Title: It's not Fracking that Causes Earthquakes
Post by: Anonymous on August 28, 2015, 08:29:34 PM
Post by: Anonymous on August 28, 2015, 08:29:34 PM
Title: Re: It's not Fracking that Causes Earthquakes
Post by: RW on August 28, 2015, 10:37:10 PM
Post by: RW on August 28, 2015, 10:37:10 PM
It's all part of the process called fracking is it not?
Title: Re: It's not Fracking that Causes Earthquakes
Post by: Anonymous on August 29, 2015, 05:11:09 AM
Post by: Anonymous on August 29, 2015, 05:11:09 AM
It is the forcing of wastewater underground after a well has been fracked that causes minor earthquakes. It drives me crazy when the media says fracking causes earthquakes.Quote from: "Herman"
I agree with RW, Herman, there was no need for a second thread about fracking.
Title: Re: It's not Fracking that Causes Earthquakes
Post by: Frood on August 29, 2015, 07:55:01 AM
Post by: Frood on August 29, 2015, 07:55:01 AM
Title: Re: It's not Fracking that Causes Earthquakes
Post by: RW on August 29, 2015, 03:47:13 PM
Post by: RW on August 29, 2015, 03:47:13 PM
Title: Re: It's not Fracking that Causes Earthquakes
Post by: the shark hunter on August 29, 2015, 05:06:25 PM
Post by: the shark hunter on August 29, 2015, 05:06:25 PM
They are finding there are earthquakes happening during the "fracking" process - like 4.5 on the scale. Frankly I don't give a damn during what part of the process causes them, it's concerning.Quote from: "RW"
... are these supposed quakes actually felt by anyone? i'm not buying this story ...
Title: Re: It's not Fracking that Causes Earthquakes
Post by: RW on August 29, 2015, 05:33:21 PM
Post by: RW on August 29, 2015, 05:33:21 PM
Title: Re: It's not Fracking that Causes Earthquakes
Post by: Anonymous on August 29, 2015, 07:06:04 PM
Post by: Anonymous on August 29, 2015, 07:06:04 PM
They are finding there are earthquakes happening during the "fracking" process - like 4.5 on the scale. Frankly I don't give a damn during what part of the process causes them, it's concerning.Quote from: "RW"
I asked my husband about this and he told me this has nothing to do with fracking..
Perhaps the CBC is making the mistake of lumping everything in together under the label of
Title: Re: It's not Fracking that Causes Earthquakes
Post by: RW on August 29, 2015, 07:41:28 PM
Post by: RW on August 29, 2015, 07:41:28 PM
If injecting wastewater into cracked wells is causing it, it's still part of the process. Splitting hairs isn't going to change that.
Title: Re: It's not Fracking that Causes Earthquakes
Post by: Anonymous on August 29, 2015, 07:46:03 PM
Post by: Anonymous on August 29, 2015, 07:46:03 PM
Studies say there is a link between the process and earthquakes. Read the article.Quote from: "RW"
But, what they are saying
Anyway, I get my information about what fracking is and does from my husband..
I don't work in or around it or anywhere near oilfield equipment, so my knowledge is very limited, just like yourself.
Title: Re: It's not Fracking that Causes Earthquakes
Post by: J0E on August 29, 2015, 07:50:09 PM
Post by: J0E on August 29, 2015, 07:50:09 PM
Already, the state of Louisiana is suing a company because they believe fracking has caused a sinkhole which is swallowing trees:
Title: Re: It's not Fracking that Causes Earthquakes
Post by: RW on August 29, 2015, 07:56:39 PM
Post by: RW on August 29, 2015, 07:56:39 PM
Title: Re: It's not Fracking that Causes Earthquakes
Post by: Anonymous on August 29, 2015, 08:03:30 PM
Post by: Anonymous on August 29, 2015, 08:03:30 PM
I don't understand how anyone can think fracking is a good idea.Quote from: "RW"Maybe one of you oil and gas shills can justify this process.
I am hardly a gas and oil shill or shill for anyone or anything..
It seems you may be putting a little too much trust in something you don't understand based on articles that may be inaccurate..
I don't know anything about what fracking is either, but I know not everything I read about it is entirely accurate..
My husband does know a lot about it, and he too says there is so much misinformation about it..
I trust his experience over a CBC
Title: Re: It's not Fracking that Causes Earthquakes
Post by: RW on August 29, 2015, 08:11:51 PM
Post by: RW on August 29, 2015, 08:11:51 PM
I don't understand how anyone can think fracking is a good idea.Quote from: "RW"Maybe one of you oil and gas shills can justify this process.
I am hardly a gas and oil shill or shill for anyone or anything..
It seems you may be putting a little too much trust in something you don't understand based on articles that may be inaccurate..
I don't know anything about what fracking is either, but I know not everything I read about it is entirely accurate..
My husband does know a lot about it, and he too says there is so much misinformation about it..
I trust his experience over a CBCstudy.
It's not a CBC study. It's more than one study being reported by CBC amoung other news agencies. I'm waiting for someone to explain how it's "safe" in the face of all the reports.
You see, oil and gas companies have a reputation for being lying sacks of shit who have had their asses sued many times for poisoning not only the earth but people as well to the point where they've DIED. I'm sorry if I don't believe a fucking word they say!
Title: Re: It's not Fracking that Causes Earthquakes
Post by: Anonymous on August 29, 2015, 08:13:57 PM
Post by: Anonymous on August 29, 2015, 08:13:57 PM
Yes, they are.Quote from: "RW"http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/technology/fracking-causes-earthquakes-studies-confirm-1.1209066
This link is funny and so was the movie Gasland. What fracking or well stimulation is like, is like asking what colour is a smartie. It is so different based on so many factors not the least of which is the formation itself. Not all of them flow high pressure waste water into the ground either. I am on a workover job now and we are land spreading. Frankly. drilling a water well is more dangerous than any different well stimulation method.
Title: Re: It's not Fracking that Causes Earthquakes
Post by: the shark hunter on August 29, 2015, 08:23:15 PM
Post by: the shark hunter on August 29, 2015, 08:23:15 PM
Yes, they are.Quote from: "RW"
... being felt by whom, RW?
Title: Re: It's not Fracking that Causes Earthquakes
Post by: Anonymous on August 29, 2015, 08:55:47 PM
Post by: Anonymous on August 29, 2015, 08:55:47 PM
Yes, they are.Quote from: "RW"
... being felt by whom, RW?
Apparently the CBC in Toronto.
Title: Re: It's not Fracking that Causes Earthquakes
Post by: RW on August 29, 2015, 09:00:51 PM
Post by: RW on August 29, 2015, 09:00:51 PM
Yes, they are.Quote from: "RW"
... being felt by whom, RW?
Apparently the CBC in Toronto.:laugh3:
I'm glad you find this funny because I don't.
Title: Re: It's not Fracking that Causes Earthquakes
Post by: Anonymous on August 29, 2015, 09:07:26 PM
Post by: Anonymous on August 29, 2015, 09:07:26 PM
Yes, they are.Quote from: "RW"
... being felt by whom, RW?
Apparently the CBC in Toronto.:laugh3:
I'm glad you find this funny because I don't.
What else do you want me to say? It's ignorance on a religious level.
Title: Re: It's not Fracking that Causes Earthquakes
Post by: Anonymous on August 29, 2015, 09:41:47 PM
Post by: Anonymous on August 29, 2015, 09:41:47 PM
I don't understand how anyone can think fracking is a good idea.Quote from: "RW"Maybe one of you oil and gas shills can justify this process.
I am hardly a gas and oil shill or shill for anyone or anything..
It seems you may be putting a little too much trust in something you don't understand based on articles that may be inaccurate..
I don't know anything about what fracking is either, but I know not everything I read about it is entirely accurate..
My husband does know a lot about it, and he too says there is so much misinformation about it..
I trust his experience over a CBCstudy.
When someone stoops to calling you a name like shill, it shows they have given up because they do not have enough knowledge about the subject.
I have spent 29 years in the oil and gas racket. I have fracked a lot of wells and I have never harmed water tables or caused an earthquake. Yet, whenever the subject of fracking comes up, if I don't subscribe to what the council of Canadians says about fracking, I must be a greedy shill. Meh, I have a clear conscience and I won't waste my breath on irrationality.
Title: Re: It's not Fracking that Causes Earthquakes
Post by: RW on August 29, 2015, 10:12:49 PM
Post by: RW on August 29, 2015, 10:12:49 PM
Title: Re: It's not Fracking that Causes Earthquakes
Post by: RW on August 30, 2015, 02:28:24 PM
Post by: RW on August 30, 2015, 02:28:24 PM
Title: Re: It's not Fracking that Causes Earthquakes
Post by: RW on August 30, 2015, 03:37:39 PM
Post by: RW on August 30, 2015, 03:37:39 PM
Does the USGS know more than me and the CBC Herman?
Title: Re: It's not Fracking that Causes Earthquakes
Post by: the shark hunter on August 30, 2015, 04:51:07 PM
Post by: the shark hunter on August 30, 2015, 04:51:07 PM
You see, oil and gas companies have a reputation for being lying sacks of shit who have had their asses sued many timesQuote from: "RW"
... no they don't have a reputation for lying, RW. they have a reputation for selling us fuel for our vehicles and that's about it. but the BC government sure has a reputation for lying. that's why we don't ever take their accusations on face value ...
Title: Re: It's not Fracking that Causes Earthquakes
Post by: RW on August 30, 2015, 05:40:22 PM
Post by: RW on August 30, 2015, 05:40:22 PM
You see, oil and gas companies have a reputation for being lying sacks of shit who have had their asses sued many timesQuote from: "RW"
... no they don't have a reputation for lying, RW. they have a reputation for selling us fuel for our vehicles and that's about it. but the BC government sure has a reputation for lying. that's why we don't ever take their accusations on face value ...
You don't keep up on the topic much do you?
There have been some very big class action suits against oil and gas companies in the U.S.
Title: Re: It's not Fracking that Causes Earthquakes
Post by: the shark hunter on August 30, 2015, 05:46:45 PM
Post by: the shark hunter on August 30, 2015, 05:46:45 PM
You see, oil and gas companies have a reputation for being lying sacks of shit who have had their asses sued many timesQuote from: "RW"
... no they don't have a reputation for lying, RW. they have a reputation for selling us fuel for our vehicles and that's about it. but the BC government sure has a reputation for lying. that's why we don't ever take their accusations on face value ...
You don't keep up on the topic much do you?
There have been some very big class action suits against oil and gas companies in the U.S.
... hasn't affected their reputation with the general public up here though ...
Title: Re: It's not Fracking that Causes Earthquakes
Post by: RW on August 30, 2015, 05:52:38 PM
Post by: RW on August 30, 2015, 05:52:38 PM
Title: Re: It's not Fracking that Causes Earthquakes
Post by: cc on August 30, 2015, 06:44:06 PM
Post by: cc on August 30, 2015, 06:44:06 PM
I agree with RW, Herman, there was no need for a second thread about fracking.Quote from: "Fashionista"
He may have not noticed the previous thread, Herman is always very courteous and easy to get along with.
Maybe you guys could combine? and let him know the active link?
PS. I do like the way you guys keep this place tidy and don't allow multiple directly related threads to clutter the place
If I inadvertently offend, move me. I'll gladly take a spanking too
Title: Re: It's not Fracking that Causes Earthquakes
Post by: Anonymous on August 30, 2015, 07:51:13 PM
Post by: Anonymous on August 30, 2015, 07:51:13 PM
You won't explain anything either. I am giving you an opportunity to dispute things like Gasland and earthquakes. I won't hold my breath for an answer on either because select information is the MO of oil and gas companies.Quote from: "RW"
Explain what? It appears you have made up your mind?
What I will tell you is I would like the word fracking to disappear. It's too homogeneous for something where each formation, and each well is different. Something Gasland or the CBC study misleads people about. I am doing a workover right now in the Bakken. We have stimulated tens of thousands of wells in South East Saskatchewan, and injection is the common method to dispose of waste water. Have we had any noticeable earthquakes due to waste water being shot into the ground? Sorry, it hasn't happened. The rock in Saskatchewan doesn't have much natural pressure inside it. We have had minor quakes from industry, but it has been salt dissolution.
Title: Re: It's not Fracking that Causes Earthquakes
Post by: Anonymous on August 30, 2015, 07:54:16 PM
Post by: Anonymous on August 30, 2015, 07:54:16 PM
When how nasty fracking is truly comes to light, I wonder if all these frackers will have a hard time sleeping at night knowing what they've done?Quote from: "RW"
RW, your being irrational about an industry you are ignorant of. There have been something like 250,000 pressurized wells stimulated using some of the various fracking methods. Where is the disaster that I am supposed to have ha hard time sleeping about?
Title: Re: It's not Fracking that Causes Earthquakes
Post by: Anonymous on August 30, 2015, 08:01:28 PM
Post by: Anonymous on August 30, 2015, 08:01:28 PM
Earthquake InfoQuote from: "RW"http://www.techtimes.com/articles/48828/20150426/usgs-confirms-wasterwater-fracking-causes-earthquakes-finally.htm
Does the USGS know more than me and the CBC Herman?
It's my job to know my industry. What you may have missed is this, the report also notes that in some areas, the disposal of toxic wastewater does not lead to similar man-made earthquakes. Experts hope that by studying areas where wastewater fracking has no impact, a way can be found to continue fracking activities without the risk of causing earthquakes.
We work with government regulators,and seismologists. We do not flush waste water down the toilet without knowing the impact.
Title: Re: It's not Fracking that Causes Earthquakes
Post by: RW on August 31, 2015, 12:10:51 AM
Post by: RW on August 31, 2015, 12:10:51 AM
You won't explain anything either. I am giving you an opportunity to dispute things like Gasland and earthquakes. I won't hold my breath for an answer on either because select information is the MO of oil and gas companies.Quote from: "RW"
Explain what? It appears you have made up your mind?
What I will tell you is I would like the word fracking to disappear. It's too homogeneous for something where each formation, and each well is different. Something Gasland or the CBC study misleads people about. I am doing a workover right now in the Bakken. We have stimulated tens of thousands of wells in South East Saskatchewan, and injection is the common method to dispose of waste water. Have we had any noticeable earthquakes due to waste water being shot into the ground? Sorry, it hasn't happened. The rock in Saskatchewan doesn't have much natural pressure inside it. We have had minor quakes from industry, but it has been salt dissolution.
The quakes reported happen to be in Alberta in the CBC report as well as in the U.S.
As a person in the field, are you saying the reports of quakes resulting from a method/methods of gas extraction absolutely inaccurate? Is it unheard of for anyone using this/these extraction processes to experience earth quaking at any point during an operation?
Is it also unheard of or impossible to contaminate water tables with chemicals used in any form of extraction process?
I can see why you want he removal of the word "fracking" because it has negative connotations. Not only that, but it's banned in some countries.
Title: Re: It's not Fracking that Causes Earthquakes
Post by: RW on August 31, 2015, 12:11:58 AM
Post by: RW on August 31, 2015, 12:11:58 AM
When how nasty fracking is truly comes to light, I wonder if all these frackers will have a hard time sleeping at night knowing what they've done?Quote from: "RW"
RW, your being irrational about an industry you are ignorant of. There have been something like 250,000 pressurized wells stimulated using some of the various fracking methods. Where is the disaster that I am supposed to have ha hard time sleeping about?
I'm just adding a twist for dramatic effect ;)
This is a controversial process. Why is that?
Title: Re: It's not Fracking that Causes Earthquakes
Post by: Anonymous on August 31, 2015, 05:24:44 AM
Post by: Anonymous on August 31, 2015, 05:24:44 AM
Earthquake InfoQuote from: "RW"http://www.techtimes.com/articles/48828/20150426/usgs-confirms-wasterwater-fracking-causes-earthquakes-finally.htm
Does the USGS know more than me and the CBC Herman?
It's my job to know my industry. What you may have missed is this, the report also notes that in some areas, the disposal of toxic wastewater does not lead to similar man-made earthquakes. Experts hope that by studying areas where wastewater fracking has no impact, a way can be found to continue fracking activities without the risk of causing earthquakes.
We work with government regulators,and seismologists. We do not flush waste water down the toilet without knowing the impact.
My husband told me that there is a lot of variation between states in the USA Herman..
He also said they will likely make changes around in the area North and West of Whitecourt due to one tremor over 3..
Different underground seismic activity I guess compared to the rest of the province which has hasn't had a similar incident.
Title: Re: It's not Fracking that Causes Earthquakes
Post by: RW on August 31, 2015, 12:05:58 PM
Post by: RW on August 31, 2015, 12:05:58 PM
Earthquake InfoQuote from: "RW"http://www.techtimes.com/articles/48828/20150426/usgs-confirms-wasterwater-fracking-causes-earthquakes-finally.htm
Does the USGS know more than me and the CBC Herman?
It's my job to know my industry. What you may have missed is this, the report also notes that in some areas, the disposal of toxic wastewater does not lead to similar man-made earthquakes. Experts hope that by studying areas where wastewater fracking has no impact, a way can be found to continue fracking activities without the risk of causing earthquakes.
We work with government regulators,and seismologists. We do not flush waste water down the toilet without knowing the impact.
My husband told me that there is a lot of variation between states in the USA Herman..
He also said they will likely make changes around in the area North and West of Whitecourt due to one tremor over 3..
Different underground seismic activity I guess compared to the rest of the province which has hasn't had a similar incident.
Oh so there have been quakes related to fracking in Alberta after all. Fancy that. I'm surprised Herman, who knows his field, didn't get the memo.
Title: Re: It's not Fracking that Causes Earthquakes
Post by: Anonymous on August 31, 2015, 08:05:07 PM
Post by: Anonymous on August 31, 2015, 08:05:07 PM
Earthquake InfoQuote from: "RW"http://www.techtimes.com/articles/48828/20150426/usgs-confirms-wasterwater-fracking-causes-earthquakes-finally.htm
Does the USGS know more than me and the CBC Herman?
It's my job to know my industry. What you may have missed is this, the report also notes that in some areas, the disposal of toxic wastewater does not lead to similar man-made earthquakes. Experts hope that by studying areas where wastewater fracking has no impact, a way can be found to continue fracking activities without the risk of causing earthquakes.
We work with government regulators,and seismologists. We do not flush waste water down the toilet without knowing the impact.
My husband told me that there is a lot of variation between states in the USA Herman..
He also said they will likely make changes around in the area North and West of Whitecourt due to one tremor over 3..
Different underground seismic activity I guess compared to the rest of the province which has hasn't had a similar incident.
Oh so there have been quakes related to fracking in Alberta after all. Fancy that. I'm surprised Herman, who knows his field, didn't get the memo.
There have been a few in the Duvernay formation. None that I have heard of in the Bad Heart, Cadmium, the Bow Island, Nisku or most Alberta formations. Like I said RW, I hate the generalities I read about my business. What you know as fracking is a different action from well to well and more importantly from formation to formation. Sometimes something as simple as removing less brine will keep pressures at safer levels. If there is no way to do that, we can send waste water to different disposal wells like what we did when I worked in Pennsylvania.
Title: Re: It's not Fracking that Causes Earthquakes
Post by: Anonymous on August 31, 2015, 08:15:21 PM
Post by: Anonymous on August 31, 2015, 08:15:21 PM
Title: Re: It's not Fracking that Causes Earthquakes
Post by: RW on August 31, 2015, 08:15:43 PM
Post by: RW on August 31, 2015, 08:15:43 PM
Earthquake InfoQuote from: "RW"http://www.techtimes.com/articles/48828/20150426/usgs-confirms-wasterwater-fracking-causes-earthquakes-finally.htm
Does the USGS know more than me and the CBC Herman?
It's my job to know my industry. What you may have missed is this, the report also notes that in some areas, the disposal of toxic wastewater does not lead to similar man-made earthquakes. Experts hope that by studying areas where wastewater fracking has no impact, a way can be found to continue fracking activities without the risk of causing earthquakes.
We work with government regulators,and seismologists. We do not flush waste water down the toilet without knowing the impact.
My husband told me that there is a lot of variation between states in the USA Herman..
He also said they will likely make changes around in the area North and West of Whitecourt due to one tremor over 3..
Different underground seismic activity I guess compared to the rest of the province which has hasn't had a similar incident.
Oh so there have been quakes related to fracking in Alberta after all. Fancy that. I'm surprised Herman, who knows his field, didn't get the memo.
There have been a few in the Duvernay formation. None that I have heard of in the Bad Heart, Cadmium, the Bow Island, Nisku or most Alberta formations. Like I said RW, I hate the generalities I read about my business. What you know as fracking is a different action from well to well and more importantly from formation to formation. Sometimes something as simple as removing less brine will keep pressures at safer levels. If there is no way to do that, we can send waste water to different disposal wells like what we did when I worked in Pennsylvania.
I've done my reading Herman. I understand there are different processes under the fracking umbrella. I understand why those that work in the field would want to avoid the negative connotations of the word. You can call it what you want. It doesn't change what it is.
What bothers me is how you came into this argument laughing about the CBC article. Both you and Fash basically denied quakes were happening. There is a reported 5.6 quake in the U.S. linked to a fracking process. Does that not raise concerns within your industry?
How about people lighting water on fire? Is that not also seen as a problem?
Title: Re: It's not Fracking that Causes Earthquakes
Post by: RW on August 31, 2015, 08:16:48 PM
Post by: RW on August 31, 2015, 08:16:48 PM
RW, I hope there's no hard feelings with this old roughneck? I am finishing off a multi stage frac job and the pressure in this low price environment is greater than than the sand we are putting down the hole. Fuck ups are inexcusable and I know it's brought out my inner rig pig. It's been a success though and the crew is rigging out. In an hour I will shut down the Pason, empty the wellsite trailer, load the pick up and I will be doing 150 all the way home. Keep my dinner in the oven honey, I'm coming home.Quote from: "Herman":yahoo:
Grata in getting the job done! I like my arguments hard so no worries about being rough :)
Title: Re: It's not Fracking that Causes Earthquakes
Post by: Anonymous on August 31, 2015, 08:27:21 PM
Post by: Anonymous on August 31, 2015, 08:27:21 PM
Earthquake InfoQuote from: "RW"http://www.techtimes.com/articles/48828/20150426/usgs-confirms-wasterwater-fracking-causes-earthquakes-finally.htm
Does the USGS know more than me and the CBC Herman?
It's my job to know my industry. What you may have missed is this, the report also notes that in some areas, the disposal of toxic wastewater does not lead to similar man-made earthquakes. Experts hope that by studying areas where wastewater fracking has no impact, a way can be found to continue fracking activities without the risk of causing earthquakes.
We work with government regulators,and seismologists. We do not flush waste water down the toilet without knowing the impact.
My husband told me that there is a lot of variation between states in the USA Herman..
He also said they will likely make changes around in the area North and West of Whitecourt due to one tremor over 3..
Different underground seismic activity I guess compared to the rest of the province which has hasn't had a similar incident.
Oh so there have been quakes related to fracking in Alberta after all. Fancy that. I'm surprised Herman, who knows his field, didn't get the memo.
There have been a few in the Duvernay formation. None that I have heard of in the Bad Heart, Cadmium, the Bow Island, Nisku or most Alberta formations. Like I said RW, I hate the generalities I read about my business. What you know as fracking is a different action from well to well and more importantly from formation to formation. Sometimes something as simple as removing less brine will keep pressures at safer levels. If there is no way to do that, we can send waste water to different disposal wells like what we did when I worked in Pennsylvania.
I've done my reading Herman. I understand there are different processes under the fracking umbrella. I understand why those that work in the field would want to avoid the negative connotations of the word. You can call it what you want. It doesn't change what it is.
What bothers me is how you came into this argument laughing about the CBC article. Both you and Fash basically denied quakes were happening. There is a reported 5.6 quake in the U.S. linked to a fracking process. Does that not raise concerns within your industry?
How about people lighting water on fire? Is that not also seen as a problem?
I am denying fracking is the culprit. It's disposal. Did you know when I was a young roughneck/motorhand/derrickhand we used to landspread the waste water just like vac trucks on drilling rigs landspread the waste drilling mud? But, that was shallower vertical wells. Some places in North America put it right into water ways. My point being we have made major improvements. We can and will do the same if certain formations are showing seismic reactions to current methods. We want to keep untrapping millions of barrels of oil and billions of feet of natural gas. And naturally we want to do it by minimizing risks.
Title: Re: It's not Fracking that Causes Earthquakes
Post by: Anonymous on September 01, 2015, 05:20:48 AM
Post by: Anonymous on September 01, 2015, 05:20:48 AM
RW, I hope there's no hard feelings with this old roughneck? I am finishing off a multi stage frac job and the pressure in this low price environment is greater than than the sand we are putting down the hole. Fuck ups are inexcusable and I know it's brought out my inner rig pig. It's been a success though and the crew is rigging out. In an hour I will shut down the Pason, empty the wellsite trailer, load the pick up and I will be doing 150 all the way home. Keep my dinner in the oven honey, I'm coming home.Quote from: "Herman":yahoo:
Title: Re: It's not Fracking that Causes Earthquakes
Post by: RW on September 01, 2015, 12:22:18 PM
Post by: RW on September 01, 2015, 12:22:18 PM
Earthquake InfoQuote from: "RW"http://www.techtimes.com/articles/48828/20150426/usgs-confirms-wasterwater-fracking-causes-earthquakes-finally.htm
Does the USGS know more than me and the CBC Herman?
It's my job to know my industry. What you may have missed is this, the report also notes that in some areas, the disposal of toxic wastewater does not lead to similar man-made earthquakes. Experts hope that by studying areas where wastewater fracking has no impact, a way can be found to continue fracking activities without the risk of causing earthquakes.
We work with government regulators,and seismologists. We do not flush waste water down the toilet without knowing the impact.
My husband told me that there is a lot of variation between states in the USA Herman..
He also said they will likely make changes around in the area North and West of Whitecourt due to one tremor over 3..
Different underground seismic activity I guess compared to the rest of the province which has hasn't had a similar incident.
Oh so there have been quakes related to fracking in Alberta after all. Fancy that. I'm surprised Herman, who knows his field, didn't get the memo.
There have been a few in the Duvernay formation. None that I have heard of in the Bad Heart, Cadmium, the Bow Island, Nisku or most Alberta formations. Like I said RW, I hate the generalities I read about my business. What you know as fracking is a different action from well to well and more importantly from formation to formation. Sometimes something as simple as removing less brine will keep pressures at safer levels. If there is no way to do that, we can send waste water to different disposal wells like what we did when I worked in Pennsylvania.
I've done my reading Herman. I understand there are different processes under the fracking umbrella. I understand why those that work in the field would want to avoid the negative connotations of the word. You can call it what you want. It doesn't change what it is.
What bothers me is how you came into this argument laughing about the CBC article. Both you and Fash basically denied quakes were happening. There is a reported 5.6 quake in the U.S. linked to a fracking process. Does that not raise concerns within your industry?
How about people lighting water on fire? Is that not also seen as a problem?
I am denying fracking is the culprit. It's disposal. Did you know when I was a young roughneck/motorhand/derrickhand we used to landspread the waste water just like vac trucks on drilling rigs landspread the waste drilling mud? But, that was shallower vertical wells. Some places in North America put it right into water ways. My point being we have made major improvements. We can and will do the same if certain formations are showing seismic reactions to current methods. We want to keep untrapping millions of barrels of oil and billions of feet of natural gas. And naturally we want to do it by minimizing risks.
So "disposal" is not part of the fracking process?
Title: Re: It's not Fracking that Causes Earthquakes
Post by: Frood on September 01, 2015, 12:31:11 PM
Post by: Frood on September 01, 2015, 12:31:11 PM
Title: Re: It's not Fracking that Causes Earthquakes
Post by: reel on September 01, 2015, 01:17:38 PM
Post by: reel on September 01, 2015, 01:17:38 PM
The sizes of earthquake described are happening continuously, all over the world, with no discernible effect.
Title: Re: It's not Fracking that Causes Earthquakes
Post by: RW on September 01, 2015, 01:31:41 PM
Post by: RW on September 01, 2015, 01:31:41 PM
If fracking is causing minor earthquakes, my question would be - so what?Quote from: "reel"
The sizes of earthquake described are happening continuously, all over the world, with no discernible effect.
So you think man made quakes due to oil and gas extraction will have no foreseeable consequence in the future?
Title: Re: It's not Fracking that Causes Earthquakes
Post by: reel on September 01, 2015, 01:55:36 PM
Post by: reel on September 01, 2015, 01:55:36 PM
If fracking is causing minor earthquakes, my question would be - so what?Quote from: "reel"
The sizes of earthquake described are happening continuously, all over the world, with no discernible effect.
So you think man made quakes due to oil and gas extraction will have no foreseeable consequence in the future?
No, not really. I can't imagine what consequence they would have. The fracking process creates disparate shear stress in the rock that overloads the rock. The earthquake releases the stress. Done. So what?
Title: Re: It's not Fracking that Causes Earthquakes
Post by: RW on September 01, 2015, 02:02:16 PM
Post by: RW on September 01, 2015, 02:02:16 PM
If fracking is causing minor earthquakes, my question would be - so what?Quote from: "reel"
The sizes of earthquake described are happening continuously, all over the world, with no discernible effect.
So you think man made quakes due to oil and gas extraction will have no foreseeable consequence in the future?
No, not really. I can't imagine what consequence they would have. The fracking process creates disparate shear stress in the rock that overloads the rock. The earthquake releases the stress. Done. So what?
Fracking quake magnitudes are rising and being felt far beyond fracking sites. If they get big enough, they could start doing damage. I imagine that's a concern.
That aside, how about folks lighting water on fire? No one seems to want to touch that one.
Title: Re: It's not Fracking that Causes Earthquakes
Post by: reel on September 01, 2015, 02:19:56 PM
Post by: reel on September 01, 2015, 02:19:56 PM
If fracking is causing minor earthquakes, my question would be - so what?Quote from: "reel"
The sizes of earthquake described are happening continuously, all over the world, with no discernible effect.
So you think man made quakes due to oil and gas extraction will have no foreseeable consequence in the future?
No, not really. I can't imagine what consequence they would have. The fracking process creates disparate shear stress in the rock that overloads the rock. The earthquake releases the stress. Done. So what?
Fracking quake magnitudes are rising and being felt far beyond fracking sites. If they get big enough, they could start doing damage. I imagine that's a concern.
That aside, how about folks lighting water on fire? No one seems to want to touch that one.
If they get big enough... 5.6 is big enough to feel some ways off, but it's not big enough to do damage. There is nothing magical about earthquakes. They are a release of pent up energy in the rock. The energy needs to come from somewhere. In nature, this energy is caused by a build up of the massive forces of shifting tectonic plates. A "man-made" earthquake will release once, then stop, based on the amount of potential energy generated by the process, which is finite. It could get bigger if there is more fracking in a particular site, but would never get big enough to be a serious concern unless the localized pressures created by the process increase exponentially in scale, which wouldn't make much sense.
I don't know much about the lighting water on fire thing. I'd heard that the chap in the movie who did that had been doing it for years before the fracking took place in the area, but I don't know if that's true. There are a huge number of places in the world where natural gas release is a natural phenomenon, whereas most fracking occurs much too deep in the earth to affect the water table. I say most because I'm sure there are some that aren't deep enough and as Herman said, every case is different. That doesn't mean that fracking is bad - it means that that particular instance of fracking is bad. But then so, probably, was drilling any sort of well in that area.
Title: Re: It's not Fracking that Causes Earthquakes
Post by: RW on September 01, 2015, 02:27:04 PM
Post by: RW on September 01, 2015, 02:27:04 PM
If fracking is causing minor earthquakes, my question would be - so what?Quote from: "reel"
The sizes of earthquake described are happening continuously, all over the world, with no discernible effect.
So you think man made quakes due to oil and gas extraction will have no foreseeable consequence in the future?
No, not really. I can't imagine what consequence they would have. The fracking process creates disparate shear stress in the rock that overloads the rock. The earthquake releases the stress. Done. So what?
Fracking quake magnitudes are rising and being felt far beyond fracking sites. If they get big enough, they could start doing damage. I imagine that's a concern.
That aside, how about folks lighting water on fire? No one seems to want to touch that one.
If they get big enough... 5.6 is big enough to feel some ways off, but it's not big enough to do damage. There is nothing magical about earthquakes. They are a release of pent up energy in the rock. The energy needs to come from somewhere. In nature, this energy is caused by a build up of the massive forces of shifting tectonic plates. A "man-made" earthquake will release once, then stop, based on the amount of potential energy generated by the process, which is finite. It could get bigger if there is more fracking in a particular site, but would never get big enough to be a serious concern unless the localized pressures created by the process increase exponentially in scale, which wouldn't make much sense.
I don't know much about the lighting water on fire thing. I'd heard that the chap in the movie who did that had been doing it for years before the fracking took place in the area, but I don't know if that's true. There are a huge number of places in the world where natural gas release is a natural phenomenon, whereas most fracking occurs much too deep in the earth to affect the water table. I say most because I'm sure there are some that aren't deep enough and as Herman said, every case is different. That doesn't mean that fracking is bad - it means that that particular instance of fracking is bad. But then so, probably, was drilling any sort of well in that area.
At 5.0 and above, earthquakes can do damage.
Title: Re: It's not Fracking that Causes Earthquakes
Post by: reel on September 01, 2015, 02:32:03 PM
Post by: reel on September 01, 2015, 02:32:03 PM
At 5.0 and above, earthquakes can do damage.
If it occurred at shallow depth directly below a population centre that had poor building codes. Don't frack directly under cities made up of mudbrick huts.
Title: Re: It's not Fracking that Causes Earthquakes
Post by: reel on September 01, 2015, 02:39:02 PM
Post by: reel on September 01, 2015, 02:39:02 PM
Fracking probably can cause issues if done poorly. But that by no means implies that it can't be done safely.
Title: Re: It's not Fracking that Causes Earthquakes
Post by: RW on September 01, 2015, 03:18:57 PM
Post by: RW on September 01, 2015, 03:18:57 PM
This is similar to every human industry. There should be regulations and assessment of the impacts done for each site. Don't build a skyscraper on top of a bog. Don't pump chemical effluent into a river. Don't frack for gas too shallow or in a geological zone that is heavily populated and prone to man-made earthquakes.Quote from: "reel"
Fracking probably can cause issues if done poorly. But that by no means implies that it can't be done safely.
Yes I'm sure it can be done properly but is it being done properly?
Title: Re: It's not Fracking that Causes Earthquakes
Post by: reel on September 01, 2015, 07:38:42 PM
Post by: reel on September 01, 2015, 07:38:42 PM
Like anything else, I'm sure some of it is done properly and some isn't. And of the ones who are doing it wrong, some is probably based on ignorance or incompetence and some is probably based on greed.
But it's not a bad extraction idea. It's quite effective and reasonably low cost.
Title: Re: It's not Fracking that Causes Earthquakes
Post by: RW on September 01, 2015, 07:41:01 PM
Post by: RW on September 01, 2015, 07:41:01 PM
What's the long term cost going to be? Sometimes things that are inexpensive can end up costing you a fortune in the long run.
Title: Re: It's not Fracking that Causes Earthquakes
Post by: reel on September 01, 2015, 07:47:29 PM
Post by: reel on September 01, 2015, 07:47:29 PM
What's the long term cost going to be of what? Of fracking as a resource extraction technique? Pretty minimal. The earthquake thing is a total red herring and in most geological conditions, the water tables wouldn't be affected even if the fracking does occur too close to the surface.
Title: Re: It's not Fracking that Causes Earthquakes
Post by: RW on September 01, 2015, 07:53:06 PM
Post by: RW on September 01, 2015, 07:53:06 PM
Face it. Energy companies are treated with contempt because they repeatedly fail to respect the environment - sometimes with catastrophic consequences. They should be kept on a damn short leash IMHO.
Title: Re: It's not Fracking that Causes Earthquakes
Post by: reel on September 01, 2015, 08:19:07 PM
Post by: reel on September 01, 2015, 08:19:07 PM
There's nothing for me to face. They are people like any others. Most will assume that everything is going to go well until it doesn't. Then they learn from their experiences and try to implement processes to counter this aspect of human nature. It's not like people intentionally create environmental disasters. People make terrible mistakes in every other field out there as well. This one just happens to have bigger consequences. But it is hypocritical to hold them to a higher standard than anyone else or in your case to act as though they are operating to a much lower standard if you don't expect this behaviour from everyone.
Title: Re: It's not Fracking that Causes Earthquakes
Post by: Bricktop on September 02, 2015, 04:30:24 AM
Post by: Bricktop on September 02, 2015, 04:30:24 AM
I don't believe the social and environmental stewardship line for one second. I think MANY do the bare minimum (if that) to meet regulatory markers.Quote from: "RW"
Face it. Energy companies are treated with contempt because they repeatedly fail to respect the environment - sometimes with catastrophic consequences. They should be kept on a damn short leash IMHO.
Would energy companies exist if you did not use their product?
Title: Re: It's not Fracking that Causes Earthquakes
Post by: Anonymous on September 02, 2015, 09:18:49 AM
Post by: Anonymous on September 02, 2015, 09:18:49 AM
If fracking is causing minor earthquakes, my question would be - so what?Quote from: "reel"
The sizes of earthquake described are happening continuously, all over the world, with no discernible effect.
So you think man made quakes due to oil and gas extraction will have no foreseeable consequence in the future?
No, not really. I can't imagine what consequence they would have. The fracking process creates disparate shear stress in the rock that overloads the rock. The earthquake releases the stress. Done. So what?
Fracking quake magnitudes are rising and being felt far beyond fracking sites. If they get big enough, they could start doing damage. I imagine that's a concern.
That aside, how about folks lighting water on fire? No one seems to want to touch that one.
If they get big enough... 5.6 is big enough to feel some ways off, but it's not big enough to do damage. There is nothing magical about earthquakes. They are a release of pent up energy in the rock. The energy needs to come from somewhere. In nature, this energy is caused by a build up of the massive forces of shifting tectonic plates. A "man-made" earthquake will release once, then stop, based on the amount of potential energy generated by the process, which is finite. It could get bigger if there is more fracking in a particular site, but would never get big enough to be a serious concern unless the localized pressures created by the process increase exponentially in scale, which wouldn't make much sense.
I don't know much about the lighting water on fire thing. I'd heard that the chap in the movie who did that had been doing it for years before the fracking took place in the area, but I don't know if that's true. There are a huge number of places in the world where natural gas release is a natural phenomenon, whereas most fracking occurs much too deep in the earth to affect the water table. I say most because I'm sure there are some that aren't deep enough and as Herman said, every case is different. That doesn't mean that fracking is bad - it means that that particular instance of fracking is bad. But then so, probably, was drilling any sort of well in that area.
You sound like my husband reel..
He has said the same thing as you have about seismic activity..
And he has said that lighting water on fire happens when anything is drilled into a methane bed..
Fracking was blamed in Alberta when the culprit was a water well drilled into a methane pocket..
Title: Re: It's not Fracking that Causes Earthquakes
Post by: Anonymous on September 02, 2015, 09:22:38 AM
Post by: Anonymous on September 02, 2015, 09:22:38 AM
Yeah, just some. It's an industry that supplies you with energy. It's not inherently greedy as you seem to suggest. Thousands of people engaged in it try to do the right thing both from a social and an environmental standpoint.Quote from: "reel"
What's the long term cost going to be of what? Of fracking as a resource extraction technique? Pretty minimal. The earthquake thing is a total red herring and in most geological conditions, the water tables wouldn't be affected even if the fracking does occur too close to the surface.
Everyone not only tries, but must comply with safety..
I don't get the greed accusation either, it's for the common good.
Title: Re: It's not Fracking that Causes Earthquakes
Post by: RW on September 02, 2015, 12:00:50 PM
Post by: RW on September 02, 2015, 12:00:50 PM
I don't believe the social and environmental stewardship line for one second. I think MANY do the bare minimum (if that) to meet regulatory markers.Quote from: "RW"
Face it. Energy companies are treated with contempt because they repeatedly fail to respect the environment - sometimes with catastrophic consequences. They should be kept on a damn short leash IMHO.
Would energy companies exist if you did not use their product?
We need oil and gas at this point in time. I accept that.
Title: Re: It's not Fracking that Causes Earthquakes
Post by: RW on September 02, 2015, 12:04:17 PM
Post by: RW on September 02, 2015, 12:04:17 PM
Yeah, just some. It's an industry that supplies you with energy. It's not inherently greedy as you seem to suggest. Thousands of people engaged in it try to do the right thing both from a social and an environmental standpoint.Quote from: "reel"
What's the long term cost going to be of what? Of fracking as a resource extraction technique? Pretty minimal. The earthquake thing is a total red herring and in most geological conditions, the water tables wouldn't be affected even if the fracking does occur too close to the surface.
Everyone not only tries, but must comply with safety..
I don't get the greed accusation either, it's for the common good.
Accusation? You think oil and gas companies extract oil and gas for the greater good? No. They do it to make money.
Title: Re: It's not Fracking that Causes Earthquakes
Post by: Anonymous on September 02, 2015, 04:54:32 PM
Post by: Anonymous on September 02, 2015, 04:54:32 PM
Does fracking cause flaming water faucets?
This is a well-traveled mythology, so let's take a closer look. First, naturally occurring methane has been well documented all across the country – and for many years prior to drilling.
In Michigan, naturally occurring methane was documented in the 1960s, and in Pennsylvania in the 1980s – decades before hydraulic fracturing and shale development came to those states. Two U.S. Geological Survey studies found lots of methane in Pennsylvania and New York water wells prior to any drilling. Another peer-reviewed study examining 1,700 Pennsylvania water wells in both natural gas-producing and non-gas producing areas determined that "methane is ubiquitous in groundwater" in the region.
There have been efforts to debunk the fracking/flaming faucet myth. The documentary "Truthland" highlights an upstate New York resident setting his water on fire – while pointing out that the state had a fracking moratorium for years. Another documentary, "FrackNation," features three U.S. towns called "Burning Springs," because residents can ignite their water on fire. All got their names long before "fracking" ever became a household word. One of these is in the Niagara Falls, N.Y., region, where one visitor, D.W. Clark, observed in 1845:
"Arrived at the Spring, the attendant closed the door of the house to exclude the light, and then we were treated to a very fine illumination from the burning of the inflammable gas, which rises to the surface with a slight cracking noise, and readily becomes ignited by a lighted match being placed in it. The faces of those standing near looked like the 'weird sisters' of Macbeth around the cauldron of Hecate..."
A pair of anti-hydraulic fracturing films depict landowners lighting their water, but it was determined the methane in those cases had nothing to do with fracking. One involved a Colorado case in which investigating state regulators determined the methane was "not related to oil and gas activity," but to the landowner drilling his water well through several natural gas-bearing rock zones.
Another showed a Parker County, Texas, landowner lighting the end of his garden hose. But a state investigation determined that the landowner had hooked up his hose to a gas vent, not a water line. A state district judge later ruled this created a "deceptive video" intended to scare other residents and to attract the EPA's attention. Texas regulators looked into the case and found that the methane "signature" indicated it came from a shallower zone into which several water wells had been drilled – not from the Barnett Shale from which companies have been producing natural gas.