose on society knowing that the patient could sexually molest a child at any time.
That's a huge liability placed on the mental healthcare professional morally and ethically that most people in their right minds would never accept. It's simply crazy because there is no way to reliably stop a pedo from molesting a child by using behavioral modification.
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: RW on July 20, 2015, 11:17:45 PM
Post by: RW on July 20, 2015, 11:17:45 PM
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: Frood on July 20, 2015, 11:54:29 PM
Post by: Frood on July 20, 2015, 11:54:29 PM
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: Bricktop on July 21, 2015, 01:49:26 AM
Post by: Bricktop on July 21, 2015, 01:49:26 AM
If they are mentally ill, then it should be to the extent that they cannot discern right from wrong, and be aware that they are committing a crime.
I don't believe this to be the case, and so its hard to be merciful. Even harder for those who protect and conceal these reptiles.
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: RW on July 21, 2015, 05:58:54 AM
Post by: RW on July 21, 2015, 05:58:54 AM
Suicide rates are very high amount pedophiles because they don't want to do it. They'd agree with you on the "good" btw.
Regardless, I would still prefer pedophiles in this world to have access to psychotherapy which they refuse in countries that will report them to the law.
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: @realAzhyaAryola on July 21, 2015, 06:44:04 AM
Post by: @realAzhyaAryola on July 21, 2015, 06:44:04 AM
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: keeper on July 21, 2015, 07:40:27 AM
Post by: keeper on July 21, 2015, 07:40:27 AM
~~~Oh Keeper don't you worry, we were told he is totally rehabilitated~~~
Im with AZ on this!!
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: Wulf on July 21, 2015, 12:41:17 PM
Post by: Wulf on July 21, 2015, 12:41:17 PM
They are already loose in society. That's the point. It's better they are loose in society with treatment than without.Quote from: "RW"
Okay look at it this way; if you were a mental healthcare professional with direct knowledge that a pedophile was lose in society and because of this program, they were not reported. Then the said pedo molests a child. How would you feel? Would you want to take on that liability in the first place? Legally what are the ramifications for the healthcare professional? Seems to me that they would need to bare a certain amount of responsibility for what happens.
The whole concept is crazy and has the potential to blow up in the faces of everyone involved. What good is having the knowledge of a pedophile loose in society while under treatment, if those who are in the most danger are not aware of them? For any potential victim it's exactly the same as not knowing and it's that the real issue? Is that really a good idea? First of all I'm with those who think that pedophiles cannot be treated reliably. There is something in their DNA that prevents treatment. Let's face it, behavioral therapy which what they use for pedos is worthless. It's little more than a glorified "just Say No to Sex with Children" campaign.
This nothing but the state and society dropping the ball.....again, because it KNOWINGLY puts one of societies most venerable demographics at risk while protecting the potential offender. Bad, bad, bad, idea no matter how you slice it.
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: RW on July 21, 2015, 01:02:35 PM
Post by: RW on July 21, 2015, 01:02:35 PM
The actions of the patient are not on the therapist. He or she is not responsible for what a patient does.
I just don't understand why you would want these very sick people running around in society untreated? Explain why that is a better solution than them getting treatment.
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: Frood on July 21, 2015, 01:38:52 PM
Post by: Frood on July 21, 2015, 01:38:52 PM
I've always thought the same. But I have trouble with these people denying that their actions are vile and reprehensible. That is a hard point to accept.Quote from: "SPECTRE"
If they are mentally ill, then it should be to the extent that they cannot discern right from wrong, and be aware that they are committing a crime.
I don't believe this to be the case, and so its hard to be merciful. Even harder for those who protect and conceal these reptiles.
There would be far more officially undiagnosed non offenders in the population than those actual offenders who make the headlines now or eventually down the line as their victims mature and speak out. I highly doubt any child has ever been born and their first memorable thought was "when I grow up, I want to have sex with children". There were environmental instances in the early development of such adults which triggered that illness of thought and the mixed messages society spits out about youth, beauty, innocence, adulthood, and legality also has some level of culpability for it.
This discussion is not about actual offenders. It's about those who are afraid they might have it in themselves to possibly offend and want help understanding such urges in order to heal themselves and arrive at a peace for everyone. Thoughts should never be persecuted. Actions should.
There is a difference between a pedophile and a child molester and that difference is an action. Those seeking help do not want to offend. They want help treating their disorder.Quote from: "RW"
The actions of the patient are not on the therapist. He or she is not responsible for what a patient does.
I just don't understand why you would want these very sick people running around in society untreated? Explain why that is a better solution than them getting treatment.
That.
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: Wulf on July 21, 2015, 02:32:44 PM
Post by: Wulf on July 21, 2015, 02:32:44 PM
There is a difference between a pedophile and a child molester and that difference is an action. Those seeking help do not want to offend. They want help treating their disorder.Quote from: "RW"
The actions of the patient are not on the therapist. He or she is not responsible for what a patient does.
I just don't understand why you would want these very sick people running around in society untreated? Explain why that is a better solution than them getting treatment.
I'm sure those pedophiles seeking help don't want to offend, just as alcoholics seeking help don't want to get fucked up. Unfortunately what these people want and what happens in life, is not always the same.
I'm not saying that no treatment is the better solution, but I don't see the actual difference. No matter which way it goes the pedophile is still left unknown to his or her potential victims. It really matters not if a therapist knows because they are not the ones in potential danger. There isn't going to be a damn bit of difference to a victim and lets face it, it's the prevention of victims that's at the heart of the matter, the emotional distress or embarrassment of the pedophile be damned.
I know that the actions of the patient are not on the therapist in a legal sense but what about the moral sense? You haven't addressed that question. What is a therapist left with if their patient commits and act of pedophilia? Is he or she just supposed to brush off the shattered life of the victim with an "oh well" it's not my fault that the pedo went unidentified to the authorities? How many decent people could look themselves in the mirror if something happened, that could have been prevented through alerting the authorities? It's not a good scenario for anyone involved, no matter how you look at it.
As for treatment;.....from what I can tell, treatment is only as effective as the patient want's it to be. Treatment for pedophiles or potential pedophiles really needs to be based on something more effective than the good intentions of the patient before you are going to sell me on it.
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: Frood on July 21, 2015, 02:51:32 PM
Post by: Frood on July 21, 2015, 02:51:32 PM
I'm sure those pedophiles seeking help don't want to offend, just as alcoholics seeking help don't want to get fucked up. Unfortunately what these people want and what happens in life, is not always the same.
Alcoholics already have an established addiction. Would be pedophiles don't.
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: Wulf on July 21, 2015, 03:48:49 PM
Post by: Wulf on July 21, 2015, 03:48:49 PM
I'm sure those pedophiles seeking help don't want to offend, just as alcoholics seeking help don't want to get fucked up. Unfortunately what these people want and what happens in life, is not always the same.
Alcoholics already have an established addiction. Would be pedophiles don't.
What difference does that make? It's just semantics when they both have the potential to lose control and give in their "addiction".
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: Frood on July 21, 2015, 03:53:29 PM
Post by: Frood on July 21, 2015, 03:53:29 PM
Night, Wulfy.
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: Wulf on July 21, 2015, 05:19:04 PM
Post by: Wulf on July 21, 2015, 05:19:04 PM
One has cultivated and partook of their addiction, the other has refrained from entertaining notions beyond self derision and a desire to seek help. It's not semantics, it's all very logical.Quote from: "Dinky Dianna"
Night, Wulfy.
"Logical"? Really? I hate to break it to you but every junkie was once clean and his or her addiction was not exactly part of their life plan. I'm quite sure that every junkie or rummy out there was exposed extensively to how drugs and alcohol can destroy your life but it didn't stop them from acting upon the urge to partake. How they go from clean to addicted is the issue. It's not hard to apply that same reality to pedophiles.
For pedophiles, I have to think that the desire to seek help is just a natural reaction to the fear of their own deviance. I highly doubt that the urge to commit an offence is removed or lessened because they are frightened or embarrassed enough to seek help. In fact I would be willing to bet that many pedophiles don't even give a crap that carnal knowledge of a child is horribly wrong when they are in the grips of their deviant sexual urge. It's probably only after they commit an offense do they actually give a shit and then its only because they fear exposure and prosecution.
Not to make light of this because it is a serious subject but the pedophile's thought process is probably similar to the guy that picks up the fat, ugly, drunk chick at closing time. When a combination of alcohol and sexual need is in control, any hole becomes a goal. For some people it simply doesn't matter how horrifying or reputation destroying the morning is shaping up to be, it's all about right here and right now.
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: RW on July 21, 2015, 05:39:34 PM
Post by: RW on July 21, 2015, 05:39:34 PM
There is a difference between a pedophile and a child molester and that difference is an action. Those seeking help do not want to offend. They want help treating their disorder.Quote from: "RW"
The actions of the patient are not on the therapist. He or she is not responsible for what a patient does.
I just don't understand why you would want these very sick people running around in society untreated? Explain why that is a better solution than them getting treatment.
I'm sure those pedophiles seeking help don't want to offend, just as alcoholics seeking help don't want to get fucked up. Unfortunately what these people want and what happens in life, is not always the same.
I'm not saying that no treatment is the better solution, but I don't see the actual difference. No matter which way it goes the pedophile is still left unknown to his or her potential victims. It really matters not if a therapist knows because they are not the ones in potential danger. There isn't going to be a damn bit of difference to a victim and lets face it, it's the prevention of victims that's at the heart of the matter, the emotional distress or embarrassment of the pedophile be damned.
I know that the actions of the patient are not on the therapist in a legal sense but what about the moral sense? You haven't addressed that question. What is a therapist left with if their patient commits and act of pedophilia? Is he or she just supposed to brush off the shattered life of the victim with an "oh well" it's not my fault that the pedo went unidentified to the authorities? How many decent people could look themselves in the mirror if something happened, that could have been prevented through alerting the authorities? It's not a good scenario for anyone involved, no matter how you look at it.
As for treatment;.....from what I can tell, treatment is only as effective as the patient want's it to be. Treatment for pedophiles or potential pedophiles really needs to be based on something more effective than the good intentions of the patient before you are going to sell me on it.
These people want help. They do not want there to be any victims to the point that they kill themselves.
I will answer your question but you still haven't answered mine - why is it better for them to go without treatment at all? The treatment at the moment is Cognitive Behavioural Therapy and its better than nothing IMHO.
Therapists are trained professionals just like nurses, doctors, police officers, etc. Bad shit happens on all of their watches including things that require they get counselling themselves. I see this as no different than any other potentially dangerous mental issue they have to deal with. I also don't see every therapist/doctor willing to take on and treat pedophiles and I respect those who choose not to.
As I said, there is a difference between pedophilia and child molestation. To prosecute someone for having sexual thoughts about children is to prosecute for thought crime. Is that right?
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: RW on July 21, 2015, 05:44:51 PM
Post by: RW on July 21, 2015, 05:44:51 PM
One has cultivated and partook of their addiction, the other has refrained from entertaining notions beyond self derision and a desire to seek help. It's not semantics, it's all very logical.Quote from: "Dinky Dianna"
Night, Wulfy.
"Logical"? Really? I hate to break it to you but every junkie was once clean and his or her addiction was not exactly part of their life plan. I'm quite sure that every junkie or rummy out there was exposed extensively to how drugs and alcohol can destroy your life but it didn't stop them from acting upon the urge to partake. How they go from clean to addicted is the issue. It's not hard to apply that same reality to pedophiles.
For pedophiles, I have to think that the desire to seek help is just a natural reaction to the fear of their own deviance. I highly doubt that the urge to commit an offence is removed or lessened because they are frightened or embarrassed enough to seek help. In fact I would be willing to bet that many pedophiles don't even give a crap that carnal knowledge of a child is horribly wrong when they are in the grips of their deviant sexual urge. It's probably only after they commit an offense do they actually give a shit and then its only because they fear exposure and prosecution.
Not to make light of this because it is a serious subject but the pedophile's thought process is probably similar to the guy that picks up the fat, ugly, drunk chick at closing time. When a combination of alcohol and sexual need is in control, any hole becomes a goal. For some people it simply doesn't matter how horrifying or reputation destroying the morning is shaping up to be, it's all about right here and right now.
I could maybe agree with you if the suicide rates amount those who have never committed an offense weren't so damn high. They have to live with the fact they have this compulsive attraction to children that disgusts even them.
I've read it multiple times and I believe it is a sexuality - heterosexual, homosexual, pedosexual. It can be controlled but never "cured". And no, that doesn't make it all right. It will never be okay to have sex with children - EVER - but I do think pedophilia is not a choice. The urges to act on it, however, is a choice and one that we owe it to children to prevent them from ever making.
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: Anonymous on July 21, 2015, 06:05:04 PM
Post by: Anonymous on July 21, 2015, 06:05:04 PM
ac_drinks (//%3C/s%3E%3CURL%20url=%22http://i60.tinypic.com/1g11zn.jpg%22%3Ehttp://i60.tinypic.com/1g11zn.jpg%3C/URL%3E%3Ce%3E)
Too quick Keeps. A dull razor slowly slicing off their balls would be better.
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: Wulf on July 21, 2015, 06:07:03 PM
Post by: Wulf on July 21, 2015, 06:07:03 PM
There is a difference between a pedophile and a child molester and that difference is an action. Those seeking help do not want to offend. They want help treating their disorder.Quote from: "RW"
The actions of the patient are not on the therapist. He or she is not responsible for what a patient does.
I just don't understand why you would want these very sick people running around in society untreated? Explain why that is a better solution than them getting treatment.
I'm sure those pedophiles seeking help don't want to offend, just as alcoholics seeking help don't want to get fucked up. Unfortunately what these people want and what happens in life, is not always the same.
I'm not saying that no treatment is the better solution, but I don't see the actual difference. No matter which way it goes the pedophile is still left unknown to his or her potential victims. It really matters not if a therapist knows because they are not the ones in potential danger. There isn't going to be a damn bit of difference to a victim and lets face it, it's the prevention of victims that's at the heart of the matter, the emotional distress or embarrassment of the pedophile be damned.
I know that the actions of the patient are not on the therapist in a legal sense but what about the moral sense? You haven't addressed that question. What is a therapist left with if their patient commits and act of pedophilia? Is he or she just supposed to brush off the shattered life of the victim with an "oh well" it's not my fault that the pedo went unidentified to the authorities? How many decent people could look themselves in the mirror if something happened, that could have been prevented through alerting the authorities? It's not a good scenario for anyone involved, no matter how you look at it.
As for treatment;.....from what I can tell, treatment is only as effective as the patient want's it to be. Treatment for pedophiles or potential pedophiles really needs to be based on something more effective than the good intentions of the patient before you are going to sell me on it.
These people want help. They do not want there to be any victims to the point that they kill themselves.
I will answer your question but you still haven't answered mine - why is it better for them to go without treatment at all? The treatment at the moment is Cognitive Behavioural Therapy and its better than nothing IMHO.
Therapists are trained professionals just like nurses, doctors, police officers, etc. Bad shit happens on all of their watches including things that require they get counselling themselves. I see this as no different than any other potentially dangerous mental issue they have to deal with. I also don't see every therapist/doctor willing to take on and treat pedophiles and I respect those who choose not to.
As I said, there is a difference between pedophilia and child molestation. To prosecute someone for having sexual thoughts about children is to prosecute for thought crime. Is that right?
I didn't say that it is better for them to go without treatment. I expressed doubt that behavioral therapy was effective enough to control the compulsive urge. I'm sure that for the truly committed it may work but I think for the majority it's probably akin to wishful thinking. I don't know what the best treatment is but I'm not willing to risk any child's potential welfare and safety on a premise of what amounts to "just say no".
As for prosecuting someone for their thoughts; that is a dangerous and disturbing concept regardless of the circumstance. Unfortunately in this circumstance there is the potential for harm to a random innocent life. Maybe we need to put people like this on a watched list so that the child welfare authorities can monitor them while they are submitting to treatment. I just don't believe that keeping it a total secret of this type benefits any potential victim. If you have been deemed a danger or think of yourself as a danger to a group of people in the general public then I'm not sure we have the moral or ethical grounds to keep it a secret.
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: RW on July 21, 2015, 06:15:56 PM
Post by: RW on July 21, 2015, 06:15:56 PM
The problem is, if they aren't afforded patient confidentiality, they don't come forward. So what do you do?
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: the shark hunter on July 22, 2015, 06:22:47 PM
Post by: the shark hunter on July 22, 2015, 06:22:47 PM
There is a difference between a pedophile and a child molester and that difference is an action. Those seeking help do not want to offend. They want help treating their disorder.Quote from: "RW"
The actions of the patient are not on the therapist. He or she is not responsible for what a patient does.
I just don't understand why you would want these very sick people running around in society untreated? Explain why that is a better solution than them getting treatment.
... make up your mind, RW. is it a sickness or their sexuality as you stated prior to the above post? you can't have it both ways you know ...
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: RW on July 22, 2015, 06:39:24 PM
Post by: RW on July 22, 2015, 06:39:24 PM
Personally, I think it is a sexuality which apparently is seen in other species as well.
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: the shark hunter on July 22, 2015, 08:40:28 PM
Post by: the shark hunter on July 22, 2015, 08:40:28 PM
What does it matter what it is sharky? Pedophilia is pedophilia regardless of the cause.Quote from: "RW"
Personally, I think it is a sexuality which apparently is seen in other species as well.
... if there's child abuse going on then something should be done by way of interdiction. but when it's nothing more than looking at photos i don't think it's a law enforcement issue ...
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: RW on July 22, 2015, 08:47:10 PM
Post by: RW on July 22, 2015, 08:47:10 PM
What does it matter what it is sharky? Pedophilia is pedophilia regardless of the cause.Quote from: "RW"
Personally, I think it is a sexuality which apparently is seen in other species as well.
... if there's child abuse going on then something should be done by way of interdiction. but when it's nothing more than looking at photos i don't think it's a law enforcement issue ...
Child pornography is illegal to possess.
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: the shark hunter on July 22, 2015, 08:52:49 PM
Post by: the shark hunter on July 22, 2015, 08:52:49 PM
What does it matter what it is sharky? Pedophilia is pedophilia regardless of the cause.Quote from: "RW"
Personally, I think it is a sexuality which apparently is seen in other species as well.
... if there's child abuse going on then something should be done by way of interdiction. but when it's nothing more than looking at photos i don't think it's a law enforcement issue ...
Child pornography is illegal to possess.
... yes, the government has made that very clear. however what they try to call child porn is ridiculous. for instance any nude pic of a minor is child porn to them, even innocent photos ...
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: RW on July 22, 2015, 08:55:59 PM
Post by: RW on July 22, 2015, 08:55:59 PM
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: Frood on July 22, 2015, 09:58:56 PM
Post by: Frood on July 22, 2015, 09:58:56 PM
What does it matter what it is sharky? Pedophilia is pedophilia regardless of the cause.Quote from: "RW"
Personally, I think it is a sexuality which apparently is seen in other species as well.
... if there's child abuse going on then something should be done by way of interdiction. but when it's nothing more than looking at photos i don't think it's a law enforcement issue ...
Child pornography is illegal to possess.
... yes, the government has made that very clear. however what they try to call child porn is ridiculous. for instance any nude pic of a minor is child porn to them, even innocent photos ...
Or pictures of those in their mid to later teens could be child porn even if they're not.
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: Anonymous on July 22, 2015, 10:25:08 PM
Post by: Anonymous on July 22, 2015, 10:25:08 PM
apparently, as you stated, the problem will take care of itself. There is a accountability with recovery. There are limits on keeping an addictive issue secret. If I work at a pharmacy I have to tell them I'm a recovering heroin addict. If a recovering pedophile moves around children he/she should have to notify families. When you are in a situation where your 'substance' will be present, you have to subject yourself to accountability. That's a huge part of true recovery, and if you are unwilling to do that....you are no where near ready for the painful, hard work ahead of you. We are only as sick as our secrets. Offering them recovery treatment without accountability and integrity is redundant and a waste of time, it's enabling. It's called "working your own program", and those who do it their way or avoid the uncomfortable parts don't recover. They relapse. They die.I understand what you are saying but it's treatment or no treatment. Which is better?Quote from: "RW"
The problem is, if they aren't afforded patient confidentiality, they don't come forward. So what do you do?
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: RW on July 22, 2015, 10:40:09 PM
Post by: RW on July 22, 2015, 10:40:09 PM
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: Frood on July 22, 2015, 10:44:11 PM
Post by: Frood on July 22, 2015, 10:44:11 PM
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: RW on July 22, 2015, 10:51:12 PM
Post by: RW on July 22, 2015, 10:51:12 PM
They should be treated without fear of being reported for their thoughts.
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: Anonymous on July 22, 2015, 11:13:50 PM
Post by: Anonymous on July 22, 2015, 11:13:50 PM
The offending isn't the illness. It's the symptom. You can live your life as dry drunk. You are sick, even though you are not using.You're talking about recovery. What of those who have never offended?Quote from: "RW"
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: Anonymous on July 22, 2015, 11:16:05 PM
Post by: Anonymous on July 22, 2015, 11:16:05 PM
The treatment isn't the punishment. Accountability IS treatment. That is a huge part of treatment. If a person says they are suicidal and you put them inpatient psyc, is that though crime punishment?Thought crime.Quote from: "RW"
They should be treated without fear of being reported for their thoughts.
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: Anonymous on July 22, 2015, 11:17:51 PM
Post by: Anonymous on July 22, 2015, 11:17:51 PM
You're talking about recovery. What of those who have never offended?Quote from: "RW"
I hadn't thought of it that way Dove.
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: Anonymous on July 22, 2015, 11:21:20 PM
Post by: Anonymous on July 22, 2015, 11:21:20 PM
With addictive destructive urges, the 'using' is the 30 percent tip of an iceburg. You can cut that tip (the using) off. But you still have that pesky 70 percent mass under the surface. This is a sort of cbt. The 12 steps are geared for this. As long as the root remains, the weed is GONNA grow. It's a matter of time/circumstance/opportunity.You're talking about recovery. What of those who have never offended?Quote from: "RW"
I hadn't thought of it that way Dove.
ac_umm
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: RW on July 22, 2015, 11:21:50 PM
Post by: RW on July 22, 2015, 11:21:50 PM
You're talking about recovery. What of those who have never offended?Quote from: "RW"
Which is why they should get treatment.
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: Anonymous on July 22, 2015, 11:23:15 PM
Post by: Anonymous on July 22, 2015, 11:23:15 PM
And part of that treatment is accountability and integrity. Anything less is enabling.You're talking about recovery. What of those who have never offended?Quote from: "RW"
Which is why they should get treatment.
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: RW on July 22, 2015, 11:24:05 PM
Post by: RW on July 22, 2015, 11:24:05 PM
You're talking about recovery. What of those who have never offended?Quote from: "RW"
I hadn't thought of it that way Dove.
ac_umm
It's not addiction. It shouldn't be treated like addiction either.
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: RW on July 22, 2015, 11:24:32 PM
Post by: RW on July 22, 2015, 11:24:32 PM
You're talking about recovery. What of those who have never offended?Quote from: "RW"
Which is why they should get treatment.
You are seeing this issue through the eyes of an addict.
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: Anonymous on July 22, 2015, 11:26:46 PM
Post by: Anonymous on July 22, 2015, 11:26:46 PM
You're talking about recovery. What of those who have never offended?Quote from: "RW"
Which is why they should get treatment.
You are seeing this issue through the eyes of an addict.
Dove is an addict?
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: Anonymous on July 22, 2015, 11:26:56 PM
Post by: Anonymous on July 22, 2015, 11:26:56 PM
Oh yes it is. It falls right into text book love/sex addiction. And addiction treatment works for this. This is not a 'seal orientation'. Thus is a serious illness that operates like an addiction. It is a sex addiction.You're talking about recovery. What of those who have never offended?Quote from: "RW"
I hadn't thought of it that way Dove.
ac_umm
It's not addiction. It shouldn't be treated like addiction either.
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: Anonymous on July 22, 2015, 11:28:28 PM
Post by: Anonymous on July 22, 2015, 11:28:28 PM
Recovering heroin addict. Jesus healed me from addiction, depressions and anxiety in ten seconds lol. Hence my faith.You're talking about recovery. What of those who have never offended?Quote from: "RW"
Which is why they should get treatment.
You are seeing this issue through the eyes of an addict.
Dove is an addict?:shock:
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: Anonymous on July 22, 2015, 11:30:35 PM
Post by: Anonymous on July 22, 2015, 11:30:35 PM
You're talking about recovery. What of those who have never offended?Quote from: "RW"
Which is why they should get treatment.
You are seeing this issue through the eyes of an addict.
Dove is an addict?:shock:
Our God is awesome.
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: RW on July 22, 2015, 11:34:00 PM
Post by: RW on July 22, 2015, 11:34:00 PM
You're talking about recovery. What of those who have never offended?Quote from: "RW"
I hadn't thought of it that way Dove.
ac_umm
It's not addiction. It shouldn't be treated like addiction either.
It's a paraphilic disorder.
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: Anonymous on July 22, 2015, 11:36:41 PM
Post by: Anonymous on July 22, 2015, 11:36:41 PM
By His stripes we are healed.You're talking about recovery. What of those who have never offended?Quote from: "RW"
Which is why they should get treatment.
You are seeing this issue through the eyes of an addict.
Dove is an addict?:shock:
Our God is awesome.
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: RW on July 23, 2015, 09:09:59 PM
Post by: RW on July 23, 2015, 09:09:59 PM
It also seems to require a heaping pile of public education.
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: Wulf on July 23, 2015, 09:30:58 PM
Post by: Wulf on July 23, 2015, 09:30:58 PM
Before we get all "YAY GOD" up in here, pedophilia is not classed as an addiction and should not be treated as one. It requires a different set of treatment than addiction.Quote from: "RW"
It also seems to require a heaping pile of public education.
So now we've gone from needing to treat them to needing to understand them? If it is a sexual preference as you claim, how is understanding them even possible? I don't think the how's and why's of sexual preferences can be explained. Theories abound but no one really knows what causes one person to be attracted to something while another isn't.
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: RW on July 23, 2015, 09:37:03 PM
Post by: RW on July 23, 2015, 09:37:03 PM
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: Romero on July 23, 2015, 10:16:28 PM
Post by: Romero on July 23, 2015, 10:16:28 PM
We try to understand rapists and murderers. It's not condoning or coddling them, it's just trying to figure out what to do about it.
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: RW on July 23, 2015, 10:19:38 PM
Post by: RW on July 23, 2015, 10:19:38 PM
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: Anonymous on July 23, 2015, 11:48:01 PM
Post by: Anonymous on July 23, 2015, 11:48:01 PM
Pedophiles are the scum that scum scums on, but there's nothing wrong with trying to understand, treat and prevent. Just waiting until something happens isn't going to stop anything.Quote from: "Romero"
We try to understand rapists and murderers. It's not condoning or coddling them, it's just trying to figure out what to do about it.
A dull razor to the cajones would be most effective.
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: Anonymous on July 24, 2015, 10:45:49 AM
Post by: Anonymous on July 24, 2015, 10:45:49 AM
CBT is CBT. Different approaches perhaps, but it's still CBT. And if you don't lay down accountability and boundaries that person is going to act out, whether with child porn or with a child. In fact, I'm willing to state that person has already been using child porn before seeking help, and that is a crime.Before we get all "YAY GOD" up in here, pedophilia is not classed as an addiction and should not be treated as one. It requires a different set of treatment than addiction.Quote from: "RW"
It also seems to require a heaping pile of public education.
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: RW on July 24, 2015, 11:51:27 AM
Post by: RW on July 24, 2015, 11:51:27 AM
Before we get all "YAY GOD" up in here, pedophilia is not classed as an addiction and should not be treated as one. It requires a different set of treatment than addiction.Quote from: "RW"
It also seems to require a heaping pile of public education.
CBT is an blanket term for various approaches that are based on the principle that our thoughts affect our feelings which affect our actions. That is the basics of CBT. Beyond that, there are different approaches within in depending on who is being treated.
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: Wulf on July 24, 2015, 01:20:40 PM
Post by: Wulf on July 24, 2015, 01:20:40 PM
I dunno Wulf. I just think ignorance isn't helping the situation.Quote from: "RW"
You're correct, ignorance never helps but if it is a sexual preference, then you are never going to figure out what makes them tick.
I think that's why behavioral therapy as a treatment isn't very unreliable. IMHO, if you can't pinpoint what drives a person to do what they do you have lost most of the battle.
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: RW on July 24, 2015, 06:08:45 PM
Post by: RW on July 24, 2015, 06:08:45 PM
I dunno Wulf. I just think ignorance isn't helping the situation.Quote from: "RW"
You're correct, ignorance never helps but if it is a sexual preference, then you are never going to figure out what makes them tick.
I think that's why behavioral therapy as a treatment isn't very unreliable. IMHO, if you can't pinpoint what drives a person to do what they do you have lost most of the battle.
They don't know what causes a lot of mental disorders.
The idea isn't to "cure" them so much as help them control their urges to offend. Again, it boils down to treatment vs no treatment. I would rather they be treated than not.
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: Anonymous on July 24, 2015, 06:54:14 PM
Post by: Anonymous on July 24, 2015, 06:54:14 PM
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: Wulf on July 24, 2015, 08:05:15 PM
Post by: Wulf on July 24, 2015, 08:05:15 PM
I dunno Wulf. I just think ignorance isn't helping the situation.Quote from: "RW"
You're correct, ignorance never helps but if it is a sexual preference, then you are never going to figure out what makes them tick.
I think that's why behavioral therapy as a treatment isn't very unreliable. IMHO, if you can't pinpoint what drives a person to do what they do you have lost most of the battle.
They don't know what causes a lot of mental disorders.
The idea isn't to "cure" them so much as help them control their urges to offend. Again, it boils down to treatment vs no treatment. I would rather they be treated than not.
Well is it a mental disorder or a sexual preference?
Why can't the goal be to cure them? The current treatment is nothing but containment. Containment without monitoring is dangerous because as Dove indicated, there is no accountability.
Again, I don't know what the best course of action is but I kind of think the current course has to many holes in it to be effective. I guess time will tell but I doubt that the PC socialist powers that be will be objective with the eventual outcome.
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: RW on July 24, 2015, 09:02:16 PM
Post by: RW on July 24, 2015, 09:02:16 PM
So you think treatment is worse than nothing?
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: Anonymous on July 25, 2015, 12:38:35 AM
Post by: Anonymous on July 25, 2015, 12:38:35 AM
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: Annie on July 25, 2015, 12:45:21 AM
Post by: Annie on July 25, 2015, 12:45:21 AM
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: Anonymous on July 25, 2015, 12:47:21 AM
Post by: Anonymous on July 25, 2015, 12:47:21 AM
But he seems like such a nice young fellow...Quote from: "GrAnnie"
Ted Bundy was good looking and charming.
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: Annie on July 25, 2015, 12:51:21 AM
Post by: Annie on July 25, 2015, 12:51:21 AM
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: Annie on July 25, 2015, 12:51:52 AM
Post by: Annie on July 25, 2015, 12:51:52 AM
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: RW on July 25, 2015, 01:42:40 AM
Post by: RW on July 25, 2015, 01:42:40 AM
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: Annie on July 25, 2015, 01:44:30 AM
Post by: Annie on July 25, 2015, 01:44:30 AM
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: Wulf on July 25, 2015, 04:53:37 PM
Post by: Wulf on July 25, 2015, 04:53:37 PM
Well the DSM classed it as a sexual orientation but people went nuts so they changed orientation to interest and claimed it was a typo.Quote from: "RW"
So you think treatment is worse than nothing?
Treatment is worth a shot but I have my doubts on the current treatments effectiveness. I thought I made that pretty clear.
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: RW on July 25, 2015, 04:57:48 PM
Post by: RW on July 25, 2015, 04:57:48 PM
I would have to look into the rates in which treated molesters re-offend. That isn't the demographic we are talking about though.
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: Wulf on July 26, 2015, 01:38:53 AM
Post by: Wulf on July 26, 2015, 01:38:53 AM
What current treatments? This is a trial in Germany. The options there include CBT and chemical castration.Quote from: "RW"
I would have to look into the rates in which treated molesters re-offend. That isn't the demographic we are talking about though.
I'm talking about behavioral therapy and I thought I made that clear as well. Behavioral therapy such as removing yourself from situations where something might occur is crap. It's an honor system that is nothing more than "just say no". As for chemical castration, well if someone has to go that far in controlling themselves, well maybe the high rates of suicide among pedophiles isn't such a bad thing.
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: RW on July 26, 2015, 02:31:10 AM
Post by: RW on July 26, 2015, 02:31:10 AM
Title: Re: Treatment for Pedophiles
Post by: RW on August 19, 2015, 09:16:31 PM
Post by: RW on August 19, 2015, 09:16:31 PM