THeBlueCashew

Quote from: "RW"That's a load of shit.

Quote from: "cc la femme"lol @ the hypocrisy ^





Low wages is  really a sad scenario no matter how one slices it .. with no solution



Low wages keep the poor poor, but when a law takes it up 2 things happen to make things even worse for them



1. Owners of certain type of businesses where wages are low often cannot survive = Automation



and / or



2. Owners of certain type of businesses where wages are low often cannot survive = let some workers go and push the remainder harder to compensate



I don't have the answer, I just hate the reality

Quote from: "Shen Li"

Quote from: "RW"That's a load of shit.

No, it wasn't'.



NDP was paying some Punjabi phone canvassers $13 (four bucks less than their English counterparts)

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/world/ndp-was-paying-some-punjabi-phone-canvassers-13-four-bucks-less-than-their-english-counterparts

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "cc la femme"lol @ the hypocrisy ^





Low wages is  really a sad scenario no matter how one slices it .. with no solution



Low wages keep the poor poor, but when a law takes it up 2 things happen to make things even worse for them



1. Owners of certain type of businesses where wages are low often cannot survive = Automation



and / or



2. Owners of certain type of businesses where wages are low often cannot survive = let some workers go and push the remainder harder to compensate



I don't have the answer, I just hate the reality

Automation creates a whole different set of jobs that are a hell of a lot more expensive than minimum wage ones.

Quote from: "Wulf"Like it or not, it's they way it's going to go. It's more convenient for the customer and more cost effective for the business owner. Paying someone $15 or even $10 an hour to do what the customer can do for his or her self is rapidly become obsolete.

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "cc la femme"lol @ the hypocrisy ^





Low wages is  really a sad scenario no matter how one slices it .. with no solution



Low wages keep the poor poor, but when a law takes it up 2 things happen to make things even worse for them



1. Owners of certain type of businesses where wages are low often cannot survive = Automation



and / or



2. Owners of certain type of businesses where wages are low often cannot survive = let some workers go and push the remainder harder to compensate



I don't have the answer, I just hate the reality

Automation creates a whole different set of jobs that are a hell of a lot more expensive than minimum wage ones.

Quote from: "seoulbro"

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "cc la femme"lol @ the hypocrisy ^





Low wages is  really a sad scenario no matter how one slices it .. with no solution



Low wages keep the poor poor, but when a law takes it up 2 things happen to make things even worse for them



1. Owners of certain type of businesses where wages are low often cannot survive = Automation



and / or



2. Owners of certain type of businesses where wages are low often cannot survive = let some workers go and push the remainder harder to compensate



I don't have the answer, I just hate the reality

Automation creates a whole different set of jobs that are a hell of a lot more expensive than minimum wage ones.

One technician replacing 10 minimum wage workers per store and looking after the automation of fifteen stores is more expensive? You must base that on some fuzzy math.

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "seoulbro"

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "cc la femme"lol @ the hypocrisy ^





Low wages is  really a sad scenario no matter how one slices it .. with no solution



Low wages keep the poor poor, but when a law takes it up 2 things happen to make things even worse for them



1. Owners of certain type of businesses where wages are low often cannot survive = Automation



and / or



2. Owners of certain type of businesses where wages are low often cannot survive = let some workers go and push the remainder harder to compensate



I don't have the answer, I just hate the reality

Automation creates a whole different set of jobs that are a hell of a lot more expensive than minimum wage ones.

One technician replacing 10 minimum wage workers per store and looking after the automation of fifteen stores is more expensive? You must base that on some fuzzy math.

I said those jobs will pay more than minimum wage.  I'm not wrong on that.

Quote from: "RW"And when no one can afford a burger, they'll whine.

Quote from: "Dinky Dianna"One day there won't be manned fast food restaurants. There will be one person who drives in a refrigerated truck into the back, commences an automated docking procedure full of electronically controlled bun, patty, and condiment magazines into their appropriate positions along mechanized tracks, then carts away the spent magazines to a contractor who puts them through an industrial pressure dishwasher and returns them to the distribution center for refilling.



Fast food restaurants will have become very large vending machines with warming and cooling capabilities, touch screens at the front counter and drive thru. The will employ 2 people for each shift and those people will have to be accredited in computer software, pneumatics, mechanization, plumbing and electrical. (1 would be enough, but 2 covers for absences and workplace health and safety, because governments love rules and spending other peoples money to enforce them).



Nobody ever waits for a burger or fries, no food is ever uneatable, and nobody has the money to visit such establishments because there are no jobs available and most people are on a welfare pittance of what they once worked for.



The ingredients are still crap and those sugar and salt mining companies are operating on only handfuls of people.

Quote from: "Shen Li"

Quote from: "RW"And when no one can afford a burger, they'll whine.

Don't raise minimum wage and you'll get your cheap burger.

Quote from: "Shen Li"

Quote from: "Dinky Dianna"One day there won't be manned fast food restaurants. There will be one person who drives in a refrigerated truck into the back, commences an automated docking procedure full of electronically controlled bun, patty, and condiment magazines into their appropriate positions along mechanized tracks, then carts away the spent magazines to a contractor who puts them through an industrial pressure dishwasher and returns them to the distribution center for refilling.



Fast food restaurants will have become very large vending machines with warming and cooling capabilities, touch screens at the front counter and drive thru. The will employ 2 people for each shift and those people will have to be accredited in computer software, pneumatics, mechanization, plumbing and electrical. (1 would be enough, but 2 covers for absences and workplace health and safety, because governments love rules and spending other peoples money to enforce them).



Nobody ever waits for a burger or fries, no food is ever uneatable, and nobody has the money to visit such establishments because there are no jobs available and most people are on a welfare pittance of what they once worked for.



The ingredients are still crap and those sugar and salt mining companies are operating on only handfuls of people.

That will be the consequence of governments attempt to bankrupt small biz owners by forcing them to pay unskilled kids more than they are worth. I don't have a problem with technology replacing useless teenagers. It keeps consumer prices down, it protects small biz owners. Machines don't have EI or CPP contributions.  The only losers will be Filipinos. Can you pour a double double, welcome to Tim Horton's in Canada.

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "Shen Li"

Quote from: "Dinky Dianna"One day there won't be manned fast food restaurants. There will be one person who drives in a refrigerated truck into the back, commences an automated docking procedure full of electronically controlled bun, patty, and condiment magazines into their appropriate positions along mechanized tracks, then carts away the spent magazines to a contractor who puts them through an industrial pressure dishwasher and returns them to the distribution center for refilling.



Fast food restaurants will have become very large vending machines with warming and cooling capabilities, touch screens at the front counter and drive thru. The will employ 2 people for each shift and those people will have to be accredited in computer software, pneumatics, mechanization, plumbing and electrical. (1 would be enough, but 2 covers for absences and workplace health and safety, because governments love rules and spending other peoples money to enforce them).



Nobody ever waits for a burger or fries, no food is ever uneatable, and nobody has the money to visit such establishments because there are no jobs available and most people are on a welfare pittance of what they once worked for.



The ingredients are still crap and those sugar and salt mining companies are operating on only handfuls of people.

That will be the consequence of governments attempt to bankrupt small biz owners by forcing them to pay unskilled kids more than they are worth. I don't have a problem with technology replacing useless teenagers. It keeps consumer prices down, it protects small biz owners. Machines don't have EI or CPP contributions.  The only losers will be Filipinos. Can you pour a double double, welcome to Tim Horton's in Canada.

Tim Hortons isn't a small business.  Neither is McDonalds or Wendy's or The Gap or Sobeys or all the other places teenagers generally work.

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "Shen Li"

Quote from: "RW"And when no one can afford a burger, they'll whine.

Don't raise minimum wage and you'll get your cheap burger.

Minimum wage is reactionary.  What part of that don't you understand?

Quote from: "Shen Li"

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "Shen Li"

Quote from: "RW"And when no one can afford a burger, they'll whine.

Don't raise minimum wage and you'll get your cheap burger.

Minimum wage is reactionary.  What part of that don't you understand?

Well thank you very much FDR. Go ahead and raise minimum wage and there will be more technology replacing the kids at Mickey D's. End of story.

Quote from: "RW"Would it be so bad if your job was replaced by a computer?

QuoteAs protesters across the country call for the fast-food chains to raise their wages, a number of companies have begun experimenting with new technology that could significantly reduce the number of restaurant workers in the years to come.

Restaurant industry backers warn that a sharp rise in wages would be counterproductive, increasing the appeal of automation and putting more workers at risk of job loss.



In a widely cited paper released last year, University of Oxford researchers estimated that there is a 92% chance that fast-food preparation and serving will be automated in the coming decades.

With artificial-intelligence technology like IBM's (IBM) Watson platform making strides in advanced reasoning and language understanding, it's not hard to see how robots could be designed to provide more sophisticated interactions with restaurant customers than kiosks can manage.

Delivery drivers could be replaced en masse by self-driving cars, which are likely to hit the market within a decade or two, or even drones. In food preparation, there are start-ups offering robots for bartending and gourmet hamburger preparation. A food processing company in Spain now uses robots to inspect heads of lettuce on a conveyor belt, throwing out those that don't meet company standards, the Oxford researchers report.

http://money.cnn.com/2014/05/22/technology/innovation/fast-food-robot/

Quote from: "Shen Li"Raise the minimum wage all you want and it will hasten the push to more automation. Face it, fast food jobs will disappear in the future.



Robots Will Replace Fast Food Workers

QuoteAs protesters across the country call for the fast-food chains to raise their wages, a number of companies have begun experimenting with new technology that could significantly reduce the number of restaurant workers in the years to come.

Restaurant industry backers warn that a sharp rise in wages would be counterproductive, increasing the appeal of automation and putting more workers at risk of job loss.



In a widely cited paper released last year, University of Oxford researchers estimated that there is a 92% chance that fast-food preparation and serving will be automated in the coming decades.

With artificial-intelligence technology like IBM's (IBM) Watson platform making strides in advanced reasoning and language understanding, it's not hard to see how robots could be designed to provide more sophisticated interactions with restaurant customers than kiosks can manage.

Delivery drivers could be replaced en masse by self-driving cars, which are likely to hit the market within a decade or two, or even drones. In food preparation, there are start-ups offering robots for bartending and gourmet hamburger preparation. A food processing company in Spain now uses robots to inspect heads of lettuce on a conveyor belt, throwing out those that don't meet company standards, the Oxford researchers report.

http://money.cnn.com/2014/05/22/technology/innovation/fast-food-robot/

Quote from: "Lance Leftardashian"We must increase the minimum wage to help struggling families.

Quote from: "GrAnnie"There's always a downfall to what seems to be a solution.

Quote from: "Herman"I don't believe most people will pay more money for a service they can easily do themselves. Raise the price of a dark roast at Starbuck's and I will use a machine to pay for it and then pour it myself.

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "Herman"I don't believe most people will pay more money for a service they can easily do themselves. Raise the price of a dark roast at Starbuck's and I will use a machine to pay for it and then pour it myself.

LOL! Starbucks.  Do you know what the profit margin is on coffee?!  I don't know why we gripe about paying the poor folks who pour your coffee an extra 20c an hour but we have no problem lining the pockets of CEOs and shareholders. The CEO of Starbucks is worth $2.8 BILLION btw making $149 million from salary and cashing in his stock options last year (he owns 18 million shares yet).  Shareholders received $1.2 BILLION in dividends last year. Why don't you get up and arms about that?



I saw two things raise the price of my cup of coffee and neither related to minimum wage increases.  One was the introduction of the HST.  When the HST was pulled, prices didn't go back down either.  The second was the increases in fuel costs.



If services in these huge corps do get automated, it's to make sure the lining of the pockets of CEOs and shareholders remain golden not because Jimmy who pours your coffee makes a few extra cents an hour.

Quote from: "Herman"

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "Herman"I don't believe most people will pay more money for a service they can easily do themselves. Raise the price of a dark roast at Starbuck's and I will use a machine to pay for it and then pour it myself.

LOL! Starbucks.  Do you know what the profit margin is on coffee?!  I don't know why we gripe about paying the poor folks who pour your coffee an extra 20c an hour but we have no problem lining the pockets of CEOs and shareholders. The CEO of Starbucks is worth $2.8 BILLION btw making $149 million from salary and cashing in his stock options last year (he owns 18 million shares yet).  Shareholders received $1.2 BILLION in dividends last year. Why don't you get up and arms about that?



I saw two things raise the price of my cup of coffee and neither related to minimum wage increases.  One was the introduction of the HST.  When the HST was pulled, prices didn't go back down either.  The second was the increases in fuel costs.



If services in these huge corps do get automated, it's to make sure the lining of the pockets of CEOs and shareholders remain golden not because Jimmy who pours your coffee makes a few extra cents an hour.

I don't know or care what any employee from Starbucks from the CEO on down earns. I do know if they keep raising prices for things I am more than capable of doing myself, I would be more than happy to pour my own and pay by machine. Their dark roast is pretty good, but not good enough that I am willing to pay 20-35 per cent more for it.

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "Herman"

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "Herman"I don't believe most people will pay more money for a service they can easily do themselves. Raise the price of a dark roast at Starbuck's and I will use a machine to pay for it and then pour it myself.

LOL! Starbucks.  Do you know what the profit margin is on coffee?!  I don't know why we gripe about paying the poor folks who pour your coffee an extra 20c an hour but we have no problem lining the pockets of CEOs and shareholders. The CEO of Starbucks is worth $2.8 BILLION btw making $149 million from salary and cashing in his stock options last year (he owns 18 million shares yet).  Shareholders received $1.2 BILLION in dividends last year. Why don't you get up and arms about that?



I saw two things raise the price of my cup of coffee and neither related to minimum wage increases.  One was the introduction of the HST.  When the HST was pulled, prices didn't go back down either.  The second was the increases in fuel costs.



If services in these huge corps do get automated, it's to make sure the lining of the pockets of CEOs and shareholders remain golden not because Jimmy who pours your coffee makes a few extra cents an hour.

I don't know or care what any employee from Starbucks from the CEO on down earns. I do know if they keep raising prices for things I am more than capable of doing myself, I would be more than happy to pour my own and pay by machine. Their dark roast is pretty good, but not good enough that I am willing to pay 20-35 per cent more for it.

Are they charging you more for it?  If so, why should their greed mean people should lose their jobs?

Quote from: "RW"So why don't you just make coffee at home?

Quote from: "Fashionista"

Quote from: "GrAnnie"There's always a downfall to what seems to be a solution.

That is true GrAnnie..



I know it's not relevant to the topic, but when is your grandchild due?

Quote from: "reel"Isn't it a good thing that manual labour jobs become automated away?  There used to be thousands of peasants who tilled, sowed, and reaped the fields.  Back breaking labour that paid poorly and was generally unenjoyable.  That was automated away and millions of people "lost their jobs".  But we seem to have carried on.  People had to find other productive occupations or get educated, they did, and the world was better for it.



What happens if the minimum wage jobs disappear?  Do we see a big spike in unemployment or do we see more innovation and creativity from people who no longer have the option of working in a job where they are supposed to simulate a robot.  I used one of these self-service fast food kiosks in the airport recently.  It was pretty much exactly the same experience (except ironically, I skipped quite a long line-up of people waiting to talk to the person at the counter).  I personally think a lot of people get trapped in these jobs because they are easy and reliable.  People need some motivation.

Quote from: "reel"You want something to be mad about, try this on:



There used to be a government program in the massive bureaucratic centres in Ottawa and Gatineau where they would hire mentally challenged folk to water the plants in the building.  It gave the mentally challenged a decent job suited to their capabilities, where they otherwise would likely be unable to work, and made a nicer environment for the workers.  The Conservatives cut the program funding, fired all the mentally challenged people, and sold off all the plants at ridiculously low prices to save a bit of money.  That was a good program.  Significantly increasing minimum wage just encourages people who could be doing better things with themselves not to do so.

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "reel"You want something to be mad about, try this on:



There used to be a government program in the massive bureaucratic centres in Ottawa and Gatineau where they would hire mentally challenged folk to water the plants in the building.  It gave the mentally challenged a decent job suited to their capabilities, where they otherwise would likely be unable to work, and made a nicer environment for the workers.  The Conservatives cut the program funding, fired all the mentally challenged people, and sold off all the plants at ridiculously low prices to save a bit of money.  That was a good program.  Significantly increasing minimum wage just encourages people who could be doing better things with themselves not to do so.

The majority of minimum wage earners are under the age of 24.  These are starter jobs which give the inexperienced their first crack at employment.  Doing away with jobs like these gives those who are trying to get their foot in the employment door fewer opportunities.  



I also see people talking about inflation from minimum wage but the reason we have increases to minimum wage is to keep up with inflation which is caused by things like currency exchange, rising fuel prices, etc.

Quote from: "RW"What decides what someone doing a job is worth?

Quote from: "Renee"

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "reel"You want something to be mad about, try this on:



There used to be a government program in the massive bureaucratic centres in Ottawa and Gatineau where they would hire mentally challenged folk to water the plants in the building.  It gave the mentally challenged a decent job suited to their capabilities, where they otherwise would likely be unable to work, and made a nicer environment for the workers.  The Conservatives cut the program funding, fired all the mentally challenged people, and sold off all the plants at ridiculously low prices to save a bit of money.  That was a good program.  Significantly increasing minimum wage just encourages people who could be doing better things with themselves not to do so.

The majority of minimum wage earners are under the age of 24.  These are starter jobs which give the inexperienced their first crack at employment.  Doing away with jobs like these gives those who are trying to get their foot in the employment door fewer opportunities.  



I also see people talking about inflation from minimum wage but the reason we have increases to minimum wage is to keep up with inflation which is caused by things like currency exchange, rising fuel prices, etc.

Well since that is the case they don't need $15 an hour to take someones order and hopefully plug it correctly into a touch screen. Let's be serious, NO ONE working in a entry level fast food or retail job is worth 15 bucks an hour...... $10 - $12 dollars an hour maybe, at best.

Quote from: "RW"Which countries?

Quote from: "Renee"

Quote from: "RW"What decides what someone doing a job is worth?

Skill set, cost of the commodity and what consumers are willing to pay, the availability of workforce.



Any HS kid or recent grad can be taught to preform a low level unskilled fast food or retail job. They are also a dime a dozen. That in itself precludes them from being $15 dollar an hour employees.  



Hopefully you do not think that paying some kid more than what the market will bare, simply because of some out of touch, prog ideology, regarding a "living wage" for flipping burgers or emptying garbage cans, makes good economic sense. I'm all for raising the minimum wage but lets keep it commensurate with the kind of jobs it is meant for. As you stated, these are starter jobs, they are not meant to be careers. From a retail business managers standpoint, paying someone 15 dollars an hour so that they can stand there with an empty head and a blank look on their face as they ring up your cheese doodles and energy drinks is simply ridiculous.

Quote from: "seoulbro"Wal Mart cut hours after raising pay.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2015/09/01/of-course-walmart-cut-hours-after-raising-pay-what-did-anyone-expect/

QuoteA new restaurant in San Francisco is powered by machines, Entrepreneur reports.



At Eatsa, customers order their food at kiosks and then receive their meals via high-tech machines.



The company posted a photo of a kiosk on Twitter before the restaurant's grand opening.

http://www.businessinsider.com/eatsa-doesnt-have-human-servers-2015-8

Quote from: "RW"That is the douchiest restaurant on the planet hahaha.



I love the technology used though.  Very neat even for a glorified vending machine.

Quote from: "Shen Li"

Quote from: "RW"That is the douchiest restaurant on the planet hahaha.



I love the technology used though.  Very neat even for a glorified vending machine.

How do you know? Have you had their food?

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "Shen Li"

Quote from: "RW"That is the douchiest restaurant on the planet hahaha.



I love the technology used though.  Very neat even for a glorified vending machine.

How do you know? Have you had their food?

Because they're main food choice is quinoa salads.  Nuff said.

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "Shen Li"

Quote from: "RW"That is the douchiest restaurant on the planet hahaha.



I love the technology used though.  Very neat even for a glorified vending machine.

How do you know? Have you had their food?

Because they're main food choice is quinoa salads.  Nuff said.

Quote from: "Renee"

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "Shen Li"

Quote from: "RW"That is the douchiest restaurant on the planet hahaha.



I love the technology used though.  Very neat even for a glorified vending machine.

How do you know? Have you had their food?

Because they're main food choice is quinoa salads.  Nuff said.

Sorry but those automated ordering kiosk things are cropping up in all the convenience/food places/gas stations like Costco, Quickcheck, and Sheetz all over the US.



They sell a hell of a lot more of a variety of goods than just salad made out of Styrofoam packing material.

Quote from: "Shen Li"

Quote from: "Renee"

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "Shen Li"

Quote from: "RW"That is the douchiest restaurant on the planet hahaha.



I love the technology used though.  Very neat even for a glorified vending machine.

How do you know? Have you had their food?

Because they're main food choice is quinoa salads.  Nuff said.

Sorry but those automated ordering kiosk things are cropping up in all the convenience/food places/gas stations like Costco, Quickcheck, and Sheetz all over the US.



They sell a hell of a lot more of a variety of goods than just salad made out of Styrofoam packing material.

I was in Houston recently, but I don't recall seeing it. I saw this level of automation in Europe though. Staples Canada is using automation for some of it's services that used to be people tasks.

Quote from: "Renee"

Quote from: "Shen Li"

Quote from: "Renee"

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "Shen Li"

Quote from: "RW"That is the douchiest restaurant on the planet hahaha.



I love the technology used though.  Very neat even for a glorified vending machine.

How do you know? Have you had their food?

Because they're main food choice is quinoa salads.  Nuff said.

Sorry but those automated ordering kiosk things are cropping up in all the convenience/food places/gas stations like Costco, Quickcheck, and Sheetz all over the US.



They sell a hell of a lot more of a variety of goods than just salad made out of Styrofoam packing material.

I was in Houston recently, but I don't recall seeing it. I saw this level of automation in Europe though. Staples Canada is using automation for some of it's services that used to be people tasks.

They are here in NJ and I was in PA last weekend and they were all over the place. I here they are becoming common in Delaware, Maryland and Virginia as well, especially those that are along the major highways. And I hear almost all the new out-of-the-ground convenience stores being built will have this technology to some degree. It's only a matter of time before they are all retrofitted.